Advice for a New Pilot?

[Ryan Spicer]

Hi all,
I've seen a lot of interesting discussion on this group re:
improving skills and safety, so I thought I'd ask this here: I'm
currently training for my private pilot glider ticket, starting from
zero. I have about 12hrs in my logbook over 43 flights, about a third
of which are solo. I did initial training in a 2-33 and my instructor
recently checked me out in the 1-26, which I'm loving. I have a great
instructor, insofar as I'm capable of judging such things, and I'm not
worried about passing the practical, but here's the question:

Beyond reading the Knauff books and seeking continuing instruction,
what recommendations does the group have for continuing to improve
skills and be better, safer pilot after I pass the practical? I'm
almost certainly going to continue training, start learning what I
need to know to fly XC, and work on the SSA badges. I've seen what
looks like some good advice in some recent threads, and I'm certainly
looking for more. I know my CFIG is the first and best point of
contact for all these things, but I'm always in favor of getting more
information when possible. So what are the things you wish you'd
known at this point in your soaring career?

Also, I've searched for the Knauff books on Amazon, and they appear to
be out of print. Is this correct? If so, is my best bet to purchase
them through Amazon used, or are there other vendors that are
preferred?

[Ed Winchester]

Ryan,

Why not buy them from Knauff himself and provide support to him instead
of a bunch of middlemen? http://www.eglider.org/

Of course, there are some very good middlemen on here, such as Paul
Remde at http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/, or Tim Mara at
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/
I'd bet that either of those have them all, as well.

Good luck,
Ed
Ryan Spicer wrote:
> Hi all,
> I've seen a lot of interesting discussion on this group re:
> improving skills and safety, so I thought I'd ask this here: I'm
> currently training for my private pilot glider ticket, starting from
> zero. I have about 12hrs in my logbook over 43 flights, about a third
> of which are solo. I did initial training in a 2-33 and my instructor
> recently checked me out in the 1-26, which I'm loving. I have a great
> instructor, insofar as I'm capable of judging such things, and I'm not
> worried about passing the practical, but here's the question:
>
> Beyond reading the Knauff books and seeking continuing instruction,
> what recommendations does the group have for continuing to improve
> skills and be better, safer pilot after I pass the practical? I'm
> almost certainly going to continue training, start learning what I
> need to know to fly XC, and work on the SSA badges. I've seen what
> looks like some good advice in some recent threads, and I'm certainly
> looking for more. I know my CFIG is the first and best point of
> contact for all these things, but I'm always in favor of getting more
> information when possible. So what are the things you wish you'd
> known at this point in your soaring career?
>
> Also, I've searched for the Knauff books on Amazon, and they appear to
> be out of print. Is this correct? If so, is my best bet to purchase
> them through Amazon used, or are there other vendors that are
> preferred?
>

[Adam]

On Jun 30, 11:52*am, Ryan Spicer > wrote:
> Hi all,
snip
>
> Beyond reading the Knauff books and seeking continuing instruction,
> what recommendations does the group have for continuing to improve
> skills and be better, safer pilot after I pass the practical?

snip

My advice is to fly often (weekly) so you remain not only current, but
proficient. Sorry if it sounds too logical but it works for me.

/Adam

[noel.wade]

Ryan -

Along with what the others have said (flying regularly and buying
Knauff's books), I encourage you to check out different authors and
different sources of gliding knowledge. There are many books by good
authors (inlcuding Reichmann, Wander, and others) that are excellent,
and its always good to get different perspectives on flying
technique.

Hanging out around glider operations (even if you aren't flying) is a
good idea. Wing-run and check out various takeoff techniques. Note
what seems to work and what things tend to get people in trouble.
Hang out with the pilots in your club that go cross-country. They'll
have lots of experience, and even if they aren't good teachers you
will learn some things just by osmosis. Never stop asking questions,
and never stop trying to think ahead to "what can I work on, to get
better today?"

Take care,

--Noel

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jun 30, 9:52*am, Ryan Spicer > wrote:
> Hi all,
> * I've seen a lot of interesting discussion on this group re:
> improving skills and safety, so I thought I'd ask this here: I'm
> currently training for my private pilot glider ticket, starting from
> zero. *I have about 12hrs in my logbook over 43 flights, about a third
> of which are solo. I did initial training in a 2-33 and my instructor
> recently checked me out in the 1-26, which I'm loving. *I have a great
> instructor, insofar as I'm capable of judging such things, and I'm not
> worried about passing the practical, but here's the question:
>
> Beyond reading the Knauff books and seeking continuing instruction,
> what recommendations does the group have for continuing to improve
> skills and be better, safer pilot after I pass the practical? I'm
> almost certainly going to continue training, *start learning what I
> need to know to fly XC, and work on the SSA badges. I've seen what
> looks like some good advice in some recent threads, and I'm certainly
> looking for more. I know my CFIG is the first and best point of
> contact for all these things, but I'm always in favor of getting more
> information when possible. *So what are the things you wish you'd
> known at this point in your soaring career?
>
> Also, I've searched for the Knauff books on Amazon, and they appear to
> be out of print. Is this correct? If so, is my best bet to purchase
> them through Amazon used, or are there other vendors that are
> preferred?

Find a XC mentor or maybe two, this may not be your CFIG. If you are
in a club your club may have a mentoring/XC training program. Look
around the club/operation where you fly and look for people who fly
cross country and do what you are interested in, ask people who've
started doing this in the last few years and find out who mentored
them. You CFIG should also be able to recommend folks to consider. I
would try to start with the best XC pilots available locally and see
if they have the inclination/interest/teaching skills to mentor.
Sanity check candidates with other pilots to see if they are
considered a safe pilot and good mentor.

See what books (and later on things like flight analysis software,
GPS, loggers, etc.) they recommend. There is a lot out there and
depends on what you want to cover. If you have a technical background
I'd recommend Reichman's Cross Country Soaring, meteorology seems to
be often underlooked, things like Bradbury A Pilot's Guide to Weather
and several other weather books are good reading. Don't sweat too much
on the study part, use a mentor to help you balance what you should
study. Your biggest job right now is to get your license, but I know
thinking about XC soaring may help motivate you.

Ideally try to arrange some dual XC flights with the mentor/CFIG in a
two place XC ship as well as doing some initial buddy XC flying/
mentoring in (hopefully similar performance) single place ships - this
initially should not just be following somebody else along but you and
the mentor should have prepared together, discussed planning etc. (the
mentor should be willing to land out with you if needed), etc. SSA and
FAI badges give you some steps to aim at/structure and I think are a
good thing. Make life as easy as possible for any mentor, be prepared/
organized, pay for dual rentals/tow, buy them lots of beers, etc. The
main thing is to get in with a bunch of folks who fly XC and are
willing to help you learn.

Darryl

[nate_fl]

Is there a regional contest held near you? Several of the X-C gurus
will offer to fly dual with you for a modest donation to the U.S.
soaring team. I did this at the Seniors last march and learned an
awful lot about soaring in two hours, mostly watching from the back
seat.

I'd also like to echo whoever said to "fly regularly". Almost
immediately after earning my PPG I began working on a power ticket.
Totally different type of flying. I went back to refresh a couple of
weeks ago- you'll be surprised how quickly your skills deteriorate.
Flying is indeed a perishable skill.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Jun 30, 12:47*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> Ryan -
>
> Along with what the others have said (flying regularly and buying
> Knauff's books), I encourage you to check out different authors and
> different sources of gliding knowledge. *There are many books by good
> authors (inlcuding Reichmann, Wander, and others) that are excellent,
> and its always good to get different perspectives on flying
> technique.
>
> Hanging out around glider operations (even if you aren't flying) is a
> good idea. *Wing-run and check out various takeoff techniques. *Note
> what seems to work and what things tend to get people in trouble.
> Hang out with the pilots in your club that go cross-country. *They'll
> have lots of experience, and even if they aren't good teachers you
> will learn some things just by osmosis. *Never stop asking questions,
> and never stop trying to think ahead to "what can I work on, to get
> better today?"
>
> Take care,
>
> --Noel

Hang out and watch and assess downwind, base, final, and landings. It
never gets old and is the second most important part of flying XC.

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

At 19:29 30 June 2008, Frank Whiteley wrote:
>On Jun 30, 12:47=A0pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
>> Ryan -
>>
>> Along with what the others have said (flying regularly and buying
>> Knauff's books), I encourage you to check out different authors and
>> different sources of gliding knowledge. =A0There are many books by
good
>> authors (inlcuding Reichmann, Wander, and others) that are excellent,
>> and its always good to get different perspectives on flying
>> technique.
>>
>> Hanging out around glider operations (even if you aren't flying) is a
>> good idea. =A0Wing-run and check out various takeoff techniques.
=A0Note
>> what seems to work and what things tend to get people in trouble.
>> Hang out with the pilots in your club that go cross-country.
=A0They'll
>> have lots of experience, and even if they aren't good teachers you
>> will learn some things just by osmosis. =A0Never stop asking
questions,
>> and never stop trying to think ahead to "what can I work on, to get
>> better today?"
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> --Noel
>
>Hang out and watch and assess downwind, base, final, and landings. It
>never gets old and is the second most important part of flying XC.

Might even be the first; this is the part you have to get right.

[Brian Bange[_2_]]

At 16:52 30 June 2008, Ryan Spicer wrote:
>Hi all,
> I've seen a lot of interesting discussion on this group re:
>improving skills and safety, so I thought I'd ask this here:
>Beyond reading the Knauff books and seeking continuing instruction, what
recommendations does the group have for continuing to improve
>skills and be better, safer pilot after I pass the practical?

1. Every time you fly, try to spot fields that you think are landable.
When you drive home, drive by and evaluate your choices. After a while it
becomes second nature and you'll find yourself analyzing fields
everywhere you drive.

2. Realize that on any flight, you might not be able to make it back to
the home field. Rain, gust fronts, altitude etc. can make a landout a
necessity. Sometimes it is better to accept a landout than to try and
stretch it back to the field or land IFR in rain. This becomes no big deal
if you practice #1 every time you fly.

3. Realize that things can happen that scare the $hit out of you when you
are new to flying. Turning base and coming head on to a tow plane, not
seeing that other glider on down wind until you are way too close, looking
back at the field and having it obscured by a rain shower, going out a few
miles and not being able to find the field ... and so many others all
qualify. Sometimes this will cause what is called adrenaline dump. Your
mind becomes numb, you get tunnel vision and you feel paralized. Breath in
and out slowly on the count of 4. This will clear the head. If you find
yourself scared, do the breathing and get that mind working. As long as
you can think, you can work your way back out of any of these situations.

Brian

[Hellman]

On Jun 30, 9:52*am, Ryan Spicer > wrote:
> Beyond reading the Knauff books and seeking continuing instruction,
> what recommendations does the group have for continuing to improve
> skills and be better, safer pilot after I pass the practical?

I have four safety related articles on my web site at

http://www-ee.stanford.edu/~hellman/soaring/safety.html

As noted in the last of them, be particularly careful in imitating
more experienced pilots' exploits such as outlandings, close-in ridge
soaring, and low passes. Depending on your threshold for risk (we all
take some risk or we wouldn't soar!), these can be done with
acceptable risk. But I've heard some experienced pilots talk of (or
demonstrate) these maneuvers without adequately mentioning the risk
and that they shouldn't be performed by newer pilots without proper
training and experience.

And, even experience pilots can get killed doing them. I've received
two requests to reprint that article from clubs which lost experienced
pilots in the kinds of situations discussed there.

Another good source of information is the NTSB accident database

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

Search on gliders and fatal accidents. Not that getting paralyzed is
to be sneezed at, but the fatal accidents will really get your
attention.

Hoping this helps, and welcome to soaring!

Martin

[Matt Herron Jr.]

Sign up for XC and/or thermalling camps. You will come away a
completely different pilot. I highly recommend the Air Sailing XC
camp. Friendly, nurturing, lots of well thought out information in a
huge binder you take away with you, experienced pilots to fly with,
and some of the best soaring in the country.

Matt

[[email protected]]

Ryan:

The nice thing about soaring is that it's always new -- the challenge
never leaves it. I've got a letter to the editor coming out in
Soaring in a couple months that tries to make that point.

But the thing about soaring that will bite you is that there's always
something out there that you haven't seen or experienced before. For
that reason I recommend you fly with different CFIGs, different clubs,
and different commercial operations. There's value added from all
those experiences.

This note is a flat-out commercial for our operation -- SoaringNV, in
Minden, Nevada. Our business model is to offer cross country training
in very modern equipment with very experienced instructors. We use
the Duo Discus, and we fly in one of the world's very best soaring
locations. If you're close enough to visit, I'm confident you'd find
it worthwhile to fly with us. Do book well in advance, though -- our
calendar for the rest of the summer is looking pretty busy.

And if you can't make it to Minden, look for advanced training closer
to home. You'll find it a valuable experience.

Fred LaSor
SoaringNV
Minden, NV



Ryan Spicer wrote:
> Hi all,
> I've seen a lot of interesting discussion on this group re:
> improving skills and safety, so I thought I'd ask this here: I'm
> currently training for my private pilot glider ticket, starting from
> zero. I have about 12hrs in my logbook over 43 flights, about a third
> of which are solo. I did initial training in a 2-33 and my instructor
> recently checked me out in the 1-26, which I'm loving. I have a great
> instructor, insofar as I'm capable of judging such things, and I'm not
> worried about passing the practical, but here's the question:
>
> Beyond reading the Knauff books and seeking continuing instruction,
> what recommendations does the group have for continuing to improve
> skills and be better, safer pilot after I pass the practical? I'm
> almost certainly going to continue training, start learning what I
> need to know to fly XC, and work on the SSA badges. I've seen what
> looks like some good advice in some recent threads, and I'm certainly
> looking for more. I know my CFIG is the first and best point of
> contact for all these things, but I'm always in favor of getting more
> information when possible. So what are the things you wish you'd
> known at this point in your soaring career?
>
> Also, I've searched for the Knauff books on Amazon, and they appear to
> be out of print. Is this correct? If so, is my best bet to purchase
> them through Amazon used, or are there other vendors that are
> preferred?

[[email protected]]

On Jun 30, 9:52*am, Ryan Spicer > wrote:
> Hi all,
> * I've seen a lot of interesting discussion on this group re:
> improving skills and safety, so I thought I'd ask this here: I'm
> currently training for my private pilot glider ticket, starting from
> zero. *I have about 12hrs in my logbook over 43 flights, about a third
> of which are solo. I did initial training in a 2-33 and my instructor
> recently checked me out in the 1-26, which I'm loving. *I have a great
> instructor, insofar as I'm capable of judging such things, and I'm not
> worried about passing the practical, but here's the question:
>
> Beyond reading the Knauff books and seeking continuing instruction,
> what recommendations does the group have for continuing to improve
> skills and be better, safer pilot after I pass the practical? I'm
> almost certainly going to continue training, *start learning what I
> need to know to fly XC, and work on the SSA badges. I've seen what
> looks like some good advice in some recent threads, and I'm certainly
> looking for more. I know my CFIG is the first and best point of
> contact for all these things, but I'm always in favor of getting more
> information when possible. *So what are the things you wish you'd
> known at this point in your soaring career?
>
> Also, I've searched for the Knauff books on Amazon, and they appear to
> be out of print. Is this correct? If so, is my best bet to purchase
> them through Amazon used, or are there other vendors that are
> preferred?

Contrary to much of the advice proferred here, I think you need to
concentrate on local flights and build up your skill levels before
attempting any XC flights. Flying XC assumes that you ALREADY have the
fundamental soaring skills down pat, and can devote a large part of
your attention on things flight planning, weather prediction, route
planning, landout monitoring, etc.

Look at it this way: you will not be punished for being over-prepared
prior to XC flight, but you sure as hell will be if you are under-
prepared.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jun 30, 9:55*pm, wrote:
> On Jun 30, 9:52*am, Ryan Spicer > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
> > * I've seen a lot of interesting discussion on this group re:
> > improving skills and safety, so I thought I'd ask this here: I'm
> > currently training for my private pilot glider ticket, starting from
> > zero. *I have about 12hrs in my logbook over 43 flights, about a third
> > of which are solo. I did initial training in a 2-33 and my instructor
> > recently checked me out in the 1-26, which I'm loving. *I have a great
> > instructor, insofar as I'm capable of judging such things, and I'm not
> > worried about passing the practical, but here's the question:
>
> > Beyond reading the Knauff books and seeking continuing instruction,
> > what recommendations does the group have for continuing to improve
> > skills and be better, safer pilot after I pass the practical? I'm
> > almost certainly going to continue training, *start learning what I
> > need to know to fly XC, and work on the SSA badges. I've seen what
> > looks like some good advice in some recent threads, and I'm certainly
> > looking for more. I know my CFIG is the first and best point of
> > contact for all these things, but I'm always in favor of getting more
> > information when possible. *So what are the things you wish you'd
> > known at this point in your soaring career?
>
> > Also, I've searched for the Knauff books on Amazon, and they appear to
> > be out of print. Is this correct? If so, is my best bet to purchase
> > them through Amazon used, or are there other vendors that are
> > preferred?
>
> Contrary to much of the advice proferred here, I think you need to
> concentrate on local flights and build up your skill levels before
> attempting any XC flights. Flying XC assumes that you ALREADY have the
> fundamental soaring skills down pat, and can devote a large part of
> your attention on things flight planning, weather prediction, route
> planning, landout monitoring, etc.
>
> Look at it this way: you will not be punished for being over-prepared
> prior to XC flight, but you sure as hell will be if you are under-
> prepared.

The way to avoid those issues is to fly dual with an experienced XC
pilot in a nice XC ship that can show you what can be done, and clue
you into some of the basics of XC flight but more importantly show you
what the big picture looks like and whether this is really likely to
interest you/be worth all the effort. Especially if you already have
strong interest in XC flight I'd talk to your CFIG and other local
pilots and see if there are opportunities for some dual XC flying.
This will give you a good perspective and keep your interest high.
While book reading, study, talking to folk is useful flying XC dual
lets you see the real thing. BTW if you can't find this locally then,
like Fred LaSor says look around and try to find somewhere/somebody
that can help you with this. Of course balance doing things like this
with advice from your CFIG on things you need to focus on.

BTW I've had some fun dual flights with low time/non-XC pilots. But
one of my favorite was a bit different, was with an internationally
ranked paraglider pilot who had never flown in a sailplane. A 460km
O&R along the Sierras opened his eyes to what a sailplane can do.
Greg could not wipe the smile off his face.
http://blog.gregbabush.com/2006/09/truckee-mammoth-truckee-462-km.html

Darryl

[Cats]

On Jul 1, 5:55*am, wrote:
<snip>
>
> Contrary to much of the advice proferred here, I think you need to
> concentrate on local flights and build up your skill levels before
> attempting any XC flights. Flying XC assumes that you ALREADY have the
> fundamental soaring skills down pat, and can devote a large part of
> your attention on things flight planning, weather prediction, route
> planning, landout monitoring, etc.

I'm not sure what the state of play in the US is, but at my club and I
suspect all others in the UK, we have to have our Bronze badge plus XC
endorsement before flying other than locally (e.g. attempting Silver
distance). Of course an outlanding is still a possibility but they
don't happen often and there is a body of knowledge about where the
best fields are (given the state of the crops) which can and should be
tapped.

[Martin Gregorie[_3_]]

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 13:42:38 -0700, Cats wrote:

> I'm not sure what the state of play in the US is, but at my club and I
> suspect all others in the UK, we have to have our Bronze badge plus XC
> endorsement before flying other than locally (e.g. attempting Silver
> distance).
>
That's certainly true in my club. Usually a newly minted Bronze XC
Endorsed pilot would attempt Silver distance as their first XC on
a day okayed by an instructor and after a thorough briefing.

Once that's accomplished the next target is the 100 km diploma - again
only after its been sanctioned by an instructor.

It seems to work for us - unless the day suddenly turns to worms most
pilots get Silver on their first attempt. Before you ask, we're
scrupulous about not permitting lead & follow or similar cheating
for these flights and we much prefer Silver distance to be flown in a
Junior rather than anything with better performance. New XC pilots may not
get the speed leg of the 100 km diploma on their first attempt but they're
likely to complete the task.

> Of course an outlanding is still a possibility but they
> don't happen often and there is a body of knowledge about where the best
> fields are (given the state of the crops) which can and should be tapped.
>
Those without the XC Endorsement are expected to avoid landing out. If
they get it wrong and end up aux vaches there would likely be a discussion
with an instructor about deficient judgment.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org | Zappa fan & glider pilot

[Cats]

On Jul 2, 10:45*pm, Martin Gregorie
> wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 13:42:38 -0700, Cats wrote:
> > I'm not sure what the state of play in the US is, but at my club and I
> > suspect all others in the UK, we have to have our Bronze badge plus XC
> > endorsement before flying other than locally (e.g. attempting Silver
> > distance).
>
> That's certainly true in my club. Usually a newly minted Bronze XC
> Endorsed pilot would attempt Silver distance as their first XC on
> a day okayed by an instructor and after a thorough briefing.
>
> Once that's accomplished the next target is the 100 km diploma - again
> only after its been sanctioned by an instructor.
>
> It seems to work for us - unless the day suddenly turns to worms most
> pilots get Silver on their first attempt.

I guess we get a lot of worms north of the border! Some of the Silver
Distance flights are downwind dashes from wave rather than a thermal
XC, but I'm not sure of the ratio. Naturally most of the good days
(wave & thermal) are during the week so us younger (e.g. working)
pilots can have to wait for quite some time for getting a decent day
at the weekend.


> Before you ask, we're
> scrupulous about not permitting lead & follow or similar cheating
> for these flights and we much prefer Silver distance to be flown in a
> Junior rather than anything with better performance. New XC pilots may not
> get the speed leg of the 100 km diploma on their first attempt but they're
> likely to complete the task.

Of the last few Silver Distance flights I know of some but not all
have been in the Juniors.


> > Of course an outlanding is still a possibility but they
> > don't happen often and there is a body of knowledge about where the best
> > fields are (given the state of the crops) which can and should be tapped.
>
> Those without the XC Endorsement are expected to avoid landing out. If
> they get it wrong and end up aux vaches there would likely be a discussion
> with an instructor about deficient judgment.

True, but it has happened (and will continue to happen), and the
people it has happened that I know of to are still flying. None of
them broke anything in the cases I know about, and I suspect they were
all learning experiences.

[Martin Gregorie[_3_]]

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:11:23 -0700, Cats wrote:

> I guess we get a lot of worms north of the border!
>
Tell me about it! Same for us the last two years.

> Some of the Silver Distance flights are downwind dashes from wave rather
> than a thermal XC, but I'm not sure of the ratio.
>
What I said applies solely to the way things work where I fly, which is a
flatland club. I'm not remotely intending what I said to be taken as
generalisation and realise that it often doesn't work that way when you're
not situated in the midst of flat, fairly landable country with suitable
glider fields or airfields 50-70 km away.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org | Zappa fan & glider pilot