Changes to USA Nationals System

[Tim Taylor]

It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. With time
constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
outdated. We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
nationals. I think it is time to seriously look at these
alternatives. We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
miles (6000 km) across. Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
prohibitive.

This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. I will throw
out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.

1. Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. The
points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
winner. We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
contest. These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
Region 11 this year.

2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners.
This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall.
This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. Super regionals would
be by seeding list similar to the nationals. Again the seven day
contest would work well for the Super Regionals.


I think we need to address the class creep issue as well soon. We
have too many classes, it is time to eliminate some classes. I vote
to kill World class and strongly consider the end of Open class and
1-26. That would put us down to four classes; Std, 15M, 18M and
Sports 9 (Club).

[DP]

On Jun 30, 12:26*pm, Tim Taylor > wrote:
> It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. *With time
> constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
> outdated. *We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
> nationals. *I think it is time to seriously look at these
> alternatives. *We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
> miles (6000 km) across. *Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
> prohibitive.
>
> This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. *I will throw
> out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.
>
> 1. *Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. *The
> points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
> winner. *We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
> it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
> contest. *These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
> Region 11 this year.
>
> 2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners.
> This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
> higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall.
> This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
> pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. *Super regionals would
> be by seeding list similar to the nationals. *Again the seven day
> contest would work well for the Super Regionals.
>
> I think we need to address the class creep issue as well soon. *We
> have too many classes, it is time to eliminate some classes. *I vote
> to kill World class and strongly consider the end of Open class and
> 1-26. *That would put us down to four classes; Std, 15M, 18M and
> Sports 9 (Club).

I'm not a competition pilot, but am a former 1-26r and have competed
in regional 1-26 meets. Why would you want to eliminate the 1-26 as a
class? It's pretty much it's own group that does their own thing..and
has a great time in the process.

[Tim Taylor]

On Jun 30, 1:21 pm, DP > wrote:
> On Jun 30, 12:26 pm, Tim Taylor > wrote:
>
>
>
> > It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. With time
> > constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
> > outdated. We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
> > nationals. I think it is time to seriously look at these
> > alternatives. We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
> > miles (6000 km) across. Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
> > prohibitive.
>
> > This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. I will throw
> > out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.
>
> > 1. Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. The
> > points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
> > winner. We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
> > it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
> > contest. These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
> > Region 11 this year.
>
> > 2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners.
> > This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
> > higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall.
> > This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
> > pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. Super regionals would
> > be by seeding list similar to the nationals. Again the seven day
> > contest would work well for the Super Regionals.
>
> > I think we need to address the class creep issue as well soon. We
> > have too many classes, it is time to eliminate some classes. I vote
> > to kill World class and strongly consider the end of Open class and
> > 1-26. That would put us down to four classes; Std, 15M, 18M and
> > Sports 9 (Club).
>
> I'm not a competition pilot, but am a former 1-26r and have competed
> in regional 1-26 meets. Why would you want to eliminate the 1-26 as a
> class? It's pretty much it's own group that does their own thing..and
> has a great time in the process.

My logic was that classes that can't get more than 20 planes at a
nationals should be eliminated (Open and World). Second the 1-26 is
only supported in the US, if the 1-26 Association wants to continue to
support it fine, but it should be handled by the 1-26 association and
not with the rest of the FAI classes.

It is hard to make cuts, but we have gotten too many classes and need
to focus on creating a racing environment in the US that gets more
pilots involved rather than fragmenting the pilots and discouraging
pilots from racing by having long distances to nationals and small
regionals.

[[email protected]]

I agree that we may have to reevaluate contests in the US to keep
interest up with rising costs. If you’re hauling a trailer with a
small SUV halfway across the country and back the fuel cost can be
over $1000 now plus lodging, food, entry fee and rising tow costs.
Shorter national contests closer to home would be less expensive and
may bring in fresh competitors and enhance competition.

The thing to remember is that the purpose of a national contest is to
choose national champions and US Team members for future world
competitions. We have to look at how this will change the selection
policy. If it’s easier to get a good ranking flying in California then
they’ll be at an advantage versus pilots in Pennsylvania where you
have to struggle around a task more often. How will that be dealt
with?

One way would be to have a location handicap similar to the Hilton
Cup. Another would be to just have a voting system for the teams
similar to what the British team has.

I’m not sure if I agree with eliminating any classes. First 1-26 is on
their own and have a “Championship”. They’ll get very mad if you try
to take their contest away. They actually have a high turn out too.
This year they have around 22 on the list – about the same number as
Standard Class and 18 Meter had this year.

World Class has an equally dedicated following but a bit smaller. The
advantage I see and the reason I’ll be flying my third World Class
National this summer is cost. They’ve been very helpful to junior
pilots in finding gliders and helping defray costs. They’ve combined
many of their contests with other groups to enlarge the total number.
I’m sure this will continue in the future.

Open Class is just cool and shows what’s possible with technology when
you can do anything with the design. Again they have small numbers now
but have been combining their contests with others.

[Kevin Anderson]

Tim,

Obviously you do not fly a 1-26, World Class bird, or a open class bird.
There are different birds for different taste and wallets.

The 1-26 Championships (Technically the North American 1-26 Championships)
is sponsored by the 1-26 Association, www.126association.org
and is the original one design competition.. It has been held yearly since
1965.
This year will make the 43rd contest. We have 21 1-26's competing with 24
pilots,
3 are flying team. Last year we had 27 1-26's with 6 teams. Last year we
were joined by the
World Class, and they were such a good fit with our group that they are with
us
again this year, with plans also to be together next year.

The requirements for entering are not as stringent as some of the other
national contest, but the competition is great and the group of people is
even better. Some have been flying the same 1-26 for over 40 years, while
some are relatively new pilots. New pilots are mentored and brought along.
I went to my first 1-26 Champs in 2001 and have not looked back.

Some 1-26 pilots also fly other gilders, including advanced glass birds.
This is a
great source of completion, and some of the US National Champions have
competed in the Championships in the past.

The 1-26 has a loyal following and is a GREAT WAY for someone to get started
in cross-country soaring, competition, and records. The cost of a 1-26 is
about what
a fiberglass trailer cost these days. Would you rather have the glider and
trailer of your
own, or just fly club ships until some date in the future where the time and
money all finally
come together so you could fly high performance. For some it will never
happen.

The Association keeps regional as well as national records and has a
Cross-country
Sweepstakes that goes back to 1969. (This predates OCL by quite a few
years.)

39 pilots have accomplished all of their Diamonds in the 1-26, with quite a
few 500K
flights in the little bird.

The 1-26 Championships was the first place in the US to use GPS during
competition. Trying going to a competition anywhere without one now.

So, we are not going away, and we even invite you to buy or borrow a 1-26
and come out and fly with us. This year the Championships are at TSA in
three weeks.

Please see the 1-26 Association web site and join the group. Membership is
$15
a year and includes a copy of the LOG which is the history of the
Association
along with records and accomplishments that have been achieved over the
years.

Kevin R. Anderson
President 1-26 Association
Double Diamond 1-26 Pilot
SGS 1-26B 192





"Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
...
> It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. With time
> constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
> outdated. We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
> nationals. I think it is time to seriously look at these
> alternatives. We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
> miles (6000 km) across. Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
> prohibitive.
>
> This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. I will throw
> out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.
>
> 1. Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. The
> points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
> winner. We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
> it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
> contest. These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
> Region 11 this year.
>
> 2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners.
> This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
> higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall.
> This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
> pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. Super regionals would
> be by seeding list similar to the nationals. Again the seven day
> contest would work well for the Super Regionals.
>
>
> I think we need to address the class creep issue as well soon. We
> have too many classes, it is time to eliminate some classes. I vote
> to kill World class and strongly consider the end of Open class and
> 1-26. That would put us down to four classes; Std, 15M, 18M and
> Sports 9 (Club).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Jun 30, 6:43*pm, "Kevin Anderson" >
wrote:
> Tim,
>
> Obviously you do not fly a 1-26, World Class bird, or a open class bird.
> There are different birds for different taste and wallets.
>
> The 1-26 Championships (Technically the North American 1-26 Championships)
> is sponsored by the 1-26 Association,www.126association.org
> and is the original one design competition.. *It has been held yearly since
> 1965.
> This year will make the 43rd contest. *We have 21 1-26's competing with 24
> pilots,
> *3 are flying team. *Last year we had 27 1-26's with 6 teams. *Last year we
> were joined by the
> World Class, and they were such a good fit with our group that they are with
> us
> again this year, with plans also to be together next year.
>
> The requirements for entering are not as stringent as some of the other
> national contest, but the competition is great and the group of people is
> even better. *Some have been flying the same 1-26 for over 40 years, while
> some are relatively new pilots. *New pilots are mentored and brought along.
> I went to my first 1-26 Champs in 2001 and have not looked back.
>
> Some 1-26 pilots also fly other gilders, including advanced glass birds.
> This is a
> great source of completion, and some of the US National Champions have
> competed in the Championships in the past.
>
> The 1-26 has a loyal following and is a GREAT WAY for someone to get started
> in cross-country soaring, competition, and records. The cost of a 1-26 is
> about what
> a fiberglass trailer cost these days. *Would you rather have the glider and
> trailer of your
> own, or just fly club ships until some date in the future where the time and
> money all finally
> come together so you could fly high performance. *For some it will never
> happen.
>
> The Association keeps regional as well as national records and has a
> Cross-country
> Sweepstakes that goes back to 1969. (This predates OCL by quite a few
> years.)
>
> 39 pilots have accomplished all of their Diamonds in the 1-26, with quite a
> few 500K
> flights in the little bird.
>
> The 1-26 Championships was the first place in the US to use GPS during
> competition. *Trying going to a competition anywhere without one now.
>
> So, we are not going away, and we even invite you to buy or borrow a 1-26
> and come out and fly with us. *This year the Championships are at TSA in
> three weeks.
>
> Please see the 1-26 Association web site and join the group. *Membership is
> $15
> a year and includes a copy of the LOG which is the history of the
> Association
> along with records and accomplishments that have been achieved over the
> years.
>
> Kevin R. Anderson
> President 1-26 Association
> Double Diamond 1-26 Pilot
> SGS 1-26B 192
>
> "Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. *With time
> > constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
> > outdated. *We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
> > nationals. *I think it is time to seriously look at these
> > alternatives. *We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
> > miles (6000 km) across. *Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
> > prohibitive.
>
> > This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. *I will throw
> > out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.
>
> > 1. *Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. *The
> > points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
> > winner. *We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
> > it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
> > contest. *These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
> > Region 11 this year.
>
> > 2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners.
> > This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
> > higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall.
> > This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
> > pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. *Super regionals would
> > be by seeding list similar to the nationals. *Again the seven day
> > contest would work well for the Super Regionals.
>
> > I think we need to address the class creep issue as well soon. *We
> > have too many classes, it is time to eliminate some classes. *I vote
> > to kill World class and strongly consider the end of Open class and
> > 1-26. *That would put us down to four classes; Std, 15M, 18M and
> > Sports 9 (Club).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

well put Kevin. I often have wished I could make the Cherokee an
"honorary" 1-26 so I could come down to the 1-26 contest. Those guys
know how to have fun! Ever see them at the convention?? They are ALL
SMILES.

[Orion Kingman]

On Jun 30, 5:45*pm, wrote:
> On Jun 30, 6:43*pm, "Kevin *Anderson" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Tim,
>
> > Obviously you do not fly a 1-26, World Class bird, or a open class bird..
> > There are different birds for different taste and wallets.
>
> > The 1-26 Championships (Technically the North American 1-26 Championships)
> > is sponsored by the 1-26 Association,www.126association.org
> > and is the original one design competition.. *It has been held yearly since
> > 1965.
> > This year will make the 43rd contest. *We have 21 1-26's competing with 24
> > pilots,
> > *3 are flying team. *Last year we had 27 1-26's with 6 teams. *Last year we
> > were joined by the
> > World Class, and they were such a good fit with our group that they are with
> > us
> > again this year, with plans also to be together next year.
>
> > The requirements for entering are not as stringent as some of the other
> > national contest, but the competition is great and the group of people is
> > even better. *Some have been flying the same 1-26 for over 40 years, while
> > some are relatively new pilots. *New pilots are mentored and brought along.
> > I went to my first 1-26 Champs in 2001 and have not looked back.
>
> > Some 1-26 pilots also fly other gilders, including advanced glass birds..
> > This is a
> > great source of completion, and some of the US National Champions have
> > competed in the Championships in the past.
>
> > The 1-26 has a loyal following and is a GREAT WAY for someone to get started
> > in cross-country soaring, competition, and records. The cost of a 1-26 is
> > about what
> > a fiberglass trailer cost these days. *Would you rather have the glider and
> > trailer of your
> > own, or just fly club ships until some date in the future where the time and
> > money all finally
> > come together so you could fly high performance. *For some it will never
> > happen.
>
> > The Association keeps regional as well as national records and has a
> > Cross-country
> > Sweepstakes that goes back to 1969. (This predates OCL by quite a few
> > years.)
>
> > 39 pilots have accomplished all of their Diamonds in the 1-26, with quite a
> > few 500K
> > flights in the little bird.
>
> > The 1-26 Championships was the first place in the US to use GPS during
> > competition. *Trying going to a competition anywhere without one now.
>
> > So, we are not going away, and we even invite you to buy or borrow a 1-26
> > and come out and fly with us. *This year the Championships are at TSA in
> > three weeks.
>
> > Please see the 1-26 Association web site and join the group. *Membership is
> > $15
> > a year and includes a copy of the LOG which is the history of the
> > Association
> > along with records and accomplishments that have been achieved over the
> > years.
>
> > Kevin R. Anderson
> > President 1-26 Association
> > Double Diamond 1-26 Pilot
> > SGS 1-26B 192
>
> > "Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
>
> ....
>
> > > It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. *With time
> > > constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
> > > outdated. *We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
> > > nationals. *I think it is time to seriously look at these
> > > alternatives. *We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
> > > miles (6000 km) across. *Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
> > > prohibitive.
>
> > > This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. *I will throw
> > > out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.
>
> > > 1. *Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. *The
> > > points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
> > > winner. *We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
> > > it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
> > > contest. *These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
> > > Region 11 this year.
>
> > > 2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners.
> > > This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
> > > higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall.
> > > This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
> > > pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. *Super regionals would
> > > be by seeding list similar to the nationals. *Again the seven day
> > > contest would work well for the Super Regionals.
>
> > > I think we need to address the class creep issue as well soon. *We
> > > have too many classes, it is time to eliminate some classes. *I vote
> > > to kill World class and strongly consider the end of Open class and
> > > 1-26. *That would put us down to four classes; Std, 15M, 18M and
> > > Sports 9 (Club).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> well put Kevin. *I often have wished I could make the Cherokee an
> "honorary" 1-26 so I could come down to the 1-26 contest. *Those guys
> know how to have fun! *Ever see them at the convention?? They are ALL
> SMILES.

I prefer to maintain the scowl of an Open class pilot, all
alone with no friends.

[Paul Cordell]

On Jul 1, 12:33*pm, Orion Kingman > wrote:
> On Jun 30, 5:45*pm, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 30, 6:43*pm, "Kevin *Anderson" >
> > wrote:
>
> > > Tim,
>
> > > Obviously you do not fly a 1-26, World Class bird, or a open class bird.
> > > There are different birds for different taste and wallets.
>
> > > The 1-26 Championships (Technically the North American 1-26 Championships)
> > > is sponsored by the 1-26 Association,www.126association.org
> > > and is the original one design competition.. *It has been held yearly since
> > > 1965.
> > > This year will make the 43rd contest. *We have 21 1-26's competing with 24
> > > pilots,
> > > *3 are flying team. *Last year we had 27 1-26's with 6 teams. *Last year we
> > > were joined by the
> > > World Class, and they were such a good fit with our group that they are with
> > > us
> > > again this year, with plans also to be together next year.
>
> > > The requirements for entering are not as stringent as some of the other
> > > national contest, but the competition is great and the group of people is
> > > even better. *Some have been flying the same 1-26 for over 40 years, while
> > > some are relatively new pilots. *New pilots are mentored and brought along.
> > > I went to my first 1-26 Champs in 2001 and have not looked back.
>
> > > Some 1-26 pilots also fly other gilders, including advanced glass birds.
> > > This is a
> > > great source of completion, and some of the US National Champions have
> > > competed in the Championships in the past.
>
> > > The 1-26 has a loyal following and is a GREAT WAY for someone to get started
> > > in cross-country soaring, competition, and records. The cost of a 1-26 is
> > > about what
> > > a fiberglass trailer cost these days. *Would you rather have the glider and
> > > trailer of your
> > > own, or just fly club ships until some date in the future where the time and
> > > money all finally
> > > come together so you could fly high performance. *For some it will never
> > > happen.
>
> > > The Association keeps regional as well as national records and has a
> > > Cross-country
> > > Sweepstakes that goes back to 1969. (This predates OCL by quite a few
> > > years.)
>
> > > 39 pilots have accomplished all of their Diamonds in the 1-26, with quite a
> > > few 500K
> > > flights in the little bird.
>
> > > The 1-26 Championships was the first place in the US to use GPS during
> > > competition. *Trying going to a competition anywhere without one now..
>
> > > So, we are not going away, and we even invite you to buy or borrow a 1-26
> > > and come out and fly with us. *This year the Championships are at TSA in
> > > three weeks.
>
> > > Please see the 1-26 Association web site and join the group. *Membership is
> > > $15
> > > a year and includes a copy of the LOG which is the history of the
> > > Association
> > > along with records and accomplishments that have been achieved over the
> > > years.
>
> > > Kevin R. Anderson
> > > President 1-26 Association
> > > Double Diamond 1-26 Pilot
> > > SGS 1-26B 192
>
> > > "Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
>
> > ....
>
> > > > It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. *With time
> > > > constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
> > > > outdated. *We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
> > > > nationals. *I think it is time to seriously look at these
> > > > alternatives. *We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
> > > > miles (6000 km) across. *Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
> > > > prohibitive.
>
> > > > This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. *I will throw
> > > > out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.
>
> > > > 1. *Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. *The
> > > > points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
> > > > winner. *We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
> > > > it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
> > > > contest. *These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
> > > > Region 11 this year.
>
> > > > 2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners.
> > > > This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
> > > > higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall..
> > > > This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
> > > > pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. *Super regionals would
> > > > be by seeding list similar to the nationals. *Again the seven day
> > > > contest would work well for the Super Regionals.
>
> > > > I think we need to address the class creep issue as well soon. *We
> > > > have too many classes, it is time to eliminate some classes. *I vote
> > > > to kill World class and strongly consider the end of Open class and
> > > > 1-26. *That would put us down to four classes; Std, 15M, 18M and
> > > > Sports 9 (Club).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > well put Kevin. *I often have wished I could make the Cherokee an
> > "honorary" 1-26 so I could come down to the 1-26 contest. *Those guys
> > know how to have fun! *Ever see them at the convention?? They are ALL
> > SMILES.
>
> I prefer to maintain the scowl of an Open class pilot, all
> alone with no friends. - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey!! Not if your Open Class Ship has 2 seats!!

[Orion Kingman]

On Jul 1, 12:43*pm, Paul Cordell > wrote:
> On Jul 1, 12:33*pm, Orion Kingman > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 30, 5:45*pm, wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 30, 6:43*pm, "Kevin *Anderson" >
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Tim,
>
> > > > Obviously you do not fly a 1-26, World Class bird, or a open class bird.
> > > > There are different birds for different taste and wallets.
>
> > > > The 1-26 Championships (Technically the North American 1-26 Championships)
> > > > is sponsored by the 1-26 Association,www.126association.org
> > > > and is the original one design competition.. *It has been held yearly since
> > > > 1965.
> > > > This year will make the 43rd contest. *We have 21 1-26's competing with 24
> > > > pilots,
> > > > *3 are flying team. *Last year we had 27 1-26's with 6 teams. *Last year we
> > > > were joined by the
> > > > World Class, and they were such a good fit with our group that they are with
> > > > us
> > > > again this year, with plans also to be together next year.
>
> > > > The requirements for entering are not as stringent as some of the other
> > > > national contest, but the competition is great and the group of people is
> > > > even better. *Some have been flying the same 1-26 for over 40 years, while
> > > > some are relatively new pilots. *New pilots are mentored and brought along.
> > > > I went to my first 1-26 Champs in 2001 and have not looked back.
>
> > > > Some 1-26 pilots also fly other gilders, including advanced glass birds.
> > > > This is a
> > > > great source of completion, and some of the US National Champions have
> > > > competed in the Championships in the past.
>
> > > > The 1-26 has a loyal following and is a GREAT WAY for someone to get started
> > > > in cross-country soaring, competition, and records. The cost of a 1-26 is
> > > > about what
> > > > a fiberglass trailer cost these days. *Would you rather have the glider and
> > > > trailer of your
> > > > own, or just fly club ships until some date in the future where the time and
> > > > money all finally
> > > > come together so you could fly high performance. *For some it will never
> > > > happen.
>
> > > > The Association keeps regional as well as national records and has a
> > > > Cross-country
> > > > Sweepstakes that goes back to 1969. (This predates OCL by quite a few
> > > > years.)
>
> > > > 39 pilots have accomplished all of their Diamonds in the 1-26, with quite a
> > > > few 500K
> > > > flights in the little bird.
>
> > > > The 1-26 Championships was the first place in the US to use GPS during
> > > > competition. *Trying going to a competition anywhere without one now.
>
> > > > So, we are not going away, and we even invite you to buy or borrow a 1-26
> > > > and come out and fly with us. *This year the Championships are at TSA in
> > > > three weeks.
>
> > > > Please see the 1-26 Association web site and join the group. *Membership is
> > > > $15
> > > > a year and includes a copy of the LOG which is the history of the
> > > > Association
> > > > along with records and accomplishments that have been achieved over the
> > > > years.
>
> > > > Kevin R. Anderson
> > > > President 1-26 Association
> > > > Double Diamond 1-26 Pilot
> > > > SGS 1-26B 192
>
> > > > "Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
>
> > > ...
>
> > > > > It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. *With time
> > > > > constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
> > > > > outdated. *We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
> > > > > nationals. *I think it is time to seriously look at these
> > > > > alternatives. *We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
> > > > > miles (6000 km) across. *Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
> > > > > prohibitive.
>
> > > > > This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. *I will throw
> > > > > out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.
>
> > > > > 1. *Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. *The
> > > > > points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
> > > > > winner. *We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
> > > > > it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
> > > > > contest. *These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
> > > > > Region 11 this year.
>
> > > > > 2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners..
> > > > > This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
> > > > > higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall.
> > > > > This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
> > > > > pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. *Super regionals would
> > > > > be by seeding list similar to the nationals. *Again the seven day
> > > > > contest would work well for the Super Regionals.
>
> > > > > I think we need to address the class creep issue as well soon. *We
> > > > > have too many classes, it is time to eliminate some classes. *I vote
> > > > > to kill World class and strongly consider the end of Open class and
> > > > > 1-26. *That would put us down to four classes; Std, 15M, 18M and
> > > > > Sports 9 (Club).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > well put Kevin. *I often have wished I could make the Cherokee an
> > > "honorary" 1-26 so I could come down to the 1-26 contest. *Those guys
> > > know how to have fun! *Ever see them at the convention?? They are ALL
> > > SMILES.
>
> > I prefer to maintain the scowl of an Open class pilot, all
> > alone with no friends. - Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hey!! * * Not if your Open Class Ship has 2 seats!!

... and your one of the "open class" pilot that thermals too.
Remember Paul, "To turn is to admit defeat."
;)

[Tim Taylor]

On Jun 30, 12:26 pm, Tim Taylor > wrote:
> It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. With time
> constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
> outdated. We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
> nationals. I think it is time to seriously look at these
> alternatives. We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
> miles (6000 km) across. Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
> prohibitive.
>
> This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. I will throw
> out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.
>
> 1. Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. The
> points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
> winner. We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
> it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
> contest. These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
> Region 11 this year.
>
> 2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners.
> This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
> higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall.
> This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
> pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. Super regionals would
> be by seeding list similar to the nationals. Again the seven day
> contest would work well for the Super Regionals.
>
> I think we need to address the class creep issue as well soon. We
> have too many classes, it is time to eliminate some classes. I vote
> to kill World class and strongly consider the end of Open class and
> 1-26. That would put us down to four classes; Std, 15M, 18M and
> Sports 9 (Club).

OK, my fault Let put the thread back on subject:

It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. With time
constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
outdated. We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
nationals. I think it is time to seriously look at these
alternatives. We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
miles (6000 km) across. Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
prohibitive.

This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. I will throw
out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.

1. Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. The
points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
winner. We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
contest. These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
Region 11 this year.

2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners.
This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall.
This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. Super regionals would
be by seeding list similar to the nationals. Again the seven day
contest would work well for the Super Regionals.

[Tim Taylor]

On Jul 1, 2:41 pm, Orion Kingman > wrote:
> On Jul 1, 12:43 pm, Paul Cordell > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 1, 12:33 pm, Orion Kingman > wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 30, 5:45 pm, wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 30, 6:43 pm, "Kevin Anderson" >
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Tim,
>
> > > > > Obviously you do not fly a 1-26, World Class bird, or a open class bird.
> > > > > There are different birds for different taste and wallets.
>
> > > > > The 1-26 Championships (Technically the North American 1-26 Championships)
> > > > > is sponsored by the 1-26 Association,www.126association.org
> > > > > and is the original one design competition.. It has been held yearly since
> > > > > 1965.
> > > > > This year will make the 43rd contest. We have 21 1-26's competing with 24
> > > > > pilots,
> > > > > 3 are flying team. Last year we had 27 1-26's with 6 teams. Last year we
> > > > > were joined by the
> > > > > World Class, and they were such a good fit with our group that they are with
> > > > > us
> > > > > again this year, with plans also to be together next year.
>
> > > > > The requirements for entering are not as stringent as some of the other
> > > > > national contest, but the competition is great and the group of people is
> > > > > even better. Some have been flying the same 1-26 for over 40 years, while
> > > > > some are relatively new pilots. New pilots are mentored and brought along.
> > > > > I went to my first 1-26 Champs in 2001 and have not looked back.
>
> > > > > Some 1-26 pilots also fly other gilders, including advanced glass birds.
> > > > > This is a
> > > > > great source of completion, and some of the US National Champions have
> > > > > competed in the Championships in the past.
>
> > > > > The 1-26 has a loyal following and is a GREAT WAY for someone to get started
> > > > > in cross-country soaring, competition, and records. The cost of a 1-26 is
> > > > > about what
> > > > > a fiberglass trailer cost these days. Would you rather have the glider and
> > > > > trailer of your
> > > > > own, or just fly club ships until some date in the future where the time and
> > > > > money all finally
> > > > > come together so you could fly high performance. For some it will never
> > > > > happen.
>
> > > > > The Association keeps regional as well as national records and has a
> > > > > Cross-country
> > > > > Sweepstakes that goes back to 1969. (This predates OCL by quite a few
> > > > > years.)
>
> > > > > 39 pilots have accomplished all of their Diamonds in the 1-26, with quite a
> > > > > few 500K
> > > > > flights in the little bird.
>
> > > > > The 1-26 Championships was the first place in the US to use GPS during
> > > > > competition. Trying going to a competition anywhere without one now.
>
> > > > > So, we are not going away, and we even invite you to buy or borrow a 1-26
> > > > > and come out and fly with us. This year the Championships are at TSA in
> > > > > three weeks.
>
> > > > > Please see the 1-26 Association web site and join the group. Membership is
> > > > > $15
> > > > > a year and includes a copy of the LOG which is the history of the
> > > > > Association
> > > > > along with records and accomplishments that have been achieved over the
> > > > > years.
>
> > > > > Kevin R. Anderson
> > > > > President 1-26 Association
> > > > > Double Diamond 1-26 Pilot
> > > > > SGS 1-26B 192
>
> > > > > "Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
>
> > > > ...
>
> > > > > > It is time for a major overhaul of the US Nationals system. With time
> > > > > > constraints and cost it is making the single national approach
> > > > > > outdated. We have discussed the idea of super regionals or multiple
> > > > > > nationals. I think it is time to seriously look at these
> > > > > > alternatives. We have to recognize that the country is nearly 3500
> > > > > > miles (6000 km) across. Traveling coast to coast is time and cost
> > > > > > prohibitive.
>
> > > > > > This thread is to kick off a discussion of alternatives. I will throw
> > > > > > out two possibilities and look forward to other ideas.
>
> > > > > > 1. Two nationals in each class a year, one east and one west. The
> > > > > > points will be the same as our current nationals, 100 points to the
> > > > > > winner. We could reduce the nationals from 10 days to seven to make
> > > > > > it possible to fly in a week rather than taking two weeks for a
> > > > > > contest. These can be combined with a regional similar to Sports and
> > > > > > Region 11 this year.
>
> > > > > > 2. Super regional system, points would be 96 to 98 for the winners.
> > > > > > This would encourage more pilots to fly and provide a place to have a
> > > > > > higher level of competition to improve the US soaring skills overall.
> > > > > > This years Region 9 at Parowan was highly competitive and I think it
> > > > > > pushes all the pilots to improve their skills. Super regionals would
> > > > > > be by seeding list similar to the nationals. Again the seven day
> > > > > > contest would work well for the Super Regionals.
>
> > > > > > I think we need to address the class creep issue as well soon. We
> > > > > > have too many classes, it is time to eliminate some classes. I vote
> > > > > > to kill World class and strongly consider the end of Open class and
> > > > > > 1-26. That would put us down to four classes; Std, 15M, 18M and
> > > > > > Sports 9 (Club).- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > well put Kevin. I often have wished I could make the Cherokee an
> > > > "honorary" 1-26 so I could come down to the 1-26 contest. Those guys
> > > > know how to have fun! Ever see them at the convention?? They are ALL
> > > > SMILES.
>
> > > I prefer to maintain the scowl of an Open class pilot, all
> > > alone with no friends. - Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Hey!! Not if your Open Class Ship has 2 seats!!
>
> ... and your one of the "open class" pilot that thermals too.
> Remember Paul, "To turn is to admit defeat."
> ;)

[[email protected]]

I agree there are problems with the current FAI Class Nationals in the
US, but what I see mostly is that they're too small and, hence, it's
sometimes difficult to find hosts for all of them. Thirty years ago it
wasn't unusual to have 50 or 60 pilots in a 15M or Standard Class
Nationals. A few years ago, we had 22 for the Standard Class at
Uvalde, one of the best racing sites in the US. Many of us used to
agonize over the seeding list to make sure we qualified each year for
the Nationals. Now the only time the seeding list is relevant is at a
few popular regionals such as Perry, Parowan, New Casle, and Mifflin.
Those have become super regionals even without the incentive of higher
seeding.

I already have the flexibility to go to a "local" national contest
nearly every year. I own an ASW 24, still competitive in the Standard
Class. I can also fly Sports Class. This year I chose Standard Class
at Cordele (east) over Sports Class at Montegue (west). Next year I'll
have to choose between Sports (Elmira) and Standard (Montegue). I've
also flown in 15 Meter contests: modern Standard Class gliders are
very close to 15M gliders in the east. Pilots with Standard Class
airplanes with 18M tips have another option, though pure 18M gliders
have an advantage. I even flew one Open Class Nationals (competitive
on strong days when my wing loading and maneuverability were higher;
less so when it got weak and pure glide ratio was important).

I agree we're suffering from class proliferation. But the 1-26 and
World Classes don't really dilute participation in the other classes.
Given the prices of new gliders, it's difficult to contemplate
disenfranchising anyone by eliminating one or more classes.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

[BB]

> I already have the flexibility to go to a "local" national contest
> nearly every year. I own an ASW 24, still competitive in the *Standard
> Class. I can also fly Sports Class. This year I chose Standard Class
> at Cordele (east) over Sports Class at Montegue (west). Next year I'll
> have to choose between Sports (Elmira) and Standard (Montegue). I've
> also flown in 15 Meter contests: modern Standard Class gliders are
> very close to 15M gliders in the east. Pilots with Standard Class
> airplanes with 18M tips have another option, though pure 18M gliders
> have an advantage. I even flew one Open Class Nationals (competitive
> on strong days when my wing loading and maneuverability were higher;
> less so when it got weak and pure glide ratio was important).

Chip expresses very well what's going on: the vast majority of pilots
fly for fun, and choose a good nearby event rather than schlep all the
way across the country to follow a particular class. In the last few
years, on average there are fewer than 3 pilots who cross the
Mississippi to fly true East (Mifflin/Cordele) or West (Montague/
Ephrata) contests. I counted zero "west" coast pilots at mifflin this
year, and 3 easterners at Montague now (among the names I recognize,
which is most but not all of the field.)

This by itself isn't realy a problem. It's great to be able to enjoy
national level competition within a 1000 mile radius of home, though
with the compromise of often flying a suboptimal class. Pilots seem to
have resoundingly made the choice in favor of conveneince.

The fact does suggest that pilots might prefer a system with multiple
"nationals" in which glider classes are mixed with handicaps, as we
now mix standard and 15 at some regionals. What do US ras'ers think of
that?

It also means that world team selection is made from a very small
group of people willing to take an extra week to drive across the
country to follow a given class, and typically to fly in multiple
nationals each year since wins count and losses don't hurt you. But
team selection is another matter. First, we have to run successful
contests, then we have to figure out how to use the results of those
contests to pick winning teams.

John Cochrane