Clearly Outside the Box

[sisu1a]

Here's something you don't see every day.

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/07/15/roland-cernats-energy-efficient-oriens-glider/

Although it seems like there may be a 'little work' left to bring this
to fruition, it is still gets me all warm and fuzzy to see people
reaching in directions like this.

-Paul

[rlovinggood]

"Clearly", the inventor hasn't flown on blue thermal days in the
southeast (or anywhere else where the temps get slightly warm...)


Talk about "greenhouse effects..." (Or would that be "hothouse
effects"...)


Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

[ContestID67]

I agree that this is "out of the box" thinking. While in engineering
school they taught us how to brainstorm. Everyone must write down 10
ideas. When you are forced to come up with 10 ideas, you can quickly
run out sane ideas and the last 3-4 end can become pretty bizare. Its
those bizare ideas that are "out of the box". Unfortunately most
brainstorming is done real time in front of, to you at least, a more
knowledgable group people who often maintain the status quo and/or
only agree with incremental changes. Being presented with someone's
10 ideas, sometimes you say, "I never thought of it that way".

Anyway, my status quo thoughts are;

1) Interesting "winglets". I wonder if these are aeronautically sound
or were they used simply because they look good.
2) Someone needs to tell the designer that while side-by-side seating
might seem like the right thing to do (in airplanes and cars), tandem
seating produces the least cross section area to the ship and better
performance.

[Martin Gregorie[_3_]]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:22:24 -0700, ContestID67 wrote:

> 1) Interesting "winglets". I wonder if these are aeronautically sound
> or were they used simply because they look good.
>
I bet the interference drag from those tip loops would more than outweigh
any possible benefit.

3) I can't see that tiny engine-generator unit coming remotely close to
running the electric motor at night or under cloud. I notice that there's
no fuel tank or electric storage system.

4) One of the drawings shows "transparent photocells" on top of the cabin.
Transparent photocells are impossible because by definition all photons
will pass straight through. Translucent or band-pass photocells may be
possible but that's not what was described.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org | Zappa fan & glider pilot

[Don Byrer]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 12:53:08 +0100, Martin Gregorie
> wrote:


>4) One of the drawings shows "transparent photocells" on top of the cabin.
>Transparent photocells are impossible because by definition all photons
>will pass straight through.

Nahhh...
They're made of transparent aluminum with a photon filter. Just ask
Scotty for the formula.


Perhaps the transparent glider will be useful for those chilly
pre-winter days when you could use the extra heat?
Don Byrer KJ5KB
Power & Glider Pilot Guy
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"

[Eric Greenwell]

Don Byrer wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 12:53:08 +0100, Martin Gregorie
> > wrote:
>
>
>> 4) One of the drawings shows "transparent photocells" on top of the cabin.
>> Transparent photocells are impossible because by definition all photons
>> will pass straight through.
>
> Nahhh...
> They're made of transparent aluminum with a photon filter. Just ask
> Scotty for the formula.

Or ask researchers in Australia and Japan:

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/04/14/dyesol-solar-windows/
Inhabitat » Transparent Solar Windows Set to Energize Homes

http://www.aist.go.jp/aist_e/museum/science/12/12.html
Transparent Solar Cell

They are transparent to visible light, not to UV or infrared.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Brad[_2_]]

Someone is having fun modeling in Rhinoceros.

Brad

[Tom Gardner]

I remember an anecdote told by a professor of engineering at Imperial
College (=solid high quality engineering) that also lectured to
"Industrial Designers" at the Royal College of Art (=solid high
quality art).

He noted that if you asked the designers to produce a design for an
egg, they would produce something that was the size, shape and colour
of an egg, but which was completely empty inside. And they would be
*completely* satisfied with that.

It seems that anecdote can still be still be recycled, with no loss of
validity.

[bagmaker]

Where is the door?

[Don Johnstone[_3_]]

Gliders flying at night? Given that some have difficulty in daylight I
can't see that idea catching on :-)


At 11:53 20 July 2008, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:22:24 -0700, ContestID67 wrote:
>
>> 1) Interesting "winglets". I wonder if these are aeronautically
sound
>> or were they used simply because they look good.
>>
>I bet the interference drag from those tip loops would more than
outweigh
>any possible benefit.
>
>3) I can't see that tiny engine-generator unit coming remotely close to
>running the electric motor at night or under cloud. I notice that
there's
>no fuel tank or electric storage system.
>
>4) One of the drawings shows "transparent photocells" on top of the
cabin.
>Transparent photocells are impossible because by definition all photons
>will pass straight through. Translucent or band-pass photocells may be
>possible but that's not what was described.
>
>
>--
>martin@ | Martin Gregorie
>gregorie. |
>org | Zappa fan & glider pilot
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Jul 20, 3:40*pm, bagmaker >
wrote:
> Where is the door?
>
> --
> bagmaker

Through the hole in center of the electric motor. It's like the old
science demonstration for getting a hard boiled egg into a soda
bottle. Throw in a small piece of burning paper to use up the oxygen
and reduce the internal pressure by enough to "thwump!" suck the egg
in. Getting out, well that's a different matter.

[Discus 44]

It is good to have new designs, but this one isn't a good idea or the
least bit practical. It takes a lot of energy and CARBON to make
molds for the polycarbonate fuselage. So far I do not know of any
facility who can make such a massive injection molded part. Maybe
scale this down to a toy and it will be available at Walmart for
$19.95. Competely ridiculous.

[Eric Greenwell]

Discus 44 wrote:
> It is good to have new designs, but this one isn't a good idea or the
> least bit practical. It takes a lot of energy and CARBON to make
> molds for the polycarbonate fuselage. So far I do not know of any
> facility who can make such a massive injection molded part.

That would not seem necessary. Perhaps it could be blow or spun molded,
or built from several large pieces glued or welded together. More to the
point, I think, is the suitablity of the material in the first place:
without fiber reinforcement, I think it might be too heavy.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Brad[_2_]]

On the UAV project I was involved in the finacier decided the time
frame and the cost was too great for the traditional mold-part
process. He got ahold of a friend in the polycarbonate/stratch form
biz and was convinced this was the way to go.

$15,000 later we got floppy parts that were to heavy and impossible to
trim.

Brad


On Jul 21, 9:20*am, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> Discus 44 wrote:
> > It is good to have new designs, but this one isn't a good idea or the
> > least bit practical. *It takes a lot of energy and CARBON to make
> > molds for the polycarbonate fuselage. *So far I do not know of any
> > facility who can make such a massive injection molded part.
>
> That would not seem necessary. Perhaps it could be blow or spun molded,
> or built from several large pieces glued or welded together. More to the
> point, I think, is the suitablity of the material in the first place:
> without fiber reinforcement, I think it might be too heavy.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> * Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> * * * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more
>
> * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Jul 20, 2:22*am, ContestID67 > wrote:
> I agree that this is "out of the box" thinking...

Don Lancaster has written that ideas are not a dime a dozen--rather
more like a dime a bale in hundred-bale lots.

As for structural uses of polycarbonate, that can be made to work fine
just so long as you understand the fundamental difference between
strength and stiffness.

The general rule of thumb for PV solar cells is that you can expect
1KW/m^2 of area, but only if the sun is high (less atmosphere to
penetrate) and the cells are oriented normal to the sun. So the
exposed area of a typical 15m ship of S=10m^2 might yield 10KW (just
over 13 horsepower) under once-in-a-turn conditions, and maybe average
40% of that, around 5 horsepower, over a sunlit day. I can see that
working for a highly-optimized single-seater. Heck, I've been to the
ESA Western Workshop enough times to actually see it work for a
specific highly-optimized single-seater. But for a less finely-
optimized 2-seater, probably not so much.

BTW and somewhat off-topic, in the latest update of his Energy
Fundamentals paper, Lancaster suggests that PV solar might actually
not be a net energy sink, and proposes a figure of $1/installed watt
as the break-even threshold. Heck, that might even be doable.

Thanks, Bob K.

[[email protected]]

{Quote from article}
A plane with [a] reinvented lifecycle based on the Cradle-to-Cradle
principle. It combines an ecological energy concept and sustainable
materials, with an organic design language and bionic inspired
details”.

Cernat’s concept is governed by a “designed-for-disassembly”
philosophy based upon the Cradle-to-Cradle ideals, thus all of its
materials are easily recyclable. The glider’s frame is constructed out
of a lightweight flax bio-compound that is CO2 neutral, recyclable...
{end quote}

sounds just like my Cherokee! except that before my glider was a
glider it actually took CO2 OUT of the atmosphere and replaced it with
Oxygen. In fact, depending on how old growth the wood is, a lot of
could be flying Carbon Positive aircraft! :D