Accident commentary

[Tman]

With all due respect...

"S" turns on final are a bit scary. More than a few have spun it in due
to them. Here's another one where "S" turns seem to be involved. I can
't picture being on short final and doing the kind of "S" turns to allow
_two_ departures in front of you.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080720X01084&key=1

I remember there was another one a while ago, a lady student pilot spun
it in after the tower requested "S" turns for spacing, and this was on
one of her first solo flights!

And this one is scary, just cause it seems like one of those that are
true mechanical failures:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080715X01052&key=1

I wonder if he knew about this history of the bird that he was renting:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X37115&key=1

[BT]

12 years between incidents on the C-150... obviously no correlation can be
made..
what are you implying?
BT

"Tman" <x@x> wrote in message
. ..
> With all due respect...
>
> "S" turns on final are a bit scary. More than a few have spun it in due
> to them. Here's another one where "S" turns seem to be involved. I can
> 't picture being on short final and doing the kind of "S" turns to allow
> _two_ departures in front of you.
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080720X01084&key=1
>
> I remember there was another one a while ago, a lady student pilot spun it
> in after the tower requested "S" turns for spacing, and this was on one of
> her first solo flights!
>
> And this one is scary, just cause it seems like one of those that are true
> mechanical failures:
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080715X01052&key=1
>
> I wonder if he knew about this history of the bird that he was renting:
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X37115&key=1
>
>
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Tman <x@x> wrote in :

> With all due respect...
>
> "S" turns on final are a bit scary.


no, they aren't

More than a few have spun it in due
> to them. Here's another one where "S" turns seem to be involved. I can
> 't picture being on short final and doing the kind of "S" turns to allow
> _two_ departures in front of you.
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080720X01084&key=1
>
> I remember there was another one a while ago, a lady student pilot spun
> it in after the tower requested "S" turns for spacing, and this was on
> one of her first solo flights!
>
> And this one is scary, just cause it seems like one of those that are
> true mechanical failures:
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080715X01052&key=1
>
> I wonder if he knew about this history of the bird that he was renting:
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X37115&key=1

A lot of old airplanes have had a prang, so what?

The NTSB made no conclusions about the second accident. you certainly can't
based on that evidence.

Bertie
>
>
>

[george]

On Jul 22, 11:13 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> Tman <x@x> wrote m:
>
> > With all due respect...
>
> > "S" turns on final are a bit scary.
>
> no, they aren't

Again no
Keep the airspeed up and waltz the aeroplane.
Nothing scary at all.

[Matt Whiting]

Tman wrote:
> With all due respect...
>
> "S" turns on final are a bit scary. More than a few have spun it in due
> to them. Here's another one where "S" turns seem to be involved. I can
> 't picture being on short final and doing the kind of "S" turns to allow
> _two_ departures in front of you.
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080720X01084&key=1
>
> I remember there was another one a while ago, a lady student pilot spun
> it in after the tower requested "S" turns for spacing, and this was on
> one of her first solo flights!
>
> And this one is scary, just cause it seems like one of those that are
> true mechanical failures:
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080715X01052&key=1
>
> I wonder if he knew about this history of the bird that he was renting:
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X37115&key=1

With all due respect, if you aren't capable of flying s-turns without
stalling, then you should get some additional instruction and practice
until you are a competent pilot.

Matt

[Jim[_13_]]

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:14:54 -0400, Matt Whiting >
wrote:

>Tman wrote:
>> With all due respect...
>>
>> "S" turns on final are a bit scary. More than a few have spun it in due
>> to them. Here's another one where "S" turns seem to be involved. I can
>> 't picture being on short final and doing the kind of "S" turns to allow
>> _two_ departures in front of you.
>> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080720X01084&key=1
>>
>> I remember there was another one a while ago, a lady student pilot spun
>> it in after the tower requested "S" turns for spacing, and this was on
>> one of her first solo flights!
>>
>> And this one is scary, just cause it seems like one of those that are
>> true mechanical failures:
>> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080715X01052&key=1
>>
>> I wonder if he knew about this history of the bird that he was renting:
>> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X37115&key=1
>
>With all due respect, if you aren't capable of flying s-turns without
>stalling, then you should get some additional instruction and practice
>until you are a competent pilot.
>
>Matt

The point I get from such incidents as this is that there are pilots
who cannot safely fly s-turns in such conditions. Whether it's an
acceptable circumstance or not is not cogent.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jim" > wrote

> The point I get from such incidents as this is that there are pilots
> who cannot safely fly s-turns in such conditions. Whether it's an
> acceptable circumstance or not is not cogent.

Going one step further, as we all know, accidents are always a chain of
event. While most pilots (possibly this one, too) could normally fly some s
turns on final, if you throw in a couple more events (or things happening)
on top of that, it could throw it over to being the last link in the chain
that leads to the accident.
--
Jim in NC

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Jim wrote:
>
> The point I get from such incidents as this is that there are pilots
> who cannot safely fly s-turns in such conditions. Whether it's an
> acceptable circumstance or not is not cogent.

I always wonder if these same folks are the ones who would crash on hot
days, because they are taught to fly totally by PICTURE vs. instrument
scan, and don't understand accelerated stalls.

I lost an instrument rated friend who departure stalled with 5 family
members on a H&H day, based on "picture flying" vs. airspeed. It was a
Cherokee 6 in Pullayup, WA in 2002. His co-owner watched the crash.

Personally, I was taught bank angle vs. stall speed, Vx & Vy vs. sight
picture on varying condition days, etc... Before I soloed...

[[email protected]]

On Jul 23, 5:51*pm, B A R R Y > wrote:
> Jim wrote:
>
> > The point I get from such incidents as this is that there are pilots
> > who cannot safely fly s-turns in such conditions. *Whether it's an
> > acceptable circumstance or not is not cogent.
>
> I always wonder if these same folks are the ones who would crash on hot
> days, because they are taught to fly totally by PICTURE vs. instrument
> scan, and don't understand accelerated stalls.
>
> I lost an instrument rated friend who departure stalled with 5 family
> members on a H&H day, based on "picture flying" vs. airspeed. *It was a
> Cherokee 6 in Pullayup, WA in 2002. *His co-owner watched the crash.
>
> Personally, I was taught bank angle vs. stall speed, Vx & Vy vs. sight
> picture on varying condition days, etc... *Before I soloed...

Ya know..... Maybe it's just me but.. If your airsped is too low, or
the DA is high or any conbination of things add up to poor aircraft
performance you would think a competent pilot would sense the controls
being lazy,, read ; alot of input and little response ,the first thing
that comes to my mind is those pesky air molacules are not dense
enought and therefore the plane will fly poorly. It appears too many
pilots graduate with a ticket long before they actually understand
what keeps a plane in the air... Ps.. Airspeed is your
friend...because without it you ain't got s_it....

Ben
www.haaspowerair.com