Lightweight covering of 1/8 inch G1S plywood

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What can good one side 1/8 plywood be covered with for asthetics/
protection ?

1. paint - how much weight per square foot per coat after the paint
dries?

2. glue on white vinyl wallpaper

3. glue on grocery store aluminum foil

4. other options

[Morgans[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
> What can good one side 1/8 plywood be covered with for asthetics/
> protection ?
>
> 1. paint - how much weight per square foot per coat after the paint
> dries?
>
> 2. glue on white vinyl wallpaper
>
> 3. glue on grocery store aluminum foil
>
> 4. other options

Give us a clue on where and what the application is.

Inside an aircraft, outside of aircraft? Where on the aircraft? Or is an
aircraft at all?
--
Jim in NC

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article
>,
" > wrote:

> What can good one side 1/8 plywood be covered with for asthetics/
> protection ?
>
> 1. paint - how much weight per square foot per coat after the paint
> dries?
>
> 2. glue on white vinyl wallpaper
>
> 3. glue on grocery store aluminum foil
>
> 4. other options

Normally, plywood aircraft are covered with lightweight, doped fabric
("glider cloth"). See CAM 18.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote

> Normally, plywood aircraft are covered with lightweight, doped fabric
> ("glider cloth"). See CAM 18.

Many are also using a very light grade of fiberglass cloth and resin if it
is on the outside of the craft. That is what Falco recommends, IIRC.
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

Application is exterior on fuselage.

[Morgans[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
> Application is exterior on fuselage.

Personally, I would go with the fiberglass and resin. Fabric and dope
works, but glass should last forever.

Oh, I've been told that the surface under the glass must be as smooth as the
finish you want to achieve.
--
Jim in NC

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
"Morgans" > wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
> > Application is exterior on fuselage.
>
> Personally, I would go with the fiberglass and resin. Fabric and dope
> works, but glass should last forever.
>
> Oh, I've been told that the surface under the glass must be as smooth as the
> finish you want to achieve.

Too heavy! Doped Ceconite (or Stits) essentially last forever, too, as
long as you keep the bird hangared. And -- you can get a mirror finish,
if you desire. The secret is lots of thin coats of dope, sanded between
coats, then polished.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote

> Too heavy! Doped Ceconite (or Stits) essentially last forever, too, as
> long as you keep the bird hangared. And -- you can get a mirror finish,
> if you desire. The secret is lots of thin coats of dope, sanded between
> coats, then polished.

Yeah, I hear you, but I think you are not thinking light enough on the
weight or the fiberglass cloth. I'm talking the weight of cloth that would
be used for model airplanes. I recall that using that, it is barely heavier
than fabric and dope.

Rich Shankland's Emerald used glass, I believe. Many Falcos go with glass.

I don't doubt that fabric and dope is very good. I'm just putting the info
out that glass is also an option, and one that many prefer.
--
Jim in NC

[Ed Sullivan]

On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:13:44 -0400, Orval Fairbairn
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "Morgans" > wrote:
>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Application is exterior on fuselage.
>>
>> Personally, I would go with the fiberglass and resin. Fabric and dope
>> works, but glass should last forever.
>>
>> Oh, I've been told that the surface under the glass must be as smooth as the
>> finish you want to achieve.
>
>Too heavy! Doped Ceconite (or Stits) essentially last forever, too, as
>long as you keep the bird hangared. And -- you can get a mirror finish,
>if you desire. The secret is lots of thin coats of dope, sanded between
>coats, then polished.

Actually Model airplane glass is probably no heavier than Dacron and
more durable.

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Ed Sullivan wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:13:44 -0400, Orval Fairbairn
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
>>"Morgans" > wrote:
>>
>>
> wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Application is exterior on fuselage.
>>>
>>>Personally, I would go with the fiberglass and resin. Fabric and dope
>>>works, but glass should last forever.
>>>
>>>Oh, I've been told that the surface under the glass must be as smooth as the
>>>finish you want to achieve.
>>
>>Too heavy! Doped Ceconite (or Stits) essentially last forever, too, as
>>long as you keep the bird hangared. And -- you can get a mirror finish,
>>if you desire. The secret is lots of thin coats of dope, sanded between
>>coats, then polished.
>
>
> Actually Model airplane glass is probably no heavier than Dacron and
> more durable.


1/2 ounce per square yard verses 1.7

--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

[BobR]

The fiberglass being proposed for this is not the standard layup glass
used for normal layups. It is a very light weight (.5 oz) cloth that
is often used in boat construction to cover and protect teak and other
exposed wood. It is so thin and light that it becomes transparent.

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> "Morgans" > wrote:
>
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Application is exterior on fuselage.
> >
> > Personally, I would go with the fiberglass and resin. Fabric and dope
> > works, but glass should last forever.
> >
> > Oh, I've been told that the surface under the glass must be as smooth as the
> > finish you want to achieve.
>
> Too heavy! Doped Ceconite (or Stits) essentially last forever, too, as
> long as you keep the bird hangared. And -- you can get a mirror finish,
> if you desire. The secret is lots of thin coats of dope, sanded between
> coats, then polished.
>
> --
> Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[[email protected]]

On Aug 5, 10:04*pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
>
> Rich Shankland's Emerald used glass, I believe. *Many Falcos go with glass.

Thanks, Jim - but the Emeraude was covered (all surfaces) with 2.6 oz
Dacron, sealed with Poly-brush, UV'd with Poly-spray, then color
coated with Imron and the trim was clear coated. Since a good percent
of the surface is plywood rather than open framework, I considered
using 1.7 oz fabric on the ply. It would have made for a much more
difficult job, with the extra seams and all; and wouldn't really have
saved enough weight to go to the bother. Besides which, I'd rather
have a seam on the leading edge, wrapped over the curve, doubled, and
then taped. Using two weights of cloth would have meant an extra seam
adjacent to the open bay and right out there in the airstream, trying
to rip open.

I expect it to last at least 30 years if I keep it hangared, at which
time it should be removed to inspect the structure. I have seen
picture of Emeraudes being recovered and the wood rot was enough to
scare me. These were planes that spent their life outside - in
England, no less.

Because the Imron is not susceptible to solvents, as is a doped
finish, I expect the removal of the old fabric will be more of a
chore. Had I used fiberglass cloth and resin, it may have been
impossible to remove without damaging the structure. When it's time to
recover, whoever does the job (I don't expect to be doing such things
when I'm 87) will probably be wishing I had used dope.

Rich S.

[Morgans[_2_]]

> wrote

Thanks, Jim - but the Emeraude was covered (all surfaces) with 2.6 oz
Dacron, sealed with Poly-brush, UV'd with Poly-spray, then color
coated with Imron and the trim was clear coated.

Sorry about the false suggestion.

It was another plane at Osh the year I saw yours that I was thinking of, I
guess.
--
Jim in NC

[Ed Sullivan]

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:50:37 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>
> wrote
>
>Thanks, Jim - but the Emeraude was covered (all surfaces) with 2.6 oz
>Dacron, sealed with Poly-brush, UV'd with Poly-spray, then color
>coated with Imron and the trim was clear coated.
>
>Sorry about the false suggestion.
>
>It was another plane at Osh the year I saw yours that I was thinking of, I
>guess.

Tony Bingelis' Emeraude was covered with Model airplane glass

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Ed Sullivan" > wrote
>
> Tony Bingelis' Emeraude was covered with Model airplane glass

I can't think of the guy's name, he passed a couple years ago, in his plane.
It was a pink GP-4, named cotton candy, IIRC.

Wasn't that one covered in model airplane glass, also?

I will not put down fabric and dope for covering plywood planes, but the
ones I have seen covered with light glass and resin are the slickest looking
wood planes I have ever seen. They look like well constructed and faired
fiberglass planes, with a mirror finish. Unbelievable, in my opinion.

I'm convinced if I build a wood covered plane, that is the route I will go.
--
Jim in NC

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
"Morgans" > wrote:

> "Ed Sullivan" > wrote
> >
> > Tony Bingelis' Emeraude was covered with Model airplane glass
>
> I can't think of the guy's name, he passed a couple years ago, in his plane.
> It was a pink GP-4, named cotton candy, IIRC.
>
> Wasn't that one covered in model airplane glass, also?
>
> I will not put down fabric and dope for covering plywood planes, but the
> ones I have seen covered with light glass and resin are the slickest looking
> wood planes I have ever seen. They look like well constructed and faired
> fiberglass planes, with a mirror finish. Unbelievable, in my opinion.
>
> I'm convinced if I build a wood covered plane, that is the route I will go.

You ought to see my and Roy Foxworthy's Johnson Rockets, then.
Plywood/ceconite/dope (all rubbed and polished)

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 08:25:49 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

>On Aug 5, 10:04*pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
>>
>> Rich Shankland's Emerald used glass, I believe. *Many Falcos go with glass.
>
>Thanks, Jim - but the Emeraude was covered (all surfaces) with 2.6 oz
>Dacron, sealed with Poly-brush, UV'd with Poly-spray, then color
>coated with Imron and the trim was clear coated. Since a good percent
>of the surface is plywood rather than open framework, I considered
>using 1.7 oz fabric on the ply. It would have made for a much more
>difficult job, with the extra seams and all; and wouldn't really have
>saved enough weight to go to the bother. Besides which, I'd rather
>have a seam on the leading edge, wrapped over the curve, doubled, and
>then taped. Using two weights of cloth would have meant an extra seam
>adjacent to the open bay and right out there in the airstream, trying
>to rip open.
>
>I expect it to last at least 30 years if I keep it hangared, at which
>time it should be removed to inspect the structure. I have seen
>picture of Emeraudes being recovered and the wood rot was enough to
>scare me. These were planes that spent their life outside - in
>England, no less.
>
>Because the Imron is not susceptible to solvents, as is a doped
>finish, I expect the removal of the old fabric will be more of a
>chore. Had I used fiberglass cloth and resin, it may have been
>impossible to remove without damaging the structure. When it's time to
>recover, whoever does the job (I don't expect to be doing such things
>when I'm 87) will probably be wishing I had used dope.
>
>Rich S.

Rich yours is the preferred method of covering ply as in the original
request. if you use polytone paint the surface remains infinitely
repairable.

even at 87 you'd be able to do the recover job (set that as one of
your life's targets :-) )
if you use MEK as the solvent the finish and the fabric can be taken
back to the wood quite easily.

in fact for polyfiber finishes MEK is a damned handy tool. you can
wipe the finish back to the fabric in a flash even after 20 years.
you can reapply it quite easily back to a concourse finish.

for the original poster, ignore the other suggestions, what Rich has
described is the optimum way of achieving a manageable long life
finish. using dope is a dumb idea.

(of course there will be a hundred posts disagreeing with this :-) )

Stealth Pilot
(who will go to hell for using enamel paint in repairs before
realising that it was going over polytone ..aaargh!)

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote

> You ought to see my and Roy Foxworthy's Johnson Rockets, then.
> Plywood/ceconite/dope (all rubbed and polished)

If I did, what would I observe?
--
Jim in NC

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
"Morgans" > wrote:

> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote
>
> > You ought to see my and Roy Foxworthy's Johnson Rockets, then.
> > Plywood/ceconite/dope (all rubbed and polished)
>
> If I did, what would I observe?

A finish that competes with the heavier glass/epoxy you recommend.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Tom Wait]

"Morgans" > wrote
>
> I can't think of the guy's name, he passed a couple years ago, in his
plane.
> It was a pink GP-4, named cotton candy, IIRC.

It ws Jackie Yoder. He died in May 2002 flying Cotton Candy. It doesn't seem
like 6 years ago. His brother was with him and died in the crash also. Jack
was a great guy. Funny you should mention him, I was thinking about him last
Friday while watching departures from Homebuilt Headquarters. I don't know
if the plane was covered with glass, but it was a nice aircraft. There is an
article in the SA archives about it.

> I will not put down fabric and dope for covering plywood planes, but the
> ones I have seen covered with light glass and resin are the slickest
looking
> wood planes I have ever seen. They look like well constructed and faired
> fiberglass planes, with a mirror finish. Unbelievable, in my opinion.
>
> I'm convinced if I build a wood covered plane, that is the route I will
go.


I agree. The glass cloth eliminates the need for aluminum bearing paint (
poly spray)to protect dacron from UV.

Tom

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Tom Wait" > wrote

> It ws Jackie Yoder. He died in May 2002 flying Cotton Candy. It doesn't
> seem
> like 6 years ago. His brother was with him and died in the crash also.
> Jack
> was a great guy.

Yep. I couldn't think of the name. Nice guy. I talked to him for quite a
while, I think at OSH that year. That was a beautiful plane, and he was
happy to talk to all about it, and what changes (numerous) he had made to
it.

That color he chose was sooo outrageous, and had to grow on you, but grow on
you it did, at least for me.
--
Jim in NC