IPC with a CFI?

[[email protected]]

I had a discussion with a CFI (not CFII) today. He indicated that it
would be legal for him to give me an Instrument Competency Check. I
was under the impression that it required a CFII.

I'm looking at 61.57 and it says
(2)The instrument proficiency check
mist be given by -
(iv) an authorized instructor

Have I been wrong all these years?

Thank You,
Charlie

[Pietro]

wrote in news:4023f7be-cf2e-4830-8e7b-
:

> I had a discussion with a CFI (not CFII) today. He indicated that
it
> would be legal for him to give me an Instrument Competency Check. I
> was under the impression that it required a CFII.
>
> I'm looking at 61.57 and it says
> (2)The instrument proficiency check
> mist be given by -
> (iv) an authorized instructor
>
Very carefully read the first paragraph of 61.193.

--

[gatt[_5_]]

Pietro wrote:
> wrote in news:4023f7be-cf2e-4830-8e7b-
> :
>
>
>>I had a discussion with a CFI (not CFII) today. He indicated that
>
> it
>
>>would be legal for him to give me an Instrument Competency Check. I
>>was under the impression that it required a CFII.
>>
>>I'm looking at 61.57 and it says
>>(2)The instrument proficiency check
>>mist be given by -
>>(iv) an authorized instructor
>>
>
> Very carefully read the first paragraph of 61.193.

A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is authorized within
the limitations of that person's flight instructor certificate and
ratings to give training and endorsements...

If one assumes that he can do it because the "and ratings" bit, it would
also follow that he can provide instrument instruction, which he can't.
So the answer would have to be No, a CFI can't give an ICC.

61.195(c) says: "A flight instructor who provides instrument flight
training for the issueance fo an instrument rating...must hold an
instrument rating..."

Doesn't say anything regarding the proficiency check, but, that's a hell
of a small loophole to try to fly through and a questionable CFI decision.

Also see 61.57(d)

=c

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2008-08-07 00:00:09 -0700, Pietro > said:

> wrote in news:4023f7be-cf2e-4830-8e7b-
> :
>
>> I had a discussion with a CFI (not CFII) today. He indicated that
> it
>> would be legal for him to give me an Instrument Competency Check. I
>> was under the impression that it required a CFII.
>>
>> I'm looking at 61.57 and it says
>> (2)The instrument proficiency check
>> mist be given by -
>> (iv) an authorized instructor
>>
> Very carefully read the first paragraph of 61.193.

From the Part 61 FAQ:

QUESTION: The Pilot Proficiency Award Program covered by Advisory
Circular 61-91H requires as stated in paragraph (7)(a)(3), one hour of
instrument training in an airplane, FAA-approved aircraft simulator, or
training device as stated in paragraph (7)(a)(3). Who is authorized to
conduct that instrument training? Does it have to be a CFI-IA? Or can
it be a CFI-A (no IA)?
ANSWER: Ref. ¤61.56(e) and ¤61.195(c); A flight review required by
¤61.56(c) is different than the ÒInstrument Proficiency CheckÓ of
¤61.57(d). They are two separate requirements. The flight instructor
who administers the Instrument Proficiency Check of ¤61.57(d) must hold
a CFII-Airplane rating AND as per ¤61.195(c), the flight instructor
must Ò. . . hold an instrument rating on his or her flight instructor
certificate and pilot certificate that is appropriate to the category
and class of aircraft in which instrument training is being provided.Ó
{Q&A-249}

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2008-08-07 00:00:09 -0700, Pietro > said:

> wrote in news:4023f7be-cf2e-4830-8e7b-
> :
>
>> I had a discussion with a CFI (not CFII) today. He indicated that
> it
>> would be legal for him to give me an Instrument Competency Check. I
>> was under the impression that it required a CFII.
>>
>> I'm looking at 61.57 and it says
>> (2)The instrument proficiency check
>> mist be given by -
>> (iv) an authorized instructor
>>
> Very carefully read the first paragraph of 61.193.

The reasoning behind the FAA not specifying that it must be a CFII is
found in this question in the Part 61 FAQ:

QUESTION: Is it true that a CFI giving an endorsement for an Instrument
Proficiency Check must have an instrument rating (CFII) on his/her
flight instructor certificate? I can't seem to find anything in the
current Part 61 that states that an Instrument Proficiency Check
endorsement requires a CFII. The ¤61.57(d)(2)(iv) requires an
Òauthorized instructorÓ. The definition of "authorized instructor" now
seems to come from FAR 61.193 (Flight Instructor Privileges) and FAR
61.195 (Flight Instructor Limitations). The only reference to a
requirement for a CFII that I can find is in FAR 61.195(c).
ANSWER: Ref. ¤61.57(d)(2)(iv) and ¤61.193; A flight instructor who
performs an instrument proficiency check, as required by ¤61.57(d),
must hold the appropriate instrument rating for the category and class
of aircraft that the instrument proficiency check is being conducted
in. As per ¤61.193, it states in pertinent part, Ò. . . A person who
holds a flight instructor certificate is authorized within the
limitations of that person's flight instructor certificate and ratings
to give training and endorsements that are required for, and relate to:
* * * * *
(f) An instrument rating;
A flight instructor who does not hold an instrument rating on their
flight instructor certificate that is appropriate to the category and
class of aircraft that the instrument proficiency check is being
conducted in is NOT authorized to conduct the instrument proficiency
check.
The term Òauthorized instructorÓ was intentionally used in ¤61.57(d)
because authorization to conduct an instrument proficiency check is not
limited to a CFII. A Ground Instructor Certificate - Instrument Rating
is also an Òauthorized instructorÓ and is authorized to give the
instrument proficiency check in an approved flight training device.
Also, a Part 142 training center instructor, who may or may not hold
any certificate or ratings, can be an Òauthorized instructorÓ who may
give the instrument proficiency check that is performed under an
approved Part 142 training program in an approved flight simulator, in
accordance with a Part 142 approved training program. Another example,
a pilot who holds a Letter of Operational Authority (LOOA) may give the
endorsements for the instrument proficiency check to a holder of a
Letter of Authorization (LOA).) Holders of an LOOA give training for
the endorsement for the Letter of Authorization (LOA) allowing a pilot
to act as pilot in command in surplus military turbine or piston
powered airplane, in accordance with FAA Order 8700.1, Chapter 32.
However, in this case, the holderÕs Letter of Operational Authority
(LOOA) must specifically state this authority to give the endorsements
for the instrument proficiency check. And so the rulemaking team that
drafted the new Part 61
FAQs Part 61 With Chg #18, 12/05/2002 All Q&AÕs from #1 through #540
decided on merely stating . . . An authorized flight instructor . . .Ó
But notice in ¤61.57(d)(2)(v), we also included Ò. . . A person
approved by the Administrator to conduct instrument practical tests.Ó
{Q&A-315}
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor