cabin pressure and health

[[email protected]]

Boeing funded a clinical trial to actually determine the effects of
being at an 8000 foot altitude for extended periods, and the results
were published last year in the New England Journal of Medicine. It's
an interesting read: here's the URL Many peer reviewed journal
articles require membership in an appropriate group (usually involving
fees) to be read: this one is freely available.,


http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/357/1/18

For what it's worth, the number of subjects involved, and the
inclusion/exclusion criteria were fairly limited ( a couple of
hundred people, not nearly enough to uncover rare but important
conditions that could impact health) but the population probably is
representative of those holding Class III medicals or better. It's
fair to say nothing surprising was uncovered, except to learn that
such a study had not been done long ago.

It reminds me of the old adage that we should drink 8 glasses of water
a day. That's something that has actually been debunked in a recent
study.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

wrote in news:dec3c7c0-b8e7-496f-a525-36a6a6a33410
@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

> Boeing funded a clinical trial to actually determine the effects of
> being at an 8000 foot altitude for extended periods, and the results
> were published last year in the New England Journal of Medicine. It's
> an interesting read: here's the URL Many peer reviewed journal
> articles require membership in an appropriate group (usually involving
> fees) to be read: this one is freely available.,
>
>
> http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/357/1/18
>
> For what it's worth, the number of subjects involved, and the
> inclusion/exclusion criteria were fairly limited ( a couple of
> hundred people, not nearly enough to uncover rare but important
> conditions that could impact health) but the population probably is
> representative of those holding Class III medicals or better. It's
> fair to say nothing surprising was uncovered, except to learn that
> such a study had not been done long ago.
>
> It reminds me of the old adage that we should drink 8 glasses of water
> a day. That's something that has actually been debunked in a recent
> study.
>
>
>

Thin air and even radiation exposure are insignificant in comparison to
the problems associated with engine oil seeping into the aircon. Some
airplanes are a lot worse than others, the older Rolls Royce powered
757s and TriStars being the worst with the Lycoming Powered Bae 146s not
far behind. Almost all have the problem to some extent or another.
All jet oils, particularly Mobil, contain huge amounts of nasties such
as organo-phosphates which affect the central nervous system and are
extremely hard to get rid of. Almost all airliners have this problem,
however, and every time you fly on one you get a certain amount of this
crap in you.
If you ever get on an airliner and you get a certain sour "smelly
socks" smell, that means there's an unusually high concentration and
that the engine seals arent doing their job. If you get enough in your
system during a flight, you'll probably have runny eyes and irritation
in your throat and sinuses. If you get a high enough dose in one flight,
you'll also have a nice tingly headache right at the top of your skull.
A major dose will bring about a night wither on, or kneeling in front of
the toilet...
It's a huge problem that the airlines and manufacturers are keeping as
quiet as possible about because of the huge liability exposure they
have. The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older turboprops
used this system as well as a small number of jets. The 787 will have
this system.



Bertie

[Robert Moore]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote
> The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
> and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older turboprops
> used this system as well as a small number of jets. The 787 will have
> this system.

The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the Turbochargers
most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine which then turned
a fresh outside air compressor.

Bob Moore
17 years in B-707s

[Vaughn Simon]

> wrote in message
...
> Boeing funded a clinical trial to actually determine the effects of
> being at an 8000 foot altitude for extended periods...

The airlines do nothing to warn folks that they will be subjected to high
altitude conditions on a flight. As a result, There is no doubt that there are
people (lung conditions, elderly etc.) riding in airliners without supplemental
oxygen who shouldn't be allowed to do so.

My wife has a lung condition. At sea level she barely maintains a reliable 90%
(the accepted minimum) oxygen saturation, in an airliner I have seen her "sats"
dip into the 70's. The airlines seem to go out of their way to make it
difficult and expensive for passengers to order supplemental oxygen. The normal
charge is $100 per flight segment (typical $400 for a round trip flight), and
each airline has a different convoluted and uncertain bureaucracy for ordering
oxygen.


--
Vaughn

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive
your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating
in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try
a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you
need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program.
You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook
Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use
http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time
$3.95 setup fee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Will poofread for food.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Robert Moore > wrote in
5.205:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>> The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>> and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older turboprops
>> used this system as well as a small number of jets. The 787 will have
>> this system.
>
> The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the Turbochargers
> most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine which then turned
> a fresh outside air compressor.
>
Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you didn't
have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the RB-211 is a
complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an oil tight engine....




Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Nomen Nescio > wrote in
:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: Bertie the Bunyip >
>
>>If you get a high enough dose in one flight,
>>you'll also have a nice tingly headache right at the top of your skull.
>
> And all these years I thought it was from the screaming little *******
> a few rows behind me.
>

Oh god, dont mention the war. I had to position commercial earlier in the
week and had one ahead, one next to and one behind.


Bertie
>

[James]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Robert Moore > wrote in
> 5.205:
>
>
>>Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>
>>>The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>>and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older turboprops
>>>used this system as well as a small number of jets. The 787 will have
>>>this system.
>>
>>The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the Turbochargers
>>most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine which then turned
>>a fresh outside air compressor.
>>
>
> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you didn't
> have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the RB-211 is a
> complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an oil tight engine....
>
Thats why you never change the oil in a british engine, you just change
the filter every 6000 miles, with the leak and replace of the oil, oil
changes are just a waste of time.


>
>
> Bertie

[James]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

> Robert Moore > wrote in
> 5.205:
>
>
>>Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>
>>>The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>>and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older turboprops
>>>used this system as well as a small number of jets. The 787 will have
>>>this system.
>>
>>The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the Turbochargers
>>most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine which then turned
>>a fresh outside air compressor.
>>
>
> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you didn't
> have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the RB-211 is a
> complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an oil tight engine....
>
>
>
>
> Bertie
We should be thankfull that the british did not supply the electrics,
AKA Lucas the prince of darkness, otherwise the cabin would be full of
smoke, and nothing would work!

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

James > wrote in
:

>
>
> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Robert Moore > wrote in
>> 5.205:
>>
>>
>>>Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>>
>>>>The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>>>and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older
>>>>turboprops used this system as well as a small number of jets. The
>>>>787 will have this system.
>>>
>>>The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the
>>>Turbochargers most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine
>>>which then turned a fresh outside air compressor.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you
>> didn't have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
>> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the
>> RB-211 is a complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an
>> oil tight engine....
>>
> Thats why you never change the oil in a british engine, you just
> change the filter every 6000 miles, with the leak and replace of the
> oil, oil changes are just a waste of time.
>
>

True, and they actually don't change the oils in RB 211s either! That is
part of the problem. As jet oil ages it gets thinner and leaks more
easily, and it also gets smellier.




Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Aug 17, 10:48*am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> James > wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> >> Robert Moore > wrote in
> 5.205:
>
> >>>Bertie the Bunyip *wrote
>
> >>>>The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
> >>>>and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older
> >>>>turboprops used this system as well as a small number of jets. The
> >>>>787 will have this system. *
>
> >>>The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the
> >>>Turbochargers most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine
> >>>which then turned a fresh outside air compressor.
>
> >> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you
> >> didn't have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
> >> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the
> >> RB-211 is a complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an
> >> oil tight engine....
>
> > Thats why you never change the oil in a british engine, *you just
> > change the filter every 6000 miles, with the leak and replace of the
> > oil, oil changes are just a waste of time.
>
> True, and they actually don't change the oils in RB 211s either! That is
> part of the problem. As jet oil ages it gets thinner and leaks more
> easily, and it also gets smellier.
>
> Bertie

Is there a link other than a common country between the engine makers
and Austin Healey cars? The AH I had positioned the distributor
exactly where water would splash when I drove through a puddle. There
was no need to put a top on that car, if it was raining it wouldn't go
anywhere anyhow. But it would leak! It was the car I owned that was
both the most trouble and the most fun to drive.

[Vaughn Simon]

> wrote in message
...

>Is there a link other than a common country between the engine makers
>and Austin Healey cars? The AH I had positioned the distributor
>exactly where water would splash when I drove through a puddle. There
>was no need to put a top on that car, if it was raining it wouldn't go
>anywhere anyhow. But it would leak! It was the car I owned that was
>both the most trouble and the most fun to drive.

And don't forget the joys of Lucas electrics! (The Prince of darkness)

Does Lucas make aircraft electrics?

Vaughn

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

wrote in
:

> On Aug 17, 10:48*am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> James > wrote
>> innews:8KCdnZwGw601sTXVnZ2dnUVZ_jGd
> :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> >> Robert Moore > wrote in
>> 5.205:
>>
>> >>>Bertie the Bunyip *wrote
>>
>> >>>>The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>> >>>>and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older
>> >>>>turboprops used this system as well as a small number of jets.
>> >>>>The 787 will have this system. *
>>
>> >>>The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the
>> >>>Turbochargers most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a
>> >>>turbine which then turned a fresh outside air compressor.
>>
>> >> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you
>> >> didn't have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
>> >> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the
>> >> RB-211 is a complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an
>> >> oil tight engine....
>>
>> > Thats why you never change the oil in a british engine, *you just
>> > change the filter every 6000 miles, with the leak and replace of
>> > the oil, oil changes are just a waste of time.
>>
>> True, and they actually don't change the oils in RB 211s either! That
>> is part of the problem. As jet oil ages it gets thinner and leaks
>> more easily, and it also gets smellier.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Is there a link other than a common country between the engine makers
> and Austin Healey cars? The AH I had positioned the distributor
> exactly where water would splash when I drove through a puddle. There
> was no need to put a top on that car, if it was raining it wouldn't go
> anywhere anyhow. But it would leak! It was the car I owned that was
> both the most trouble and the most fun to drive.
>
>

They're worth a lot of money now!
I got a rubber boot to go over the distributor on most of the brit cars
I owned. It did help a lot. Just had to replace the cap on my VW for the
same reason. Must be twenty years since moisture stopped a car of mine..


Bertie

[Flydive]

Vaughn Simon wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Is there a link other than a common country between the engine makers
>> and Austin Healey cars? The AH I had positioned the distributor
>> exactly where water would splash when I drove through a puddle. There
>> was no need to put a top on that car, if it was raining it wouldn't go
>> anywhere anyhow. But it would leak! It was the car I owned that was
>> both the most trouble and the most fun to drive.
>
> And don't forget the joys of Lucas electrics! (The Prince of darkness)
>
> Does Lucas make aircraft electrics?
>
> Vaughn
>
>

Oh yes, they do.

[Ken S. Tucker]

On Aug 16, 5:20 am, wrote:
> Boeing funded a clinical trial to actually determine the effects of
> being at an 8000 foot altitude for extended periods, and the results
> were published last year in the New England Journal of Medicine. It's
> an interesting read: here's the URL Many peer reviewed journal
> articles require membership in an appropriate group (usually involving
> fees) to be read: this one is freely available.,
>
> http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/357/1/18
>
> For what it's worth, the number of subjects involved, and the
> inclusion/exclusion criteria were fairly limited ( a couple of
> hundred people, not nearly enough to uncover rare but important
> conditions that could impact health) but the population probably is
> representative of those holding Class III medicals or better. It's
> fair to say nothing surprising was uncovered, except to learn that
> such a study had not been done long ago.
>
> It reminds me of the old adage that we should drink 8 glasses of water
> a day. That's something that has actually been debunked in a recent
> study.

Of the gazillion times I've flown, once I had a
problem equalizing ear drum pressure, that was
quite uncomfortable. I guess the *rate of change*
of barometrics is a subjective unknown, as it does
require a rate of adaptation.
Ken

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Ken S. Tucker" > wrote in news:1ba773f7-5205-45c8-
:

> On Aug 16, 5:20 am, wrote:
>> Boeing funded a clinical trial to actually determine the effects of
>> being at an 8000 foot altitude for extended periods, and the results
>> were published last year in the New England Journal of Medicine. It's
>> an interesting read: here's the URL Many peer reviewed journal
>> articles require membership in an appropriate group (usually involving
>> fees) to be read: this one is freely available.,
>>
>> http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/357/1/18
>>
>> For what it's worth, the number of subjects involved, and the
>> inclusion/exclusion criteria were fairly limited ( a couple of
>> hundred people, not nearly enough to uncover rare but important
>> conditions that could impact health) but the population probably is
>> representative of those holding Class III medicals or better. It's
>> fair to say nothing surprising was uncovered, except to learn that
>> such a study had not been done long ago.
>>
>> It reminds me of the old adage that we should drink 8 glasses of water
>> a day. That's something that has actually been debunked in a recent
>> study.
>
> Of the gazillion times I've flown, once I had a
> problem equalizing ear drum pressure,


Very little in your head to block the passage of air...


Bertie

[Gino Marchetti]

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote in news:9lXpk.5591
:

> And don't forget the joys of Lucas electrics! (The Prince of darkness)
>
> Does Lucas make aircraft electrics?

I believe they also make refrigerators, which is why the Brits drink warm
beer.

[Dakota]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>
> They're worth a lot of money now!
> I got a rubber boot to go over the distributor on most of the brit cars
> I owned. It did help a lot. Just had to replace the cap on my VW for the
> same reason. Must be twenty years since moisture stopped a car of mine..
>
>
> Bertie

You have a VW also?

Do you have to push it home as often as you do your motorcycle, or do you
let someone else work on it?

[Dakota]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> James > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Robert Moore > wrote in
>>> 5.205:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>>>
>>>>>The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>>>>and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older
>>>>>turboprops used this system as well as a small number of jets. The
>>>>>787 will have this system.
>>>>
>>>>The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the
>>>>Turbochargers most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine
>>>>which then turned a fresh outside air compressor.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you
>>> didn't have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
>>> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the
>>> RB-211 is a complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an
>>> oil tight engine....
>>>
>> Thats why you never change the oil in a british engine, you just
>> change the filter every 6000 miles, with the leak and replace of the
>> oil, oil changes are just a waste of time.
>>
>>
>
> True, and they actually don't change the oils in RB 211s either! That is
> part of the problem. As jet oil ages it gets thinner and leaks more
> easily, and it also gets smellier.
>
>
>
>
> Bertie

Much like the fluid on your brain.

[Dakota]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> Robert Moore > wrote in
> 5.205:
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>> The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>> and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older turboprops
>>> used this system as well as a small number of jets. The 787 will have
>>> this system.
>>
>> The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the Turbochargers
>> most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine which then turned
>> a fresh outside air compressor.
>>
> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you didn't
> have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the RB-211 is
> a
> complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an oil tight
> engine....
>
>
>
>
> Bertie

Damn, I wish they would have let you design it. It would have been perfect,
uh.

[Dakota]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>>
>
> Thin air and even radiation exposure are insignificant in comparison to
> the problems associated with engine oil seeping into the aircon. Some
> airplanes are a lot worse than others, the older Rolls Royce powered
> 757s and TriStars being the worst with the Lycoming Powered Bae 146s not
> far behind. Almost all have the problem to some extent or another.
> All jet oils, particularly Mobil, contain huge amounts of nasties such
> as organo-phosphates which affect the central nervous system and are
> extremely hard to get rid of. Almost all airliners have this problem,
> however, and every time you fly on one you get a certain amount of this
> crap in you.
> If you ever get on an airliner and you get a certain sour "smelly
> socks" smell, that means there's an unusually high concentration and
> that the engine seals arent doing their job. If you get enough in your
> system during a flight, you'll probably have runny eyes and irritation
> in your throat and sinuses. If you get a high enough dose in one flight,
> you'll also have a nice tingly headache right at the top of your skull.
> A major dose will bring about a night wither on, or kneeling in front of
> the toilet...
> It's a huge problem that the airlines and manufacturers are keeping as
> quiet as possible about because of the huge liability exposure they
> have. The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
> and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older turboprops
> used this system as well as a small number of jets. The 787 will have
> this system.
>
>
>
> Bertie

I'll forward this to all the airlines and let them know their pilots are
concerned enough to be posting to the world.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Dakota" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> They're worth a lot of money now!
>> I got a rubber boot to go over the distributor on most of the brit
>> cars I owned. It did help a lot. Just had to replace the cap on my VW
>> for the same reason. Must be twenty years since moisture stopped a
>> car of mine..
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> You have a VW also?
>
> Do you have to push it home as often as you do your motorcycle, or do
> you let someone else work on it?


Nope, work on it myself as much as possible.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Dakota" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:Lq4qk.21386$LF2.9216
@newsfe09.iad:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> James > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Robert Moore > wrote in
>>>> 5.205:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>>>>>and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older
>>>>>>turboprops used this system as well as a small number of jets. The
>>>>>>787 will have this system.
>>>>>
>>>>>The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the
>>>>>Turbochargers most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine
>>>>>which then turned a fresh outside air compressor.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you
>>>> didn't have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
>>>> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the
>>>> RB-211 is a complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an
>>>> oil tight engine....
>>>>
>>> Thats why you never change the oil in a british engine, you just
>>> change the filter every 6000 miles, with the leak and replace of the
>>> oil, oil changes are just a waste of time.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> True, and they actually don't change the oils in RB 211s either! That
is
>> part of the problem. As jet oil ages it gets thinner and leaks more
>> easily, and it also gets smellier.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Much like the fluid on your brain.


Awww, hurted feewins agian maxine?



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Dakota" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Robert Moore > wrote in
>> 5.205:
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>>> The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>>> and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older
>>>> turboprops used this system as well as a small number of jets. The
>>>> 787 will have this system.
>>>
>>> The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the
>>> Turbochargers most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine
>>> which then turned a fresh outside air compressor.
>>>
>> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you
>> didn't have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
>> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the
>> RB-211 is a
>> complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an oil tight
>> engine....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Damn, I wish they would have let you design it. It would have been
> perfect, uh.
>

Couldn't have done any worse...


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Dakota" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:pD4qk.21394$LF2.1415
@newsfe09.iad:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>
>>
>> Thin air and even radiation exposure are insignificant in comparison
to
>> the problems associated with engine oil seeping into the aircon. Some
>> airplanes are a lot worse than others, the older Rolls Royce powered
>> 757s and TriStars being the worst with the Lycoming Powered Bae 146s
not
>> far behind. Almost all have the problem to some extent or another.
>> All jet oils, particularly Mobil, contain huge amounts of nasties
such
>> as organo-phosphates which affect the central nervous system and are
>> extremely hard to get rid of. Almost all airliners have this problem,
>> however, and every time you fly on one you get a certain amount of
this
>> crap in you.
>> If you ever get on an airliner and you get a certain sour "smelly
>> socks" smell, that means there's an unusually high concentration and
>> that the engine seals arent doing their job. If you get enough in
your
>> system during a flight, you'll probably have runny eyes and
irritation
>> in your throat and sinuses. If you get a high enough dose in one
flight,
>> you'll also have a nice tingly headache right at the top of your
skull.
>> A major dose will bring about a night wither on, or kneeling in front
of
>> the toilet...
>> It's a huge problem that the airlines and manufacturers are keeping
as
>> quiet as possible about because of the huge liability exposure they
>> have. The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven
pressurisation
>> and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older turboprops
>> used this system as well as a small number of jets. The 787 will have
>> this system.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I'll forward this to all the airlines and let them know their pilots
are
> concerned enough to be posting to the world.
>

That might help, you never know.


Bertie

[DanO]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Dakota" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Robert Moore > wrote in
>>> 5.205:
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>>>> The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>>>> and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older
>>>>> turboprops used this system as well as a small number of jets. The
>>>>> 787 will have this system.
>>>>
>>>> The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the
>>>> Turbochargers most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine
>>>> which then turned a fresh outside air compressor.
>>>>
>>> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you
>>> didn't have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
>>> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the
>>> RB-211 is a
>>> complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an oil tight
>>> engine....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Damn, I wish they would have let you design it. It would have been
>> perfect, uh.
>>
>
> Couldn't have done any worse...
>
>
> Bertie

Yeah, lamers like you are usually of such an opinion.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"DanO" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:B15qk.21682$LF2.732
@newsfe09.iad:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Dakota" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Robert Moore > wrote in
>>>> 5.205:
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>>>>> The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>>>>> and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older
>>>>>> turboprops used this system as well as a small number of jets.
The
>>>>>> 787 will have this system.
>>>>>
>>>>> The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the
>>>>> Turbochargers most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a
turbine
>>>>> which then turned a fresh outside air compressor.
>>>>>
>>>> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you
>>>> didn't have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
>>>> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the
>>>> RB-211 is a
>>>> complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an oil tight
>>>> engine....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> Damn, I wish they would have let you design it. It would have been
>>> perfect, uh.
>>>
>>
>> Couldn't have done any worse...
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Yeah, lamers like you are usually of such an opinion.
>

Oh do tell us your take on labyrinth seals then, wannabe boi.


Bertie

[DanO]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Yeah, lamers like you are usually of such an opinion.
>>
>
> Oh do tell us your take on labyrinth seals then, wannabe boi.
>
>
> Bertie

I'm not the one claiming to be the whiz kid lamer, you are.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"DanO" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:hq5qk.27504$1N1.20982
@newsfe07.iad:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> Yeah, lamers like you are usually of such an opinion.
>>>
>>
>> Oh do tell us your take on labyrinth seals then, wannabe boi.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I'm not the one claiming to be the whiz kid lamer, you are.
>
>
>

I made no claim. You gave me an accolade and I merely conceded that you
were correct.


Fjukktard.

Bertie

[Peter Dohm]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Dakota" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Robert Moore > wrote in
>>> 5.205:
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>>>> The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>>>> and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older
>>>>> turboprops used this system as well as a small number of jets. The
>>>>> 787 will have this system.
>>>>
>>>> The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the
>>>> Turbochargers most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a turbine
>>>> which then turned a fresh outside air compressor.
>>>>
>>> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you
>>> didn't have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
>>> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the
>>> RB-211 is a
>>> complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an oil tight
>>> engine....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Damn, I wish they would have let you design it. It would have been
>> perfect, uh.
>>
>
> Couldn't have done any worse...
>
>
> Bertie

From all that I heard, back when Eastern was flying L1011's, that is putting
it politely.

Peter

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Peter Dohm" > wrote in
:

> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Dakota" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Robert Moore > wrote in
>>>> 5.205:
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote
>>>>>> The next generation are eschewing bleed air driven pressurisation
>>>>>> and going to seperate supercharger systems. A lot of older
>>>>>> turboprops used this system as well as a small number of jets.
>>>>>> The 787 will have this system.
>>>>>
>>>>> The B-707 had both Bleed Air and Turbochargers. We used the
>>>>> Turbochargers most of the time. An engine bleed line spun a
>>>>> turbine which then turned a fresh outside air compressor.
>>>>>
>>>> Yeah, that was the jet exception I had noted. You were lucky you
>>>> didn't have to breath the compresser section air in that thing!
>>>> The JT8 was OK AFAIK> There would have been some fumes, but the
>>>> RB-211 is a
>>>> complete piece of junk. The Brits never could build an oil tight
>>>> engine....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> Damn, I wish they would have let you design it. It would have been
>>> perfect, uh.
>>>
>>
>> Couldn't have done any worse...
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> From all that I heard, back when Eastern was flying L1011's, that is
> putting it politely.
>

Still plenty of airplanes flying around with RB 211s as well.

In fact, I've been on a few of Lufthansa's 146's and they reek of the
**** as well.



Bertie
>