Unmanned Gliders Seek Lift

[Burt Compton - Marfa]

From the AvWeb AvFlash news:

Unmanned Gliders To Seek Their Own Lift

"Automated on-board energy aware planning" is being developed by the
U.K.'s Roke Manor Research to allow autonomous gliders to find
naturally occurring lift and sustain unpowered or prolong powered
flight, according to a report in ElectronicsWeekly.com. Ultimately,
aircraft equipped with software and hardware that actively processes
video feeds of cloud conditions and surface type (cool grass, or hot
pavement) data would be processed along with other elements (models
assessing weather and predicting vertical air movement due to thermal
and orographic lift) to identify thermals and share that information
with similar aircraft nearby. With that information, a virtual and
real-time lift map could help produce waypoint sequences for use by
integrated flight management systems aboard the aircraft as they
hopscotch from lift-point to lift-point along a route.

The aircraft would literally be led to their required destination via
a route that applies all acquired information to avoid areas of sink
and exploit the best areas of lift between the departure point and
destination point. Current proposed applications for the developing
technology include extending the flight range of unmanned aerial
vehicles.

[Richard[_1_]]

On Aug 18, 6:38*am, Burt Compton - Marfa > wrote:
> From the AvWeb AvFlash news:
>
> Unmanned Gliders To Seek Their Own Lift
>
> "Automated on-board energy aware planning" is being developed by the
> U.K.'s Roke Manor Research to allow autonomous gliders to find
> naturally occurring lift and sustain unpowered or prolong powered
> flight, according to a report in ElectronicsWeekly.com. Ultimately,
> aircraft equipped with software and hardware that actively processes
> video feeds of cloud conditions and surface type (cool grass, or hot
> pavement) data would be processed along with other elements (models
> assessing weather and predicting vertical air movement due to thermal
> and orographic lift) to identify thermals and share that information
> with similar aircraft nearby. With that information, a virtual and
> real-time lift map could help produce waypoint sequences for use by
> integrated flight management systems aboard the aircraft as they
> hopscotch from lift-point to lift-point along a route.
>
> The aircraft would literally be led to their required destination via
> a route that applies all acquired information to avoid areas of sink
> and exploit the best areas of lift between the departure point and
> destination point. Current proposed applications for the developing
> technology include extending the flight range of unmanned aerial
> vehicles.

Burt,

Several college students from North Carolina State University showed
up at the Montague Cross Country Challege in June 2008 (A model cross
county competition). They had their own version of what you reported
above.

http://goosetech.homelinux.com/soaring/index.php

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Brad[_2_]]

Wonder if this is where we will see thermal sensing instruments
developed. Probably eventually trickle down into our cockpits someday.
Brad



On Aug 18, 6:57*am, Richard > wrote:
> On Aug 18, 6:38*am, Burt Compton - Marfa > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > From the AvWeb AvFlash news:
>
> > Unmanned Gliders To Seek Their Own Lift
>
> > "Automated on-board energy aware planning" is being developed by the
> > U.K.'s Roke Manor Research to allow autonomous gliders to find
> > naturally occurring lift and sustain unpowered or prolong powered
> > flight, according to a report in ElectronicsWeekly.com. Ultimately,
> > aircraft equipped with software and hardware that actively processes
> > video feeds of cloud conditions and surface type (cool grass, or hot
> > pavement) data would be processed along with other elements (models
> > assessing weather and predicting vertical air movement due to thermal
> > and orographic lift) to identify thermals and share that information
> > with similar aircraft nearby. With that information, a virtual and
> > real-time lift map could help produce waypoint sequences for use by
> > integrated flight management systems aboard the aircraft as they
> > hopscotch from lift-point to lift-point along a route.
>
> > The aircraft would literally be led to their required destination via
> > a route that applies all acquired information to avoid areas of sink
> > and exploit the best areas of lift between the departure point and
> > destination point. Current proposed applications for the developing
> > technology include extending the flight range of unmanned aerial
> > vehicles.
>
> Burt,
>
> Several college students from North Carolina State University showed
> up at the Montague Cross Country Challege in June 2008 (A model cross
> county competition). *They had their own version of what you reported
> above.
>
> http://goosetech.homelinux.com/soaring/index.php
>
> Richardwww.craggyaero.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[sisu1a]

On Aug 18, 7:17 am, Brad > wrote:
> Wonder if this is where we will see thermal sensing instruments
> developed. Probably eventually trickle down into our cockpits someday.
> Brad
>
> On Aug 18, 6:57 am, Richard > wrote:
>
> > On Aug 18, 6:38 am, Burt Compton - Marfa > wrote:
>
> > > From the AvWeb AvFlash news:
>
> > > Unmanned Gliders To Seek Their Own Lift
>
> > > "Automated on-board energy aware planning" is being developed by the
> > > U.K.'s Roke Manor Research to allow autonomous gliders to find
> > > naturally occurring lift and sustain unpowered or prolong powered
> > > flight, according to a report in ElectronicsWeekly.com. Ultimately,
> > > aircraft equipped with software and hardware that actively processes
> > > video feeds of cloud conditions and surface type (cool grass, or hot
> > > pavement) data would be processed along with other elements (models
> > > assessing weather and predicting vertical air movement due to thermal
> > > and orographic lift) to identify thermals and share that information
> > > with similar aircraft nearby. With that information, a virtual and
> > > real-time lift map could help produce waypoint sequences for use by
> > > integrated flight management systems aboard the aircraft as they
> > > hopscotch from lift-point to lift-point along a route.
>
> > > The aircraft would literally be led to their required destination via
> > > a route that applies all acquired information to avoid areas of sink
> > > and exploit the best areas of lift between the departure point and
> > > destination point. Current proposed applications for the developing
> > > technology include extending the flight range of unmanned aerial
> > > vehicles.
>
> > Burt,
>
> > Several college students from North Carolina State University showed
> > up at the Montague Cross Country Challege in June 2008 (A model cross
> > county competition). They had their own version of what you reported
> > above.
>
> >http://goosetech.homelinux.com/soaring/index.php
>
> > Richardwww.craggyaero.com-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

Boy, I don't like the sound of this. Bas enough we have to share open
sky with powered UAV's in ever increasing numbers, now the possibility
of sharing thermals too? Yikes. Mars is sounding better every day!

It would indeed yield the highly coveted 'thermal sniffer' (probably
the very instrument Johnson described in Kemp's video), but to me
would not at all be worth the price... (soaring with UAV's)

Violently Opposed,
-Paul

[kirk.stant]

On Aug 18, 10:41*am, sisu1a > wrote:
> On Aug 18, 7:17 am, Brad > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Wonder if this is where we will see thermal sensing instruments
> > developed. Probably eventually trickle down into our cockpits someday.
> > Brad
>
> > On Aug 18, 6:57 am, Richard > wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 18, 6:38 am, Burt Compton - Marfa > wrote:
>
> > > > From the AvWeb AvFlash news:
>
> > > > Unmanned Gliders To Seek Their Own Lift
>
> > > > "Automated on-board energy aware planning" is being developed by the
> > > > U.K.'s Roke Manor Research to allow autonomous gliders to find
> > > > naturally occurring lift and sustain unpowered or prolong powered
> > > > flight, according to a report in ElectronicsWeekly.com. Ultimately,
> > > > aircraft equipped with software and hardware that actively processes
> > > > video feeds of cloud conditions and surface type (cool grass, or hot
> > > > pavement) data would be processed along with other elements (models
> > > > assessing weather and predicting vertical air movement due to thermal
> > > > and orographic lift) to identify thermals and share that information
> > > > with similar aircraft nearby. With that information, a virtual and
> > > > real-time lift map could help produce waypoint sequences for use by
> > > > integrated flight management systems aboard the aircraft as they
> > > > hopscotch from lift-point to lift-point along a route.
>
> > > > The aircraft would literally be led to their required destination via
> > > > a route that applies all acquired information to avoid areas of sink
> > > > and exploit the best areas of lift between the departure point and
> > > > destination point. Current proposed applications for the developing
> > > > technology include extending the flight range of unmanned aerial
> > > > vehicles.
>
> > > Burt,
>
> > > Several college students from North Carolina State University showed
> > > up at the Montague Cross Country Challege in June 2008 (A model cross
> > > county competition). *They had their own version of what you reported
> > > above.
>
> > >http://goosetech.homelinux.com/soaring/index.php
>
> > > Richardwww.craggyaero.com-Hidequoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> Boy, I don't like the sound of this. Bas enough we have to share open
> sky with powered UAV's in ever increasing numbers, now the possibility
> of sharing thermals too? Yikes. Mars is sounding better every day!
>
> It would indeed yield the highly coveted 'thermal sniffer' (probably
> the very instrument Johnson described in Kemp's video), but to me
> would not at all be worth the price... (soaring with UAV's)
>
> Violently Opposed,
> -Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What would be wrong with sharing a thermal with a UAV? We already
share them with birds, cornstalks, plastic bags, and the occasional
airliner - to say nothing of random 2-33s flown by student pilots,
intently staring at their non-compensated mechanical vario for any
sign of lift! That almost qualifies as a UAV itself!

More thermal markers, too.

I think it would be cool - and the UAV would probably have better
thermalling etiquette than a lot of pilots out there...

BTW, I bet if you had a transponder, the UAV would be programmed to
avoid you like the plague!

Kirk
66

[bumper]

"kirk.stant" > wrote in message
...

BTW, I bet if you had a transponder, the UAV would be programmed to
avoid you like the plague!

Kirk
66



Oh boy, a whole new game! Hunt down the soaring UAV and "bump" it out of the
thermal (g).

bumper
zz

[Eric Greenwell]

bumper wrote:
>> "kirk.stant" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> BTW, I bet if you had a transponder, the UAV would be programmed to
>> avoid you like the plague!
>
> Oh boy, a whole new game! Hunt down the soaring UAV and "bump" it out of the
> thermal (g).

Good idea: get a PCAS unit like the Zaon MRX and use it to find UAVs,
grab it's thermal while it leaves to find the next one! In fact, a UAV
could be considered a remote thermal sensing instrument.

How about carrying small one folded up in the glider? When the soaring
gets tough, you launch it to help you find thermals. It could carry a
Spot so you could find it later it was unable to return home on it's
own. The glider could be carried in a tube under the wing or on top of
the fuselage, or inside the fuselage with doors like a motor glider.

Or ... Forget the transponder: just have Spot send text messages to your
cell phone, so you know where the UAV is. FLARM is another way the UAVs
could be avoided, and eventually they will all use ADS-B.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Frank Whiteley]

On Aug 18, 10:37*am, "bumper" > wrote:
> "kirk.stant" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> BTW, I bet if you had a transponder, the UAV would be programmed to
> avoid you like the plague!
>
> Kirk
> 66
>
> Oh boy, a whole new game! Hunt down the soaring UAV and "bump" it out of the
> thermal (g).
>
> bumper
> zz

Not a glider, but.....Three points of view. Depends on the bumpee, I
suppose

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080729X01124&key=1

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/08/01/226321/ntsb-investigates-raytheon-cobra-crash-at-us-air-force.html

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/08/airforce_uav_academycrash_081208w/

[Lars Peder Hansen]

A UAV as thermal sniffer? Yikes!-Those things will probably be controlled by
software, written by humans -Forget it.

Instead, rely on million of years of systems testing, bring an eagle along
(would look awful when you open the doors to the Raptor Compartment!)

Seriously; paragliders do this with success:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri23mLIDuFM more pictures at
http://www.crandal.dk/louise.htm

Happy Soaring,
Lars Peder
DG-600/18 (non-raptor version, sofar), Denmark




"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
news:p0jqk.177$5C.123@trnddc02...
> bumper wrote:
>>> "kirk.stant" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> BTW, I bet if you had a transponder, the UAV would be programmed to
>>> avoid you like the plague!
>>
>> Oh boy, a whole new game! Hunt down the soaring UAV and "bump" it out of
>> the thermal (g).
>
> Good idea: get a PCAS unit like the Zaon MRX and use it to find UAVs, grab
> it's thermal while it leaves to find the next one! In fact, a UAV could be
> considered a remote thermal sensing instrument.
>
> How about carrying small one folded up in the glider? When the soaring
> gets tough, you launch it to help you find thermals. It could carry a Spot
> so you could find it later it was unable to return home on it's own. The
> glider could be carried in a tube under the wing or on top of the
> fuselage, or inside the fuselage with doors like a motor glider.
>
> Or ... Forget the transponder: just have Spot send text messages to your
> cell phone, so you know where the UAV is. FLARM is another way the UAVs
> could be avoided, and eventually they will all use ADS-B.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> * Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more
>
> * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

Put the whole kit and kaboodle in the glider, send it around the course
while you stay in the club's bar, and then go out and catch the wingtip
when it lands. Pretend you flew it and turn the flight in to the online
soaring contest -- that is unless an FAA representative is there and
notices the alcohol on your breath, but you can explain the situation to
him and turn the flight in later.

At 18:16 18 August 2008, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>bumper wrote:
>>> "kirk.stant" wrote in message
>>>
...
>>>
>>> BTW, I bet if you had a transponder, the UAV would be programmed to
>>> avoid you like the plague!
>>
>> Oh boy, a whole new game! Hunt down the soaring UAV and "bump" it out
of
>the
>> thermal (g).
>
>Good idea: get a PCAS unit like the Zaon MRX and use it to find UAVs,
>grab it's thermal while it leaves to find the next one! In fact, a UAV
>could be considered a remote thermal sensing instrument.
>
>How about carrying small one folded up in the glider? When the soaring
>gets tough, you launch it to help you find thermals. It could carry a
>Spot so you could find it later it was unable to return home on it's
>own. The glider could be carried in a tube under the wing or on top of
>the fuselage, or inside the fuselage with doors like a motor glider.
>
>Or ... Forget the transponder: just have Spot send text messages to your

>cell phone, so you know where the UAV is. FLARM is another way the UAVs
>could be avoided, and eventually they will all use ADS-B.
>
>--
>Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
>* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
>* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more
>
>* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at
www.motorglider.org
>

[Brad[_2_]]

better yet.............why doesn't the govt hire us sailplane pilots
to keep our eyes out for the bad guys..................whomever they
may be at the moment.

I've called in fires and other strange things I've seen in the
backwood before..............heck, maybe they'll even pay for my tow!

of course, if the "bad guys" catch on to possibly getting busted by an
orbiting sailplane, I guess we could face getting shot
at....................somthing I've wondered about occasionally when
I've heard gunshots while flying..........must've been to high to hear
the banjos playing tho...................

Brad


On Aug 18, 12:09*pm, Nyal Williams > wrote:
> Put the whole kit and kaboodle in the glider, send it around the course
> while you stay in the club's bar, and then go out and catch the wingtip
> when it lands. *Pretend you flew it and turn the flight in to the online
> soaring contest -- that is unless an FAA representative is there and
> notices the alcohol on your breath, but you can explain the situation to
> him and turn the flight in later.
>
> At 18:16 18 August 2008, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >bumper wrote:
> >>> "kirk.stant" *wrote in message
>
> ....
>
> >>> BTW, I bet if you had a transponder, the UAV would be programmed to
> >>> avoid you like the plague!
>
> >> Oh boy, a whole new game! Hunt down the soaring UAV and "bump" it out
> of
> >the
> >> thermal (g).
>
> >Good idea: get a PCAS unit like the Zaon MRX and use it to find UAVs,
> >grab it's thermal while it leaves to find the next one! In fact, a UAV
> >could be considered a remote thermal sensing instrument.
>
> >How about carrying small one folded up in the glider? When the soaring
> >gets tough, you launch it to help you find thermals. It could carry a
> >Spot so you could find it later it was unable to return home on it's
> >own. The glider could be carried in a tube under the wing or on top of
> >the fuselage, or inside the fuselage with doors like a motor glider.
>
> >Or ... Forget the transponder: just have Spot send text messages to your
> >cell phone, so you know where the UAV is. FLARM is another way the UAVs
> >could be avoided, and eventually they will all use ADS-B.
>
> >--
> >Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> >* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> >* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> > * ** New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more
>
> >* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Tom Gardner]

On Aug 18, 4:41*pm, sisu1a > wrote:
> Boy, I don't like the sound of this. Bas enough we have to share open
> sky with powered UAV's in ever increasing numbers, now the possibility
> of sharing thermals too? Yikes. Mars is sounding better every day!
>
> It would indeed yield the highly coveted 'thermal sniffer' (probably
> the very instrument Johnson described in Kemp's video), but to me
> would not at all be worth the price... (soaring with UAV's)
>
> Violently Opposed,
> -Paul

Once all UK gliders are equipped with Mode-S transponders,
the UAVs will be able to use gliders to act as thermal sniffers,
and will then come and join us in the thermal :)

[Rory Oconor]

At 18:44 18 August 2008, Lars Peder Hansen wrote:

>Instead, rely on million of years of systems testing, bring an eagle
along
>
>(would look awful when you open the doors to the Raptor Compartment!)
>

Should be quite simple to swap out a turbo and use the bay as a raptor
compartment. I can see that training a bird to return might require a lot
of work. Those fishing reels might have to be used for bait lines rather
than bug wipers.

Rory