Wheel pants

[Bob F.[_2_]]

OK people. It's your check ride day and you finish your groundwork. The examiner is coming out to you, approaches the airplane and says "I see there are no wheel pants on this airplane. What notations, and where, if any are required to fly this plane legally regarding this?" What do you say?

--
Regards, Bob F.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 15, 12:47*pm, "Bob F." > wrote:
> OK people. *It's your check ride day and you finish your groundwork. *The examiner is coming out to you, approaches the airplane and says "I see there are no wheel pants on this airplane. What notations, and where, if any are required to fly this plane legally regarding this?" *What do you say?

Was the plane type certified without wheel paints? If the paints came
with the plane than you may not be in compliance with your
certificate. If not then an A&P notation in the logs is required along
with the statement "W&B change negaligable" or a new W&B. I don't
recall if wheel paint R&R is covered in preventative maintenance but
if it is, and its your plane, you may be able to make the notation.

On my CFI checkride my instructor warned me that the PI might try to
take the cig lighter out of the plane. Its required equipment
apparently because it was certified with it.

-Robert

[Bob F.[_2_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...

On my CFI checkride my instructor warned me that the PI might try to
take the cig lighter out of the plane. Its required equipment
apparently because it was certified with it.

-Robert


Didn't weight too much did it? After all the airplane is now "one cigarette
lighter" ;-)
--
Regards, Bob F.

[Jim Logajan]

"Bob F." > wrote:
> OK people. It's your check ride day and you finish your groundwork.
> The examiner is coming out to you, approaches the airplane and says "I
> see there are no wheel pants on this airplane. What notations, and
> where, if any are required to fly this plane legally regarding this?"
> What do you say?

I suppose I'd show that the aircraft was configured per the manufacturer's
Operating Handbook valid at the time the airworthiness certificate was
issued.

Or I'd point out that if the wheel pant is missing, then we probably can't
get airborne since on an SGS 2-33 the closest thing to a wheel pant on the
main wheel is the fuselage, and if the fuselage is missing then I must have
really missed something important on the preflight. ;-)

Or I'd point out that I wont make a fuss about it if he wont, since I know
he was part owner and flew that glider in that condition for years. I
believe he is the only examiner in our area so I know he'd almost certainly
be my examiner when (or if) the time comes. :-))

[Bob F.[_2_]]

"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Bob F." > wrote:
>> OK people. It's your check ride day and you finish your groundwork.
>> The examiner is coming out to you, approaches the airplane and says "I
>> see there are no wheel pants on this airplane. What notations, and
>> where, if any are required to fly this plane legally regarding this?"
>> What do you say?
>
> I suppose I'd show that the aircraft was configured per the manufacturer's
> Operating Handbook valid at the time the airworthiness certificate was
> issued.
>
> Or I'd point out that if the wheel pant is missing, then we probably can't
> get airborne since on an SGS 2-33 the closest thing to a wheel pant on the
> main wheel is the fuselage, and if the fuselage is missing then I must
> have
> really missed something important on the preflight. ;-)
>
> Or I'd point out that I wont make a fuss about it if he wont, since I know
> he was part owner and flew that glider in that condition for years. I
> believe he is the only examiner in our area so I know he'd almost
> certainly
> be my examiner when (or if) the time comes. :-))


If you go down that road, the examiner may ask "Is a glider an airplane?".
Then what do you say?

--
Regards, Bob F.

[Jim Logajan]

"Bob F." > wrote:
> "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Bob F." > wrote:
>>> OK people. It's your check ride day and you finish your groundwork.
>>> The examiner is coming out to you, approaches the airplane and says
>>> "I see there are no wheel pants on this airplane. What notations,
>>> and where, if any are required to fly this plane legally regarding
>>> this?" What do you say?
>>
>> I suppose I'd show that the aircraft was configured per the
>> manufacturer's Operating Handbook valid at the time the airworthiness
>> certificate was issued.
>>
>> Or I'd point out that if the wheel pant is missing, then we probably
>> can't get airborne since on an SGS 2-33 the closest thing to a wheel
>> pant on the main wheel is the fuselage, and if the fuselage is
>> missing then I must have
>> really missed something important on the preflight. ;-)
>>
>> Or I'd point out that I wont make a fuss about it if he wont, since I
>> know he was part owner and flew that glider in that condition for
>> years. I believe he is the only examiner in our area so I know he'd
>> almost certainly
>> be my examiner when (or if) the time comes. :-))
>
>
> If you go down that road, the examiner may ask "Is a glider an
> airplane?". Then what do you say?

Hmmm - I wonder why he called the glider an airplane? ;-)

I'd have say I don't think it's an airplane, but on the other hand it has
only ever gotten airborne when attached to an engine. So it seems to
satisfy the definition of airplane during aerotow. :-)

Silliness aside, I'm curious whether the first paragraph I offered was
correct for an airplane. If not, what kind of answer were you expecting.

[Bob F.[_2_]]

"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
.. .

>>
>> If you go down that road, the examiner may ask "Is a glider an
>> airplane?". Then what do you say?
>
> Hmmm - I wonder why he called the glider an airplane? ;-)
>
> I'd have say I don't think it's an airplane, but on the other hand it has
> only ever gotten airborne when attached to an engine. So it seems to
> satisfy the definition of airplane during aerotow. :-)

Not by a long stretch. (pun intended) :-)

>
> Silliness aside, I'm curious whether the first paragraph I offered was
> correct for an airplane. If not, what kind of answer were you expecting.

I think the examiner would be looking for knowledge about associating an
engine with an airplane and then a discussion about, "category, class and
type" may ensue.

--
Regards, Bob F.

[Jim Logajan]

"Bob F." > wrote:
> "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>>
>>> If you go down that road, the examiner may ask "Is a glider an
>>> airplane?". Then what do you say?
>>
>> Hmmm - I wonder why he called the glider an airplane? ;-)
>>
>> I'd have say I don't think it's an airplane, but on the other hand it
>> has only ever gotten airborne when attached to an engine. So it seems
>> to satisfy the definition of airplane during aerotow. :-)
>
> Not by a long stretch. (pun intended) :-)

I knew it was a stretch - but what's a student to do when confronted with
tricky examiners?

>> Silliness aside, I'm curious whether the first paragraph I offered
>> was correct for an airplane. If not, what kind of answer were you
>> expecting.
>
> I think the examiner would be looking for knowledge about associating
> an engine with an airplane and then a discussion about, "category,
> class and type" may ensue.

Sorry, I was referring to this paragraph in response to your original post
regarding pantless airplane wheels (assuming the airplane never had any):

"I suppose I'd show that the aircraft was configured per the manufacturer's
Operating Handbook valid at the time the airworthiness certificate was
issued."

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>On my CFI checkride my instructor warned me that the PI might try to
>take the cig lighter out of the plane. Its required equipment
>apparently because it was certified with it.
>

Was the lighter listed as required equipment on the equipment list or TCDS?
My airplane was certified with 4 ashtrays, but they're not required equipment.


John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200809/1

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Bob F. wrote:
>OK people. It's your check ride day and you finish your groundwork. The examiner is coming out to you, approaches the airplane and says "I see there are no wheel pants on this airplane. What notations, and where, if any are required to fly this plane legally regarding this?" What do you say?
>

Airplanes are not required to have wheelpants. Many were sold without them.
I'd ask the examiner why he assumes there should be notations about the
absence of wheelpants.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200809/1

[Peter Dohm]

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote in message
news:8a3f3a3af9903@uwe...
> Bob F. wrote:
>>OK people. It's your check ride day and you finish your groundwork. The
>>examiner is coming out to you, approaches the airplane and says "I see
>>there are no wheel pants on this airplane. What notations, and where, if
>>any are required to fly this plane legally regarding this?" What do you
>>say?
>>
>
> Airplanes are not required to have wheelpants. Many were sold without
> them.
> I'd ask the examiner why he assumes there should be notations about the
> absence of wheelpants.
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
>
The 1980 Skyhawk and 1978 Cessna 152 handbooks, in the comprehensive list of
available equipment, both give the weights and stations of the wheel pants
if installed--with the a reminder note at the beginning of the section
regarding the specific list for the particular airplane.

I would presume that such a question would be asked to determine that the
applicant understands that there is a list of installed equipment included
for the particular airplane, which is to be carried in the airplane; and the
absence of wheel pants which were included on said list, and/or thier
carriage in the cargo area, must be made part of the weight and balance
calculations for the particular flight.

Clearly, therefore, the answer is that wheel pants are (or are not) part of
the basic empty weight shown of the equipment list for that aircraft; and
that the notations (if different) are shown on the weight and balance for
the flight.

Peter

[george]

On Sep 16, 9:24 am, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote:
> Bob F. wrote:
> >OK people. It's your check ride day and you finish your groundwork. The examiner is coming out to you, approaches the airplane and says "I see there are no wheel pants on this airplane. What notations, and where, if any are required to fly this plane legally regarding this?" What do you say?
>
> Airplanes are not required to have wheelpants. Many were sold without them.
> I'd ask the examiner why he assumes there should be notations about the
> absence of wheelpants.

So would I but only after I questioned his accreditation.

[Gezellig]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:58:51 -0700 (PDT), Robert M. Gary wrote:

>> OK people. *It's your check ride day and you finish your groundwork. *
>> The examiner is coming out to you, approaches the airplane and says
>> "I see there are no wheel pants on this airplane.

> Was the plane type certified without wheel paints? If the paints came
> with the plane than you may not be in compliance with your
> certificate. If not then an A&P notation in the logs is required along
> with the statement "W&B change negaligable" or a new W&B. I don't
> recall if wheel paint R&R is covered in preventative maintenance but
> if it is, and its your plane, you may be able to make the notation.

Paints or pants?

[Dave Doe]

In article >,
says...
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> On my CFI checkride my instructor warned me that the PI might try to
> take the cig lighter out of the plane. Its required equipment
> apparently because it was certified with it.
>
> -Robert
>
>
> Didn't weight too much did it? After all the airplane is now "one cigarette
> lighter" ;-)

Nice one Bob!

--
Duncan

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 15, 2:20*pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:

> * Was the lighter listed as required equipment on the equipment list or TCDS?
> My airplane was certified with 4 ashtrays, but they're not required equipment.

My CFI said lighters are on the equipment list. Sure enough when I
went home and looked at the equipment list of my airplane he was
right, its right there. To change the equipment list you need an log
entry.

-Robert