Do CAP members salute?

[Viperdoc[_5_]]

I have been at various airshows, flyins, etc where CAP cadets and adults
were present in uniform.

As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to salute
officers etc? Are members of the Air Force supposed to salute CAP members of
higher rank?

Walking around at these functions it is sometimes hard to tell who rates a
salute or not.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in
:

> I have been at various airshows, flyins, etc where CAP cadets and
> adults were present in uniform.
>
> As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to salute
> officers etc?


Yep


Bertie

[Viperdoc[_6_]]

The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be variable.
Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform, two Air Force and
one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a local disaster drill.

Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had a first
lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you, good day, or
something similar. He certainly would have been welcome to stand with us,
share ideas, and come up with some ways we could work with CAP and the
military to enhance our disaster preparedness.

However, he basically walked right past us, never said a word (or saluted),
and simply walked away. I have seen this on other occasions, and it gives
the impression that the CAP guys want to remain autonomous and not really
act as part of the Air Force.

Perhaps they are intimidated by actual members of the military, or perhaps
they were former enlisted that now wear an officer's uniform but feel
uncomfortable doing so.

It just strikes me that if we (CAP and the Air Force) worked more closely,
it would be to everyone's benefit.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in
:

> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform, two
> Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a local
> disaster drill.
>
> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had a
> first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you,
> good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been welcome
> to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we could
> work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster preparedness.
>


They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell are as
crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to be a
security gaurd in a mall.


Bertie

[Todd W. Deckard]

Agreed

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>
> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell are
> as
> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to be a
> security gaurd in a mall.
>
>
> Bertie

[Mike]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
> :
>
>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform, two
>> Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a local
>> disaster drill.
>>
>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had a
>> first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you,
>> good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been welcome
>> to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we could
>> work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster preparedness.
>>
>
>
> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell are
> as
> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to be a
> security gaurd in a mall.

This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag. Many
members were in the real air force and many have retired from the same. I
know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the real USAF. There's
also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun and could care less
about the pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of CAP is
mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not make one an
officer, although there are many who seem to think it does. For senior
members, there's also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms which
display no rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who don't
really want to pretend they are in the military.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
:

> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
>>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform,
>>> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
>>> local disaster drill.
>>>
>>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had a
>>> first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you,
>>> good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been welcome
>>> to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we could
>>> work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster preparedness.
>>>
>>
>>
>> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell
>> are as
>> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to
>> be a security gaurd in a mall.
>
> This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
> Many members were in the real air force and many have retired from the
> same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the real
> USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun
> and could care less about the pretend military gig. The pretend air
> force aspect of CAP is mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in
> dues does not make one an officer, although there are many who seem to
> think it does. For senior members, there's also the option of wearing
> CAP distinctive uniforms which display no rank insignia. That's the
> option preferred by those who don't really want to pretend they are in
> the military.
>
>

Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They are in
a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.


Bertie

[Mike]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
> :
>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
>>>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform,
>>>> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
>>>> local disaster drill.
>>>>
>>>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had a
>>>> first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you,
>>>> good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been welcome
>>>> to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we could
>>>> work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster preparedness.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell
>>> are as
>>> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to
>>> be a security gaurd in a mall.
>>
>> This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
>> Many members were in the real air force and many have retired from the
>> same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the real
>> USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun
>> and could care less about the pretend military gig. The pretend air
>> force aspect of CAP is mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in
>> dues does not make one an officer, although there are many who seem to
>> think it does. For senior members, there's also the option of wearing
>> CAP distinctive uniforms which display no rank insignia. That's the
>> option preferred by those who don't really want to pretend they are in
>> the military.
>>
>>
>
> Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They are in
> a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.

It all depends on the squadron you're in. Some are more into the flying
aspect and less into the pretend military aspect. Those tend to be the more
capable squadrons for air ops because they are less tolerant of pilots who
can't fly their thumb up their arse. At least in my observations. There's
lots of CAP pilots who don't ever fly unless it's on the CAP dime. As such
they may go 3-4 months without flying at all. Those types of guys aren't
well tolerated in squadrons that are more serious about the flying aspect.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
:

> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
>>>>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform,
>>>>> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
>>>>> local disaster drill.
>>>>>
>>>>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had
>>>>> a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are
>>>>> you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been
>>>>> welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways
>>>>> we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
>>>>> preparedness.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
>>>> personell are as
>>>> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified
>>>> to be a security gaurd in a mall.
>>>
>>> This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
>>> Many members were in the real air force and many have retired from
>>> the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the
>>> real USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like to fly and
>>> have fun and could care less about the pretend military gig. The
>>> pretend air force aspect of CAP is mostly for the cadets. Paying
>>> $70 per year in dues does not make one an officer, although there
>>> are many who seem to think it does. For senior members, there's
>>> also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms which display no
>>> rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who don't
>>> really want to pretend they are in the military.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They are
>> in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
>
> It all depends on the squadron you're in. Some are more into the
> flying aspect and less into the pretend military aspect. Those tend
> to be the more capable squadrons for air ops because they are less
> tolerant of pilots who can't fly their thumb up their arse. At least
> in my observations. There's lots of CAP pilots who don't ever fly
> unless it's on the CAP dime. As such they may go 3-4 months without
> flying at all. Those types of guys aren't well tolerated in squadrons
> that are more serious about the flying aspect.


Whatever turns them on. Not worth my time to even think about them,
mostly.

bertie

[Viperdoc[_3_]]

The concept of introducing kids to aviation is great, and except for perhaps
the Wings program, is one of the few routes out there. However, the whole
idea of seeing overweight yahoos yelling at a bunch of kids and making them
march around somehow doesn't fit. I've also seen them come into airport
restaurants with their too tight flight suits and swagger around like a
bunch of fighter jocks even though they flew in with a 172.

Yet, the goals are great, and their mission is important. It may be worth
another effort to get them working together again.

[[email protected]]

>They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell are as
>crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to be a
>security gaurd in a mall.

>Bertie

I hate to admit it but Bertie is right on with this one..

I tried the local CAP to be helpful, find and hopefully save a
life. Turned out they are a group of military wanna be's who have
control of a AirForce owned plane and dictate who can play in their
sandbox. First, that plane belongs to ALL of us, they have strick
rules like, " a member needs to be height/weight proportionate. The
state commander was a walking heart attack and at my first and only
SAREX, 90% of the group was 300 lbs +. So much for rules <G>. The last
straw was their overwhelming desire for protocal, If I am going to
risk my life looking for missing people and planes I would expect them
to respect the general population and give some leeway in the fact
that all volunteer citizans don't have time to go home, get dressed in
their approved monkey suits and meet at the office to start a search.
Hell by that time the party we are looking for are dead !!! And look
at their safety record... Dismal at best. If I am going to get killed
it sure as hell ain't gonna be by some uniform wearing low time
assholes..... Let's see. the Wyoming wing of the Cival Air Patrol has
in the last couple of years has killed 4 humans, destroyed two
perfectly good planes, both by total stupidity.. I have been flying
and have yet to even put a single scratch on anything but I seem to be
not qualified to fly their,-- oops, our planes. To be fair there is a
few good guys and gals in the CAP, but,,,,,,,,the VAST majority
though are as Bertie puts it " crazy as bedbugs"

rant off.

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:14:35 -0700 (PDT), " >
wrote:

> ... give some leeway in the fact
> that all volunteer citizans don't have time to go home, get dressed in
> their approved monkey suits and meet at the office to start a search.

It's been ~25 years since I've been a member, but I'll chime in with one point I
remember: CAP's accident insurance only covered you during searches when you
were in uniform. I flew my first ~225 hours in CAP airplanes (Bird Dog, L-16,
Citabria, L-18), and only wore my uniform when it was an actual CAP function.
By the time I quit, though, they were requiring everyone to wear a uniform
whenever flying a CAP airplane.

IIRC, CAP's "jumpsuit" outfit was intended to allow members to be "in uniform"
without requiring them to conform to the height/weight/haircut standards of the
Air Force duds.

Ron Wanttaja

[Mike]

> wrote in message
...
>
>
>
>>They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell are
>>as
>>crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to be a
>>security gaurd in a mall.
>
>>Bertie
>
> I hate to admit it but Bertie is right on with this one..
>
> I tried the local CAP to be helpful, find and hopefully save a
> life. Turned out they are a group of military wanna be's who have
> control of a AirForce owned plane and dictate who can play in their
> sandbox. First, that plane belongs to ALL of us, they have strick
> rules like, " a member needs to be height/weight proportionate. The
> state commander was a walking heart attack and at my first and only
> SAREX, 90% of the group was 300 lbs +. So much for rules <G>. The last
> straw was their overwhelming desire for protocal, If I am going to
> risk my life looking for missing people and planes I would expect them
> to respect the general population and give some leeway in the fact
> that all volunteer citizans don't have time to go home, get dressed in
> their approved monkey suits and meet at the office to start a search.
> Hell by that time the party we are looking for are dead !!! And look
> at their safety record... Dismal at best. If I am going to get killed
> it sure as hell ain't gonna be by some uniform wearing low time
> assholes..... Let's see. the Wyoming wing of the Cival Air Patrol has
> in the last couple of years has killed 4 humans, destroyed two
> perfectly good planes, both by total stupidity.. I have been flying
> and have yet to even put a single scratch on anything but I seem to be
> not qualified to fly their,-- oops, our planes. To be fair there is a
> few good guys and gals in the CAP, but,,,,,,,,the VAST majority
> though are as Bertie puts it " crazy as bedbugs"

On the other side of that coin there are those who expect to join CAP and
think they have a "right" to start flying missions the next day because they
have X number of ratings or whatever, or they are simply a low time pilot
who wants to fly CAP planes on the cheap, yet contribute nothing to the
organization. Or they simply join up one day and expect the organization to
bend around them rather than wanting to be part of a team. Many of them
wind up like you and quit. Good ridance, I say. CAP has over 500 aircraft
in their fleet, so it should come as no surprise that they are going to
auger one in now and then. The nature of the business involves some level
of risk. Of the crashes you mentioned, all involved very experienced and
competent pilots. Perhaps they did do something stupid, but if you think
you are smarter than they were, or a better pilot, you have the type of
attitude that often leads to a smoking crater at the end of your flying
career.

[Jim Logajan]

"Viperdoc" > wrote:
> I have been at various airshows, flyins, etc where CAP cadets and
> adults were present in uniform.
>
> As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to salute
> officers etc? Are members of the Air Force supposed to salute CAP
> members of higher rank?
>
> Walking around at these functions it is sometimes hard to tell who
> rates a salute or not.

Just salute the people who are paying the bills for the event. They are
almost certainly not in uniform.

"The great thing about being a civilian is that you outrank people like
generals and colonels." - line from an episode of "The Rockford Files".

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 20, 1:39*pm, "Viperdoc" > wrote:
> I have been at various airshows, flyins, etc where CAP cadets and adults
> were present in uniform.
>
> As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to salute
> officers etc? Are members of the Air Force supposed to salute CAP members of
> higher rank?
>
> Walking around at these functions it is sometimes hard to tell who rates a
> salute or not.

Suppose to. Remember that when you are on an AF base 90% of those on
the base have no idea what CAP is and assume you are active duty. The
uniform differences are very slight.

-Robert

[[email protected]]

On Sep 20, 6:50*pm, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell are
> >>as
> >>crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to be a
> >>security gaurd in a mall.
>
> >>Bertie
>
> > I hate to admit it but Bertie is right on with this one..
>
> > I tried the local CAP to be helpful, find and hopefully save a
> > life. * Turned out they are a group of military wanna be's who have
> > control of a AirForce owned plane and dictate who can play in their
> > sandbox. First, that plane belongs to ALL of us, they have strick
> > rules like, " a member needs to be height/weight proportionate. The
> > state commander was a walking heart attack and at my first and only
> > SAREX, 90% of the group was 300 lbs +. So much for rules <G>. The last
> > straw was their overwhelming desire for protocal, If I am going to
> > risk my life looking for missing people and planes I would expect them
> > to respect the general population and give some leeway in the fact
> > that all volunteer citizans don't have time to go home, get dressed in
> > their approved monkey suits and meet at the office to start a search.
> > Hell by that time the party we are looking for are dead !!! *And look
> > at their safety record... Dismal at best. If I am going to get killed
> > it sure as hell ain't gonna be by some uniform wearing low time
> > assholes..... Let's see. *the Wyoming wing of the Cival Air Patrol has
> > in the last couple of years has killed 4 humans, destroyed two
> > perfectly good planes, both by total stupidity.. I have been flying
> > and have yet to even put a single scratch on anything but I seem to be
> > not qualified to fly their,-- oops, our planes. To be fair there is a
> > few good guys and gals in the CAP, *but,,,,,,,,the VAST majority
> > though are as Bertie puts it " crazy as bedbugs"
>
risk. Of the crashes you mentioned, all involved very experienced and
> competent pilots. Perhaps they did do something stupid, but if you think
> you are smarter than they were, or a better pilot, you have the type of
> attitude that often leads to a smoking crater at the end of your flying
> career.-


You obviously are not very well informed. The first fatal accident in
N9928H was flown by Fletcher Anderson, who wrote a book on safe flying
and mountian flying. This was not his first accident either. While
flying through the Snake river canyon south of Jackson Wy he hit a
cable that crosses the river. A cable they use to measure the river
level. That said cable was 17.3 feet above the surface. The altitude
he was supposed to be at in that area was around 4000 feet higher,
competent ?? you better start smoking something better. The other CAP
pilot was supposably a CAP mountian fury course instructor who spun in
and took two other lives with him, and started a forest fire. That was
the only thing he did correctly though. They found the wreckage and
bodies by following the smoke. Competent ? highly improbable... I have
been flying almost 30 years, owned several planes and didn't join the
CAP for a free ride or to fly missions the next day. I have my own
plane and in fact my own airport, I don't need the CAP to leach off of
for my flying enjoyment, the vast majority of CAP members don't own an
aircraft. ! If you are going to defend the CAP flight safety record
you better inform yourself in a timely matter before making statements
like "very experienced and competent".

Cheers and tailwinds.

[Mike]

> wrote in message
...
On Sep 20, 6:50 pm, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > wrote in message
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >>They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell
> > >>are
> > >>as
> > >>crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to
> > >>be a
> > >>security gaurd in a mall.
> >
> > >>Bertie
> >
> > > I hate to admit it but Bertie is right on with this one..
> >
> > > I tried the local CAP to be helpful, find and hopefully save a
> > > life. Turned out they are a group of military wanna be's who have
> > > control of a AirForce owned plane and dictate who can play in their
> > > sandbox. First, that plane belongs to ALL of us, they have strick
> > > rules like, " a member needs to be height/weight proportionate. The
> > > state commander was a walking heart attack and at my first and only
> > > SAREX, 90% of the group was 300 lbs +. So much for rules <G>. The last
> > > straw was their overwhelming desire for protocal, If I am going to
> > > risk my life looking for missing people and planes I would expect them
> > > to respect the general population and give some leeway in the fact
> > > that all volunteer citizans don't have time to go home, get dressed in
> > > their approved monkey suits and meet at the office to start a search.
> > > Hell by that time the party we are looking for are dead !!! And look
> > > at their safety record... Dismal at best. If I am going to get killed
> > > it sure as hell ain't gonna be by some uniform wearing low time
> > > assholes..... Let's see. the Wyoming wing of the Cival Air Patrol has
> > > in the last couple of years has killed 4 humans, destroyed two
> > > perfectly good planes, both by total stupidity.. I have been flying
> > > and have yet to even put a single scratch on anything but I seem to be
> > > not qualified to fly their,-- oops, our planes. To be fair there is a
> > > few good guys and gals in the CAP, but,,,,,,,,the VAST majority
> > > though are as Bertie puts it " crazy as bedbugs"
> >
> risk. Of the crashes you mentioned, all involved very experienced and
> > competent pilots. Perhaps they did do something stupid, but if you
> > think
> > you are smarter than they were, or a better pilot, you have the type of
> > attitude that often leads to a smoking crater at the end of your flying
> > career.-
>
>
> You obviously are not very well informed. The first fatal accident in
> N9928H was flown by Fletcher Anderson, who wrote a book on safe flying
> and mountian flying. This was not his first accident either. While
> flying through the Snake river canyon south of Jackson Wy he hit a
> cable that crosses the river. A cable they use to measure the river
> level. That said cable was 17.3 feet above the surface. The altitude
> he was supposed to be at in that area was around 4000 feet higher,
> competent ?? you better start smoking something better. The other CAP
> pilot was supposably a CAP mountian fury course instructor who spun in
> and took two other lives with him, and started a forest fire. That was
> the only thing he did correctly though. They found the wreckage and
> bodies by following the smoke. Competent ? highly improbable... I have
> been flying almost 30 years, owned several planes and didn't join the
> CAP for a free ride or to fly missions the next day. I have my own
> plane and in fact my own airport, I don't need the CAP to leach off of
> for my flying enjoyment, the vast majority of CAP members don't own an
> aircraft. ! If you are going to defend the CAP flight safety record
> you better inform yourself in a timely matter before making statements
> like "very experienced and competent".
>
> Cheers and tailwinds.

I'm well aware of the details in both crashes. You obviously didn't read
what I wrote very closely. As I said, the people in question may have been
doing something stupid at the time, but guess what? The vast majority of
accidents are caused by pilot error, and the vast majority of those are
caused by doing something stupid at the time. However when you start
thinking you are more "competent" than they were and you would never do
something stupid yourself, is exactly the type of attitude that leads to a
lot of pilots' demise, and regardless of what you think, how many planes or
airports you have owned is irrelevant in that regard. As far as CAP goes, I
find it quite amusing that you try to blame the accidents on CAP. Had both
pilots been following CAP's rules, neither accident would have happened.
And as far as your short lived CAP tenure goes, I see a lot of your type
come and go. For whatever reason, you have a different expectation of CAP
and when CAP doesn't bend to your expectation, you quit and act as if your
quitting is to the detriment of CAP. I can assure you it isn't.

[Sylvain]

Mike wrote:
> come and go. For whatever reason, you have a different expectation of CAP
> and when CAP doesn't bend to your expectation, you quit and act as if your
> quitting is to the detriment of CAP. I can assure you it isn't.

Actually it is, otherwise why does the CAP keep whining about retention
rates of their members (which is abysmal for some reason...) ? dismissing
any complaint as you just did ("it couldn't possibly be something we did,
these are all quitters, good riddance to them") might not help...

Seriously there are great differences between each unit; if you want a
quick way to make up your mind about a specific one, there is an easy
little test: start a discussion about the good ol' 39-1 (you can find it
online). If a very animated conversation still goes on more than 10mn
later, don't just walk out: run. :-)

--Sylvain

[Mike]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
t...
> Mike wrote:
>> come and go. For whatever reason, you have a different expectation of
>> CAP
>> and when CAP doesn't bend to your expectation, you quit and act as if
>> your
>> quitting is to the detriment of CAP. I can assure you it isn't.
>
> Actually it is, otherwise why does the CAP keep whining about retention
> rates of their members (which is abysmal for some reason...) ? dismissing
> any complaint as you just did ("it couldn't possibly be something we did,
> these are all quitters, good riddance to them") might not help...

I take the opposite view. Do you really think CAP is going to miss a member
who is nothing more than a liability and wants to do nothing more than
complain? There's lots of CAP members that would not be missed if they
left, and CAP would be a better organization if they did, regardless of any
retention rates you can or can't quote. If CAP loses a member who has been
on board for many years and is a good contributor, then I might be
concerned.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 21, 10:17*am, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Sep 20, 6:50 pm, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > wrote in message
>
> > ....
>
> > > >>They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell
> > > >>are
> > > >>as
> > > >>crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to
> > > >>be a
> > > >>security gaurd in a mall.
>
> > > >>Bertie
>
> > > > I hate to admit it but Bertie is right on with this one..
>
> > > > I tried the local CAP to be helpful, find and hopefully save a
> > > > life. Turned out they are a group of military wanna be's who have
> > > > control of a AirForce owned plane and dictate who can play in their
> > > > sandbox. First, that plane belongs to ALL of us, they have strick
> > > > rules like, " a member needs to be height/weight proportionate. The
> > > > state commander was a walking heart attack and at my first and only
> > > > SAREX, 90% of the group was 300 lbs +. So much for rules <G>. The last
> > > > straw was their overwhelming desire for protocal, If I am going to
> > > > risk my life looking for missing people and planes I would expect them
> > > > to respect the general population and give some leeway in the fact
> > > > that all volunteer citizans don't have time to go home, get dressed in
> > > > their approved monkey suits and meet at the office to start a search.
> > > > Hell by that time the party we are looking for are dead !!! And look
> > > > at their safety record... Dismal at best. If I am going to get killed
> > > > it sure as hell ain't gonna be by some uniform wearing low time
> > > > assholes..... Let's see. the Wyoming wing of the Cival Air Patrol has
> > > > in the last couple of years has killed 4 humans, destroyed two
> > > > perfectly good planes, both by total stupidity.. I have been flying
> > > > and have yet to even put a single scratch on anything but I seem to be
> > > > not qualified to fly their,-- oops, our planes. To be fair there is a
> > > > few good guys and gals in the CAP, but,,,,,,,,the VAST majority
> > > > though are as Bertie puts it " crazy as bedbugs"
>
> > risk. *Of the crashes you mentioned, all involved very experienced and
> > > competent pilots. *Perhaps they did do something stupid, but if you
> > > think
> > > you are smarter than they were, or a better pilot, you have the type of
> > > attitude that often leads to a smoking crater at the end of your flying
> > > career.-
>
> > You obviously are not very well informed. *The first fatal accident in
> > N9928H was flown by Fletcher Anderson, who wrote a book on safe flying
> > and mountian flying. This was not his first accident either. While
> > flying through the Snake river canyon south of *Jackson Wy he hit a
> > cable that crosses the river. A cable they use to measure the river
> > level. That said cable was 17.3 feet above the surface. The altitude
> > he was supposed to be at *in that area was around 4000 feet higher,
> > competent ?? *you better start smoking something better. The other CAP
> > pilot was supposably a CAP mountian fury course instructor who spun in
> > and took two other lives with him, and started a forest fire. That was
> > the only thing he did correctly though. They found the wreckage and
> > bodies by following the smoke. Competent ? highly improbable... I have
> > been flying almost 30 years, owned several planes and didn't join the
> > CAP for a free ride or to fly missions the next day. I have my own
> > plane and in fact my own airport, I don't need the CAP to leach off of
> > for my flying enjoyment, the vast majority of CAP members don't own an
> > aircraft. ! * If you are going to defend the CAP flight safety record
> > you better inform yourself in a timely matter before making statements
> > like "very experienced and competent".
>
> > Cheers and tailwinds.
>
> I'm well aware of the details in both crashes. *You obviously didn't read
> what I wrote very closely. *As I said, the people in question may have been
> doing something stupid at the time, but guess what? *The vast majority of
> accidents are caused by pilot error, and the vast majority of those are
> caused by doing something stupid at the time. *However when you start
> thinking you are more "competent" than they were and you would never do
> something stupid yourself, is exactly the type of attitude that leads to a
> lot of pilots' demise, and regardless of what you think, how many planes or
> airports you have owned is irrelevant in that regard. *As far as CAP goes, I
> find it quite amusing that you try to blame the accidents on CAP. *Had both
> pilots been following CAP's rules, neither accident would have happened.
> And as far as your short lived CAP tenure goes, I see a lot of your type
> come and go. *For whatever reason, you have a different expectation of CAP
> and when CAP doesn't bend to your expectation, you quit and act as if your
> quitting is to the detriment of CAP. *I can assure you it isn't.- >
> - Show quoted text -

Let me set you straight.... First. Come on ol buddy, You are not
aware of the details of both crashes or as a intelligent human being
you would not have said those planes were flown by " experienced and
competent pilots.....I do blame the CAP for the crashes. If they had
their training and supervision in order the idiots who destroyed both
planes would have been grounded before they could waste taxpayers
dollars.

Second, I was told time and time again if you wreck a plane you pay
for the plane, this was straight from the wing commander. Guess
what. Mrs Anderson didn't repay the United States for her husbands
stupidy. The estate of the other bonehead didn't pay the United States
for his stupid act either.

Third and last, Your trying to belittle me is EXACLY why I and
thousands of other competent pilots left the CAP before one of your
type could kill us. There is a high probability you don't own a plane
of your own and fly the CAP plane at greatly reduced rate to enjoy
aviation. The rest of the taxpayers are funding your recreation...
This needs to STOP and I will keep expressing my opinion in the effort
of getting "COMPETENT AND EXPERIENCED" pilots in the CAP planes. .You
need to read this closely sport because those are your words,,,, not
mine. You keep driving at the point of my attitude will cause my
demise. You, my friend are not in touch with reality.

In closing I am not some keyboard pilot and I will identify myself...
I bet you don't have the balls to..


Ben Haas
Jackson Hole Wy
N801BH



Cheers............................................ ...

[Mick[_2_]]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
|I have been at various airshows, flyins, etc where CAP cadets and adults
| were present in uniform.
|
| As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to salute
| officers etc? Are members of the Air Force supposed to salute CAP members
of
| higher rank?
|
| Walking around at these functions it is sometimes hard to tell who rates a
| salute or not.
|
|

Aaahwwww, poor baby. Did someone forget to salute doctorjetpilot?

Maybe they recognized you.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| :
|
| > I have been at various airshows, flyins, etc where CAP cadets and
| > adults were present in uniform.
| >
| > As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to salute
| > officers etc?
|
|
| Yep
|
|
| Bertie

gotta link dikk ed.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
| The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be variable.
| Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform, two Air Force and
| one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a local disaster drill.
|
| Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had a first
| lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you, good day, or
| something similar. He certainly would have been welcome to stand with us,
| share ideas, and come up with some ways we could work with CAP and the
| military to enhance our disaster preparedness.
|
| However, he basically walked right past us, never said a word (or
saluted),
| and simply walked away. I have seen this on other occasions, and it gives
| the impression that the CAP guys want to remain autonomous and not really
| act as part of the Air Force.
|
| Perhaps they are intimidated by actual members of the military, or perhaps
| they were former enlisted that now wear an officer's uniform but feel
| uncomfortable doing so.
|
| It just strikes me that if we (CAP and the Air Force) worked more closely,
| it would be to everyone's benefit.
|
|

Stop whining and grow up.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| :
|
| > The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| > variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform, two
| > Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a local
| > disaster drill.
| >
| > Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had a
| > first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you,
| > good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been welcome
| > to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we could
| > work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster preparedness.
| >
|
|
| They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell are
as
| crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to be a
| security gaurd in a mall.
|
|
| Bertie

How can you tell when someone is crazy. You have no frame of reference.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
| "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| ...
| > "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| > :
| >
| >> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| >> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform, two
| >> Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a local
| >> disaster drill.
| >>
| >> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had a
| >> first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you,
| >> good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been welcome
| >> to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we could
| >> work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster preparedness.
| >>
| >
| >
| > They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell are
| > as
| > crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to be
a
| > security gaurd in a mall.
|
| This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag. Many
| members were in the real air force and many have retired from the same. I
| know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the real USAF.
There's
| also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun and could care
less
| about the pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of CAP is
| mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not make one an
| officer, although there are many who seem to think it does. For senior
| members, there's also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms which
| display no rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who don't
| really want to pretend they are in the military.
|

Gee Mikey Mouth. I didn't know you were a CAP wanna be.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| :
|
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >> :
| >>
| >>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| >>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform,
| >>> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
| >>> local disaster drill.
| >>>
| >>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had a
| >>> first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you,
| >>> good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been welcome
| >>> to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we could
| >>> work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster preparedness.
| >>>
| >>
| >>
| >> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell
| >> are as
| >> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to
| >> be a security gaurd in a mall.
| >
| > This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
| > Many members were in the real air force and many have retired from the
| > same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the real
| > USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun
| > and could care less about the pretend military gig. The pretend air
| > force aspect of CAP is mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in
| > dues does not make one an officer, although there are many who seem to
| > think it does. For senior members, there's also the option of wearing
| > CAP distinctive uniforms which display no rank insignia. That's the
| > option preferred by those who don't really want to pretend they are in
| > the military.
| >
| >
|
| Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They are in
| a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
|
|
| Bertie

That's because you have never finished anything. If they won't let you run
it, you pout and go home.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| :
|
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| >> :
| >>
| >>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >>> ...
| >>>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >>>> :
| >>>>
| >>>>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| >>>>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform,
| >>>>> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
| >>>>> local disaster drill.
| >>>>>
| >>>>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had
| >>>>> a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are
| >>>>> you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been
| >>>>> welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways
| >>>>> we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
| >>>>> preparedness.
| >>>>>
| >>>>
| >>>>
| >>>> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| >>>> personell are as
| >>>> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified
| >>>> to be a security gaurd in a mall.
| >>>
| >>> This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
| >>> Many members were in the real air force and many have retired from
| >>> the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the
| >>> real USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like to fly and
| >>> have fun and could care less about the pretend military gig. The
| >>> pretend air force aspect of CAP is mostly for the cadets. Paying
| >>> $70 per year in dues does not make one an officer, although there
| >>> are many who seem to think it does. For senior members, there's
| >>> also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms which display no
| >>> rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who don't
| >>> really want to pretend they are in the military.
| >>>
| >>>
| >>
| >> Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They are
| >> in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
| >
| > It all depends on the squadron you're in. Some are more into the
| > flying aspect and less into the pretend military aspect. Those tend
| > to be the more capable squadrons for air ops because they are less
| > tolerant of pilots who can't fly their thumb up their arse. At least
| > in my observations. There's lots of CAP pilots who don't ever fly
| > unless it's on the CAP dime. As such they may go 3-4 months without
| > flying at all. Those types of guys aren't well tolerated in squadrons
| > that are more serious about the flying aspect.
|
|
| Whatever turns them on. Not worth my time to even think about them,
| mostly.
|
| bertie
|

I seriously doubt they give a **** what you think. Most intelligent people
don't.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
|
| On the other side of that coin there are those who expect to join CAP and
| think they have a "right" to start flying missions the next day because
they
| have X number of ratings or whatever, or they are simply a low time pilot
| who wants to fly CAP planes on the cheap, yet contribute nothing to the
| organization. Or they simply join up one day and expect the organization
to
| bend around them rather than wanting to be part of a team. Many of them
| wind up like you and quit. Good ridance, I say. CAP has over 500
aircraft
| in their fleet, so it should come as no surprise that they are going to
| auger one in now and then. The nature of the business involves some level
| of risk. Of the crashes you mentioned, all involved very experienced and
| competent pilots. Perhaps they did do something stupid, but if you think
| you are smarter than they were, or a better pilot, you have the type of
| attitude that often leads to a smoking crater at the end of your flying
| career.
|
|

Are you in uniform? Did you salute Viperquack's first post?

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:QsuBk.442$UB3.137@trnddc07...

Hey! Mikey Mouths tricycle has a reverse!

[Mick[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
In closing I am not some keyboard pilot and I will identify myself...
I bet you don't have the balls to..


Ben Haas
Jackson Hole Wy
N801BH


----------------------------------

I bet he doesn't either, Ben.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> In closing I am not some keyboard pilot and I will identify myself...
> I bet you don't have the balls to..
>
>
> Ben Haas
> Jackson Hole Wy
> N801BH
>
>
> ----------------------------------
>
> I bet he doesn't either, Ben.
>
>

But you do, dontcha wannabe boi?

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Viperdoc" > wrote in message
> ...
>|I have been at various airshows, flyins, etc where CAP cadets and
>|adults
>| were present in uniform.
>|
>| As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to
>| salute officers etc? Are members of the Air Force supposed to salute
>| CAP members
> of
>| higher rank?
>|
>| Walking around at these functions it is sometimes hard to tell who
>| rates a salute or not.
>|
>|
>
> Aaahwwww, poor baby. Did someone forget to salute doctorjetpilot?
>
> Maybe they recognized you.
>


God knows what they'd do if they recognised you.

I;d rather not think about it myself.


Bertie

[Mike]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
...
>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
> | "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
> | :
> |
> | > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> | > ...
> | >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
> | >> :
> | >>
> | >>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> | >>> ...
> | >>>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
> | >>>> :
> | >>>>
> | >>>>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
> | >>>>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform,
> | >>>>> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
> | >>>>> local disaster drill.
> | >>>>>
> | >>>>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had
> | >>>>> a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are
> | >>>>> you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been
> | >>>>> welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways
> | >>>>> we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
> | >>>>> preparedness.
> | >>>>>
> | >>>>
> | >>>>
> | >>>> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
> | >>>> personell are as
> | >>>> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified
> | >>>> to be a security gaurd in a mall.
> | >>>
> | >>> This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
> | >>> Many members were in the real air force and many have retired from
> | >>> the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the
> | >>> real USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like to fly and
> | >>> have fun and could care less about the pretend military gig. The
> | >>> pretend air force aspect of CAP is mostly for the cadets. Paying
> | >>> $70 per year in dues does not make one an officer, although there
> | >>> are many who seem to think it does. For senior members, there's
> | >>> also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms which display no
> | >>> rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who don't
> | >>> really want to pretend they are in the military.
> | >>>
> | >>>
> | >>
> | >> Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They are
> | >> in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
> | >
> | > It all depends on the squadron you're in. Some are more into the
> | > flying aspect and less into the pretend military aspect. Those tend
> | > to be the more capable squadrons for air ops because they are less
> | > tolerant of pilots who can't fly their thumb up their arse. At least
> | > in my observations. There's lots of CAP pilots who don't ever fly
> | > unless it's on the CAP dime. As such they may go 3-4 months without
> | > flying at all. Those types of guys aren't well tolerated in squadrons
> | > that are more serious about the flying aspect.
> |
> |
> | Whatever turns them on. Not worth my time to even think about them,
> | mostly.
> |
> | bertie
> |
>
> I seriously doubt they give a **** what you think. Most intelligent people
> don't.

That explains why you reply to each of his posts.

[Mike]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
> | "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> | ...
> | > "Viperdoc" > wrote in
> | > :
> | >
> | >> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
> | >> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform,
> two
> | >> Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a local
> | >> disaster drill.
> | >>
> | >> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had a
> | >> first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you,
> | >> good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been welcome
> | >> to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we could
> | >> work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster preparedness.
> | >>
> | >
> | >
> | > They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell
> are
> | > as
> | > crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to
> be
> a
> | > security gaurd in a mall.
> |
> | This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
> Many
> | members were in the real air force and many have retired from the same.
> I
> | know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the real USAF.
> There's
> | also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun and could care
> less
> | about the pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of CAP is
> | mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not make one an
> | officer, although there are many who seem to think it does. For senior
> | members, there's also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms
> which
> | display no rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who
> don't
> | really want to pretend they are in the military.
> |
>
> Gee Mikey Mouth. I didn't know you were a CAP wanna be.

I figured out you were a pilot-wannabe some time ago, Okie.

[Mike]

> wrote in message
...
> On Sep 21, 10:17 am, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> > I'm well aware of the details in both crashes. You obviously didn't read
> > what I wrote very closely. As I said, the people in question may have
> > been
> > doing something stupid at the time, but guess what? The vast majority of
> > accidents are caused by pilot error, and the vast majority of those are
> > caused by doing something stupid at the time. However when you start
> > thinking you are more "competent" than they were and you would never do
> > something stupid yourself, is exactly the type of attitude that leads to
> > a
> > lot of pilots' demise, and regardless of what you think, how many planes
> > or
> > airports you have owned is irrelevant in that regard. As far as CAP
> > goes, I
> > find it quite amusing that you try to blame the accidents on CAP. Had
> > both
> > pilots been following CAP's rules, neither accident would have happened.
> > And as far as your short lived CAP tenure goes, I see a lot of your type
> > come and go. For whatever reason, you have a different expectation of
> > CAP
> > and when CAP doesn't bend to your expectation, you quit and act as if
> > your
> > quitting is to the detriment of CAP. I can assure you it isn't.- >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Let me set you straight.... First. Come on ol buddy, You are not
> aware of the details of both crashes or as a intelligent human being
> you would not have said those planes were flown by " experienced and
> competent pilots.....I do blame the CAP for the crashes. If they had
> their training and supervision in order the idiots who destroyed both
> planes would have been grounded before they could waste taxpayers
> dollars.

Hmm, let's see here. By your own admission, you stayed in CAP for all of 1
SAREX, then quit, yet you're the "expert". What a riot. The only thing you
set me straight on is the extent of your ignorance.

> Second, I was told time and time again if you wreck a plane you pay
> for the plane, this was straight from the wing commander. Guess
> what. Mrs Anderson didn't repay the United States for her husbands
> stupidy. The estate of the other bonehead didn't pay the United States
> for his stupid act either.

Gee, I wonder why CAP carries insurance on all their planes.

> Third and last, Your trying to belittle me is EXACLY why I and
> thousands of other competent pilots left the CAP before one of your
> type could kill us. There is a high probability you don't own a plane
> of your own and fly the CAP plane at greatly reduced rate to enjoy
> aviation. The rest of the taxpayers are funding your recreation...
> This needs to STOP and I will keep expressing my opinion in the effort
> of getting "COMPETENT AND EXPERIENCED" pilots in the CAP planes. .You
> need to read this closely sport because those are your words,,,, not
> mine. You keep driving at the point of my attitude will cause my
> demise. You, my friend are not in touch with reality.

You belittle others who obviously can't defend themselves, and then you want
to claim victimization? You belittle yourself better than I ever could.

> In closing I am not some keyboard pilot and I will identify myself...
> I bet you don't have the balls to..

I'm not the one claiming I'm a better pilot than everyone else.

>
>
> Ben Haas
> Jackson Hole Wy
> N801BH

You've had your ticket for all of 18 months and you have no additional
ratings, yet you think you're more "competent and experienced" than the 2
other pilots you cast disparity on, both of which were at least commercial
and instrument rated. What a riot.

Yes, I'm sure CAP sorely missed losing "competent and experienced" pilots
like you, sunshine. I'm sure your 50 hours or so was experience CAP can
never replace.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 21, 10:17*am, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Sep 20, 6:50 pm, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > wrote in message
>
> > ....
>
> > > >>They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell
> > > >>are
> > > >>as
> > > >>crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to
> > > >>be a
> > > >>security gaurd in a mall.
>
> > > >>Bertie
>
> > > > I hate to admit it but Bertie is right on with this one..
>
> > > > I tried the local CAP to be helpful, find and hopefully save a
> > > > life. Turned out they are a group of military wanna be's who have
> > > > control of a AirForce owned plane and dictate who can play in their
> > > > sandbox. First, that plane belongs to ALL of us, they have strick
> > > > rules like, " a member needs to be height/weight proportionate. The
> > > > state commander was a walking heart attack and at my first and only
> > > > SAREX, 90% of the group was 300 lbs +. So much for rules <G>. The last
> > > > straw was their overwhelming desire for protocal, If I am going to
> > > > risk my life looking for missing people and planes I would expect them
> > > > to respect the general population and give some leeway in the fact
> > > > that all volunteer citizans don't have time to go home, get dressed in
> > > > their approved monkey suits and meet at the office to start a search.
> > > > Hell by that time the party we are looking for are dead !!! And look
> > > > at their safety record... Dismal at best. If I am going to get killed
> > > > it sure as hell ain't gonna be by some uniform wearing low time
> > > > assholes..... Let's see. the Wyoming wing of the Cival Air Patrol has
> > > > in the last couple of years has killed 4 humans, destroyed two
> > > > perfectly good planes, both by total stupidity.. I have been flying
> > > > and have yet to even put a single scratch on anything but I seem to be
> > > > not qualified to fly their,-- oops, our planes. To be fair there is a
> > > > few good guys and gals in the CAP, but,,,,,,,,the VAST majority
> > > > though are as Bertie puts it " crazy as bedbugs"
>
> > risk. *Of the crashes you mentioned, all involved very experienced and
> > > competent pilots. *Perhaps they did do something stupid, but if you
> > > think
> > > you are smarter than they were, or a better pilot, you have the type of
> > > attitude that often leads to a smoking crater at the end of your flying
> > > career.-
>
> > You obviously are not very well informed. *The first fatal accident in
> > N9928H was flown by Fletcher Anderson, who wrote a book on safe flying
> > and mountian flying. This was not his first accident either. While
> > flying through the Snake river canyon south of *Jackson Wy he hit a
> > cable that crosses the river. A cable they use to measure the river
> > level. That said cable was 17.3 feet above the surface. The altitude
> > he was supposed to be at *in that area was around 4000 feet higher,
> > competent ?? *you better start smoking something better. The other CAP
> > pilot was supposably a CAP mountian fury course instructor who spun in
> > and took two other lives with him, and started a forest fire. That was
> > the only thing he did correctly though. They found the wreckage and
> > bodies by following the smoke. Competent ? highly improbable... I have
> > been flying almost 30 years, owned several planes and didn't join the
> > CAP for a free ride or to fly missions the next day. I have my own
> > plane and in fact my own airport, I don't need the CAP to leach off of
> > for my flying enjoyment, the vast majority of CAP members don't own an
> > aircraft. ! * If you are going to defend the CAP flight safety record
> > you better inform yourself in a timely matter before making statements
> > like "very experienced and competent".
>
> > Cheers and tailwinds.
>
> I'm well aware of the details in both crashes. *You obviously didn't read
> what I wrote very closely. *As I said, the people in question may have been
> doing something stupid at the time, but guess what? *The vast majority of
> accidents are caused by pilot error, and the vast majority of those are
> caused by doing something stupid at the time. *However when you start
> thinking you are more "competent" than they were and you would never do
> something stupid yourself, is exactly the type of attitude that leads to a
> lot of pilots' demise, and regardless of what you think, how many planes or
> airports you have owned is irrelevant in that regard. *As far as CAP goes, I
> find it quite amusing that you try to blame the accidents on CAP. *Had both
> pilots been following CAP's rules, neither accident would have happened.
> And as far as your short lived CAP tenure goes, I see a lot of your type
> come and go. *For whatever reason, you have a different expectation of CAP
> and when CAP doesn't bend to your expectation, you quit and act as if your
> quitting is to the detriment of CAP. *I can assure you it isn't.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hmmm lets see..

Mike wrote"
I'm well aware of the details in both crashes. You obviously didn't
read
what I wrote very closely. As I said, the people in question may have
been
doing something stupid at the time, but guess what? The vast majority
of
accidents are caused by pilot error, and the vast majority of those
are
caused by doing something stupid at

May have been doing something stupid ???? Just admit it they WERE
doing something stupid and now 4 are dead. Denial is a common CAP
trait.. You are a computer geek, Funny you didn't find I have been
flying for almost 30 years and more hours then you can fathom.. How
the hell did ya come up with 18 months? and 50 hours ??? Must be
another one of the CAP brainfarts....

Cheers, and over and out..
Oh yeah, we are all still waiting for you to post the N number of your
plane you own too.......

Yours truly
ben.

[Mike]

> wrote in message
...

> Hmmm lets see..
>
> Mike wrote"
> I'm well aware of the details in both crashes. You obviously didn't
> read
> what I wrote very closely. As I said, the people in question may have
> been
> doing something stupid at the time, but guess what? The vast majority
> of
> accidents are caused by pilot error, and the vast majority of those
> are
> caused by doing something stupid at
>
> May have been doing something stupid ???? Just admit it they WERE
> doing something stupid and now 4 are dead. Denial is a common CAP
> trait.. You are a computer geek, Funny you didn't find I have been
> flying for almost 30 years and more hours then you can fathom.. How
> the hell did ya come up with 18 months? and 50 hours ??? Must be
> another one of the CAP brainfarts....

FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results

STEPHEN BENNETT HAAS

Address
Street 700 PONDEROSA DR
City JACKSON State WY
County TETON Zip Code 83001-9379
Country USA


Medical

Medical Class: Third Medical Date: 11/2006

# MUST HAVE AVAILABLE GLASSES FOR NEAR VISION.


Certificates
1 of 2

1 2

DOI: 1/26/2007
Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT
Rating(s):
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND


Any more lies you'd like to tell, sunshine?


> Cheers, and over and out..
> Oh yeah, we are all still waiting for you to post the N number of your
> plane you own too.......

Why should I?

>
> Yours truly
> ben.

[Jim Logajan]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> STEPHEN BENNETT HAAS

Who changed his first (and middle?) name - you or him?

I believe this is his web site:
http://www.haaspowerair.com/

Ben has been posting to r.a.homebuilt for a while now.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>| "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
>| :
>|
>| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>| > ...
>| >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
>| >> :
>| >>
>| >>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>| >>> ...
>| >>>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
>| >>>> :
>| >>>>
>| >>>>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
>| >>>>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
>| >>>>> uniform, two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of
>| >>>>> BDU's at a local disaster drill.
>| >>>>>
>| >>>>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he
>| >>>>> had a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how
>| >>>>> are you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would
>| >>>>> have been welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up
>| >>>>> with some ways we could work with CAP and the military to
>| >>>>> enhance our disaster preparedness.
>| >>>>>
>| >>>>
>| >>>>
>| >>>> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
>| >>>> personell are as
>| >>>> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not
>| >>>> qualified to be a security gaurd in a mall.
>| >>>
>| >>> This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed
>| >>> bag. Many members were in the real air force and many have
>| >>> retired from the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real
>| >>> colonels in the real USAF. There's also a lot of members who
>| >>> just like to fly and have fun and could care less about the
>| >>> pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of CAP is
>| >>> mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not make
>| >>> one an officer, although there are many who seem to think it
>| >>> does. For senior members, there's also the option of wearing CAP
>| >>> distinctive uniforms which display no rank insignia. That's the
>| >>> option preferred by those who don't really want to pretend they
>| >>> are in the military.
>| >>>
>| >>>
>| >>
>| >> Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They
>| >> are in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
>| >
>| > It all depends on the squadron you're in. Some are more into the
>| > flying aspect and less into the pretend military aspect. Those
>| > tend to be the more capable squadrons for air ops because they are
>| > less tolerant of pilots who can't fly their thumb up their arse.
>| > At least in my observations. There's lots of CAP pilots who don't
>| > ever fly unless it's on the CAP dime. As such they may go 3-4
>| > months without flying at all. Those types of guys aren't well
>| > tolerated in squadrons that are more serious about the flying
>| > aspect.
>|
>|
>| Whatever turns them on. Not worth my time to even think about them,
>| mostly.
>|
>| bertie
>|
>
> I seriously doubt they give a **** what you think. Most intelligent
> people don't.
>
>

I don;'t care.


And you obviously are obvlivious to everything outside of your own world
view, which pretty much just consists of your illoeceal valve.


Bertie
>

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
| ...
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| > | :
| > |
| > | > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > | > ...
| > | >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| > | >> :
| > | >>
| > | >>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > | >>> ...
| > | >>>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| > | >>>> :
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| > | >>>>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
uniform,
| > | >>>>> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
| > | >>>>> local disaster drill.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he
had
| > | >>>>> a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are
| > | >>>>> you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have
been
| > | >>>>> welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some
ways
| > | >>>>> we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
| > | >>>>> preparedness.
| > | >>>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>>
| > | >>>> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| > | >>>> personell are as
| > | >>>> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified
| > | >>>> to be a security gaurd in a mall.
| > | >>>
| > | >>> This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed
bag.
| > | >>> Many members were in the real air force and many have retired from
| > | >>> the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in
the
| > | >>> real USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like to fly and
| > | >>> have fun and could care less about the pretend military gig. The
| > | >>> pretend air force aspect of CAP is mostly for the cadets. Paying
| > | >>> $70 per year in dues does not make one an officer, although there
| > | >>> are many who seem to think it does. For senior members, there's
| > | >>> also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms which display
no
| > | >>> rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who don't
| > | >>> really want to pretend they are in the military.
| > | >>>
| > | >>>
| > | >>
| > | >> Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They
are
| > | >> in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
| > | >
| > | > It all depends on the squadron you're in. Some are more into the
| > | > flying aspect and less into the pretend military aspect. Those tend
| > | > to be the more capable squadrons for air ops because they are less
| > | > tolerant of pilots who can't fly their thumb up their arse. At
least
| > | > in my observations. There's lots of CAP pilots who don't ever fly
| > | > unless it's on the CAP dime. As such they may go 3-4 months without
| > | > flying at all. Those types of guys aren't well tolerated in
squadrons
| > | > that are more serious about the flying aspect.
| > |
| > |
| > | Whatever turns them on. Not worth my time to even think about them,
| > | mostly.
| > |
| > | bertie
| > |
| >
| > I seriously doubt they give a **** what you think. Most intelligent
people
| > don't.
|
| That explains why you reply to each of his posts.
|

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >| "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| >| :
| >|
| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| > ...
| >| >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| >| >> :
| >| >>
| >| >>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| >>> ...
| >| >>>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| >>>> :
| >| >>>>
| >| >>>>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| >| >>>>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
| >| >>>>> uniform, two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of
| >| >>>>> BDU's at a local disaster drill.
| >| >>>>>
| >| >>>>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he
| >| >>>>> had a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how
| >| >>>>> are you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would
| >| >>>>> have been welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up
| >| >>>>> with some ways we could work with CAP and the military to
| >| >>>>> enhance our disaster preparedness.
| >| >>>>>
| >| >>>>
| >| >>>>
| >| >>>> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| >| >>>> personell are as
| >| >>>> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not
| >| >>>> qualified to be a security gaurd in a mall.
| >| >>>
| >| >>> This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed
| >| >>> bag. Many members were in the real air force and many have
| >| >>> retired from the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real
| >| >>> colonels in the real USAF. There's also a lot of members who
| >| >>> just like to fly and have fun and could care less about the
| >| >>> pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of CAP is
| >| >>> mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not make
| >| >>> one an officer, although there are many who seem to think it
| >| >>> does. For senior members, there's also the option of wearing CAP
| >| >>> distinctive uniforms which display no rank insignia. That's the
| >| >>> option preferred by those who don't really want to pretend they
| >| >>> are in the military.
| >| >>>
| >| >>>
| >| >>
| >| >> Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They
| >| >> are in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
| >| >
| >| > It all depends on the squadron you're in. Some are more into the
| >| > flying aspect and less into the pretend military aspect. Those
| >| > tend to be the more capable squadrons for air ops because they are
| >| > less tolerant of pilots who can't fly their thumb up their arse.
| >| > At least in my observations. There's lots of CAP pilots who don't
| >| > ever fly unless it's on the CAP dime. As such they may go 3-4
| >| > months without flying at all. Those types of guys aren't well
| >| > tolerated in squadrons that are more serious about the flying
| >| > aspect.
| >|
| >|
| >| Whatever turns them on. Not worth my time to even think about them,
| >| mostly.
| >|
| >| bertie
| >|
| >
| > I seriously doubt they give a **** what you think. Most intelligent
| > people don't.
| >
| >
|
| I don;'t care.
|
|
| And you obviously are obvlivious to everything outside of your own world
| view, which pretty much just consists of your illoeceal valve.
|
|
| Bertie
| >
|

Exactly the problem. You don't care about anything, or anyone, except
yourself.

That's one of your many illnesses.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
| ...
| >
| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > ...
| > | "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > | ...
| > | > "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| > | > :
| > | >
| > | >> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| > | >> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform,
| > two
| > | >> Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a local
| > | >> disaster drill.
| > | >>
| > | >> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had
a
| > | >> first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are you,
| > | >> good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been
welcome
| > | >> to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we could
| > | >> work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
preparedness.
| > | >>
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell
| > are
| > | > as
| > | > crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to
| > be
| > a
| > | > security gaurd in a mall.
| > |
| > | This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
| > Many
| > | members were in the real air force and many have retired from the
same.
| > I
| > | know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the real USAF.
| > There's
| > | also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun and could care
| > less
| > | about the pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of CAP
is
| > | mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not make one
an
| > | officer, although there are many who seem to think it does. For
senior
| > | members, there's also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms
| > which
| > | display no rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who
| > don't
| > | really want to pretend they are in the military.
| > |
| >
| > Gee Mikey Mouth. I didn't know you were a CAP wanna be.
|
| I figured out you were a pilot-wannabe some time ago, Okie.
|

One of the many thousands of things you know nothing about.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > ...
| >| "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| ...
| >| > "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| > :
| >| >
| >| >> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| >| >> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform,
| >| >> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
| >| >> local disaster drill.
| >| >>
| >| >> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had
| >| >> a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are
| >| >> you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been
| >| >> welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways
| >| >> we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
| >| >> preparedness.
| >| >>
| >| >
| >| >
| >| > They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| >| > personell are as
| >| > crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified
| >| > to be
| > a
| >| > security gaurd in a mall.
| >|
| >| This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
| >| Many members were in the real air force and many have retired from
| >| the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the
| >| real USAF.
| > There's
| >| also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun and could
| >| care
| > less
| >| about the pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of CAP
| >| is mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not make
| >| one an officer, although there are many who seem to think it does.
| >| For senior members, there's also the option of wearing CAP
| >| distinctive uniforms which display no rank insignia. That's the
| >| option preferred by those who don't really want to pretend they are
| >| in the military.
| >|
| >
| > Gee Mikey Mouth. I didn't know you were a CAP wanna be.
|
|
|
| Would you please make this a little more difficult for me?
|
|
|
| Bertie
| >
| >
| >
|

Nothing is too difficult for a wanna boi.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >| "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| >| :
| >|
| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| > ...
| >| >> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| >> :
| >| >>
| >| >>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| >| >>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
| >| >>> uniform, two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of
| >| >>> BDU's at a local disaster drill.
| >| >>>
| >| >>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he
| >| >>> had a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how
| >| >>> are you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have
| >| >>> been welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some
| >| >>> ways we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our
| >| >>> disaster preparedness.
| >| >>>
| >| >>
| >| >>
| >| >> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| >| >> personell are as
| >| >> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified
| >| >> to be a security gaurd in a mall.
| >| >
| >| > This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
| >| > Many members were in the real air force and many have retired from
| >| > the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in
| >| > the real USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like to fly
| >| > and have fun and could care less about the pretend military gig.
| >| > The pretend air force aspect of CAP is mostly for the cadets.
| >| > Paying $70 per year in dues does not make one an officer, although
| >| > there are many who seem to think it does. For senior members,
| >| > there's also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms which
| >| > display no rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who
| >| > don't really want to pretend they are in the military.
| >| >
| >| >
| >|
| >| Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They are
| >| in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >
| > That's because you have never finished anything. If they won't let you
| > run it, you pout and go home.
| >
|
|
| Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahhw!
|
| Back to the battleship flame technique, eh lamer?
|
|
| Bertie

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:QsuBk.442$UB3.137@trnddc07...
| >
| > Hey! Mikey Mouths tricycle has a reverse!
| >
| >
| >
|
| Hey Maxine is a fjukkwit.
|
|
| Bertie

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > ...
| >|
| >| On the other side of that coin there are those who expect to join CAP
| >| and think they have a "right" to start flying missions the next day
| >| because
| > they
| >| have X number of ratings or whatever, or they are simply a low time
| >| pilot who wants to fly CAP planes on the cheap, yet contribute
| >| nothing to the organization. Or they simply join up one day and
| >| expect the organization
| > to
| >| bend around them rather than wanting to be part of a team. Many of
| >| them wind up like you and quit. Good ridance, I say. CAP has over
| >| 500
| > aircraft
| >| in their fleet, so it should come as no surprise that they are going
| >| to auger one in now and then. The nature of the business involves
| >| some level of risk. Of the crashes you mentioned, all involved very
| >| experienced and competent pilots. Perhaps they did do something
| >| stupid, but if you think you are smarter than they were, or a better
| >| pilot, you have the type of attitude that often leads to a smoking
| >| crater at the end of your flying career.
| >|
| >|
| >
| > Are you in uniform? Did you salute Viperquack's first post?
| >
| >
| Pretty funny coming from someone who salutes janitors.
|
|
|
| Bertie
| >
|

Interesting how easy you can lie.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >| "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| :
| >|
| >| > The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| >| > variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in uniform,
| >| > two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
| >| > local disaster drill.
| >| >
| >| > Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he had
| >| > a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are
| >| > you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been
| >| > welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways
| >| > we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
| >| > preparedness.
| >| >
| >|
| >|
| >| They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP personell
| >| are
| > as
| >| crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified to
| >| be a security gaurd in a mall.
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >
| > How can you tell when someone is crazy. You have no frame of
| > reference.
|
|
| Sure I do.
|
| I have the perfect template in my #1 fanboi
|
|
|
| Bertie

Continue your fantasy.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >| "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| :
| >|
| >| > I have been at various airshows, flyins, etc where CAP cadets and
| >| > adults were present in uniform.
| >| >
| >| > As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to
salute
| >| > officers etc?
| >|
| >|
| >| Yep
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >
| > gotta link dikk ed.
| >
| >
| >
|
|
| Don't need one.
|
|
|
| Bertie

Didn't think so.

[Sylvain]

Mike wrote:

>> Ben Haas
>> Jackson Hole Wy
>> N801BH
>
> You've had your ticket for all of 18 months and you have no additional
> ratings,

How do you figure this one out? the date of issue that you can find on the
online FAA database tells you when the piece of paper (or plastic) was
issued, which doesn't tell you anything about when the certificate was
earned; for instance, should you ask for a new copy of your certificate
(because you want to remove your SSN, or replace your paper one with the
new fancy plastic with hologram version, or change your name -- e.g., after
getting married, get a new version that states that you speak english or
with a photo on it (coming soon), or getting a new rating, or change any
other information on it), then the date of issue is going to reflect this
latest transaction, and does not tell you anything about the experience of
that pilot.... just saying.

--Sylvain

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Mike wrote:
>
>DOI: 1/26/2007
>Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT
>Rating(s):
>PRIVATE PILOT
>AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
>
>Any more lies you'd like to tell, sunshine?
>
You are aware that DOI is the date that the last card was sent out, right?
Quit while you're behind.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200809/1

[[email protected]]

On Sep 22, 3:57*pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>
> >DOI: 1/26/2007
> >Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT
> >Rating(s):
> >PRIVATE PILOT
> >AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
>
> >Any more lies you'd like to tell, sunshine?
>
> * You are aware that DOI is the date that the last card was sent out, right?
> Quit while you're behind.
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
>
> --
> Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200809/1

Mike is the EXACT reason I quit the Civil Air Patrol. The whole
organization is full of his type. He does fit right in though..


Safe flying guys...

Ben.

[Mike]

"Sylvain" > wrote in message
...
> Mike wrote:
>
>>> Ben Haas
>>> Jackson Hole Wy
>>> N801BH
>>
>> You've had your ticket for all of 18 months and you have no additional
>> ratings,
>
> How do you figure this one out? the date of issue that you can find on
> the
> online FAA database tells you when the piece of paper (or plastic) was
> issued, which doesn't tell you anything about when the certificate was
> earned; for instance, should you ask for a new copy of your certificate
> (because you want to remove your SSN, or replace your paper one with the
> new fancy plastic with hologram version, or change your name -- e.g.,
> after
> getting married, get a new version that states that you speak english or
> with a photo on it (coming soon), or getting a new rating, or change any
> other information on it), then the date of issue is going to reflect this
> latest transaction, and does not tell you anything about the experience
> of
> that pilot.... just saying.

Not all of the things you mentioned changes the DOI, and the person in
question has no ratings beyond PP-SEL. So it seems a bit strange that this
person has "30 years" of experience as he claims, and nothing farther than
PP-SEL. Certainly lots of things are possible, but one thing is for sure,
he has not demonstrated any competencies beyond PP-SEL, and the two deceased
pilots he chooses to belittle have demonstrated far more competency than he
has.

[Sylvain]

Mike wrote:
> Not all of the things you mentioned changes the DOI,

from personal experience, changing the certificate just to get a new shiny
one, or to change some personal information such as citizenship, in
addition to adding ratings of course, i.e., any time I had to file an
8710, does reset the DOI. I haven't tried changing my name (or DOB... yep,
you can change this one too, not quite sure why/how, but it is listed in
the things you can change) yet; I also know -- second hand information,
from looking at some buddy's certificate -- that changing the certificate
number to remove the SSN which used to be there, will do the trick too.

--Sylvain

[Mike]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
> | "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
> | ...
> | >
> | > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> | > ...
> | > | "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> | > | ...
> | > | > "Viperdoc" > wrote in
> | > | > :
> | > | >
> | > | >> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
> | > | >> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
> uniform,
> | > two
> | > | >> Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
> local
> | > | >> disaster drill.
> | > | >>
> | > | >> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he
> had
> a
> | > | >> first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are
> you,
> | > | >> good day, or something similar. He certainly would have been
> welcome
> | > | >> to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we
> could
> | > | >> work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
> preparedness.
> | > | >>
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | > They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
> personell
> | > are
> | > | > as
> | > | > crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified
> to
> | > be
> | > a
> | > | > security gaurd in a mall.
> | > |
> | > | This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed bag.
> | > Many
> | > | members were in the real air force and many have retired from the
> same.
> | > I
> | > | know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the real USAF.
> | > There's
> | > | also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun and could
> care
> | > less
> | > | about the pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of CAP
> is
> | > | mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not make
> one
> an
> | > | officer, although there are many who seem to think it does. For
> senior
> | > | members, there's also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms
> | > which
> | > | display no rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who
> | > don't
> | > | really want to pretend they are in the military.
> | > |
> | >
> | > Gee Mikey Mouth. I didn't know you were a CAP wanna be.
> |
> | I figured out you were a pilot-wannabe some time ago, Okie.
> |
>
> One of the many thousands of things you know nothing about.

And yet I still have you pegged, Okie.

[Sylvain]

Viperdoc wrote:

> As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to salute
> officers etc? Are members of the Air Force supposed to salute CAP members
> of higher rank?

....I don't mean to be throwing additional gasoline to the flames, but you
didn't say where you were standing when you noticed the lack of salute from
said CAP members nor what they were doing at the time: if they were
carrying something, or on the flightline, or attending a public gathering
such as a sport event (or an airshow!) then they may have known something
about military customs that you didn't :-)

In fact, from the little information you described, i.e., attending a
sport event/airshow, the CAP members you saw were following the protocol
to the letter, as described in excruciating details in CAP pamphlet 15
(E) -- Section A.2.b.

end of discussions, you are dismissed :-)

--Sylvain

[romeomike]

Mike wrote:

>
> Not all of the things you mentioned changes the DOI, and the person in
> question has no ratings beyond PP-SEL. So it seems a bit strange that
> this person has "30 years" of experience as he claims, and nothing
> farther than PP-SEL. Certainly lots of things are possible, but one
> thing is for sure, he has not demonstrated any competencies beyond
> PP-SEL, and the two deceased pilots he chooses to belittle have
> demonstrated far more competency than he has.


Well, they gave me a new DOI when I added ratings, got my SS# taken off,
changed address several times, corrected a misspelling, got the new
plastic one, and was declared "English Proficient."

One doesn't need ratings to demonstrate competence. I know many very
competent pilots who have no rating above the PPL. Some are very good
aerobatic pilots or fly high performance planes. They just don't need to
impress anyone with ratings they don't use. Ratings won't help you if
you have poor judgment. I don't know "benford", but IMO he's
demonstrated competence and judgment by staying alive during 30 years of
flying.

[Mike]

"romeomike" > wrote in message
...
> Mike wrote:
>
>>
>> Not all of the things you mentioned changes the DOI, and the person in
>> question has no ratings beyond PP-SEL. So it seems a bit strange that
>> this person has "30 years" of experience as he claims, and nothing
>> farther than PP-SEL. Certainly lots of things are possible, but one
>> thing is for sure, he has not demonstrated any competencies beyond
>> PP-SEL, and the two deceased pilots he chooses to belittle have
>> demonstrated far more competency than he has.
>
>
> Well, they gave me a new DOI when I added ratings, got my SS# taken off,
> changed address several times, corrected a misspelling, got the new
> plastic one, and was declared "English Proficient."
>
> One doesn't need ratings to demonstrate competence. I know many very
> competent pilots who have no rating above the PPL. Some are very good
> aerobatic pilots or fly high performance planes. They just don't need to
> impress anyone with ratings they don't use. Ratings won't help you if you
> have poor judgment. I don't know "benford", but IMO he's demonstrated
> competence and judgment by staying alive during 30 years of flying.

You're assuming he has 30 years of flying, as we only have his word on that.
You are correct in that ratings aren't the only thing required to
demonstrate competence, but what exactly has he done to demonstrate
competence other than keep himself alive for his 50 or unfathomable or
whatever hours he actually does have? One thing I do know is that Lt. Col
James Henderson managed to keep himself alive flying for more years that he
did. He demonstrated his competence when he completed his instrument
rating. He demonstrated his competence when he achieved his commercial
rating. He demonstrated his competence by flying thousands of hours of
pipeline patrol. He demonstrated his competence when he completed his
biannual CAP mountain qualification. He demonstrated his competence by
becoming a CAP check pilot. He demonstrated his competence by maintaining
his BFR on a yearly basis, and he demonstrated his competence on a monthly
basis in order to be qualified to fly the type of mission he was flying.

James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who was lost
in the mountains. He gave his live as a part of a volunteer organization
that helps thousands of people each year, saves dozens of lives, and teaches
tens of thousands of kids respect, community involvement, and aviation. As
a part of that organization, James Henderson donated a considerable amount
of time , his money, and his skills. This is an organization that Mr. Haas
proved he has too much ego to be a part. Now he wants to try and belittle
James Henderson and that organization as he tries to pretend he is a more
competent and experienced pilot who never does anything stupid. So draw
your own conclusions. The one I have is that Mr. Haas is nothing more than
a blowhard piece of human filth who needs to cast disparity on those who are
better than he is in order to inflate his already enormous ego. YMMV.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 23, 12:13*am, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> "romeomike" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mike wrote:
>
> >> Not all of the things you mentioned changes the DOI, and the person in
> >> question has no ratings beyond PP-SEL. *So it seems a bit strange that
> >> this person has "30 years" of experience as he claims, and nothing
> >> farther than PP-SEL. *Certainly lots of things are possible, but one
> >> thing is for sure, he has not demonstrated any competencies beyond
> >> PP-SEL, and the two deceased pilots he chooses to belittle have
> >> demonstrated far more competency than he has.
>
> > Well, they gave me a new DOI when I added ratings, got my SS# taken off,
> > changed address several times, corrected a misspelling, got the new
> > plastic one, and was declared "English Proficient."
>
> > One doesn't need ratings to demonstrate competence. I know many very
> > competent pilots who have no rating above the PPL. Some are very good
> > aerobatic pilots or fly high performance planes. They just don't need to
> > impress anyone with ratings they don't use. Ratings won't help you if you
> > have poor judgment. I don't know "benford", but IMO he's demonstrated
> > competence and judgment by staying alive during 30 years of flying.
>
> You're assuming he has 30 years of flying, as we only have his word on that.
> You are correct in that ratings aren't the only thing required to
> demonstrate competence, but what exactly has he done to demonstrate
> competence other than keep himself alive for his 50 or unfathomable or
> whatever hours he actually does have? *One thing I do know is that Lt. Col
> James Henderson managed to keep himself alive flying for more years that he
> did. *He demonstrated his competence when he completed his instrument
> rating. *He demonstrated his competence when he achieved his commercial
> rating. *He demonstrated his competence by flying thousands of hours of
> pipeline patrol. *He demonstrated his competence when he completed his
> biannual CAP mountain qualification. *He demonstrated his competence by
> becoming a CAP check pilot. *He demonstrated his competence by maintaining
> his BFR on a yearly basis, and he demonstrated his competence on a monthly
> basis in order to be qualified to fly the type of mission he was flying.
>
> James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who was lost
> in the mountains. *He gave his live as a part of a volunteer organization
> that helps thousands of people each year, saves dozens of lives, and teaches
> tens of thousands of kids respect, community involvement, and aviation. *As
> a part of that organization, James Henderson donated a considerable amount
> of time , his money, and his skills. *This is an organization that Mr. Haas
> proved he has too much ego to be a part. *Now he wants to try and belittle
> James Henderson and that organization as he tries to pretend he is a more
> competent and experienced pilot who never does anything stupid. *So draw
> your own conclusions. *The one I have is that Mr. Haas is nothing more than
> a blowhard piece of human filth who needs to cast disparity on those who are
> better than he is in order to inflate his already enormous ego. *YMMV.-
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ya just can't let go. A true CAP member..

Fact,,, After all the glowing things you have said about James
Henderson and all his aviation skills, he is DEAD,,, from his poor
flying skills, And he killed two other human being during his act of
stupidity. Somehow you forgot to praise those poor souls..

I can't wait to see your glowing report on Mr Anderson and his fine
aviating skills.

As you might know going through the ranks of the CAP require you to
progress from observer, which is rear seat , to scanner, which is
right front seat to mission pilot. That would be the one Mr James
Henderson was in. During my first and only SAREX it became quite clear
that poor ol me, in the rear seat to get "blessed"and move up front, I
was at the mercy of the piloting skills of "experienced and competent"
CAP pilots. Ya see, from the rear seat I can't take control of the
aircraft when said "competent and experienced" pilots do something
that might kill me. What I saw during the first and only SAREX
conviced me to not continue to put myself at risk and as any good
pilot would,mitigate those issues which would take my life. I survived
to fly another day. Guess what Mike, if that really is your name. I
fly almost every day. Mr James Henderson is not flying anymore.

As with most government organizations the tactic is to kill the
messenger when they point out flaws in the system. I was and still
will do what I can to warn other good and safe pilots to think twice
before getting into a situation that might take their life. CAP has a
poor record of safety. Lets look at the Wyoming wing. There were four
planes, two were destroyed in fatal crashes. That is a 50% loss rate.
To you CAP guys it must be acceptable, It is definately not acceptable
to me.

In closing I want to say there are great pilots in the CAP, Bill, the
local guy is outstanding in his flying skills, the real problem is
during a training mission or an actual event one gets paired up with
other flight crews. I will be damned if I am going to be taken out by
a "competent and experienced" CAP pilot. I am kinda amazed the CAP
headquarters has not told you to "tone down" and quit scaring away
future CAP members. You don't see it but your posts are quite clearly
a detriment to the Air Force and its CAP side show.

PS, Those words in your last rant about me are grounds for a
defamation suit, and since you work for Microsoft and are probably
bringing in 6 figures+ a year I would say your assets look pretty
inviting to a hungry lawyer, and you used Mircosoft's server to post
it. That, my friend is called "gravy"

Cheers, tailwinds and safe flying guys.

Ben.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 23, 3:14*am, " > wrote:
> On Sep 23, 12:13*am, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "romeomike" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > Mike wrote:
>
> > >> Not all of the things you mentioned changes the DOI, and the person in
> > >> question has no ratings beyond PP-SEL. *So it seems a bit strange that
> > >> this person has "30 years" of experience as he claims, and nothing
> > >> farther than PP-SEL. *Certainly lots of things are possible, but one
> > >> thing is for sure, he has not demonstrated any competencies beyond
> > >> PP-SEL, and the two deceased pilots he chooses to belittle have
> > >> demonstrated far more competency than he has.
>
> > > Well, they gave me a new DOI when I added ratings, got my SS# taken off,
> > > changed address several times, corrected a misspelling, got the new
> > > plastic one, and was declared "English Proficient."
>
> > > One doesn't need ratings to demonstrate competence. I know many very
> > > competent pilots who have no rating above the PPL. Some are very good
> > > aerobatic pilots or fly high performance planes. They just don't need to
> > > impress anyone with ratings they don't use. Ratings won't help you if you
> > > have poor judgment. I don't know "benford", but IMO he's demonstrated
> > > competence and judgment by staying alive during 30 years of flying.
>
> > You're assuming he has 30 years of flying, as we only have his word on that.
> > You are correct in that ratings aren't the only thing required to
> > demonstrate competence, but what exactly has he done to demonstrate
> > competence other than keep himself alive for his 50 or unfathomable or
> > whatever hours he actually does have? *One thing I do know is that Lt.. Col
> > James Henderson managed to keep himself alive flying for more years that he
> > did. *He demonstrated his competence when he completed his instrument
> > rating. *He demonstrated his competence when he achieved his commercial
> > rating. *He demonstrated his competence by flying thousands of hours of
> > pipeline patrol. *He demonstrated his competence when he completed his
> > biannual CAP mountain qualification. *He demonstrated his competence by
> > becoming a CAP check pilot. *He demonstrated his competence by maintaining
> > his BFR on a yearly basis, and he demonstrated his competence on a monthly
> > basis in order to be qualified to fly the type of mission he was flying..
>
> > James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who was lost
> > in the mountains. *He gave his live as a part of a volunteer organization
> > that helps thousands of people each year, saves dozens of lives, and teaches
> > tens of thousands of kids respect, community involvement, and aviation. *As
> > a part of that organization, James Henderson donated a considerable amount
> > of time , his money, and his skills. *This is an organization that Mr.. Haas
> > proved he has too much ego to be a part. *Now he wants to try and belittle
> > James Henderson and that organization as he tries to pretend he is a more
> > competent and experienced pilot who never does anything stupid. *So draw
> > your own conclusions. *The one I have is that Mr. Haas is nothing more than
> > a blowhard piece of human filth who needs to cast disparity on those who are
> > better than he is in order to inflate his already enormous ego. *YMMV..-
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Ya just can't let go. *A true CAP member..
>
> Fact,,, After all the glowing things you have said about James
> Henderson and all his aviation skills, he is DEAD,,, from his poor
> flying skills, And he killed two other human being during his act of
> stupidity. Somehow you forgot to praise those poor souls..
>
> I can't wait to see your glowing report on Mr Anderson and his fine
> aviating skills.
>
> As you might know going through the ranks of the CAP require you to
> progress from observer, which is rear seat , to scanner, which is
> right front seat to mission pilot. That would be the one Mr James
> Henderson was in. During my first and only SAREX it became quite clear
> that poor ol me, in the rear seat to get "blessed"and move up front, I
> was at the mercy of the piloting skills of "experienced and competent"
> CAP pilots. Ya see, from the rear seat I can't take control of the
> aircraft when said "competent and experienced" *pilots do something
> that might kill me. What I saw *during the first and only SAREX
> conviced me to not continue to put myself at risk and as any good
> pilot would,mitigate those issues which would take my life. I survived
> to fly another day. Guess what Mike, if that really is your name. I
> fly almost every day. Mr James Henderson is not flying anymore.
>
> As with most government organizations the tactic is to kill the
> messenger when they point out flaws in the system. I was and still
> will do what I can to warn other good and safe pilots to think twice
> before getting into a situation that might take their life. *CAP has a
> poor record of safety. Lets look at the Wyoming wing. There were four
> planes, two were destroyed in fatal crashes. That is a 50% loss rate.
> To you CAP guys it must be acceptable, It is definately not acceptable
> to me.
>
> In closing I want to say there are great pilots in the CAP, Bill, the
> local guy is outstanding in his flying skills, the real problem is
> during a training mission or an actual event one gets paired up with
> other flight crews. I will be damned if I am going to be taken out by
> a "competent and experienced" CAP pilot. I am kinda amazed the CAP
> headquarters has not told you to "tone down" and quit scaring away
> future CAP members. You don't see it but your posts are quite clearly
> a detriment to the Air Force and its CAP side show.
>
> PS, Those words in your last rant about me are grounds for a
> defamation suit, and since you work for Microsoft and are probably
> bringing in 6 figures+ a year I would say your assets look pretty
> inviting to a hungry lawyer, and you used Mircosoft's server to post
> it. That, my friend is called "gravy"
>
> Cheers, tailwinds and safe flying guys.
>
> Ben.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

For those not familier with the Henderson crash,, here it is. I am
sure Mike will be able to explain the shortfalls of said flight.


DEN07FA140
HISTORY OF FLIGHT

On August 20, 2007, approximately 1630 mountain daylight time, a
Cessna 182R, N6109N, operated by the Civil Air Patrol as CAPS flight
4940, was destroyed when it impacted terrain 20 miles west of Dayton,
Wyoming. A post impact fire ensued. Visual meteorological conditions
prevailed. The search and rescue flight was being operated under the
provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 without a
flight plan. The commercial pilot, a pilot rated passenger (scanner
trainee) and one observer were fatally injured. The flight departed
Sheridan County Airport (SHR), Sheridan, Wyoming, approximately 1530.

According to the Civil Air Patrol (CAP) and the Sheridan County
Sheriff's office, the accident airplane departed Cowley, Wyoming, at
an undetermined time, in order to pick up two observers in Sheridan,
for a missing hiker search and rescue mission in the Big Horn
Mountains. One of the observers on the accident flight contacted the
United States Forest Service approximately 1430 with regards to the
temporary flight restriction (TFR 7/3431 Bone Creek Incident) over the
Big Horn Mountains. The intended search area for the Civil Air Patrol
mission included the perimeter of the TFR. It was determined that CAPS
flight 4940 would not be a factor for the TFR. Communication
frequencies and procedures were established with the US Forest Service
prior to departure from SHR.

According to a US Forest Service pilot, communication with the
accident airplane was established approximately 1550. The CAP airplane
reported that they were "maneuvering above their search area" and they
were at a higher altitude "familiarizing themselves with the terrain."
The incident commander for the Garland Gulch fire (part of the Bone
Creek Incident) reported observing an airplane, consistent in
appearance with the accident airplane, fly "slowly" over his location
in a north, northwest direction, towards the Lake and Lick Creek
drainages. The witness stated that the airplane was approximately "400
to 600 [feet] above the ground. There was no apparent indication of
trouble in performance of the aircraft, nor did it dip its wings or
anything else remarkable." He stated that the airplane did not return
to his area.

At 1756, the search and rescue teams on the ground located the missing
hiker. Approximately the same time, an aerial team working on the Bone
Creek Incident discovered another fire three miles north of where the
hiker was located, along the Lick Creek Canyon. Several water drops
were made on the fire and the wreckage of the accident airplane was
discovered approximately .75 miles from the ridge of Lick Creek
Canyon, on the east wall of the canyon.

PERSONNEL INFORMATION

The pilot, age 49, held a commercial pilot certificate with an
airplane single engine land/sea, multi-engine land/sea, and instrument
ratings. He was issued a second class airman medical certificate on
January 9, 2007. The certificate contained the limitation "must wear
corrective lenses." At the time of application, the pilot reported
1,749 hours total time; 105 hours of which were logged within the
previous 6 months. The pilot's personal logbook was not recovered.

According to the CAP, the pilot joined the CAP in April of 2001. His
Mountain Flying Certification with the CAP was successfully completed
on August 10, 2007. According to the CAP Pilot Data Summary sheet
dated May 12, 2007, the pilot reported he had logged 1,803 hours total
time, 1,541 of which were in single engine airplanes. The pilot
reported that his last flight review was conducted on February 27,
2007. His last annual checkride and Mission Check Pilot checkride with
the CAP were both conducted on May 12, 2007.

The pilot rated passenger, age 53, held a commercial pilot certificate
with an airplane single engine land, rotorcraft helicopter, and
instrument helicopter ratings. He was issued a second class airman
medical certificate in August of 2006. The certificate contained no
limitations. According to the CAP, he completed his entry level
training on April 20, 2007, and was a scanner trainee.

The observer had joined the CAP in November of 2003. According to the
CAP, she was trained as a mission observer, mission scanner, and
skills evaluator.

AIRCRAFT INFORMATION

The accident airplane, a Cessna 182R (serial number 18267787), was
manufactured in 1981. It was registered with the Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA) on a standard airworthiness certificate for
normal operations. The airplane was powered by a Teledyne Continental
Motors O-470 U engine rated at 230 horsepower at 2,400 rpm. The engine
was equipped with a two-blade, McCauley propeller.

The airplane was registered to and operated by the Civil Air Patrol,
and was maintained under an annual inspection program. The maintenance
records were in the airplane at the time of the accident and were
destroyed. According to the Civil Air Patrol records, the last
recorded maintenance performed was an oil change and filter inspection
on April 13, 2007, at an aircraft total time of 3,537.9 hours. The
last 100-hour/annual inspection was completed on September 14, 2006,
at an aircraft total time of 3,492.6 hours.

METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS

Aviation area forecasts were issued for Wyoming by the Aviation
Weather Center, the day of the accident. The area forecast for
northwestern Wyoming was as follows: sky condition, scattered at
15,000 feet; winds out of the west, gusting to 25 knots. The area
forecast for northeastern Wyoming was as follows: sky condition,
clear; occasional visibility 3 to 5 statute miles in smoke. The
terminal forecast for Sheridan for the time period closest to the
accident flight was as follows: winds 340 at 4 knots; visibility, 4
statute miles, smoke; sky condition, few clouds at 10,000 feet,
scattered at 20,000 feet.

The winds aloft forecasts were issued for the accident airplanes route
of flight for Billings (BIL), Montana, (75 miles north, northwest of
the accident site) and Crazy Woman (CZI), Wyoming (85 miles southeast
of the accident site.) The forecast from 1100 to 1500 was as follows:
BIL - 9,000 feet, 280 degrees at 29 knots, 12,000 feet, 280 degrees at
35 knots; CZI - 9,000 feet, 270 degrees at 17 knots, 12,000 feet, 280
degrees at 38 knots. The forecast from 1500 to 2400 was as follows:
BIL - 9,000 feet, 280 degrees at 22 knots, 12,000 feet, 250 degrees at
22 knots; CZI - 9,000 feet, 260 degrees at 14 knots, 12,000 feet, 260
degrees at 23 knots.

Airman's Meteorological Information (AIRMET) for turbulence (TANGO)
was issued for areas in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming, including the
accident airplane's route of flight. AIRMET TANGO covered an area from
50 nautical miles (nm) north, northwest of Williston, North Dakota, to
50 nm west, southwest of Rapid City, South Dakota, to 50 nm east,
northeast of Salt Lake City, Utah, to Jackson, Wyoming, to 40 nm south
of Cranbrook, Canada. The AIRMET stated to expect moderate turbulence
below 14,000 feet. There were no AIRMETS for icing, instrument flight
rules, or mountain obscuration for the accident airplane's route of
flight.

The spot forecast for the Garland Gulch Fire, issued by the National
Weather Service in Billings, Montana, forecasted winds west, to
northwest at 10 to 15 mph, with gusts to 25 mph for the slopes and
valleys. Ridgetop winds were forecast to be out of the west at 25 to
40 miles per hour.

The closest official aviation weather observation station was Sheridan
County Airport (SHR), Sheridan, Wyoming, located 35 nm east of the
accident site. The elevation of the weather observation station was
4,021 feet mean sea level (msl). The routine aviation weather report
(METAR) for SHR, issued at 1553, reported, winds, calm; visibility, 3
statute miles, haze; temperature 23 degrees Celsius (C); dewpoint, 03
degrees C; altimeter, 29.94 inches.

Two fire weather observation stations were located within 10 miles of
the accident site. The Boyd Ridge (BYDW4) station was located 5 miles
northwest of the accident site, at an elevation of 7,740 feet msl. The
observation for BYDW4, recorded at 1655, reported winds from the
north, northwest at 9 miles per hour (mph) with gusts to 21 mph. The
Burgess (BUJW4) station was located 8 nautical miles southeast of the
accident site at an elevation of 7,743 feet msl. The observation for
BUJW4, recorded at 1649, reported winds from the west, southwest at 12
mph with gusts to 25 mph. Visibility was not reported at either
station.

The pilot of the aircraft that located the initial fire noted that
there were "high winds and surface friction causing turbulence." There
was no record of the pilot obtaining a weather briefing from the FAA
Flight Service Station or the Direct User Access Terminal System
(DUATS).

WRECKAGE AND IMPACT INFORMATION

The National Transportation Safety Board investigator-in-charge (IIC)
arrived on scene approximately 1000 on August 23, 2007. The accident
site was located on the east side of a vegetated canyon wall. A global
positioning system receiver reported the coordinates of the main
wreckage as 44 degrees 51 minutes 37.2 seconds north latitude, and 107
degrees 40 minutes 17.6 seconds west longitude. The accident site was
at an elevation of 7,650 feet msl and the airplane impacted on a
magnetic heading of 010 degrees.

The tops of several pine trees were broken in the direction of the
main wreckage. An airplane antenna and paint chips were located
directly below these trees. A debris field extended from the initial
impact point, north, approximately 50 feet, to the right wing and a
large burn area. The wing exhibited aft accordion crushing, torn
metal, and was charred, melted, and partially consumed by fire. The
right aileron and flap were consumed by fire. Aileron cable continuity
was confirmed from the aileron bell crank, inboard to the wing root.
The cable end failure was consistent with tension overload.

The debris field and burn area continued in a northeast direction, in
down-sloping terrain. The propeller assembly separated from the engine
and was located approximately 50 feet north of the right wing. The
propeller blades were arbitrarily labeled "A" and "B" for
identification purposes only. Blade "A" was bowed forward
approximately 60 degrees and exhibited leading edge scratches and
chord wise scratches. Blade "B" was bowed aft approximately 45 degrees
and exhibited leading edge knicks, and chord wise scratches. The
throttle control separated from the fuselage and was partially melted.
It was secured in a position 1.5 inches aft of a full forward
position.

The main wreckage, to include portions of the empennage, fuselage, and
left wing, came to rest inverted, approximately 140 feet from the
initial impact point. The wreckage exhibited extensive crushing and
torn metal due to impact damage. The wreckage was charred, melted, and
consumed by fire. The instrument panel was destroyed, and various
instruments scattered downhill from the main wreckage. The vertical
speed indicator (VSI) indicated a rate of descent of 1,900 feet per
minute. The bottom portion of the directional gyro gave an indication
of 190 degrees.

Rudder cable control continuity was established from the rudder pedals
aft, to the "tail cone" area. Control cable continuity for the left
aileron was established from the aileron bell crank, inboard, to the
wing root. Elevator control continuity was established from the
elevator bell cranks, forward, to the "tail cone" area. Signatures
consistent with tension overload were observed in all of the cables.
The trim tab actuator for the elevator was measured at 1 inch.
According to Cessna, this is consistent with 10 degrees tab down. The
flap jackscrew exposed 5.8 inches of threads. According to Cessna,
this is consistent with 40 degrees of flaps.

The engine separated from the airplane and came to rest approximately
100 feet downhill (east) of the main wreckage. It exhibited no
apparent fire damage. The vacuum pump, alternator, and left magneto
separated from the engine and were not located. The top bank of spark
plugs were removed and the engine was partially rotated by the
crankshaft propeller flange. Movement of all six pistons was noted.
The right magneto was removed and rotated by hand. Spark was observed
on all six leads. Due to impact damage, tactile compression could not
be confirmed.

MEDICAL AND PATHOLOGICAL INFORMATION

The autopsy was performed by the office of Forensic Medicine and
Pathology, PLLC, Billings, Montana, on August 21, 2007, as authorized
by the Sheridan County Coroner's office. The autopsy revealed the
cause of death as "blunt traumatic injuries."

During the autopsy, specimens were collected for toxicological testing
to be performed by the FAA's Civil Aerospace Medical Institute,
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma (CAMI Reference #200700197001). Tests for
carbon monoxide, and cyanide were not performed. Tests for ethanol
were negative. Ibuprofen was detected in the urine.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

According to the CAP policies and procedures, the pilot will obtain a
weather briefing from an FAA weather briefer. They will share the
contents of the weather briefing with their crew. While operating the
aircraft in mountainous terrain, the pilot should adjust the search
altitude, based upon the winds aloft. For 10 knots of wind, the pilot
shall add 1,000 feet to the search altitude - 20 knots of wind results
in an addition of 2,000 feet added to the search altitude.

The CAP Mountain Furry - Mountain Search Pilot Course Guide states
that more "than 30 knots of wind at the operating altitude usually
denotes that the flight should be delayed or postponed until more
favorable conditions prevail." The text continues to state that
"mission search pilots may fly as close as 500 to 1,000 feet from
mountain ridges and terrain (providing the wind allows this
operation)."

According to the CAP Mission Flight Plan/Briefing Form, the mission
was going to use multiple search patterns at a search altitude of
1,000 feet above ground level and a search airspeed of 100 knots. They
were searching the northern half of grid 518 on the Billings Sectional
Chart. Hazards to this particular flight were noted as winds, smoke,
and firefighting.

Parties to the investigation included the Civil Air Patrol, Cessna
Aircraft Company, Teledyne Continental Motors, the United Stated Air
Force, and the FAA as represented through the Casper, Flight Standards
Field Office. The wreckage was released to a representative of the
Civil Air Patrol on December 7, 2007.




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[romeomike]

Mike wrote:

>
> James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who was
> lost in the mountains.

I have no disrespect for the man or the CAP, but I'm curious as to what,
in your opinion, was the cause of those poor souls losing their lives?

[Mike]

> wrote in message
...
> On Sep 23, 12:13 am, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> > You're assuming he has 30 years of flying, as we only have his word on
> > that.
> > You are correct in that ratings aren't the only thing required to
> > demonstrate competence, but what exactly has he done to demonstrate
> > competence other than keep himself alive for his 50 or unfathomable or
> > whatever hours he actually does have? One thing I do know is that Lt.
> > Col
> > James Henderson managed to keep himself alive flying for more years that
> > he
> > did. He demonstrated his competence when he completed his instrument
> > rating. He demonstrated his competence when he achieved his commercial
> > rating. He demonstrated his competence by flying thousands of hours of
> > pipeline patrol. He demonstrated his competence when he completed his
> > biannual CAP mountain qualification. He demonstrated his competence by
> > becoming a CAP check pilot. He demonstrated his competence by
> > maintaining
> > his BFR on a yearly basis, and he demonstrated his competence on a
> > monthly
> > basis in order to be qualified to fly the type of mission he was flying.
> >
> > James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who was
> > lost
> > in the mountains. He gave his live as a part of a volunteer organization
> > that helps thousands of people each year, saves dozens of lives, and
> > teaches
> > tens of thousands of kids respect, community involvement, and aviation.
> > As
> > a part of that organization, James Henderson donated a considerable
> > amount
> > of time , his money, and his skills. This is an organization that Mr.
> > Haas
> > proved he has too much ego to be a part. Now he wants to try and
> > belittle
> > James Henderson and that organization as he tries to pretend he is a
> > more
> > competent and experienced pilot who never does anything stupid. So draw
> > your own conclusions. The one I have is that Mr. Haas is nothing more
> > than
> > a blowhard piece of human filth who needs to cast disparity on those who
> > are
> > better than he is in order to inflate his already enormous ego. YMMV.-
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Ya just can't let go. A true CAP member..
>
> Fact,,, After all the glowing things you have said about James
> Henderson and all his aviation skills, he is DEAD,,, from his poor
> flying skills, And he killed two other human being during his act of
> stupidity. Somehow you forgot to praise those poor souls..

As yet, you haven't defammed them, so I saw no need.

> I can't wait to see your glowing report on Mr Anderson and his fine
> aviating skills.

I'm only pointing out that in all likelihood, both pilots were far more
competent and experienced than you will probably ever become in the rest of
your pathetic life.

> >
> > As you might know going through the ranks of the CAP require you to
> > progress from observer, which is rear seat , to scanner, which is
> > right front seat to mission pilot. That would be the one Mr James
> > Henderson was in. During my first and only SAREX it became quite clear
> > that poor ol me, in the rear seat to get "blessed"and move up front, I
> > was at the mercy of the piloting skills of "experienced and competent"
> > CAP pilots. Ya see, from the rear seat I can't take control of the
> > aircraft when said "competent and experienced" pilots do something
> > that might kill me. What I saw during the first and only SAREX
> > conviced me to not continue to put myself at risk and as any good
> > pilot would,mitigate those issues which would take my life. I survived
> > to fly another day. Guess what Mike, if that really is your name. I
> > fly almost every day. Mr James Henderson is not flying anymore.

I'm sure the looking through your own distorted version of reality, few
measure up to the vast experience and competency you've demonstrated, eh?

> As with most government organizations the tactic is to kill the
> messenger when they point out flaws in the system. I was and still
> will do what I can to warn other good and safe pilots to think twice
> before getting into a situation that might take their life. CAP has a
> poor record of safety. Lets look at the Wyoming wing. There were four
> planes, two were destroyed in fatal crashes. That is a 50% loss rate.
> To you CAP guys it must be acceptable, It is definately not acceptable
> to me.

"kill the messenger"? How funny. Do you actually think you can belittle a
deceased person who was several times the man you will ever be without
drawing any scrutiny on yourself?

> In closing I want to say there are great pilots in the CAP, Bill, the
> local guy is outstanding in his flying skills, the real problem is
> during a training mission or an actual event one gets paired up with
> other flight crews. I will be damned if I am going to be taken out by
> a "competent and experienced" CAP pilot. I am kinda amazed the CAP
> headquarters has not told you to "tone down" and quit scaring away
> future CAP members. You don't see it but your posts are quite clearly
> a detriment to the Air Force and its CAP side show.

.....sez the piece of human filth who defames people who can't possibly
defend themselves.

> PS, Those words in your last rant about me are grounds for a
> defamation suit, and since you work for Microsoft and are probably
> bringing in 6 figures+ a year I would say your assets look pretty
> inviting to a hungry lawyer, and you used Mircosoft's server to post
> it. That, my friend is called "gravy"

I do make 6 figures, sunshine. My IP address is listed in all my headers.
Bring it on if you think you can. Feel free to list the exact phrase you
feel qualifies as defamation. Meanwhile you might be interested to know
defamation can also be charged by the estate of a deceased person on their
behalf. Are you so secure in your own assertions?

[Mike]

"romeomike" > wrote in message
...
> Mike wrote:
>
>>
>> James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who was
>> lost in the mountains.
>
> I have no disrespect for the man or the CAP, but I'm curious as to what,
> in your opinion, was the cause of those poor souls losing their lives?

I don't care to speculate because too many variables exist to make any sort
of meaningful determination. It's quite possible that Lt. Col Henderson
encountered conditions that few pilots could have ever recovered. Mountain
flying is hazardous under the best of conditions, and they certainly didn't
have the best of conditions that day. Sparky Imeson crashed just a few
months ago while giving instruction. That sure as hell doesn't mean that
Mr. Haas is a better, more competent, more experienced, or smarter pilot
than he is simply because he has never faced similar consequences, although
I'm sure he might argue otherwise using his distorted logic.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 23, 5:11*pm, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> "romeomike" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Mike wrote:
>
> >> James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who was
> >> lost in the mountains.
>
> > I have no disrespect for the man or the CAP, but I'm curious as to what,
> > in your opinion, was the cause of those poor souls losing their lives?
>
> I don't care to speculate because too many variables exist to make any sort
> of meaningful determination. *It's quite possible that Lt. Col Henderson
> encountered conditions that few pilots could have ever recovered. *Mountain
> flying is hazardous under the best of conditions, and they certainly didn't
> have the best of conditions that day. *Sparky Imeson crashed just a few
> months ago while giving instruction. *That sure as hell doesn't mean that
> Mr. Haas is a better, more competent, more experienced, or smarter pilot
> than he is simply because he has never faced similar consequences, although
> I'm sure he might argue otherwise using his distorted logic.

Straight from the NTSB report.. Mike seems to have overlooked this
very important part. During my first few hours of flight training,
gathering weather info was foremost in being able to perform a safe
and uneventful flight.... Any one flying in the mountians is even more
sensitive to this.


NTSB .>>>>>The pilot of the aircraft that located the initial fire
noted that
there were "high winds and surface friction causing turbulence."
There
was no record of the pilot obtaining a weather briefing from the FAA
Flight Service Station or the Direct User Access Terminal System
(DUATS).


My distorted logic concludes he didn't do what any low time pilot
would have.. Check the friggin WEATHER !!!!!!

I am not wasting any more time explaining the facts that are on record
to Mike. Altho that is probably not his real name. Just by clicking on
the view profile box that shows up on my google usenet reader is shows
he visited some computer areas. No where is the name Mike showing up.

over and OUT.

Ben.

Hey , thats my real name too.

[Mike]

> wrote in message
...
> > On Sep 23, 5:11 pm, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > "romeomike" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > Mike wrote:
> > >
> > > >> James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who
> > > >> was
> > > >> lost in the mountains.
> > >
> > > > I have no disrespect for the man or the CAP, but I'm curious as to
> > > > what,
> > > > in your opinion, was the cause of those poor souls losing their
> > > > lives?
> > >
> > > I don't care to speculate because too many variables exist to make any
> > > sort
> > > of meaningful determination. It's quite possible that Lt. Col
> > > Henderson
> > > encountered conditions that few pilots could have ever recovered.
> > > Mountain
> > > flying is hazardous under the best of conditions, and they certainly
> > > didn't
> > > have the best of conditions that day. Sparky Imeson crashed just a few
> > > months ago while giving instruction. That sure as hell doesn't mean
> > > that
> > > Mr. Haas is a better, more competent, more experienced, or smarter
> > > pilot
> > > than he is simply because he has never faced similar consequences,
> > > although
> > > I'm sure he might argue otherwise using his distorted logic.
> >
> > Straight from the NTSB report.. Mike seems to have overlooked this
> > very important part. During my first few hours of flight training,
> > gathering weather info was foremost in being able to perform a safe
> > and uneventful flight.... Any one flying in the mountians is even more
> > sensitive to this.
>
>
> NTSB .>>>>>The pilot of the aircraft that located the initial fire
> noted that
> there were "high winds and surface friction causing turbulence."
> There
> was no record of the pilot obtaining a weather briefing from the FAA
> Flight Service Station or the Direct User Access Terminal System
> (DUATS).
>
>
> My distorted logic concludes he didn't do what any low time pilot
> would have.. Check the friggin WEATHER !!!!!!

How do you know he DIDN'T check the weather, Benny? FSS or DUATs might be
the official source, but thousands of pilots every day use other sources for
their information, especially during August of 2007 when many locations had
TWO HOUR HOLD TIMES to get through to a FSS briefer, assuming they could get
through at all. Clearly according to the NTSB report Lt. Col Henderson was
well aware of the TFR which means he was getting his information from
somewhere. If you were smart enough to read more NTSB reports, you'd find a
very large percentage of them have the exact same statement. That doesn't
even begin to mean that you're more competent, more experienced, or a better
pilot (as you allege) than all of them. You sure are a dumb oaf for someone
who claims to be smarter than everyone else, Benny.

>
> I am not wasting any more time explaining the facts that are on record
> to Mike. Altho that is probably not his real name. Just by clicking on
> the view profile box that shows up on my google usenet reader is shows
> he visited some computer areas. No where is the name Mike showing up.

Probably because you're too stupid to realize your hi-tech google usenet
reader keys on the email field for the profile which means that anyone using
the generic "nospam@ microsoft.com" in the email field would show up in that
profile. You sure are a dumb oaf for someone who claims to be smarter than
everyone else, Benny.

>
> over and OUT.
>
> Ben.
>
> Hey , thats my real name too.

No doubt. That's because you choose to spam most of your replies with the
web site of your half-fast business, Benny, so it wouldn't make much sense
for you to do anything differently now would it?

[Jim Logajan]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
....
> anyone using the generic "nospam@ microsoft.com" in the email field
....

That's not the proper "generic" way to do what you want. RFC 2606 outlines
best practices - and has for the last 9 years. If you want to use an
invalid address, use something like . The address you
are using would, if it does anything, cause some extra spam to flow toward
Microsoft's e-mail servers.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Jim Logajan > wrote in
:

> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> ...
>> anyone using the generic "nospam@ microsoft.com" in the email field
> ...
>
> That's not the proper "generic" way to do what you want. RFC 2606
> outlines best practices - and has for the last 9 years. If you want to
> use an invalid address, use something like . The
> address you are using would, if it does anything, cause some extra
> spam to flow toward Microsoft's e-mail servers.
>

There's a down side here, is there?

Bertie

[Mike]

"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> ...
>> anyone using the generic "nospam@ microsoft.com" in the email field
> ...
>
> That's not the proper "generic" way to do what you want. RFC 2606 outlines
> best practices - and has for the last 9 years. If you want to use an
> invalid address, use something like . The address you
> are using would, if it does anything, cause some extra spam to flow toward
> Microsoft's e-mail servers.

Well, also sometimes I don't hold my pinky out when I'm drinking tea.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
:

> "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
>> ...
>>> anyone using the generic "nospam@ microsoft.com" in the email field
>> ...
>>
>> That's not the proper "generic" way to do what you want. RFC 2606
>> outlines best practices - and has for the last 9 years. If you want
>> to use an invalid address, use something like .
>> The address you are using would, if it does anything, cause some
>> extra spam to flow toward Microsoft's e-mail servers.
>
> Well, also sometimes I don't hold my pinky out when I'm drinking tea.
>
>

Savage

Bertie

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > ...
| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
| >| ...
| >| >
| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| > ...
| >| > | "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| >| > | :
| >| > |
| >| > | > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| > | > ...
| >| > | >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| >| > | >> :
| >| > | >>
| >| > | >>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| > | >>> ...
| >| > | >>>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| > | >>>> :
| >| > | >>>>
| >| > | >>>>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems
| >| > | >>>>> to be variable. Just two days ago, there were three
| >| > | >>>>> officers in
| > uniform,
| >| > | >>>>> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's
| >| > | >>>>> at a local disaster drill.
| >| > | >>>>>
| >| > | >>>>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us
| >| > | >>>>> (he
| > had
| >| > | >>>>> a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how
| >| > | >>>>> are you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would
| >| > | >>>>> have
| > been
| >| > | >>>>> welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with
| >| > | >>>>> some
| > ways
| >| > | >>>>> we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our
| >| > | >>>>> disaster preparedness.
| >| > | >>>>>
| >| > | >>>>
| >| > | >>>>
| >| > | >>>> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| >| > | >>>> personell are as
| >| > | >>>> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not
| >| > | >>>> qualified to be a security gaurd in a mall.
| >| > | >>>
| >| > | >>> This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a
| >| > | >>> mixed
| > bag.
| >| > | >>> Many members were in the real air force and many have retired
| >| > | >>> from the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real
| >| > | >>> colonels in
| > the
| >| > | >>> real USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like to
| >| > | >>> fly and have fun and could care less about the pretend
| >| > | >>> military gig. The pretend air force aspect of CAP is mostly
| >| > | >>> for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not make
| >| > | >>> one an officer, although there are many who seem to think it
| >| > | >>> does. For senior members, there's also the option of wearing
| >| > | >>> CAP distinctive uniforms which display
| > no
| >| > | >>> rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those who
| >| > | >>> don't really want to pretend they are in the military.
| >| > | >>>
| >| > | >>>
| >| > | >>
| >| > | >> Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP,
| >| > | >> They
| > are
| >| > | >> in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
| >| > | >
| >| > | > It all depends on the squadron you're in. Some are more into
| >| > | > the flying aspect and less into the pretend military aspect.
| >| > | > Those tend to be the more capable squadrons for air ops because
| >| > | > they are less tolerant of pilots who can't fly their thumb up
| >| > | > their arse. At
| > least
| >| > | > in my observations. There's lots of CAP pilots who don't ever
| >| > | > fly unless it's on the CAP dime. As such they may go 3-4
| >| > | > months without flying at all. Those types of guys aren't well
| >| > | > tolerated in
| > squadrons
| >| > | > that are more serious about the flying aspect.
| >| > |
| >| > |
| >| > | Whatever turns them on. Not worth my time to even think about
| >| > | them, mostly.
| >| > |
| >| > | bertie
| >| > |
| >| >
| >| > I seriously doubt they give a **** what you think. Most intelligent
| > people
| >| > don't.
| >|
| >| That explains why you reply to each of his posts.
| >|
| >
| >
| >
|
|
|

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > .. .
| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
| >|
| >| >
| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| > ...
| >| >| "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| >| >| :
| >| >|
| >| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| >| > ...
| >| >| >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| >| >| >> :
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| >| >>> ...
| >| >| >>>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| >| >>>> :
| >| >| >>>>
| >| >| >>>>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to
| be
| >| >| >>>>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
| >| >| >>>>> uniform, two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set
| of
| >| >| >>>>> BDU's at a local disaster drill.
| >| >| >>>>>
| >| >| >>>>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us
| (he
| >| >| >>>>> had a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say
| how
| >| >| >>>>> are you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would
| >| >| >>>>> have been welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up
| >| >| >>>>> with some ways we could work with CAP and the military to
| >| >| >>>>> enhance our disaster preparedness.
| >| >| >>>>>
| >| >| >>>>
| >| >| >>>>
| >| >| >>>> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| >| >| >>>> personell are as
| >| >| >>>> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not
| >| >| >>>> qualified to be a security gaurd in a mall.
| >| >| >>>
| >| >| >>> This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed
| >| >| >>> bag. Many members were in the real air force and many have
| >| >| >>> retired from the same. I know several CAP colonels who were
| real
| >| >| >>> colonels in the real USAF. There's also a lot of members who
| >| >| >>> just like to fly and have fun and could care less about the
| >| >| >>> pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of CAP is
| >| >| >>> mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not
| make
| >| >| >>> one an officer, although there are many who seem to think it
| >| >| >>> does. For senior members, there's also the option of wearing
| CAP
| >| >| >>> distinctive uniforms which display no rank insignia. That's
| the
| >| >| >>> option preferred by those who don't really want to pretend
| they
| >| >| >>> are in the military.
| >| >| >>>
| >| >| >>>
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >> Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP,
| They
| >| >| >> are in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
| >| >| >
| >| >| > It all depends on the squadron you're in. Some are more into
| the
| >| >| > flying aspect and less into the pretend military aspect. Those
| >| >| > tend to be the more capable squadrons for air ops because they
| are
| >| >| > less tolerant of pilots who can't fly their thumb up their arse.
| >| >| > At least in my observations. There's lots of CAP pilots who
| don't
| >| >| > ever fly unless it's on the CAP dime. As such they may go 3-4
| >| >| > months without flying at all. Those types of guys aren't well
| >| >| > tolerated in squadrons that are more serious about the flying
| >| >| > aspect.
| >| >|
| >| >|
| >| >| Whatever turns them on. Not worth my time to even think about
| them,
| >| >| mostly.
| >| >|
| >| >| bertie
| >| >|
| >| >
| >| > I seriously doubt they give a **** what you think. Most intelligent
| >| > people don't.
| >| >
| >| >
| >|
| >| I don;'t care.
| >|
| >|
| >| And you obviously are obvlivious to everything outside of your own
| world
| >| view, which pretty much just consists of your illoeceal valve.
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >| >
| >|
| >
| > Exactly the problem. You don't care about anything, or anyone, except
| > yourself.
| >
| > That's one of your many illnesses.
| >
|
|
| C'mon Maxine, another IKYABWAI poast?
|
| I know you can't do any better, but at least mix them up with some gay
| lames or something.
|
|
| Bertie

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > .. .
| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
| >|
| >| >
| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| > ...
| >| >| "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| >| >| :
| >| >|
| >| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| >| > ...
| >| >| >> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| >| >> :
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to
| be
| >| >| >>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
| >| >| >>> uniform, two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of
| >| >| >>> BDU's at a local disaster drill.
| >| >| >>>
| >| >| >>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he
| >| >| >>> had a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say
| how
| >| >| >>> are you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would
| have
| >| >| >>> been welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with
| some
| >| >| >>> ways we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our
| >| >| >>> disaster preparedness.
| >| >| >>>
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| >| >| >> personell are as
| >| >| >> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not
| qualified
| >| >| >> to be a security gaurd in a mall.
| >| >| >
| >| >| > This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed
| bag.
| >| >| > Many members were in the real air force and many have retired
| from
| >| >| > the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in
| >| >| > the real USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like to
| fly
| >| >| > and have fun and could care less about the pretend military gig.
| >| >| > The pretend air force aspect of CAP is mostly for the cadets.
| >| >| > Paying $70 per year in dues does not make one an officer,
| although
| >| >| > there are many who seem to think it does. For senior members,
| >| >| > there's also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms
| which
| >| >| > display no rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those
| who
| >| >| > don't really want to pretend they are in the military.
| >| >| >
| >| >| >
| >| >|
| >| >| Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP, They
| are
| >| >| in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
| >| >|
| >| >|
| >| >| Bertie
| >| >
| >| > That's because you have never finished anything. If they won't let
| you
| >| > run it, you pout and go home.
| >| >
| >|
| >|
| >| Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahhw!
| >|
| >| Back to the battleship flame technique, eh lamer?
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
| Miss!
|
|
| Bertie

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
|
| And yet I still have you pegged, Okie.
|
|

You couldn't peg your own rectum. I'm not an Okie, Slick.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > ...
| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
| >| ...
| >| >
| >| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| >| > ...
| >| > | "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| > | ...
| >| > | > "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| > | > :
| >| > | >
| >| > | >> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to
| >| > | >> be variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
| >| > | >> uniform,
| >| > two
| >| > | >> Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
| >| > | >> local disaster drill.
| >| > | >>
| >| > | >> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he
| >| > | >> had
| > a
| >| > | >> first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are
| >| > | >> you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have
| >| > | >> been
| > welcome
| >| > | >> to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some ways we
| >| > | >> could work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
| > preparedness.
| >| > | >>
| >| > | >
| >| > | >
| >| > | > They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| >| > | > personell
| >| > are
| >| > | > as
| >| > | > crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not
| >| > | > qualified to
| >| > be
| >| > a
| >| > | > security gaurd in a mall.
| >| > |
| >| > | This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed
| >| > | bag.
| >| > Many
| >| > | members were in the real air force and many have retired from the
| > same.
| >| > I
| >| > | know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in the real
| >| > | USAF.
| >| > There's
| >| > | also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun and could
| >| > | care
| >| > less
| >| > | about the pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of
| >| > | CAP
| > is
| >| > | mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not make
| >| > | one
| > an
| >| > | officer, although there are many who seem to think it does. For
| > senior
| >| > | members, there's also the option of wearing CAP distinctive
| >| > | uniforms
| >| > which
| >| > | display no rank insignia. That's the option preferred by those
| >| > | who
| >| > don't
| >| > | really want to pretend they are in the military.
| >| > |
| >| >
| >| > Gee Mikey Mouth. I didn't know you were a CAP wanna be.
| >|
| >| I figured out you were a pilot-wannabe some time ago, Okie.
| >|
| >
| > One of the many thousands of things you know nothing about.
| >
| >
| >
|
|
|

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > .. .
| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
| >|
| >| >
| >| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| >| > ...
| >| >| "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| >| ...
| >| >| > "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| >| > :
| >| >| >
| >| >| >> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| >| >| >> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
| uniform,
| >| >| >> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at
| a
| >| >| >> local disaster drill.
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he
| had
| >| >| >> a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are
| >| >| >> you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have
| been
| >| >| >> welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some
| ways
| >| >| >> we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
| >| >| >> preparedness.
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >
| >| >| >
| >| >| > They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| >| >| > personell are as
| >| >| > crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not
| qualified
| >| >| > to be
| >| > a
| >| >| > security gaurd in a mall.
| >| >|
| >| >| This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed
| bag.
| >| >| Many members were in the real air force and many have retired from
| >| >| the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels in
| the
| >| >| real USAF.
| >| > There's
| >| >| also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun and could
| >| >| care
| >| > less
| >| >| about the pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect of
| CAP
| >| >| is mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not
| make
| >| >| one an officer, although there are many who seem to think it does.
| >| >| For senior members, there's also the option of wearing CAP
| >| >| distinctive uniforms which display no rank insignia. That's the
| >| >| option preferred by those who don't really want to pretend they
| are
| >| >| in the military.
| >| >|
| >| >
| >| > Gee Mikey Mouth. I didn't know you were a CAP wanna be.
| >|
| >|
| >|
| >| Would you please make this a little more difficult for me?
| >|
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >| >
| >| >
| >| >
| >|
| >
| > Nothing is too difficult for a wanna boi.
| >
|
| I disagree, you can't even poast properly.
|
|
| Bertie

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > .. .
| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
| >|
| >| >
| >| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| >| > news:QsuBk.442$UB3.137@trnddc07...
| >| >
| >| > Hey! Mikey Mouths tricycle has a reverse!
| >| >
| >| >
| >| >
| >|
| >| Hey Maxine is a fjukkwit.
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >
| >
| >
|
|
|

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > .. .
| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
| >|
| >| >
| >| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| >| > ...
| >| >|
| >| >| On the other side of that coin there are those who expect to join
| CAP
| >| >| and think they have a "right" to start flying missions the next
| day
| >| >| because
| >| > they
| >| >| have X number of ratings or whatever, or they are simply a low
| time
| >| >| pilot who wants to fly CAP planes on the cheap, yet contribute
| >| >| nothing to the organization. Or they simply join up one day and
| >| >| expect the organization
| >| > to
| >| >| bend around them rather than wanting to be part of a team. Many
| of
| >| >| them wind up like you and quit. Good ridance, I say. CAP has
| over
| >| >| 500
| >| > aircraft
| >| >| in their fleet, so it should come as no surprise that they are
| going
| >| >| to auger one in now and then. The nature of the business involves
| >| >| some level of risk. Of the crashes you mentioned, all involved
| very
| >| >| experienced and competent pilots. Perhaps they did do something
| >| >| stupid, but if you think you are smarter than they were, or a
| better
| >| >| pilot, you have the type of attitude that often leads to a smoking
| >| >| crater at the end of your flying career.
| >| >|
| >| >|
| >| >
| >| > Are you in uniform? Did you salute Viperquack's first post?
| >| >
| >| >
| >| Pretty funny coming from someone who salutes janitors.
| >|
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >| >
| >|
| >
| > Interesting how easy you can lie.
| >
| >
| >
|
| Really?
|
|
| What lie, fanboi?
|
|
| Bertie

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > .. .
| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
| >|
| >| >
| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| > ...
| >| >| "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| >| :
| >| >|
| >| >| > The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to be
| >| >| > variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
| uniform,
| >| >| > two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's at a
| >| >| > local disaster drill.
| >| >| >
| >| >| > Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us (he
| had
| >| >| > a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how are
| >| >| > you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have
| been
| >| >| > welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some
| ways
| >| >| > we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our disaster
| >| >| > preparedness.
| >| >| >
| >| >|
| >| >|
| >| >| They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
| personell
| >| >| are
| >| > as
| >| >| crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not qualified
| to
| >| >| be a security gaurd in a mall.
| >| >|
| >| >|
| >| >| Bertie
| >| >
| >| > How can you tell when someone is crazy. You have no frame of
| >| > reference.
| >|
| >|
| >| Sure I do.
| >|
| >| I have the perfect template in my #1 fanboi
| >|
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >
| > Continue your fantasy.
| >
| >
| >
|
| Oh ouch fanboi
|
|
| Bertie

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > .. .
| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:1qEBk.11758$Il.10027
| @newsfe09.iad:
| >|
| >| >
| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| >| > ...
| >| >| "Viperdoc" > wrote in
| >| >| :
| >| >|
| >| >| > I have been at various airshows, flyins, etc where CAP cadets
| and
| >| >| > adults were present in uniform.
| >| >| >
| >| >| > As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to
| > salute
| >| >| > officers etc?
| >| >|
| >| >|
| >| >| Yep
| >| >|
| >| >|
| >| >| Bertie
| >| >
| >| > gotta link dikk ed.
| >| >
| >| >
| >| >
| >|
| >|
| >| Don't need one.
| >|
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >
| > Didn't think so.
| >
| >
| >
|
| Of course you didn't.
|
|
|
| Bertie

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Viperdoc" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >|I have been at various airshows, flyins, etc where CAP cadets and
| >|adults
| >| were present in uniform.
| >|
| >| As the civilian auxiliary of the Air Force are they expected to
| >| salute officers etc? Are members of the Air Force supposed to salute
| >| CAP members
| > of
| >| higher rank?
| >|
| >| Walking around at these functions it is sometimes hard to tell who
| >| rates a salute or not.
| >|
| >|
| >
| > Aaahwwww, poor baby. Did someone forget to salute doctorjetpilot?
| >
| > Maybe they recognized you.
| >
|
|
| God knows what they'd do if they recognised you.
|
| I;d rather not think about it myself.
|
|
| Bertie

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
|
| You've had your ticket for all of 18 months and you have no additional
| ratings, yet you think you're more "competent and experienced" than the 2
| other pilots you cast disparity on, both of which were at least commercial
| and instrument rated. What a riot.
|
| Yes, I'm sure CAP sorely missed losing "competent and experienced" pilots
| like you, sunshine. I'm sure your 50 hours or so was experience CAP can
| never replace.
|

Been smoking weed already, and it's just 7 am.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
|
| Not all of the things you mentioned changes the DOI, and the person in
| question has no ratings beyond PP-SEL. So it seems a bit strange that
this
| person has "30 years" of experience as he claims, and nothing farther than
| PP-SEL. Certainly lots of things are possible, but one thing is for sure,
| he has not demonstrated any competencies beyond PP-SEL, and the two
deceased
| pilots he chooses to belittle have demonstrated far more competency than
he
| has.
|

What a dumb ass. You really are clueless.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
|
| You're assuming he has 30 years of flying, as we only have his word on
that.

or your word that you fly at all.

| You are correct in that ratings aren't the only thing required to
| demonstrate competence, but what exactly has he done to demonstrate
| competence other than keep himself alive for his 50 or unfathomable or
| whatever hours he actually does have?

or have you?

One thing I do know is that Lt. Col
| James Henderson managed to keep himself alive flying for more years that
he
| did. He demonstrated his competence when he completed his instrument
| rating. He demonstrated his competence when he achieved his commercial
| rating. He demonstrated his competence by flying thousands of hours of
| pipeline patrol. He demonstrated his competence when he completed his
| biannual CAP mountain qualification. He demonstrated his competence by
| becoming a CAP check pilot. He demonstrated his competence by maintaining
| his BFR on a yearly basis, and he demonstrated his competence on a monthly
| basis in order to be qualified to fly the type of mission he was flying.

You be frothing now lamer.
He demonstrated his competence when he
He demonstrated his competence when he
He demonstrated his competence when he
He demonstrated his competence when he
He demonstrated his competence when he
He demonstrated his competence when he
you sound stuck.

|
| James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who was
lost
| in the mountains. He gave his live as a part of a volunteer organization
| that helps thousands of people each year, saves dozens of lives, and
teaches
| tens of thousands of kids respect, community involvement, and aviation.
As
| a part of that organization, James Henderson donated a considerable amount
| of time , his money, and his skills. This is an organization that Mr.
Haas
| proved he has too much ego to be a part. Now he wants to try and belittle
| James Henderson and that organization as he tries to pretend he is a more
| competent and experienced pilot who never does anything stupid. So draw
| your own conclusions. The one I have is that Mr. Haas is nothing more
than
| a blowhard piece of human filth who needs to cast disparity on those who
are
| better than he is in order to inflate his already enormous ego. YMMV.

Wow man, you like needed a flag flying and some music to with that one man.
Man, that was like beautiful, man.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
|
| I'm only pointing out that in all likelihood, both pilots were far more
| competent and experienced than you will probably ever become in the rest
of
| your pathetic life.

No your not, you're just spouting out like a little kid. You know nothing
about Ben, what's all this probably ****?


| I'm sure the looking through your own distorted version of reality, few
| measure up to the vast experience and competency you've demonstrated, eh?

Your the cross eyed lamer in rose colored glassed here, boi.


|
| I do make 6 figures, sunshine.

Prove it lamer. You act like a janitor around here. I bet you don't even
fly.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
| "romeomike" > wrote in message
| ...
| > Mike wrote:
| >
| >>
| >> James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who was
| >> lost in the mountains.
| >
| > I have no disrespect for the man or the CAP, but I'm curious as to what,
| > in your opinion, was the cause of those poor souls losing their lives?
|
| I don't care to speculate because too many variables exist to make any
sort
| of meaningful determination.

Whaaaaaaaaaa! Speculate is all you do in any thread, Mikey Mouth.


It's quite possible that Lt. Col Henderson
| encountered conditions that few pilots could have ever recovered.
Mountain
| flying is hazardous under the best of conditions, and they certainly
didn't
| have the best of conditions that day. Sparky Imeson crashed just a few
| months ago while giving instruction. That sure as hell doesn't mean that
| Mr. Haas is a better, more competent, more experienced, or smarter pilot
| than he is simply because he has never faced similar consequences,

Nor does it prove that he is not, dumb ass.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
|
| No doubt. That's because you choose to spam most of your replies with the
| web site of your half-fast business, Benny, so it wouldn't make much sense
| for you to do anything differently now would it?
|

That's what this is really all about, isn't it. Your just jealous of Ben
accomplishments. Just like Bertie is of Jay.

[Mike]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | I'm only pointing out that in all likelihood, both pilots were far more
> | competent and experienced than you will probably ever become in the rest
> of
> | your pathetic life.
>
> No your not, you're just spouting out like a little kid. You know nothing
> about Ben, what's all this probably ****?

There's something called the FAA airmen certificate database, Okie. Since
you're not a pilot, you obviously know nothing about it.

> | I'm sure the looking through your own distorted version of reality, few
> | measure up to the vast experience and competency you've demonstrated,
> eh?
>
> Your the cross eyed lamer in rose colored glassed here, boi.

I'm not sure what your subliterate Okie mind is trying to convey here,
Maxie, but you are my cross eyed lamer.

> | I do make 6 figures, sunshine.
>
> Prove it lamer. You act like a janitor around here. I bet you don't even
> fly.

The average FAA employee makes 6 figures, Okie, and I'm well above average.

Now how about you, Maxie? The average Okie makes around $30K and you're
obviously well below average. How's the soup lines?

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
| ...
| >
| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > ...
| > |
| > | I'm only pointing out that in all likelihood, both pilots were far
more
| > | competent and experienced than you will probably ever become in the
rest
| > of
| > | your pathetic life.
| >
| > No your not, you're just spouting out like a little kid. You know
nothing
| > about Ben, what's all this probably ****?
|
| There's something called the FAA airmen certificate database, Okie. Since
| you're not a pilot, you obviously know nothing about it.
|
| > | I'm sure the looking through your own distorted version of reality,
few
| > | measure up to the vast experience and competency you've demonstrated,
| > eh?
| >
| > Your the cross eyed lamer in rose colored glassed here, boi.
|
| I'm not sure what your subliterate Okie mind is trying to convey here,
| Maxie, but you are my cross eyed lamer.
|
| > | I do make 6 figures, sunshine.
| >
| > Prove it lamer. You act like a janitor around here. I bet you don't even
| > fly.
|
| The average FAA employee makes 6 figures, Okie, and I'm well above
average.
|
| Now how about you, Maxie? The average Okie makes around $30K and you're
| obviously well below average. How's the soup lines?
|


Keep lying lamer, it's all ya got.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
|
| The average FAA employee makes 6 figures, Okie, and I'm well above
average.
|
| Now how about you, Maxie? The average Okie makes around $30K and you're
| obviously well below average. How's the soup lines?
|

I'm sure the way you lie, embellish, and whine, you are anything but above
average.

You're just a whiney CAPer, and a government mule to boot. You obviously too
stupid to be much of a pilot, if any.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| :
|
| > "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
| > .. .
| >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
| >> ...
| >>> anyone using the generic "nospam@ microsoft.com" in the email field
| >> ...
| >>
| >> That's not the proper "generic" way to do what you want. RFC 2606
| >> outlines best practices - and has for the last 9 years. If you want
| >> to use an invalid address, use something like .
| >> The address you are using would, if it does anything, cause some
| >> extra spam to flow toward Microsoft's e-mail servers.
| >
| > Well, also sometimes I don't hold my pinky out when I'm drinking tea.
| >
| >
|
| Savage
|
| Bertie

You two need to get a room. But I bet you already have one. Is Mikey Mouth
the wife you often fantasize about Bertrice?

[Mike]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
> |
> | The average FAA employee makes 6 figures, Okie, and I'm well above
> average.
> |
> | Now how about you, Maxie? The average Okie makes around $30K and you're
> | obviously well below average. How's the soup lines?
> |
>
> I'm sure the way you lie, embellish, and whine, you are anything but above
> average.
>
> You're just a whiney CAPer, and a government mule to boot. You obviously
> too
> stupid to be much of a pilot, if any.

....sez the perennial whining Okie MSFS "pilot".

[Mike]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
...
>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
> | "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
> | :
> |
> | > "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
> | > .. .
> | >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> | >> ...
> | >>> anyone using the generic "nospam@ microsoft.com" in the email field
> | >> ...
> | >>
> | >> That's not the proper "generic" way to do what you want. RFC 2606
> | >> outlines best practices - and has for the last 9 years. If you want
> | >> to use an invalid address, use something like .
> | >> The address you are using would, if it does anything, cause some
> | >> extra spam to flow toward Microsoft's e-mail servers.
> | >
> | > Well, also sometimes I don't hold my pinky out when I'm drinking tea.
> | >
> | >
> |
> | Savage
> |
> | Bertie
>
> You two need to get a room. But I bet you already have one. Is Mikey Mouth
> the wife you often fantasize about Bertrice?

No need for you to fantasize, Okie. All your cows are stump broke.

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
| ...
| >
| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > ...
| > |
| > | The average FAA employee makes 6 figures, Okie, and I'm well above
| > average.
| > |
| > | Now how about you, Maxie? The average Okie makes around $30K and
you're
| > | obviously well below average. How's the soup lines?
| > |
| >
| > I'm sure the way you lie, embellish, and whine, you are anything but
above
| > average.
| >
| > You're just a whiney CAPer, and a government mule to boot. You obviously
| > too
| > stupid to be much of a pilot, if any.
|
| ...sez the perennial whining Okie MSFS "pilot".
|
|

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
| "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
| .. .
| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
| > ...
| >> anyone using the generic "nospam@ microsoft.com" in the email field
| > ...
| >
| > That's not the proper "generic" way to do what you want. RFC 2606
outlines
| > best practices - and has for the last 9 years. If you want to use an
| > invalid address, use something like . The address
you
| > are using would, if it does anything, cause some extra spam to flow
toward
| > Microsoft's e-mail servers.
|
| Well, also sometimes I don't hold my pinky out when I'm drinking tea.
|

[Mick[_2_]]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
| ...
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
| > | :
| > |
| > | > "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
| > | > .. .
| > | >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
| > | >> ...
| > | >>> anyone using the generic "nospam@ microsoft.com" in the email
field
| > | >> ...
| > | >>
| > | >> That's not the proper "generic" way to do what you want. RFC 2606
| > | >> outlines best practices - and has for the last 9 years. If you want
| > | >> to use an invalid address, use something like .
| > | >> The address you are using would, if it does anything, cause some
| > | >> extra spam to flow toward Microsoft's e-mail servers.
| > | >
| > | > Well, also sometimes I don't hold my pinky out when I'm drinking
tea.
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > | Savage
| > |
| > | Bertie
| >
| > You two need to get a room. But I bet you already have one. Is Mikey
Mouth
| > the wife you often fantasize about Bertrice?
|
| No need for you to fantasize, Okie. All your cows are stump broke.
|

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:4BWBk.40947$PK.16440
@newsfe04.iad:
>|
>| >
>| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>| > .. .
>| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:ouEBk.11765$Il.9845
@newsfe09.iad:
>| >|
>| >| >
>| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>| >| > ...
>| >| >| "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
>| >| >| :
>| >| >|
>| >| >| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>| >| >| > ...
>| >| >| >> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
>| >| >| >> :
>| >| >| >>
>| >| >| >>> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems
to
>| be
>| >| >| >>> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
>| >| >| >>> uniform, two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set
of
>| >| >| >>> BDU's at a local disaster drill.
>| >| >| >>>
>| >| >| >>> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us
(he
>| >| >| >>> had a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say
>| how
>| >| >| >>> are you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would
>| have
>| >| >| >>> been welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up
with
>| some
>| >| >| >>> ways we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our
>| >| >| >>> disaster preparedness.
>| >| >| >>>
>| >| >| >>
>| >| >| >>
>| >| >| >> They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
>| >| >| >> personell are as
>| >| >| >> crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not
>| qualified
>| >| >| >> to be a security gaurd in a mall.
>| >| >| >
>| >| >| > This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a
mixed
>| bag.
>| >| >| > Many members were in the real air force and many have retired
>| from
>| >| >| > the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels
in
>| >| >| > the real USAF. There's also a lot of members who just like
to
>| fly
>| >| >| > and have fun and could care less about the pretend military
gig.
>| >| >| > The pretend air force aspect of CAP is mostly for the cadets.
>| >| >| > Paying $70 per year in dues does not make one an officer,
>| although
>| >| >| > there are many who seem to think it does. For senior
members,
>| >| >| > there's also the option of wearing CAP distinctive uniforms
>| which
>| >| >| > display no rank insignia. That's the option preferred by
those
>| who
>| >| >| > don't really want to pretend they are in the military.
>| >| >| >
>| >| >| >
>| >| >|
>| >| >| Yeah, true enough, there are a lot of good guys in the CAP,
They
>| are
>| >| >| in a minority, though. I can't see how they can stand it.
>| >| >|
>| >| >|
>| >| >| Bertie
>| >| >
>| >| > That's because you have never finished anything. If they won't
let
>| you
>| >| > run it, you pout and go home.
>| >| >
>| >|
>| >|
>| >| Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahhw!
>| >|
>| >| Back to the battleship flame technique, eh lamer?
>| >|
>| >|
>| >| Bertie
>| >
>| >
>| >
>|
>|
>|
>|
>| Miss!
>|
>|
>| Bertie
>
>
>

Missed again!


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
>|
>| And yet I still have you pegged, Okie.
>|
>|
>
> You couldn't peg your own rectum. I'm not an Okie, Slick.
>
>

Yeh, sure you ani't Okie boi.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:4BWBk.40946$PK.17089
@newsfe04.iad:
>|
>| >
>| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>| > .. .
>| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:mtEBk.11763$Il.7135
@newsfe09.iad:
>| >|
>| >| >
>| >| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
>| >| > ...
>| >| >| "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>| >| >| ...
>| >| >| > "Viperdoc" > wrote in
>| >| >| > :
>| >| >| >
>| >| >| >> The response of a lot of CAP members in this regard seems to
be
>| >| >| >> variable. Just two days ago, there were three officers in
>| uniform,
>| >| >| >> two Air Force and one Army, and a guy in a CAP set of BDU's
at
>| a
>| >| >| >> local disaster drill.
>| >| >| >>
>| >| >| >> Standard protocol would have been for him to come up to us
(he
>| had
>| >| >| >> a first lieutenant bar on his uniform), salute, and say how
are
>| >| >| >> you, good day, or something similar. He certainly would have
>| been
>| >| >| >> welcome to stand with us, share ideas, and come up with some
>| ways
>| >| >| >> we could work with CAP and the military to enhance our
disaster
>| >| >| >> preparedness.
>| >| >| >>
>| >| >| >
>| >| >| >
>| >| >| > They're supposed to, but in fact a large percentage of CAP
>| >| >| > personell are as
>| >| >| > crazy as bedbugs and are only there because they're not
>| qualified
>| >| >| > to be
>| >| > a
>| >| >| > security gaurd in a mall.
>| >| >|
>| >| >| This is true to a large degree. However, there's also a mixed
>| bag.
>| >| >| Many members were in the real air force and many have retired
from
>| >| >| the same. I know several CAP colonels who were real colonels
in
>| the
>| >| >| real USAF.
>| >| > There's
>| >| >| also a lot of members who just like to fly and have fun and
could
>| >| >| care
>| >| > less
>| >| >| about the pretend military gig. The pretend air force aspect
of
>| CAP
>| >| >| is mostly for the cadets. Paying $70 per year in dues does not
>| make
>| >| >| one an officer, although there are many who seem to think it
does.
>| >| >| For senior members, there's also the option of wearing CAP
>| >| >| distinctive uniforms which display no rank insignia. That's
the
>| >| >| option preferred by those who don't really want to pretend they
>| are
>| >| >| in the military.
>| >| >|
>| >| >
>| >| > Gee Mikey Mouth. I didn't know you were a CAP wanna be.
>| >|
>| >|
>| >|
>| >| Would you please make this a little more difficult for me?
>| >|
>| >|
>| >|
>| >| Bertie
>| >| >
>| >| >
>| >| >
>| >|
>| >
>| > Nothing is too difficult for a wanna boi.
>| >
>|
>| I disagree, you can't even poast properly.
>|
>|
>| Bertie
>
>
>

See?

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
>|
>| >
>| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>| > .. .
>| >| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:azEBk.11769$Il.3122
@newsfe09.iad:
>| >|
>| >| >
>| >| > "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
>| >| > ...
>| >| >|
>| >| >| On the other side of that coin there are those who expect to
join
>| CAP
>| >| >| and think they have a "right" to start flying missions the next
>| day
>| >| >| because
>| >| > they
>| >| >| have X number of ratings or whatever, or they are simply a low
>| time
>| >| >| pilot who wants to fly CAP planes on the cheap, yet contribute
>| >| >| nothing to the organization. Or they simply join up one day
and
>| >| >| expect the organization
>| >| > to
>| >| >| bend around them rather than wanting to be part of a team.
Many
>| of
>| >| >| them wind up like you and quit. Good ridance, I say. CAP has
>| over
>| >| >| 500
>| >| > aircraft
>| >| >| in their fleet, so it should come as no surprise that they are
>| going
>| >| >| to auger one in now and then. The nature of the business
involves
>| >| >| some level of risk. Of the crashes you mentioned, all involved
>| very
>| >| >| experienced and competent pilots. Perhaps they did do
something
>| >| >| stupid, but if you think you are smarter than they were, or a
>| better
>| >| >| pilot, you have the type of attitude that often leads to a
smoking
>| >| >| crater at the end of your flying career.
>| >| >|
>| >| >|
>| >| >
>| >| > Are you in uniform? Did you salute Viperquack's first post?
>| >| >
>| >| >
>| >| Pretty funny coming from someone who salutes janitors.
>| >|
>| >|
>| >|
>| >| Bertie
>| >| >
>| >|
>| >
>| > Interesting how easy you can lie.
>| >
>| >
>| >
>|
>| Really?
>|
>|
>| What lie, fanboi?
>|
>|
>| Bertie
>
>
>



Yeh


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
>|
>| You've had your ticket for all of 18 months and you have no
>| additional ratings, yet you think you're more "competent and
>| experienced" than the 2 other pilots you cast disparity on, both of
>| which were at least commercial and instrument rated. What a riot.
>|
>| Yes, I'm sure CAP sorely missed losing "competent and experienced"
>| pilots like you, sunshine. I'm sure your 50 hours or so was
>| experience CAP can never replace.
>|
>
> Been smoking weed already, and it's just 7 am.


No, it isn't, lamerboi







Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
>|
>| Not all of the things you mentioned changes the DOI, and the person
>| in question has no ratings beyond PP-SEL. So it seems a bit strange
>| that
> this
>| person has "30 years" of experience as he claims, and nothing farther
>| than PP-SEL. Certainly lots of things are possible, but one thing is
>| for sure, he has not demonstrated any competencies beyond PP-SEL, and
>| the two
> deceased
>| pilots he chooses to belittle have demonstrated far more competency
>| than
> he
>| has.
>|
>
> What a dumb ass. You really are clueless.
>
>
>

Oh another zinger.


You really know ho to sock it to em, eh?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
>|
>| I'm only pointing out that in all likelihood, both pilots were far
>| more competent and experienced than you will probably ever become in
>| the rest
> of
>| your pathetic life.
>
> No your not, you're just spouting out like a little kid. You know
> nothing about Ben, what's all this probably ****?
>
>
>| I'm sure the looking through your own distorted version of reality,
>| few measure up to the vast experience and competency you've
>| demonstrated, eh?
>
> Your the cross eyed lamer in rose colored glassed here, boi.
>
>
>|
>| I do make 6 figures, sunshine.
>
> Prove it lamer. You act like a janitor around here. I bet you don't
> even fly.


Wow.



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
>| "romeomike" > wrote in message
>| ...
>| > Mike wrote:
>| >
>| >>
>| >> James Henderson gave his life trying to save the life of a kid who
>| >> was lost in the mountains.
>| >
>| > I have no disrespect for the man or the CAP, but I'm curious as to
>| > what, in your opinion, was the cause of those poor souls losing
>| > their lives?
>|
>| I don't care to speculate because too many variables exist to make
>| any
> sort
>| of meaningful determination.
>
> Whaaaaaaaaaa! Speculate is all you do in any thread, Mikey Mouth.
>


And all you do is whine.



Bertie
>
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
>|
>| No doubt. That's because you choose to spam most of your replies
>| with the web site of your half-fast business, Benny, so it wouldn't
>| make much sense for you to do anything differently now would it?
>|
>
> That's what this is really all about, isn't it. Your just jealous of
> Ben accomplishments. Just like Bertie is of Jay.
>
>


Bwsawahwhahwhhahwahwhah!


Yeah, it's been a boyhood dream of mine to open a roach motel and buy an
urpcup.


Bertie
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>| "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in
>| :
>|
>| > "Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
>| > .. .
>| >> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
>| >> ...
>| >>> anyone using the generic "nospam@ microsoft.com" in the email
>| >>> field
>| >> ...
>| >>
>| >> That's not the proper "generic" way to do what you want. RFC 2606
>| >> outlines best practices - and has for the last 9 years. If you
>| >> want to use an invalid address, use something like
>| >> . The address you are using would, if it does
>| >> anything, cause some extra spam to flow toward Microsoft's e-mail
>| >> servers.
>| >
>| > Well, also sometimes I don't hold my pinky out when I'm drinking
>| > tea.
>| >
>| >
>|
>| Savage
>|
>| Bertie
>
> You two need to get a room. But I bet you already have one. Is Mikey
> Mouth the wife you often fantasize about Bertrice?
>



Dunno. She's not often on the computer and I suspect she'd pick a
different handle....



Bertie