Suppose I wanted to fly to Angola... [Archive]

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es330td

September 22nd 08, 09:32 PM

I was talking recently with someone who said that their company needs
to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta and
complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. This
made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private jet.
I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the range."
He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa solo
but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally flown
to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here as
someone might actually know.

I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-speed-
time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with stopping
to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft, certainly
not enough to plan a trip.

I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.

TIA

es330td

September 22nd 08, 09:35 PM

I forgot to include the destination. Let's assume the airport is LAD,
the capital.

Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]

September 22nd 08, 09:53 PM

es330td > wrote in news:bf911c1f-f7ad-4132-a9e9-
:

> I was talking recently with someone who said that their company needs
> to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta and
> complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. This
> made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private jet.
> I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
> and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the range."
> He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa solo
> but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally flown
> to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here as
> someone might actually know.
>
> I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-speed-
> time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
> have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with stopping
> to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft, certainly
> not enough to plan a trip.
>
> I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
> curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
>

not sure what you're asking here.

What kind of bizjet can do it?
Most could do it with a stop or tow and some could do it direct...

Bertie

es330td

September 22nd 08, 10:51 PM

On Sep 22, 4:53*pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> es330td > wrote in news:bf911c1f-f7ad-4132-a9e9-
> :
>
>
>
>
>
> > I was talking recently with someone who said that their company needs
> > to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta and
> > complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. *This
> > made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private jet.
> > I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
> > and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the range."
> > He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa solo
> > but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally flown
> > to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here as
> > someone might actually know.
>
> > I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-speed-
> > time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
> > have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with stopping
> > to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft, certainly
> > not enough to plan a trip.
>
> > I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
> > curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
>
> not sure what you're asking here.
>
> What kind of bizjet can do it?
> Most could do it with a stop or tow and some could do it direct...
>
> Bertie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm trying to understand what reasonable options might be available.
For example, a Citation I might be more fuel efficient than a Citation
III but the III with the longer range can take routes that the I
cannot because of the need to cross the Atlantic. Obviously if price
was no object then a plane with 6,000 miles of range like a G-550
would be great but that is a very expensive plane as opposed to the
Citation III that is only expensive in comparison.

I guess I could back out a little and ask the question "What routes
could one take to fly to Angola from Atlanta, GA?" and then determine
on my own what planes could cover the longest single leg on that route.

Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]

September 22nd 08, 10:59 PM

es330td > wrote in news:264071cb-c9ee-4b12-b6bd-
:

> On Sep 22, 4:53*pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> es330td > wrote in news:bf911c1f-f7ad-4132-a9e9-
>> :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > I was talking recently with someone who said that their company
needs
>> > to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta
and
>> > complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. *This
>> > made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private
jet.
>> > I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
>> > and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the
range."
>> > He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa
solo
>> > but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally
flown
>> > to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here
as
>> > someone might actually know.
>>
>> > I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-
speed-
>> > time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
>> > have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with
stopping
>> > to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft,
certainly
>> > not enough to plan a trip.
>>
>> > I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
>> > curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
>>
>> not sure what you're asking here.
>>
>> What kind of bizjet can do it?
>> Most could do it with a stop or tow and some could do it direct...
>>
>> Bertie- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I'm trying to understand what reasonable options might be available.
> For example, a Citation I might be more fuel efficient than a Citation
> III but the III with the longer range can take routes that the I
> cannot because of the need to cross the Atlantic. Obviously if price
> was no object then a plane with 6,000 miles of range like a G-550
> would be great but that is a very expensive plane as opposed to the
> Citation III that is only expensive in comparison.
>
> I guess I could back out a little and ask the question "What routes
> could one take to fly to Angola from Atlanta, GA?" and then determine
> on my own what planes could cover the longest single leg on that
route.
>

You could do it a number of ways, but it shouldn't be all hat hard to
get there. There's a number of airline routes through new york and
london in particular. Flying a bizjet there is fraught with difficulties
and is not for the faint of heart or people inexperienced with flying in
that part of the world. Flying a Short range jet like a Citation 1 or
Corvette or similar would probably be more expensive than going in
something that could do it in two hops..

Bertie

C J Campbell[_1_]

September 23rd 08, 12:02 AM

On 2008-09-22 13:32:02 -0700, es330td > said:

> I was talking recently with someone who said that their company needs
> to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta and
> complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. This
> made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private jet.
> I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
> and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the range."
> He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa solo
> but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally flown
> to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here as
> someone might actually know.
>
> I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-speed-
> time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
> have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with stopping
> to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft, certainly
> not enough to plan a trip.
>
> I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
> curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
>
> TIA

I asked Jane. She used to plan trips like this for Kaiser Air. It can
be done, but it is going to take a few stops. However, flying into
Angola itself is tricky. You will need permission not only to enter
Angola, but also to overfly several somewhat hostile African nations.
You will also need to arrange passports, visas, and security for plane,
crew and passengers. Planning the return trip can be just as difficult.
Not least is getting back into the USA. It could take months to plan a
trip like this. There are flight service companies that specialize in
handling the details of such flights. If it is your first trip,
especially, you are best off relying on those who really know the
business.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[email protected]

September 23rd 08, 04:27 AM

On Sep 22, 5:02*pm, C J Campbell >
wrote:
> On 2008-09-22 13:32:02 -0700, es330td > said:
>
>
>
> > I was talking recently with someone who said that their company needs
> > to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta and
> > complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. *This
> > made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private jet.
> > I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
> > and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the range."
> > He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa solo
> > but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally flown
> > to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here as
> > someone might actually know.
>
> > I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-speed-
> > time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
> > have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with stopping
> > to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft, certainly
> > not enough to plan a trip.
>
> > I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
> > curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
>
> > TIA
>
> I asked Jane. She used to plan trips like this for Kaiser Air. It can
> be done, but it is going to take a few stops. However, flying into
> Angola itself is tricky. You will need permission not only to enter
> Angola, but also to overfly several somewhat hostile African nations.
> You will also need to arrange passports, visas, and security for plane,
> crew and passengers. Planning the return trip can be just as difficult.
> Not least is getting back into the USA. It could take months to plan a
> trip like this. There are flight service companies that specialize in
> handling the details of such flights. If it is your first trip,
> especially, you are best off relying on those who really know the
> business.
>
> --
> Waddling Eagle
> World Famous Flight Instructor

Normal route is either Atlanta-Johannesburg-Windhoek
(Namibia) or to London-JoBurg-Windhoek and then to Luanda. Our guys
usually get to Windhoek and the (privately-registered) company
aircraft picks them up and takes them into interior Angola. I'm not
sure if there's a reliable commercial carrier between Windhoek and
Luanda. Bus service at least, I'd think.
We flew the Calgary-London-JoBurg route last fall when
travelling to SA and Botswana. British Airways and South African
Express, both good outfits with good airplanes. SAX might have a
flight to Luanda. Check their website.

Dan

Rudy

September 23rd 08, 07:02 AM

>> I was talking recently with someone who said that their company needs
>> to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta and
>> complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially.

Maybe its THIS Angola..its not too far away

Angola (also known as "The Farm") is the Louisiana State Penitentiary and is
estimated to be one of the largest prisons in the U.S. with 5,000 inmates
and 1,800 staff members. It is located on an 18,000 acre (73 km²) plantation
that was once Angola owned by Isaac Franklin in unincorporated West
Feliciana Parish close to the Mississippi border. Angola is surrounded on
three sides by the Mississippi River.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_State_Penitentiary

Jason \Warning Track\ Kendrick

September 23rd 08, 05:21 PM

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:02:13 -0700, C J Campbell wrote:

> I asked Jane.

With or without Tarzan's approval?
--
That white softball comes at me. I am not afreed. I kill it.
Over the fence I do this a lot. NO softball timidates me
if after me. I kill it.
http://www.usssa.com/sports/FindPlayerHistory.asp?PlaID=425527

C J Campbell[_1_]

September 23rd 08, 06:09 PM

On 2008-09-23 09:21:12 -0700, "Jason \"Warning Track\" Kendrick"
> said:

> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:02:13 -0700, C J Campbell wrote:
>
>> I asked Jane.
>
> With or without Tarzan's approval?

Me Tarzan.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[email protected]

September 23rd 08, 07:01 PM

On Sep 22, 9:27*pm, wrote:
> On Sep 22, 5:02*pm, C J Campbell >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 2008-09-22 13:32:02 -0700, es330td > said:
>
> > > I was talking recently with someone who said that their company needs
> > > to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta and
> > > complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. *This
> > > made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private jet.
> > > I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
> > > and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the range."
> > > He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa solo
> > > but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally flown
> > > to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here as
> > > someone might actually know.
>
> > > I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-speed-
> > > time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
> > > have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with stopping
> > > to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft, certainly
> > > not enough to plan a trip.
>
> > > I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
> > > curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
>
> > > TIA
>
> > I asked Jane. She used to plan trips like this for Kaiser Air. It can
> > be done, but it is going to take a few stops. However, flying into
> > Angola itself is tricky. You will need permission not only to enter
> > Angola, but also to overfly several somewhat hostile African nations.
> > You will also need to arrange passports, visas, and security for plane,
> > crew and passengers. Planning the return trip can be just as difficult.
> > Not least is getting back into the USA. It could take months to plan a
> > trip like this. There are flight service companies that specialize in
> > handling the details of such flights. If it is your first trip,
> > especially, you are best off relying on those who really know the
> > business.
>
> > --
> > Waddling Eagle
> > World Famous Flight Instructor
>
> * * * * *Normal route is either Atlanta-Johannesburg-Windhoek
> (Namibia) or to London-JoBurg-Windhoek and then to Luanda. Our guys
> usually get to Windhoek and the (privately-registered) company
> aircraft picks them up and takes them into interior Angola. I'm not
> sure if there's a reliable commercial carrier between Windhoek and
> Luanda. Bus service at least, I'd think.
> * * * * We flew the Calgary-London-JoBurg route last fall when
> travelling to SA and Botswana. British Airways and South African
> Express, both good outfits with good airplanes. SAX might have a
> flight to Luanda. Check their website.
>
> * * * * *Dan

South African Airways lists flights to Luanda as "Codeshare
flights between airlines." Whatever that means. See:
http://ww1.flysaa.com/fares/nav/en/en_frameset.html?contents=/fares/faresTDPDspSearch.jsp?NewSession=true&locale=en_ao&loadFrame=false

Dan

es330td

September 23rd 08, 11:01 PM

On Sep 22, 7:02*pm, C J Campbell >
wrote:
> On 2008-09-22 13:32:02 -0700, es330td > said:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I was talking recently with someone who said that their company needs
> > to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta and
> > complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. *This
> > made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private jet.
> > I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
> > and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the range."
> > He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa solo
> > but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally flown
> > to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here as
> > someone might actually know.
>
> > I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-speed-
> > time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
> > have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with stopping
> > to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft, certainly
> > not enough to plan a trip.
>
> > I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
> > curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
>
> > TIA
>
> I asked Jane. She used to plan trips like this for Kaiser Air. It can
> be done, but it is going to take a few stops. However, flying into
> Angola itself is tricky. You will need permission not only to enter
> Angola, but also to overfly several somewhat hostile African nations.
> You will also need to arrange passports, visas, and security for plane,
> crew and passengers. Planning the return trip can be just as difficult.
> Not least is getting back into the USA. It could take months to plan a
> trip like this. There are flight service companies that specialize in
> handling the details of such flights. If it is your first trip,
> especially, you are best off relying on those who really know the
> business.
>
> --
> Waddling Eagle
> World Famous Flight Instructor- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Remind me to never want to fly to Africa ;-)

I figured doing this would be complex; clearly the way to go is pay a
company to handle this for you.

Mick[_2_]

September 25th 08, 04:16 PM

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| es330td > wrote in news:bf911c1f-f7ad-4132-a9e9-
| :
|
| > I was talking recently with someone who said that their company needs
| > to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta and
| > complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. This
| > made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private jet.
| > I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
| > and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the range."
| > He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa solo
| > but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally flown
| > to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here as
| > someone might actually know.
| >
| > I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-speed-
| > time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
| > have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with stopping
| > to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft, certainly
| > not enough to plan a trip.
| >
| > I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
| > curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
| >
|
| not sure what you're asking here.
|
| What kind of bizjet can do it?
| Most could do it with a stop or tow and some could do it direct...
|
|
|
| Bertie

You're not sure of a lot of things.

Mick[_2_]

September 25th 08, 04:16 PM

Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]

September 26th 08, 03:27 AM

"Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>| es330td > wrote in news:bf911c1f-f7ad-4132-a9e9-
>| :
>|
>| > I was talking recently with someone who said that their company
needs
>| > to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta
and
>| > complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. This
>| > made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private
jet.
>| > I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
>| > and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the
range."
>| > He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa
solo
>| > but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally
flown
>| > to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here
as
>| > someone might actually know.
>| >
>| > I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-
speed-
>| > time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
>| > have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with
stopping
>| > to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft,
certainly
>| > not enough to plan a trip.
>| >
>| > I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
>| > curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
>| >
>|
>| not sure what you're asking here.
>|
>| What kind of bizjet can do it?
>| Most could do it with a stop or tow and some could do it direct...
>|
>|
>|
>| Bertie
>
> You're not sure of a lot of things.
>
>
>

That's right.

What I am sure of I am very sure of.

You being a fjukktard, for instance.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]

September 26th 08, 03:28 AM

Mick[_2_]

September 26th 08, 05:32 AM

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >| es330td > wrote in news:264071cb-c9ee-4b12-b6bd-
| >| :
| >|
| >| > On Sep 22, 4:53 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
| >| >> es330td > wrote in news:bf911c1f-f7ad-4132-a9e9-
| >| >> :
| >| >>
| >| >>
| >| >>
| >| >>
| >| >>
| >| >> > I was talking recently with someone who said that their company
| >| needs
| >| >> > to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from
| Atlanta
| >| and
| >| >> > complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially.
| This
| >| >> > made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private
| >| jet.
| >| >> > I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation
| I)
| >| >> > and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the
| >| range."
| >| >> > He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa
| >| solo
| >| >> > but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally
| >| flown
| >| >> > to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask
| here
| >| as
| >| >> > someone might actually know.
| >| >>
| >| >> > I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-
| >| speed-
| >| >> > time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg
| would
| >| >> > have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with
| >| stopping
| >| >> > to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft,
| >| certainly
| >| >> > not enough to plan a trip.
| >| >>
| >| >> > I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
| >| >> > curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
| >| >>
| >| >> not sure what you're asking here.
| >| >>
| >| >> What kind of bizjet can do it?
| >| >> Most could do it with a stop or tow and some could do it direct...
| >| >>
| >| >> Bertie- Hide quoted text -
| >| >>
| >| >> - Show quoted text -
| >| >
| >| > I'm trying to understand what reasonable options might be
| available.
| >| > For example, a Citation I might be more fuel efficient than a
| Citation
| >| > III but the III with the longer range can take routes that the I
| >| > cannot because of the need to cross the Atlantic. Obviously if
| price
| >| > was no object then a plane with 6,000 miles of range like a G-550
| >| > would be great but that is a very expensive plane as opposed to the
| >| > Citation III that is only expensive in comparison.
| >| >
| >| > I guess I could back out a little and ask the question "What routes
| >| > could one take to fly to Angola from Atlanta, GA?" and then
| determine
| >| > on my own what planes could cover the longest single leg on that
| >| route.
| >| >
| >|
| >| You could do it a number of ways, but it shouldn't be all hat hard to
| >| get there. There's a number of airline routes through new york and
| >| london in particular. Flying a bizjet there is fraught with
| difficulties
| >| and is not for the faint of heart or people inexperienced with flying
| in
| >| that part of the world. Flying a Short range jet like a Citation 1 or
| >| Corvette or similar would probably be more expensive than going in
| >| something that could do it in two hops..
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >|
| >
| > It could also call someone, unlike you, that really knows.
| >
| >
| >
|
|
| Uh yeh.
|
| Flown to africa?
|
| No?
|
|
| I have..
|
|
| Bertie

Mick[_2_]

September 26th 08, 05:32 AM

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
| "Mick" <#$$#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
|
| >
| > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
| > ...
| >| es330td > wrote in news:bf911c1f-f7ad-4132-a9e9-
| >| :
| >|
| >| > I was talking recently with someone who said that their company
| needs
| >| > to send a few (5-6) people to do some work in Angola from Atlanta
| and
| >| > complained about the difficulty of flying there commercially. This
| >| > made me curious about what it would take to do this in a private
| jet.
| >| > I asked my CFII this question (he is type rated for the Citation I)
| >| > and his answer was "Not in this Citation; it doesn't have the
| range."
| >| > He did say that a friend delivered a Citation I to South Africa
| solo
| >| > but it took him three days to get there. He's never personally
| flown
| >| > to Africa so while he said he'd look into it I thought I'd ask here
| as
| >| > someone might actually know.
| >| >
| >| > I am going to assume that there is some sweet spot on the range-
| speed-
| >| > time-cost considerations based upon whatever the longest leg would
| >| > have to be for various routes and the cost/time involved with
| stopping
| >| > to refuel but I don't know much about this kind of aircraft,
| certainly
| >| > not enough to plan a trip.
| >| >
| >| > I've never thought much about international flight so I am very
| >| > curious to see the suggestions for a flight like this.
| >| >
| >|
| >| not sure what you're asking here.
| >|
| >| What kind of bizjet can do it?
| >| Most could do it with a stop or tow and some could do it direct...
| >|
| >|
| >|
| >| Bertie
| >
| > You're not sure of a lot of things.
| >
| >
| >
|
|
| That's right.
|
| What I am sure of I am very sure of.
|
| You being a fjukktard, for instance.
|
|
| Bertie