Shorter Competitions

[noel.wade]

All -

Having never participated in a sailplane competition (yet), I have a
question about competiton length...

Are all "serious" events in the US (even Regionals) 7+ days long?

For major events where people are travelling long distances, I totally
understand the need for a wide window of competition days (i.e.
weather). But the very fact that events require a bunch of dedicated
time imposes a limit on who can go to them and how many can be
attended by any given pilot, and adds to the logistical complexity of
organizing and running the event...

Has there ever been any concerted effort to have more short events on
a local level?

For example: I live in Seattle and could attend several 3-day events
in the California-Oregon-Washington-Idaho area. I figure 1 day to
travel, 1 day of practice, 2 or 3 days of competition, and 1 day to
travel home. Do that over a weekend and you're only taking off 3 - 4
days from work. I could attend 2 or 3 of those events and use up the
same amount of vacation time as one 7-day event.

I've got a lot more to say about this topic (including points and
counter-points as to why this can and can't work)... but being
inexperienced I'd love to throw it open to comment by folks that HAVE
competition experience first.

Anyone with actual competition experience care to comment on this?

Thanks!

--Noel

[[email protected]]

Noel,
Back in the old days when dinosaurs roamed the world, Libelle's were
brand new and almost all of the pilots at a Regional actually olived
in that Region, we would frequently hold consecutive weekend contests
on the West Coast. A five or six day Regional contest could be flown
with taking only one or two days off work. Even less time off work if
you scheduled the contest around Memorial Day or 4th of July. Add a
practice day or two and you still didn't spend all your vacation time
on just one Regional. Now that gas prices are so much higher it makes
a two weekend contest a bit more expensive getting to and from the
venue. That said, it's still an option that might be explored for
those soaring sites wanting to host a truely regional Regional.

Al Thomas
"4"

[Papa3]

On Sep 24, 10:15*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> All -
>
> Having never participated in a sailplane competition (yet), I have a
> question about competiton length...
>
> Are all "serious" events in the US (even Regionals) 7+ days long?
>
> For major events where people are travelling long distances, I totally
> understand the need for a wide window of competition days (i.e.
> weather). *But the very fact that events require a bunch of dedicated
> time imposes a limit on who can go to them and how many can be
> attended by any given pilot, and adds to the logistical complexity of
> organizing and running the event...
>
> Has there ever been any concerted effort to have more short events on
> a local level?
>
> For example: I live in Seattle and could attend several 3-day events
> in the California-Oregon-Washington-Idaho area. *I figure 1 day to
> travel, 1 day of practice, 2 or 3 days of competition, and 1 day to
> travel home. *Do that over a weekend and you're only taking off 3 - 4
> days from work. *I could attend 2 or 3 of those events and use up the
> same amount of vacation time as one 7-day event.
>
> I've got a lot more to say about this topic (including points and
> counter-points as to why this can and can't work)... but being
> inexperienced I'd love to throw it open to comment by folks that HAVE
> competition experience first.
>
> Anyone with actual competition experience care to comment on this?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --Noel

Hi Noel,

There are a lot of "real" contests out there with different formats.
Several leap to mind:

- GTA races. http://home.att.net/~g.t.a.race/gta_main.htm
- Governor's Cup. http://www.pgcsoaring.org/gov_cup/
- Chicago area. http://www.chicagogliderclub.org/content/nisc.php

It really just takes a couple of folks who are fired up about racing
to drive this sort of thing, and it really can be successful. We've
been running the Governor's Cup in NJ/NY/PA for over 10 years now, and
some seasons we've had over 30 pilots participate.

Cheers,

Erik Mann
LS8-18 (P3)

[chris]

One feedback on this idea is imagine you set up a whole competition,
organized all the volunteers, staff and get everyone to show up then
you have bad weather 2 days in a row. That destroys a short event,
but a 6+ day event it still leaves you with 4 days and is still worth
the major effort to organize and attend.

Having said that, who says that the event has to be a single row of
consecutive days? We fly as many weekends as are feasible each season
in the GTA. Each season is an event in this sense.

http://home.att.net/~g.t.a.race/index.htm

It would be nice if we could figure out how to sanction this type of
competition as a regional equivalent.

Chris

[Tuno]

Noel,

All of the four regional contests I've attended had the same schedule
-- practice day on a Sunday followed by six contest days. This allowed
travel days on the sandwiching Saturday and Sunday.

I've always thought it was an ideal schedule. A tremendous amount of
work goes into assembling the staff and towplanes that make it happen,
and doing that for anything less than 5 or 6 contest days just doesn't
make sense.

I'm fortunate to live in Arizona where for years we've had the Arizona
Soaring Association's contest series, which covers a number of
weekends throughout the soaring season, at several locations around
Arizona. The club at El Tiro recently started their own similar
series. If your area doesn't have something similar, I highly
encourage you to talk to other pilots about organizing one. All it
takes is a little leadership and a few pilots who want to do a little
organized contest flying.

I'm happy to share the Excel spreadsheet we use for collating the ASA
series scores with any other club that's interested.

-ted
ASG28½ "2NO"

[[email protected]]

On Sep 25, 12:47�am, Tuno > wrote:
> Noel,
>
> All of the four regional contests I've attended had the same schedule
> -- practice day on a Sunday followed by six contest days. This allowed
> travel days on the sandwiching Saturday and Sunday.
>
> I've always thought it was an ideal schedule. A tremendous amount of
> work goes into assembling the staff and towplanes that make it happen,
> and doing that for anything less than 5 or 6 contest days just doesn't
> make sense.
>
> I'm fortunate to live in Arizona where for years we've had the Arizona
> Soaring Association's contest series, which covers a number of
> weekends throughout the soaring season, at several locations around
> Arizona. The club at El Tiro recently started their own similar
> series. If your area doesn't have something similar, I highly
> encourage you to talk to other pilots about organizing one. All it
> takes is a little leadership and a few pilots who want to do a little
> organized contest flying.
>
> I'm happy to share the Excel spreadsheet we use for collating the ASA
> series scores with any other club that's interested.
>
> -ted
> ASG28� "2NO"

Noel,

Our club CISS ( Central Indiana Soaring Society ) has a contest that
runs all season long . So far this year we have flown 12 contest days
( and I know of 2 more from last week end yet to be scored ) .
Basically any good soaring day at the field allows interested pilots
to compete with each other on a handicap basis . Rules are minimum and
it's extremely popular . I would venture to say that we fly more
contest days at our club than any other in the lower forty eight !
For details check out our website at www.centralindianasoaringsociety.org
Ron (ZA)

[[email protected]]

On Sep 24, 10:15*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> All -
>
> Having never participated in a sailplane competition (yet), I have a
> question about competiton length...
>
> Are all "serious" events in the US (even Regionals) 7+ days long?
>
> For major events where people are travelling long distances, I totally
> understand the need for a wide window of competition days (i.e.
> weather). *But the very fact that events require a bunch of dedicated
> time imposes a limit on who can go to them and how many can be
> attended by any given pilot, and adds to the logistical complexity of
> organizing and running the event...
>
> Has there ever been any concerted effort to have more short events on
> a local level?
>
> For example: I live in Seattle and could attend several 3-day events
> in the California-Oregon-Washington-Idaho area. *I figure 1 day to
> travel, 1 day of practice, 2 or 3 days of competition, and 1 day to
> travel home. *Do that over a weekend and you're only taking off 3 - 4
> days from work. *I could attend 2 or 3 of those events and use up the
> same amount of vacation time as one 7-day event.
>
> I've got a lot more to say about this topic (including points and
> counter-points as to why this can and can't work)... but being
> inexperienced I'd love to throw it open to comment by folks that HAVE
> competition experience first.
>
> Anyone with actual competition experience care to comment on this?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --Noel

The general reason for regionals being 6 or 7 days is to have as many
days available as possible using one week of vacation time. This
maximizes the chances of getting an official contest in(3 days for
fully ranked regional) and gets the most flying for the drive time.
Some organizers do 6 day events to reduce load on the support group.
An alternative that also can be used is to break the contest into 2
segments over (2) 3 day weekends which can be useful if the contest is
close to the pilot population participating.
FWIW
UH

[HoUdino]

You don't have to fly every day of a 7 day contest...especially true
if you have no aspirations to win. This is especially easy if the
contest is undersubscribed.

LT

[Papa3]

Ron's note sparks a thought related to another thread on the decline
or ascent of competition soaring in the US. I can say with great
certainty that, if you measure participation to include SSA Sanctioned
Nationals and Regionals plus formal (though non-sanctioned) Local/
Regional contests, participation in the eastern PA/NJ area is up from
when I first got into the sport 20 years ago. I know that the BGA
Ladder in the UK is hugely successful as well. So, the right
question to ask may be "Is it time to revisit what we mean by
sailplane racing in the context of new tasking options, new
technologies, and new ways of connecting people?"

P3

> Noel,
>
> Our club CISS ( Central Indiana Soaring Society ) has a contest that
> runs all season long . So far this year we have flown 12 contest days
> ( and I know of 2 more from last week end yet to be scored ) .
> Basically any good soaring day at the field allows interested pilots
> to compete with each other on a handicap basis . Rules are minimum and
> it's extremely popular . I would *venture to say that we fly more
> contest days at our club than any other in the lower forty eight !
> For details check out our website at *www.centralindianasoaringsociety.org
> Ron (ZA)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

While informal racing is up, supported by the OLC, what this suggests is
the notion that the nationals are coming to be viewed as a venue for
picking an international team instead of just a national contest.

At 15:36 25 September 2008, Papa3 wrote:
>Ron's note sparks a thought related to another thread on the decline
>or ascent of competition soaring in the US. I can say with great
>certainty that, if you measure participation to include SSA Sanctioned
>Nationals and Regionals plus formal (though non-sanctioned) Local/
>Regional contests, participation in the eastern PA/NJ area is up from
>when I first got into the sport 20 years ago. I know that the BGA
>Ladder in the UK is hugely successful as well. So, the right
>question to ask may be "Is it time to revisit what we mean by
>sailplane racing in the context of new tasking options, new
>technologies, and new ways of connecting people?"
>
>P3
>
>> Noel,
>>
>> Our club CISS ( Central Indiana Soaring Society ) has a contest that
>> runs all season long . So far this year we have flown 12 contest days
>> ( and I know of 2 more from last week end yet to be scored ) .
>> Basically any good soaring day at the field allows interested pilots
>> to compete with each other on a handicap basis . Rules are minimum and
>> it's extremely popular . I would =A0venture to say that we fly more
>> contest days at our club than any other in the lower forty eight !
>> For details check out our website at
>=A0www.centralindianasoaringsociety.=
>org
>> Ron (ZA)- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>

[Brian[_1_]]

> Are all "serious" events in the US (even Regionals) 7+ days long?
>
>
> --Noel

Hi Noel,

I think very few regionals are more than 7 days.
Region 8 is typically Sunday through Saturday over the 4th of July
weekend.

They have tried the split weekend contest before, but I believe they
found the continuous contest had better participation and was easier
to plan for. I know I prefer the continuous contest, but then I have
to drive 300 miles one way to get to it.

2009 Region 8 is scheduled to have the 18 meter nationals. which will
be 10 days Tuesday through the following Thursday over the 4th of July
weekend. I suspect that they will run a shorter Sports Class Regional
contest during the same time.


Brian.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 24, 9:47*pm, Tuno > wrote:
> Noel,
>
> All of the four regional contests I've attended had the same schedule
> -- practice day on a Sunday followed by six contest days. This allowed
> travel days on the sandwiching Saturday and Sunday.
>
> I've always thought it was an ideal schedule. A tremendous amount of
> work goes into assembling the staff and towplanes that make it happen,
> and doing that for anything less than 5 or 6 contest days just doesn't
> make sense.
>
> I'm fortunate to live in Arizona where for years we've had the Arizona
> Soaring Association's contest series, which covers a number of
> weekends throughout the soaring season, at several locations around
> Arizona. The club at El Tiro recently started their own similar
> series. If your area doesn't have something similar, I highly
> encourage you to talk to other pilots about organizing one. All it
> takes is a little leadership and a few pilots who want to do a little
> organized contest flying.
>
> I'm happy to share the Excel spreadsheet we use for collating the ASA
> series scores with any other club that's interested.
>
> -ted
> ASG28½ "2NO"

In my experience contests fall into two broad categories (personally I
quite like them both).

1) Concentrated flying contests. These typically are sanctioned
events. They tend to have broader "cachement areas" and therefore
larger fields of competitors. Because of this the ratio of flying time
to driving time matters as does the need to bridge across patches of
bad weather. UH described the primary logic - maximize the number of
contest days that fit in a week of vacation (typically Su-Sa plus a
practice day).

2) Distributed flying contests. These typically have 10-20 flying days
spread over a season's worth of weekends - though there are other
formats. The idea here is to eliminate the need for vacation days. The
cachement area is more or less the same as for weekend flying since
the ratio of driving to flying can get quite high if you are coming
from any distance. The trick here is that it's pretty hard for
contestants to commit to 5-10 weekends 3-6 months in advance so
generally you only count a competitors best 6 out of 10 days, 12 out
of 20 days, etc. This gives some advantage to the pilots who can
commit to more days but people live with that fact without complaining
(usually). I'm sure there are other formats that address the need to
drop some days. I've flown the ASA series off and on since the
mid-80s and I have to say it is a great way to get new racing pilots
into the game - there is even a "B class" that is explicitly for
newbies. It's also a great way to nurture a racing fraternity within a
broader soaring community.

A variation is the "short format" distributed flying event. The ASA
Southwest Soaring Championship comes to mind. I've seen this most
frequently as two consecutive weekends where one is a three day
weekend. Again the idea is to require zero vacation time so as to
maximize local participation and maybe bring in a pilot or two from
slightly further away. ASA also holds this event as part of the season
long series with separate scoring. This format is a good way to try to
ignite local contest flying that is a step beyond OLC in terms of head-
to-head racing, but is not quite as much work and commitment as the
season-long format.

9B