Participating in Contests

[MickiMinner]

I have been watching the threads about club class and the SRA pilot
opinion polls with great interest. There (statistically) has not been
much of a change in the US with participation in contests in recent
years. For everyone, Europe, USA and elsewhere....what draws, lures
or interests you in a contest? The location that has lots of
amenities? The proximity to your local club? The group events? the
group meals? the ground schools? The mentoring? The camraderie?
The prizes/trophy's? The learning? The sense of accomplishment?

What would it take to draw you into a contest as a first-timer? If
you regularly attend contests, what are the things that you look
forward to the most? Contest organizers all over the world would
really like to hear. Each of us does our own thing in a different
way, but it would be nice to hear some differing opinions to help grow
racing/competition and hopefully the cross-country pilots and the
sport in general. Hopefully you can spend a minute giving us some
data to analyze! Thanks Micki Minner

[Mike the Strike]

I started competing in local contests to improve my cross-country
flying. As one of my colleagues put it, when you fly cross-country,
you are racing against the sun and weather. You'll go furthest and
have more chance of getting home if you fly efficiently. My main goal
was to improve my skills, not necessarily to become competitive.

Flying with other experienced pilots is the best way to do this - you
can see how well you do and pick up tips from others. Contests are
also great occasions to log lots of cross-country time in a short
space of time and there's always folks to retrieve you if, like me,
you don't have a regular crew.

I have now improved from being 15% slower than my colleagues to more
like 5% slower. I probably won't beat many folks, but at least I keep
up most days.

Of course, with OLC, every flight seems like a race these days - just
check the past week's log files!

Mike

[RRK]

For a big number of contest pilots, no matter what glider
they are flying and in what Class, the Contests are about one thing
and only: It’s the only way they can fly Cross Country. With a few
noble exceptions, most of our Clubs do not provide the structure
conductive to daily Cross Country. If you are unable to create such
support by yourself, you simply do not fly serious Cross Country. For
most of us, going to Contests is the only way to secure all
necessary logistics and material support . We are willing and we do
pay for the privilege. Let’s make those Contests as accommodating and
inclusive as possible. Please. Thank you.

[Jeffrey \PT\ Smith]

For me, the desire to fly in contests was part of the desire to fly
with some of the best pilots in my club and the rest of the US. I
wanted to know what they knew and fly as well as they could. One of
the really interesting things about soaring is that it is one of the
only true places in aviation where true competitions exist. Buying a
60+ year old mustang to race at Reno is not a race, it's a museum
piece. Soaring has new developments and the skill of the pilot is
often the deciding factor: just the right mix between brains and
wallet.

After wanting to get into XC flying though, the thing that actually
empowered me to do it was the mentoring. Our club had a good XC ship
(Cirrus) that I used to cut my teeth on and figure out just how much I
didn't know. This lead to me learning from my betters and ultimately
getting a better ship. But even at Parowan, if no one from my club
had come up, I would never have gone by myself. The help from others
at El Tiro that went to Parowan was crucial to me going to my first
contest. The experienced contest fliers helped me know what to
expect, what to bring and how to prepare - everything from setting up
my GPS equipment to showing me how to use my O2 bottle.

[jb92563]

The impression that the super pilots with full time organized ground
crews and $90k+ ships makes going to a contest with a older generation
glider say a HP-11 with ~36:1 glide rather futile and would perhaps
feel like a 2nd class pilot showing up with such a craft amoungst all
the expensive glass.

Having never been to a contest I suppose it may just take one good
experience to make me a regular attendee but I just have not felt the
urge to get all the resources together to make that 1st one. Perhaps
its lazy convenience that keeps me at the local club. Distance is
another factor but would probably drive up to 500 miles to go to a 3
day weekend event.

I think what would make me come to one would be a contest amoungst
more of the older generation gliders and some explanation of how
retrieves would be made if I did not bring my own retrieve crew.
Knowing I would have a retrieve crew available at the contest would
remove 75% of the reluctance and flying with older gliders to keep it
interesting, would remove the last 25% and get me to come out.

I know from my sail boating experiences that going to a contest is the
fasterst way to learn from much more experienced pilots and accelerate
your own progress.

I think another good idea for first timers would be to have an
optional pre-contest orientation weekend where perhaps a month before
the contest you could go to the site with a number of others and fly
the area to get the lay of the land for us first timers. For that
matter they should just have a firstimers class with detailed
explanations of what to expect, what not to do, where not to go and
how to prepare for that particular site. Show us where the house
thermal are.

Another factor for some will also be the availability of a proper
Logger as they seem unnecessarily expensive and are not standard
equipment in older gliders. Perhaps allowing a PDA with GPS, or even a
simple hand held GPS unit to substitude as a turnpoint recorder would
help in this area.

Remove some or all of those barriers and Im sure the contests would
get greater attendance.

[jb92563]

The impression that the super pilots with full time organized ground
crews and $90k+ ships makes going to a contest with a older generation
glider say a HP-11 with ~36:1 glide rather futile and would perhaps
feel like a 2nd class pilot showing up with such a craft amoungst all
the expensive glass.

Having never been to a contest I suppose it may just take one good
experience to make me a regular attendee but I just have not felt the
urge to get all the resources together to make that 1st one. Perhaps
its lazy convenience that keeps me at the local club. Distance is
another factor but would probably drive up to 500 miles to go to a 3
day weekend event.

I think what would make me come to one would be a contest amoungst
more of the older generation gliders and some explanation of how
retrieves would be made if I did not bring my own retrieve crew.
Knowing I would have a retrieve crew available at the contest would
remove 75% of the reluctance and flying with older gliders to keep it
interesting, would remove the last 25% and get me to come out.

I know from my sail boating experiences that going to a contest is the
fasterst way to learn from much more experienced pilots and accelerate
your own progress.

I think another good idea for first timers would be to have an
optional pre-contest orientation weekend where perhaps a month before
the contest you could go to the site with a number of others and fly
the area to get the lay of the land for us first timers. For that
matter they should just have a firstimers class with detailed
explanations of what to expect, what not to do, where not to go and
how to prepare for that particular site. Show us where the house
thermal are.

Another factor for some will also be the availability of a proper
Logger as they seem unnecessarily expensive and are not standard
equipment in older gliders. Perhaps allowing a PDA with GPS, or even a
simple hand held GPS unit to substitude as a turnpoint recorder would
help in this area.

Remove some or all of those barriers and Im sure the contests would
get greater attendance.

[jb92563]

The impression that the super pilots with full time organized ground
crews and $90k+ ships makes going to a contest with a older generation
glider say a HP-11 with ~36:1 glide rather futile and would perhaps
feel like a 2nd class pilot showing up with such a craft amoungst all
the expensive glass.

Having never been to a contest I suppose it may just take one good
experience to make me a regular attendee but I just have not felt the
urge to get all the resources together to make that 1st one. Perhaps
its lazy convenience that keeps me at the local club. Distance is
another factor but would probably drive up to 500 miles to go to a 3
day weekend event.

I think what would make me come to one would be a contest amoungst
more of the older generation gliders and some explanation of how
retrieves would be made if I did not bring my own retrieve crew.
Knowing I would have a retrieve crew available at the contest would
remove 75% of the reluctance and flying with older gliders to keep it
interesting, would remove the last 25% and get me to come out.

I know from my sail boating experiences that going to a contest is the
fasterst way to learn from much more experienced pilots and accelerate
your own progress.

I think another good idea for first timers would be to have an
optional pre-contest orientation weekend where perhaps a month before
the contest you could go to the site with a number of others and fly
the area to get the lay of the land for us first timers. For that
matter they should just have a firstimers class with detailed
explanations of what to expect, what not to do, where not to go and
how to prepare for that particular site. Show us where the house
thermal are.

Another factor for some will also be the availability of a proper
Logger as they seem unnecessarily expensive and are not standard
equipment in older gliders. Perhaps allowing a PDA with GPS, or even a
simple hand held GPS unit to substitude as a turnpoint recorder would
help in this area.

Remove some or all of those barriers and Im sure the contests would
get greater attendance.

[jb92563]

The impression that the super pilots with full time organized ground
crews and $90k+ ships makes going to a contest with a older generation
glider say a HP-11 with ~36:1 glide rather futile and would perhaps
feel like a 2nd class pilot showing up with such a craft amoungst all
the expensive glass.

Having never been to a contest I suppose it may just take one good
experience to make me a regular attendee but I just have not felt the
urge to get all the resources together to make that 1st one. Perhaps
its lazy convenience that keeps me at the local club. Distance is
another factor but would probably drive up to 500 miles to go to a 3
day weekend event.

I think what would make me come to one would be a contest amoungst
more of the older generation gliders and some explanation of how
retrieves would be made if I did not bring my own retrieve crew.
Knowing I would have a retrieve crew available at the contest would
remove 75% of the reluctance and flying with older gliders to keep it
interesting, would remove the last 25% and get me to come out.

I know from my sail boating experiences that going to a contest is the
fasterst way to learn from much more experienced pilots and accelerate
your own progress.

I think another good idea for first timers would be to have an
optional pre-contest orientation weekend where perhaps a month before
the contest you could go to the site with a number of others and fly
the area to get the lay of the land for us first timers. For that
matter they should just have a firstimers class with detailed
explanations of what to expect, what not to do, where not to go and
how to prepare for that particular site. Show us where the house
thermal are.

Another factor for some will also be the availability of a proper
Logger as they seem unnecessarily expensive and are not standard
equipment in older gliders. Perhaps allowing a PDA with GPS, or even a
simple hand held GPS unit to substitude as a turnpoint recorder would
help in this area.

Remove some or all of those barriers and Im sure the contests would
get greater attendance.

[BB]

> The impression that the super pilots with full time organized ground
> crews and $90k+ ships makes going to a contest with a older generation
> glider say a HP-11 with ~36:1 glide rather futile and would perhaps
> feel like a 2nd class pilot showing up with such a craft amoungst all
> the expensive glass.

The impression is completely wrong. Most pilots fly crewless at
regionals. Most pilots are incredibly welcoming of newcomers. And we
love to look over interesting bits of soaring history. When you do
well in an older glider you get lots of attaboys and pats on the
back.

>
> Having never been to a contest I suppose it may just take one good
> experience to make me a regular attendee

You will have a good experience!

> I think what would make me come to one would be a contest amoungst
> more of the older generation gliders and some explanation of how
> retrieves would be made if I did not bring my own retrieve crew.
> Knowing I would have a retrieve crew available at the contest would
> remove 75% of the reluctance and flying with older gliders to keep it
> interesting, would remove the last 25% and get me to come out.

Welcome to sports class. It's full of older generation gliders, and
like I said nobody there cares what you're flying. In fact, you get a
lot of extra respect for flying older gliders.

If having a crew is really important then bring one along. But it's
really not needed. Come with some buddies; or just get together with
the rest of the sports class and agree "I'll get you if you get me."
Air retrieves and a retrieve office make the whole business pretty
painless. The support you get at contests is one of the great
attractions.

>
> I know from my sail boating experiences that going to a contest is the
> fasterst way to learn from much more experienced pilots and accelerate
> your own progress.

Bingo. Nothing will push you to becoming a better pilot faster than
hanging around with this gregarious friendly and welcoming group of
very fast pilots.

>
> I think another good idea for first timers would be to have an
> optional pre-contest orientation weekend where perhaps a month before
> the contest you could go to the site with a number of others and fly
> the area to get the lay of the land for us first timers.

Most sites are regular operations. Go for it. Otherwise it's called
practice day. Or go to one of the US team pre-contest camps or the air
sailing sports event.

For that
> matter they should just have a firstimers class with detailed
> explanations of what to expect, what not to do, where not to go and
> how to prepare for that particular site. Show us where the house
> thermal are.

First timers class is called sports regionals. You get exactly this
star treatment. You will be assigned your personal "mentor" Many
contests have exactly the kind of special morning briefing you're
asking for. The US team regionals also give daily briefings and daily
debriefings.

>
> Another factor for some will also be the availability of a proper
> Logger as they seem unnecessarily expensive and are not standard
> equipment in older gliders. Perhaps allowing a PDA with GPS, or even a
> simple hand held GPS unit to substitude as a turnpoint recorder would
> help in this area.

This is allowed now in sports regionals.


> Remove some or all of those barriers and Im sure the contests would
> get greater attendance.


These barriers are removed. You're out of excuses. Hope to see you
next year!
John Cochrane BB

[kirk.stant]

Like BB said: No excuses.

Do some homework (go to the SSA or any big club website and there will
usually be links to find info about racing rules, procedures, etc.).
SRA is another excellent source.

Read Moffatt. At least twice.

Then show up and give it a try.

Don't obsess about the "racing" aspect - you will find many pilots who
"race in order to fly", instead of "flying in order to race". (That
approach tends to change as you start doing better, by the way!)

Warning - it is addictive!

Kirk
66

[noel.wade]

> > The impression that the super pilots with full time organized ground
> > crews and $90k+ ships makes going to a contest with a older generation
> > glider say a HP-11 with ~36:1 glide rather futile and would perhaps
> > feel like a 2nd class pilot showing up with such a craft amoungst all
> > the expensive glass.

I hear you - until recently I primarily flew a Russia AC-4 and had
those same concerns. But you know what? An AC-4 took third place in
a Regionals last year - in a ship with a 31:1 glide-ratio!

I've seen snobbery among a few high-dollar glider folks, but so far
they've been a tiny minority - and you deal with those folks in all
sports... (don't get me started about my auto-racing experiences along
those lines!)

> > I think another good idea for first timers would be to have an
> > optional pre-contest orientation weekend where perhaps a month before
> > the contest you could go to the site with a number of others and fly
> > the area to get the lay of the land for us first timers.

I believe pretty much every Regional has at least 1 or 2 practice days
prior to the competition. Radio comms are allowed on the practice
days so you should be able to acquire the knowledge you want and learn
from the other pilots at the same time. There will always be some
"home-field advantage", but at least you won't be flying the first
day / task "blind".

> > they should just have a firstimers class with detailed
> > explanations of what to expect, what not to do, where not to go and
> > how to prepare for that particular site. Show us where the house
> > thermal are.

Some clubs do a yearly XC flying seminar and pair new pilots with
experienced pilots (often ones with race experience) - then send them
out on a moderate XC task. Having done one of those, I can say its
invaluable - even if its not strictly at a race. Also, there's
nothing stopping you from asking a local XC pilot to team-fly with you
some day. Sit down at the beginning of the day and pick a challenging-
but-achievable set of waypoints and then go fly!

Last year I flew XC and picked my path / waypoints by looking for good
clouds and scenic terrain. This summer, after doing a little team-
flying with experienced pilots, I developed a different approach. I
would decide on a couple of waypoints (or a specific direction of
flight) in the morning after studying the weather, and then I spent my
flight trying to hit those waypoints - or fly as far as I could in the
direction I picked prior to takeoff. I feel that having a defined
goal really sharpened my skills and will make me pretty comfortable
with an assigned task by the time I get to my first competition.

Also, since you can view charts online and customize Google Maps, you
should be able to talk to local pilots ahead of time and learn some of
the house thermals and "gotcha" areas. For example, here's a Google
Map that our local club near Seattle has marked up (check out all the
marked points and shaded areas you can click on for detailed info):

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=110809831428160373070.00044fe1653a0df76f713&t=p&ll=48.278623,-121.955109&spn=0.530084,0.946198&z=10


> > equipment in older gliders. Perhaps allowing a PDA with GPS, or even a
> > simple hand held GPS unit to substitude as a turnpoint recorder would
> > help in this area.
>
> This is allowed now in sports regionals.

Wow, really? That's awesome! I have a logger but allowing PDA or GPS
sources will probably enable me to convince 2 or maybe 3 extra pilots
to come to the Regionals in Ephrata next year! They wanna try a
competition, but don't wanna spend the $$ on loggers or other fancy
equipment that they don't need for their normal weekend flying. Ahh,
a little bit of knowledge goes a long way!

--Noel

[jcarlyle]

Noel,

Thanks for posting the map, but not for the reasons you think!

My Mom lived in Oak Harbor, and I made the drive up I-5 from Seattle
many times before her death a few years ago. At the time I wasn't a
glider guider, so I just admired the pretty countryside to the east
without really wondering what it was about it that drew me in. Now,
seeing your map in my fourth year of flying, I know why I was
attracted!

Have fun, fly safe!

-John

On Sep 30, 3:39 pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=11080...
>
> --Noel

[jb92563]

> These barriers are removed. You're out of excuses. Hope to see you
> next year!
> John Cochrane BB

Wow, that is really good information and straightened me out on a lot
of things
that I simply did not know.

Looks like I really don't have any excuses and it sounds like fun.

I also just read about the local sport regionals at Warner Springs and
found there were
7 newbies attending that contest and its only 40 miles from home.

I'll make a plan to attend some regionals next year, and brush up on
my skills
in preperation in the mean time.

I have one more question.

Do pilots typically carry oxygen at these events?

I imagine since going fast is the objective most will not thermal up
to cloud base (out west) when they
could be racing along with shorter climbs?


Kirk:
What book by Moffat? Is there just one?

Does the SSA site have the Sport Regional rules on PDA/GPS, or is that
specific to each regional contest?

Ray

[jb92563]

I will soon be able to scout out my contest areas myself as I recently
bought a Grob 109 motor glider.

That will come in real handy for getting the lay of the land and
testing the area for lift in advance of any contest
and it also has the range (500mi) to get me there by air.

Guess you will be seeing me in my HP-11 at a constest next year.

Ray

[PMSC Member]

On Oct 1, 11:29*am, jb92563 > wrote:

> Guess you will be seeing me in my HP-11 at a constest next year.

That's cool... I used to race an HP-18. Had a lot of Sports Class
fun with that.

Sports regional rules permit PDA based loggers. Get with an
experienced competition pilot and get some dual time on tasks, logs,
log analysis. Practice all this way ahead of time. Most common
technical problems during contests are GPS/logger related and they can
really spoil a contest! Make your mistakes at the home field and be
ahead of the game and ready to concentrate on flying at the contest.

Also Moffatt -- _Winning II_ -- get it from Knauff and Grove.
Excellent.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

[Tim Taylor]

On Oct 1, 9:24*am, jb92563 > wrote:



> Do pilots typically carry oxygen at these events?
>
> What book by Moffat? Is there just one?
>
> Does the SSA site have the Sport Regional rules on PDA/GPS, or is that
> specific to each regional contest?
>
> Ray

In the west O2 is used often. Higher usually mean faster, not in all
cases, but most. Many reasons too numerous to list here. Higher
gives a greater range to find stronger thermals and higher is thinner
air so you are flying faster.

Moffat's books either "Winning on the Wind" or Winning II (basically
"Winning on the Wind' with additions). Good books to read. Many
others as well, but you don't need to get to complex to start. There
is the teachable moment and some will come after your first few
contests.

Both the SSA site under racing and the SRA site are helpful.

http://www.sailplane-racing.org/

Best thing is to go out ot your local site and visit with some of the
pilots that race. They can be very helpful on getting you ready for
your fist contest.

Just remember it is addictive. You may have to attend Sailplane
Racing Anonymous. As I tell people I'm addicted to "White Powder and
Speed". That smell of gel coat and epoxy when you open the trailer is
intoxicating.

Good luck

[BB]

> Do pilots typically carry oxygen at these events?

If you're going to fly xc at any site that allows you to get over
10,000', oxygen is a must. Forget about speed, as a beginner you're
going to want to be at the top of the thermals because you don't want
to think about landing out. Planning to bail out of thermals below the
top for 02 reasons sets you up for a needless mountain of stress. The
mountain high system is great, and the small ones are easy to install.
Yeah the FAA says you can go higher, but you want to make good
decisions in stressful situations. I set mine to go on at 5000' after
seeing at Tonopah that my o2 saturation was 95 % and heartbeat 10
beats above normal while sitting on the runway.

John Cochrane BB