Broke Airline Pilot needs "stuff" for an ASW-15B

[[email protected]]

I recently bought a 1972 ASW-15B. I am on a budget to fix this up.
I'm looking for stuff that works, doesn't look flashly, but fits the
need.

I need a:

1. GPS data logger thats contest worthy

2. PDA device and connections

3. Wing Rigger so I can assemble by myself

4.Gear so I can tow it by myself to the runway

Thank You - Scott Alexander

[Mike[_8_]]

On Oct 22, 7:06*pm, wrote:
> I recently bought a 1972 ASW-15B. *I am on a budget to fix this up.
> I'm looking for stuff that works, doesn't look flashly, but fits the
> need.
>
> I need a:
>
> 1. GPS data logger thats contest worthy
>
> 2. PDA device and connections
>
> 3. Wing Rigger so I can assemble by myself
>
> 4.Gear so I can tow it by myself to the runway
>

Go to ebay for the PDA, -the 3900 series works well for about
$100.00. XCsoar flight software is free and works very well...

http://www.xcsoar.org/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page

For an inexpensive wing rigger check out this link..

http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/Construction/Wing_Carrier/LWT-3.htm

Good luck, Scott.

Mike

[[email protected]]

On Oct 22, 9:06*pm, wrote:
> I recently bought a 1972 ASW-15B. *I am on a budget to fix this up.
> I'm looking for stuff that works, doesn't look flashly, but fits the
> need.
>
> I need a:
>
> 1. GPS data logger thats contest worthy
>
> 2. PDA device and connections
>
> 3. Wing Rigger so I can assemble by myself
>
> 4.Gear so I can tow it by myself to the runway
>
> Thank You - Scott Alexander

Note that for Sports Class (USA) regional level contests that a PDA
based logger is acceptable. Feed it with a cheap hand held GPS (used
Garmin 12xl or similar) and you can potentially have GPS Nav/logger
for a couple hundred bucks.

Have fun with your '15!

-T8

[Mike125]

Have a look at Paul Remdes page - http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/
for PDA /GPS set ups. Many options, many pretty cheap and great
support. Wing riggers are not cheap. www.wingrigger.com looks like a
good choice for bang-for-a-buck but will still run around $1000 with
shipping. I think you could fashion your own tow out gear or have
someone do it for pretty little $. I'd be happy to send you photos of
mine (ASW15) if you'd like.

Mike
ASW15

[[email protected]]

I think you could fashion your own tow out gear or have
> someone do it for pretty little $. I'd be happy to send you photos of
> mine (ASW15) if you'd like.
>
> Mike
> ASW15

Mike that would be fantastic....shoot those pictures to my
email....thank you!

[Martin Gregorie[_4_]]

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:47:45 -0700, tangoeight wrote:

> Note that for Sports Class (USA) regional level contests that a PDA
> based logger is acceptable. Feed it with a cheap hand held GPS (used
> Garmin 12xl or similar) and you can potentially have GPS Nav/logger for
> a couple hundred bucks.
>
The ASW-15 panel is fairly small and has a very deep glare shield lip, so
using a blind GPS might be an attractive way to have a less cluttered
panel. As you'll be running XCSoar or equivalent on the PDA you're going
to put in all turnpoints etc. on the PDA and will never need to use the
controls on a GPS except to turn it on or off, so using a blind GPS and
putting it somewhere out of sight under the glare shield would make
sense.

Blind GPS units are just plastic blobs with a wire sticking out: no
controls at all. You can mount it on top of the panel instruments where
it can see out through the glare shield.

A Garmin GPS-35 or any of the current "hockey puck" blind GPS units would
work provided their input and output voltages are OK. You need one that
runs off 12v and whose output levels match the PDA, e.g. the GPS-35 HVS
model runs off 12v and outputs RS-232 signal levels, so its compatible
with almost any logger or PDA.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Cats]

On Oct 23, 2:06*am, wrote:
> I recently bought a 1972 ASW-15B. *I am on a budget to fix this up.
> I'm looking for stuff that works, doesn't look flashly, but fits the
> need.
>
> I need a:
>
> 1. GPS data logger thats contest worthy

Depends what your rules require. If you want a badge-worthy logger,
the cheapest option if you can find it will be something like an EW
model D with an approved GPS, but it will take time to find them on
Ebay.

If buying new, the new EW Microrecorder is well worth considering -
it've very simple, can be fed 12v from the glider's supply and if you
do that it can feed not only the NMEA stuff to a PDA, but also 5v.

> 2. PDA device and connections

Look into a Palm device from Ebay (depends on what model, something
like the M500 which is b&w is worth looking for otherwise the word
goes that a Tungsten T is the thing to use) and Soaring Pilot which is
free.

>
> 3. Wing Rigger so I can assemble by myself

If you know someone who has one (to copy) and someone who can weld, a
bit of bribery might work cheap wonders.


> 4.Gear so I can tow it by myself to the runway

Same answer as #3, but you have to take great care it will do the job
without damaging the glider. Buying #3 and #4 might cost as much as
the glider did.

However none of the airline pilots I know are broke, or anything like
it!

[BB]

On Oct 22, 8:06*pm, wrote:
> I need a:
>
> 1. GPS data logger thats contest worthy
>
> 2. PDA device and connections

Current US contest rules require "category 1" (IGC blessed) or
"category 2" (see the list) recorders except for sports regionals
where "category 3" recorders meaning just a pda software are allowed.
See the rules

http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rules2008Regional.pdf

There is a proposal before the rules committee to allow some
Commercial Off The Shelf (typcially Garmin) units, plus G7towin or
similar software, as category 2 recorders. These would cost about $150
and seem to provide adequate security.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how long category 3 will last, even in
sports class. It's just too tempting to open the file with notepad,
elminate those two fixes in the restricted area, change a few
altitudes from 18101 feet to 17499 feet etc. Loggers that don't make a
G record, which can be too easily spoofed into making one on fake
data, or for which winscore can't verify security via DLLs may not
last long.

With that in mind, if you suspect you'll be in contest soaring for a
while, I'd recommend blowing the bucks on a category 1 or 2 recorder.
This will avoid what everyone else goes through, blowing 3 times the
money on a sequence of "cheap" alternatives that you then abandon.

Otherwise, I'd wait until December to see what the RC comes up with in
the ongoing logger saga.

John Cochrane BB

[[email protected]]

Since you can't read my email above.... it is liv2soar(at)yahoo.com

[Brad[_2_]]

is there any hope that XC-Soar will get IGC approval for their logger?

Brad

On Oct 23, 7:57*am, BB > wrote:
> On Oct 22, 8:06*pm, wrote:
>
> > I need a:
>
> > 1. GPS data logger thats contest worthy
>
> > 2. PDA device and connections
>
> Current US contest rules require "category 1" (IGC blessed) or
> "category 2" (see the list) recorders except for sports regionals
> where "category 3" recorders meaning just a pda software are allowed.
> See the rules
>
> http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rules2008Regional.pdf
>
> There is a proposal before the rules committee to allow some
> Commercial Off The Shelf (typcially Garmin) units, plus G7towin or
> similar software, as category 2 recorders. These would cost about $150
> and seem to provide adequate security.
>
> On the other hand, I'm not sure how long category 3 will last, even in
> sports class. It's just too tempting to open the file with notepad,
> elminate those two fixes in the restricted area, change a few
> altitudes from 18101 feet to 17499 feet etc. Loggers that don't make a
> G record, which can be too easily spoofed into making one on fake
> data, or for which winscore can't verify security via DLLs may not
> last long.
>
> With that in mind, if you suspect you'll be in contest soaring for a
> while, I'd recommend blowing the bucks on a category 1 or 2 recorder.
> This will avoid what everyone else goes through, blowing 3 times the
> money on a sequence of "cheap" alternatives that you then abandon.
>
> Otherwise, I'd wait until December to see what the RC comes up with in
> the ongoing logger saga.
>
> John Cochrane BB

[Mike[_8_]]

On Oct 23, 8:12*pm, Brad > wrote:
> is there any hope that XC-Soar will get IGC approval for their logger?
>
> Brad
>
> On Oct 23, 7:57*am, BB > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 22, 8:06*pm, wrote:
>
> > > I need a:
>
> > > 1. GPS data logger thats contest worthy
>
> > > 2. PDA device and connections
>
> > Current US contest rules require "category 1" (IGC blessed) or
> > "category 2" (see the list) recorders except for sports regionals
> > where "category 3" recorders meaning just a pda software are allowed.
> > See the rules
>
> >http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rules2008Regional.pdf
>
> > There is a proposal before the rules committee to allow some
> > Commercial Off The Shelf (typcially Garmin) units, plus G7towin or
> > similar software, as category 2 recorders. These would cost about $150
> > and seem to provide adequate security.
>
> > On the other hand, I'm not sure how long category 3 will last, even in
> > sports class. It's just too tempting to open the file with notepad,
> > elminate those two fixes in the restricted area, change a few
> > altitudes from 18101 feet to 17499 feet etc. Loggers that don't make a
> > G record, which can be too easily spoofed into making one on fake
> > data, or for which winscore can't verify security via DLLs may not
> > last long.
>
> > With that in mind, if you suspect you'll be in contest soaring for a
> > while, I'd recommend blowing the bucks on a category 1 or 2 recorder.
> > This will avoid what everyone else goes through, blowing 3 times the
> > money on a sequence of "cheap" alternatives that you then abandon.
>
> > Otherwise, I'd wait until December to see what the RC comes up with in
> > the ongoing logger saga.
>
> > John Cochrane BB

Yes XCSoar has been approved for OLC, and final testing is being done
now. The next release will have OLC validation.
A great news for a great program!

Mike

[Peter Purdie[_3_]]

I think there is some confusion here.

For FAI/IGC Internationally recognised records and badges, evidence from a
secure flight recorder is required.

A number of programs produce fligth records that are in the correct
format, but unless they are from an IGC approved recorder, and pass a
validity check, they cannot be used for validating a flight.

What OLC chooses to accept is a matter for OLC, but unless XC-Soar
produces a hardware set that meets the IGC specification, and submits it
for approval, then IGC approval is not possible.

At 03:38 24 October 2008, Mike wrote:
>On Oct 23, 8:12=A0pm, Brad wrote:
>> is there any hope that XC-Soar will get IGC approval for their logger?
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> On Oct 23, 7:57=A0am, BB wrote:
>>
>> > On Oct 22, 8:06=A0pm, wrote:
>>
>> > > I need a:
>>
>> > > 1. GPS data logger thats contest worthy
>>
>> > > 2. PDA device and connections
>>
>> > Current US contest rules require "category 1" (IGC blessed) or
>> > "category 2" (see the list) recorders except for sports regionals
>> > where "category 3" recorders meaning just a pda software are
allowed.
>> > See the rules
>>
>> >http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rules2008Regional.pdf
>>
>> > There is a proposal before the rules committee to allow some
>> > Commercial Off The Shelf (typcially Garmin) units, plus G7towin or
>> > similar software, as category 2 recorders. These would cost about
$150
>> > and seem to provide adequate security.
>>
>> > On the other hand, I'm not sure how long category 3 will last, even
in
>> > sports class. It's just too tempting to open the file with notepad,
>> > elminate those two fixes in the restricted area, change a few
>> > altitudes from 18101 feet to 17499 feet etc. Loggers that don't make
a
>> > G record, which can be too easily spoofed into making one on fake
>> > data, or for which winscore can't verify security via DLLs may not
>> > last long.
>>
>> > With that in mind, if you suspect you'll be in contest soaring for
a
>> > while, I'd recommend blowing the bucks on a category 1 or 2
recorder.
>> > This will avoid what everyone else goes through, blowing 3 times the
>> > money on a sequence of "cheap" alternatives that you then abandon.
>>
>> > Otherwise, I'd wait until December to see what the RC comes up with
in
>> > the ongoing logger saga.
>>
>> > John Cochrane BB
>
>Yes XCSoar has been approved for OLC, and final testing is being done
>now. The next release will have OLC validation.
>A great news for a great program!
>
>Mike
>

[Karl Striedieck]

Back to the one-man rig issue. Unless you are in an unusual situation you
should be able to get along without this contraption. They are expensive and
use up too much space. At contests, clubs and commercial operations there is
always help.

If you do find yourself facing a solo assembly, use the two-blanket method
I've employed on a few occasions. Using old fluffy quilt-type blankets at
the tail and another where the tip will be when inserted into the fuselage,
assembly can be done as fast and safe as with a one-man rig.

Write me for assembly details if you go this way.

Karl Striedieck


"Peter Purdie" > wrote in message
...
>I think there is some confusion here.
>
> For FAI/IGC Internationally recognised records and badges, evidence from a
> secure flight recorder is required.
>
> A number of programs produce fligth records that are in the correct
> format, but unless they are from an IGC approved recorder, and pass a
> validity check, they cannot be used for validating a flight.
>
> What OLC chooses to accept is a matter for OLC, but unless XC-Soar
> produces a hardware set that meets the IGC specification, and submits it
> for approval, then IGC approval is not possible.
>
> At 03:38 24 October 2008, Mike wrote:
>>On Oct 23, 8:12=A0pm, Brad wrote:
>>> is there any hope that XC-Soar will get IGC approval for their logger?
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> On Oct 23, 7:57=A0am, BB wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Oct 22, 8:06=A0pm, wrote:
>>>
>>> > > I need a:
>>>
>>> > > 1. GPS data logger thats contest worthy
>>>
>>> > > 2. PDA device and connections
>>>
>>> > Current US contest rules require "category 1" (IGC blessed) or
>>> > "category 2" (see the list) recorders except for sports regionals
>>> > where "category 3" recorders meaning just a pda software are
> allowed.
>>> > See the rules
>>>
>>> >http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rules2008Regional.pdf
>>>
>>> > There is a proposal before the rules committee to allow some
>>> > Commercial Off The Shelf (typcially Garmin) units, plus G7towin or
>>> > similar software, as category 2 recorders. These would cost about
> $150
>>> > and seem to provide adequate security.
>>>
>>> > On the other hand, I'm not sure how long category 3 will last, even
> in
>>> > sports class. It's just too tempting to open the file with notepad,
>>> > elminate those two fixes in the restricted area, change a few
>>> > altitudes from 18101 feet to 17499 feet etc. Loggers that don't make
> a
>>> > G record, which can be too easily spoofed into making one on fake
>>> > data, or for which winscore can't verify security via DLLs may not
>>> > last long.
>>>
>>> > With that in mind, if you suspect you'll be in contest soaring for
> a
>>> > while, I'd recommend blowing the bucks on a category 1 or 2
> recorder.
>>> > This will avoid what everyone else goes through, blowing 3 times the
>>> > money on a sequence of "cheap" alternatives that you then abandon.
>>>
>>> > Otherwise, I'd wait until December to see what the RC comes up with
> in
>>> > the ongoing logger saga.
>>>
>>> > John Cochrane BB
>>
>>Yes XCSoar has been approved for OLC, and final testing is being done
>>now. The next release will have OLC validation.
>>A great news for a great program!
>>
>>Mike
>>

[Cats]

On Oct 24, 8:00*am, Peter Purdie > wrote:
<snip>
> unless XC-Soar
> produces a hardware set that meets the IGC specification, and submits it
> for approval, then IGC approval is not possible.

And since XC Soar is PDA software I think there is no chance of that
happening.

[jb92563]

XC-SOAR is OLC approved! Awesome.

I put my moving map together on a Dell Axim x51v with a Helix GPS card
that simply inserts in the top of the PDA.

Its advisable to go with the Higher resolution mainstream PDA's from
Dell or HP etc you will be glad you did.

I loaded it with XC Soar and it works fantastic.

XC-Soar is especially nice because it is open source(free) and the way
it is designed you can remap buttons, rearrange the display, and
interface with other instruments like airspeed or vario. You could
even extend the funtionality if your a real programing geek.

The community support site is where you submits bugs, questions and
enhancement requests and new features or improvements regularly pop
up.

Anyway my Dell PDA & GPS card cost $125 on eBay and works fabulously,
the only thing I changed was buy a higher capacity battery and cover
for $12.

I also get wireless internet on the PDA from the Soaring Club so I can
check out last minute weather updates, and peruse airport information,
upload IGC files to the OLC etc. without having to get on the clubs
PC.

So there you have a very affordable solution for your "15"


Ray



> Yes XCSoar has been approved for OLC, and final testing is being done
> now. The next release will have OLC validation.
> A great news for a great program!
>
> Mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Andy[_1_]]

On Oct 24, 2:35*am, "Karl Striedieck" > wrote:

> Write me for assembly details if you go this way.

Now Karl you have teased the thousands that lurk and the few that
post. How about sharing the blanket method? Best I can think of
is one blanket to the hold the broken bits and the other to hide my
face, but you say it works so there must be more to it than that. ;)

Andy

[Frank[_1_]]

On Oct 24, 4:35*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Oct 24, 2:35*am, "Karl Striedieck" > wrote:
>
> > Write me for assembly details if you go this way.
>
> Now Karl you have teased the thousands that lurk and the few that
> post. *How about sharing the blanket method? * * Best I can think of
> is one blanket to the hold the broken bits and the other to hide my
> face, but you say it works so there must be more to it than that. ;)
>
> Andy

No, you have it wrong. One blanket is to support the babe in micro-
bikini that is essential to this method. The babe attracts soaring
pilots, who then help you rig/de-rig. The babe may require some
upkeep ;-).

Frank (TA)

[Karl Striedieck]

Andy (and other curious or economically challenged souls),

Here is the letter I sent to Scott:

You will need two wing stands, or one wing stand and a table,box, etc. to
> hold both wings at the right height for installing the pins. This also
> assumes you have an adjustable ramp so the fuselage dolly will go up and
> down a little. If not, no problem, you can put stuff under the wings to
> raise/lower them.
>
> Measure where the wing tip will be when it is pulled out of the trailer
> and put a blanket there so that there is enough blanket to the rear for
> sliding the tip further. Tilt the fuselage to the right (right wing on
> first with Schleicher) so that it points where the tip will be on the
> ground. Pull the tip out, put it on the blanket, go to the spar and lift
> it up and put it down on the other (outermost) pin hole. Rotate the wing
> until it is directly opposite the spar box, put it down on the other
> blanket, go to the root and rotate the wing flat. Insert the right spar
> into the fuselage. You will be at the root dragging the tip on the other
> blanket. Raise the right wing and support it with some sort of wing stand.
>
> The second wing (left) is handled the same until you slide it in. For this
> you lay the spar tip on the fuselage, which will give about a one inch
> support, and then go to the tip and pick it up for the slide in. This is
> where you will need a second wing support of the correct height to allow
> the pins to slide in. Minor adjustments can be made if your ramp raises
> and lowers.
>
> This all assumes you are using a trailer that is compatible with this
> operation. If it is a home-made rig , modifications may be required. Let
> me know.
>
> I've done this a number of times on my 27, which has no push rods to
> catch. You may have to figure out something if that is a problem on your
> 15.
>
> Let me know if you need more details.
>

> wrote in message
...
>I recently bought a 1972 ASW-15B. I am on a budget to fix this up.
> I'm looking for stuff that works, doesn't look flashly, but fits the
> need.
>
> I need a:
>
> 1. GPS data logger thats contest worthy
>
> 2. PDA device and connections
>
> 3. Wing Rigger so I can assemble by myself
>
> 4.Gear so I can tow it by myself to the runway
>
> Thank You - Scott Alexander

[Andy[_1_]]

On Oct 24, 2:25*pm, "Karl Striedieck" > wrote:
> Andy (and other curious or economically challenged souls),
>
> Here is the letter I sent to Scott:


Thanks Karl! I can see how that would work if really stuck for help.
Sounds like there is some pretty awkward lifting, pulling, and pushing
and a good chance of tweaking your back though.

Andy

[Dave Martin[_2_]]

This is not so mfar fetched

Some years ago on a soaring holiday at Lasham UK, a rather beautiful young
lady arrived and started to get a Discus out of its trailer and made as if
to start rigging.

She was soon joined by eager young men who helped her assemble the glider
- once rigged she left and returned with grandfather who went flying for
the day....

In two weeks I never saw the crafty old beggar rig the glider once but he
flew it every soarable day.....................



At 21:04 24 October 2008, Frank wrote:
>On Oct 24, 4:35=A0pm, Andy wrote:
>> On Oct 24, 2:35=A0am, "Karl Striedieck" wrote:
>>
>> > Write me for assembly details if you go this way.
>>
>> Now Karl you have teased the thousands that lurk and the few that
>> post. =A0How about sharing the blanket method? =A0 =A0 Best I can
think
>o=
>f
>> is one blanket to the hold the broken bits and the other to hide my
>> face, but you say it works so there must be more to it than that. ;)
>>
>> Andy
>
>No, you have it wrong. One blanket is to support the babe in micro-
>bikini that is essential to this method. The babe attracts soaring
>pilots, who then help you rig/de-rig. The babe may require some
>upkeep ;-).
>
>Frank (TA)
>

[Doug Hoffman]

Cats wrote:
> On Oct 23, 2:06 am, wrote:
>> I recently bought a 1972 ASW-15B. I am on a budget to fix this up.
>> I'm looking for stuff that works, doesn't look flashly, but fits the
>> need.
>>
>> I need a:

>> 4.Gear so I can tow it by myself to the runway
>
> Same answer as #3, but you have to take great care it will do the job
> without damaging the glider.

I agree with that regarding the tow-out bar. But if one has a good
working example unit(or specifications/photo of same) then a safe
tow-out bar is easily/cheaply made. I have seen large diameter conduit
or square section aluminum extrusion used as the main structure.
Bolting that to a ball hitch coupler is a no brainer. The tricky part
is getting a secure/safe attachment of that to the glider fuse.

The tow-out wheel, which "cuffs" onto one wing, is most easily/cheaply
made and there is little chance of damaging the glider if common sense
is used. I have made several for about $25 apiece. Use a child's bicycle
front wheel (search the neighborhood on trash collection day or stop at
some garage sales), some 2x4 and 2x6 wood, a gate hinge and pipe flange
from the hardware store, a cinching latch from Production Tool Supply or
McMaster-Carr. Cut the wood wing cuff about 3/4" too large for the
airfoil. Wrap the wing section in saran for protection. Use Great
Stuff expanding insulation foam to fill the gap and provide a wing cuff
that "perfectly" fits the wing. I can provide photos of the last one I
made (for a LAK-12). Works great. Easy and quick to make. Cheap.

Regards,

-Doug

[[email protected]]

Doug that would be nice to see some pictures.

It looks like I'm getting most everything I need so far.



Mark Hawkins is hooking me up with a killer deal. He sold me his GPS/
PDA and a towout bar that's almost finished. What a deal. Can't wait
to get it.

Thank you Mark!