My first flight in a glider... finally!

[vic20owner]

I realize this is old hat for most of you guys, but I figured I'd post
something for lurkers who are interested in this sport but have yet to
take the first step.

I posted here about a year ago asking about flying gliders, and I was
pointed to a local gliderport (www.soarfl.com). Here is the follow
up.

I've been flying R/C gliders for the past 20 years, always dreaming of
flying the real thing. Well, many jobs and a child later, here I was
a 37 still having not even attempted to achieve that goal. Time is
running out!

I took the first step.

I signed up for that intro flight.

Then, I spent some time flying on a simulator and reading the glider
flying handbook. I wanted to learn as much as I could before the
intro flight so I would have a good idea of what was going on and
why. I spent a few months flying on the simulator, learning to
thermal, take off and land.

Last weekend the day had finally arrived and I made the drive to the
glider port. The weather was perfect. Blue sky with small puffy
cumulus clouds scattered across the sky. Within a mile of the
gliderport I could see a glider circling and then disappearing into
the distance. Incredible. Something about the shape of a glider is
just beautiful.

When I finally arrived, the instructor, welcomed me in shorts, t-
shirt and no shoes. It is sunny Florida after all, so this is not
unusual but I still got a chuckle out of it. The laid back and
relaxed attitude sort of took me off guard. This attitude reminded me
of sailing more than the uptight instructor attitude I was expecting.
I was immediately comfortable. I was also taken back by the
gliderport. Nice grassy field surrounded by just a few houses (all of
them with hangers) and very quiet. This was also not at all what I
expected. This was a place you could just hang around, watch, and
relax.

We pulled the glider onto the runway, I got strapped in, and within a
minute or two the towplane was there and we were off. I was
frantically snapping pictures with my disposable camera as we towed up
to 4000'. After circling in a few thermals he asked me if I knew how
the controls worked at which point I naturally said YES YES YES!!

Well, sort of, I hadn't used rudder pedals on my simulator. The lack
of rudder pedal experience became immediately obvious as the nose
oscillated back and forth every time I tried to bank into a turn.

After some practice and tips from the instructor I finally managed to
get a few coordinated turns and also managed to catch my own thermal.
I felt that bump in the rear, started circling, and up we went. Whooo
hooo. cool!

After eventually losing the thermal, the instructor took the controls
back and worked a few more thermals to buy us some more time in the
air. I was handed the controls a few more times and of course did
some more poorly coordinated turns. :P

Regardless of my absolute lack of coordination, I was having a great
time. I expected to be a bit nervous in the air but I wasn't at
all... we did a few "roller coaster rides", and then came in for the
approach.

I looked at the altimeter... just over 500'. half spoilers ...
Downwind leg ... base leg... (at this point I am proud of myself for
knowing how to land even though I am not the one flying) ... approach
and touchdown.

While I may not have expressed my excitement enough to the instructor
(I'm a fairly quiet guy) this was an amazing experience. I thanked
him and I was so excited and so busy replaying the flight in my head I
forgot to hand him the gratuity I had for him in my pocket! Argh! No
problem I will be back soon and he will get it then :)

When I arrived home I installed a set of rudder pedals on my simulator
and practiced winch launches, coordinated turns, and landings all
night long.

I've also planned out a budget so I can start my flying lessons. I
guess that means I am hooked.

I posted some pictures here:
http://www.floridakiteboarder.com/soaring/1/

-tom

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Oct 24, 7:35*am, vic20owner > wrote:
> I realize this is old hat for most of you guys, but I figured I'd post
> something for lurkers who are interested in this sport but have yet to
> take the first step.
>
> I posted here about a year ago asking about flying gliders, and I was
> pointed to a local gliderport (www.soarfl.com). * Here is the follow
> up.
>
> I've been flying R/C gliders for the past 20 years, always dreaming of
> flying the real thing. *Well, many jobs and a child later, here I was
> a 37 still having not even attempted to achieve that goal. *Time is
> running out!
>
> I took the first step.
>
> I signed up for that intro flight.
>
> Then, I spent some time flying on a simulator and reading the glider
> flying handbook. * I wanted to learn as much as I could before the
> intro flight so I would have a good idea of what was going on and
> why. *I spent a few months flying on the simulator, learning to
> thermal, take off and land.
>
> Last weekend the day had finally arrived and I made the drive to the
> glider port. *The weather was perfect. *Blue sky with small puffy
> cumulus clouds scattered across the sky. *Within a mile of the
> gliderport I could see a glider circling and then disappearing into
> the distance. *Incredible. *Something about the shape of a glider is
> just beautiful.
>
> When I finally arrived, the instructor, *welcomed me in shorts, t-
> shirt and no shoes. * It is sunny Florida after all, so this is not
> unusual but I still got a chuckle out of it. * *The laid back and
> relaxed attitude sort of took me off guard. *This attitude reminded me
> of sailing more than the uptight instructor attitude I was expecting.
> I was immediately comfortable. *I was also taken back by the
> gliderport. *Nice grassy field surrounded by just a few houses (all of
> them with hangers) and very quiet. *This was also not at all what I
> expected. *This was a place you could just hang around, watch, and
> relax.
>
> We pulled the glider onto the runway, I got strapped in, and within a
> minute or two the towplane was there and we were off. *I was
> frantically snapping pictures with my disposable camera as we towed up
> to 4000'. *After circling in a few thermals he asked me if I knew how
> the controls worked at which point I naturally said YES YES YES!!
>
> Well, sort of, I hadn't used rudder pedals on my simulator. *The lack
> of rudder pedal experience became immediately obvious as the nose
> oscillated back and forth every time I tried to bank into a turn.
>
> After some practice and tips from the instructor I finally managed to
> get a few coordinated turns and also managed to catch my own thermal.
> I felt that bump in the rear, started circling, and up we went. *Whooo
> hooo. *cool!
>
> After eventually losing the thermal, the instructor took the controls
> back and worked a few more thermals to buy us some more time in the
> air. *I was handed the controls a few more times and of course did
> some more poorly coordinated turns. :P
>
> Regardless of my absolute lack of coordination, I was having a great
> time. *I expected to be a bit nervous in the air but I wasn't at
> all... *we did a few "roller coaster rides", and then came in for the
> approach.
>
> I looked at the altimeter... just over 500'. *half spoilers ...
> Downwind leg ... base leg... (at this point I am proud of myself for
> knowing how to land even though I am not the one flying) ... approach
> and touchdown.
>
> While I may not have expressed my excitement enough to the instructor
> (I'm a fairly quiet guy) this was an amazing experience. *I thanked
> him and I was so excited and so busy replaying the flight in my head I
> forgot to hand him the gratuity I had for him in my pocket! *Argh! *No
> problem I will be back soon and he will get it then :)
>
> When I arrived home I installed a set of rudder pedals on my simulator
> and practiced winch launches, coordinated turns, and landings all
> night long.
>
> I've also planned out a budget so I can start my flying lessons. *I
> guess that means I am hooked.
>
> I posted some pictures here:http://www.floridakiteboarder.com/soaring/1/
>
> -tom

Glad you got out to the field and got your first flight! 37? Not
that old. I didn't make the jump to full scale until I was 47, and
many others have come to it later in life. I flew model planes (U/C,
FF, RC) for 40 years before finally getting into a glider. As fun and
addictive as that was, full scale soaring is more fun and more
addictive. Enjoy!

[[email protected]]

Hmmm...T-shirt, shorts, and no shoes...must have been Jim Gager at
Seminole-Lake Gliderport. Cool guy. I spent a week there and only saw
him wear shoes once...when we went to a restaurant.

[vic20owner]

On Oct 24, 11:18 am, wrote:
> Hmmm...T-shirt, shorts, and no shoes...must have been Jim Gager at
> Seminole-Lake Gliderport. Cool guy. I spent a week there and only saw
> him wear shoes once...when we went to a restaurant.

Hah! Yes, it was Jim. Great guy. Too funny.

[Michael Ash]

vic20owner > wrote:
>
> I realize this is old hat for most of you guys, but I figured I'd post
> something for lurkers who are interested in this sport but have yet to
> take the first step.

Thank you very much for posting this. I'm no lurker, and I've been flying
for a couple of years, but it's always nice to hear a great story from
someone who's just getting into it. I hope that your continued lessons go
well and look forward to hearing more about them from you.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[[email protected]]

Congratulations on that first flight! It's an experience you'll
probably never forget, even after hundreds of flights. I never did.

If it's any solace to you (beg!inning to soar at 47), I began soaring
at age 70. I'm now seven years in the air (800 logged hours) and going
strong. Never look back!!!

Fly safe, and best wishes for future flights.

Matt

[st4s03]

On Oct 24, 8:35*am, vic20owner > wrote:
<<>>

Congrat's on your first flight and thanks for the pictures. Just a
couple of things caught my eye, and may be nothing, but I thought I
would bring them up. First, I have heard over the years that it is
very hard on the spar system of a G103 to pull the glider using just
the wing tips. The spar and connections were not made to bend that way
and the leverage caused by pulling forward may cause damage. Also I
notice that your instructor seems to be flying the pattern at about 53
knots in a fully loaded G103. This seems way too slow to me, not that
far over stall speed. Just my opinion for what it's worth.
Thanks.

[Andreas Maurer[_1_]]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:14:39 -0700 (PDT), st4s03 >
wrote:

>Also I
>notice that your instructor seems to be flying the pattern at about 53
>knots in a fully loaded G103. This seems way too slow to me, not that
>far over stall speed. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

53 kts is the perfect approach speed for the G-103 (stall speed 39
kts) with calm winds - how fast would you fly the approach?

Bye
Andreas

[st4s03]

>On Oct 28, 7:21*am, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
> 53 kts is the perfect approach speed for the G-103 (stall speed 39
> kts) with calm winds - how fast would you fly the approach?
>
> Bye
> Andreas

I fly the pattern in a 103 with 2 people at 60kts in calm air and
faster in wind. Stall speed with spoilers closed on a “new” ship with
perfect wings was listed at 39kts. With spoilers extended that goes to
43kts. Now ad 25 years of exposure to the elements and that figure may
go up by a couple of knots. Then bank 35 degrees from base to final
with spoilers open and 2 big guys in the cockpit and you may be close
to 50kts. Then hit a thermal gust, or shear of 10kts, or the lower
wing goes into wind gradient and at 53kts airspeed you are looking at
the ground. Maybe I'm too cautious but I' still alive.

[Pete Smith]

At 18:49 28 October 2008, st4s03 wrote:
>>On Oct 28, 7:21=A0am, Andreas Maurer wrote:
>> 53 kts is the perfect approach speed for the G-103 (stall speed 39
>> kts) with calm winds - how fast would you fly the approach?
>>http://ras.gliderpilot.net/?op=a1&id=68531
>> Bye
>> Andreas
>
> I fly the pattern in a 103 with 2 people at 60kts in calm air and
>faster in wind. Stall speed with spoilers closed on a =93new=94 ship
with
>perfect wings was listed at 39kts. With spoilers extended that goes to
>43kts. Now ad 25 years of exposure to the elements and that figure may
>go up by a couple of knots. Then bank 35 degrees from base to final
>with spoilers open and 2 big guys in the cockpit and you may be close
>to 50kts. Then hit a thermal gust, or shear of 10kts, or the lower
>wing goes into wind gradient and at 53kts airspeed you are looking at
>the ground. Maybe I'm too cautious but I' still alive.
>

Look up what the yellow triangle on the asi means in the flight manual.

[st4s03]

On Oct 28, 1:45*pm, Pete Smith > wrote:
> At 18:49 28 October 2008, st4s03 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >>On Oct 28, 7:21=A0am, Andreas Maurer *wrote:
> >> 53 kts is the perfect approach speed for the G-103 (stall speed 39
> >> kts) with calm winds - how fast would you fly the approach?
> >>http://ras.gliderpilot.net/?op=a1&id=68531
> >> Bye
> >> Andreas
>
> > I fly the pattern in a 103 with 2 people at 60kts in calm air and
> >faster in wind. Stall speed with spoilers closed on a =93new=94 ship
> with
> >perfect wings was listed at 39kts. With spoilers extended that goes to
> >43kts. Now ad 25 years of exposure to the elements and that figure may
> >go up by a couple of knots. Then bank 35 degrees from base to final
> >with spoilers open and 2 big guys in the cockpit and you may be close
> >to 50kts. Then hit a thermal gust, or shear of 10kts, or the lower
> >wing goes into wind gradient and at 53kts airspeed you are looking at
> >the ground. Maybe I'm too cautious but I' still alive.
>
> Look up what the yellow triangle on the asi means in the flight manual.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It means "Approach Speed at Max Weight". Short final approach speed is
different than pattern speed in my book. I am referring to speed
through the pattern.

[Frank[_1_]]

Congratulations on your first glider ride!

If you don't have it already, get a copy of Condor
(www.condorsoaring.com) and learn to fly with it. Since you have
rudder pedals, turn off the auto-coordination, and you'll get a very
realistic soaring simulator.

Regards,

Frank (TA)



> When I arrived home I installed a set of rudder pedals on my simulator
> and practiced winch launches, coordinated turns, and landings all
> night long.
>
> I've also planned out a budget so I can start my flying lessons. *I
> guess that means I am hooked.
>
> I posted some pictures here:http://www.floridakiteboarder.com/soaring/1/
>
> -tom

[Bruce]

Less perfect wings (rougher) generally have a softer stall, as they have more turbulent flow.

My math says 53-39 = 14kt = 36% margin between stall and yellow triangle.

If you add a wind component - even if the wind is a really interesting 20kt and you add 50% of wind you are still at
63kt. Assume I am unwise enough to be in a 30 degee bank with full airbrake in known turbulence, and a 20kt wind, again,
simple math says 63-43 = 20kt. So even in a worst case it would take a reversal of wind direction of greater than 2*20kt
- or 40kt difference from the established wind to stall a wing. Anything that can produce that is going to be more than
you can overcome with control input. The only place I can see this being a consideration would be where there is rotor
touching the ground, in which case you are in so much trouble already, you may as well have as much energy as possible
until you are on the ground.

From a safety point of view the idea of turning base or final with full airbrake deployed is not something I would
advocate. We teach that you should not have to use full brake on approach - it is an indication that your energy is too
high. Now you have used all of the available control and limited options.

The G103 has enormous airbrakes, and you can get rid of the energy. Try that in something really slippery like a Duo
Discus and you are in the HELP - High Energy Landing Problem (Or other rhyming words). Done that too - far better to
have the right energy level, even when the ground wind is high.

My 2c worth.
Bruce

st4s03 wrote:
> On Oct 28, 1:45 pm, Pete Smith > wrote:
>> At 18:49 28 October 2008, st4s03 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Oct 28, 7:21=A0am, Andreas Maurer wrote:
>>>> 53 kts is the perfect approach speed for the G-103 (stall speed 39
>>>> kts) with calm winds - how fast would you fly the approach?
>>>> http://ras.gliderpilot.net/?op=a1&id=68531
>>>> Bye
>>>> Andreas
>>> I fly the pattern in a 103 with 2 people at 60kts in calm air and
>>> faster in wind. Stall speed with spoilers closed on a =93new=94 ship
>> with
>>> perfect wings was listed at 39kts. With spoilers extended that goes to
>>> 43kts. Now ad 25 years of exposure to the elements and that figure may
>>> go up by a couple of knots. Then bank 35 degrees from base to final
>>> with spoilers open and 2 big guys in the cockpit and you may be close
>>> to 50kts. Then hit a thermal gust, or shear of 10kts, or the lower
>>> wing goes into wind gradient and at 53kts airspeed you are looking at
>>> the ground. Maybe I'm too cautious but I' still alive.
>> Look up what the yellow triangle on the asi means in the flight manual.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> It means "Approach Speed at Max Weight". Short final approach speed is
> different than pattern speed in my book. I am referring to speed
> through the pattern.

[Andy[_1_]]

On Oct 28, 10:46*pm, Bruce > wrote:
>We teach that you should not have to use full brake on approach - it
is an indication that your >energy is too high. Now you have used all
of the available control and limited options.

Every glider I ever flew allowed a large increase in sink rate
compared to full spoiler/airbrakes if a slip was also used, so I don't
agree that all available control is used when the airbrakes are full
open. Several times I have used full airbrakes and full rudder slip
to get my energy down to a partial brake approach. I practice that at
the start of every season. Using full airbrake for all the approach
does not indicate energy is too high as long as the glider touches
down at the intended point at minimum energy. Being able to fly a
full brake, full slip approach may save your glider on the day you are
faced with a small field with high obstacles on the approach.

So, while it's nice to fly a half airbrake approach to a touchdown at
the intended point, it's also good to have the skill to fly very steep
approaches and full airbrake is not usually the limit.

Andy

[jb92563]

Congratulations Tom, it is easy to get hooked and after your lessons
are done you will want your own glider after you have transitioned
through the fleet so start a fund for that as well.

My story is like many others.

Got hooked when I was 7.

I still have an affection for the Diamant even though I never flew
one, but it was the first one I ever saw up close and the owner was
very kind and showed me all the controls.

Dad sent me up on a ride way back then in a 2-33 and it made me a bit
sick with all the circling but I was hooked non the less.

I got dad to buy me a few more rides over the years, then life got
busy, school, work, family etc.

When I hit 35 I decided to budget for it and did it.

Once I got divorced(Not flying related) things really took off since I
had my time and money available again.

Now at 48 I own 2 motor gliders, a regular glider, a paraglider and an
Ultralight.

When it moves from hobby to compulsion I suppose that is what
happens. ;-)

Ray

[vic20owner]

It's been a week since I've checked on this thread, thanks for the
replies.

The spoilers and landing airspeed discussion was interesting and I
understand what the concerns are regarding the final turn+spoilers+low
speed (and possibly momentary tail wind) = stall. Wind on this day
was 4 knots or less on average.

My next flight is this Sunday and I am greatly looking forward to it.
Naturally the more I learn the less I can stop thinking about it.

Yes, I do fly in Condor (simulator) often. I have started using rudder
pedals and disabled the twist control for the rudder. I have been
practicing winch launches (fun) and stall and stall spin recovery, and
landings. I will soon find out if I have taught myself bad habits! I
have been doing a lot of reading (glider flying handbook) and watching
a lot of videos of other's glider lessons (many found on youtube).
Lately I have been avoiding tow ups because I do not want to learn bad
habits for dealing with slack in the rope, etc.

Yellow Triangle = lowest recommended approach speed at max weight
without water ballast, correct?

I have been searching google but am unable to find the steps in which
a student generally progresses through lessons. For example, trim for
speed, coordinated turns, stall recovery, landing, takeoff, etc. I am
sure this varies depending on student and instructor, but it would be
nice to know which things I should be practicing in the simulator for
my next few flying lessons.

Thanks
-tom

[Edward]

At 18:11 07 November 2008, vic20owner wrote:
>It's been a week since I've checked on this thread, thanks for the
>replies.
>
>The spoilers and landing airspeed discussion was interesting and I
>understand what the concerns are regarding the final turn+spoilers+low
>speed (and possibly momentary tail wind) = stall. Wind on this day
>was 4 knots or less on average.
>
>My next flight is this Sunday and I am greatly looking forward to it.
>Naturally the more I learn the less I can stop thinking about it.
>
>Yes, I do fly in Condor (simulator) often. I have started using rudder
>pedals and disabled the twist control for the rudder. I have been
>practicing winch launches (fun) and stall and stall spin recovery, and
>landings. I will soon find out if I have taught myself bad habits! I
>have been doing a lot of reading (glider flying handbook) and watching
>a lot of videos of other's glider lessons (many found on youtube).
>Lately I have been avoiding tow ups because I do not want to learn bad
>habits for dealing with slack in the rope, etc.
>
>Yellow Triangle = lowest recommended approach speed at max weight
>without water ballast, correct?
>

Absolutely correct for anything designed according to modern European
standards. Older stuff or non-Euro gliders may not have this marking.


>I have been searching google but am unable to find the steps in which
>a student generally progresses through lessons. For example, trim for
>speed, coordinated turns, stall recovery, landing, takeoff, etc. I am
>sure this varies depending on student and instructor, but it would be
>nice to know which things I should be practicing in the simulator for
>my next few flying lessons.
>
>Thanks
>-tom
>

That's a reasonable syllabus; get used to handling the glider safely in
the air before doing too much close to the ground. Once you can land then
expect to be taught pattern/circuit planning, spin avoidance & recovery
and, if learning at a winch site, plenty of launch failures.

Have fun,
Edward

[[email protected]]

Tom

Check out the following site:
http://skylinesoaring.org/TRAINING/Syllabus/

Lots of good training info.

Bob

[vic20owner]

Thanks guys. I flew twice more over the weekend (Blanik L23) and
landed both times (instructor handled the air brakes and talked me
through it), and spent some time on the tow during the 2nd flight
starting at around 500'. I had a great time and learned a lot.