anti-sub a/c

[niceguy[_2_]]

[Alan Erskine[_3_]]

"niceguy" > wrote in message
ng.com...

S-3 Viking. The second aircraft image is an S-1. Why wasn't there an
"S-2"?

[Robert Moore]

"Alan Erskine" wrote
>
> S-3 Viking. The second aircraft image is an S-1. Why wasn't there an
> "S-2"?

Must have been....my logbook shows about 200 hours of pilot time in
the S2F Tracker. :)

Bob Moore

[Dave Kearton[_2_]]

"Robert Moore" > wrote in message
5.250...
"Alan Erskine" wrote
> >
> > S-3 Viking. The second aircraft image is an S-1. Why wasn't there an
> > "S-2"?

> Must have been....my logbook shows about 200 hours of pilot time in
> the S2F Tracker. :)

> Bob Moore



Hey Bob,


You must have seen the footage of the S-2 taking off from Midway (IIRC) and
flying through an ocean swell.


That must have been the only time that a cockpit was cleaner on the outside
than in. How many times can you do that and get away with it ?




--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[Mike Mackenzie]

"Dave Kearton" > wrote (in
part):

>You must have seen the footage of the S-2 taking off from Midway (IIRC) and
>flying through an ocean swell.
>
>
>That must have been the only time that a cockpit was cleaner on the outside
>than in. How many times can you do that and get away with it ?

Do you have a link to that footage - or has it not been digitised?

--
Mike Mackenzie (AVCOM Services)
Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Remove "XYZ" from the "Reply to" address when responding by email.

[Dave Kearton[_2_]]

"Mike Mackenzie" > wrote in message
...
"Dave Kearton" > wrote (in
part):

> >You must have seen the footage of the S-2 taking off from Midway (IIRC)
> >and
> >flying through an ocean swell.
> >
> >
> >That must have been the only time that a cockpit was cleaner on the
> >outside
> >than in. How many times can you do that and get away with it ?

> Do you have a link to that footage - or has it not been digitised?

> --
> Mike Mackenzie (AVCOM Services)


I have it (somewhere), when I find it, I'll post it here. I'll also
bet my left one that a short search on Youtube will find it as well.





--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[Alan Erskine[_3_]]

"Robert Moore" > wrote in message
5.250...
> "Alan Erskine" wrote
>>
>> S-3 Viking. The second aircraft image is an S-1. Why wasn't there an
>> "S-2"?
>
> Must have been....my logbook shows about 200 hours of pilot time in
> the S2F Tracker. :)
>
> Bob Moore

Oops. ;-) I meant, why wasn't there an S-1? Was it due to the 1960's
nomenclature change?

[Dave Kearton[_2_]]

"Mike Mackenzie" > wrote in message
...
"Dave Kearton" > wrote (in
part):

> >You must have seen the footage of the S-2 taking off from Midway (IIRC)
> >and
> >flying through an ocean swell.
> >
> >
> >That must have been the only time that a cockpit was cleaner on the
> >outside
> >than in. How many times can you do that and get away with it ?

> Do you have a link to that footage - or has it not been digitised?

> --
> Mike Mackenzie (AVCOM Services)


Sorry for the crappy quality, the original footage wasn't good. I'm
sure I've seen better video in the past, if I dig it up, I'll post it.





--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[niceguy[_2_]]

Grumman S2F/S-2 Tracker

click on photo for more images
In the late 1940s, the US Navy finalized its ideas on a carrier-based
submarine hunter/killer aircraft. The Grumman S2F was designed to meet this
role and first flew in 1952. The S2F was redesignated as the S-2 in 1962
and not phased out until replaced by the Lockheed S-3 Viking in the
mid-1970s.

Variants of the Tracker were also used as transports (the C-1 Trader)
and Airborne Early Warning aircraft (the E-1 Tracer).

Trackers served in the armed forces of Australia, Canada and Israel.

After being phased out of military service, several Trackers have been
converted to firefighting aircraft named the Firecat.

The original designation of S2F led to this aircraft's other
nickname...Stoof.

[niceguy[_2_]]

No S1. Went from AF to S2F.

[niceguy[_2_]]

Grumman Aircraft:

a.. The Cats
a.. F4F Wildcat
b.. F6F Hellcat
c.. F7F Tigercat
d.. F8F Bearcat
e.. F9F Panther
f.. F9F/F-9 Cougar
g.. XF10F Jaguar
h.. F11F/F-11 Tiger
i.. F-14 Tomcat
a.. Fighter aircraft
a.. Grumman FF
b.. Grumman F2F
c.. Grumman F3F
d.. XF5F Skyrocket
e.. Grumman XP-50
a.. Attack
a.. AF Guardian
b.. A-6 Intruder
a.. Bomber
a.. TBF Avenger
a.. Amphibious
a.. JF Duck
b.. J2F Duck
c.. G-21 Goose some modified as Super or Turbo Goose
d.. G-44 Widgeon
e.. HU-16 Albatross (Coast Guard UF-1/UF-2, Navy U-16, Civilian G-111)
f.. G-73 Mallard
a.. Other
a.. C-1 Trader
b.. E-1 Tracer
c.. S-2 Tracker
d.. E-2 Hawkeye
e.. C-2 Greyhound
f.. OV-1 Mohawk
g.. EA-6B Prowler
h.. Grumman X-29A

[Scubabix]

"Alan Erskine" > wrote in message
...
> "niceguy" > wrote in message
> ng.com...
>
> S-3 Viking. The second aircraft image is an S-1. Why wasn't there an
> "S-2"?
>

The second image is an S-2. I think you're confusing it with the C-1
Trader, the cargo version of the same aircraft.

[Scenic[_5_]]

niceguy wrote:

> No S1. Went from AF to S2F.

There were S2E's, at least in this part of the world there were.
Try Googling S2E Tracker.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

Alan Erskine wrote:
>
> S-3 Viking. The second aircraft image is an S-1. Why wasn't there an
>"S-2"?
>

The second aircraft image is an S-2C, previously designated S2F-2.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

Alan Erskine wrote:
>
> Oops. ;-) I meant, why wasn't there an S-1? Was it due to the 1960's
> nomenclature change?
>

The first purpose-built ASW aircraft was the Grumman AF Guardian, it
preceded the S designation for such aircraft. The second purpose-built ASW
aircraft was the Grumman S2F Tracker. It was designated S2F because it was
the second ASW aircraft built for the Navy by Grumman. With the Tri-Service
designation system the S2F became the S-2. Why not S-1? Probably just to
keep things as simple as possible.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

Scenic wrote:
>>
>> No S1. Went from AF to S2F.
>>
>
> There were S2E's, at least in this part of the world there were.
> Try Googling S2E Tracker.
>

You're mixing designation systems, the S2F was redesignated S-2 in 1962.
Don't drop the dash, it's important.

[Robert Moore]

Scenic wrote
> There were S2E's, at least in this part of the world there were.
> Try Googling S2E Tracker.

Don't know about there, but here they were S-2E not S2E.

Bob Moore
Former S2F-1 and S-2A Pilot (Same aircraft)

[Alan Erskine[_3_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
m...
> Alan Erskine wrote:
>>
>> Oops. ;-) I meant, why wasn't there an S-1? Was it due to the 1960's
>> nomenclature change?
>>
>
> The first purpose-built ASW aircraft was the Grumman AF Guardian, it
> preceded the S designation for such aircraft. The second purpose-built
> ASW aircraft was the Grumman S2F Tracker. It was designated S2F because
> it was the second ASW aircraft built for the Navy by Grumman. With the
> Tri-Service designation system the S2F became the S-2. Why not S-1?
> Probably just to keep things as simple as possible.

I think the AF was already out of service in the USN by the time the
designation system was changed; that might explain the abscense of the
"S-1". Thanks Steven.

[Mike Mackenzie]

"Dave Kearton" > wrote (in
part):

>"Mike Mackenzie" > wrote in message
...
>"Dave Kearton" > wrote (in
>part):
>
>> >You must have seen the footage of the S-2 taking off from Midway (IIRC)
>> >and
>> >flying through an ocean swell.
>> >
>> >
>> >That must have been the only time that a cockpit was cleaner on the
>> >outside
>> >than in. How many times can you do that and get away with it ?
>
>> Do you have a link to that footage - or has it not been digitised?
>
>> --
>> Mike Mackenzie (AVCOM Services)
>
>
>Sorry for the crappy quality, the original footage wasn't good. I'm
>sure I've seen better video in the past, if I dig it up, I'll post it.

Thanks Dave. I had heard of this, but don't recall seeing any film.
This clip certainly is crappy - my first impression was that the
camera went through the wave as well ;-)

--
Mike Mackenzie (AVCOM Services)
Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Remove "XYZ" from the "Reply to" address when responding by email.

[niceguy[_2_]]

Yes but no S-1. AF --> S-2.


"Scenic" > wrote in message
...
> niceguy wrote:
>
>> No S1. Went from AF to S2F.
>
> There were S2E's, at least in this part of the world there were.
> Try Googling S2E Tracker.

[niceguy[_2_]]

Yes!
That clears it up. The "F" was for Grumman. Not for: A, B. C......F. Those
were the days when you could picture the a/c by its designation. If you read
the "F" you could picture the big Grumman tail.

"Alan Erskine" > wrote in message
...
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
> m...
>> Alan Erskine wrote:
>>>
>>> Oops. ;-) I meant, why wasn't there an S-1? Was it due to the 1960's
>>> nomenclature change?
>>>
>>
>> The first purpose-built ASW aircraft was the Grumman AF Guardian, it
>> preceded the S designation for such aircraft. The second purpose-built
>> ASW aircraft was the Grumman S2F Tracker. It was designated S2F because
>> it was the second ASW aircraft built for the Navy by Grumman. With the
>> Tri-Service designation system the S2F became the S-2. Why not S-1?
>> Probably just to keep things as simple as possible.
>
> I think the AF was already out of service in the USN by the time the
> designation system was changed; that might explain the abscense of the
> "S-1". Thanks Steven.
>

[Robert Moore]

"niceguy" wrote

> Yes but no S-1. AF --> S-2.

Nope....AF --> S2F-(1-3) --> S-2(A-G)

The location of the (-) makes a difference.

Bob Moore
S2F-1T NAS Kingsville 1959

[Mike Henley]

"Alan Erskine" > wrote in message
...
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
> m...
>> Alan Erskine wrote:
>>>
>>> Oops. ;-) I meant, why wasn't there an S-1? Was it due to the 1960's
>>> nomenclature change?
>>>
>>
>> The first purpose-built ASW aircraft was the Grumman AF Guardian, it
>> preceded the S designation for such aircraft. The second purpose-built
>> ASW aircraft was the Grumman S2F Tracker. It was designated S2F because
>> it was the second ASW aircraft built for the Navy by Grumman. With the
>> Tri-Service designation system the S2F became the S-2. Why not S-1?
>> Probably just to keep things as simple as possible.
>
> I think the AF was already out of service in the USN by the time the
> designation system was changed; that might explain the abscense of the
> "S-1". Thanks Steven.
The Grumman SF-1 was a version of the Grumman FF-1 fighter built in 1932-33.
It had a 2 man cockpit that was reconfigured to make it a scout plane (SF),
instead of a fighter (FF). After WW2, Grumman built the TB3F for ASW work.
They worked in pairs AF-2W (hunter) and AF-2S (killer) because the equipment
was too large and heavy for 1 aircraft. In 1953 they began replacing the AF
with the S2F (because there had already been an SF). In 1962 when DOD
started renumbering the aircraft to have a common number in all services,
the Navy aircraft stayed with the number the aircraft already had (P2V-5 and
P3V-1 became P-2E and P-3A). If two aircraft had the same number, one was
changed (F3D and F3H became F-10 and F-3; F4D and F4H became F-6 and F-4).

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

Alan Erskine wrote:
>>
>> The first purpose-built ASW aircraft was the Grumman AF Guardian, it
>> preceded the S designation for such aircraft. The second purpose-built
>> ASW aircraft was the Grumman S2F Tracker. It was
>> designated S2F because it was the second ASW aircraft built for the
>> Navy by Grumman. With the Tri-Service designation system the S2F
>> became the S-2. Why not S-1? Probably just to keep things as simple
>> as possible.
>
> I think the AF was already out of service in the USN by the time the
> designation system was changed; that might explain the abscense of the
> "S-1".
>

That sounds like a good reason not to redesignate an aircraft to me, but the
DoD didn't agree. The Convair F2Y Sea Dart was redesignated F-7 under the
Tri-Service designation system, five years after the program was canceled.

[niceguy[_2_]]

AF was the largest single recip-engine a/c ever built.
They worked in pairs because they had different roles.
The 'W' was the 'hunter'' Long range RADAR with large dish.
The 'S' was the 'killer'. Localization equipment and weapons.

"Mike Henley" > wrote in message
g.com...
>
> "Alan Erskine" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
>> m...
>>> Alan Erskine wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oops. ;-) I meant, why wasn't there an S-1? Was it due to the 1960's
>>>> nomenclature change?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The first purpose-built ASW aircraft was the Grumman AF Guardian, it
>>> preceded the S designation for such aircraft. The second purpose-built
>>> ASW aircraft was the Grumman S2F Tracker. It was designated S2F because
>>> it was the second ASW aircraft built for the Navy by Grumman. With the
>>> Tri-Service designation system the S2F became the S-2. Why not S-1?
>>> Probably just to keep things as simple as possible.
>>
>> I think the AF was already out of service in the USN by the time the
>> designation system was changed; that might explain the abscense of the
>> "S-1". Thanks Steven.
> The Grumman SF-1 was a version of the Grumman FF-1 fighter built in
> 1932-33. It had a 2 man cockpit that was reconfigured to make it a scout
> plane (SF), instead of a fighter (FF). After WW2, Grumman built the TB3F
> for ASW work. They worked in pairs AF-2W (hunter) and AF-2S (killer)
> because the equipment was too large and heavy for 1 aircraft. In 1953 they
> began replacing the AF with the S2F (because there had already been an
> SF). In 1962 when DOD started renumbering the aircraft to have a common
> number in all services, the Navy aircraft stayed with the number the
> aircraft already had (P2V-5 and P3V-1 became P-2E and P-3A). If two
> aircraft had the same number, one was changed (F3D and F3H became F-10 and
> F-3; F4D and F4H became F-6 and F-4).
>

[niceguy[_2_]]

I believe there was already an F-2: The Beechcraft F-2 'Expeditor'.



Beechcraft F-2 'Expeditor'

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

niceguy wrote:
>
> AF was the largest single recip-engine a/c ever built.
>

The AF was significantly smaller than the XTB2D.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

niceguy wrote:
>
> I believe there was already an F-2: The Beechcraft F-2 'Expeditor'.
>
>
>
> Beechcraft F-2 'Expeditor'
>

The Beechcraft F-2 Expeditor was a USAAF photoreconnaisance aircraft based
on the civil B18. It was the McDonnell F2H Banshee that became the F-2 in
1962 under the Tri-Service designation system.

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:06:25 -0600, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>Alan Erskine wrote:
>>>
>>> The first purpose-built ASW aircraft was the Grumman AF Guardian, it
>>> preceded the S designation for such aircraft. The second purpose-built
>>> ASW aircraft was the Grumman S2F Tracker. It was
>>> designated S2F because it was the second ASW aircraft built for the
>>> Navy by Grumman. With the Tri-Service designation system the S2F
>>> became the S-2. Why not S-1? Probably just to keep things as simple
>>> as possible.
>>
>> I think the AF was already out of service in the USN by the time the
>> designation system was changed; that might explain the abscense of the
>> "S-1".
>>
>
>That sounds like a good reason not to redesignate an aircraft to me, but the
>DoD didn't agree. The Convair F2Y Sea Dart was redesignated F-7 under the
>Tri-Service designation system, five years after the program was canceled.
>


See
http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/1962redesignations.html#_Note5


"5. The F2Y Sea Dart was included in the redesignation process,
because a single YF2Y-1 had not yet been formally stricken from the
Navy's inventory by June 1962 (when the process of selecting the new
designations for all existing aircraft had already been completed)."
------

Robert

Uncommon Aircraft: http://fire.prohosting.com/hud607/uncommon