Which sport/acro biplane from plans?

[Mr.Twistair]

A guy here who doesn't speak English asked me to investigate which aircraft
he should choose to build from plans.
What he wiches:

- single or 2-seat
- limited aerobatics
- engine M14P or Valter M332/337

I can also assume that he isn't the big-buck one. I know that this question
was discussed here some times earlier, but weold like to accumulate the
opinions.

Thanks in advance for any reliable comments and suggestions.

Fly fun!

Alex
http://twistairclub.narod.ru - Sport Rotorcraft of Russia

[Larry Smith]

"Mr.Twistair" > wrote in message
...
> A guy here who doesn't speak English asked me to investigate which
aircraft
> he should choose to build from plans.
> What he wiches:
>
> - single or 2-seat
> - limited aerobatics
> - engine M14P or Valter M332/337
>
> I can also assume that he isn't the big-buck one. I know that this
question
> was discussed here some times earlier, but weold like to accumulate the
> opinions.
>
> Thanks in advance for any reliable comments and suggestions.
>
> Fly fun!
>
> Alex
> http://twistairclub.narod.ru - Sport Rotorcraft of Russia
>
>

Hatz Skybolt Marquart Charger Starduster Too Acroduster Smith
Miniplane Bowers Bipe Buddy Baby Lakes et cetera Oh, and you can build
a Pietenpol Bipe too.

[David Hill]

Mr.Twistair wrote:
> A guy here who doesn't speak English asked me to investigate which aircraft
> he should choose to build from plans.
> What he wiches:
>
> - single or 2-seat
> - limited aerobatics
> - engine M14P or Valter M332/337<snip>

That's quite a horsepower range - M332 is 115 to 140, M337 is about 210,
M14P is up to 360.

A pair of planes that have always been interesting to me are the DR-107
One Design (single seat) and the DR-109 (two seat)
<http://members.aol.com/danrihn/rac.htm>. They are designed for opposed
cylinder engines, but perhaps they could be adapted to the Valter M337.

Culp Specialties <http://www.culpsspecialties.com> has several designs
built specifically around the M14P.

A design that might suit the Valter M332 engine is Warner Air's Space
Walker II & Revolution II <http://www.warnerair.com/>.

hope this helps,
--
David Hill
david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA

[Mr.Twistair]

"David Hill" > ???????/???????? ? ????????
?????????: ...
>
> That's quite a horsepower range - M332 is 115 to 140, M337 is about 210,
> M14P is up to 360.
>
Thanks, David, though the only biplane here is Culp (lovely aircraft anyway)
:).

It may seem to be strange list of engines but the simple reason is that both
M14P and Walters are still available here for the reasonably low cash. It's
still available to find, say, never-run M332 or M337 for $3-4 K.

Cheers,

Alex

> Culp Specialties <http://www.culpsspecialties.com> has several designs
> built specifically around the M14P.
>
> A design that might suit the Valter M332 engine is Warner Air's Space
> Walker II & Revolution II <http://www.warnerair.com/>.
>
> hope this helps,
> --
> David Hill
> david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
> Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA
>

[Rick Pellicciotti]

There's always the mother of all M14P powered airplanes:

http://www.pittsmodel12.com/

Rick

"Mr.Twistair" > wrote in message
...
>
> "David Hill" > ???????/???????? ? ????????
> ?????????: ...
> >
> > That's quite a horsepower range - M332 is 115 to 140, M337 is about 210,
> > M14P is up to 360.
> >
> Thanks, David, though the only biplane here is Culp (lovely aircraft
anyway)
> :).
>
> It may seem to be strange list of engines but the simple reason is that
both
> M14P and Walters are still available here for the reasonably low cash.
It's
> still available to find, say, never-run M332 or M337 for $3-4 K.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Alex
>
> > Culp Specialties <http://www.culpsspecialties.com> has several designs
> > built specifically around the M14P.
> >
> > A design that might suit the Valter M332 engine is Warner Air's Space
> > Walker II & Revolution II <http://www.warnerair.com/>.
> >
> > hope this helps,
> > --
> > David Hill
> > david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
> > Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA
> >
>
>

[Pete Christensen]

There's only 1 wing.

David Hill > wrote in message
...
> Mr.Twistair wrote:
> > A guy here who doesn't speak English asked me to investigate which
aircraft
> > he should choose to build from plans.
> > What he wiches:
> >
> > - single or 2-seat
> > - limited aerobatics
> > - engine M14P or Valter M332/337<snip>
>
> That's quite a horsepower range - M332 is 115 to 140, M337 is about 210,
> M14P is up to 360.
>
> A pair of planes that have always been interesting to me are the DR-107
> One Design (single seat) and the DR-109 (two seat)
> <http://members.aol.com/danrihn/rac.htm>. They are designed for opposed
> cylinder engines, but perhaps they could be adapted to the Valter M337.
>
> Culp Specialties <http://www.culpsspecialties.com> has several designs
> built specifically around the M14P.
>
> A design that might suit the Valter M332 engine is Warner Air's Space
> Walker II & Revolution II <http://www.warnerair.com/>.
>
> hope this helps,
> --
> David Hill
> david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
> Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA
>

[David Hill]

Mr.Twistair wrote:
> "David Hill" > ???????/???????? ? ????????
> ?????????: ...
>
>>That's quite a horsepower range - M332 is 115 to 140, M337 is about 210,
>>M14P is up to 360.
>>
>
> Thanks, David, though the only biplane here is Culp (lovely aircraft anyway)
> :).

Oops, sorry about that. I missed the word "biplane" in the subject. doh!

Revised suggestion list:

for the M332:
The Pietenpol Aerial from St Croix Aircraft is interesting looking,
should be inexpensive to build.

For the M337:
The Great Lakes Biplane 2T-1A from Great Lakes Plans Co looks like it
fits your criteria.

>
> It may seem to be strange list of engines but the simple reason is that both
> M14P and Walters are still available here for the reasonably low cash. It's
> still available to find, say, never-run M332 or M337 for $3-4 K.

Really? Hmmmmm, I wonder how much shipping one to the US would cost?

--
David Hill
david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA

[Mr.Twistair]

"David Hill" > ???????/???????? ? ????????
?????????: ...

>
> For the M337:
> The Great Lakes Biplane 2T-1A from Great Lakes Plans Co looks like it
> fits your criteria.

I feel it's what that guy is looking for, thanks. Failed to find who sells
the plans, still looking.

>
> >
> > It may seem to be strange list of engines but the simple reason is that
both
> > M14P and Walters are still available here for the reasonably low cash.
It's
> > still available to find, say, never-run M332 or M337 for $3-4 K.
>
> Really? Hmmmmm, I wonder how much shipping one to the US would cost?
>

I don't know exactly but it seems to be something around 6-7 bucks per 1 kg
gross weight if shipped to the other side of the Pond. I shipped abroad
something heavy only once and it was years ago, can define if interesting -
e-mail me.

Cheers,

Alex
http://twistairclub.narod.ru - Sport Rotorcraft of Russia

[Larry Smith]

"Mr.Twistair" > wrote in message
...
>
> "David Hill" > ???????/???????? ? ????????
> ?????????: ...
>
> >
> > For the M337:
> > The Great Lakes Biplane 2T-1A from Great Lakes Plans Co looks like it
> > fits your criteria.
>
> I feel it's what that guy is looking for, thanks. Failed to find who sells
> the plans, still looking.
>

Back in the nineties Buecker Jungmaenner showed up at Lakeland. They were
built from plans and I remember meeting the plans designer, who is now
deceased. Big stocky man. Somebody stole the socks off his prop blades.
Beautiful aeroplane, er, Flugzeug, and wouldn't that M14-P look great on the
nose! You could call it Die Schmetterling, da?

[Dave]

David Hill > wrote in message
> For the M337:
> The Great Lakes Biplane 2T-1A from Great Lakes Plans Co looks like it
> fits your criteria.
>
Where would I find info on this one? Great Lakes Plans Co doesn't
Google for me.

I am currently leaning toward the Pitts 12 but don't really want that
high of a fuel burn rate.

Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65

[KJKimball]

Dave,

The M14P in the model 12 can be operated at 10 or 11 gal per hour just sporting
around locally. On typical flights, the fuel consumption is the same as a 540
lycoming. 170mph cruise at about 9000ft will burn 14.5-15.5 gallons per hour.

Kevin

[Larry Smith]

"Dave" > wrote in message
om...
> David Hill > wrote in message
> > For the M337:
> > The Great Lakes Biplane 2T-1A from Great Lakes Plans Co looks like it
> > fits your criteria.
> >
> Where would I find info on this one? Great Lakes Plans Co doesn't
> Google for me.
>
> I am currently leaning toward the Pitts 12 but don't really want that
> high of a fuel burn rate.
>
> Dave
> N36078 '41 BC-12-65

Well, OK, do a Murphy Renegade Spirit with an O-200 or a Baby Lakes or Buddy
Baby Lakes, and somebody here will take the Tee Crate off your hands.
:)

[Dave]

"Larry Smith" > wrote in message
> Well, OK, do a Murphy Renegade Spirit with an O-200 or a Baby Lakes or Buddy
> Baby Lakes, and somebody here will take the Tee Crate off your hands.
> :)

You get my Taylorcraft when you pry it from my cold dead hands....

I just want something a little faster that looks neat. Needs at least
2 seats too. 2 wings and a round engine makes the Pitts 12 look
really neat.

Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65

[Larry Smith]

"Dave" > wrote in message
om...
> "Larry Smith" > wrote in message
> > Well, OK, do a Murphy Renegade Spirit with an O-200 or a Baby Lakes or
Buddy
> > Baby Lakes, and somebody here will take the Tee Crate off your hands.
> > :)
>
> You get my Taylorcraft when you pry it from my cold dead hands....

Teehhheeee. You can always tell a Taylorcrafter by their loyalty to the
wonderful little airplane. Yesterday I flew a young eagle and an old salt
from WWII in my T-Craft. Sky was blue, ol' Sol was out in full splendor,
and you could see for a good 30 or 40 miles, which is a phenomenon for this
muggy part of the country.

For you people who haven't flown the spritely Taylorcraft, you just THINK
you've flown an airplane.

>
> I just want something a little faster that looks neat. Needs at least
> 2 seats too. 2 wings and a round engine makes the Pitts 12 look
> really neat.

Go for it then. Bring it over for a flyby when finished. We like the
sound of round engines hereabouts.

>
> Dave
> N36078 '41 BC-12-65

[David Hill]

Mr.Twistair wrote:
> "David Hill" > ???????/???????? ? ????????
> ?????????: ...
>
>
>>For the M337:
>>The Great Lakes Biplane 2T-1A from Great Lakes Plans Co looks like it
>>fits your criteria.
>
>
> I feel it's what that guy is looking for, thanks. Failed to find who sells
> the plans, still looking.

AND

Dave wrote:
> David Hill > wrote in message
>
>>For the M337:
>>The Great Lakes Biplane 2T-1A from Great Lakes Plans Co looks like it
>>fits your criteria.
>>
>
> Where would I find info on this one? Great Lakes Plans Co doesn't
> Google for me.

I pulled the info off the Aerocrafter CD version 8.0 (2001?). The
contact info provided for the Great Lakes Biplane 2T-1A is:

Great Lakes Plans Co.
1900 Millview Lane
Couer D'Alene, ID 83814-7622
Phone: 800-228-7794
Fax: 208-664-8540
Web page: none
Email address: none

also, when I did a google search I found
<http://www.steenaero.com/articles_detail.cfm?ArticleID=15>, from which
I quote:
" Plans for the Great Lakes Trainer had been available until February,
1972, when Harvey Swack sold the rights to the 2T-1A to the current
Great Lakes Aircraft Company. More than 250 sets of plans had been sold.
However, the new company, headed by Douglas L. Champlin of Enid,
Oklahoma, plans to build complete airplanes, plus supply certified
components for restorers and homebuilders, and thus cannot continue to
offer a plans service. "

Makes it sound like plans are not available, but that is confusing since
EAA Aerocrafter listed it as a "plans available" homebuilt.

Running a phone number search in google turns up:
Hern Iron Works <http://www.hernironworks.com/>, and
Greyhound Pets Inc. <http://www.greyhoundpetsinc.org/>

neither of which mention anything about Great Lakes biplanes.

Does anyone else here have better information?
--
David Hill
david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA

[David Hill]

David Hill wrote:
> Mr.Twistair wrote:
>
>> "David Hill" > ???????/???????? ? ????????
>> ?????????: ...
>>
>>
>>> For the M337:
>>> The Great Lakes Biplane 2T-1A from Great Lakes Plans Co looks like it
>>> fits your criteria.
>>
>>
>>
>> I feel it's what that guy is looking for, thanks. Failed to find who
>> sells
>> the plans, still looking.
>
>
> AND
>
> Dave wrote:
> > David Hill > wrote in message
> >
> >>For the M337:
> >>The Great Lakes Biplane 2T-1A from Great Lakes Plans Co looks like it
> >>fits your criteria.
> >>
> >
> > Where would I find info on this one? Great Lakes Plans Co doesn't
> > Google for me.

Going back to the Aerocrafter CD I found another Great Lakes biplane:

Great Lakes Sport Trainer
Great Airplanes Inc.
PO Box 615
Needham, MA 02494
Phone: 781-444-5480
Fax: 781-444-5480
Web Page: www.greatairplanes.com
Email Address: greatairplanes at aolBUTREMOVETHISFIRST.com

The website makes it sound like Harvey Swack is still providing plans.
--
David Hill
david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA