wristbands for air sickness, do they work ?

[Jack[_11_]]

I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.

I have tried:
- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
still not good enough.

Today in a lesson we had very good conditions, for the first time I was able
to really play and experiment with the glider without stress or time
constraints, various banks in thermals, near stalls, trim various speeds
etc... I was able to get back to thermals to go back to 4-5000ft, I had all
these thing I was planning on learning/improving and today was the perfect
day for it but after 30 min the instructor tried to show me how to thermal
with a high bank and in 2 spins I started to feel bad, I took the controls
again but 1 minute later I was sweating, my focus and concentration were
gone. We had to waste 5000ft gliding straight down with brakes out.

My disapointment was huge, I was upset with myself and questioned if I
should have stayed and fought it but with hindsight I feel we did the right
thing to land.

I understand that I will probably get used to it but from a learning point
of view only doing short flights will slow down my progression and from a
financial point of view, well a 15min or 1 hour flight cost the same...

I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent motion
sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually lower
the intensity until I am used to it.

Now the question, "do they really work ?" they are not cheap, about the cost
of 4 x 3000ft tow so I would appreciate if someone who used them can
comment.

Cheers
Jack

[Willy VINKEN]

No Jack, they don't.
Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they might.
Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent motion
sickness. Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget. The worst
situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
Keep trying, and things will improve.
Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
NASA even experimented with scopolamine. Those are not trademarks,
but international nonproprietary chemical names. Trademarks are
different in different countries.
The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition. Your
instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration isn't
dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. After all, this is
what basic learning to fly is all about.
Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face, and
concentrate on flying. And believe me, half an hour in the air,
working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't improve
your skills.

Willy VINKEN
Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
And having seen a lot of motion sickness...


On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:10:01 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:

>I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>
>I have tried:
>- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
>- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
>- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
>still not good enough.
>
>Today in a lesson we had very good conditions, for the first time I was able
>to really play and experiment with the glider without stress or time
>constraints, various banks in thermals, near stalls, trim various speeds
>etc... I was able to get back to thermals to go back to 4-5000ft, I had all
>these thing I was planning on learning/improving and today was the perfect
>day for it but after 30 min the instructor tried to show me how to thermal
>with a high bank and in 2 spins I started to feel bad, I took the controls
>again but 1 minute later I was sweating, my focus and concentration were
>gone. We had to waste 5000ft gliding straight down with brakes out.
>
>My disapointment was huge, I was upset with myself and questioned if I
>should have stayed and fought it but with hindsight I feel we did the right
>thing to land.
>
>I understand that I will probably get used to it but from a learning point
>of view only doing short flights will slow down my progression and from a
>financial point of view, well a 15min or 1 hour flight cost the same...
>
>I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
>electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent motion
>sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
>adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually lower
>the intensity until I am used to it.
>
>Now the question, "do they really work ?" they are not cheap, about the cost
>of 4 x 3000ft tow so I would appreciate if someone who used them can
>comment.
>
>Cheers
>Jack
>
>
>

[Jack[_11_]]

Thanks for the answer Willy,
That is bad luck that they don't work.
Since pressing lightly on my wrist between the tendon and the edna instantly
eases the sickness I though there may be some chance that they work but well
I'll have to try medication.
Another student told me that some tablets called "kwals" or "Qualls" not
sure of the spelling work for him and he does not feel side effects.
As you pointed out it seems that all the drugs seem to have different trade
names in each coutry, all the reccomended drugs I read about on the net
don't seem available here in Australia.

Thanks again
Jack

"Willy VINKEN" > wrote in message
...
> No Jack, they don't.
> Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they might.
> Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent motion
> sickness. Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget. The worst
> situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
> Keep trying, and things will improve.
> Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
> NASA even experimented with scopolamine. Those are not trademarks,
> but international nonproprietary chemical names. Trademarks are
> different in different countries.
> The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
> But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition. Your
> instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration isn't
> dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. After all, this is
> what basic learning to fly is all about.
> Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face, and
> concentrate on flying. And believe me, half an hour in the air,
> working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
> Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't improve
> your skills.
>
> Willy VINKEN
> Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
> And having seen a lot of motion sickness...
>
>
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:10:01 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>
>>I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>>
>>I have tried:
>>- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
>>- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
>>- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
>>still not good enough.
>>
>>Today in a lesson we had very good conditions, for the first time I was
>>able
>>to really play and experiment with the glider without stress or time
>>constraints, various banks in thermals, near stalls, trim various speeds
>>etc... I was able to get back to thermals to go back to 4-5000ft, I had
>>all
>>these thing I was planning on learning/improving and today was the perfect
>>day for it but after 30 min the instructor tried to show me how to thermal
>>with a high bank and in 2 spins I started to feel bad, I took the controls
>>again but 1 minute later I was sweating, my focus and concentration were
>>gone. We had to waste 5000ft gliding straight down with brakes out.
>>
>>My disapointment was huge, I was upset with myself and questioned if I
>>should have stayed and fought it but with hindsight I feel we did the
>>right
>>thing to land.
>>
>>I understand that I will probably get used to it but from a learning point
>>of view only doing short flights will slow down my progression and from a
>>financial point of view, well a 15min or 1 hour flight cost the same...
>>
>>I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
>>electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent motion
>>sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
>>adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually lower
>>the intensity until I am used to it.
>>
>>Now the question, "do they really work ?" they are not cheap, about the
>>cost
>>of 4 x 3000ft tow so I would appreciate if someone who used them can
>>comment.
>>
>>Cheers
>>Jack
>>
>>
>>

[Willy VINKEN]

Don't rely on the Internet for drugs, Jack. At best they are
expensive, often fakes, and sometimes plain dangerous.
Ask your doctor.

Pressing your wrist works momentarily, because you focus your
attention on something else, and you have the anticipation of a quick
cure. When I plan to take aspirin for a headache, I instantly feel
better too. But I still have to take it ;-) .

Motion sickness is a natural phenomenon: basically, there is some
discordance between what you eyes see and how your inner ear tells
your brain you are moving. This can result in what we call 'motion
sickness'.
Ask your instructor to keep you alert with flying, with no room left
for you to analyse how you feel.

Have fun.

Willy


On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 21:12:22 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:

>Thanks for the answer Willy,
>That is bad luck that they don't work.
>Since pressing lightly on my wrist between the tendon and the edna instantly
>eases the sickness I though there may be some chance that they work but well
>I'll have to try medication.
>Another student told me that some tablets called "kwals" or "Qualls" not
>sure of the spelling work for him and he does not feel side effects.
>As you pointed out it seems that all the drugs seem to have different trade
>names in each coutry, all the reccomended drugs I read about on the net
>don't seem available here in Australia.
>
>Thanks again
>Jack
>
>"Willy VINKEN" > wrote in message
...
>> No Jack, they don't.
>> Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they might.
>> Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent motion
>> sickness. Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget. The worst
>> situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
>> Keep trying, and things will improve.
>> Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
>> NASA even experimented with scopolamine. Those are not trademarks,
>> but international nonproprietary chemical names. Trademarks are
>> different in different countries.
>> The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
>> But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition. Your
>> instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration isn't
>> dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. After all, this is
>> what basic learning to fly is all about.
>> Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face, and
>> concentrate on flying. And believe me, half an hour in the air,
>> working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
>> Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't improve
>> your skills.
>>
>> Willy VINKEN
>> Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
>> And having seen a lot of motion sickness...
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:10:01 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>>
>>>I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>>>
>>>I have tried:
>>>- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
>>>- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
>>>- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
>>>still not good enough.
>>>
>>>Today in a lesson we had very good conditions, for the first time I was
>>>able
>>>to really play and experiment with the glider without stress or time
>>>constraints, various banks in thermals, near stalls, trim various speeds
>>>etc... I was able to get back to thermals to go back to 4-5000ft, I had
>>>all
>>>these thing I was planning on learning/improving and today was the perfect
>>>day for it but after 30 min the instructor tried to show me how to thermal
>>>with a high bank and in 2 spins I started to feel bad, I took the controls
>>>again but 1 minute later I was sweating, my focus and concentration were
>>>gone. We had to waste 5000ft gliding straight down with brakes out.
>>>
>>>My disapointment was huge, I was upset with myself and questioned if I
>>>should have stayed and fought it but with hindsight I feel we did the
>>>right
>>>thing to land.
>>>
>>>I understand that I will probably get used to it but from a learning point
>>>of view only doing short flights will slow down my progression and from a
>>>financial point of view, well a 15min or 1 hour flight cost the same...
>>>
>>>I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
>>>electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent motion
>>>sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
>>>adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually lower
>>>the intensity until I am used to it.
>>>
>>>Now the question, "do they really work ?" they are not cheap, about the
>>>cost
>>>of 4 x 3000ft tow so I would appreciate if someone who used them can
>>>comment.
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>Jack
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

[Jack[_11_]]

I mean drugs that are mentioned on the net on gliding sites, I would
certainly not buy any drug outside of a pharmacy counter.

So you think that applying pressure on the wrists would only have some sort
of placebo effect, I will do a little bit of experimentation.

Thanks


"Willy VINKEN" > wrote in message
...
> Don't rely on the Internet for drugs, Jack. At best they are
> expensive, often fakes, and sometimes plain dangerous.
> Ask your doctor.
>
> Pressing your wrist works momentarily, because you focus your
> attention on something else, and you have the anticipation of a quick
> cure. When I plan to take aspirin for a headache, I instantly feel
> better too. But I still have to take it ;-) .
>
> Motion sickness is a natural phenomenon: basically, there is some
> discordance between what you eyes see and how your inner ear tells
> your brain you are moving. This can result in what we call 'motion
> sickness'.
> Ask your instructor to keep you alert with flying, with no room left
> for you to analyse how you feel.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Willy
>
>
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 21:12:22 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>
>>Thanks for the answer Willy,
>>That is bad luck that they don't work.
>>Since pressing lightly on my wrist between the tendon and the edna
>>instantly
>>eases the sickness I though there may be some chance that they work but
>>well
>>I'll have to try medication.
>>Another student told me that some tablets called "kwals" or "Qualls" not
>>sure of the spelling work for him and he does not feel side effects.
>>As you pointed out it seems that all the drugs seem to have different
>>trade
>>names in each coutry, all the reccomended drugs I read about on the net
>>don't seem available here in Australia.
>>
>>Thanks again
>>Jack
>>
>>"Willy VINKEN" > wrote in message
...
>>> No Jack, they don't.
>>> Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they might.
>>> Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent motion
>>> sickness. Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget. The worst
>>> situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
>>> Keep trying, and things will improve.
>>> Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
>>> NASA even experimented with scopolamine. Those are not trademarks,
>>> but international nonproprietary chemical names. Trademarks are
>>> different in different countries.
>>> The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
>>> But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition. Your
>>> instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration isn't
>>> dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. After all, this is
>>> what basic learning to fly is all about.
>>> Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face, and
>>> concentrate on flying. And believe me, half an hour in the air,
>>> working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
>>> Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't improve
>>> your skills.
>>>
>>> Willy VINKEN
>>> Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
>>> And having seen a lot of motion sickness...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:10:01 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>>>>
>>>>I have tried:
>>>>- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
>>>>- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
>>>>- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
>>>>still not good enough.
>>>>
>>>>Today in a lesson we had very good conditions, for the first time I was
>>>>able
>>>>to really play and experiment with the glider without stress or time
>>>>constraints, various banks in thermals, near stalls, trim various speeds
>>>>etc... I was able to get back to thermals to go back to 4-5000ft, I had
>>>>all
>>>>these thing I was planning on learning/improving and today was the
>>>>perfect
>>>>day for it but after 30 min the instructor tried to show me how to
>>>>thermal
>>>>with a high bank and in 2 spins I started to feel bad, I took the
>>>>controls
>>>>again but 1 minute later I was sweating, my focus and concentration were
>>>>gone. We had to waste 5000ft gliding straight down with brakes out.
>>>>
>>>>My disapointment was huge, I was upset with myself and questioned if I
>>>>should have stayed and fought it but with hindsight I feel we did the
>>>>right
>>>>thing to land.
>>>>
>>>>I understand that I will probably get used to it but from a learning
>>>>point
>>>>of view only doing short flights will slow down my progression and from
>>>>a
>>>>financial point of view, well a 15min or 1 hour flight cost the same...
>>>>
>>>>I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
>>>>electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent
>>>>motion
>>>>sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
>>>>adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually
>>>>lower
>>>>the intensity until I am used to it.
>>>>
>>>>Now the question, "do they really work ?" they are not cheap, about the
>>>>cost
>>>>of 4 x 3000ft tow so I would appreciate if someone who used them can
>>>>comment.
>>>>
>>>>Cheers
>>>>Jack
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>

[Bruce]

I am fortunate enough to just about never get motion sick.

However - we had a student who suffers from severe motion sickness, to
the point of when he flew it was a case of how long before he is sick,
not whether. He tried various devices and medications, none of which
worked well enough - either still getting nausea, or too many side effects.

Persistence and a high tolerance from the instructors worked and he is
competent a solo pilot. If it gets turbulent he still frequently comes
down needing a new shirt. He appears to have accepted the cost of
occasionally throwing up is fair price for the pleasure. He bought a 50%
share in a single but seldom flies it - preferring the more stable club
two seaters.

Most effective for him was exposure (lots of 10-20 minute flights off
the winch, so really not expensive) and learning to look at the horison
when he gets queasy. Keeping the flights short meant he became
conditioned to not being sick in the cockpit. As this has progressed he
has now managed some flights over three hours.

So the caption is perseverance pays.

Cheers
Bruce

Willy VINKEN wrote:
> Don't rely on the Internet for drugs, Jack. At best they are
> expensive, often fakes, and sometimes plain dangerous.
> Ask your doctor.
>
> Pressing your wrist works momentarily, because you focus your
> attention on something else, and you have the anticipation of a quick
> cure. When I plan to take aspirin for a headache, I instantly feel
> better too. But I still have to take it ;-) .
>
> Motion sickness is a natural phenomenon: basically, there is some
> discordance between what you eyes see and how your inner ear tells
> your brain you are moving. This can result in what we call 'motion
> sickness'.
> Ask your instructor to keep you alert with flying, with no room left
> for you to analyse how you feel.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Willy
>
>
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 21:12:22 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the answer Willy,
>> That is bad luck that they don't work.
>> Since pressing lightly on my wrist between the tendon and the edna instantly
>> eases the sickness I though there may be some chance that they work but well
>> I'll have to try medication.
>> Another student told me that some tablets called "kwals" or "Qualls" not
>> sure of the spelling work for him and he does not feel side effects.
>> As you pointed out it seems that all the drugs seem to have different trade
>> names in each coutry, all the reccomended drugs I read about on the net
>> don't seem available here in Australia.
>>
>> Thanks again
>> Jack
>>
>> "Willy VINKEN" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> No Jack, they don't.
>>> Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they might.
>>> Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent motion
>>> sickness. Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget. The worst
>>> situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
>>> Keep trying, and things will improve.
>>> Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
>>> NASA even experimented with scopolamine. Those are not trademarks,
>>> but international nonproprietary chemical names. Trademarks are
>>> different in different countries.
>>> The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
>>> But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition. Your
>>> instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration isn't
>>> dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. After all, this is
>>> what basic learning to fly is all about.
>>> Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face, and
>>> concentrate on flying. And believe me, half an hour in the air,
>>> working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
>>> Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't improve
>>> your skills.
>>>
>>> Willy VINKEN
>>> Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
>>> And having seen a lot of motion sickness...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:10:01 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>>>>
>>>> I have tried:
>>>> - Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
>>>> - Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
>>>> - Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
>>>> still not good enough.
>>>>
>>>> Today in a lesson we had very good conditions, for the first time I was
>>>> able
>>>> to really play and experiment with the glider without stress or time
>>>> constraints, various banks in thermals, near stalls, trim various speeds
>>>> etc... I was able to get back to thermals to go back to 4-5000ft, I had
>>>> all
>>>> these thing I was planning on learning/improving and today was the perfect
>>>> day for it but after 30 min the instructor tried to show me how to thermal
>>>> with a high bank and in 2 spins I started to feel bad, I took the controls
>>>> again but 1 minute later I was sweating, my focus and concentration were
>>>> gone. We had to waste 5000ft gliding straight down with brakes out.
>>>>
>>>> My disapointment was huge, I was upset with myself and questioned if I
>>>> should have stayed and fought it but with hindsight I feel we did the
>>>> right
>>>> thing to land.
>>>>
>>>> I understand that I will probably get used to it but from a learning point
>>>> of view only doing short flights will slow down my progression and from a
>>>> financial point of view, well a 15min or 1 hour flight cost the same...
>>>>
>>>> I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
>>>> electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent motion
>>>> sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
>>>> adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually lower
>>>> the intensity until I am used to it.
>>>>
>>>> Now the question, "do they really work ?" they are not cheap, about the
>>>> cost
>>>> of 4 x 3000ft tow so I would appreciate if someone who used them can
>>>> comment.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Jack
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

[Willy VINKEN]

Not exactly 'placebo effect' (although every pharmacologically active
drug has some), but rather 'momentary diversion of attention'.
And since you can't do that for a long time, this solution won't last.
Better focus your attention on more interesting aspects of flying
that keep you busy. That's your instructor's job.

Ask your pharmacist about motion sickness drugs that contain real
active chemicals, and find out how you feel with them. First try them
without flying or driving. Then don't forget to tell your instructor.

Yes, you can!

Willy


On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 22:33:52 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:

>I mean drugs that are mentioned on the net on gliding sites, I would
>certainly not buy any drug outside of a pharmacy counter.
>
>So you think that applying pressure on the wrists would only have some sort
>of placebo effect, I will do a little bit of experimentation.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>"Willy VINKEN" > wrote in message
...
>> Don't rely on the Internet for drugs, Jack. At best they are
>> expensive, often fakes, and sometimes plain dangerous.
>> Ask your doctor.
>>
>> Pressing your wrist works momentarily, because you focus your
>> attention on something else, and you have the anticipation of a quick
>> cure. When I plan to take aspirin for a headache, I instantly feel
>> better too. But I still have to take it ;-) .
>>
>> Motion sickness is a natural phenomenon: basically, there is some
>> discordance between what you eyes see and how your inner ear tells
>> your brain you are moving. This can result in what we call 'motion
>> sickness'.
>> Ask your instructor to keep you alert with flying, with no room left
>> for you to analyse how you feel.
>>
>> Have fun.
>>
>> Willy
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 21:12:22 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks for the answer Willy,
>>>That is bad luck that they don't work.
>>>Since pressing lightly on my wrist between the tendon and the edna
>>>instantly
>>>eases the sickness I though there may be some chance that they work but
>>>well
>>>I'll have to try medication.
>>>Another student told me that some tablets called "kwals" or "Qualls" not
>>>sure of the spelling work for him and he does not feel side effects.
>>>As you pointed out it seems that all the drugs seem to have different
>>>trade
>>>names in each coutry, all the reccomended drugs I read about on the net
>>>don't seem available here in Australia.
>>>
>>>Thanks again
>>>Jack
>>>
>>>"Willy VINKEN" > wrote in message
...
>>>> No Jack, they don't.
>>>> Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they might.
>>>> Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent motion
>>>> sickness. Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget. The worst
>>>> situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
>>>> Keep trying, and things will improve.
>>>> Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
>>>> NASA even experimented with scopolamine. Those are not trademarks,
>>>> but international nonproprietary chemical names. Trademarks are
>>>> different in different countries.
>>>> The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
>>>> But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition. Your
>>>> instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration isn't
>>>> dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. After all, this is
>>>> what basic learning to fly is all about.
>>>> Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face, and
>>>> concentrate on flying. And believe me, half an hour in the air,
>>>> working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
>>>> Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't improve
>>>> your skills.
>>>>
>>>> Willy VINKEN
>>>> Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
>>>> And having seen a lot of motion sickness...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:10:01 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have tried:
>>>>>- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
>>>>>- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
>>>>>- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
>>>>>still not good enough.
>>>>>
>>>>>Today in a lesson we had very good conditions, for the first time I was
>>>>>able
>>>>>to really play and experiment with the glider without stress or time
>>>>>constraints, various banks in thermals, near stalls, trim various speeds
>>>>>etc... I was able to get back to thermals to go back to 4-5000ft, I had
>>>>>all
>>>>>these thing I was planning on learning/improving and today was the
>>>>>perfect
>>>>>day for it but after 30 min the instructor tried to show me how to
>>>>>thermal
>>>>>with a high bank and in 2 spins I started to feel bad, I took the
>>>>>controls
>>>>>again but 1 minute later I was sweating, my focus and concentration were
>>>>>gone. We had to waste 5000ft gliding straight down with brakes out.
>>>>>
>>>>>My disapointment was huge, I was upset with myself and questioned if I
>>>>>should have stayed and fought it but with hindsight I feel we did the
>>>>>right
>>>>>thing to land.
>>>>>
>>>>>I understand that I will probably get used to it but from a learning
>>>>>point
>>>>>of view only doing short flights will slow down my progression and from
>>>>>a
>>>>>financial point of view, well a 15min or 1 hour flight cost the same...
>>>>>
>>>>>I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
>>>>>electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent
>>>>>motion
>>>>>sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
>>>>>adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually
>>>>>lower
>>>>>the intensity until I am used to it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now the question, "do they really work ?" they are not cheap, about the
>>>>>cost
>>>>>of 4 x 3000ft tow so I would appreciate if someone who used them can
>>>>>comment.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers
>>>>>Jack
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>

[Derek Copeland[_2_]]

Jack,

The anti-sickness pills are called 'Kwells', at least in the UK. I used
to take them for navigating in a rally cars, which is almost guaranteed to
make you throw up, especially on night rallies. The only side effect I
noticed was a slight dryness of the mouth, but perhaps you should take
medical advice on their suitability for flying.

I to had a slight problem with air-sickness in my early gliding career.
This didn't show up too much during my training, but became a problem
when I started to make longer soaring flights after going solo. Several
times I had to dive back to the airfield with full airbrakes out so that
at least I could be sick on the ground. However this passed with growing
familiarity with being in the air. I still sometimes feel a bit queasy on
rough blue thermal days flying with less than smooth student pilots (I
have since qualified as an instructor).

The best tips I can give are not to get too tense and to watch the horizon
as much as possible; this encourages a good lookout anyway.

The wrist band might have a psychological or placebo effect. If you pay a
lot of money for it and believe it will work, then it probably will!

Derek Copeland

At 10:12 09 November 2008, Jack wrote:
>Thanks for the answer Willy,
>That is bad luck that they don't work.
>Since pressing lightly on my wrist between the tendon and the edna
>instantly
>eases the sickness I though there may be some chance that they work but
>well
>I'll have to try medication.
>Another student told me that some tablets called "kwals" or "Qualls"
not
>sure of the spelling work for him and he does not feel side effects.
>As you pointed out it seems that all the drugs seem to have different
>trade
>names in each coutry, all the reccomended drugs I read about on the net
>don't seem available here in Australia.
>
>Thanks again
>Jack
>

[[email protected]]

On Nov 9, 6:09*am, Willy VINKEN > wrote:
> Not exactly 'placebo effect' (although every pharmacologically active
> drug has some), but rather 'momentary diversion of attention'. *
> And since you can't do that for a long time, this solution won't last.
> Better focus your attention on more interesting aspects of flying
> that keep you busy. *That's your instructor's job.
>
> Ask your pharmacist about motion sickness drugs that contain real
> active chemicals, and find out how you feel with them. *First try them
> without flying or driving. *Then don't forget to tell your instructor.
>
> Yes, you can!
>
> Willy
>
>
>
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 22:33:52 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
> >I mean drugs that are mentioned on the net on gliding sites, I would
> >certainly not buy any drug outside of a pharmacy counter.
>
> >So you think that applying pressure on the wrists would only have some sort
> >of placebo effect, I will do a little bit of experimentation.
>
> >Thanks
>
> >"Willy VINKEN" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Don't rely on the Internet for drugs, Jack. *At best they are
> >> expensive, often fakes, and sometimes plain dangerous.
> >> Ask your doctor.
>
> >> Pressing your wrist works momentarily, because you focus your
> >> attention on something else, and you have the anticipation of a quick
> >> cure. *When I plan to take aspirin for a headache, I instantly feel
> >> better too. *But I still have to take it *;-) *.
>
> >> Motion sickness is a natural phenomenon: *basically, there is some
> >> discordance between what you eyes see and how your inner ear tells
> >> your brain you are moving. *This can result in what we call 'motion
> >> sickness'.
> >> Ask your instructor to keep you alert with flying, with no room left
> >> for you to analyse how you feel.
>
> >> Have fun.
>
> >> Willy
>
> >> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 21:12:22 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>
> >>>Thanks for the answer Willy,
> >>>That is bad luck that they don't work.
> >>>Since pressing lightly on my wrist between the tendon and the edna
> >>>instantly
> >>>eases the sickness I though there may be some chance that they work but
> >>>well
> >>>I'll have to try medication.
> >>>Another student told me that some tablets called "kwals" or "Qualls" not
> >>>sure of the spelling work for him and he does not feel side effects.
> >>>As you pointed out it seems that all the drugs seem to have different
> >>>trade
> >>>names in each coutry, all the reccomended drugs I read about on the net
> >>>don't seem available here in Australia.
>
> >>>Thanks again
> >>>Jack
>
> >>>"Willy VINKEN" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>> No Jack, they don't.
> >>>> Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they might.
> >>>> Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent motion
> >>>> sickness. *Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget. *The worst
> >>>> situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
> >>>> Keep trying, and things will improve.
> >>>> Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
> >>>> NASA even experimented with scopolamine. *Those are not trademarks,
> >>>> but international nonproprietary chemical names. *Trademarks are
> >>>> different in different countries.
> >>>> The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
> >>>> But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition. *Your
> >>>> instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration isn't
> >>>> dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. *After all, this is
> >>>> what basic learning to fly is all about.
> >>>> Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face, and
> >>>> concentrate on flying. *And believe me, half an hour in the air,
> >>>> working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
> >>>> Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't improve
> >>>> your skills.
>
> >>>> Willy VINKEN
> >>>> Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
> >>>> And having seen a lot of motion sickness...
>
> >>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:10:01 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>
> >>>>>I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>
> >>>>>I have tried:
> >>>>>- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
> >>>>>- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.

[glider]

Jack wrote:
> .... Since pressing lightly on my wrist between the tendon and the edna instantly
> eases the sickness

Then I *really* think that you should give the wrist band a try.

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

Philip Wills, one of the most famous glider pilots of all time, had motion
sickness at the start of his gliding career, but he got over it and you
can, too.

It will improve when your brain accepts that in a turn you are moving
across stationary ground and it no longer looks like you are stationary
and the world is tilted and moving under you.

Look at the horizon and stare at successive points along the horizon as
you turn. Don't sweep you eyes along it in a steady progression.

At 13:31 09 November 2008, wrote:
>On Nov 9, 6:09=A0am, Willy VINKEN wrote:
>> Not exactly 'placebo effect' (although every pharmacologically
active
>> drug has some), but rather 'momentary diversion of attention'. =A0
>> And since you can't do that for a long time, this solution won't
last.
>> Better focus your attention on more interesting aspects of flying
>> that keep you busy. =A0That's your instructor's job.
>>
>> Ask your pharmacist about motion sickness drugs that contain real
>> active chemicals, and find out how you feel with them. =A0First try
them
>> without flying or driving. =A0Then don't forget to tell your
instructor.
>>
>> Yes, you can!
>>
>> Willy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 22:33:52 +1100, "Jack" wrote:
>> >I mean drugs that are mentioned on the net on gliding sites, I would
>> >certainly not buy any drug outside of a pharmacy counter.
>>
>> >So you think that applying pressure on the wrists would only have
some
>s=
>ort
>> >of placebo effect, I will do a little bit of experimentation.
>>
>> >Thanks
>>
>> >"Willy VINKEN" wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> Don't rely on the Internet for drugs, Jack. =A0At best they are
>> >> expensive, often fakes, and sometimes plain dangerous.
>> >> Ask your doctor.
>>
>> >> Pressing your wrist works momentarily, because you focus your
>> >> attention on something else, and you have the anticipation of a
quick
>> >> cure. =A0When I plan to take aspirin for a headache, I instantly
feel
>> >> better too. =A0But I still have to take it =A0;-) =A0.
>>
>> >> Motion sickness is a natural phenomenon: =A0basically, there is
some
>> >> discordance between what you eyes see and how your inner ear tells
>> >> your brain you are moving. =A0This can result in what we call
'motion
>> >> sickness'.
>> >> Ask your instructor to keep you alert with flying, with no room
left
>> >> for you to analyse how you feel.
>>
>> >> Have fun.
>>
>> >> Willy
>>
>> >> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 21:12:22 +1100, "Jack" wrote:
>>
>> >>>Thanks for the answer Willy,
>> >>>That is bad luck that they don't work.
>> >>>Since pressing lightly on my wrist between the tendon and the edna
>> >>>instantly
>> >>>eases the sickness I though there may be some chance that they work
>bu=
>t
>> >>>well
>> >>>I'll have to try medication.
>> >>>Another student told me that some tablets called "kwals" or
"Qualls"
>n=
>ot
>> >>>sure of the spelling work for him and he does not feel side
effects.
>> >>>As you pointed out it seems that all the drugs seem to have
different
>> >>>trade
>> >>>names in each coutry, all the reccomended drugs I read about on the
>ne=
>t
>> >>>don't seem available here in Australia.
>>
>> >>>Thanks again
>> >>>Jack
>>
>> >>>"Willy VINKEN" wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>>> No Jack, they don't.
>> >>>> Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they
>might.
>> >>>> Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent
motion
>> >>>> sickness. =A0Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget.
=A0The
>w=
>orst
>> >>>> situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
>> >>>> Keep trying, and things will improve.
>> >>>> Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
>> >>>> NASA even experimented with scopolamine. =A0Those are not
>trademarks=
>,
>> >>>> but international nonproprietary chemical names. =A0Trademarks
are
>> >>>> different in different countries.
>> >>>> The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
>> >>>> But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition.
>=A0Your
>> >>>> instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration
>isn't
>> >>>> dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. =A0After all,
this
>=
>is
>> >>>> what basic learning to fly is all about.
>> >>>> Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face,
and
>> >>>> concentrate on flying. =A0And believe me, half an hour in the
air,
>> >>>> working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
>> >>>> Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't
>improv=
>e
>> >>>> your skills.
>>
>> >>>> Willy VINKEN
>> >>>> Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
>> >>>> And having seen a lot of motion sickness...
>>
>> >>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:10:01 +1100, "Jack" wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>>
>> >>>>>I have tried:
>> >>>>>- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
>> >>>>>- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and
>concentratio=
>n.
>> >>>>>- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it
helps
>=
>but
>> >>>>>still not good enough.
>>
>> >>>>>Today in a lesson we had very good conditions, for the first time
I
>=
>was
>> >>>>>able
>> >>>>>to really play and experiment with the glider without stress or
>time
>> >>>>>constraints, various banks in thermals, near stalls, trim various
>sp=
>eeds
>> >>>>>etc... I was able to get back to thermals to go back to 4-5000ft,
I
>=
>had
>> >>>>>all
>> >>>>>these thing I was planning on learning/improving and today was
the
>> >>>>>perfect
>> >>>>>day for it but after 30 min the instructor tried to show me how
to
>> >>>>>thermal
>> >>>>>with a high bank and in 2 spins I started to feel bad, I took the
>> >>>>>controls
>> >>>>>again but 1 minute later I was sweating, my focus and
concentration
>=
>were
>> >>>>>gone. We had to waste 5000ft gliding straight down with brakes
out.
>>
>> >>>>>My disapointment was huge, I was upset with myself and questioned
>if=
> I
>> >>>>>should have stayed and fought it but with hindsight I feel we did
>th=
>e
>> >>>>>right
>> >>>>>thing to land.
>>
>> >>>>>I understand that I will probably get used to it but from a
>learning
>> >>>>>point
>> >>>>>of view only doing short flights will slow down my progression
and
>f=
>rom
>> >>>>>a
>> >>>>>financial point of view, well a 15min or 1 hour flight cost the
>same=
>....
>>
>> >>>>>I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch,
they
>> >>>>>electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to
prevent
>> >>>>>motion
>> >>>>>sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the
intensity
>=
>is
>> >>>>>adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can
>gradually
>> >>>>>lower
>> >>>>>the intensity until I am used to it.
>>
>> >>>>>Now the question, "do they really work ?" they are not cheap,
about
>=
>the
>> >>>>>cost
>> >>>>>of 4 =A0x 3000ft tow so I would appreciate if someone who used
them
>=
>can
>> >>>>>comment.
>>
>> >>>>>Cheers
>> >>>>>Jack- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>The quickest way to get air sick is to watch the inside wing go
>backwards against the ground while turning,avoid that even if your not
>lookng directly at the inside of the turn.. The solution is fly the
>airplane so you don't have time to get air sick. I remember doing some
>dual cross country in a Janus and becoming slightly air sick while
>reading a map and not flying. I just had to fly alittle and all that
>sweaty and dry mouth nausea subsided. It will get better the more you
>fly the airplane.
>

[Vaughn Simon]

"Jack" <None> wrote in message
u...
>I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>
> I have tried:
> - Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
> - Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
> - Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but still
> not good enough.

Motion sickness is partly physical but mostly mental. I think that I am a
very typical pilot in that as long as I am the one on the controls, I am
unlikely to suffer. But shortly after someone else takes the controls and does
a few "whoop-de-doos" all bets are off! Encourage your instructor to keep
demonstrations brief, and to "talk you through" maneuvers whenever possible
rather than demonstrating, even if that slows your progress a bit.

The best medicine for motion sickness is continued exposure to the conditions
that cause it. Most likely, you will soon get used to the sensations of flight
and your problems will gradually fade away. Until then, do whatever seems to
help.

Vaughn

[Mike the Strike]

On Nov 9, 6:26*am, "Vaughn Simon" >
wrote:
> "Jack" <None> wrote in message
>
> u...
>
> >I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>
> > I have tried:
> > - Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
> > - Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
> > - Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but still
> > not good enough.
>
> * *Motion sickness is partly physical but mostly mental. *I think that I am a
> very typical pilot in that as long as I am the one on the controls, I am
> unlikely to suffer. *But shortly after someone else takes the controls and does
> a few "whoop-de-doos" all bets are off! *Encourage your instructor to keep
> demonstrations brief, and to "talk you through" maneuvers whenever possible
> rather than demonstrating, even if that slows your progress a bit.
>
> * *The best medicine for motion sickness is continued exposure to the conditions
> that cause it. *Most likely, you will soon get used to the sensations of flight
> and your problems will gradually fade away. *Until then, do whatever seems to
> help.
>
> Vaughn

Ginger is a proven remedy for many people. Those not responding to
tablets have found that chewing ginger root works. Give it a try.

Mike

[C Koenig]

Jack - email me if you are interested in trying that watch.
Colleen

[Tom Gardner]

On Nov 9, 7:10*am, "Jack" <None> wrote:
> I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
> I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
> electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent motion
> sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
> adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually lower
> the intensity until I am used to it.

I would be *very* cautious about using any drugs to combat motion
sickness, and personally I would seek advice from a doctor that is
qualified to give medical advice on aviation matters.

My daughter also suffers from motion sickness, particularly after
thermalling for a while or when spinning to lose height :)

She finds that she gets some comfort from some cheap-n-cheerful
wristbands (<$10) consisting of an elasticated strap with a plastic
bobble about 1cm in diameter and 0.5cm thick. That bobble is placed
on a specific spot on the wrist. I was (and continue to be) sceptical
that it can have any benefit, but I'm not going to tell her that ;)

I'm lucky: air sickenss hasn't been a problem for me, but I'm not
completely immune. I'm most likely to experience the beginnings
of nausea when I'm not flying the aircraft and when I'm looking
sidewards in turbulence. Looking straight forward has helped me.

They say that many pilots suffer from motion sickness, so don't
give up hope too soon.

[Michael Ash]

Jack <None> wrote:
> I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>
> I have tried:
> - Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
> - Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
> - Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
> still not good enough.

I really feel for you. I have struggled with motion sickness as well,
although from your description it seems that mine is not as much of a
problem.

When I first started taking lessons it worried me a lot because I had a
history of motion sickness. At the time I had even given up on
long-distance bus travel because they simply made me feel terrible. But I
wanted to fly enough that I decided to give it a shot, and everything was
fine.

Later on I started flying a 1-26 and for some reason this started making
me feel bad again. Fortunately for me it seems that it's *only* the 1-26
that regularly makes me feel sick. I have been sick in other gliders, but
it's rare and there's always some reason for it, like being overly tired,
or that one exciting time my canopy completely frosted over in rotor.

I don't know what it is about the 1-26, but I theorize that it's related
to the very upright and squished (I'm pretty tall) posture I have in it,
and the very large instrument panel that covers up my view.

I decided to simply not fly the 1-26 anymore, because I have lots of other
good options. But before I decided that, I spent some time trying to solve
the problem in other ways, partly because it took me some time to realize
that I was only getting sick in the 1-26, and partly because I really
enjoyed flying it. Keep in mind that motion sickness is largely
(entirely?) psychological, and so that to an even greater extent than many
other medical problems, it varies greatly depending on the individual.
Here's what I tried:

- Crystallized ginger. Highly recommended. Works pretty well, tastes good,
and makes a good snack even if you don't need it in the air. I know you
mentioned ginger tablets, but this may have an advantage simply because
you get to taste the stuff, and the taste may help.

- Drinking more. Getting dehydrated in flight was not helpful! Of course
this is bad anyway. I started carrying a camelbak along with me, and that
helped.

- Eating more/less/differently. I played around with what I ate, and when,
and how much, both for lunch around flight time and for breakfast in the
morning, and this helped as well.

- Contact lenses. I normally wear glasses, and I found that I'd often get
distracted by the frame of my glasses and this would make things get worse
fast. Wearing contacts gets rid of the frame, and I found a pair of
gigantic cheap sunglasses for when it's sunny that keeps the frame safely
out of view. This made a big difference.

- Sleep more. I found that for me, fatigue was a huge factor. I once got
very rapidly sick in a Grob 103 (which was normally just fine for me)
after a busy week at a technical conference.

- Follow the controls if somebody else is flying. This obviously wasn't a
make-or-break for me since I mainly had problems in a single-seater, but
it still seems like a good thing to do. If the other guy is flying, keep
your hand lightly (lightly!) on the stick and follow what he's doing.
Above all else ensure that you never interfere with his flying, but a
light touch can help ensure that you keep your brain informed of what
movements are coming.

And once again, just remember that these were my personal experiences and
yours may (probably will) vary. But I hope that might give you some ideas.

Lastly, you'll probably simply get better with time, as you acclimate. In
the lesson you desrcibe, you say that you were doing fine until the
instructor took over and flew some steep thermalling turns. This can be
pretty hard on the inner ear! It's no surprise that this caused you to
feel bad. Rather than focusing on how you got sick in these pretty trying
conditions, think about how well you were doing up to that point.
Eventually you should be able to do these more extreme maneuvers without
any trouble either, but just work up to it.

You asked about the electronic wristbands. I tried one of those as well,
it didn't do anything for me. I borrowed one from a club-mate for a try,
you may want to ask around and see if anyone in your area has one you
could borrow. It actually belonged to his wife, and she absolutely swears
by it. From what I've read, they have highly variable success depending on
the individual. It's certainly worth a shot if you can borrow one, or buy
one from a place with a good return policy.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[Michael Ash]

Michael Ash > wrote:
> Jack <None> wrote:
>> I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>>
>> I have tried:
>> - Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
>> - Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
>> - Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
>> still not good enough.
>
> I really feel for you. I have struggled with motion sickness as well,
> although from your description it seems that mine is not as much of a
> problem.
[snip snip]

Forgot to mention: try not to move your head around too much. Slow, smooth
motions only if you can. (Obviously if moving your head quickly is
required for safe operation, then move your head quickly.) You want to
avoid sharp inputs to your vestibular canals. Hold your head steady when
you can, and move it slowly and smoothly when you need to.

Good luck!

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[ZZ]

Scopolamine is very effective but one of the side effects is reduced
accommodation. Thus your near vision will be blurred and if you are far
sighted (hyperopic) your distance vision will be affected as well. This
might be okay on a boat but not when piloting an aircraft. I would
suggest avoiding any pharmaceutical if you are PIC. Keep trying.

Paul
ZZ








Willy VINKEN wrote:
> No Jack, they don't.
> Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they might.
> Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent motion
> sickness. Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget. The worst
> situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
> Keep trying, and things will improve.
> Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
> NASA even experimented with scopolamine. Those are not trademarks,
> but international nonproprietary chemical names. Trademarks are
> different in different countries.
> The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
> But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition. Your
> instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration isn't
> dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. After all, this is
> what basic learning to fly is all about.
> Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face, and
> concentrate on flying. And believe me, half an hour in the air,
> working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
> Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't improve
> your skills.
>
> Willy VINKEN
> Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
> And having seen a lot of motion sickness...
>
>
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:10:01 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:
>
>> I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>>
>> I have tried:
>> - Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
>> - Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
>> - Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
>> still not good enough.
>>
>> Today in a lesson we had very good conditions, for the first time I was able
>> to really play and experiment with the glider without stress or time
>> constraints, various banks in thermals, near stalls, trim various speeds
>> etc... I was able to get back to thermals to go back to 4-5000ft, I had all
>> these thing I was planning on learning/improving and today was the perfect
>> day for it but after 30 min the instructor tried to show me how to thermal
>> with a high bank and in 2 spins I started to feel bad, I took the controls
>> again but 1 minute later I was sweating, my focus and concentration were
>> gone. We had to waste 5000ft gliding straight down with brakes out.
>>
>> My disapointment was huge, I was upset with myself and questioned if I
>> should have stayed and fought it but with hindsight I feel we did the right
>> thing to land.
>>
>> I understand that I will probably get used to it but from a learning point
>> of view only doing short flights will slow down my progression and from a
>> financial point of view, well a 15min or 1 hour flight cost the same...
>>
>> I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
>> electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent motion
>> sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
>> adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually lower
>> the intensity until I am used to it.
>>
>> Now the question, "do they really work ?" they are not cheap, about the cost
>> of 4 x 3000ft tow so I would appreciate if someone who used them can
>> comment.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jack
>>
>>
>>

[bumper]

With so many esteemed people saying otherwise, I'm almost ashamed to tell
you that the "ReliefBand" works quite well for me, on the few occasions I've
tried it. I carry one in my power plane for passenger use and it seems to be
effective on those who've needed it. One thing for sure, though, is it is
necessary to put the thing on *before* the onset of symptoms, then just push
the button to turn it on if or when it's needed. The last thing you want to
do is be fiddling with getting it on your wrist inside the cockpit when your
tummy is feeling queasy. It's also important to read and follow the
directions carefully, as precise placement is critical.

38 customer reviews at:
http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/5414?qryrmv=1&ppcs=google&ppcg=3-02&keyword=relief%20band%20motion%20sickness&gclid=COCj7v7D6JYCFQQCagodHnCiOQ

bumper

[Tech Support]

Jack

I started flying (stiff wing) in late 30's and experienced
intermittent nausea for many hours. While all of my experience has
been in powered aircraft, I can offer some suggestions from my decades
of flying.

In no particular order:

1. Keep cockpit COLD as possible.
2. Direct as much airstream as possible on face.
3. Dress to stay cool.
4. You fly the aircraft (minimum passenger time).
5. Stay busy flying bird (no time to get sick).
6. Make sweeping gentle maneuvers. You may fall out of a thermal but
that is price of getting body acclimated.
7. I don't have the data at hand any more but watch what you eat,
no hot spicy, amount and how close to flight time. May find some
info on Google? Sucking on some peppermint Life Savers sometimes
helps. Chew gum.
8.Have ur ears checked. ENT Doc might determine an anomaly he can
fix. Check inner ear on Google for history of nausea. Check NASA
for what they do/recommend for nausea. What do they do in their
zero"G" trainer aircraft.
9. Sched ur flights in early morning when air is cool and minimum
thermals to bump you around. Know this is not best glider time but
you are trying to get over ur air sickness problem. Stay out of
rough air as aggravates air sickness.
10. Carry a kit with you:
Zip Lock bags to catch barf. Will keep you clean and remove
smell from cockpit. Use instead of diving back to
land.
Wet wipes to clean face and lips after barfing. Store in a Zip
Lock after using.
Possibly small bottle of mouth wash to remove taste from
mouth.
11. AND. Years ago, before TV and Internet, we had a game we played.
We would take a broom and hold bristles against our chest and
spin around as fast as possible looking up handle for 10-20 times
in evening on the grass when stars came out. We then would throw
broom on ground and try to jump over it. Was impossible to do as
you always seemed to jump 90 degrees from direction you wanted to
go. You might try this 'game' every day to give ur body the
exposure to the inner ear vs eye sight difference which you
experience in flight and is the root cause of nausea.

All of these recommendations are little or no cost except for the Doc
visit.

Hope perseverance pays off for you and you can start enjoying your
flying.

Big John
Older than mud :o)

My list of actions is not all inclusive. Many other things have been
suggested to you and can also be tried.
************************************************** *****************

On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:10:01 +1100, "Jack" <None> wrote:

>I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>
>I have tried:
>- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
>- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
>- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
>still not good enough.
>
>Today in a lesson we had very good conditions, for the first time I was able
>to really play and experiment with the glider without stress or time
>constraints, various banks in thermals, near stalls, trim various speeds
>etc... I was able to get back to thermals to go back to 4-5000ft, I had all
>these thing I was planning on learning/improving and today was the perfect
>day for it but after 30 min the instructor tried to show me how to thermal
>with a high bank and in 2 spins I started to feel bad, I took the controls
>again but 1 minute later I was sweating, my focus and concentration were
>gone. We had to waste 5000ft gliding straight down with brakes out.
>
>My disapointment was huge, I was upset with myself and questioned if I
>should have stayed and fought it but with hindsight I feel we did the right
>thing to land.
>
>I understand that I will probably get used to it but from a learning point
>of view only doing short flights will slow down my progression and from a
>financial point of view, well a 15min or 1 hour flight cost the same...
>
>I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
>electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent motion
>sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
>adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually lower
>the intensity until I am used to it.
>
>Now the question, "do they really work ?" they are not cheap, about the cost
>of 4 x 3000ft tow so I would appreciate if someone who used them can
>comment.
>
>Cheers
>Jack
>
>
>

[Tim Taylor]

On Nov 9, 7:26*am, "Vaughn Simon" >
wrote:
> "Jack" <None> wrote in message
>
> u...
>
> >I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>
> > I have tried:
> > - Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
> > - Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
> > - Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but still
> > not good enough.
>
> * *Motion sickness is partly physical but mostly mental. *I think that I am a
> very typical pilot in that as long as I am the one on the controls, I am
> unlikely to suffer. *But shortly after someone else takes the controls and does
> a few "whoop-de-doos" all bets are off! *Encourage your instructor to keep
> demonstrations brief, and to "talk you through" maneuvers whenever possible
> rather than demonstrating, even if that slows your progress a bit.
>
> * *The best medicine for motion sickness is continued exposure to the conditions
> that cause it. *Most likely, you will soon get used to the sensations of flight
> and your problems will gradually fade away. *Until then, do whatever seems to
> help.
>
> Vaughn

Vaughn,

Please back up your statement "Motion sickness is partly physical but
mostly mental" with facts, references etc. I still get sick at the
beginning of each season and on days when the conditions are
unpredictable (wave, rough thermals, etc). The difference between you
flying and someone else is the predictability factor. When you fly
you know what you are going to do. For the most part I can find there
is little mental involved in airsickness. It is an inner ear issue
for most pilots where the inner ear is getting unpredictable stimulus
that causes the symptoms.

There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
really only confuses the topic.

[Vaughn Simon]

"Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
...

>There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
>mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
>spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
>back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
>really only confuses the topic.

You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. My opinion
is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders.

YMMV

Vaughn

[Willy VINKEN]

Having often been tossed around on rubber dinghies before and after
scuba diving in rough sea, I've noticed at least one mental factor to
motion sickness: contagion.
When one sailor starts vomiting, others follow soon...

Willy VINKEN MD


On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:47:40 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
> wrote:

>
>"Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
...
>
>>There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
>>mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
>>spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
>>back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
>>really only confuses the topic.
>
> You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. My opinion
>is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
>and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders.
>
> YMMV
>
>Vaughn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[John Galloway[_1_]]

At 18:51 09 November 2008, Tim Taylor wrote:

>Vaughn,
>
>Please back up your statement "Motion sickness is partly physical but
>mostly mental" with facts, references etc. I still get sick at the
>beginning of each season and on days when the conditions are
>unpredictable (wave, rough thermals, etc). The difference between you
>flying and someone else is the predictability factor. When you fly
>you know what you are going to do. For the most part I can find there
>is little mental involved in airsickness. It is an inner ear issue
>for most pilots where the inner ear is getting unpredictable stimulus
>that causes the symptoms.
>
>There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
>mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
>spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
>back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
>really only confuses the topic.
>
>

I second Tim's question. I am a medical doctor and in my 40th season as
a glider pilot. I have suffered from motion sickness from very early
childhood in cars, boats and (later) gliders. There are clearly may
people like myself who have a physical predisposition to motion sickness
and it really annoys me to have dogmatic views continually asserted to the
effect that it is mainly a psychological problem. The proponents of this
view almost invariably cite the fact that people can reduce or eliminate
motion sickness by using physical conditioning regimes as support for the
psychological aetiology hypothesis. The flaw in this argument is so
startlingly obvious that it hardly needs stating but here goes: how does
the efficacy of a physical cure prove a psychological cause?

No doubt people susceptible to motion sickness can exacerbate it by
subconsciously learning to expect it and this aspect can be helped using
psychological techniques. Moreover a treatment that successfully
physically de-conditions one from motion sickness will indeed reduce the
secondary expectation effect. Overall I see no evidence to counter my
view that motion sickness is primarily a physical problem with a variable
degree of secondary psychological overlay.

As to treatments: there are no drugs that are safe to use during solo
glider flying. I confess now to having used them all long ago.

I personally have found the electronic median nerve stimulator wrist
band/watch thingy to be surprisingly effective. I am by nature and
training totally cynical about alternative medicine therapies and I don't
know how this thing works for me. I am worried that if I think about it
too hard I might undermine its benefit for me. I don't think it is
purely a placebo because passive wrist pressure bands placed on the same
point are very much less effective.

John Galloway

[Tim Taylor]

On Nov 9, 12:47*pm, "Vaughn Simon" >
wrote:
> "Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
> >mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. *Please don't
> >spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
> >back it up. *You are not providing information that will help and
> >really only confuses the topic.
>
> * *You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. *My opinion
> is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
> and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders..
>
> * * YMMV
>
> Vaughn

*You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. *My
opinion
> is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
> and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders..
>
> * * YMMV
>
> Vaughn

Vaughn,

I try not to deal in opinion in scientific matters. As I said,
please provide your references or data to back up your opinion that
air sickness is mostly mental. If not you are providing an opinion
that will actually mislead people and prevent them from finding
solutions that work. There is a great deal of literature that shows
that there are solutions and that the causes are not mental but
related to stimulus input.

Here are a few:


Motion sickness adaptation: a neural mismatch model.
J T Reason
J R Soc Med. 1978 November; 71(11): 819–829.
PMCID: PMC1436193

Motion sickness: a synthesis and evaluation of the sensory conflict
theory.
Oman CM.
Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 1990 Feb;68(2):294-303.

Physiological basis and pharmacology of motion sickness: an update
B. J. Yates, A. D. Miller and J. B. Lucot
Brain Research Bulletin
Volume 47, Issue 5, 15 November 1998, Pages 395-406

Tim

[Mark Jardini]

my expereience as a flight surgeon in a high performance sqadron has
shown me that anyone can get airsick. (my call sign, "Chunks"). if the
fighter pilots are out of the cockpit for several weeks- airsickness
is a distinct possibility. also when they fly as check pilot, (read
passenger), again, rarely they would admit to airsickness.
The worse scenario for the fighter guys? put them in a simulator where
the instruments move but not the cockpit- instant airsick for them,
(whited out closed canopy).

My considerable airsick experience learnings
1- puke and you will feel better and be ok to press on
2- oatmeal is about the least bothersome coming up
3- even I could get over the airsickness if I flew often enough

mj

[Frank Whiteley]

On Nov 9, 1:31*pm, Mark Jardini > wrote:
> my expereience as a flight surgeon in a high performance sqadron has
> shown me that anyone can get airsick. (my call sign, "Chunks"). if the
> fighter pilots are out of the cockpit for several weeks- airsickness
> is a distinct possibility. also when they fly as check pilot, (read
> passenger), again, rarely they would admit to airsickness.
> The worse scenario for the fighter guys? put them in a simulator where
> the instruments move but not the cockpit- instant airsick for them,
> (whited out closed canopy).
>
> My considerable airsick experience learnings
> 1- puke and you will feel better and be ok to press on
> 2- oatmeal is about the least bothersome coming up
> 3- even I could get over the airsickness if I flew often enough
>
> mj

A glider pilot I used to know in the UK would throw up early during a
flight, especially if out in the sun for a while. Less prone to do
this if under cloud shadows. He'd be fine after hurling. Maybe a few
hard rounds of dizzy bat as a conditioning exercise are in order

FW

[Derek Copeland[_2_]]

Something about the active ingredient in Kwells tablets, which is hyoscine
hydrobromide. See:

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100001438.html

It seems it can cause drowsiness and vision disturbances, so probably not
suitable for solo flying. However it could be used during training until
the student gets used to the sensations of flying and stops being sick.

Derek Copeland

At 13:30 09 November 2008, Derek Copeland wrote:
>Jack,
>
>The anti-sickness pills are called 'Kwells', at least in the UK. I
used
>to take them for navigating in a rally cars, which is almost guaranteed
to
>make you throw up, especially on night rallies. The only side effect I
>noticed was a slight dryness of the mouth, but perhaps you should take
>medical advice on their suitability for flying.
>
>I to had a slight problem with air-sickness in my early gliding career.
>This didn't show up too much during my training, but became a problem
>when I started to make longer soaring flights after going solo. Several
>times I had to dive back to the airfield with full airbrakes out so that
>at least I could be sick on the ground. However this passed with growing
>familiarity with being in the air. I still sometimes feel a bit queasy
on
>rough blue thermal days flying with less than smooth student pilots (I
>have since qualified as an instructor).
>
>The best tips I can give are not to get too tense and to watch the
horizon
>as much as possible; this encourages a good lookout anyway.
>
>The wrist band might have a psychological or placebo effect. If you pay
a
>lot of money for it and believe it will work, then it probably will!
>
>Derek Copeland
>

[Don Johnstone[_3_]]

At 09:26 09 November 2008, Willy VINKEN wrote:
>No Jack, they don't.
>Or at least, there is no scientific evidence that proves they might.
>Nevertheless, everything that derives attention can prevent motion
>sickness. Even having spent a lot of money for a gadget. The worst
>situation is when you keep thinking motion sickness will happen.
>Keep trying, and things will improve.
>Drugs like cinnarazine or domperidone might help in between.
>NASA even experimented with scopolamine. Those are not trademarks,
>but international nonproprietary chemical names. Trademarks are
>different in different countries.
>The more efficient they are, the more side effects they have...
>But still, they might be a suitable solution for transition. Your
>instructor is always behind you, so some lack of concentration isn't
>dramatic, and you still keep acquiring reflexes. After all, this is
>what basic learning to fly is all about.
>Open the window a bit, get some fresh air blowing in your face, and
>concentrate on flying. And believe me, half an hour in the air,
>working hard, is more than enough for a beginner to be exhausted.
>Longer flights simply add 'minutes in the cockpit', but don't improve
>your skills.
>
>Willy VINKEN
>Medical doctor, diving instructor and glider pilot.
>And having seen a lot of motion sickness...
>
>
Acupuncture works, I am the most sceptical person when it comes to
"alternative remedies" but it really does work and I read somewhere that
the wrist pressure works because it is an acupunture point. You would need
to talk to an acupunture practitioner to get confirmation.
As an example I have a very strong gag reflex and my dentist had to take
some impressions, garunteed to make me gag. She made me press quite hard
on a point centrally under my bottom lip for 90 seconds. I was convinced I
would gag. The impressions were taken with absolutely no problem. It does
work, why I have no idea and the fact that it cannot be scientifically
explained does not alter that fact.

[Doug Hoffman]

Don Johnstone wrote:

> Acupuncture works, I am the most sceptical person when it comes to
> "alternative remedies" but it really does work and I read somewhere that
> the wrist pressure works because it is an acupunture point. You would need
> to talk to an acupunture practitioner to get confirmation.
> As an example I have a very strong gag reflex and my dentist had to take
> some impressions, garunteed to make me gag. She made me press quite hard
> on a point centrally under my bottom lip for 90 seconds. I was convinced I
> would gag. The impressions were taken with absolutely no problem. It does
> work, why I have no idea and the fact that it cannot be scientifically
> explained does not alter that fact.

Ever hear of the placebo effect? That *is* a scientific explanation.
But hey, if it works for you that's all that matters. :-)

Regards,

-Doug

[[email protected]]

Use your head rest. Minimize head movements, especially pitching your
head up and down. Use your eyeballs to look around. Yes you must
look around especially before turning, always clear your turns. But
if you minimize unnecessary head pitching you WILL reduce your motion
sickness. Also, you can condition yourself by stimulating your
equilibrium system by swinging on swings and twirling on playground
equipment. Don't make yourself sick, stop and sit still till the
feeling passes. The more you expose yourself to extreme equilibrial
stimulation the more you will be able to tolerate. Eventually it will
not be a problem or will only bother after a long lay off from
soaring. Then you just have to work up to it again. Don't let this
problem stop you.

[Berry[_2_]]

In article >,
"Jack" <None> wrote:

> I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
>
> I have tried:
> - Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
> - Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
> - Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
> still not good enough.
>


Hi,

I have one of the electronic wrist bands and it usually works for me. I
say "usually" because it sometimes does not prevent me from becoming
queasy if I am already fatigued or if the conditions are very warm and
turubulent. However, it does the trick about 90% of the time. Works
great on my wife is she has an upset stomach.

What works 100% of the time for me is a prescription drug called
"Scopace". It's scopolamine just like the anti-nausea patches. However,
it's in pill form. It works much faster than the patches, you can
control the dose much better, and it's dirt cheap. The only side effect
I notice is dry mouth. No drowsiness or visual impairment, although
those are possible with scopolamine. I did a couple of 6 hour flights,
low and hot, struggling to stay aloft (significant task overcalls) and
the scopace kept me feeling well. Even if there was some decrement to my
mental state that I did not perceive, it was not nearly as large as the
decrement one experiences when severely nauseous. Go see your doc and
get a scrip for scopace, try it out on the ground for a day before you
use it in the air.

[vic20owner]

Maybe try flying often on a simulator?

Even a simulator would make me feel a little dizzy in the beginning,
and my girlfriend feels sick almost instantly when she sees me flying
on it. In the air however, I have not been sick (yet) even in tight
circles. I've only three lessons in so I guess there is still time!
I think it helps because you learn to anticipate the movements.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Nov 10, 10:12*am, vic20owner > wrote:
> Maybe try flying often on a simulator?
>
> Even a simulator would make me feel a little dizzy in the beginning,
> and my girlfriend feels sick almost instantly when she sees me flying
> on it. *In the air however, I have not been sick (yet) even in tight
> circles. *I've only three lessons in so I guess there is still time!
> I think it helps because you learn to anticipate the movements.

Not sure about that. We had a know-it-all (according to the ride
pilot) young person with 1500 hours claimed on a flight simulator.
Puked his guts out on his first glider ride.

[vic20owner]

> Not sure about that. We had a know-it-all (according to the ride
> pilot) young person with 1500 hours claimed on a flight simulator.
> Puked his guts out on his first glider ride.

Hah! That's perfect. Sounds like he needed that humbling experience
to dumb him down a few notches.

[James]

>
> Acupuncture works, I am the most sceptical person when it comes to
> "alternative remedies" but it really does work and I read somewhere that
> the wrist pressure works because it is an acupunture point. You would need
> to talk to an acupunture practitioner to get confirmation.
> As an example I have a very strong gag reflex and my dentist had to take
> some impressions, garunteed to make me gag. She made me press quite hard
> on a point centrally under my bottom lip for 90 seconds. I was convinced I
> would gag. The impressions were taken with absolutely no problem. It does
> work, why I have no idea and the fact that it cannot be scientifically
> explained does not alter that fact.

..
..
I recently read a report on a large study of acupuncture. There were
two large groups, one being a control group. Both groups improved
significantly. The study group received acupuncture at the
recommended locations by acupuncture experts. The control received the
same treatment except that the sites for the needles were chosen at
random.

While both groups improved there was no significant difference between
the two groups. Sorry I don't remember exactly where I saw the
report.

James
..
..

[bagmaker]

Jack, hang in there

I found the further away from the airstrip I got, the less sick I got.
Go cross-country as soon as you can, the increased concentration required lessens the nausea. Try not to think about it too much.

Also, classically-
Eat banana's before flying. They contain lots of potassium.
(but actually they just taste better coming up than most things)

bagger

[Ian]

Derek Copeland wrote:

> Something about the active ingredient in Kwells tablets, which is hyoscine
> hydrobromide. See:
>
> http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100001438.html
>
> It seems it can cause drowsiness and vision disturbances, so probably not
> suitable for solo flying. However it could be used during training until
> the student gets used to the sensations of flying and stops being sick.

"...can cause..." is the operative phrase. I use Scopalamine patches
(Scopaderm) for sailing, because I get appallingly seasick. I have
never felt the need for flying, but if that was what it took, I'd use
them ... but that's after many, many days of using the things and the
knowledge that they don't cause any drowsiness or vision disturbances /
in me/.

Ian

[MickiMinner]

I am suprised that no one mentioned auricular therapy. this is based
off of acupuncture, only there is NO puncture. The technician merely
applies a small metal bead to the back of your ear in the same place
that you would stick an acupuncture needle, and applies a little patch
on top of the bead to hold it in place (NO drugs in the patch)....it
works like a charm. I had a brain tumor with lots of dizziness and
nausea, and they worked great, and I didn't have to introduce any new
drugs into my system while recovering.
just an idea worth exploring....Micki

[sisu1a]

>*this is based off of acupuncture, only there is NO puncture. *

Isn't that called acupressure?

-Paul

[Matt Herron Jr.]

Hi Jack.

I wanted to add one more thing to your new arsenal of remedies that I
didn't see mentioned here. I too had this problem when I started. I
will never forget one of my first solo flights. My instructor was
watching from the ground as I entered pattern. By the time I turned
final, I was getting really nauseous and knew I was moments away from
woofing my cookies; cold sweats, dry mouth, etc.. I realized that
doing this on final could be very hazardous to my health, so I
clenched my stomach, focused madly on the touchdown spot, and somehow
willed myself not to throw up for the next 20 seconds. When I landed,
my instructor rushed over to congratulate me on a great landing. I
climbed out quickly and threw up on the tarmac right in front of him.
Not my proudest moment, but certainly memorable...

A fellow pilot suggested Peptid AC an hour before flight. It made no
sense to me but as there were no side affects, I gave it a try.
Happily it worked, and I haven't been sick since. Maybe one of the
doctors following this thread can comment, but my theory is that it
reduces the stomach acid which may be one of the factors that
contribute to the onset of air sickness. Stress was not mentioned as
a factor, and new pilots have lots of stress. Stress produces stomach
acid. That may be one of the reasons (certainly not the only one)
that air sickness is reduced as you get used to flying.

So as a rule, before I fly, I;
1) eat a bland lunch like a turkey sandwich, light on the mayo and
mustard.
2) take a Peptid AC about an hour before flight
3) keep hydrated!!!
4) keep air on the face during flight

Good luck!

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 17:21 10 November 2008, Frank Whiteley wrote:
>
>Not sure about that. We had a know-it-all (according to the ride
>pilot) young person with 1500 hours claimed on a flight simulator.
>Puked his guts out on his first glider ride.

Well, it's always tough to be the other guy in the glider
when the passenger starts hurling chunks. Then again,
it must have been at least a little bit satisfying in this
case. In fact, if the PIC had contrived to make the flight
just a bit more exciting than was really necessary, I
wouldn't have blamed him.

Jim Beckman

[MickiMinner]

On Nov 10, 9:59*pm, sisu1a > wrote:
> >*this is based off of acupuncture, only there is NO puncture. *
>
> Isn't that called acupressure?
>
> -Paul

Thanks Paul, I couldn't remember acupressure (works on the same
concept as the wrist band thingy).
From what I understand, however, the back of the ear is the place for
the pressure to help motion sickness.
micki

[Gavin Short[_2_]]

At 17:21 10 November 2008, Frank Whiteley wrote:

>
>Not sure about that. We had a know-it-all (according to the ride
>pilot) young person with 1500 hours claimed on a flight simulator.
>Puked his guts out on his first glider ride.
>

Brilliant! This had me laughing out loud at the start of the day in
theoffice.

Gavin
Std Cirrus, CNN now G-SCNN, #173
LSV Viersen, Keiheuvel, Belgium

[Jim Archer]

>
>Very intertaining thread, almost as much as the SN-10 vs PDA thread.
Both reveal much about the human condition!

After giving hundreds of glider rides for a comm. operation, the
airsickness thing has me baffled, I could not and still cannot predict who
will or will not get sick. But I think I understand the underpinnings of
it. Here are my empirical observations:

I've really only been nauseous twice, once on my first soaring glider
ride, and second in the back of a helicopter, head down trying frantically
to troubleshoot an airborn mapping system while maneuvering randomly.
Brain got way behind of the flight trajectory that day!

EVERYONE has a reason why they got sick, except that their inner ear was
fooled. And each persons reason is wholly unique. The experience of
getting sick seems to trigger a strong need for correlation! I presume
this stems from humans, over millions of years, eating the wrong thing
from time to time.

On Anyone's first glider ride after the first 1/2 hour, the chances of
getting nauseous is probably a coin toss. If they liked the first 1/2
hour they can land and come back again, and with little chance that they
will get sick on the second ride.

Some people would never get sick, even if you circled 60 deg, 2k agl, oat
100+, for the entire flight. Figuring that out would go a long way towards
a remedy.

I have no experience with any of the remedies discussed in thread. I know
Dramamine has no reliable effectiveness, and heard that it is very
unpleasant on the way back up.

Evidence for multiple previous points is one riders deduction... "that
dramamine made me sick because I took it on an empty stomach"

Finally, I don't really know why I believe the best remedy for a
physiological problem is a psychological one, except that on most pilots
the left brain is firmly connected to the right. I think the best remedy
is...
After a good nights rest, exposure to soaring conditions in a confident,
casual, relaxed concentration state. If there is one, the only common
thread I see with the people who get sick is nervous stress. I believe
that for some, the brain gets stressed, and becomes too busy to properly
process the inner ear functions. When giving rides my boss told me to
never ask them if they think they will get sick, to avoid the issue
entirely. Later I understood that to mean that keeping them relaxed was
paramount, that it was my resposiblity to monitor the nausea issue.
Introducing the idea to the rider only makes them nervous and preoccupied
about it, leading to airsickness. They really had no real way of knowing
if they would get sick anyway. Many who said they would get sick never
had any problems. "I guess I only get sick when I can't see outside
very well".

Along with that, at the first HINT of nausea get on ground as smoothly and
as swiftly as possible. I would think flying around sick has got to set
you up for future failure. Land and stop associating flying with nausea.
Oh so difficult to do on a day when you are on your way to 14k. Better
though, to rinse and repeat... the following day or weekend.

On a huge tangent, relaxed focus is a very subtle and tricky thing to do
well when things get stressful. In rock climbing, there is always fear
due to risk, but managing it makes all the difference. The problem is
that you only get scared when it gets difficult. I once heard a
description by one climber that stuck with me. "On a difficult section,
while your body is at complete maximum, engine at absolute redline, your
mind should be like it is on the couch reading, with great curiosity and
imagination, an intricate novel". Fear/nervousness adds an incredible
demand on the body that can limit capabilities dramatically. If unmanaged
fear enters the picture, you no go up, period! That is one reason why
it's so fun, your physical potential is first limited by your mental
potential. No real physical redline in soaring, but the mental stress and
demand due to percieved/actual risk element is the same. I think there is
a nausea connection in there somewhere... just stay relaxed and focused,
it's that 'simple', right?

I rarely post, but evidently when I do I write a small novel. You are all
fortunate that I did not post to the SN-10/PDA thread!

[soarbooks]

On Nov 9, 2:10*am, "Jack" <None> wrote:
> I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.

Reply from Bob Wander:

Hi Jack,
Take a number - you are not the first nor the last. I wish you well as
you ... become one of the birds like the rest of us.

Here is an excerpt from my book "Everybody's First Gliding Book" - the
excerpt addresses the newbie airsickness problem. Note that the US Air
Force chooses to confront, rather than ignore, the problem! If it
works for them...

Safe soaring,
Bob Wander
+++++++++
Excerpt from Bob Wander's "Everybody's First Gliding Book"
Truth… Or Dare?
There have long been two schools of thought regarding motion sickness
and flight training. The first (and to my mind, discredited) school of
thought is, essentially, to ignore the problem. Here is a direct quote
from the promotional literature of an American flight school: “Nausea
is rare among pilots. Occasionally it may take a few lessons to get
used to the sensation of flight. After a few hours in the air, normal
flight often begins to feel as natural as driving a car.”

Any instructor who has logged more than ten hours teaching flying will
tell you that the preceding statement was written by the marketing
department, not the flight training department. Among new pilots at
least, nausea is a very common occurrence. It's as common as moths, or
rats, or pigeons.

The second school of thought is to recognize the motion sickness
problem and its common causes. Here are several condensed extracts
from the United States' Air Force Flight Surgeon's Guide:
Motion sickness is a well-known phenomenon in humans in unusual
environments. Motion and acceleration effects in aviation are for the
most part highly respected, if not feared, among aviators. Motion
sickness is defined as a response to real or apparent motion to which
a person is not adapted; it is not a disorder, and the symptoms are
normal responses to an "abnormal" stimulus... Airsickness can be a
significant issue in flight training... The most complete models
include interactions or mismatches between perception, cognition,
affect, and physiology... The acceleration of normal gastric motility
(about 3 waves/min) to tachygastria (4-9 waves/min) accompanies the
subjective signs (pallor, apathy) and symptoms (salivation, sweating,
nausea, vomiting) of motion sickness. Motion sickness results from a
maladaptive physiological reaction. It is estimated that one hour of
simple classroom awareness training on the basics of motion sickness
(normalization and identification of symptoms, basic vestibular
physiology), along with rudimentary methods of prevention (foods,
dietary schedule, stress management, etc.) can reduce airsickness
incidence by as much as 30%.

The Air Force has chosen to recognize and manage the motion sickness
problem. We who fly gliders, or seek to fly gliders, should do the
same. It is nonsensical to deny that the problem exists.

So, you ask, what's a mother to do?
1. First thing is to recognize that most pilot trainees have some
degree of trouble with nausea/airsickness. This probably includes
you! Ask your instructor for advice on how to manage the problem.
2. Next, on those days when motion sickness affects you, recognize the
symptoms early and promptly terminate your flight.
3. Schedule some training flights when the air is stable and the ride
is smooth.
4. Track your resistance to nausea/airsickness. The vast majority of
pilots discover that incidents of nausea decrease in number and
intensity as their flight training program progresses. In other words,
the more time that you have in the air, the less bothersome that
airsickness is likely to be.

Eventually your body learns that the sensations of flight, while
novel, do not present an immediate hazard to your safety or well-
being, and you adapt to your new environment: The Sky.
-submitted by Bob Wander
-end

[newbie]

Relief bands worked for me. Medically think along the well accepted
practices of acupressure and acupuncture. You can find "relief bands"
at most pharmacies for around 15 bucks or so. Flying power under the
hood with an instructor also helped quite a bit. I also find the more
flying I do the less I feel sick. The beginning of the soaring
season always involves a slight queasiness curve I have to work
through. Good luck, have faith, you will overcome. Topher.

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 00:15 14 November 2008, newbie wrote:
>Relief bands worked for me. Medically think along the well accepted
>practices of acupressure and acupuncture.

"Well accepted?" I don't think either one has ever worked in
a real double-blind test (such a test being difficult to do, but
not impossible). Way too far OT to discuss here, however.

> You can find "relief bands"
>at most pharmacies for around 15 bucks or so.

Which is sort of ridiculous, isn't it? I mean, it must cost
about 15 cents to make one. You could make one yourself.
But would it work? I suspect it has more to do with the
15 dollars than anything else.

Jim Beckman