Review: New book on the U2 super motorglider

[kd6veb]

Hi Gang
Occasionally one finds a good read on a subject that many of us are
interested in, namely soaring. Well the Government funded in the 50s
the development of a new spy plane - a motorglider - named the U2. The
specifications of this machine included operation up to 80,000 feet at
80% the speed of sound so that no fighter could approach it and shoot
it down and no fighter has ever shot one done. The U2 was probably
the best spy plane ever until shot down by a SAM. On that day the
Russians not only shot down Gary Powers in a U2 but also one of their
own MIG19s tailing Powers 25,0000 feet below with a barrage of SAMs.
The flying characteristics of the U2 were unlike anything the
Military had been experienced to. To achieve the low weight to get
high it was built much less strongly than any other military aircraft
and was (and is) super fragile. At altitude it has a 5 knot window of
operation. Too fast it would flutter and break up and too slow it
would stall and if not corrected immediately would go into an
unrecoverable flat spin. So only the top fighter pilots were assigned
to U2s. Think about this you pilots! To fly a U2 for several hours at
65,000 feet initially and then as the fuel burned off 80,000 feet in
an uncomfortable space suit the pilot would have to maintain a speed
plus or minus 2.5 knots IAS. Obviously the mortality rate for U2
pilots was high. The plane had initially all kinds of engine problems
with flameout at altitude. The pilot then had to push the nose down
and go to a lower altitude without going outside the 5 knot window of
operation and attempt an engine restart that sometimes was possible
and at other times not. On one flight the U2 glided over 300 nautical
miles after engine failure from altitude and landed safely. And, by
the way, this was at speeds of up to 400 knot per hour. So that would
suggest an average L/D of about 25 from an altitude of 60,000 feet.
Not bad!
OK no more juicy bits of info from the book. The book is written well
and includes almost everything about the U2 since all information on
U2 is now declassified. I found the book to be a super read and an
easy read. Just order yourselves a copy for that long cold miserable
winter's day when you have nothing else to do. You won't be
disappointed.
Dave

"Spyplane the U2 History Declassified"
by Norman Polmar
Publisher: MBI Publishing Co
729 Prospect Avenue
PO Box 1, Osceola, WI 54020
www.motorbooks.com
1-800-826-6600
(Price I paid $21.95)

[rlovinggood]

"...400 knot per hour..."

Is that 400 nautical miles per hour squared?

Reading that is as painful as hearing fingernails on a blackboard...


Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

[Craig[_2_]]

On Nov 12, 12:15*pm, rlovinggood > wrote:
> "...400 knot per hour..."
>
> Is that 400 nautical miles per hour squared?
>
> Reading that is as painful as hearing fingernails on a blackboard...
>
> Ray Lovinggood
> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Nah.. The one that drives me over the edge is nuculur (phonetic
spelling) when nuclear is what was meant.

Craig Funston

[noel.wade]

On Nov 12, 12:38*pm, Craig > wrote:
> Nah.. *The one that drives me over the edge is nuculur (phonetic
> spelling) when nuclear is what was meant.
>
> Craig Funston

Craig -

The correct spelling is "n-u-c-u-l-a-r". Or, "f-e-a-r--a-n-d--i-g-n-o-
r-a-n-c-e" here in the USA. :-P

Apologies for the tangent, all - but it goes beyond fingernails on a
chalkboard for me... I look forward to reading (yet another)
interesting book about the U-2!

--Noel
(who has a Nuclear Engineer for a Dad - one who has a full head of
hair and doesn't glow in the dark; despite working at a power plant
for 30+ years AND being on Nuclear Submarines for a few years before
that)

[Ralph Jones[_2_]]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:15:09 -0800 (PST), rlovinggood
> wrote:

>"...400 knot per hour..."
>
>Is that 400 nautical miles per hour squared?
>
>Reading that is as painful as hearing fingernails on a blackboard...
>
>
It gets worse...a recent contestant on "Are You Smarter Than A Fifth
Grader" was asked "How many watts are there in a kilowatt-hour?"

rj

[Jim Logajan]

rlovinggood > wrote:
> "...400 knot per hour..."
>
> Is that 400 nautical miles per hour squared?

No, that'd be 400 knots per knot. A knot per hour has units of an
acceleration.

> Reading that is as painful as hearing fingernails on a blackboard...

I hate when people in a knotty situation get naughty and post Youtube links
like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfRC8fmAaII

What's not to like?

[Kemp[_2_]]

But what about the ORIGINAL super motorglider, the Messerschmitt Me
163 Komet! The brochure might read:
- Super climb rate (3.5 kilometers per minute) gets you to 40,000 feet
in 3 minutes.
- High Vne (700 mph (1,100 km/h)), great for those Andes or Sierra
wave days
- Tough (cannons extra)

OH, fuel might be scarce. And occasionally it blew up. C'mon, there
are always tradeoffs.........

Kemp

[Simon Taylor[_2_]]

At 00:00 13 November 2008, Ralph Jones wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:15:09 -0800 (PST), rlovinggood
> wrote:
>
>>"...400 knot per hour..."
>>
>>Is that 400 nautical miles per hour squared?
>>
>>Reading that is as painful as hearing fingernails on a blackboard...
>>
>>
>It gets worse...a recent contestant on "Are You Smarter Than A Fifth
>Grader" was asked "How many watts are there in a kilowatt-hour?"
>
>rj
>

My favourite was a Channel 5 documentary (Channel 5 is a low-budget
channel in the UK, usually buying in overseas documentaries and
overdubbing them with a bored-sounding Briton) trying to underline the
professional qualities of a Martin Baker engineer:

'To this man, one second is a thousand microseconds.'

Hopefully they don't put him to work on any vital delay mechanisms...

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

Knot per hour, phooey. Nuculur, idiots. The one that bugs me big is all
the people talking about a lack of rainfall as a drow-th. It is a
d-r-o-u-g-h-t. Maybe those people have troubles forming their own
thaw-ths? :-)

Steve

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 20:38 12 November 2008, Craig wrote:
>
>Nah.. The one that drives me over the edge is nuculur (phonetic
>spelling) when nuclear is what was meant.

The last eight years must have been tough on you. I think
we've got it fixed now.

Jim Beckman

[Peter Purdie[_4_]]

It has been tough wondering why the USA had such a problem with tourists
when all they do over here is get in the way with enormous cameras and
fill up the hotels. Not a single bomb.

At 14:15 13 November 2008, Jim Beckman wrote:
>At 20:38 12 November 2008, Craig wrote:
>>
>>Nah.. The one that drives me over the edge is nuculur (phonetic
>>spelling) when nuclear is what was meant.
>
>The last eight years must have been tough on you. I think
>we've got it fixed now.
>
>Jim Beckman
>
>

[Ralph Jones[_2_]]

On 13 Nov 2008 13:30:04 GMT, Steve Leonard > wrote:

>Knot per hour, phooey. Nuculur, idiots. The one that bugs me big is all
>the people talking about a lack of rainfall as a drow-th. It is a
>d-r-o-u-g-h-t. Maybe those people have troubles forming their own
>thaw-ths? :-)
>
At least, during a drowth, you're not in danger of being drownded...

rj

[sisu1a]

> >Knot per hour, phooey. *Nuculur, idiots. *The one that bugs me big is all
> >the people talking about a lack of rainfall as a drow-th. *It is a
> >d-r-o-u-g-h-t. * Maybe those people have troubles forming their own
> >thaw-ths? *:-)
>
> At least, during a drowth, you're not in danger of being drownded...
>
> rj

Yeah, but it makes it harder to warsh up...

-Paul

[Fred Blair]

Yeah, we have it fixed now, we will not have any nuculur power when 'He' get
done.

"Jim Beckman" > wrote in message
...
> At 20:38 12 November 2008, Craig wrote:
>>
>>Nah.. The one that drives me over the edge is nuculur (phonetic
>>spelling) when nuclear is what was meant.
>
> The last eight years must have been tough on you. I think
> we've got it fixed now.
>
> Jim Beckman
>

[bumper]

"Jim Beckman" > wrote in message
...
> At 20:38 12 November 2008, Craig wrote:
>
> The last eight years must have been tough on you. I think
> we've got it fixed now.
>
> Jim Beckman
>

Fixed? During the next four years at least, I'm afraid we're about to find
out what "tough" really is.

bumper

[Andy[_1_]]

On Nov 13, 6:30*am, Steve Leonard > wrote:
> Knot per hour, phooey. *Nuculur, idiots. *The one that bugs me big is all
> the people talking about a lack of rainfall as a drow-th. *It is a
> d-r-o-u-g-h-t. * Maybe those people have troubles forming their own
> thaw-ths? *:-)
>
> Steve

Or the measure of elevation known as "heigth". How on earth can
height be pronounced heigth?

Andy

[sisu1a]

> Or the measure of elevation known as "heigth". *How on earth can
> height be pronounced heigth?
>
> Andy

Since by definition half of everybody IS dumber than average, heigth
easily fits in alongside breadth and width. Never misunderestimate the
power of stupidity!

-Paul

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

Oh, now! First off, it is heighth. That is old-English, for those of you
who didn't take your degrees in the humanities or read much in the King
James Bible.

Here is its historical lineage.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/heighth



At 17:49 13 November 2008, sisu1a wrote:
>> Or the measure of elevation known as "heigth". =A0How on earth can
>> height be pronounced heigth?
>>
>> Andy
>
>Since by definition half of everybody IS dumber than average, heigth
>easily fits in alongside breadth and width. Never misunderestimate the
>power of stupidity!
>
>-Paul
>

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

Kemp wrote:
> But what about the ORIGINAL super motorglider, the Messerschmitt Me
> 163 Komet! The brochure might read:
> - Super climb rate (3.5 kilometers per minute) gets you to 40,000 feet
> in 3 minutes.
> - High Vne (700 mph (1,100 km/h)), great for those Andes or Sierra
> wave days
<Snip>
With wood-n-fabric wings, no less!

Bob - winter must be real - W.

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

Kemp wrote:
> But what about the ORIGINAL super motorglider, the Messerschmitt Me
> 163 Komet! The brochure might read:
> - Super climb rate (3.5 kilometers per minute) gets you to 40,000 feet
> in 3 minutes.
> - High Vne (700 mph (1,100 km/h)), great for those Andes or Sierra
> wave days
<Snip>
With wood-n-fabric wings, no less!

Bob - winter must be real - W.

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

Bob Whelan wrote:
> Kemp wrote:
>> But what about the ORIGINAL super motorglider, the Messerschmitt Me
>> 163 Komet! The brochure might read:
>> - Super climb rate (3.5 kilometers per minute) gets you to 40,000 feet
>> in 3 minutes.
>> - High Vne (700 mph (1,100 km/h)), great for those Andes or Sierra
>> wave days
> <Snip>
> With wood-n-fabric wings, no less!
>
> Bob - winter must be real - W.
Apologies for the double post. Both said my connection to the server
had timed out...

RFW

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 17:22 13 November 2008, bumper wrote:
>
>Fixed? During the next four years at least, I'm afraid we're about to
find
>
>out what "tough" really is.

No doubt. At least the new guy won't spend so much of
his time fighting with the English language.

We can all look to soaring as solace, I hope.

Jim Beckman

[Martin Gregorie[_4_]]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:15:09 -0800, rlovinggood wrote:

> "...400 knot per hour..."
>
> Is that 400 nautical miles per hour squared?
>
> Reading that is as painful as hearing fingernails on a blackboard...
>
For me "nose dive" is a real irritant. The blasted plane is just diving
fer chrissakes. They seldom if ever "tail dive".


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Ralph Jones[_2_]]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:49:14 -0800 (PST), sisu1a
> wrote:

>> Or the measure of elevation known as "heigth". *How on earth can
>> height be pronounced heigth?
>>
>> Andy
>
>Since by definition half of everybody IS dumber than average, heigth
>easily fits in alongside breadth and width. Never misunderestimate the
>power of stupidity!
>
Ummm, no, half of everybody is dumber than median.

rj

[kirk.stant]

On Nov 13, 2:24*pm, Martin Gregorie
> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:15:09 -0800, rlovinggood wrote:
> > "...400 knot per hour..."
>
> > Is that 400 nautical miles per hour squared?
>
> > Reading that is as painful as hearing fingernails on a blackboard...
>
> For me "nose dive" is a real irritant. The blasted plane is just diving
> fer chrissakes. They seldom if ever "tail dive".
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |

No, they "tail spin"!!!! After "looping the loop", of course.

Kirk
66

[Martin Gregorie[_4_]]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:54 -0800, kirk.stant wrote:

> On Nov 13, 2:24Â*pm, Martin Gregorie
> > wrote:
>> On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:15:09 -0800, rlovinggood wrote:
>> > "...400 knot per hour..."
>>
>> > Is that 400 nautical miles per hour squared?
>>
>> > Reading that is as painful as hearing fingernails on a blackboard...
>>
>> For me "nose dive" is a real irritant. The blasted plane is just diving
>> fer chrissakes. They seldom if ever "tail dive".
>>
>> --
>> martin@ Â* | Martin Gregorie
>> gregorie. | Essex, UK
>> org Â* Â* Â* |
>
> No, they "tail spin"!!!! After "looping the loop", of course.
>
...and then there's this mysterious and deadly "pancake turbulence" that
jetliners seem to find over mountains. Is it really something separate
from common or garden wave?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[John H. Campbell[_2_]]

> Yeah, but it makes it harder to warsh up...
... which is the one that sends me up the wall: Why do George Wash-ington
and Wash-ington DC acquire an "r" in so many people's mouths?

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

>> For me "nose dive" is a real irritant. The blasted plane is
>> just diving fer chrissakes. They seldom if ever "tail dive".
>>
>> --
>> martin@ =A0 | Martin Gregorie
>> gregorie. | Essex, UK
>> org =A0 =A0 =A0 |
>
>No, they "tail spin"!!!! After "looping the loop", of course.
>
>Kirk
>66
>

Rutan planes are capable of "Tail Diving". And my favorite, Kirk, is
the dreaded "Cork-screw death spiral"

OK, enough of this silliness. :-) Let's all buy some books, profile our
wings, and watch the OLC postings of those that are getting to soar!

Steve

[TonyV]

sisu1a wrote:

> Since by definition half of everybody IS dumber than average, ......


We went through this already :-). No! That is the definition of median -
not average.

Given the (contrived) sample of 1,3,5,7,99, the average is
(1+3+5+7+99)/5 = 23. The median is 5 with half of the sample less, and
half of the sample more. Yeah, off topic, I know.

Tony V.

[Chris Reed[_2_]]

Could we perhaps be precise. Average could = mean, median or mode. It
does not always mean "mean". If it's not clear from context, say which.

By definition half of everybody is indeed dumber than average (sense,
median.

Also, by definition, it is likely that more than/less than everybody is
dumber than average (sense: median or mode).

Admittedly, mean is the commonest usage, but not the only one.

TonyV wrote:
> sisu1a wrote:
>
>> Since by definition half of everybody IS dumber than average, ......
>
>
> We went through this already :-). No! That is the definition of median -
> not average.
>
> Given the (contrived) sample of 1,3,5,7,99, the average is
> (1+3+5+7+99)/5 = 23. The median is 5 with half of the sample less, and
> half of the sample more. Yeah, off topic, I know.
>
> Tony V.

[kirk.stant]

Rutan planes are capable of "Tail Diving". *And my favorite, Kirk, is
> the dreaded "Cork-screw death spiral"
>
> OK, enough of this silliness. :-) *Let's all buy some books, profile our
> wings, and watch the OLC postings of those that are getting to soar!
>
> Steve

I tend to associate "tail diving" with what glider pilots hope to do
on Friday nights after getting lucky (!?) in the local bar....

Back to sanding the wings, metaphorically!

Cheers,

Kirk

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

Thanks; I'll try to remember all this the next time I'm trying to center
a thermal and a pee bottle at the same time.

At 11:36 14 November 2008, Chris Reed wrote:
>Could we perhaps be precise. Average could = mean, median or mode. It
>does not always mean "mean". If it's not clear from context, say
which.
>
>By definition half of everybody is indeed dumber than average (sense,
>median.
>
>Also, by definition, it is likely that more than/less than everybody is
>dumber than average (sense: median or mode).
>
>Admittedly, mean is the commonest usage, but not the only one.
>
>TonyV wrote:
>> sisu1a wrote:
>>
>>> Since by definition half of everybody IS dumber than average, ......
>>
>>
>> We went through this already :-). No! That is the definition of median
-
>
>> not average.
>>
>> Given the (contrived) sample of 1,3,5,7,99, the average is
>> (1+3+5+7+99)/5 = 23. The median is 5 with half of the sample less, and

>> half of the sample more. Yeah, off topic, I know.
>>
>> Tony V.
>

[[email protected]]

On Nov 13, 5:50*pm, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> On Nov 13, 2:24*pm, Martin Gregorie
>
> > wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:15:09 -0800, rlovinggood wrote:
> > > "...400 knot per hour..."
>
> > > Is that 400 nautical miles per hour squared?
>
> > > Reading that is as painful as hearing fingernails on a blackboard...
>
> > For me "nose dive" is a real irritant. The blasted plane is just diving
> > fer chrissakes. They seldom if ever "tail dive".
>
> > --
> > martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> > gregorie. | Essex, UK
> > org * * * |
>
> No, they "tail spin"!!!! *After "looping the loop", of course.
>
> Kirk
> 66

The "tail-spin" occurs as a result of inproper use of the rudder
"peddles" during a "flip".

[Andy[_1_]]

On Nov 13, 12:15*pm, Nyal Williams > wrote:
> Oh, now! *First off, it is heighth. *That is old-English, for those of you
> who didn't take your degrees in the humanities or read much in the King
> James Bible.


Interesting, thanks.

Andy

[[email protected]]

> Could we perhaps be precise. Average could = mean, median or mode. It
> does not always mean "mean". If it's not clear from context, say which.

Now, of course, one could be referencing a statistical distribution
that is symmetrical, say the Uniform or Normal distribution... In
which case, mean=median=mode.

If you're working with sample data from an unknown population
distribution, the distinction is important and often misused and
abused in order to influence others.