Objective Engine Discussion

[Rick Maddy]

I wish to begin gathering UNEMOTIONAL, tangible pros and cons on
engine choices for my Cozy Mk IV. I won't be ready to begin working on
my firewall for about 12 more months.

As I see it today I have the following engine choices:

Lycoming 360 or XP-360
Mazda 13B or Renesis
Jabiru 5100
Subaru ???

My background:

- I don't know squat about engines - all I know is that they are big,
heavy, expensive, you add gas and oil, and it makes the big fan go

Issues I DO NOT want to discuss at this time:

- Resale value
- Religious discussions of using "standard" aircraft engine vs. auto
conversion.

Here are some questions I have at this time:

1) Fuel - Can the XP-360 use autogas? Can the listed auto engines use
100LL? For those of you using an auto engine - how do you get autogas
to your plane?

2) While I hope to learn a lot more about my engine, whichever I
choose, I don't expect to learn enough to do all work myself when it
comes to maintenance. Obviously, the XP-360 can be repaired at most
airports. For those with auto engines, what options do you have for
repair?

3) Living in Denver, I expect to fly above 10,000' quite a bit. Am I
going to want a turbo auto engine? What is equivilent for the XP-360?

Here is my current list of Pros/Cons for XP-360 vs. auto engine:

XP-360

Pros: Fairly standard, mostly plans install. Improvement over true
Lycoming. Get repairs at most airports. Get 100LL any airport.
Cons: Expensive repairs.

Auto Engine

Pros: Newer technology. Much cheaper repair. Cheaper parts at local
auto parts store.
Cons: Smaller knowledge base. Huge deviation from plans install. Might
need custom cowling. Where to get repairs? Where to get gas?

Comparisons that I see as a wash:

- Initial installation costs will end up being about the same.
- Installed weight/CG will be about the same.
- I know nothing about either so I have the same amount to learn.

I'm sure I'm missing some things here (and that is why I'm asking for
help).

Again, please keep answers and suggestions as objective as possible. I
don't want to start religious battles with this thread.

Thank you all for the help.

__________________
Rick Maddy
Denver, CO
Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 19
http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy

[Rick Maddy]

> And what about a diesel?
> Especially as you are at some altitude?
> Initial cost is higher but running cost is lower.
> Any idea how many hours per year you'll fly?

Since posting my original message I've received comments about some
new Honda/Continental engine and references to the DeltaHawk Diesel.

I know nothing about either but I'm open to hearing about them.

Inform me :)

Rick

[Russell Kent]

Rick Maddy wrote:

> 1) Fuel - Can the XP-360 use autogas? Can the listed auto engines use
> 100LL? For those of you using an auto engine - how do you get autogas
> to your plane?

Since the engine is going into an experimental, you have the option of
de-certifying what would otherwise be considered a "certified" engine.
Many of the certified engines can be run on autogas, even when the
certified engine in a certified airframe cannot. Running on autogas can
significantly impact your hourly run rate, so this is an important thing
to get nailed down if you want to go with a Lycoming or Continental.

Auto engines can burn 100LL. The issue is (primarily) the posioning of
the oxygen sensor (O2 sensor). Some auto conversions retain the O2 sensor
while others do not. Since you said you don't know squat about engines,
I'll assume you're going to try to get a firewall forward package. Ask
the packager if 100LL is an issue.

As for getting autogas to the plane: some airports have autogas (check
your A/FD). Some people transport fuel to the plane in gas cans, and a
few hardy souls have crafted tankers to cart fuel to the plane. See Jay
Honeck's "Mighty Grape" in this forum (search Google Newsgroups) or Jim
Weir's fine 54 gallon fuel trailer plans in Kitplanes magazine (IIRC).


> XP-360
>
> Pros: Fairly standard, mostly plans install. Improvement over true
> Lycoming. Get repairs at most airports. Get 100LL any airport.
> Cons: Expensive repairs.
>
> Auto Engine
>
> Pros: Newer technology. Much cheaper repair. Cheaper parts at local
> auto parts store.
> Cons: Smaller knowledge base. Huge deviation from plans install. Might
> need custom cowling. Where to get repairs? Where to get gas?

If you go the auto conversion route, you are almost 100% certain to use a
water-cooled engine. This is always problematic since the airframe
designer almost never plans for radiators. And cooling on canards (like
the Cozy you're building) is a dicey proposition. You're opening a big
can of worms. Think long and hard about copying some other Cozy builder's
*successful* auto conversion.

> Comparisons that I see as a wash:
>
> - Initial installation costs will end up being about the same.

Not really. Out-of-pocket expense for a new turnkey certified engine will
be somewhat higher than those for a turnkey auto conversion, but the cost
in time spent re-engineering things to fit your airframe will be much
higher for the auto conversion. And the certified engine installation
will be alot more deterministic (less guessing and experimenting). What's
your time worth?

> - Installed weight/CG will be about the same.

If you're lucky/careful. If you're sloppy, the auto conversion will weigh
a ton. Beware.

> - I know nothing about either so I have the same amount to learn.

There's not much to learn (societally, not individually) about putting a
Lycoming or Continental in a Cozy: scores of builders have done it before
and the trail is well marked. Choose a Jaibiru, 13B, Chevy, Ford, or
Subaru and suddenly you're one of maybe a dozen (or less). Choose a
Renesis and you'll be the trailblazer (although you could probably copy
alot from a 13B).

Russell Kent

[Ernest Christley]

Rick Maddy wrote:

> 1) Fuel - Can the XP-360 use autogas? Can the listed auto engines use
> 100LL? For those of you using an auto engine - how do you get autogas
> to your plane?
>

100LL will kill the spark plugs in a 13B. The lead contaminates the
ceramic, limiting plug life to around 25hrs.

You're initial install for the 13B will be MUCH less expensive than a
XP-360.

You're initial learning curve and work load will be MUCH greater for a
13B than a XP-360. (Just about any plans you can buy will show a motor
mount and plumbing for the 360. You're on your own with the 13B, unless
you're building an RV.)

Read the 'fly rotary' mailing list archives to learn more than you'd
ever like about installing the 13B.

--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber

[Paul Lee]

I am just finishing up a SQ2000 canard - similar to a Mk IV -
and chose a 6 cyl Franklin 6A-350. It is comparable in weight and power
to a Lycoming XP-360 but considerably cheaper. Brand new certified
ones go for about $17K - plus accessories. I completely rebuilt mine
from a core for under $10K. The 6A-350 10.5/1 high compression makes
it good at higher altitudes. The US Franklin engine Co. was taken over
by a Polish company who build it there under US certification but
recently has been purchased by United Technologies (a US company).
More info at http://home.adelphia.net/~aeroengine/Franklin.html

One of the gripes I have with the Lycoming 360 4 cyl is that it is
a rough engine compared to any 6 cyl. The extra vibrations contribute
to engine mount and other parts failures. The big 6 cyl Lyc 540 is just
out of the league. The Continental IO-360 is also a 6 but somewhat
heavier than the Frankl 6A-350.

----------------------------------------------------
Paul Lee, SQ2000 canard project: www.abri.com/sq2000

(Rick Maddy) wrote in message >...
> I wish to begin gathering UNEMOTIONAL, tangible pros and cons on
> engine choices for my Cozy Mk IV. I won't be ready to begin working on
> my firewall for about 12 more months.
>
> As I see it today I have the following engine choices:
>
> Lycoming 360 or XP-360
> Mazda 13B or Renesis
> Jabiru 5100
> Subaru ???
>
> My background:
>
> - I don't know squat about engines - all I know is that they are big,
> heavy, expensive, you add gas and oil, and it makes the big fan go
>
> Issues I DO NOT want to discuss at this time:
>
> - Resale value
> - Religious discussions of using "standard" aircraft engine vs. auto
> conversion.
>
> Here are some questions I have at this time:
>
> 1) Fuel - Can the XP-360 use autogas? Can the listed auto engines use
> 100LL? For those of you using an auto engine - how do you get autogas
> to your plane?
>
> 2) While I hope to learn a lot more about my engine, whichever I
> choose, I don't expect to learn enough to do all work myself when it
> comes to maintenance. Obviously, the XP-360 can be repaired at most
> airports. For those with auto engines, what options do you have for
> repair?
>
> 3) Living in Denver, I expect to fly above 10,000' quite a bit. Am I
> going to want a turbo auto engine? What is equivilent for the XP-360?
>
> Here is my current list of Pros/Cons for XP-360 vs. auto engine:
>
> XP-360
>
> Pros: Fairly standard, mostly plans install. Improvement over true
> Lycoming. Get repairs at most airports. Get 100LL any airport.
> Cons: Expensive repairs.
>
> Auto Engine
>
> Pros: Newer technology. Much cheaper repair. Cheaper parts at local
> auto parts store.
> Cons: Smaller knowledge base. Huge deviation from plans install. Might
> need custom cowling. Where to get repairs? Where to get gas?
>
> Comparisons that I see as a wash:
>
> - Initial installation costs will end up being about the same.
> - Installed weight/CG will be about the same.
> - I know nothing about either so I have the same amount to learn.
>
> I'm sure I'm missing some things here (and that is why I'm asking for
> help).
>
> Again, please keep answers and suggestions as objective as possible. I
> don't want to start religious battles with this thread.
>
> Thank you all for the help.
>
> __________________
> Rick Maddy
> Denver, CO
> Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 19
> http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy

[Kyle Boatright]

"Rick Maddy" > wrote in message
om...
> I wish to begin gathering UNEMOTIONAL, tangible pros and cons on
> engine choices for my Cozy Mk IV. I won't be ready to begin working on
> my firewall for about 12 more months.
>
> As I see it today I have the following engine choices:
>
> Lycoming 360 or XP-360
> Mazda 13B or Renesis
> Jabiru 5100
> Subaru ???
>
> My background:
>
> - I don't know squat about engines - all I know is that they are big,
> heavy, expensive, you add gas and oil, and it makes the big fan go
>
> Issues I DO NOT want to discuss at this time:
>
> - Resale value
> - Religious discussions of using "standard" aircraft engine vs. auto
> conversion.
>
> Here are some questions I have at this time:
>
> 1) Fuel - Can the XP-360 use autogas? Can the listed auto engines use
> 100LL? For those of you using an auto engine - how do you get autogas
> to your plane?
>
> 2) While I hope to learn a lot more about my engine, whichever I
> choose, I don't expect to learn enough to do all work myself when it
> comes to maintenance. Obviously, the XP-360 can be repaired at most
> airports. For those with auto engines, what options do you have for
> repair?
>
> 3) Living in Denver, I expect to fly above 10,000' quite a bit. Am I
> going to want a turbo auto engine? What is equivilent for the XP-360?
>
> Here is my current list of Pros/Cons for XP-360 vs. auto engine:
>
> XP-360
>
> Pros: Fairly standard, mostly plans install. Improvement over true
> Lycoming. Get repairs at most airports. Get 100LL any airport.
> Cons: Expensive repairs.
>
> Auto Engine
>
> Pros: Newer technology. Much cheaper repair. Cheaper parts at local
> auto parts store.
> Cons: Smaller knowledge base. Huge deviation from plans install. Might
> need custom cowling. Where to get repairs? Where to get gas?
>
> Comparisons that I see as a wash:
>
> - Initial installation costs will end up being about the same.
> - Installed weight/CG will be about the same.
> - I know nothing about either so I have the same amount to learn.
>
> I'm sure I'm missing some things here (and that is why I'm asking for
> help).
>
> Again, please keep answers and suggestions as objective as possible. I
> don't want to start religious battles with this thread.
>
> Thank you all for the help.
>
> __________________
> Rick Maddy
> Denver, CO
> Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 19
> http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy


IF, as you say, you don't know "squat" about engines, you'll have a bad time
trying to engineer a custom engine installation. I know it is attractive to
think you can save money on the initial engine cost (or subsequent fuel
cost) by using an alternate engine instead of a lycoming 0-320 or 0-360.
However, if your goal is to build a flying, traveling, airplane, you'll be
happier with the lycoming. You won't have to engineer a custom engine
mount, custom cooling and fuel systems, custom cable routings, custom
electrical system, etc. You won't have to do the follow-on development work
when/if your engineering wasn't quite good enough and the engine didn't run
right on your first test flight. Also, with a lycoming, when it breaks (all
engines and/or systems do - usually in somewhere the other side of
Timbuktu), you will be able to call a dozen different vendors and get THE
part you need Fed-Ex'ed to you the next day.

I have an 0-320 in my RV-6, and missed SnF a couple of years ago because my
neato electronic ignition died the day before the show, and the only guy in
the world with replacement parts was already at the show. I couldn't get in
touch with him to diagnose the problem or have parts shipped. That's the
kind of thing you run into with oddball *critical* equipment on your
airplane...

A fellow EAA'er just spend a YEAR post first flight working out development
issues with his auto conversion. He had the engine and other systems
running on a bench several years before he went flying, and still had plenty
of difficulties. Unless you're a tinkerer, not a flyer, go with a fully
developed engine installation.

KB

[Barnyard BOb --]

>> Again, please keep answers and suggestions as objective as possible. I
>> don't want to start religious battles with this thread.
>>
>> Thank you all for the help.
>>
>> Rick Maddy

>
>IF, as you say, you don't know "squat" about engines, you'll have a bad time
>trying to engineer a custom engine installation. I know it is attractive to
>think you can save money on the initial engine cost (or subsequent fuel
>cost) by using an alternate engine instead of a lycoming 0-320 or 0-360.
>However, if your goal is to build a flying, traveling, airplane, you'll be
>happier with the lycoming. You won't have to engineer a custom engine
>mount, custom cooling and fuel systems, custom cable routings, custom
>electrical system, etc. You won't have to do the follow-on development work
>when/if your engineering wasn't quite good enough and the engine didn't run
>right on your first test flight. Also, with a lycoming, when it breaks (all
>engines and/or systems do - usually in somewhere the other side of
>Timbuktu), you will be able to call a dozen different vendors and get THE
>part you need Fed-Ex'ed to you the next day.
>
>I have an 0-320 in my RV-6, and missed SnF a couple of years ago because my
>neato electronic ignition died the day before the show, and the only guy in
>the world with replacement parts was already at the show. I couldn't get in
>touch with him to diagnose the problem or have parts shipped. That's the
>kind of thing you run into with oddball *critical* equipment on your
>airplane...
>
>A fellow EAA'er just spend a YEAR post first flight working out development
>issues with his auto conversion. He had the engine and other systems
>running on a bench several years before he went flying, and still had plenty
>of difficulties. Unless you're a tinkerer, not a flyer, go with a fully
>developed engine installation.

>KB
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

DAMN, Kyle !!!!
Have I died and gone to heaven? <g>


Barnyard BOb -- Over 50 years of flight

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:48:57 -0500, Barnyard BOb -- >
wrote:

>DAMN, Kyle !!!!
>Have I died and gone to heaven? <g>

Yes on one, no on two.

Ron "Laugh-a while you can, Monkey-Boy!" Wanttaja

[Barnyard BOb --]

>
>>DAMN, Kyle !!!!
>>Have I died and gone to heaven? <g>
>
>Yes on one, no on two.
>
>Ron "Laugh-a while you can, Monkey-Boy!" Wanttaja
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, Ron.
Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.

Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
while I have some positive momentum.

NAH....
No way. ;-)

Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs

[Kevin Horton]

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:02:28 -0500, Barnyard BOb -- wrote:

>
>
>>>DAMN, Kyle !!!!
>>>Have I died and gone to heaven? <g>
>>
>>Yes on one, no on two.
>>
>>Ron "Laugh-a while you can, Monkey-Boy!" Wanttaja
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Yes, Ron.
> Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.
>
> Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
> while I have some positive momentum.
>
> NAH....
> No way. ;-)
>
> Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs

I will admit that I was quite disturbed to find myself in agreement with
BOb for once. I'm hoping that means he is becoming more like me and not
the converse :)
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
e-mail: khorton02(_at_)rogers(_dot_)com

[warthog]

I am going to use a Corvair engine on my Zenith CH-601, you should at
least look into it.

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:26:02 GMT, "Kyle Boatright"
> wrote:

>
>"Rick Maddy" > wrote in message
om...
>> I wish to begin gathering UNEMOTIONAL, tangible pros and cons on
>> engine choices for my Cozy Mk IV. I won't be ready to begin working on
>> my firewall for about 12 more months.
>>
>> As I see it today I have the following engine choices:
>>
>> Lycoming 360 or XP-360
>> Mazda 13B or Renesis
>> Jabiru 5100
>> Subaru ???
>>
>> My background:
>>
>> - I don't know squat about engines - all I know is that they are big,
>> heavy, expensive, you add gas and oil, and it makes the big fan go
>>
>> Issues I DO NOT want to discuss at this time:
>>
>> - Resale value
>> - Religious discussions of using "standard" aircraft engine vs. auto
>> conversion.
>>
>> Here are some questions I have at this time:
>>
>> 1) Fuel - Can the XP-360 use autogas? Can the listed auto engines use
>> 100LL? For those of you using an auto engine - how do you get autogas
>> to your plane?
>>
>> 2) While I hope to learn a lot more about my engine, whichever I
>> choose, I don't expect to learn enough to do all work myself when it
>> comes to maintenance. Obviously, the XP-360 can be repaired at most
>> airports. For those with auto engines, what options do you have for
>> repair?
>>
>> 3) Living in Denver, I expect to fly above 10,000' quite a bit. Am I
>> going to want a turbo auto engine? What is equivilent for the XP-360?
>>
>> Here is my current list of Pros/Cons for XP-360 vs. auto engine:
>>
>> XP-360
>>
>> Pros: Fairly standard, mostly plans install. Improvement over true
>> Lycoming. Get repairs at most airports. Get 100LL any airport.
>> Cons: Expensive repairs.
>>
>> Auto Engine
>>
>> Pros: Newer technology. Much cheaper repair. Cheaper parts at local
>> auto parts store.
>> Cons: Smaller knowledge base. Huge deviation from plans install. Might
>> need custom cowling. Where to get repairs? Where to get gas?
>>
>> Comparisons that I see as a wash:
>>
>> - Initial installation costs will end up being about the same.
>> - Installed weight/CG will be about the same.
>> - I know nothing about either so I have the same amount to learn.
>>
>> I'm sure I'm missing some things here (and that is why I'm asking for
>> help).
>>
>> Again, please keep answers and suggestions as objective as possible. I
>> don't want to start religious battles with this thread.
>>
>> Thank you all for the help.
>>
>> __________________
>> Rick Maddy
>> Denver, CO
>> Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 19
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy
>
>
>IF, as you say, you don't know "squat" about engines, you'll have a bad time
>trying to engineer a custom engine installation. I know it is attractive to
>think you can save money on the initial engine cost (or subsequent fuel
>cost) by using an alternate engine instead of a lycoming 0-320 or 0-360.
>However, if your goal is to build a flying, traveling, airplane, you'll be
>happier with the lycoming. You won't have to engineer a custom engine
>mount, custom cooling and fuel systems, custom cable routings, custom
>electrical system, etc. You won't have to do the follow-on development work
>when/if your engineering wasn't quite good enough and the engine didn't run
>right on your first test flight. Also, with a lycoming, when it breaks (all
>engines and/or systems do - usually in somewhere the other side of
>Timbuktu), you will be able to call a dozen different vendors and get THE
>part you need Fed-Ex'ed to you the next day.
>
>I have an 0-320 in my RV-6, and missed SnF a couple of years ago because my
>neato electronic ignition died the day before the show, and the only guy in
>the world with replacement parts was already at the show. I couldn't get in
>touch with him to diagnose the problem or have parts shipped. That's the
>kind of thing you run into with oddball *critical* equipment on your
>airplane...
>
>A fellow EAA'er just spend a YEAR post first flight working out development
>issues with his auto conversion. He had the engine and other systems
>running on a bench several years before he went flying, and still had plenty
>of difficulties. Unless you're a tinkerer, not a flyer, go with a fully
>developed engine installation.
>
>KB
>
>
>

[RobertR237]

In article >, Barnyard BOb --
> writes:

>
>Yes, Ron.
>Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.
>
>Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
>while I have some positive momentum.
>
>NAH....
>No way. ;-)
>
>Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs
>
>

Don't you dare retire from RAH, who would we have to pick on then?


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[John Stricker]

It worked for me, Unk.

John Stricker

"Barnyard BOb --" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, Ron.
> Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.
>
> Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
> while I have some positive momentum.
>
> NAH....
> No way. ;-)
>
> Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Corky Scott]

On 3 Oct 2003 10:53:26 -0700, (Rick Maddy) wrote:

>I wish to begin gathering UNEMOTIONAL, tangible pros and cons on
>engine choices for my Cozy Mk IV. I won't be ready to begin working on
>my firewall for about 12 more months.
>
>As I see it today I have the following engine choices:
>
>Lycoming 360 or XP-360
>Mazda 13B or Renesis
>Jabiru 5100
>Subaru ???
>
>My background:
>
>- I don't know squat about engines - all I know is that they are big,
>heavy, expensive, you add gas and oil, and it makes the big fan go
>
>Issues I DO NOT want to discuss at this time:
>
>- Resale value
>- Religious discussions of using "standard" aircraft engine vs. auto
>conversion.
_______________
>Rick Maddy
>Denver, CO
>Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 19
>http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy

Rick, I'm the definative auto conversion believer and I'm recommending
you stay WAY away from anything like that. If you don't know and
intrinsically understand engines and how to work on them, you don't
want to be fooling with an auto conversion.

You want something with which you can swing in, bolt up, connect up
and go flying. That's not an auto conversion.

I'm an ex auto mechanic and am having lots of fun putting an engine
together right now, but that's my situation, not yours.

Corky Scott

[Barnyard BOb --]

>> Yes, Ron.
>> Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.
>>
>> Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
>> while I have some positive momentum.
>>
>> NAH....
>> No way. ;-)
>>
>> Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs


>It worked for me, Unk.
>
>John Stricker
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi nephew John,

Long time no hear.

I wuz thinking of you just yesterday when they
announced on TeeVee that a chopper with
7 souls aboard went down in Columbia MO.
So far, it appears to be a hoax.

P.S.
I'm embarrassed that you caught me cheering for YOUR Chiefs.
However, what a fabulously outstanding feetball game !!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe, it really is time to bow out and leave
the peckerwoods to feed on each other. <g>


Unk aka Barnyard BOb aka BOb U.

[Barnyard BOb --]

>Rick, I'm the definative auto conversion believer and I'm recommending
>you stay WAY away from anything like that. If you don't know and
>intrinsically understand engines and how to work on them, you don't
>want to be fooling with an auto conversion.
>
>You want something with which you can swing in, bolt up, connect up
>and go flying. That's not an auto conversion.
>
>I'm an ex auto mechanic and am having lots of fun putting an engine
>together right now, but that's my situation, not yours.
>
>Corky Scott
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Kudos., Corky.

This really needed to be said and is definitely
best said by someone like you or Bruce.


BTW....

definative = definitive


Barnyard BOb --

[Corky Scott]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:44:34 -0500, Barnyard BOb -- >
wrote:

>BTW....
>
>definative = definitive
>
>
>Barnyard BOb --
>
I said I was the definative auto engine conversion believer, not the
definitive auto conversion speller. <G>

Didn't learn my mulitplication tables well either.

Corky Scott

[RobertR237]

In article >,
(Corky Scott) writes:

>
>Rick, I'm the definative auto conversion believer and I'm recommending
>you stay WAY away from anything like that. If you don't know and
>intrinsically understand engines and how to work on them, you don't
>want to be fooling with an auto conversion.
>
>You want something with which you can swing in, bolt up, connect up
>and go flying. That's not an auto conversion.
>
>I'm an ex auto mechanic and am having lots of fun putting an engine
>together right now, but that's my situation, not yours.
>
>Corky Scott
>
>

Good and objective advice. I will add that if, as stated, you don't know squat
about engines then stick with a production style engine (xp360 or IO-360) which
can be serviced at any airport you are likely to encounter. You do not want to
set down in some out of the way airport with a Mazda, Subaru or other odd-ball
engine that YOU don't know how to work on and neither does anyone else at the
airport.

I am not a fanatic one way or the other about auto conversions but do believe
that you make your choice a logical on based on what you are capable of taking
care of. Putting an auto engine in an aircraft will require you to take more
of the burden of the installation and getting it right. It is not something
for someone who does not know what they are doing.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Snowbird]

"John Stricker" > wrote in message >...
> It worked for me, Unk.

Except of course when you air up your "re-tires" for
a drive-by posting

How's the plane building coming along in that gorgeous
shop o' yours? How's Chris's car? and did you finish
your CFI yet?

Cheers,
Sydney

[John Stricker]

Don't be embarrassed about cheering for my beloved Chiefs. Come out of the
closet once and for all. 8-) You should read the whining by the Donk fans
in the Chief's newsgroup. Priceless.

John "Long lost nephew" Stricker

"Barnyard BOb --" > wrote in message
...
>
> >> Yes, Ron.
> >> Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.
> >>
> >> Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
> >> while I have some positive momentum.
> >>
> >> NAH....
> >> No way. ;-)
> >>
> >> Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs
>
>
> >It worked for me, Unk.
> >
> >John Stricker
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Hi nephew John,
>
> Long time no hear.
>
> I wuz thinking of you just yesterday when they
> announced on TeeVee that a chopper with
> 7 souls aboard went down in Columbia MO.
> So far, it appears to be a hoax.
>
> P.S.
> I'm embarrassed that you caught me cheering for YOUR Chiefs.
> However, what a fabulously outstanding feetball game !!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Maybe, it really is time to bow out and leave
> the peckerwoods to feed on each other. <g>
>
>
> Unk aka Barnyard BOb aka BOb U.

[John Stricker]

Yes, been a long time with many miles beneath my feet, or something equally
cryptic.

I'm way past due to send some old friends an update on things. Think I'll
put that on tonight's list of things to do, as long as you promise to send a
new picture of the little Princess. 8-)

John Stricker

"Snowbird" > wrote in message
om...
> "John Stricker" > wrote in message
>...
> > It worked for me, Unk.
>
> Except of course when you air up your "re-tires" for
> a drive-by posting
>
> How's the plane building coming along in that gorgeous
> shop o' yours? How's Chris's car? and did you finish
> your CFI yet?
>
> Cheers,
> Sydney

[Carl gonzo johansson]

How come you are not bragging about those feared previously rated
number 7 Jayhawks - Oh ya - you know the ones who are scared to play
any true college teams - so they end up playing sister maries home
for the blind and quadroplegic!

As I recall you won that one when a blind paraplegic blocked a last
second field goal - but alas - ran the wrong way toward the KState
goal - encouraged by 85,000 drunken yahoos with no morals and very
little clean underwear between them!

Check out the saltflats racing association you yahoo. look at the 130
MPH club - you will find 3 generations of Johanssons made it this
year - including the oldest guy to ever do it - my dad - 73 years
old - and the youngest ever - my nephew.

hpe your laying in gruel for the winter you schmuck
Gonzo

PS - I wont reply for 4 days - I'm going elk hunting


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:39:49 -0500, "John Stricker"
> wrote:

>Don't be embarrassed about cheering for my beloved Chiefs. Come out of the
>closet once and for all. 8-) You should read the whining by the Donk fans
>in the Chief's newsgroup. Priceless.
>
>John "Long lost nephew" Stricker
>
>"Barnyard BOb --" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> >> Yes, Ron.
>> >> Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
>> >> while I have some positive momentum.
>> >>
>> >> NAH....
>> >> No way. ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs
>>
>>
>> >It worked for me, Unk.
>> >
>> >John Stricker
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> Hi nephew John,
>>
>> Long time no hear.
>>
>> I wuz thinking of you just yesterday when they
>> announced on TeeVee that a chopper with
>> 7 souls aboard went down in Columbia MO.
>> So far, it appears to be a hoax.
>>
>> P.S.
>> I'm embarrassed that you caught me cheering for YOUR Chiefs.
>> However, what a fabulously outstanding feetball game !!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Maybe, it really is time to bow out and leave
>> the peckerwoods to feed on each other. <g>
>>
>>
>> Unk aka Barnyard BOb aka BOb U.
>
>

[Barnyard BOb --]

>hpe your laying in gruel for the winter you schmuck
>Gonzo
>
>PS - I wont reply for 4 days - I'm going elk hunting
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There's a cure for that.
Elkaholics anonymous.

P.S.
When you get back, Gonz...
howz 'bout sending your latest email address my way.
Seems your old one is bouncing higher than your checks.

P.P.S.
Lay off nephew Steakbreath.
He's only posting once every two years now.


Barnyard BOb --

[John Stricker]

If Gonzo took the time to actually WRITE (it seems those remedial reading
classes DO work after all) then I'll even post one more time.

I feel it's my responsibility to point out to you, again, for the
elleventy-seventh consecutive year, that the JAYHAWKS are KU (that's the
University of KS) and they haven't been ranked in the top 25 in the last 30
years. Although if they pull off a miracle and beat Colorado Saturday, they
might even break THAT trend.

The team I root for here in KS is Kansas State University, KSU, WILDCATS.
They were ranked 7th, now something in the high teens, I think. I thought
all along they were a bit over-rated this year. Trading on a very good QB
who played his first game in a month last week after breaking a hand.

Saltflats racing association? Don't you mean SCTA? They're the official
body for the timing at Bonneville. Or don't you even know which record
books to look it up in? Maybe that remedial reading course isn't working so
well after all............. 130 miles an hour? I set the cruise on the
Grand Am at higher than that going across Nevada in '79. The only thing
that passed me was a Nevada Highway Patrol Trooper who was late for a donut
and BJ at the truck stop. You'll have to do better than that.

You coming to shoot pheasant this year or are you going to be a big pussy
again (like every other year)? I know, you're afraid to be humiliated by
someone with one eye. Be a frigging man!! Quit hiding out there with the
vultures and Gila monsters! Finally get potty trained!!

John Stricker

"Carl "gonzo" johansson" > wrote in message
...
> How come you are not bragging about those feared previously rated
> number 7 Jayhawks - Oh ya - you know the ones who are scared to play
> any true college teams - so they end up playing sister maries home
> for the blind and quadroplegic!
>
> As I recall you won that one when a blind paraplegic blocked a last
> second field goal - but alas - ran the wrong way toward the KState
> goal - encouraged by 85,000 drunken yahoos with no morals and very
> little clean underwear between them!
>
> Check out the saltflats racing association you yahoo. look at the 130
> MPH club - you will find 3 generations of Johanssons made it this
> year - including the oldest guy to ever do it - my dad - 73 years
> old - and the youngest ever - my nephew.
>
> hpe your laying in gruel for the winter you schmuck
> Gonzo
>
> PS - I wont reply for 4 days - I'm going elk hunting
>
>
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:39:49 -0500, "John Stricker"
> > wrote:
>
> >Don't be embarrassed about cheering for my beloved Chiefs. Come out of
the
> >closet once and for all. 8-) You should read the whining by the Donk
fans
> >in the Chief's newsgroup. Priceless.
> >
> >John "Long lost nephew" Stricker
> >
> >"Barnyard BOb --" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> >> Yes, Ron.
> >> >> Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.
> >> >>
> >> >> Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
> >> >> while I have some positive momentum.
> >> >>
> >> >> NAH....
> >> >> No way. ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >> Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs
> >>
> >>
> >> >It worked for me, Unk.
> >> >
> >> >John Stricker
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >> Hi nephew John,
> >>
> >> Long time no hear.
> >>
> >> I wuz thinking of you just yesterday when they
> >> announced on TeeVee that a chopper with
> >> 7 souls aboard went down in Columbia MO.
> >> So far, it appears to be a hoax.
> >>
> >> P.S.
> >> I'm embarrassed that you caught me cheering for YOUR Chiefs.
> >> However, what a fabulously outstanding feetball game !!!!!!!!!!!
> >>
> >> Maybe, it really is time to bow out and leave
> >> the peckerwoods to feed on each other. <g>
> >>
> >>
> >> Unk aka Barnyard BOb aka BOb U.
> >
> >
>

[dann mann]

Corky
I am very curious about your efforts to power a plane with a car engine.
I assume you have done some test mount runups and have videotaped the
starting and shutdown. As an old model airplane flier and tinkerer I
would love to see how these things swing a prop.

[Carl gonzo johansson]

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:23:36 -0700 (PDT), (dann
mann) wrote:
well my names not Corky - and while I did have a Suburu setup inmy
avid - I'm talking about landbased speed here! 82 corvette with 360
HP

Carl "flying under the radar " Johansson

>Corky
>I am very curious about your efforts to power a plane with a car engine.
>I assume you have done some test mount runups and have videotaped the
>starting and shutdown. As an old model airplane flier and tinkerer I
>would love to see how these things swing a prop.
>
>
>
>

[Carl gonzo johansson]

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:07:35 -0500, "John Stricker"
> wrote:

A bunch of whinney applogist excuses clipped out.
>
>Saltflats racing association? Don't you mean SCTA? They're the official
>body for the timing at Bonneville. Or don't you even know which record
>books to look it up in? Maybe that remedial reading course isn't working so
>well after all.............
Actually SCTA (so. Cal. Timing association) is a different
organization. They hold various events on the Salt flats also. But
this org is Utah salt flats association,
> 130 miles an hour? I set the cruise on the
>Grand Am at higher than that going across Nevada in '79. The only thing
>that passed me was a Nevada Highway Patrol Trooper who was late for a donut
>and BJ at the truck stop. You'll have to do better than that.

Yup every body says it's easy - you get 1 mile run up from a standing
start - then go through a 132 ft trap at the end. You loose 10 % to
the salt - most think it's loss of traction - essentially you need
to be indicating 145 when you go through the traps. Seems easy enough
- wonder why only about 5% - 10%of those who try actually make it?
Go to :
http://www.saltflats.com/index.html
Look at the daily run sheets for the 130 MPH club - you will se my 2
brothers made it on Saturday - and myself as well as my brothers son
and my 73 year old father made it on sunday (you will see the 2
qualifying runs listed by names.)
>
>You coming to shoot pheasant this year or are you going to be a big pussy
>again (like every other year)?
Whens the season? You got Birds?
> I know, you're afraid to be humiliated by
>someone with one eye. Be a frigging man!! Quit hiding out there with the
>vultures and Gila monsters! Finally get potty trained!!

While potty training is indeed a prerequisite to live in California -
according to the Encyclopedia Britanica: Kans - ass is one of 3 states
(and we use the term loosely) that does not require that their adult
citizens be Potty trained. Thats why the discount Depends issue is
such a political hot button item in all of your state's elections!

Carl"wasting my time" Johansson
>
>John Stricker
>
>"Carl "gonzo" johansson" > wrote in message
...
>> How come you are not bragging about those feared previously rated
>> number 7 Jayhawks - Oh ya - you know the ones who are scared to play
>> any true college teams - so they end up playing sister maries home
>> for the blind and quadroplegic!
>>
>> As I recall you won that one when a blind paraplegic blocked a last
>> second field goal - but alas - ran the wrong way toward the KState
>> goal - encouraged by 85,000 drunken yahoos with no morals and very
>> little clean underwear between them!
>>
>> Check out the saltflats racing association you yahoo. look at the 130
>> MPH club - you will find 3 generations of Johanssons made it this
>> year - including the oldest guy to ever do it - my dad - 73 years
>> old - and the youngest ever - my nephew.
>>
>> hpe your laying in gruel for the winter you schmuck
>> Gonzo
>>
>> PS - I wont reply for 4 days - I'm going elk hunting
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:39:49 -0500, "John Stricker"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Don't be embarrassed about cheering for my beloved Chiefs. Come out of
>the
>> >closet once and for all. 8-) You should read the whining by the Donk
>fans
>> >in the Chief's newsgroup. Priceless.
>> >
>> >John "Long lost nephew" Stricker
>> >
>> >"Barnyard BOb --" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >> >> Yes, Ron.
>> >> >> Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH
>> >> >> while I have some positive momentum.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> NAH....
>> >> >> No way. ;-)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >It worked for me, Unk.
>> >> >
>> >> >John Stricker
>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>
>> >> Hi nephew John,
>> >>
>> >> Long time no hear.
>> >>
>> >> I wuz thinking of you just yesterday when they
>> >> announced on TeeVee that a chopper with
>> >> 7 souls aboard went down in Columbia MO.
>> >> So far, it appears to be a hoax.
>> >>
>> >> P.S.
>> >> I'm embarrassed that you caught me cheering for YOUR Chiefs.
>> >> However, what a fabulously outstanding feetball game !!!!!!!!!!!
>> >>
>> >> Maybe, it really is time to bow out and leave
>> >> the peckerwoods to feed on each other. <g>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Unk aka Barnyard BOb aka BOb U.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>