Paint question

[Brian Bange[_2_]]

I just bought an ASW20B that was refinished in DuPont Imron back in '93 by
Fred Jiran. The paint is in surprisingly good condition for its age, but
there are lots of small spots where hangar rash needs to be fixed. There
are also some slight dings in the wing skins on the bottom that will
eventually need to be smoothed and painted over. Two questions:
1. Can I use PPG Concept over the Imron?
2. How do I blend the spray edges into the Imron for a seamless finish?

Brian Bange

[[email protected]]

On Nov 13, 4:45*pm, Brian Bange > wrote:
> I just bought an ASW20B that was refinished in DuPont Imron back in '93 by
> Fred Jiran. The paint is in surprisingly good condition for its age, but
> there are lots of small spots where hangar rash needs to be fixed. There
> are also some slight dings in the wing skins on the bottom that will
> eventually need to be smoothed and painted over. Two questions:
> 1. Can I use PPG Concept over the Imron?
> 2. How do I blend the spray edges into the Imron for a seamless finish?
>
> Brian Bange

Your best bet for minor stuff is just do in Imron.
Paint blending is enough of a trick that if you have to ask the
question, you likely will have problems.
Touch up problems as carefully as you can, then color sand and polish
back.
Beware of toxcity of any of these paints- they are tough on brain
cells.
Good Luck
UH

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Nov 13, 2:34*pm, wrote:
> On Nov 13, 4:45*pm, Brian Bange > wrote:
>
> > I just bought an ASW20B that was refinished in DuPont Imron back in '93 by
> > Fred Jiran. The paint is in surprisingly good condition for its age, but
> > there are lots of small spots where hangar rash needs to be fixed. There
> > are also some slight dings in the wing skins on the bottom that will
> > eventually need to be smoothed and painted over. Two questions:
> > 1. Can I use PPG Concept over the Imron?
> > 2. How do I blend the spray edges into the Imron for a seamless finish?
>
> > Brian Bange
>
> Your best bet for minor stuff is just do in Imron.
> Paint blending is enough of a trick that if you have to ask the
> question, you likely will have problems.
> Touch up problems as carefully as you can, then color sand and polish
> back.
> Beware of toxcity of any of these paints- they are tough on brain
> cells.
> Good Luck
> UH

A couple weeks ago I needed some Imron for a touchup job. I don't
know if it is common practice, but my paint supplier sold me a 2 oz.
(more than enough) bottle for $10.00. A Quart would have been $97.00
+ the hardener/catalyst.

[JJ Sinclair]

> 1. Can I use PPG Concept over the Imron?

I'd stick with the paint that's on there (Imron)

> 2. How do I blend the spray edges into the Imron for a seamless finish?

Hi Brian,
Blending paint is a difficult proposition at best. The first issue is
color match, Imron shouldn't fade, but get the original color if you
can find it (should be in the log book). Then try a little spot (dab
from your pinkie) to see how it looks, remember it will dry a tad
darker than the wet color. The area where the paint is to go must be
lightly sanded, go beyond the intended paint area a good 6 inches in
all directions with 220 dry sanding. Then mask at the edge of your
extended sanding. The trick is to never touch the masking tape with
sprayed paint or you will build up a lip and when trying to wet-sand-
out this lip, you will sand too deep on the original paint and start
to show the underlying primer. Ugh, I hate it when that happens! Only
thing to do then is to expand your paint area another 6", re-mask and
paint again. If you do it right the first time, the over-spray will
fall well short of the masked area and is easily wet-sanded out with
600 wet, followed by 800 wet, then buff after 3 days of paint curing
time.
Good luck, it only took me 30 years to figure out the above and don't
ask me to do it voluntarily.

Aircraft are designed by geniuses to be flown by idiots!
JJ

[Brad[_2_]]

On Nov 13, 1:45*pm, Brian Bange > wrote:
> I just bought an ASW20B that was refinished in DuPont Imron back in '93 by
> Fred Jiran. The paint is in surprisingly good condition for its age, but
> there are lots of small spots where hangar rash needs to be fixed. There
> are also some slight dings in the wing skins on the bottom that will
> eventually need to be smoothed and painted over. Two questions:
> 1. Can I use PPG Concept over the Imron?
> 2. How do I blend the spray edges into the Imron for a seamless finish?
>
> Brian Bange

Brian............what happened to SIFOW??

Brad

[Frank Whiteley]

On Nov 14, 7:37*am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> > 1. Can I use PPG Concept over the Imron?
>
> I'd stick with the paint that's on there (Imron)
>
> > 2. How do I blend the spray edges into the Imron for a seamless finish?
>
> Hi Brian,
> Blending paint is a difficult proposition at best. The first issue is
> color match, Imron shouldn't fade, but get the original color if you
> can find it (should be in the log book). Then try a little spot (dab
> from your pinkie) to see how it looks, remember it will dry a tad
> darker than the wet color. The area where the paint is to go must be
> lightly sanded, go beyond the intended paint area a good 6 inches in
> all directions with 220 dry sanding. Then mask at the edge of your
> extended sanding. The trick is to never touch the masking tape with
> sprayed paint or you will build up a lip and when trying to wet-sand-
> out this lip, you will sand too deep on the original paint and start
> to show the underlying primer. Ugh, I hate it when that happens! Only
> thing to do then is to expand your paint area another 6", re-mask and
> paint again. If you do it right the first time, the over-spray will
> fall well short of the masked area and is easily wet-sanded out with
> 600 wet, followed by 800 wet, then buff after 3 days of paint curing
> time.
> Good luck, it only took me 30 years to figure out the above and don't
> ask me to do it voluntarily.
>
> Aircraft are designed by geniuses to be flown by idiots!
> JJ

IMVHO, color matching Imron is extremely difficult. There are more
Imron whites on the color chart than I would have ever imagined. When
it came time to touch up the Imron on a glider I once owned, there was
no color info in the logbook, only the Imron entry. I got the color
chart and had a half a dozen female/male persons attempt to match it
under natural light. Depending on whether the sun was on the wing or
under cloud shadow, they narrowed it to two tints. I went with the
best four of six, a committee decision, on which was the right tint.
Turned out slightly bluer than the original. The other tint was
slightly grayer and may have ultimately been a better match. All I
can say is good luck. A BGA senior inspector one said anyone painting
a glider should use only base white, that tinting only causes
problems.

Frank Whiteley

[Udo Rumpf[_2_]]

At 14:37 14 November 2008, JJ Sinclair wrote:
>> 1. Can I use PPG Concept over the Imron?
>
>I'd stick with the paint that's on there (Imron)
>
>> 2. How do I blend the spray edges into the Imron for a seamless
finish?
>
>Hi Brian,
>Blending paint is a difficult proposition at best. The first issue is
>color match, Imron shouldn't fade, but get the original color if you
>can find it (should be in the log book). Then try a little spot (dab
>from your pinkie) to see how it looks, remember it will dry a tad
>darker than the wet color. The area where the paint is to go must be
>lightly sanded, go beyond the intended paint area a good 6 inches in
>all directions with 220 dry sanding. Then mask at the edge of your
>extended sanding. The trick is to never touch the masking tape with
>sprayed paint or you will build up a lip and when trying to wet-sand-
>out this lip, you will sand too deep on the original paint and start
>to show the underlying primer. Ugh, I hate it when that happens! Only
>thing to do then is to expand your paint area another 6", re-mask and
>paint again. If you do it right the first time, the over-spray will
>fall well short of the masked area and is easily wet-sanded out with
>600 wet, followed by 800 wet, then buff after 3 days of paint curing
>time.
>Good luck, it only took me 30 years to figure out the above and don't
>ask me to do it voluntarily.
>
>Aircraft are designed by geniuses to be flown by idiots!
>JJ

Just one other suggestion that I find helpful.
Once the steps are followed, that JJ outlined , add making tape around the
masked off area and form a 1/2" high wall by curling the edge of the
masking tape up. It act as a (blow back) deflector which helps prevent a
paint edge from forming.
Udo

[Brian Bange[_2_]]

At 14:57 14 November 2008, Brad wrote:
>On Nov 13, 1:45=A0pm, Brian Bange wrote:
>> I just bought an ASW20B that was refinished in DuPont Imron back in
'93
>Brian............what happened to SIFOW??
>
>Brad
>
Brad,
The Russia is a great ship, and worked well down on the Gulf coast where
it is flat and there are lots of landing options. This past season I
started flying in the Texas Hill Country. I found that it takes a really
booming day (or some really big cahones) to go deep into it with a 31:1
ship. I found it interesting that the distributor of Anteres found the
Hill Country intimidating in his 20 meter motor glider. Imagine how I feel
in a Russia!
Brian

[Brad[_2_]]

On Nov 14, 1:15*pm, Brian Bange > wrote:
> At 14:57 14 November 2008, Brad wrote:>On Nov 13, 1:45=A0pm, Brian Bange *wrote:
> >> I just bought an ASW20B that was refinished in DuPont Imron back in
> '93
> >Brian............what happened to SIFOW??
>
> >Brad
>
> Brad,
> The Russia is a great ship, and worked well down on the Gulf coast where
> it is flat and there are lots of landing options. This past season I
> started flying in the Texas Hill Country. I found that it takes a really
> booming day (or some really big cahones) *to go deep into it with a 31:1
> ship. I found it interesting that the distributor of Anteres found the
> Hill Country intimidating in his 20 meter motor glider. Imagine how I feel
> in a Russia!
> Brian

Hi Brian,

I know exactly how you feel. All my flying buddies are in 15m or
longer winged ships. While I really love my Apis, I am in pursuit of a
15m ship myself.

That being said, I totally agree that the Russia was a great little
ship! I see that the one I built is up for sale too, guess
why.............all his buddies fly long wingers too in Texas!

Cheers,
Brad

[Brian Bange[_2_]]

At 15:30 14 November 2008, Udo Rumpf wrote:
>At 14:37 14 November 2008, JJ Sinclair wrote:
>>> 1. Can I use PPG Concept over the Imron?
>>
>>I'd stick with the paint that's on there (Imron)
>>
>>> 2. How do I blend the spray edges into the Imron for a seamless
>finish?
>>
>>Hi Brian,
>>Blending paint is a difficult proposition at best. The first issue is
>>color match, Imron shouldn't fade, but get the original color if you
>>can find it (should be in the log book). Then try a little spot (dab
>>from your pinkie) to see how it looks, remember it will dry a tad
>>darker than the wet color. The area where the paint is to go must be
>>lightly sanded, go beyond the intended paint area a good 6 inches in
>>all directions with 220 dry sanding. Then mask at the edge of your
>>extended sanding. The trick is to never touch the masking tape with
>>sprayed paint or you will build up a lip and when trying to wet-sand-
>>out this lip, you will sand too deep on the original paint and start
>>to show the underlying primer. Ugh, I hate it when that happens! Only
>>thing to do then is to expand your paint area another 6", re-mask and
>>paint again. If you do it right the first time, the over-spray will
>>fall well short of the masked area and is easily wet-sanded out with
>>600 wet, followed by 800 wet, then buff after 3 days of paint curing
>>time.
>>Good luck, it only took me 30 years to figure out the above and don't
>>ask me to do it voluntarily.
>>
>>Aircraft are designed by geniuses to be flown by idiots!
>>JJ
>
>Just one other suggestion that I find helpful.
>Once the steps are followed, that JJ outlined , add making tape around
the
>masked off area and form a 1/2" high wall by curling the edge of the
>masking tape up. It act as a (blow back) deflector which helps prevent a
>paint edge from forming.
>Udo
>
>
Thanks all. I will go with the Imron. I think Fred put the paint number in
the log book. I have a quart of PPG Concept from my last ship. I guess that
will go in the trash. Shame @ $400/gal. The info about the paint edge is
priceless. Many, many thanks.

Brian

[Brian Bange[_2_]]

>That being said, I totally agree that the Russia was a great little
>ship! I see that the one I built is up for sale too, guess
>why.............all his buddies fly long wingers too in Texas!
>
>Cheers,
>Brad
>
>
Brad,

I'm one of those buddies. I've flown many hundreds of miles side by side
with your old ship. A friend and I team flew X/C for several years in the
Russias. Major enjoyment for very few $$$! Let's hope the '20 turns out
to be as much fun.

Brian

[Brad[_2_]]

On Nov 14, 3:15*pm, Brian Bange > wrote:
> >That being said, I totally agree that the Russia was a great little
> >ship! I see that the one I built is up for sale too, guess
> >why.............all his buddies fly long wingers too in Texas!
>
> >Cheers,
> >Brad
>
> Brad,
>
> I'm one of those buddies. I've flown many hundreds of miles side by side
> with your old ship. A friend and I team flew X/C for several years in the
> Russias. Major enjoyment for very few $$$! Let's hope the '20 turns out
> to be as much fun.
>
> Brian

Oh? very cool!
I heard that he did some cockpit improvements etc...........

Bet you really enjoy the long legs the -20 will give you.

I am working with Bob K on the HP-24 and should have one flying by
2010

Brad

BTW............how did those blue tips do in the Texas sun??

[DRN]

On Nov 14, 4:15*pm, Brian Bange > wrote:
> This past season I
> started flying in the Texas Hill Country. I found that it takes a really
> booming day (or some really big cahones) *to go deep into it with a 31:1
> ship. I found it interesting that the distributor of Anteres found the
> Hill Country intimidating in his 20 meter motor glider. Imagine how I feel
> in a Russia!
> Brian

Its not intimidating if you don't look down.
See ya, Dave "YO electric"

PS: That's "Antares 20E"...
http://www.nadler.com/public/Bob_Rasa_UvaldeGliders019.jpg