Glider flight software on non PDA devices- soon.

[brianDG303]

Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's we
get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
(Travel Companion) family.

These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
tall.

Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970 and
the same brightness as most other automotive GPS’s. There are other
advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.

Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site.

PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
so this is another possibility for gliders.

Brian

[Richard[_1_]]

On Nov 16, 10:51*pm, brianDG303 > wrote:
> Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
> hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's we
> get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
> some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
> (Travel Companion) family.
>
> These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
> There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
> information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
> little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
> The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
> tall.
>
> *Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970 and
> the same brightness as most other automotive GPS’s. There are other
> advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
> of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
> light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
> screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
> mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
> adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.
>
> Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
> HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
> adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
> comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site.
>
> PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
> everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
> run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
> candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
> they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
> PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
> know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
> corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
> mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
> like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
> not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
> people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
> so this is another possibility for gliders.
>
> Brian

Brian,

I have a Ipaq 310 running SeeYou Mobile. SeeYou Mobile runs from the
SD Card so you can still use the Street Map Software on the 310. The
screen visibility in my opinion in direct sunlight is no better that
the Ipaq 55xx or 47xx. It has VGA resolution like the Ipaq 4700. You
can tilt the instrument to reduce the glare, but you can also do that
with the Ipaq 4700. The program runs well because of the 600 mHz
processor. I also have concerns as the 310 only has a landscape mode.
You cannot see very far ahead. I checked with HP to see about
Portrait. They said NO. Maybe they will change in the future. I
beleive it is an excellent cost effective option for those that don't
have a GPS. Its internal GPS runs fine in the Auto and should do well
in a glider. Unfortunately it does not have a serial port only USB so
maybe a USB to serial converter may work.

I will be adding mounts and cable kits to my website so you can power
the 310 from your glider battery.

If you really want to see the screen please see the Craggy Aero
Ultimate.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm


Thanks,

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Peter Wyld[_2_]]

At 14:45 17 November 2008, Richard wrote:
>On Nov 16, 10:51=A0pm, brianDG303 wrote:
>> Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
>> hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's
we
>> get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
>> some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
>> (Travel Companion) family.
>>
>> These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
>> There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
>> information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
>> little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
>> The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
>> tall.
>>
>> =A0Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970
and
>> the same brightness as most other automotive GPS=92s. There are other
>> advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
>> of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
>> light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
>> screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
>> mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
>> adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.
>>
>> Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
>> HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
>> adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
>> comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site.
>>
>> PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
>> everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
>> run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
>> candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
>> they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
>> PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
>> know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
>> corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
>> mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
>> like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
>> not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
>> people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
>> so this is another possibility for gliders.
>>
>> Brian
>
>Brian,
>
>I have a Ipaq 310 running SeeYou Mobile. SeeYou Mobile runs from the
>SD Card so you can still use the Street Map Software on the 310. The
>screen visibility in my opinion in direct sunlight is no better that
>the Ipaq 55xx or 47xx. It has VGA resolution like the Ipaq 4700. You
>can tilt the instrument to reduce the glare, but you can also do that
>with the Ipaq 4700. The program runs well because of the 600 mHz
>processor. I also have concerns as the 310 only has a landscape mode.
>You cannot see very far ahead. I checked with HP to see about
>Portrait. They said NO. Maybe they will change in the future. I
>beleive it is an excellent cost effective option for those that don't
>have a GPS. Its internal GPS runs fine in the Auto and should do well
>in a glider. Unfortunately it does not have a serial port only USB so
>maybe a USB to serial converter may work.
>
>I will be adding mounts and cable kits to my website so you can power
>the 310 from your glider battery.
>
>If you really want to see the screen please see the Craggy Aero
>Ultimate.
>
>http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Richard
>www.craggyaero.com
>
>
>

The USB - serial thing won't work unless this device is a Host/Master
device. PDAs etc. are normally Guest/Slave devices, PCs are Host/Master
devices.

[Richard[_1_]]

On Nov 17, 8:30*am, Peter Wyld > wrote:
> At 14:45 17 November 2008, Richard wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Nov 16, 10:51=A0pm, brianDG303 *wrote:
> >> Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
> >> hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's
> we
> >> get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
> >> some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
> >> (Travel Companion) family.
>
> >> These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
> >> There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
> >> information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
> >> little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
> >> The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
> >> tall.
>
> >> =A0Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970
> and
> >> the same brightness as most other automotive GPS=92s. There are other
> >> advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
> >> of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
> >> light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
> >> screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
> >> mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
> >> adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.
>
> >> Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
> >> HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
> >> adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
> >> comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site.
>
> >> PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
> >> everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
> >> run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
> >> candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
> >> they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
> >> PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
> >> know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
> >> corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
> >> mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
> >> like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
> >> not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
> >> people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
> >> so this is another possibility for gliders.
>
> >> Brian
>
> >Brian,
>
> >I have a Ipaq 310 running SeeYou Mobile. *SeeYou Mobile runs from the
> >SD Card so you can still use the Street Map Software on the 310. * The
> >screen visibility in my opinion in direct sunlight is no better that
> >the Ipaq 55xx or 47xx. It has VGA resolution like the Ipaq 4700. * You
> >can tilt the instrument to reduce the glare, but you can also do that
> >with the Ipaq 4700. *The program runs well because of the 600 mHz
> >processor. I also have concerns as the 310 only has a landscape mode.
> >You cannot see very far ahead. * I checked with HP to see about
> >Portrait. *They said NO. *Maybe they will change in the future. * I
> >beleive it is an excellent cost effective option for those that don't
> >have a GPS. *Its internal GPS runs fine in the Auto and should do well
> >in a glider. *Unfortunately it does not have a serial port only USB so
> >maybe a USB to serial converter may work.
>
> >I will be adding *mounts and cable kits to my website so you can power
> >the 310 from your glider battery.
>
> >If you really want to see the screen please see the Craggy Aero
> >Ultimate.
>
> >http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm
>
> >Thanks,
>
> >Richard
> >www.craggyaero.com
>
> The USB - serial thing won't work unless this device is a Host/Master
> device. PDAs etc. are normally Guest/Slave devices, PCs are Host/Master
> devices.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Peter,

Do you think a serial to bluetooth converter would work? Bluetooth to
the PDA. The converter would be on a CAI 302 or Borgelt B500.
Still we would need a cable to power the Ipaq device from the glider
battery.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[brianDG303]

Hi Richard,
I’m surprised you feel the 4700 and the 310 are similar in direct sun.
I find the 310 so much better.
I rigged up a jig using a Littlemore Scientific architectural light
meter (reads out in LUX) that I could use to measure light output. I
get 60 or 70 LUX from an IPAQ 3970 and 270 to 300 LUX from the 310. I
also have Garmin NUVI 260 GPS and I get the same 270 to 300 reading
from that, the rumor is that TomTom units are a little less bright but
I don't have one to test. The point is that most GPS units you run
across are probably about as bright and as direct sunlight readable as
the 310, so all you have to do is borrow one from a friend and you can
do the PDA/GPS comparison yourself. The 310 isn’t perfect, just lots
better.

I don’t think the 310 can be made to run in Portrait but there will be
other, similar devices that will. For instance, the MIO C520. And a
lot more coming, these are just the first in a wave of new gadgets.

Don’t forget Serial to Bluetooth adapters which seem to be working as
input to the 310. Output may be another story.

You are right about cost effective, $180 is very effective. With the
money you save you can buy the more expensive ZAON XRX and a bluetooth
adapter and, if as I suspect SeeYou someday has the feature, you could
display inbound threats on the screen in their relative location.
Already this is working with FLARM.

As far as the Ultimate and the Clearnav, these are not options for me.
I simply CAN’T mount them in my glider, don’t have the room. I did try
to buy an early Clearnav with the idea of rigging some kind of mount
that would allow it to be swung up and lay flat on top of the glare
shield. The ClearNav and Ultimate screen are just too big for my plane
and also too big for my needs, I really want very little from a flight
computer other than my arrival altitude at various landing points and
the bearing/distance to those places. If I decide I want more
information from a larger screen, one option would be to mount two HP
310’s (I think of that option as a "Ramm Mount"). If I had a Stemme
and a huge panel I would put in an Ultimate in it running SeeYou, no
question.

Thanks for your discussion and opinions

[Robert Danewid]

Look at

http://www.k6-team.de/

Robert
ASW 28-18E RD


Richard skrev:
> On Nov 17, 8:30 am, Peter Wyld > wrote:
>> At 14:45 17 November 2008, Richard wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 16, 10:51=A0pm, brianDG303 wrote:
>>>> Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
>>>> hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's
>> we
>>>> get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
>>>> some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
>>>> (Travel Companion) family.
>>>> These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
>>>> There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
>>>> information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
>>>> little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
>>>> The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
>>>> tall.
>>>> =A0Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970
>> and
>>>> the same brightness as most other automotive GPS=92s. There are other
>>>> advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
>>>> of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
>>>> light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
>>>> screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
>>>> mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
>>>> adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.
>>>> Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
>>>> HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
>>>> adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
>>>> comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site.
>>>> PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
>>>> everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
>>>> run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
>>>> candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
>>>> they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
>>>> PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
>>>> know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
>>>> corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
>>>> mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
>>>> like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
>>>> not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
>>>> people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
>>>> so this is another possibility for gliders.
>>>> Brian
>>> Brian,
>>> I have a Ipaq 310 running SeeYou Mobile. SeeYou Mobile runs from the
>>> SD Card so you can still use the Street Map Software on the 310. The
>>> screen visibility in my opinion in direct sunlight is no better that
>>> the Ipaq 55xx or 47xx. It has VGA resolution like the Ipaq 4700. You
>>> can tilt the instrument to reduce the glare, but you can also do that
>>> with the Ipaq 4700. The program runs well because of the 600 mHz
>>> processor. I also have concerns as the 310 only has a landscape mode.
>>> You cannot see very far ahead. I checked with HP to see about
>>> Portrait. They said NO. Maybe they will change in the future. I
>>> beleive it is an excellent cost effective option for those that don't
>>> have a GPS. Its internal GPS runs fine in the Auto and should do well
>>> in a glider. Unfortunately it does not have a serial port only USB so
>>> maybe a USB to serial converter may work.
>>> I will be adding mounts and cable kits to my website so you can power
>>> the 310 from your glider battery.
>>> If you really want to see the screen please see the Craggy Aero
>>> Ultimate.
>>> http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm
>>> Thanks,
>>> Richard
>>> www.craggyaero.com
>> The USB - serial thing won't work unless this device is a Host/Master
>> device. PDAs etc. are normally Guest/Slave devices, PCs are Host/Master
>> devices.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Peter,
>
> Do you think a serial to bluetooth converter would work? Bluetooth to
> the PDA. The converter would be on a CAI 302 or Borgelt B500.
> Still we would need a cable to power the Ipaq device from the glider
> battery.
>
> Richard
> www.craggyaero.com

[bildan]

On Nov 17, 10:28*am, brianDG303 > wrote:
> Hi Richard,
> I’m surprised you feel the 4700 and the 310 are similar in direct sun.
> I find the 310 so much better.
> I rigged up a jig using a Littlemore Scientific architectural light
> meter (reads out in LUX) that I could use to measure light output. I
> get 60 or 70 LUX from an IPAQ 3970 and 270 to 300 LUX from the 310. I
> also have Garmin NUVI 260 GPS and I get the same 270 to 300 reading
> from that, the rumor is that TomTom units are a little less bright but
> I don't have one to test. The point is that most GPS units you run
> across are probably about as bright and as direct sunlight readable as
> the 310, so all you have to do is borrow one from a friend and you can
> do the PDA/GPS comparison yourself. The 310 isn’t perfect, just lots
> better.
>
> I don’t think the 310 can be made to run in Portrait but there will be
> other, similar devices that will. For instance, the MIO C520. And a
> lot more coming, these are just the first in a wave of new gadgets.
>
> Don’t forget Serial to Bluetooth adapters which seem to be working as
> input to the 310. Output may be another story.
>
> You are right about cost effective, $180 is very effective. With the
> money you save you can buy the more expensive ZAON XRX and a bluetooth
> adapter and, if as I suspect SeeYou someday has the feature, you could
> display inbound threats on the screen in their relative location.
> Already this is working with FLARM.
>


> As far as the Ultimate and the Clearnav, these are not options for me.
> I simply CAN’T mount them in my glider, don’t have the room. I did try
> to buy an early Clearnav with the idea of rigging some kind of mount
> that would allow it to be swung up and lay flat on top of the glare
> shield. The ClearNav and Ultimate screen are just too big for my plane
> and also too big for my needs, I really want very little from a flight
> computer other than my arrival altitude at various landing points and
> the bearing/distance to those places. If I decide I want more
> information from a larger screen, one option would be to mount two HP
> 310’s (I think of that option as a "Ramm Mount"). If I had a Stemme
> and a huge panel I would put in an Ultimate in it running SeeYou, no
> question.
>
> Thanks for your discussion and opinions

I suspect the "portrait" format will morph to "landscape" since that
will fit glider panels better. I've sketched out 16:9 aspect ratio in
an 8" screen that fits most glider panels. This format provides a lot
of "screen real estate" for advanced features.

I've noticed that there are LED backlit LCD screens in that format
coming to market offering 1000 - 3000 nit brightness at very
reasonable current draws. Still better are some of the new OLED
displays offer that brightness in a thin, flexible (highly resistant
to breakage) display.

I still don't want a "gadget", I want an open system I can configure
to my desires.

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

I have an iPAQ 310 in hand for testing with SeeYou Mobile. It works very
nicely. It is a beta version at this point, but it is already great. I
tested it using the 310's built-in GPS. The screen is larger (4.3 inch
diagonal WVGA) than my iPAQ hx4705 and iPAQ 210 (4 inch diagonal VGA
screen). It is higher resolution than both those devices. The hx4700 and
210 are 640 x 480 pixels (portrait orientation) and the iPAQ 310 is 800 x
480 pixels (landscape orientation).

I haven't done any testing in sunlight yet, but the iPAQ 310 looks slightly
brighter than the iPAQ 210.

If you want to use it with an external GPS such as a Cambridge 302 then the
only working option (sort of) at this time is the K6 Bt BlueTooth module.
It makes it possible to receive GPS data from a 302 or other device. I
tested the K6 Bt with my iPAQ 210 and hx4705. It worked great at sending
302 GPS and pressure altitude data to the PDA using SeeYou Mobile (no other
soaring software works with it at this time). I was also able to exchange
MacCready data with the 302.

However, for some reason the serial connection with BlueTooth and the K6 Bt
is not a simple and straightforward one. I was not able to get SeeYou
Mobile to send a task declaration to the 302. I was also not able to
download a flight log from the 302 using SeeYou ConnectMe or the Cambridge
300 Utility. Hopefully SeeYou will get those features working eventually.
I also tested the K6 Bt unit with Glide Navigator II and the Cambridge 300
Utility and a simple GPS test program for the PDA, but those software
programs did not work with it.

I think that the iPAQ 310 will be a great option for someone that wants to
use SeeYou Mobile on it and use its internal GPS. It is a very nice
portable system. I will offer mounts and power cables on my web site soon.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"brianDG303" > wrote in message
...
Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's we
get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
(Travel Companion) family.

These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
tall.

Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970 and
the same brightness as most other automotive GPS’s. There are other
advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.

Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site.

PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
so this is another possibility for gliders.

Brian

[Darryl Ramm]

On Nov 17, 8:48*am, Richard > wrote:
> On Nov 17, 8:30*am, Peter Wyld > wrote:
>
>
>
> > At 14:45 17 November 2008, Richard wrote:
>
> > >On Nov 16, 10:51=A0pm, brianDG303 *wrote:
> > >> Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
> > >> hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's
> > we
> > >> get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
> > >> some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
> > >> (Travel Companion) family.
>
> > >> These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
> > >> There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
> > >> information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
> > >> little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
> > >> The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
> > >> tall.
>
> > >> =A0Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970
> > and
> > >> the same brightness as most other automotive GPS=92s. There are other
> > >> advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
> > >> of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
> > >> light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
> > >> screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
> > >> mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
> > >> adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.
>
> > >> Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
> > >> HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
> > >> adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
> > >> comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site..
>
> > >> PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
> > >> everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
> > >> run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
> > >> candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
> > >> they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
> > >> PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
> > >> know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
> > >> corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
> > >> mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
> > >> like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
> > >> not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
> > >> people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
> > >> so this is another possibility for gliders.
>
> > >> Brian
>
> > >Brian,
>
> > >I have a Ipaq 310 running SeeYou Mobile. *SeeYou Mobile runs from the
> > >SD Card so you can still use the Street Map Software on the 310. * The
> > >screen visibility in my opinion in direct sunlight is no better that
> > >the Ipaq 55xx or 47xx. It has VGA resolution like the Ipaq 4700. * You
> > >can tilt the instrument to reduce the glare, but you can also do that
> > >with the Ipaq 4700. *The program runs well because of the 600 mHz
> > >processor. I also have concerns as the 310 only has a landscape mode.
> > >You cannot see very far ahead. * I checked with HP to see about
> > >Portrait. *They said NO. *Maybe they will change in the future. * I
> > >beleive it is an excellent cost effective option for those that don't
> > >have a GPS. *Its internal GPS runs fine in the Auto and should do well
> > >in a glider. *Unfortunately it does not have a serial port only USB so
> > >maybe a USB to serial converter may work.
>
> > >I will be adding *mounts and cable kits to my website so you can power
> > >the 310 from your glider battery.
>
> > >If you really want to see the screen please see the Craggy Aero
> > >Ultimate.
>
> > >http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm
>
> > >Thanks,
>
> > >Richard
> > >www.craggyaero.com
>
> > The USB - serial thing won't work unless this device is a Host/Master
> > device. PDAs etc. are normally Guest/Slave devices, PCs are Host/Master
> > devices.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Peter,
>
> Do you think a serial to bluetooth converter would work? *Bluetooth to
> the PDA. * *The converter would be on a CAI 302 or Borgelt B500.
> Still we would need a cable to power the Ipaq device from the glider
> battery.
>
> Richardwww.craggyaero.com

It should be possible to find a serial to blue tooth convector that
should work as long as the PDA/device supports a serial port profile
(SPP), which Windows Mobile PDAs and the WinCE based iPAQ 310 do. The
issue is testing/finding a converter. Some are broken, have horrible
documentation, too large/awkward to fit on the end of C302 (so you
would wire those in with a cable). Some models have status LEDs, which
might prove awfully useful when configuring/trying to work out what is
happening. Unless it is trivial to access behind the panel you
probably want to mount the converter where the bluetooth pairing
button can be accessed (for use when your PDA blows it's brains out
and you need to re-pair the bluetooth link), being able to also see
the status LEDs on the conveter while doing this would be handy. You
should probably expect to need a gender changing cable on a C302 to
the adapter.

Geeking out here, but of the high-end adapters look really impressive,
e.g. http://www.sena.com/products/industrial_bluetooth/sd1000.php
(notice documentation, status LEDs, upgradeable firmware, ...)
overkill, and sadly this one does not appear to be wired to leech
power off pin 9, but I could be wrong.

I started looking around for adapters for another use, but never
tested them so cannot recommend a specific model, except I would stay
away from the junky IOGEAR adapter.

Darryl

[Stephen Haley]

Have been watching the threads on the 310 with interest - my google trap
fror the 310 recently threw up a potential Portrait mode driver -
I dont have a 310 so this is UNTESTED
see http://kpr3712.npage.de/downloads_89312177.html

rgds
Stephen

[Bernie[_4_]]

XCSoar on $200 in car navigator :

http://blipmap.walsys.net/forum/index.php?topic=95.0

[Bernie[_4_]]

Updated link:

http://www.users.on.net/~dsg/HG/xcsoarX350.html

[Richard[_1_]]

On Nov 17, 12:45*pm, Stephen Haley > wrote:
> Have been watching the threads on the 310 with interest - my google trap
> fror the 310 recently threw up a potential Portrait mode driver -
> I dont have a 310 so this is UNTESTED
> seehttp://kpr3712.npage.de/downloads_89312177.html
>
> rgds
> Stephen

Stephen,

Thanks it worked and the screen is rotated portrait running SeeYou
Mobile. It took a lot of fussing around.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Henryk Birecki]

If you really want to use iPaq 310 platform, you can also run GPS_LOG
WinCE on it after you load some aditional software into it. More
information on the Yahoo GPS-LOG users group
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GPS_LOG/)

Cheers,
Henryk Birecki

brianDG303 > wrote:

>Lots of us run flight software on a PDA and complain about the dim and
>hard to read screen and can't help noticing those big bright GPS's we
>get to drive around with. It looks like SeeYou Mobile will soon run on
>some GPS platforms and it's now in beta running on the HP IPAQ 310
>(Travel Companion) family.
>
>These are available for $180 factory refurbished or for $225 new.
>There are a ton of reviews to google and I'm not going to repeat that
>information here, but a few things- the overall size of the 310 is a
>little smaller than my IPAQ 3970 but the screen is a little bigger.
>The 310 is a landscape only display and measures 94mm wide by 58mm
>tall.
>
> Screen brightness- The 310 is 4x the brightness of the IPAQ 3970 and
>the same brightness as most other automotive GPS’s. There are other
>advantages to the 310 over a PDA, the anti reflective coating is state
>of the art so no aftermarket glare film is needed, and those cut the
>light output by at least 16%. The crispness and contrast of the
>screen, which is off the charts, help a lot. And the easy to adjust
>mount combined with fair off-angle viewing allows the unit to be
>adjusted to an angle that will minimize glare.
>
>Other news of interest: already an outfit in Europe has connected an
>HP 310 running SYM 3.1 beta to FLARM via a serial to bluetooth
>adapter, there is a link to a video of this, as well as a link to a
>comparison photo of SYM on a 310 and a PDA on the Naviter forum site.
>
>PocketFMS, PDA flight software for powered flight, is ahead of
>everyone else in this game and have a longer list of PNA's that will
>run ported software. This will give a clue as to which PNA's are good
>candidates for this conversion in the long run and what attributes
>they'll have. The firmware (I think that is the limitation) of each
>PNA's version of WindowsCE determines some of the features. (I don't
>know much about operating systems and am on shakey ground here,
>corrections invited) For instance, The 310 display runs in landscape
>mode as opposed to PDA's portrait, and for flight software it seems
>like portrait is better. The firmware (or whatever) of the 310 does
>not allow it to be run in portrait, other PNA's will. The PocketFMS
>people use the bluetooth connection to integrate ZAON traffic alerts
>so this is another possibility for gliders.
>
>Brian

[brianDG303]

{It took a lot of fussing around.}

Richard,
thanks for that. The gang at PocketFMS swears up and down it can't be
done so I assumed it was not possible.

Is this fussing that can be explained, or is it beyond us mortals? I
personally could be happy with landscape.

RE: mounts.
I suspect that using the suction cup to stick the 310 to the glass
face of the altimeter won't get much approval. The ball and socket
part of the mount ends in a 1/2" flat that meets the flat of a
tightening knob. If the suction cup support arm was cut away a small
hole could be drilled into flat stock (or the panel itself)and the 310
mount could be attached by by using the tightening knob as a mounting
bolt.

[DRN]

On Nov 17, 6:01*pm, Richard > wrote:
> It took a lot of fussing around.

That's what PDAs are for !
See ya, Dave "YO electric"

[Richard[_1_]]

On Nov 17, 3:30*pm, brianDG303 > wrote:
> {It took a lot of fussing around.}
>
> Richard,
> thanks for that. The gang at PocketFMS swears up and down it can't be
> done so I assumed it was not possible.
>
> Is this fussing that can be explained, or is it beyond us mortals? I
> personally could be happy with landscape.
>
> RE: mounts.
> I suspect that using the suction cup to stick the 310 to the glass
> face of the altimeter won't get much approval. The ball and socket
> part of the mount ends in a 1/2" flat that meets the flat of a
> tightening knob. If the suction cup support arm was cut away a small
> hole could be drilled into flat stock (or the panel itself)and the 310
> mount could be attached by by using the tightening knob as a mounting
> bolt.

Brian,

Fisrt of all you need SeeYou Mobile installed on the SD Card. Then
start the 310 SeeYou Mobile will run, shut it down and connect with
active sync.

You have to copy the .cab file to the flash drive of you Ipaq 310 and
run it to install. Then run the rotate program it installs.

I will have a cable and power converter kit on my web in a couple of
days to power the 310 from your glider battery.

I will also have mounting solutions with a tilt swivel that connects
to goosenecks or ram mounts that I already sell.

The GPS seems to work OK with the unit sideways, I will do more
testing.

Also I have contacted SeeYou with the information. Some tuning of the
Beta program will be needed to make it look better. But it appears to
work.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Richard[_1_]]

On Nov 17, 3:35*pm, DRN > wrote:
> On Nov 17, 6:01*pm, Richard > wrote:
>
> > It took a lot of fussing around.
>
> That's what PDAs are for !
> See ya, Dave "YO electric"

Dave,

That is why I designed and manufacture the Ultimate no fussing. We
could do a custom 24" diagonal screen for you will all your available
battery power.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[brianDG303]

On Nov 17, 4:40*pm, Richard > wrote:
> On Nov 17, 3:35*pm, DRN > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 17, 6:01*pm, Richard > wrote:
>
> > > It took a lot of fussing around.
>
> > That's what PDAs are for !
> > See ya, Dave "YO electric"
>
> Dave,
>
> That is why I designed and manufacture the Ultimate no fussing. *We
> could do a custom 24" *diagonal screen for you will all your available
> battery power.
>
> http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm
>
> Richardwww.craggyaero.com

Richard, then Dave will want a 24" diameter image of an ILEC SN10.

[DRN]

On Nov 17, 7:40*pm, Richard > wrote:
> Dave,
>
> That is why I designed and manufacture the Ultimate no fussing. *We
> could do a custom 24" *diagonal screen for you will all your available
> battery power.

Unfortunately Richard, my glider, as with many popular
motorgliders, cannot accomodate this in the panel. Motor-
control, radio, transponder, full-size ASI, mini-Alt,
two mini-varios, and the ILEC SN10 fills the remaining
space...

Thanks for the offer though !
See ya, Dave "YO electric"

[DRN]

FYI:
http://www.nadler.com/Antares/YO_panel.jpg
Transponder goes in the blank at right.
See ya, Dave

PS: photo credit to BB.

PPS: Maybe John needs to upgrade to an Antares
now that he's hit the big time !

[Richard[_1_]]

On Nov 17, 5:09*pm, DRN > wrote:
> On Nov 17, 7:40*pm, Richard > wrote:
>
> > Dave,
>
> > That is why I designed and manufacture the Ultimate no fussing. *We
> > could do a custom 24" *diagonal screen for you will all your available
> > battery power.
>
> Unfortunately Richard, my glider, as with many popular
> motorgliders, cannot accomodate this in the panel. Motor-
> control, radio, transponder, full-size ASI, mini-Alt,
> two mini-varios, and the ILEC SN10 fills the remaining
> space...
>
> Thanks for the offer though !
> See ya, Dave "YO electric"

Dave,

We can pouch out the canopy and glob it on the the front of your
panel. I will promise to put a small 2" diagonal SN10 Black and White
Windows Window in the exact middle of the 24" diagonal screen.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[brianDG303]

FYI, I just installed a transponder and wondered about the power
budget of the IPAQ 310. With a dead battery it pulls .465 amp @ 12.5
volts and fully charged it pulled .27. This is with Bluetooth off,
backlight 100% on all the time and just using the car adapter,
measured from the battery to the car adapter.

The batteries in these are easy to change, like a cellphone, and
extended batteries are available with a replacement cover that sticks
out and won't allow the original mount to be used. It might be nice to
have the extended battery in a different mount. Right now with a
transponder, encoder, etc. my total power requirement is .9 amps with
the IPAQ running off the airplane battery and .62 without it.
Currently I have a newer 12AH battery that should easily run for an 8
hr. flight. So it seems logical to pull the aircraft power off the
IPAQ and maybe even run the vario from it's backup battery after 5 or
6 hours.

[Stephen Haley]

At 23:01 17 November 2008, Richard wrote:
>On Nov 17, 12:45=A0pm, Stephen Haley wrote:
>> Have been watching the threads on the 310 with interest - my google
trap
>> fror the 310 recently threw up a potential Portrait mode driver -
>> I dont have a 310 so this is UNTESTED
>> seehttp://kpr3712.npage.de/downloads_89312177.html
>>
>> rgds
>> Stephen
>
>Stephen,
>
>Thanks it worked and the screen is rotated portrait running SeeYou
>Mobile. It took a lot of fussing around.
>
>Richard
>www.craggyaero.com
>

Richard,
Would you be good enough to post the details of how you did it in the
seeyou PNA forum please to give the heads up to others that it is
possible
Might make the move after xmass.

Stephen