Occasional Instruction in own airplane

[[email protected]]

Hello,

I'm a CFI, and am considering buying a Cherokee, mostly for personal
use. I would like to be able to offer occasional flight instruction in
that plane (less than 50 hours per year). This would consist mostly of
BFRs and intro flights. I recall seeing that insurance for such
occasional instruction was offered somewhere, but I can't seem to find
it. I don't want to pay an extra $2000 for such coverage tho. Is
anyone else doing this, and if so where did you obtain the appropriate
insurance coverage?

Thanks,

Chris

[Denny]

On Dec 5, 4:39*pm, wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm a CFI, and am considering buying a Cherokee, mostly for personal
> use. I would like to be able to offer occasional flight instruction in
> that plane (less than 50 hours per year). This would consist mostly of
> BFRs and intro flights. I recall seeing that insurance for such
> occasional instruction was offered somewhere, but I can't seem to find
> it. I don't want to pay an extra $2000 * for such coverage tho. Is
> anyone else doing this, and if so where did you obtain the appropriate
> insurance coverage?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris

Chris,
Check the regs... Flying for hire is what your CFI covers... Offering
YOUR aircraft out to the public is a different ballgame - airtaxi...
Remember Bob Hoover and CYA...

cheers ... denny

[Maxwell[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
| Hello,
|
| I'm a CFI, and am considering buying a Cherokee, mostly for personal
| use. I would like to be able to offer occasional flight instruction in
| that plane (less than 50 hours per year). This would consist mostly of
| BFRs and intro flights. I recall seeing that insurance for such
| occasional instruction was offered somewhere, but I can't seem to find
| it. I don't want to pay an extra $2000 for such coverage tho. Is
| anyone else doing this, and if so where did you obtain the appropriate
| insurance coverage?
|

As long as you are always in the aircraft, and you don't hang out a shingle,
would you really need more insurance?

On another note, are you certain your field will allow you to freelance? I
have heard of others being declined. Depends on the airport, but I would
make certain of the local policies before I bought an aircraft.

[Mike Isaksen]

Chris,
Call AVEMCO, I recall them issuing a press release around the time of
Oshkosh covering this with little additional policy cost (for incidental
instruction). Don't know how this works for primary where the student will
use the plane solo. Good luck.

> wrote ...
> I'm a CFI, and am considering buying a Cherokee, mostly for personal
> use. I would like to be able to offer occasional flight instruction in
> that plane (less than 50 hours per year). This would consist mostly of
> BFRs and intro flights. I recall seeing that insurance for such
> occasional instruction was offered somewhere, but I can't seem to find
> it. I don't want to pay an extra $2000 for such coverage tho. Is
> anyone else doing this, and if so where did you obtain the appropriate
> insurance coverage?
>

[Peter Dohm]

> > wrote ...
>> I'm a CFI, and am considering buying a Cherokee, mostly for personal
>> use. I would like to be able to offer occasional flight instruction in
>> that plane (less than 50 hours per year). This would consist mostly of
>> BFRs and intro flights. I recall seeing that insurance for such
>> occasional instruction was offered somewhere, but I can't seem to find
>> it. I don't want to pay an extra $2000 for such coverage tho. Is
>> anyone else doing this, and if so where did you obtain the appropriate
>> insurance coverage?
>>
>

"Mike Isaksen" > wrote in message
...
> Chris,
> Call AVEMCO, I recall them issuing a press release around the time of
> Oshkosh covering this with little additional policy cost (for incidental
> instruction). Don't know how this works for primary where the student will
> use the plane solo. Good luck.
>
>
AOPA may also be an excellent source of info. All the best.

[BT]

An airport authority cannot limit access to the airport for "private"
instructors running their own operations and not being associated with a
"recognized" flight school.

To do so they would jeopardize their Federal Funding.
BT

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> | Hello,
> |
> | I'm a CFI, and am considering buying a Cherokee, mostly for personal
> | use. I would like to be able to offer occasional flight instruction in
> | that plane (less than 50 hours per year). This would consist mostly of
> | BFRs and intro flights. I recall seeing that insurance for such
> | occasional instruction was offered somewhere, but I can't seem to find
> | it. I don't want to pay an extra $2000 for such coverage tho. Is
> | anyone else doing this, and if so where did you obtain the appropriate
> | insurance coverage?
> |
>
> As long as you are always in the aircraft, and you don't hang out a
> shingle,
> would you really need more insurance?
>
> On another note, are you certain your field will allow you to freelance? I
> have heard of others being declined. Depends on the airport, but I would
> make certain of the local policies before I bought an aircraft.
>
>

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"BT" > wrote in message
...
| An airport authority cannot limit access to the airport for "private"
| instructors running their own operations and not being associated with a
| "recognized" flight school.
|
| To do so they would jeopardize their Federal Funding.

Perhaps correct in theory, but not in reality.

Some airports do indeed have requirements that include maintaining
insurance, office space, restrooms, parking facilities, etc. And if your
local airport does, good luck finding anyone in the Federal Government that
will help an independent CFI fight it.

I would hope it's a rare situation, but it was discussed on one of the
rec.aviation groups a year or so ago, and several people acknowledged the
problem with their local airport. So it does indeed happen.

[[email protected]]

BT > wrote:
> An airport authority cannot limit access to the airport for "private"
> instructors running their own operations and not being associated with a
> "recognized" flight school.
>
> To do so they would jeopardize their Federal Funding.
> BT

They can not keep you from operating an aircraft.

They can keep you from running a business on their property.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"BT" > wrote in message
...
> An airport authority cannot limit access to the airport for "private"
> instructors running their own operations and not being associated with a
> "recognized" flight school.
>
> To do so they would jeopardize their Federal Funding.

This has come up before, and although you are correct about them not being
able to stop you from teaching at a publicly funded airport, they can
require you to do other things, such as establish an office at the airport,
and to rent the office, and possibly hangar space from the airport
authority.

They can not keep you from flying in from elsewhere to practice, so it might
be a good idea to find a place that will not keep you from teaching as you
wish.
--
Jim in NC

[Dana M. Hague[_2_]]

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:04:14 -0800, "BT" > wrote:

>An airport authority cannot limit access to the airport for "private"
>instructors running their own operations and not being associated with a
>"recognized" flight school.
>
>To do so they would jeopardize their Federal Funding.

Only if the airport receives Federal funding. The vast majority of
small airports (nearly all privately owned airports, and even many
municipally owned ones) receive no funding, so they can do what they
want.

-Dana
--
Never write device drivers on acid.

[Mike]

"Dana M. Hague" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 21:04:14 -0800, "BT" > wrote:
>
>>An airport authority cannot limit access to the airport for "private"
>>instructors running their own operations and not being associated with a
>>"recognized" flight school.
>>
>>To do so they would jeopardize their Federal Funding.
>
> Only if the airport receives Federal funding. The vast majority of
> small airports (nearly all privately owned airports, and even many
> municipally owned ones) receive no funding, so they can do what they
> want.

This is correct and I would add that smaller airports that do receive public
funding quite often receive it from state aviation authorities which have
their own rules on such matters.

[Mike]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "BT" > wrote in message
> ...
>> An airport authority cannot limit access to the airport for "private"
>> instructors running their own operations and not being associated with a
>> "recognized" flight school.
>>
>> To do so they would jeopardize their Federal Funding.
>
> This has come up before, and although you are correct about them not being
> able to stop you from teaching at a publicly funded airport, they can
> require you to do other things, such as establish an office at the
> airport, and to rent the office, and possibly hangar space from the
> airport authority.

There's a difference between a publicly funded airport and a federally
funded airport. The feds have their own rules as do the states.

As far as the fed rules go, they can stop you from teaching also. All they
have to do is cite safety concerns or some other exclusion found in the
airport sponsor assurance agreement with the feds. Airport managers have a
pretty wide latitude on what types of activities they can allow or exclude,
or even limit. They are supposed to be reasonable, but many aren't, and
unless it's particularly egregious, the FAA probably isn't going to
intervene.

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

BT wrote:
> An airport authority cannot limit access to the airport for "private"
> instructors running their own operations and not being associated with a
> "recognized" flight school.

Actually, my local municipal airport has done so for years.

Maybe they don't take federal funding?

[Morgans[_2_]]

"B A R R Y" > wrote
>
> Actually, my local municipal airport has done so for years.
>
> Maybe they don't take federal funding?

I'll bet if the airport director (or whatever they call that position) got a
letter or a call from an AOPA lawyer, they would change their tune.

Of course, they could always use the other tactics I mentioned, like
requiring an on airport office, perhaps even staffed full time, or something
like that.
--
Jim in NC

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Morgans wrote:
> "B A R R Y" > wrote
>> Actually, my local municipal airport has done so for years.
>>
>> Maybe they don't take federal funding?
>
> I'll bet if the airport director (or whatever they call that position) got a
> letter or a call from an AOPA lawyer, they would change their tune.
>

It's been challenged several times... It stands.

[[email protected]]

On Dec 7, 10:18*am, Denny > wrote:
> On Dec 5, 4:39*pm, wrote:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > I'm a CFI, and am considering buying aCherokee, mostly for personal
> > use. I would like to be able to offeroccasionalflightinstructionin
> > that plane (less than 50 hours per year). This would consist mostly of
> > BFRs and intro flights. I recall seeing that insurance for such
> >occasionalinstructionwas offered somewhere, but I can't seem to find
> > it. I don't want to pay an extra $2000 * for such coverage tho. Is
> > anyone else doing this, and if so where did you obtain the appropriate
> > insurance coverage?
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Chris
>
> Chris,
> Check the regs... Flying for hire is what your CFI covers... Offering
> YOUR aircraft out to the public is a different ballgame - airtaxi...
> Remember Bob Hoover and CYA...
>
> cheers *... *denny

Uh...no. Offering an aircraft for *instruction* for hire is NOT air
taxi. Or do you think that all those Part 61 flight schools out there
have Part 135 certificates somewhere?

[John Godwin]

Denny > wrote in

:

> Check the regs... Flying for hire is what your CFI covers...
> Offering YOUR aircraft out to the public is a different ballgame -
> airtaxi... Remember Bob Hoover and CYA...

Wrong on both counts.

--

[[email protected]]

On Dec 10, 9:35*am, wrote:
> On Dec 7, 10:18*am, Denny > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 5, 4:39*pm, wrote:
>
> > > Hello,
>
> > > I'm a CFI, and am considering buying aCherokee, mostly for personal
> > > use. I would like to be able to offeroccasionalflightinstructionin
> > > that plane (less than 50 hours per year). This would consist mostly of
> > > BFRs and intro flights. I recall seeing that insurance for such
> > >occasionalinstructionwas offered somewhere, but I can't seem to find
> > > it. I don't want to pay an extra $2000 * for such coverage tho. Is
> > > anyone else doing this, and if so where did you obtain the appropriate
> > > insurance coverage?
>
> > > Thanks,
>
> > > Chris
>
> > Chris,
> > Check the regs... Flying for hire is what your CFI covers... Offering
> > YOUR aircraft out to the public is a different ballgame - airtaxi...
> > Remember Bob Hoover and CYA...
>
> > cheers *... *denny
>
> Uh...no. Offering an aircraft for *instruction* for hire is NOT air
> taxi. Or do you think that all those Part 61 flight schools out there
> have Part 135 certificates somewhere?

Not sure about the USA, but in Canada such activity must
take place in a commercially-registered airplane, not a privately-
registered one. Maintenance requirements for commercial differ
somewhat as well. Something to consider.

Dan

[Morgans[_2_]]

"B A R R Y" > wrote
>
> It's been challenged several times... It stands.

What, exactly, has been challenged, and by whom?
--
Jim in NC

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Morgans wrote:
> "B A R R Y" > wrote
>> It's been challenged several times... It stands.
>
> What, exactly, has been challenged, and by whom?


Folks that wanted to use the place to meet students and instruct, using
it as a base, and a guy doing repairs out of the hangar he rented.
There's even a huge, "NO PRIVATE ENTERPRISES" sign installed by the city.

You can, of course, fly into the field, land, teach, etc... then fly
away.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
...
> Morgans wrote:
>> "B A R R Y" > wrote
>>> It's been challenged several times... It stands.
>>
>> What, exactly, has been challenged, and by whom?
>
>
> Folks that wanted to use the place to meet students and instruct, using it
> as a base, and a guy doing repairs out of the hangar he rented. There's
> even a huge, "NO PRIVATE ENTERPRISES" sign installed by the city.
>
> You can, of course, fly into the field, land, teach, etc... then fly
> away.

Has the field used any federal funds? If so, the city could be in line for
defending a nice law suite.

Repairing aircraft in a private hangar could be illegal if it did not meet
some fire codes for some activities, so it might have to have sprinklers, or
something. Difficult to know without knowing the specifics of the type of
activities and what the local and state codes are.

Has AOPA been called about the case?
--
Jim in NC

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Morgans wrote:
>
> Has AOPA been called about the case?

Yes.

[Tman[_2_]]

B A R R Y wrote:
> Morgans wrote:
>>
>> Has AOPA been called about the case?
>
> Yes.
this is at KIJD?

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Tman wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:
>> Morgans wrote:
>>>
>>> Has AOPA been called about the case?
>>
>> Yes.
> this is at KIJD?


Nope!

Windham has Freedom Jets (formerly Windham Aviation, doing repairs and
fuel) and Windham Aircraft Repair (George Lewis, my mechanic and tie
down renter). IJD is state owned.

I'm not going to mention the field, because I like the parties on both
sides. The field in question is city owned.

Just this past Monday, I had George do a pre-buy on a new plane.