OT-youtube political video

[Brad[_2_]]

I got this the other day from my Dad, retired from the armed forces
and lives in Pensacola FL.........FWIW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1

Who and what are we to believe about all this stuff?

The only things I can really believe in are when I core a 500FPM
thermal and gain a few thousand feet: I am there and I am experiencing
the event.

As average citizens we "rely" on un-reliable politically motivated
news sources.

Sorry if this post offends anyone, but I've come to look to this group
as a bunch of really smart folks with some very good opinions.

Happy New Years!

[[email protected]]

On Dec 31, 10:22*am, Brad > wrote:
> I got this the other day from my Dad, retired from the armed forces
> and lives in Pensacola FL.........FWIW.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1
>
> Who and what are we to believe about all this stuff?
>
> The only things I can really believe in are when I core a 500FPM
> thermal and gain a few thousand feet: I am there and I am experiencing
> the event.
>
> As average citizens we "rely" on un-reliable politically motivated
> news sources.
>
> Sorry if this post offends anyone, but I've come to look to this group
> as a bunch of really smart folks with some very good opinions.
>
> Happy New Years!

I've heard the story enough times and from enough different sources to
believe it's basically true. I've heard other paraphrases of comments
from Barney Frank that he was willing to "roll the dice" on a
financial collapse in order to keep home "ownership" available to low
income Americans (hard to call it ownership at 0% down and interest
only). It's also sadly ironic in that many of them will now lose those
homes - and more). His statement in the video that a federal bailout
was his fallback plan is breathtaking - and a rare moment of candor
for any of us who have watched Barney's antics over the years. It's
all consistent with the Congressman's bent towards aggressive income
redistribution, among other things.

Next watch for his call for a bailout of "mainstreet" - where the rest
of us get to buy homes for Barney's delinquent (on their mortgages)
constituients.

Happy New Year everybody

[Eric Greenwell]

Brad wrote:
> I got this the other day from my Dad, retired from the armed forces
> and lives in Pensacola FL.........FWIW.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1
>
> Who and what are we to believe about all this stuff?
>
> The only things I can really believe in are when I core a 500FPM
> thermal and gain a few thousand feet: I am there and I am experiencing
> the event.
>
> As average citizens we "rely" on un-reliable politically motivated
> news sources.
>
> Sorry if this post offends anyone, but I've come to look to this group
> as a bunch of really smart folks with some very good opinions.

It is *way* off topic. I suggest any soaring pilots interested in
discussing this subject meet on one of the many areas on the web that
are devoted to political discussion, and continue the discussion there.
This is an international glider group, not a USA political chat room.

Now, if the video had mentioned John Cochrane, maybe it wouldn't be so
far off topic!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[vaughn]

"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
...
> ... meet on one of the many areas on the web that are devoted to
> political discussion, and continue the discussion there. This is an
> international glider group, not a USA political chat room.


Eric gets my vote.

Vaughn

[[email protected]]

On Dec 31, 3:11*pm, "vaughn" >
wrote:
> "Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > *... meet on one of the many areas on the web that are devoted to
> > political discussion, and continue the discussion there. This is an
> > international glider group, not a USA political chat room.
>
> * *Eric gets my vote.
>
> Vaughn

Mine too. I go soaring to escape, and I go to this discussion group
when I can't go soaring. Take the political discussions to a more
appropriate forum, please

[Doug Hoffman]

Brad wrote:
> I got this the other day .........FWIW.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1

On "rare occasion" there are world-impacting non-soaring events.
Political and otherwise. I for one don't mind hearing about them here.
Or perhaps, given the largely financial aspect of our sport, this
isn't so far off topic. Whoops, my 401k is now a 201k so I'll have to
downgrade that self-launcher purchase to a sustainer or even a (shudder)
*motorless* sailplane.

Thanks Brad.

-Doug Hoffman

[Greg Arnold[_2_]]

Doug Hoffman wrote:
> Brad wrote:
>> I got this the other day .........FWIW.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1
>
> On "rare occasion" there are world-impacting non-soaring events.
> Political and otherwise. I for one don't mind hearing about them here.
> Or perhaps, given the largely financial aspect of our sport, this isn't
> so far off topic. Whoops, my 401k is now a 201k so I'll have to
> downgrade that self-launcher purchase to a sustainer or even a (shudder)
> *motorless* sailplane.
>
> Thanks Brad.
>
> -Doug Hoffman


Start talking politics, and you will discover that about half your
soaring friends are completely bonkers. I would rather not know that,
so I support the idea of no political postings here.

[Jim[_18_]]

On Dec 31 2008, 6:10*pm, Greg Arnold > wrote:
> Doug Hoffman wrote:
> > Brad wrote:
> >> I got this the other day .........FWIW.
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1
>
> > On "rare occasion" there are world-impacting non-soaring events.
> > Political and otherwise. *I for one don't mind hearing about them here.
> > *Or perhaps, given the largely financial aspect of our sport, this isn't
> > so far off topic. *Whoops, my 401k is now a 201k so I'll have to
> > downgrade that self-launcher purchase to a sustainer or even a (shudder)
> > *motorless* sailplane.
>
> > Thanks Brad.
>
> > -Doug Hoffman
>
> Start talking politics, and you will discover that about half your
> soaring friends are completely bonkers. *I would rather not know that,
> so I support the idea of no political postings here.

I'm for no politics with our group. I get enough stress in general,
soaring gets me away from most of the angry people in our world,
especially the ones like the person that started this thread.

Jim

[309]

> I'm for no politics with our group.
>

My experience, even in soaring, is that "politics" is not something
you can "avoid." Who's been in a club that remained perfectly
peaceful for more than say, 10 minutes?

There is good politics and there is bad politics...good politics is
how compromise is achieved. Everything else is "bad" politics,
usually where there is a self-serving drive (on the left or the
right...listed here alphabetically, with no "political
persuasion")...and can usually be spotted when compromise is not
possible. My philosophy on politics has changed over the years. I
was an idealistic engineer who thought he could avoid politics
altogether. Avoiding politics doesn't get you out of politics...you
just turn yourself into an "innocent bystander," a "pawn in the game,"
if you will.

I believe pilots are generally somewhat conservative: they look at
high risk endeavors (like soaring) and weigh the risks, try to
mitigate them, and accept risks that can be managed...but shy away
from excessive risk. Pilots who fail to shy away from excessive risk
generally wind up as candidates for the Darwin Awards...but that might
be off topic, as well. I know (and have known) pilots of both
"persuasions" ... there are some I will not fly with (and probably a
few who won't fly with me!).

I can identify with the person who started this thread: Because of
the "financial crisis" I can't afford to pay for as many tows in 2009
(or will chose not to "invest" in those tows, and instead stuff money
in a mattress -- aka my children's college fund). Some of us chose to
buy 1-26's instead of those coveted ASH-26E's, thinking
(conservatively?) that we could not afford the more (?) desirable
"toy," and have chosen to live within our means. Whether you are of a
left or right political persuasion, there's little point in arguing
that people buying things they really could not afford (including
ponzi scheme investments) is at the root of the financial mess we're
left with today. Those that argue the true cause is greed are totally
correct: it is almost as "greedy" to buy a home you know you cannot
afford as it is to try and sell somebody a home they cannot afford.
Strike "home" and insert "glider" if you wish... Teaching somebody
how to mend a bad credit rating or how to enhance their ability to
earn an income is a much better service than helping somebody buy a
house they will only be able to afford in a "good economy." I
refinanced twice (contributing to the mortgage sellers each time) to
get a low, long term fixed loan for the roof over my head and housing
my glider. Keeping the roof over my head is more important than
investing in tows, or having a Beamer to tool around town in.

My hope is that we'll have "good" politics in the next few years, and
rather than trying to "minimize the pain," our "leaders" try to allow
necessary pain, so those who need to will learn from this (I sure
have), and avoid repeating this. And hopefully those who have been
responsible will not have to pay too much for the actions of those who
have not been responsible.

To the person that said "when I'm coring a 500 fpm thermal, I know I
am THERE" I say amen, and hope more pilots get to have that pleasure.
"Good" politics helps us advance our art, sport and science of
aviation. ANYbody who has dealt with the FAA knows that there are
political forces that cannot be ignored -- some for good reasons, some
for bad reasons.

Thank you to all those who have contributed, even those that think
there should be no contribution to this thread.

-Pete
(flame proof suit has been put on, so have at it -- I plan not to
argue with anybody)

[Brad[_2_]]

> I'm for no politics with our group. I get enough stress in general,
> soaring gets me away from most of the angry people in our world,
> especially the ones like the person that started this thread.

Hello Jim,

No, I am not angry, just sad that the petri dish has gotten so fouled.

Brad

[[email protected]]

On Jan 1, 8:43*pm, 309 > wrote:
> > I'm for no politics with our group.
>
> My experience, even in soaring, is that "politics" is not something
> you can "avoid." *Who's been in a club that remained perfectly
> peaceful for more than say, 10 minutes?
>
> There is good politics and there is bad politics...good politics is
> how compromise is achieved. *Everything else is "bad" politics,
> usually where there is a self-serving drive (on the left or the
> right...listed here alphabetically, with no "political
> persuasion")...and can usually be spotted when compromise is not
> possible. *My philosophy on politics has changed over the years. *I
> was an idealistic engineer who thought he could avoid politics
> altogether. *Avoiding politics doesn't get you out of politics...you
> just turn yourself into an "innocent bystander," a "pawn in the game,"
> if you will.
>
> I believe pilots are generally somewhat conservative: *they look at
> high risk endeavors (like soaring) and weigh the risks, try to
> mitigate them, and accept risks that can be managed...but shy away
> from excessive risk. *Pilots who fail to shy away from excessive risk
> generally wind up as candidates for the Darwin Awards...but that might
> be off topic, as well. *I know (and have known) pilots of both
> "persuasions" ... there are some I will not fly with (and probably a
> few who won't fly with me!).
>
> I can identify with the person who started this thread: *Because of
> the "financial crisis" I can't afford to pay for as many tows in 2009
> (or will chose not to "invest" in those tows, and instead stuff money
> in a mattress -- aka my children's college fund). *Some of us chose to
> buy 1-26's instead of those coveted ASH-26E's, thinking
> (conservatively?) that we could not afford the more (?) desirable
> "toy," and have chosen to live within our means. *Whether you are of a
> left or right political persuasion, there's little point in arguing
> that people buying things they really could not afford (including
> ponzi scheme investments) is at the root of the financial mess we're
> left with today. *Those that argue the true cause is greed are totally
> correct: *it is almost as "greedy" to buy a home you know you cannot
> afford as it is to try and sell somebody a home they cannot afford.
> Strike "home" and insert "glider" if you wish... *Teaching somebody
> how to mend a bad credit rating or how to enhance their ability to
> earn an income is a much better service than helping somebody buy a
> house they will only be able to afford in a "good economy." *I
> refinanced twice (contributing to the mortgage sellers each time) to
> get a low, long term fixed loan for the roof over my head and housing
> my glider. *Keeping the roof over my head is more important than
> investing in tows, or having a Beamer to tool around town in.
>
> My hope is that we'll have "good" politics in the next few years, and
> rather than trying to "minimize the pain," our "leaders" try to allow
> necessary pain, so those who need to will learn from this (I sure
> have), and avoid repeating this. *And hopefully those who have been
> responsible will not have to pay too much for the actions of those who
> have not been responsible.
>
> To the person that said "when I'm coring a 500 fpm thermal, I know I
> am THERE" I say amen, and hope more pilots get to have that pleasure.
> "Good" politics helps us advance our art, sport and science of
> aviation. *ANYbody who has dealt with the FAA knows that there are
> political forces that cannot be ignored -- some for good reasons, some
> for bad reasons.
>
> Thank you to all those who have contributed, even those that think
> there should be no contribution to this thread.
>
> -Pete
> (flame proof suit has been put on, so have at it -- I plan not to
> argue with anybody)

In this group, I'd just as soon stick to the politics centered on
sensible advocacy for our sport; things like airspace, FAA regs, and
the like. When it comes to foreign policy, economics, and social
issues, there are plenty of outlets for expressing our opinions (and
often reinforcing our personal biases). Regarding the posted opinion
that started this thread, which was obviously of the economic variety,
I'm just not ready to bemoan the price of aerotows and self-launchers.
Anyone lucky enough to worry about those things is very lucky, indeed.
There are many folks all over the world just trying to keep their
families safe, warm and fed.

I wish you all good fortune in the coming year, soaring and
otherwise...Happy New Year.