PDA Recommendations

[Jim White[_4_]]

My 3970 that runs Winpilot has died and I need to replace it. I have a 3900
cradle fitted to the cockpit. What can you guys recommend that will run
Winpilot?

I believe the 5500 series IPAQ will fit in the same cradle. Can anyone
confirm this? What about other models?

The IPAQ 214 is more powerful but I would have to feed it by bluetooth.
Has anyone done this?

Which model has the brightest screen? I am getting older and the eyes
don't work as well as they did!

Will Winpilot run on the HP314? This has a big bright screen and is very
cheap.

Suggestions based on experience would be very welcome.

Thanks

Jim

[nimbus]

The cradle should not be your major argument for selecting a PDA.

Luminosity, power consumption and size of screen should be....

Today, my favourite selection would be the Loox N560 (it has an
incorporated GPS antenna). It works perfectly with SeeYou and XCSoar.

Bruno

[Paul Remde]

Hi Jim,

Please see my notes below.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Jim White" > wrote in message
...
> My 3970 that runs Winpilot has died and I need to replace it. I have a
> 3900
> cradle fitted to the cockpit. What can you guys recommend that will run
> Winpilot?
>
> I believe the 5500 series IPAQ will fit in the same cradle. Can anyone
> confirm this? What about other models?

- Your cradle will work with any iPAQ h3800, h3900 or h5000 series Pocket
PC. Many glider pilots consider the h3800 to be the easiest of those to
read in sunlight. You can probably find a good used one on eBay.

>
> The IPAQ 214 is more powerful but I would have to feed it by bluetooth.
> Has anyone done this?

- I have done testing with both a CF Card Serial Port and using the K6 Bt
BlueTooth Adapter in my iPAQ 210. The serial port option is less "elegant"
looking, but works well for all communications and with all soaring
software. The K6 Bt connection works well with software that has been
written to work with it. I don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt.
SeeYou Mobile does.

>
> Which model has the brightest screen? I am getting older and the eyes
> don't work as well as they did!

- Unfortunately, no PDA is great in sunlight. The iPAQ h3800 would be
slightly easier to see than your h3900. The iPAQ hx4700 is bigger, higher
resolution and a little brighter and the iPAQ 210 is a the same size and
resolution as the hx4700 and a little brighter. I think the iPAQ 310 is the
brightest option.
>
> Will Winpilot run on the HP314? This has a big bright screen and is very
> cheap.

- The K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter works great with the iPAQ 310/314, but I
don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt.

>
> Suggestions based on experience would be very welcome.

- If I were you I would first try to find a used h3800 on ebay.

- If you want a "wired" connection I recommend the iPAQ 210 with a CF
Serial Card. You can see details on that here:
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/nimbus.htm

- If you find the WinPilot will work with the K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter then
you may want to consider the iPAQ 310/314. You can see details on the K6 Bt
here:
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/k6.htm

>
> Thanks
>
> Jim
>
>

[Eric Greenwell]

Paul Remde wrote:

>
> - If you find the WinPilot will work with the K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter then
> you may want to consider the iPAQ 310/314. You can see details on the K6 Bt
> here:
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/k6.htm

I suggest you ask Winpilot if they will be supporting the HP 314 and
taking advantage of it's much more powerful hardware. SeeYou is adapting
SeeYou Mobile to run on it (Mobile is available in beta version now for
the 314), and says the 10 to 20 times more powerful processor will allow
features not possible on the Ipaqs. A new, low cost, bright screen, high
performance display for the cockpit is compelling, I think, even with
the extra hassle of using Bluetooth. And you can use it to help get you
the airport, too!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Richard[_9_]]

On Jan 7, 3:15*am, Jim White >
wrote:
> My 3970 that runs Winpilot has died and I need to replace it. I have a 3900
> cradle fitted to the cockpit. What can you guys recommend that will run
> Winpilot?
>
> I believe the 5500 series IPAQ will fit in the same cradle. Can anyone
> confirm this? What about other models?
>
> The IPAQ 214 is more powerful but I would have to feed it by bluetooth.
> Has anyone done this?
>
> Which model has the brightest screen? I am getting older and the eyes
> don't work as well as they did!
>
> Will Winpilot run on the HP314? This has a big bright screen and is very
> cheap.
>
> Suggestions based on experience would be very welcome.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim

Jim,

I am the US WinPIlot dealer and recommend the Ipaq 5555 with a clear
touch antiglare screen protector or an Ipaq 4700. . WinPilot ADV &
PRO will run on both. The Ipaq 5555 uses the same cradle as your
3900, the 47xx requires a different cradle.

If you have any other questions please call or email.

Thanks

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Tuno]

Eric or Paul, can you briefly summarize whether/how the 314 would/
could get the RS232 data from a Cambridge 302? (iow is there a RS232-
to-Bluetooth device, and where does it get its power and how much does
it consume?)

[Mike[_8_]]

On Jan 7, 5:33*am, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> Please see my notes below.
>
> Good Soaring,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
> "Jim White" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > My 3970 that runs Winpilot has died and I need to replace it. I have a
> > 3900
> > cradle fitted to the cockpit. What can you guys recommend that will run
> > Winpilot?
>
> > I believe the 5500 series IPAQ will fit in the same cradle. Can anyone
> > confirm this? What about other models?
>
> *- Your cradle will work with any iPAQ h3800, h3900 or h5000 series Pocket
> PC. *Many glider pilots consider the h3800 to be the easiest of those to
> read in sunlight. *You can probably find a good used one on eBay.
>
>
>
> > The IPAQ 214 is more powerful but I would have to feed it by bluetooth.
> > Has anyone done this?
>
> *- I have done testing with both a CF Card Serial Port and using the K6 Bt
> BlueTooth Adapter in my iPAQ 210. *The serial port option is less "elegant"
> looking, but works well for all communications and with all soaring
> software. *The K6 Bt connection works well with software that has been
> written to work with it. *I don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt.
> SeeYou Mobile does.
>
>
>
> > Which model has the brightest screen? I am getting older and the eyes
> > don't work as well as they did!
>
> *- Unfortunately, no PDA is great in sunlight. *The iPAQ h3800 would be
> slightly easier to see than your h3900. *The iPAQ hx4700 is bigger, higher
> resolution and a little brighter and the iPAQ 210 is a the same size and
> resolution as the hx4700 and a little brighter. *I think the iPAQ 310 is the
> brightest option.
>
>
>
> > Will Winpilot run on the HP314? This has a big bright screen and is very
> > cheap.
>
> *- The K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter works great with the iPAQ 310/314, but I
> don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt.
>
>
>
> > Suggestions based on experience would be very welcome.
>
Checking the XCSoar forum it seems that some folks using the HP 310
are not that impressed with the display in sunlight.
It turns out to be no better than a good IPAQ in comparison.
The HP38XX series seems to be best.
The link below will show photo comparisons and opinions from users.

http://www.nabble.com/Adding-a-serial-port-to-the-HP-310-to20825419.html

Mike




> *- If I were you I would first try to find a used h3800 on ebay.
>
> *- If you want a "wired" connection I recommend the iPAQ 210 with a CF
> Serial Card. *You can see details on that here:http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/nimbus.htm
>
> *- If you find the WinPilot will work with the K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter then
> you may want to consider the iPAQ 310/314. *You can see details on the K6 Bt
> here:http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/k6.htm
>
>
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Jim

[Richard[_9_]]

On Jan 7, 8:05*am, Tuno > wrote:
> Eric or Paul, can you briefly summarize whether/how the 314 would/
> could get the RS232 data from a Cambridge 302? (iow is there a RS232-
> to-Bluetooth device, and where does it get its power and how much does
> it consume?)

Ted,

I have tied a Gridconnect firefly serial to blue tooth converter. The
firefly is on the 302. I have not been able to get a valid GPS signal
on either a Ipaq 5555, 4700 or 310.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Steve Koerner]

Tuno: your questions are completely answered at the link that Paul
indicated to his very nice website:

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/k6.htm

[Tuno]

D'oh! How'd I miss that. Looks very nice.

Now all I need is for WinPilot to run on the 310! (Hint Jerry HINT
HINT HINT)

2NO

[kd6veb]

Hi Gang
All the common PDAs are marginal at best in bright sunlight. I have
been running an Ipaq 5555 for a couple of years with GN11. Initially I
ran it as a self contained unit and touched the screen every time I
needed to turn the display on for 10 seconds to read info. Ultimately
I connected it through a USB power connect to the main glider battery
to keep the display permanently on at maximum brightness. This works
fine and the display is visible in bright sunlight. I have thought
about replacing the PDA with one of the newer much larger and brighter
systems now available and if I were to ever buy a new glider I would
design the instrument panel to accept one. However retrofitting into
an existing panel poses problems and I believe that the PDA format
will be with us for some time yet. One thing I would emphasize is that
if you are going to update your PDA the new one should be self
contained including the GPS.
Dave

[bildan]

On Jan 7, 3:15*am, Jim White >
wrote:
> My 3970 that runs Winpilot has died and I need to replace it. I have a 3900
> cradle fitted to the cockpit. What can you guys recommend that will run
> Winpilot?
>
> I believe the 5500 series IPAQ will fit in the same cradle. Can anyone
> confirm this? What about other models?
>
> The IPAQ 214 is more powerful but I would have to feed it by bluetooth.
> Has anyone done this?
>
> Which model has the brightest screen? I am getting older and the eyes
> don't work as well as they did!
>
> Will Winpilot run on the HP314? This has a big bright screen and is very
> cheap.
>
> Suggestions based on experience would be very welcome.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim

Maybe there's help on the way,

See: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/01/flexible-wrist.html
Various sources say these screens are good to excellent in direct
sunlight and they use far less power than an LCD.

See also: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5vrwi_eink-ray-bartok_creation
It's only black and white but the speed is plenty fast. The power
requirements are minimal.

The CES show in Las Vegas this week may have some interesting gadgets.

Bill Daniels

[Tuno]

<snip> if you are going to update your PDA the new one should be self
contained including the GPS. </snip>

Dave, that would not work for me -- the PDA software I use (WinPilot,
GNII or SeeYou Mobile, depending on the coin toss) all use ASI,
pressure altitude, and vario sentences from the 302. Hence, WinPilot
ADV would work with only GPS/NMEA, but WinPilot PRO the others would
not.

-ted/2NO

[Richard[_9_]]

On Jan 7, 8:56*am, Mike > wrote:
> On Jan 7, 5:33*am, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Jim,
>
> > Please see my notes below.
>
> > Good Soaring,
>
> > Paul Remde
> > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
> > "Jim White" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > My 3970 that runs Winpilot has died and I need to replace it. I have a
> > > 3900
> > > cradle fitted to the cockpit. What can you guys recommend that will run
> > > Winpilot?
>
> > > I believe the 5500 series IPAQ will fit in the same cradle. Can anyone
> > > confirm this? What about other models?
>
> > *- Your cradle will work with any iPAQ h3800, h3900 or h5000 series Pocket
> > PC. *Many glider pilots consider the h3800 to be the easiest of those to
> > read in sunlight. *You can probably find a good used one on eBay.
>
> > > The IPAQ 214 is more powerful but I would have to feed it by bluetooth.
> > > Has anyone done this?
>
> > *- I have done testing with both a CF Card Serial Port and using the K6 Bt
> > BlueTooth Adapter in my iPAQ 210. *The serial port option is less "elegant"
> > looking, but works well for all communications and with all soaring
> > software. *The K6 Bt connection works well with software that has been
> > written to work with it. *I don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt..
> > SeeYou Mobile does.
>
> > > Which model has the brightest screen? I am getting older and the eyes
> > > don't work as well as they did!
>
> > *- Unfortunately, no PDA is great in sunlight. *The iPAQ h3800 would be
> > slightly easier to see than your h3900. *The iPAQ hx4700 is bigger, higher
> > resolution and a little brighter and the iPAQ 210 is a the same size and
> > resolution as the hx4700 and a little brighter. *I think the iPAQ 310 is the
> > brightest option.
>
> > > Will Winpilot run on the HP314? This has a big bright screen and is very
> > > cheap.
>
> > *- The K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter works great with the iPAQ 310/314, but I
> > don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt.
>
> > > Suggestions based on experience would be very welcome.
>
> Checking the XCSoar forum it seems that some folks using the HP 310
> are not that impressed with the display in sunlight.
> It turns out to be no better than a good IPAQ in comparison.
> The HP38XX series seems to be best.
> The link below will show photo comparisons and opinions from users.
>
> http://www.nabble.com/Adding-a-serial-port-to-the-HP-310-to20825419.html
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> > *- If I were you I would first try to find a used h3800 on ebay.
>
> > *- If you want a "wired" connection I recommend the iPAQ 210 with a CF
> > Serial Card. *You can see details on that here:http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/nimbus.htm
>
> > *- If you find the WinPilot will work with the K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter then
> > you may want to consider the iPAQ 310/314. *You can see details on the K6 Bt
> > here:http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/k6.htm
>
> > > Thanks
>
> > > Jim- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Mike,

I have compared the ipaq 310 side to side with the Ipaq 5555 and Ipaq
4700 and I also not impressed the difference in my opinoin is slight.

During the design of the Craggy Aero Ultimate. I found that many
problems with visibitiy are due to the touchscreen overlay. If you
want to ruin a display put a touchsceen overlay on it.

Luminisity, Contrast Ratio, and Brightness are also important factors
and the ipaqs do not have high enough values. I designed the Ultimate
so Sunlight does not effect the visibilty.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[[email protected]]

On 7 Jan, 20:52, Richard > wrote:
> On Jan 7, 8:56*am, Mike > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 7, 5:33*am, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
>
> > > Hi Jim,
>
> > > Please see my notes below.
>
> > > Good Soaring,
>
> > > Paul Remde
> > > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
> > > "Jim White" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > My 3970 that runs Winpilot has died and I need to replace it. I have a
> > > > 3900
> > > > cradle fitted to the cockpit. What can you guys recommend that will run
> > > > Winpilot?
>
> > > > I believe the 5500 series IPAQ will fit in the same cradle. Can anyone
> > > > confirm this? What about other models?
>
> > > *- Your cradle will work with any iPAQ h3800, h3900 or h5000 series Pocket
> > > PC. *Many glider pilots consider the h3800 to be the easiest of those to
> > > read in sunlight. *You can probably find a good used one on eBay.
>
> > > > The IPAQ 214 is more powerful but I would have to feed it by bluetooth.
> > > > Has anyone done this?
>
> > > *- I have done testing with both a CF Card Serial Port and using the K6 Bt
> > > BlueTooth Adapter in my iPAQ 210. *The serial port option is less "elegant"
> > > looking, but works well for all communications and with all soaring
> > > software. *The K6 Bt connection works well with software that has been
> > > written to work with it. *I don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt.

[Richard[_9_]]

On Jan 7, 1:58*pm, wrote:
> On 7 Jan, 20:52, Richard > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 7, 8:56*am, Mike > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 7, 5:33*am, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
>
> > > > Hi Jim,
>
> > > > Please see my notes below.
>
> > > > Good Soaring,
>
> > > > Paul Remde
> > > > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
> > > > "Jim White" > wrote in message
>
> > > ...
>
> > > > > My 3970 that runs Winpilot has died and I need to replace it. I have a
> > > > > 3900
> > > > > cradle fitted to the cockpit. What can you guys recommend that will run
> > > > > Winpilot?
>
> > > > > I believe the 5500 series IPAQ will fit in the same cradle. Can anyone
> > > > > confirm this? What about other models?
>
> > > > *- Your cradle will work with any iPAQ h3800, h3900 or h5000 series Pocket
> > > > PC. *Many glider pilots consider the h3800 to be the easiest of those to
> > > > read in sunlight. *You can probably find a good used one on eBay.
>
> > > > > The IPAQ 214 is more powerful but I would have to feed it by bluetooth.
> > > > > Has anyone done this?
>
> > > > *- I have done testing with both a CF Card Serial Port and using the K6 Bt
> > > > BlueTooth Adapter in my iPAQ 210. *The serial port option is less "elegant"
> > > > looking, but works well for all communications and with all soaring
> > > > software. *The K6 Bt connection works well with software that has been
> > > > written to work with it. *I don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt.
> > > > SeeYou Mobile does.
>
> > > > > Which model has the brightest screen? I am getting older and the eyes
> > > > > don't work as well as they did!
>
> > > > *- Unfortunately, no PDA is great in sunlight. *The iPAQ h3800 would be
> > > > slightly easier to see than your h3900. *The iPAQ hx4700 is bigger, higher
> > > > resolution and a little brighter and the iPAQ 210 is a the same size and
> > > > resolution as the hx4700 and a little brighter. *I think the iPAQ 310 is the
> > > > brightest option.
>
> > > > > Will Winpilot run on the HP314? This has a big bright screen and is very
> > > > > cheap.
>
> > > > *- The K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter works great with the iPAQ 310/314, but I
> > > > don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt.
>
> > > > > Suggestions based on experience would be very welcome.
>
> > > Checking the XCSoar forum it seems that some folks using the HP 310
> > > are not that impressed with the display in sunlight.
> > > It turns out to be no better than a good IPAQ in comparison.
> > > The HP38XX series seems to be best.
> > > The link below will show photo comparisons and opinions from users.
>
> > >http://www.nabble.com/Adding-a-serial-port-to-the-HP-310-to20825419.html
>
> > > Mike
>
> > > > *- If I were you I would first try to find a used h3800 on ebay.
>
> > > > *- If you want a "wired" connection I recommend the iPAQ 210 with a CF
> > > > Serial Card. *You can see details on that here:http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/nimbus.htm
>
> > > > *- If you find the WinPilot will work with the K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter then
> > > > you may want to consider the iPAQ 310/314. *You can see details on the K6 Bt
> > > > here:http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/k6.htm
>
> > > > > Thanks
>
> > > > > Jim- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Mike,
>
> > I have compared the ipaq 310 side to side with the Ipaq 5555 and Ipaq
> > 4700 and I also not impressed the difference in my opinoin is slight.
>
> > During the design of the Craggy Aero Ultimate. I found that many
> > problems with visibitiy are due to the touchscreen overlay. *If you
> > want to ruin a display put a touchsceen overlay on it.
>
> > Luminisity, Contrast Ratio, and *Brightness are also important factors
> > and the ipaqs do not have high enough values. I designed the Ultimate
> > so *Sunlight does not effect the visibilty.
>
> > Richardwww.craggyaero.com
>
> Owning both I can't agree that the difference between the visibility
> of 4700 and 310/314 is slight. *The data says that the 314 display
> puts out about 4 times the light but subjectively I would say that the
> 314 is about twice as readable in bright sunlight *- that is comparing
> with identical SeeYouMobile map displays on both units. *Nothing to
> match the Ultimate I am sure but well worth the cost of a discounted
> 314 (around £90-100 in the UK). *The 314 does not need an additional
> anti-reflective overlay that might reduce visibility.
>
> To digress: the main problem with visibility for any display that is
> mounted above the panel is that all are almost invisible when the sun
> is low and in front of the pilot - the contrast is too great for the
> eyes to deal with irrespective of the luminosity of the display - even
> a map is barely readable in that situation. *I think that is one of
> the reasons that lower, in-panel mounted, LCD displays are so much
> better for visibility. *It seems to have been accepted wisdom that
> PDAs should be mounted high for look-out safety reasons but I doubt
> that the benefits of that positioning are outweighed by the amount of
> time peering at the display to make it out.
>
> John Galloway- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

John,

I guess we really do disagree. I am not using any screen protectors
on the 4700, I have found it is best without one. Maybe the sun in
you part of the world is different or maybe a 310 is different from a
314 or maybe I have a really poor 310. I just made a comparison
outside in direct sunlight between a 310 and a 4700 with no screen
protector. running SeeYou Mobile both on full backlight both with the
same map. With the sun directly shining on the screens the 4700 was
readable the 310 was not readable and I could barly distinguish the
map or labels for turnpoints. The anitglare on the 310 totally washed
out the screen. I do agree with the sun in your eyes both are very
hard to read but the 4700 was still better. Also inside, out of the
sun the 310 was brighter but that does not seem to equate to
readability in the sun.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[[email protected]]

On 8 Jan, 20:13, Richard > wrote:
> On Jan 7, 1:58*pm, wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 7 Jan, 20:52, Richard > wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 7, 8:56*am, Mike > wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 7, 5:33*am, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
>
> > > > > Hi Jim,
>
> > > > > Please see my notes below.
>
> > > > > Good Soaring,
>
> > > > > Paul Remde
> > > > > Cumulus Soaring, Inc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
>
> > > > > "Jim White" > wrote in message
>
> > > > ...
>
> > > > > > My 3970 that runs Winpilot has died and I need to replace it. I have a
> > > > > > 3900
> > > > > > cradle fitted to the cockpit. What can you guys recommend that will run
> > > > > > Winpilot?
>
> > > > > > I believe the 5500 series IPAQ will fit in the same cradle. Can anyone
> > > > > > confirm this? What about other models?
>
> > > > > *- Your cradle will work with any iPAQ h3800, h3900 or h5000 series Pocket
> > > > > PC. *Many glider pilots consider the h3800 to be the easiest of those to
> > > > > read in sunlight. *You can probably find a good used one on eBay.
>
> > > > > > The IPAQ 214 is more powerful but I would have to feed it by bluetooth.
> > > > > > Has anyone done this?
>
> > > > > *- I have done testing with both a CF Card Serial Port and using the K6 Bt
> > > > > BlueTooth Adapter in my iPAQ 210. *The serial port option is less "elegant"
> > > > > looking, but works well for all communications and with all soaring
> > > > > software. *The K6 Bt connection works well with software that has been
> > > > > written to work with it. *I don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt.
> > > > > SeeYou Mobile does.
>
> > > > > > Which model has the brightest screen? I am getting older and the eyes
> > > > > > don't work as well as they did!
>
> > > > > *- Unfortunately, no PDA is great in sunlight. *The iPAQ h3800 would be
> > > > > slightly easier to see than your h3900. *The iPAQ hx4700 is bigger, higher
> > > > > resolution and a little brighter and the iPAQ 210 is a the same size and
> > > > > resolution as the hx4700 and a little brighter. *I think the iPAQ 310 is the
> > > > > brightest option.
>
> > > > > > Will Winpilot run on the HP314? This has a big bright screen and is very
> > > > > > cheap.
>
> > > > > *- The K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter works great with the iPAQ 310/314, but I
> > > > > don't know if WinPilot supports the K6 Bt.
>
> > > > > > Suggestions based on experience would be very welcome.
>
> > > > Checking the XCSoar forum it seems that some folks using the HP 310
> > > > are not that impressed with the display in sunlight.
> > > > It turns out to be no better than a good IPAQ in comparison.
> > > > The HP38XX series seems to be best.
> > > > The link below will show photo comparisons and opinions from users.
>
> > > >http://www.nabble.com/Adding-a-serial-port-to-the-HP-310-to20825419.html
>
> > > > Mike
>
> > > > > *- If I were you I would first try to find a used h3800 on ebay..
>
> > > > > *- If you want a "wired" connection I recommend the iPAQ 210 with a CF
> > > > > Serial Card. *You can see details on that here:http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/nimbus.htm
>
> > > > > *- If you find the WinPilot will work with the K6 Bt BlueTooth Adapter then
> > > > > you may want to consider the iPAQ 310/314. *You can see details on the K6 Bt
> > > > > here:http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/k6.htm
>
> > > > > > Thanks
>
> > > > > > Jim- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Mike,
>
> > > I have compared the ipaq 310 side to side with the Ipaq 5555 and Ipaq
> > > 4700 and I also not impressed the difference in my opinoin is slight.
>
> > > During the design of the Craggy Aero Ultimate. I found that many
> > > problems with visibitiy are due to the touchscreen overlay. *If you
> > > want to ruin a display put a touchsceen overlay on it.
>
> > > Luminisity, Contrast Ratio, and *Brightness are also important factors
> > > and the ipaqs do not have high enough values. I designed the Ultimate
> > > so *Sunlight does not effect the visibilty.
>
> > > Richardwww.craggyaero.com
>
> > Owning both I can't agree that the difference between the visibility
> > of 4700 and 310/314 is slight. *The data says that the 314 display
> > puts out about 4 times the light but subjectively I would say that the
> > 314 is about twice as readable in bright sunlight *- that is comparing
> > with identical SeeYouMobile map displays on both units. *Nothing to
> > match the Ultimate I am sure but well worth the cost of a discounted
> > 314 (around £90-100 in the UK). *The 314 does not need an additional
> > anti-reflective overlay that might reduce visibility.
>
> > To digress: the main problem with visibility for any display that is
> > mounted above the panel is that all are almost invisible when the sun
> > is low and in front of the pilot - the contrast is too great for the
> > eyes to deal with irrespective of the luminosity of the display - even
> > a map is barely readable in that situation. *I think that is one of
> > the reasons that lower, in-panel mounted, LCD displays are so much
> > better for visibility. *It seems to have been accepted wisdom that
> > PDAs should be mounted high for look-out safety reasons but I doubt
> > that the benefits of that positioning are outweighed by the amount of
> > time peering at the display to make it out.
>
> > John Galloway- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> John,
>
> I guess we really do disagree. *I am not using any screen protectors
> on the 4700, I have found it is best without one. *Maybe the sun in
> you part of the world is different or maybe a 310 is different from a
> 314 or maybe I have a really poor 310. * *I just made a comparison
> outside in direct sunlight between a 310 and a 4700 with no screen
> protector. running SeeYou Mobile both on full backlight both with the
> same map. * With the sun *directly shining on the screens the 4700 was
> readable the 310 was not readable and *I could barly distinguish the
> map or labels for turnpoints. *The anitglare on the 310 totally washed
> out the screen. * I do agree with the sun in your eyes both are very
> hard to read but the 4700 was still better. *Also inside, out of the
> sun the 310 was brighter but that does not seem to equate to
> readability in the sun.
>
> Richardwww.craggyaero.com

The transflectve display in the 4700 certainly responds well to sun
directly on the screen - in fact the backlight is not needed in that
situation - whereas the transmissive display in the 314 needs maximum
backlight. Most of the time, for me, the problem with the 4700 is
that in general ambient bright light from most sun directions other
than directly over the shoulder onto the screen, the screen is barely
visible. I resorted to flip-up sun specs so that I could view the
4700 screen through clear lenses and use the flipped up lenses as a
sort of sun-visor.

Happily it looks as if this may all be moot as I see that yesterday
there was launched a netbook computer with a 5 inch 800x480 OLED touch
screen, so one hopes that properly sunlight useable low power screens
in simpler devices may soon follow:

http://www.dynamism.com/?gclid=COWbw53s_5cCFQZinAodQ2EwDA#Product=oqo2plus

http://www.oqo.com/intl/

John Galloway