EW Logger

[[email protected]]

Hi,
I have a question regarding the ew logger: the place it has it
listed up for sale differentiates between the engine version and a
pure glider version. Mine will be used mostly in the glider, but I'd
like have the ability to use it in a motorized glider as well, for
vacations, training etc. C302A has the same option when purchased.
Does anyone have experience with any unwanted motorized recording when
being in a pure glider and vice-versa?

Thanks,

GK

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 9, 9:57*am, wrote:
> Does anyone have experience with any unwanted motorized recording when
> being in a pure glider and vice-versa?

I have, several times, had to ask OLC to adjust my scoring because the
flight was limited by evidence of engine run. I fly an ASW-28 with a
Cambridge 302. I have no engine.

I think Cambridge has a fix to change the characteristics of the 302
engine noise detection but I do not have that.

Andy

[[email protected]]

All new EW Loggers are engine noise enabled with ED card.

Tom Knauff
Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 9, 8:57*am, wrote:
> Hi,
> * I have a question regarding the ew logger: the place it has it
> listed up for sale differentiates between the engine version and a
> pure glider version. Mine will be used mostly in the glider, but I'd
> like have the ability to use it in a motorized glider as well, for
> vacations, training etc. C302A has the same option when purchased.
> Does anyone have experience with any unwanted motorized recording when
> being in a pure glider and vice-versa?
>
> Thanks,
>
> GK


I don't see why you are worried. I would be surprised if there is an
issue with the ENL recording, sometimes you might see noise spikes if
you have the recorder by an open canopy vent or similar. However if
you are flying a pure glider I don't see how it becomes a real
problem. If it's a badge or national flight the badge processing folks
should grock it's a pure glider. Have the OO write them a nice note if
you are worried about this. I don't know what OLC does, but this
should be a rare problem if at all and OLC support seems very
responsive to fixing issues, so submit the flight and if there is a
problem let them know. I'd hope that the logic that is already built
into OLC that knows to require ENL recording for a motorglider already
knows to ignore ENL excursions for pure gliders (but I'm not sure).

I was not aware the Cambridge 302A (the 302 variant with no vario) has
an option for ENL, I believe all Cambridge 300 series computers/
loggers have ENL recording. The Cambridge 302-MG variant is intended
for motorgliders and has an external speaker for the vario/STF audio.
This allows you to hear the vario over the engine but is unrelated to
ENL per se (although it may reduce pickup of the audio vario, but the
basic 302 seems pretty good at that already). All versions of the
Cambridge 302 have ENL (engine noise level) recording AFAIK.


Darryl

[[email protected]]

> I was not aware the Cambridge 302A (the 302 variant with no vario) has
> an option for ENL,

- Sorry, I misspelled the name of the instrument. I meant the vario/
flight recorder 302 from Cambridge.

Thanks,

Gregg

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 9, 10:23*am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:

> I was not aware the Cambridge 302A (the 302 variant with no vario) has
> an option for ENL, I believe all Cambridge 300 series computers/
> loggers have ENL recording. The Cambridge 302-MG variant is intended
> for motorgliders and has an external speaker for the vario/STF audio.
> This allows you to hear the vario over the engine but is unrelated to
> ENL per se (although it may reduce pickup of the audio vario, but the
> basic 302 seems pretty good at that already). All versions of the
> Cambridge 302 have ENL (engine noise level) recording AFAIK.


Early deliveries of the 302 did not include ENL as it had not been
fully developed or approved. Some customers, including myself, had
ENL retrofitted when it became available. The ENL mod required
elimination of the internal speaker and forced the use of an external
speaker. At that time the ENL retrofit was no cost since Cambridge
had marketed the 302 as having ENL capability.

When ENL became available Cambridge then marketed 2 versions of the
302, one with ENL, and one without. ENL was an additional cost
option.

Perhaps the design has changed since then and ENL is now available in
conjunction with an internal speaker.

Andy

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 9, 9:45*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Jan 9, 10:23*am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
> > I was not aware the Cambridge 302A (the 302 variant with no vario) has
> > an option for ENL, I believe all Cambridge 300 series computers/
> > loggers have ENL recording. The Cambridge 302-MG variant is intended
> > for motorgliders and has an external speaker for the vario/STF audio.
> > This allows you to hear the vario over the engine but is unrelated to
> > ENL per se (although it may reduce pickup of the audio vario, but the
> > basic 302 seems pretty good at that already). All versions of the
> > Cambridge 302 have ENL (engine noise level) recording AFAIK.
>
> Early deliveries of the 302 did not include ENL as it had not been
> fully developed or approved. *Some customers, including myself, had
> ENL retrofitted when it became available. *The ENL mod required
> elimination of the internal speaker and forced the use of an external
> speaker. *At that time the ENL retrofit was no cost since Cambridge
> had marketed the 302 as having ENL capability.
>
> When ENL became available Cambridge then marketed 2 versions of the
> 302, one with ENL, and one without. *ENL was an additional cost
> option.
>
> Perhaps the design has changed since then and ENL is now available in
> conjunction with an internal speaker.
>
> Andy

Andy

Thanks for the background. My (non-MG version) 302 from ~3 years ago
had ENL recording. IGC files claim ENL in the I record (extended data)
and as data in the B records. Now wether it spent most of it's time
recording it's own internal vario speaker and was kind of usless for
any real ENL recording is another point. I'm basing my entire
experience that plain 302's, at least in the last few years, have ENL
on that one transponder. Is this right?

If all 302s now have ENL then I read the Cambridge 302 approval
document as kind of ambiguious since it talks about motorglider
approval for the 302 "with ENL option" but if all 302 now do record
ENL do we assume they would be usable in principle for all badges and
records in motorgliders as per the approval document. Or does it
really mean the approval is only for the MG version with an external
speaker? Seems the approval doc could do with a some clarification if
the later is the case. (or am I missing something? Marc?).

Darryl

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 9, 12:54*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> If all 302s now have ENL then I read the Cambridge 302 approval
> document as kind of ambiguious

The Cambridge web site lists 4 different 302 models. One distinction
is the units (kts or m/s) used. The other distinction is whether ENL
is included. ENL is still listed as an extra cost option. I see no
reference to a motor glider version (as being different from a unit
with ENL)

Andy

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

It is my understanding that older versions of the 302 that were made before
the ENL approval, can and do record engine noise level. After the approval
was received, they started shipping 2 versions. The non-ENL version does
not record engine noise level. The ENL version has an external speaker and
does record ENL.

The 302A is available in only one version. It is always ENL enabled.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"Darryl Ramm" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 9, 9:45 am, Andy > wrote:
> On Jan 9, 10:23 am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
> > I was not aware the Cambridge 302A (the 302 variant with no vario) has
> > an option for ENL, I believe all Cambridge 300 series computers/
> > loggers have ENL recording. The Cambridge 302-MG variant is intended
> > for motorgliders and has an external speaker for the vario/STF audio.
> > This allows you to hear the vario over the engine but is unrelated to
> > ENL per se (although it may reduce pickup of the audio vario, but the
> > basic 302 seems pretty good at that already). All versions of the
> > Cambridge 302 have ENL (engine noise level) recording AFAIK.
>
> Early deliveries of the 302 did not include ENL as it had not been
> fully developed or approved. Some customers, including myself, had
> ENL retrofitted when it became available. The ENL mod required
> elimination of the internal speaker and forced the use of an external
> speaker. At that time the ENL retrofit was no cost since Cambridge
> had marketed the 302 as having ENL capability.
>
> When ENL became available Cambridge then marketed 2 versions of the
> 302, one with ENL, and one without. ENL was an additional cost
> option.
>
> Perhaps the design has changed since then and ENL is now available in
> conjunction with an internal speaker.
>
> Andy

Andy

Thanks for the background. My (non-MG version) 302 from ~3 years ago
had ENL recording. IGC files claim ENL in the I record (extended data)
and as data in the B records. Now wether it spent most of it's time
recording it's own internal vario speaker and was kind of usless for
any real ENL recording is another point. I'm basing my entire
experience that plain 302's, at least in the last few years, have ENL
on that one transponder. Is this right?

If all 302s now have ENL then I read the Cambridge 302 approval
document as kind of ambiguious since it talks about motorglider
approval for the 302 "with ENL option" but if all 302 now do record
ENL do we assume they would be usable in principle for all badges and
records in motorgliders as per the approval document. Or does it
really mean the approval is only for the MG version with an external
speaker? Seems the approval doc could do with a some clarification if
the later is the case. (or am I missing something? Marc?).

Darryl

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 9, 12:26*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Jan 9, 12:54*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
> > If all 302s now have ENL then I read the Cambridge 302 approval
> > document as kind of ambiguious
>
> The Cambridge web site lists 4 different 302 models. One distinction
> is the units (kts or m/s) used. The other distinction is whether ENL
> is included. *ENL is still listed as an extra cost option. *I see no
> reference to a motor glider version (as being different from a unit
> with ENL)
>
> Andy

Andy

I just went and grabbed a few IGC files from people I know who have
Cambridge 302's in their gliders and I assume they are the non
motorglider versions. While they show "ENL" in the I record they
record zeros in the B record ENL field. I'm starting to think maybe I
had an earlier version, or somehow it got mixed up with an MG
version. Paul's post helps explain why there may be confusion about
this.

BTW many of the resellers of the C302 seem to call the motor glider/
ENL version the 302E-MG not 302E-ENL. (E for english/knots in this
case).

Thanks



Darryl

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 9, 2:04*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> *Paul's post helps explain why there may be confusion about
> this.

Yes, based on that post I assume that my 302 was delivered to me with
an unapproved but functioning ENL and the the retrofit I had done was
to change the existing ENL to an approved configuration.

Andy