That Schleicher canopy thing again

[Tuno]

Before a test flight yesterday I noticed I wasn't getting anything out
of the radio speaker in my not-yet-one-year-young ASG-29. Volume up,
squelch down, nothing.

Last spring I had problems with the flap position sensor not working
when the canopy was open. (I think it still has the problem -- I gave
up checking with the canopy up.)

But when I put the canopy down yesterday, the speaker worked.

wtf. This seems like too much of a coincidence. Has anyone experienced
any similar problems in a recent Schleicher?

~ted/2NO

[Gregg Ballou]

At 14:23 10 January 2009, Tuno wrote:
>Before a test flight yesterday I noticed I wasn't getting anything out
>of the radio speaker in my not-yet-one-year-young ASG-29. Volume up,
>squelch down, nothing.
>
>Last spring I had problems with the flap position sensor not working
>when the canopy was open. (I think it still has the problem -- I gave
>up checking with the canopy up.)
>
>But when I put the canopy down yesterday, the speaker worked.
>
>wtf. This seems like too much of a coincidence. Has anyone experienced
>any similar problems in a recent Schleicher?
>
>~ted/2NO
>
Stealth safety gear- Nothing works with the canopy open so you don't go
flying without closing it.

[Udo Rumpf[_2_]]

Make sure the radio is locked into the case positively. Push firmly while
setting the locking screw. Also check to see that nothing interferes with
the radio sliding to the back and engage the plug 100%
Experiment by moving the radio in and out a millimetre or two to see if it
makes good contact with the plug in the back.
Udo

At 14:23 10 January 2009, Tuno wrote:
>Before a test flight yesterday I noticed I wasn't getting anything out
>of the radio speaker in my not-yet-one-year-young ASG-29. Volume up,
>squelch down, nothing.
>
>Last spring I had problems with the flap position sensor not working
>when the canopy was open. (I think it still has the problem -- I gave
>up checking with the canopy up.)
>
>But when I put the canopy down yesterday, the speaker worked.
>
>wtf. This seems like too much of a coincidence. Has anyone experienced
>any similar problems in a recent Schleicher?
>
>~ted/2NO
>

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 10, 7:23*am, Tuno > wrote:
> This seems like too much of a coincidence. Has anyone experienced
> any similar problems in a recent Schleicher?

My 28 uses the factory speaker and power wiring but all the other
electrical wiring was installed by myself. I have experienced no
electrical problems.

On my 28 the speaker wires and the battery power wires run through the
fuselage canopy rails so the routing into the hinged instrument pod is
different from the air data lines which run under the seat pan. That
wire routing also makes them hard to service as the rails are foam
filled somewhere aft of the air vent. I found that out when I tried
to run the microphone lead the same way as the speaker wires.

Andy

[Jim White[_2_]]

At 15:21 10 January 2009, Andy wrote:
>On Jan 10, 7:23=A0am, Tuno wrote:
>> This seems like too much of a coincidence. Has anyone experienced
>> any similar problems in a recent Schleicher?
>
Ted

On my 27 all the wires from the panel to the fus run through a single
multiway connector behind the panel. When the canopy goes up / down so
does the panel and the tensions on the connector change slightly. Whenever
I have experienced problems such as you describe a little switch cleaner /
lubricant sprayed onto the male / female parts of the connector has done
the trick.

Jim

[Larry Goddard]

"Best practices" with wiring is to _never_ place a connector where it
can get
tugged at by moving cables. Immobilize the wiring on both sides of the
connector.

Special design and care should be taken when you need to flex a wire or
wire bundle.

Larry


"Jim White" > wrote in message
:

> At 15:21 10 January 2009, Andy wrote:
> >On Jan 10, 7:23=A0am, Tuno wrote:
> >> This seems like too much of a coincidence. Has anyone experienced
> >> any similar problems in a recent Schleicher?
> >
> Ted
>
> On my 27 all the wires from the panel to the fus run through a single
> multiway connector behind the panel. When the canopy goes up / down so
> does the panel and the tensions on the connector change slightly. Whenever
> I have experienced problems such as you describe a little switch cleaner /
> lubricant sprayed onto the male / female parts of the connector has done
> the trick.
>
> Jim

[bumper]

The wiring bundle going from the panel to the fuselage flexes at the hinge
point as the canopy is opened/closed. Some of the wires in the bundle on my
ship are pretty tight as they are run on the outside of this bend radius.

I had one of the small wires to the gear/spoiler alarm fail due to this.
When I replaced this wiring, and to install additional wiring, I first
installed a flexible plastic conduit (thin wall Teflon tubing from
McMaster-Carr) pushed from behind the panel forward passed the hinge point.
Solved the problem.

To see if a broken wire is the problem, slowly open/close the canopy with
the radio on and squelch off - - you've probably done this already. If sound
intermittent. Then remove canopy, and do the same with panel only. Then with
speaker working, tug on wires etc. Check speaker wires with ohm meter.

bumper
ASH26E
zz
Minden
"Tuno" > wrote in message
...
> Before a test flight yesterday I noticed I wasn't getting anything out
> of the radio speaker in my not-yet-one-year-young ASG-29. Volume up,
> squelch down, nothing.
>
> Last spring I had problems with the flap position sensor not working
> when the canopy was open. (I think it still has the problem -- I gave
> up checking with the canopy up.)
>
> But when I put the canopy down yesterday, the speaker worked.
>
> wtf. This seems like too much of a coincidence. Has anyone experienced
> any similar problems in a recent Schleicher?
>
> ~ted/2NO

[Tuno]

With the canopy off, tilting the panel up reaches a point where the
speaker engages. Just above this point, with the speaker off, if I
push down very gently on the wire bundle where it can be reached just
fore of where the bundle exits the panel structure, I can make it
toggle on/off. And I mean *very* gently.

All this points to a b0rken wire ... just hard to imagine having two
wires to two places having the same problem on a new glider.

I can tell that the wire bundle at that location gets quite a bit of
stress when the panel is up. Hopefully the factory is tuning into
this ...

2NO

[[email protected]]

On Jan 10, 11:23*am, Tuno > wrote:
> With the canopy off, tilting the panel up reaches a point where the
> speaker engages. Just above this point, with the speaker off, if I
> push down very gently on the wire bundle where it can be reached just
> fore of where the bundle exits the panel structure, I can make it
> toggle on/off. And I mean *very* gently.
>
> All this points to a b0rken wire ... just hard to imagine having two
> wires to two places having the same problem on a new glider.
>
> I can tell that the wire bundle at that location gets quite a bit of
> stress when the panel is up. Hopefully the factory is tuning into
> this ...
>
> 2NO

Next step is probably to check the actual continuity end to end. The
wires that run through molded parts of the fuselage would need to be
spliced I guess. You might be able to pull an new one through while
yanking the old one out, but that's risky methinks.

Do you think the wires got damaged in last summer's hard landing? I'm
trying to visualize that but having a hard time with it. More likely
on the radio a broken pin in the connector - I had that happen many
years ago on a vario. There's more ways to get shock damage when you
have some mass to throw around.

The other possibility, of course, is Gremlins.

9B

[Tim Taylor]

On Jan 10, 12:23*pm, Tuno > wrote:
> With the canopy off, tilting the panel up reaches a point where the
> speaker engages. Just above this point, with the speaker off, if I
> push down very gently on the wire bundle where it can be reached just
> fore of where the bundle exits the panel structure, I can make it
> toggle on/off. And I mean *very* gently.
>
> All this points to a b0rken wire ... just hard to imagine having two
> wires to two places having the same problem on a new glider.
>
> I can tell that the wire bundle at that location gets quite a bit of
> stress when the panel is up. Hopefully the factory is tuning into
> this ...
>
> 2NO

A friend had a 29 new in 2007 that had the same problem with the
radio. Not sure which wire, but stopped transmitting after lass than
10 flights because a wire broke.

[Tuno]

I was doing that while you were typing, but continuity tests of the
wires to the speaker were inconclusive -- I get positive continuity on
both wires on everything behind the panel! Now that just twists my
noodle. (Unless one expects the terminals on a 4 ohm speaker to test
positive continuity through the speaker. Alas, this is not software.)

[vaughn]

"Tuno" > wrote in message
...
> (Unless one expects the terminals on a 4 ohm speaker to test
> positive continuity through the speaker.)

Yes, that is exactly what I would expect. (unless I misunderstand your
meaning)

Vaughn

[Tuno]

The problem I'm having with my wire continuity check is that when I
connect one lead of the multimeter to either terminal on the speaker,
then touch the other lead to ANY conducting component behind the panel
(any wire, any post, on either side of the battery, + or -), I get a
continuity tone (with the canopy up or down). So I'm not even able to
verify that I'm testing the right wire.

[Tuno]

The wire between the radio and its speaker is confirmed b0rken
somewhere unreachable. The only option I see is to route a new wire
along the inside cockpit wall. (The wire pair from the speaker through
the cockpit wall is immobile ... no chance of pulling a new one
through.)

If radios and speakers only used blueteeth!

2NO

[[email protected]]

On Jan 10, 12:22*pm, Tuno > wrote:
> I was doing that while you were typing, but continuity tests of the
> wires to the speaker were inconclusive -- I get positive continuity on
> both wires on everything behind the panel! Now that just twists my
> noodle. (Unless one expects the terminals on a 4 ohm speaker to test
> positive continuity through the speaker. Alas, this is not software.)

I hate intermittent problems. Continuity held while doing the canopy
dance and pressing on the harness? I do wonder whether it's a problem
with the connector to the radio. A broken pin will connect and
disconnect with small flexing of the wire applying pressure to the
plug.

Not sure how to test the plug - I guess push a couple of pins into the
speaker wires just outside the plug to see if the speaker voltage goes
to zero right outside the radio or further down the wire.

You could also just order a new glider. ;-)

9B

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 10, 12:48*pm, Tuno > wrote:
> The problem I'm having with my wire continuity check is that when I
> connect one lead of the multimeter to either terminal on the speaker,
> then touch the other lead to ANY conducting component behind the panel
> (any wire, any post, on either side of the battery, + or -), I get a
> continuity tone (with the canopy up or down). So I'm not even able to
> verify that I'm testing the right wire.

Ted

That may be working correctly. The speaker is 4 ohms (an averaged
audio frequency impedance) and will be somewhat less than this at DC .
Your continuity checker depending on what it is might think that the
speaker coil a dead short. Many radios will have once side of the
speaker wired to an audio ground (the Becker VHF do for example) and
depending on how they are installed it's likely this just gets
connected to common ground for everything. Use an accurate multimeter/
resistance meter (without power applied to the wiring) or unsolder the
leads on the speaker. Trying to pull that rubber speaker wire though
anything will be a pain in the neck even if it was not otherwise
jammed in place.

I'll be happy to make an offer for this clearly problematic ASG-29 to
take it off you hands if it's really annoying you. Let me know what
day would be good to pick it up.

BTW I would like to find the engineer who thought the wiring bundle
that runs into Schleicher panels was a good idea, slide a couple of
big tubes of heatshink over him and zap him with a heat gun.


Darryl

[bumper]

"Tuno" > wrote The only option I see is to route a new
wire
> along the inside cockpit wall. (The wire pair from the speaker through
> the cockpit wall is immobile ... no chance of pulling a new one
> through.)

> 2NO


Tuno,

You can use the plastic conduit trick to get the wire from behind panel to
the nose of the ship. Then go under the seat panel and remove the gear bay
access panel behind the seat back. There is a wire run cavity at the left
side rear of the cockpit - - though I'm not sure that will help you as it
goes to the compartment just ahead of the engine bay.

Instead, you can run the wires into the gear bay, then up to where you can
go forward into the speaker area. I think (g).

bumper
zz

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 10, 6:10*pm, Tuno > wrote:
> The only option I see is to route a new wire
> along the inside cockpit wall. (The wire pair from the speaker through
> the cockpit wall is immobile ... no chance of pulling a new one
> through.)

Yup, the imobility is due to the foam fill. I'm pretty sure you can
run under the seat pan and get to the open aft end of the canopy
rail. The speaker wires drop down from the aft end of the canopy
rail into the speaker panel. That would be better than running it in
the cockpit but will take a bit longer to do. (assuming same as my 28
where I used that routing for my boom mic lead)

Andy

[BravoCharlie]

On Jan 11, 7:48*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Jan 10, 6:10*pm, Tuno > wrote:
>
> > The only option I see is to route a new wire
> > along the inside cockpit wall. (The wire pair from the speaker through
> > the cockpit wall is immobile ... no chance of pulling a new one
> > through.)
>
> Yup, the imobility is due to the foam fill. *I'm pretty sure you can
> run under the seat pan and get to the open aft end of the canopy
> rail. * The speaker wires drop down from the aft end of the canopy
> rail into the speaker panel. *That would be better than running it in
> the cockpit but will take a bit longer to do. (assuming same as my 28
> where I used that routing for my boom mic lead)
>
> Andy

Lou McDonald had that problem with his near new 29 at Region 9 Parowan
'07 and found that the wiring in the canopy hinge area had a glitch.
That might have been the same issue described by TT. It does sound
like the hinge is common thread.

Good luck and I'll bid a buck more than Darryl,

Bob Caldwell

[Paul Goulding]

To check out the wiring first get a wiring drawing for the connector on the
back of the radio.

Disconnect the connector from the rear of the radio.

Test each wire individually between the pin on the connector and its
destination connection ..remember that the speaker is effectively a short
circuit to dc tests so if the test goes across the speaker it will show up
as a short on the multimeter and one side will be signal ground which in a
glider will be the negative terminal of the battery ..and anything else
connected to -ve or ground.

Paul

[Tuno]

> BTW I would like to find the engineer who thought the wiring bundle
> that runs into Schleicher panels was a good idea, slide a couple of
> big tubes of heatshink over him and zap him with a heat gun.

Probably the same knucklehead who installed the fin tank drain tube
that connects the tank to the dump valve. It was broken at one end
during the installation, and they "repaired" it by applying silicon
seal instead of replacing it with a new tube. The "repair" leaked
badly after one hard landing. A hole had to be cut above the tail
wheel to get access to this tube to replace it. I now have a piece of
automotive radiator hose in my tailboom!

2NO

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 11, 9:12*am, BravoCharlie >
wrote:
> On Jan 11, 7:48*am, Andy > wrote:
>
> > On Jan 10, 6:10*pm, Tuno > wrote:
>
> > > The only option I see is to route a new wire
> > > along the inside cockpit wall. (The wire pair from the speaker through
> > > the cockpit wall is immobile ... no chance of pulling a new one
> > > through.)
>
> > Yup, the imobility is due to the foam fill. *I'm pretty sure you can
> > run under the seat pan and get to the open aft end of the canopy
> > rail. * The speaker wires drop down from the aft end of the canopy
> > rail into the speaker panel. *That would be better than running it in
> > the cockpit but will take a bit longer to do. (assuming same as my 28
> > where I used that routing for my boom mic lead)
>
> > Andy
>
> Lou McDonald had that problem with his near new 29 at Region 9 Parowan
> '07 and found that the wiring in the canopy hinge area had a glitch.
> That might have been the same issue described by TT. *It does sound
> like the hinge is common thread.
>
> Good luck and I'll bid a buck more than Darryl,
>
> Bob Caldwell

Well between the water leaking everywhere, random holes drilled in the
cockpit floor and vertical fin area. Bits of odd-sods plumbing in the
tail. A repaired broken tail boom as well right? (I have images in my
mind of the repaired tail leaning over at some odd angle and the CG
being a foot or so aft or where it should). A radio and god knows what
other electronics that don't work very well. The trailer probably
having lots of miles on it's for it's age.... Maybe it's salvageable
for parts. $1 may make the difference.

Darryl