Gee Bee question

[[email protected]]

I'm studying the Gee Bee series of planes and I have a question that
may be obvious to you, but not me. I know that flying wires are
supposed to be dual for safety purposes. The flying wires on the
outboard part of the wing ( Gee Bee R2 and Z models ) are dual, OK. I
am assuming that the load of these wires goes through the landing gear
strut and back up to the fuselage where it is anchored and therefore
is where the actual load is transferred from. But the wire from the
inboard part of the landing gear strut to the fuselage is only a
single wire. Am I missing something?

Neal

[Ed]

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:57:23 -0800 (PST), wrote:

>I'm studying the Gee Bee series of planes and I have a question that
>may be obvious to you, but not me. I know that flying wires are
>supposed to be dual for safety purposes. The flying wires on the
>outboard part of the wing ( Gee Bee R2 and Z models ) are dual, OK. I
>am assuming that the load of these wires goes through the landing gear
>strut and back up to the fuselage where it is anchored and therefore
>is where the actual load is transferred from. But the wire from the
>inboard part of the landing gear strut to the fuselage is only a
>single wire. Am I missing something?
>
>Neal

I think the dual wires are to prevent any twist to the airfoil whereas
it wouldn't be necessary from the gear to the fuselage

[Ron Wanttaja]

wrote:
> I'm studying the Gee Bee series of planes and I have a question that
> may be obvious to you, but not me. I know that flying wires are
> supposed to be dual for safety purposes. The flying wires on the
> outboard part of the wing ( Gee Bee R2 and Z models ) are dual, OK. I
> am assuming that the load of these wires goes through the landing gear
> strut and back up to the fuselage where it is anchored and therefore
> is where the actual load is transferred from. But the wire from the
> inboard part of the landing gear strut to the fuselage is only a
> single wire. Am I missing something?

Gee Bee wing bracing is very similar to that of Fly Babies.

First, the wires themselves attach to the wing spars. If the wing spar
isn't co-incident with the normal center of pressure, putting ONE set of
wires on either spar will cause the wing panel to twist under load. A
bracing wire on the aft spar is lighter than building the wing so stiff
it doesn't twist.

The center-section bracing wires attach to the opposite side of the
flying wire attachment point on the gear structure. There's no need for
a pair of wires, since there's no torque imparted. If the cross-braces
couldn't attach to the gear structure there, they WOULD need two sets.

Having two separate flying wires also allows them to adjust each wing's
angle of incidence individually. If the plane flies right-wing heavy,
they can tighten the rear flying wire and add a bit of twist to the wing
to make it produce a tad more lift.

Ron Wanttaja

[[email protected]]

On Jan 12, 1:15*am, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
> wrote:
> > I'm studying the Gee Bee series of planes and I have a question that
> > may be obvious to you, but not me. *I know that flying wires are
> > supposed to be dual for safety purposes. *The flying wires on the
> > outboard part of the wing ( Gee Bee R2 and Z models ) are dual, OK. *I
> > am assuming that the load of these wires goes through the landing gear
> > strut and back up to the fuselage where it is anchored and therefore
> > is where the actual load is transferred from. *But the wire from the
> > inboard part of the landing gear strut to the fuselage is only a
> > single wire. *Am I missing something?
>
> Gee Bee wing bracing is very similar to that of Fly Babies.
>
> First, the wires themselves attach to the wing spars. *If the wing spar
> isn't co-incident with the normal center of pressure, putting ONE set of
> wires on either spar will cause the wing panel to twist under load. *A
> bracing wire on the aft spar is lighter than building the wing so stiff
> it doesn't twist.
>
> The center-section bracing wires attach to the opposite side of the
> flying wire attachment point on the gear structure. *There's no need for
> a pair of wires, since there's no torque imparted. *If the cross-braces
> couldn't attach to the gear structure there, they WOULD need two sets.
>
> Having two separate flying wires also allows them to adjust each wing's
> angle of incidence individually. *If the plane flies right-wing heavy,
> they can tighten the rear flying wire and add a bit of twist to the wing
> to make it produce a tad more lift.
>
> Ron Wanttaja

Thanks for the info. I incorrectly assumed the dual wires was for
safety. I know the Pitts S-1 and Christen Eagles have dual wires, but
only at the main spar and I though I read somewhere that they had to
be dual for safety. Obviously these planes can alter their incidence
by adjustments at the outboard wing struts. They must have a
different pressure distribution to keep them from twisting? And
thanks Ron, I saw your explanation of the Fly Baby wire structure on
your web site. Learned quite a bit from that illustration.

Neal

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:57:11 -0800 (PST), wrote:

>On Jan 12, 1:15*am, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > I'm studying the Gee Bee series of planes and I have a question that
>> > may be obvious to you, but not me. *I know that flying wires are
>> > supposed to be dual for safety purposes. *The flying wires on the
>> > outboard part of the wing ( Gee Bee R2 and Z models ) are dual, OK. *I
>> > am assuming that the load of these wires goes through the landing gear
>> > strut and back up to the fuselage where it is anchored and therefore
>> > is where the actual load is transferred from. *But the wire from the
>> > inboard part of the landing gear strut to the fuselage is only a
>> > single wire. *Am I missing something?
>>
>> Gee Bee wing bracing is very similar to that of Fly Babies.
>>
>> First, the wires themselves attach to the wing spars. *If the wing spar
>> isn't co-incident with the normal center of pressure, putting ONE set of
>> wires on either spar will cause the wing panel to twist under load. *A
>> bracing wire on the aft spar is lighter than building the wing so stiff
>> it doesn't twist.
>>
>> The center-section bracing wires attach to the opposite side of the
>> flying wire attachment point on the gear structure. *There's no need for
>> a pair of wires, since there's no torque imparted. *If the cross-braces
>> couldn't attach to the gear structure there, they WOULD need two sets.
>>
>> Having two separate flying wires also allows them to adjust each wing's
>> angle of incidence individually. *If the plane flies right-wing heavy,
>> they can tighten the rear flying wire and add a bit of twist to the wing
>> to make it produce a tad more lift.
>>
>> Ron Wanttaja
>
>Thanks for the info. I incorrectly assumed the dual wires was for
>safety. I know the Pitts S-1 and Christen Eagles have dual wires, but
>only at the main spar and I though I read somewhere that they had to
>be dual for safety. Obviously these planes can alter their incidence
>by adjustments at the outboard wing struts. They must have a
>different pressure distribution to keep them from twisting? And
>thanks Ron, I saw your explanation of the Fly Baby wire structure on
>your web site. Learned quite a bit from that illustration.
>
>Neal

dual wires will *never* be for funk safety.
if one of the wires were to break the transference of load to the
other wire (immediately doubling its stress) would likely cause a
catastrophic failure. far better to have one adequately sized wire.

Stealth Pilot

[Ron Wanttaja]

> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:57:11 -0800 (PST), wrote:

>> Thanks for the info. I incorrectly assumed the dual wires was for
>> safety. I know the Pitts S-1 and Christen Eagles have dual wires, but
>> only at the main spar and I though I read somewhere that they had to
>> be dual for safety. Obviously these planes can alter their incidence
>> by adjustments at the outboard wing struts. They must have a
>> different pressure distribution to keep them from twisting?

When you have a biplane, you've got a lot more choices....those box
structures are pretty strong, just on their own. I fiddle around with
very lightweight RC aircraft, built from 3 mm Depron foam. A single
sheet of the foam isn't strong enough for a wing (unless the plane
weighs only 30 grams or so). But a biplane setup (with 1/32" plywood
cabane and interplane struts) is good for five times the weight, even
without adding bracing.

Stealth Pilot wrote:
> dual wires will *never* be for funk safety.
> if one of the wires were to break the transference of load to the
> other wire (immediately doubling its stress) would likely cause a
> catastrophic failure. far better to have one adequately sized wire.

The Fly Baby has dual bracing wires (e.g., two to the forward spar, two
to the aft) for lower-cost construction. It's important to keep about
the same tension on both wires in the pair. There was a fatal accident
a few years back where the it's suspected someone failed to do that.

Ron Wanttaja

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:21:23 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
> wrote:

>
>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:57:11 -0800 (PST), wrote:
>
>>> Thanks for the info. I incorrectly assumed the dual wires was for
>>> safety. I know the Pitts S-1 and Christen Eagles have dual wires, but
>>> only at the main spar and I though I read somewhere that they had to
>>> be dual for safety. Obviously these planes can alter their incidence
>>> by adjustments at the outboard wing struts. They must have a
>>> different pressure distribution to keep them from twisting?
>
>When you have a biplane, you've got a lot more choices....those box
>structures are pretty strong, just on their own. I fiddle around with
>very lightweight RC aircraft, built from 3 mm Depron foam. A single
>sheet of the foam isn't strong enough for a wing (unless the plane
>weighs only 30 grams or so). But a biplane setup (with 1/32" plywood
>cabane and interplane struts) is good for five times the weight, even
>without adding bracing.
>
>Stealth Pilot wrote:
>> dual wires will *never* be for funk safety.
>> if one of the wires were to break the transference of load to the
>> other wire (immediately doubling its stress) would likely cause a
>> catastrophic failure. far better to have one adequately sized wire.
>
>The Fly Baby has dual bracing wires (e.g., two to the forward spar, two
>to the aft) for lower-cost construction. It's important to keep about
>the same tension on both wires in the pair. There was a fatal accident
>a few years back where the it's suspected someone failed to do that.
>
>Ron Wanttaja

many lessons were learnt after the flybaby was designed.

aviation is fascinating in that if you know the age of the aircraft it
often represents a museum of the aeronautical knowledge at the time.

you may need to see a P3C orion sitting beside a B1 bomber to fully
appreciate it though :-)

Stealth Pilot