Airliner crashes into Hudson River after LGA departure

[Kingfish]

Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...

[Kingfish]

On Jan 15, 4:01*pm, Kingfish > wrote:
> Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
> after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
> can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
> a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...

CNN is reporting all 135 on board got off the plane (and didn't get
wet!) Apparently a flock of geese got in the way soon after takeoff,
and both engines sucked in birds. Damn the luck...

[Guy Elden Jr]

On Jan 15, 4:01*pm, Kingfish > wrote:
> Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
> after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
> can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
> a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...

If you go to

http://www4.passur.com/lga.html

and search to about 15:26pm, you'll see the ill-fated flight. He gets
up to around 3400 feet, and then makes an immediate 180 trying to get
back to La Guardia. Seeing that was impossible, he headed for the
Hudson, and very nearly collided with a Eurocopter flying north at
1000 feet along the river. The copter pilot dodged out of the way,
then circled back to where the plane hit the water.

I'm absolutely astonished that plane didn't flip when it hit the
water. They got real lucky today, as it's absolutely freezing up here
right now.

[Mxsmanic]

Kingfish writes:

> Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
> after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
> can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
> a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...

Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines don't often
fail all on their own.

[Mxsmanic]

Guy Elden Jr writes:

> I'm absolutely astonished that plane didn't flip when it hit the
> water.

Why?

[Shirl]

Kingfish > wrote:
> CNN is reporting all 135 on board got off the plane (and didn't get
> wet!) Apparently a flock of geese got in the way soon after takeoff,
> and both engines sucked in birds. Damn the luck...

Depends how you choose to view it. I'd say their luck was pretty damn
good!

[Darkwing]

"Shirl" > wrote in message
...
> Kingfish > wrote:
>> CNN is reporting all 135 on board got off the plane (and didn't get
>> wet!) Apparently a flock of geese got in the way soon after takeoff,
>> and both engines sucked in birds. Damn the luck...
>
> Depends how you choose to view it. I'd say their luck was pretty damn
> good!

Unless you're a goose than this was an atrocity.

[Darkwing]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...
> Kingfish writes:
>
>> Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
>> after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
>> can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
>> a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>
> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines don't
> often
> fail all on their own.

....and right on queue the resident idiot chimes in.

[Shirl]

Guy Elden Jr writes:
> I'm absolutely astonished that plane didn't flip when it hit the
> water.

Witness said they held the nose up and that it looked like a normal
landing only on water instead of a runway. Amazing job.

[John Smith]

Shirl wrote:
> Witness said they held the nose up and that it looked like a normal
> landing only on water instead of a runway.

Surprise!

[JG]

On Jan 15, 5:02*pm, John Smith > wrote:
> Shirl wrote:
> > Witness said they held the nose up and that it looked like a normal
> > landing only on water instead of a runway.
>
> Surprise!

Who knew, Airbuses float...JG

[John[_23_]]

On Jan 15, 3:12*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Kingfish writes:
> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
> > a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>
> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. *Jet engines don't often
> fail all on their own.

Well, according to http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=busav&id=news/eng08036.xml

By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor stalls/surges
account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine designs in
which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since stall/
surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume that it
would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or simulator
training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or being
exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.

[bod43]

On 16 Jan, 05:37, John > wrote:
> On Jan 15, 3:12*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>
> > Kingfish writes:
> > > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
> > > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
> > > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
> > > a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>
> > Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. *Jet engines don't often
> > fail all on their own.
>
> Well, according tohttp://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=busa...
>
> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor stalls/surges
> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine designs in
> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since stall/
> surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume that it
> would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or simulator
> training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or being
> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.

Hmmm. That article does not mention the word "bird"; and yet
they do happen. There was a similar double engin failure
in Italy only a few months ago. Similar but less wet outcome.
I am also aware of a single engine failure of a commercial jet
in the uk in the last few years. Video on internet.

So, that article does not seem to be identifying bird strikes
as a cause even though they happen.

[Flydive]

John wrote:

>
> Well, according to http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=busav&id=news/eng08036.xml
>
> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor stalls/surges
> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine designs in
> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since stall/
> surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume that it
> would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or simulator
> training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or being
> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.

That's strange, every recurrent we have at lest one or two occurrences
of compressor stall/surge, after v1/rotation.
You should talk to your instructors, it is something to be experienced,
quite wild.

[Mxsmanic]

John writes:

> And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or being
> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.

What types of engine failures are pilots normally exposed to in simulation?

[Ricky]

Hey Anthony, how about an admission of your being wrong (again). Where
do you get this information?

> On Jan 15, 3:12*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:

> > Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. *Jet engines
don't often
> > fail all on their own.
>
> Well, according tohttp://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=busa...
>
> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor stalls/surges
> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
> turbofans.

[Ricky]

On Jan 16, 1:08*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> John writes:
> > And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or being
> > exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.
>
> What types of engine failures are pilots normally exposed to in simulation?

As usual, you divert the discussion AWAY from the false information
you posted. Can you admit you were wrong?

[a[_3_]]

On Jan 16, 4:15*am, Ricky > wrote:
> On Jan 16, 1:08*am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>
> > John writes:
> > > And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or being
> > > exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.
>
> > What types of engine failures are pilots normally exposed to in simulation?
>
> As usual, you divert the discussion AWAY from the false information
> you posted. Can you admit you were wrong?

It's useful to think of Anthony as an insect strike on a windshield
rather than a bird strike on a turbine.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 15, 4:45*pm, "Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Shirl" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Kingfish > wrote:
> >> CNN is reporting all 135 on board got off the plane (and didn't get
> >> wet!) Apparently a flock of geese got in the way soon after takeoff,
> >> and both engines sucked in birds. Damn the luck...
>
> > Depends how you choose to view it. I'd say their luck was pretty damn
> > good!
>
> Unless you're a goose than this was an atrocity.

There were no geese harmed. There was no atrocity. It's all a
fabrication of the goose controlled government media, the mouthpiece
of the Tri-goose Commission.

[[email protected]]

Ricky > wrote:
> Hey Anthony, how about an admission of your being wrong (again). Where
> do you get this information?
>
>> On Jan 15, 3:12Â*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>
> > > Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Â*Jet engines
> don't often
>> > fail all on their own.
>>
>> Well, according tohttp://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=busa...
>>
>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor stalls/surges
>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>> turbofans.

Let me make a guess...

He once read an article on the Internet about engine failures within
some contraints and then, since things like context are alien to him,
applied that to all engines on all airplanes in all circumstances.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Kingfish]

On Jan 15, 4:55*pm, Guy Elden Jr > wrote:
> I'm absolutely astonished that plane didn't flip when it hit the
> water. They got real lucky today, as it's absolutely freezing up here
> right now.


I wouldn't expect the plane to flip, unless the pilot tried to ditch
with the gear down. Yeah, it was cold yesterday (I'm in southern CT)
I don't know if anybody ended up in the water, but just thinking about
it makes me cringe.

[Tech Support]

Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.

Big John

************************************************** ************
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:54:53 -0700, Shirl >
wrote:

>Guy Elden Jr writes:
>> I'm absolutely astonished that plane didn't flip when it hit the
>> water.
>
>Witness said they held the nose up and that it looked like a normal
>landing only on water instead of a runway. Amazing job.

[John Smith]

Tech Support wrote:

> Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.

How many airliners have you successfully ditched? So who are you to
second-guess this astonishingly perfect outcome?

> Big John

Way too big.

[Tech Support]

Again. Talk without correct data.

In my thousands of jet hours only saw mechanical engine failures
(turbine wheel and blades, compressor blades, generator/starter
failures, loss of oil pressure, etc,) Rare but all happened.

Had a few bird strikes, up to duck size, in turbine and on air frame
with not enough damage to prevent further flight and routine landing.

My last flight, on active duty, was in a T-39 going into the Springs
with a full load of passengers.

Lost oil pressure on starboard engine over Omaha and shut down. Flew
on into the Springs and made single engine landing. Just another day
in the office.

Big John

************************************************** ***************
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:12:23 +0100, Mxsmanic >
wrote:

>Kingfish writes:
>
>> Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
>> after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
>> can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
>> a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>
>Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines don't often
>fail all on their own.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

<Tech Support> wrote in message
...
> Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.
>
> Big John
>
> ************************************************** ************

I wonder if the gear was still down from take off, and they didn't have time
or power to lift it.

[Kingfish]

On Jan 16, 11:20*am, Tech Support <> wrote:
> Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.
>

I know what usually happens if a GA plane ditches with the gear down,
and only assume the same would happen to a big transport. After
hearing more about the pilot's background and experience I seriously
doubt he would make that kind of mistake. Witnesses are notoriously
unreliable, especially the casual observer, non-aviation type. At any
rate, the captain made the right decision when put in a tight spot.
The jet could have made it back to LGA on one engine easily enough,
losing both is a nightmare scenario.

[Darkwing]

"Kingfish" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 16, 11:20 am, Tech Support <> wrote:
> Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.
>
>
>I know what usually happens if a GA plane ditches with the gear down,
>and only assume the same would happen to a big transport. After
>hearing more about the pilot's background and experience I seriously
>doubt he would make that kind of mistake. Witnesses are notoriously
>unreliable, especially the casual observer, non-aviation type. At any
>rate, the captain made the right decision when put in a tight spot.
>The jet could have made it back to LGA on one engine easily enough,
>losing both is a nightmare scenario.
>

That why you need to get as high as you can as fast as you can especially in
a populated area, altitiude is insurance.

[Ron Wanttaja]

Kingfish wrote:
> On Jan 16, 11:20 am, Tech Support <> wrote:
>> Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.
>>
>
> I know what usually happens if a GA plane ditches with the gear down,
> and only assume the same would happen to a big transport.

I'm not sure. The "flat plate area" of the tires is pretty small,
relative to the total kinetic energy of a twin-engine airliner. Any
effect the mains have will apply will pale in comparison to the engines
hitting a half-second later. The nosewheel will hit *after* the mains
are significantly in the water; again, I don't think they'll contribute
much more.

*If* the plane had the gear down, the simple fact is, it worked and no
one was seriously hurt. The pilot's batting a thousand as far as I'm
concerned....

Ron Wanttaja

[Chas[_5_]]

"Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote in message
...
>
> "Kingfish" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Jan 16, 11:20 am, Tech Support <> wrote:
>> Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.
>>
>>
>>I know what usually happens if a GA plane ditches with the gear down,
>>and only assume the same would happen to a big transport. After
>>hearing more about the pilot's background and experience I seriously
>>doubt he would make that kind of mistake. Witnesses are notoriously
>>unreliable, especially the casual observer, non-aviation type. At any
>>rate, the captain made the right decision when put in a tight spot.
>>The jet could have made it back to LGA on one engine easily enough,
>>losing both is a nightmare scenario.
>>
>
> That why you need to get as high as you can as fast as you can especially
> in a populated area, altitiude is insurance.
>

Unless the following was photoshopped, gear was up.
To this layperson, looks like perfect nose-up pitch

http://abcnews.go.com/US/popup?id=6657456&contentIndex=1&start=false&page=2

[Viperdoc[_3_]]

One of our KC-135's sucked up a seagull- they said it smelled like burnt
fish inside the plane, or so the story goes.

Anthony sure writes like an expert considering that he has zero flying
hours, doesn't he?

[Tech Support]

John

How many jet hours do you have?

How much training in ditching do you have?

Have you gone to any Navy school where ditching technique is taught?

Msc., msc., msc.

Did you read my post? I said the gear down was reported by a so called
witness and repeated in the media. I then said if that was a correct
report it was a bad decission.

Since bird did not tuck and dive on touch down I seriously doubt the
gear was down.

If pilot was unable to retract gear after losing both engines then he
had no choice.

Bottom line is that he did a good job with what he had available.

Big John

6 pm news tonight showed bird before ditching and gear was up.

I really didn't expect an old F-4 jock to ditch with the gear down if
he had an option.

************************************************** **

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:47:12 +0100, John Smith
> wrote:

>Tech Support wrote:
>
>> Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.
>
>How many airliners have you successfully ditched? So who are you to
>second-guess this astonishingly perfect outcome?
>
>> Big John
>
>Way too big.

[Tech Support]

Yep!

Big John

************************************************** **********************
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:59:10 -0600, "Viperdoc"
> wrote:

>One of our KC-135's sucked up a seagull- they said it smelled like burnt
>fish inside the plane, or so the story goes.
>
>Anthony sure writes like an expert considering that he has zero flying
>hours, doesn't he?
>

[Dana M. Hague[_2_]]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:08:40 +0100, Mxsmanic >
wrote:

>What types of engine failures are pilots normally exposed to in simulation?

The kind where the engine stops running...

-Dana

--
But I don't have an "any key" on my computer!

[Tech Support]

Just received the following from a long time very experienced pilot
friend of mine.

His comment about this one flight earned him a life time pay is a good
one.

Quote

Great job by the Air Bus driver. As always, the media passed right on
over what he did that marked him as a REAL pilot :-) After he went
post impact and lost both fans, ATC gave him a clear corridor into
Teterboro. He had scant seconds to make the decision and he made the
right one. He looked at Teterboro, glanced at the altimeter, figured
the angles and did the math. He decided in that nano second that he
couldn't make Teterboro, and THAT decision made his entire salary for
a lifetime career. The rest was just good flying.
You can always count on the media to miss the main point

Unquote

Big John

************************************************** ******

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:59:10 -0600, "Viperdoc"
> wrote:

>One of our KC-135's sucked up a seagull- they said it smelled like burnt
>fish inside the plane, or so the story goes.
>
>Anthony sure writes like an expert considering that he has zero flying
>hours, doesn't he?
>

[a[_3_]]

On Jan 15, 5:32*pm, Shirl > wrote:
> Kingfish > wrote:
> > CNN is reporting all 135 on board got off the plane (and didn't get
> > wet!) Apparently a flock of geese got in the way soon after takeoff,
> > and both engines sucked in birds. Damn the luck...
>
> Depends how you choose to view it. I'd say their luck was pretty damn
> good!

Once, at general aviation speeds, we saw a flock of what seemed to be
canada geese at constant bearing out our windscreen. Sailers say
"Constant bearing means collision". We saw them with enough seconds in
hand to reduce our rate of climb and got under them.

If one is carefully looking out the window of a jet like this, would
it be likely a flock (as opposed to a single bird) might be seen in
time to modify the climb angle? I'm guessing after rotation the crew's
attention is more inside the cockpit than outside, especially in the
controlled airspace around major airports. It would be an interesting
simulation in include flocks of geese near airports, wouldn't it?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Guy Elden Jr writes:
>
>> I'm absolutely astonished that plane didn't flip when it hit the
>> water.
>
> Why?
>

You are a moron



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> <Tech Support> wrote in message
> ...
>> Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.
>>
>> Big John
>>
>> ************************************************** ************
>
> I wonder if the gear was still down from take off, and they didn't
> have time or power to lift it.
>
>
>



I'll bet you do!

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Kingfish writes:
>
>> Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
>> after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
>> can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
>> a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>
> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines don't
> often fail all on their own.
>

You're a moron


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

John > wrote in
:

> On Jan 15, 3:12*pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>> Kingfish writes:
>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure
>> > picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>>
>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. *Jet engines
>> don't
> often
>> fail all on their own.
>
> Well, according to
> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
channel=busav&
> id=news/eng08036.xml
>
> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor stalls/surges
> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine designs in
> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since
> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume that
> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or simulator
> training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or being
> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.
>

I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle and/or
shutting down anyhow.
Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine straight
away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away happily enough
until you pulled the thrust lever back.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Tech Support <> wrote in :

> Just received the following from a long time very experienced pilot
> friend of mine.
>
> His comment about this one flight earned him a life time pay is a good
> one.
>
> Quote
>
> Great job by the Air Bus driver. As always, the media passed right on
> over what he did that marked him as a REAL pilot :-) After he went
> post impact and lost both fans, ATC gave him a clear corridor into
> Teterboro. He had scant seconds to make the decision and he made the
> right one. He looked at Teterboro, glanced at the altimeter, figured
> the angles and did the math. He decided in that nano second that he
> couldn't make Teterboro, and THAT decision made his entire salary for
> a lifetime career. The rest was just good flying.
> You can always count on the media to miss the main point
>


Well, I thnk that decision got made for him! but yeah, it was all just
stick and rudder from that point on and I'm sure the guy would be the first
to say he just did what he had to. It'll be an interesting one to read
about, but it's basically the same scenario as deadsticking any airplane.
I think he'd also be the firts to point out that they were extraordinarily
lucky. none of this Is meant to detract in any way from the guy's
achievement, of course, but the media does talk so much BS with this sort
of thing. ..


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> John > wrote in
> :
>
>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>> Kingfish writes:
>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure
>>> > picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>>>
>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines
>>> don't
>> often
>>> fail all on their own.
>>
>> Well, according to
>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
> channel=busav&
>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>
>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor stalls/surges
>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine designs in
>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since
>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume that
>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or simulator
>> training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or being
>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.
>>
>
> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle and/or
> shutting down anyhow.
> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine straight
> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away happily enough
> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>
>
> Bertie
>

Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> Tech Support <> wrote in :
>
>> Just received the following from a long time very experienced pilot
>> friend of mine.
>>
>> His comment about this one flight earned him a life time pay is a good
>> one.
>>
>> Quote
>>
>> Great job by the Air Bus driver. As always, the media passed right on
>> over what he did that marked him as a REAL pilot :-) After he went
>> post impact and lost both fans, ATC gave him a clear corridor into
>> Teterboro. He had scant seconds to make the decision and he made the
>> right one. He looked at Teterboro, glanced at the altimeter, figured
>> the angles and did the math. He decided in that nano second that he
>> couldn't make Teterboro, and THAT decision made his entire salary for
>> a lifetime career. The rest was just good flying.
>> You can always count on the media to miss the main point
>>
>
>
> Well, I thnk that decision got made for him! but yeah, it was all just
> stick and rudder from that point on and I'm sure the guy would be the
> first
> to say he just did what he had to. It'll be an interesting one to read
> about, but it's basically the same scenario as deadsticking any airplane.
> I think he'd also be the firts to point out that they were extraordinarily
> lucky. none of this Is meant to detract in any way from the guy's
> achievement, of course, but the media does talk so much BS with this sort
> of thing. ..
>
>
> Bertie

You sound like Mx.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> Mxsmanic > wrote in
> :
>
>> Kingfish writes:
>>
>>> Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
>>> after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
>>> can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
>>> a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>>
>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines don't
>> often fail all on their own.
>>
>
> You're a moron
>
>
> Bertie

Just like you.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Mxsmanic > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>
>>>> Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
>>>> after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes, but
>>>> can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure picked
>>>> a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>>>
>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines don't
>>> often fail all on their own.
>>>
>>
>> You're a moron
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Just like you.
>
>

Bweawahwhahhw!

Bertie
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Tech Support <> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Just received the following from a long time very experienced pilot
>>> friend of mine.
>>>
>>> His comment about this one flight earned him a life time pay is a
>>> good one.
>>>
>>> Quote
>>>
>>> Great job by the Air Bus driver. As always, the media passed right
>>> on over what he did that marked him as a REAL pilot :-) After he
>>> went post impact and lost both fans, ATC gave him a clear corridor
>>> into Teterboro. He had scant seconds to make the decision and he
>>> made the right one. He looked at Teterboro, glanced at the
>>> altimeter, figured the angles and did the math. He decided in that
>>> nano second that he couldn't make Teterboro, and THAT decision made
>>> his entire salary for a lifetime career. The rest was just good
>>> flying. You can always count on the media to miss the main point
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well, I thnk that decision got made for him! but yeah, it was all
>> just stick and rudder from that point on and I'm sure the guy would
>> be the first
>> to say he just did what he had to. It'll be an interesting one to
>> read about, but it's basically the same scenario as deadsticking any
>> airplane. I think he'd also be the firts to point out that they were
>> extraordinarily lucky. none of this Is meant to detract in any way
>> from the guy's achievement, of course, but the media does talk so
>> much BS with this sort of thing. ..
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> You sound like Mx.


To you, Im sure that; sthe case wannabe boi.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:%Focl.29929$H12.18354
@newsfe12.iad:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> John > wrote in
>> news:32b8ee0b-1587-4404-a9f3-e33d06d50c51
@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
>>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes,
but
>>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure
>>>> > picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>>>>
>>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines
>>>> don't
>>> often
>>>> fail all on their own.
>>>
>>> Well, according to
>>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
>> channel=busav&
>>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>>
>>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor stalls/surges
>>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine designs
in
>>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since
>>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume
that
>>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or simulator
>>> training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or
being
>>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.
>>>
>>
>> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
>> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle and/or
>> shutting down anyhow.
>> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine
straight
>> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away happily
enough
>> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>>
>
> Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.
>
>

Awww, maxie make a witty!


Bertie

[Ricky]

On Jan 16, 12:59*pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
> <Tech Support> wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.
>
> > Big John
>
> > ************************************************** ************
>
> I wonder if the gear was still down from take off, and they didn't have time
> or power to lift it.

That statement is as idiodic as some things MX says...oh, wait, you
have an "MX" in your sig, too. Go figure, two of the worst trolls have
"MX" in their names.

[RST Engineering]

One of the things that helped him make that decision was that he had
hundreds, if not thousands of "dead stick landings" as a flight instructor,
glider.

Jim
CFIG






He had scant seconds to make the decision and he made the
> right one. He looked at Teterboro, glanced at the altimeter, figured
> the angles and did the math. He decided in that nano second that he
> couldn't make Teterboro, and THAT decision made his entire salary for
> a lifetime career.

[Jeff none]

1 of the passengers said something about seeing birds flying by before
the landing.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Ricky" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 16, 12:59 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
> <Tech Support> wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.
>
> > Big John
>
> > ************************************************** ************
>
> I wonder if the gear was still down from take off, and they didn't have
> time
> or power to lift it.

That statement is as idiodic as some things MX says...oh, wait, you
have an "MX" in your sig, too. Go figure, two of the worst trolls have
"MX" in their names.

Oh really, and how do you figure that. Any idea what his altitude was when
**** started happening?

[RST Engineering]

>
> Oh really, and how do you figure that. Any idea what his altitude was when
> **** started happening?
>

I believe the mode C showed him maxing out at about 3200 MSL at 3+ minutes
into the flight. That would seem to be right with a 200 knot max glide rate
sink of about 1000 fpm and a 6 to 7 minute take-off to landing time.

Jim

[Monk]

On Jan 17, 2:54*pm, (Jeff none) wrote:
> 1 of the passengers said something about seeing birds flying by before
> the landing.

Although the pilot did an excellent job I wouldn't call it a
"landing", more like a ditching maybe?

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> >
>> Oh really, and how do you figure that. Any idea what his altitude was
>> when **** started happening?
>>
>
> I believe the mode C showed him maxing out at about 3200 MSL at 3+ minutes
> into the flight. That would seem to be right with a 200 knot max glide
> rate sink of about 1000 fpm and a 6 to 7 minute take-off to landing time.
>
> Jim
>

Probably a moot point now anyway, haven't they established he landed gear
up?

[RST Engineering]

They established that two days ago.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle






"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
...

> Probably a moot point now anyway, haven't they established he landed gear
> up?
>
>
>

[Ricky]

On Jan 17, 2:17*pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

> > I wonder if the gear was still down from take off, and they didn't have
> > time
> > or power to lift it.

> That statement is as idiodic as some things MX says...oh, wait, you
> have an "MX" in your sig, too. Go figure, two of the worst trolls have
> "MX" in their names.

>>> Oh really, and how do you figure that.

From the photo of the plane as it approached the river and the fact
that he was above 3,000 ft, when the birdstrike occured. I know your
aviation knowlege is practically nil, but an airline usually retracts
their gear by then, just so you know.

>>>Any idea what his altitude was when sh** started happening?

About 3,400 ft, according to http://www4.passur.com/lga.html.

Any more stupid questions, MX?

Ricky

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Tech Support wrote:
> He looked at Teterboro, glanced at the altimeter, figured
> the angles and did the math. He decided in that nano second that he
> couldn't make Teterboro, and THAT decision made his entire salary for
> a lifetime career.

Coming up short @ TEB would have been Ug-ly!

[ah]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:%Focl.29929$H12.18354
> @newsfe12.iad:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> John > wrote in
>>> news:32b8ee0b-1587-4404-a9f3-e33d06d50c51
> @u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the Hudson
>>>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes,
> but
>>>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure
>>>>> > picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>>>>>
>>>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines
>>>>> don't
>>>> often
>>>>> fail all on their own.
>>>>
>>>> Well, according to
>>>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
>>> channel=busav&
>>>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>>>
>>>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor stalls/surges
>>>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>>>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine designs
> in
>>>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since
>>>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume
> that
>>>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or simulator
>>>> training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or
> being
>>>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
>>> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle and/or
>>> shutting down anyhow.
>>> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine
> straight
>>> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away happily
> enough
>>> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>>
>>
>> Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.
>>
>>
>
> Awww, maxie make a witty!

ROLF!
--
ah

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

ah > wrote in news:49728b5c$0$57670
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:%Focl.29929$H12.18354
>> @newsfe12.iad:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> John > wrote in
>>>> news:32b8ee0b-1587-4404-a9f3-e33d06d50c51
>> @u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>>>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the
Hudson
>>>>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes,
>> but
>>>>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure
>>>>>> > picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines
>>>>>> don't
>>>>> often
>>>>>> fail all on their own.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, according to
>>>>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
>>>> channel=busav&
>>>>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor
stalls/surges
>>>>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>>>>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine
designs
>> in
>>>>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since
>>>>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume
>> that
>>>>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or simulator
>>>>> training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or
>> being
>>>>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
>>>> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle and/or
>>>> shutting down anyhow.
>>>> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine
>> straight
>>>> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away happily
>> enough
>>>> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Awww, maxie make a witty!
>
> ROLF!


Tie me kangaroo down, sport.


Bertie

[ah]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> ah > wrote in news:49728b5c$0$57670
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:%Focl.29929$H12.18354
>>> @newsfe12.iad:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> John > wrote in
>>>>> news:32b8ee0b-1587-4404-a9f3-e33d06d50c51
>>> @u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>>>>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>>>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the
> Hudson
>>>>>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about birdstrikes,
>>> but
>>>>>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They sure
>>>>>>> > picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is ok...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> often
>>>>>>> fail all on their own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, according to
>>>>>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
>>>>> channel=busav&
>>>>>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor
> stalls/surges
>>>>>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>>>>>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine
> designs
>>> in
>>>>>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since
>>>>>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume
>>> that
>>>>>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or simulator
>>>>>> training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the matter or
>>> being
>>>>>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
>>>>> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle and/or
>>>>> shutting down anyhow.
>>>>> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine
>>> straight
>>>>> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away happily
>>> enough
>>>>> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Awww, maxie make a witty!
>>
>> ROLF!
>
>
> Tie me kangaroo down, sport.

What-ho, Squiffy?
--
ah

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in
m:

> One of the things that helped him make that decision was that he had
> hundreds, if not thousands of "dead stick landings" as a flight
> instructor, glider.
>
> Jim
> CFIG
>

Well, I wouldn't say there was much of a decision to be made, myself. no
thrust and all that. Glider instructor woudl have helped him control the
airplane OK.
Was chattin with an A320 driver last night and he told me the airplane's
flight controls would have gone into a a law that the crew weren't used to
as a result of the power loss ( unless they hade the APU running which is
not likely) making the handling less than intuitive for him.
Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

ah > wrote in
anews.com:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> ah > wrote in news:49728b5c$0$57670
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:%Focl.29929$H12.18354
>>>> @newsfe12.iad:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> John > wrote in
>>>>>> news:32b8ee0b-1587-4404-a9f3-e33d06d50c51
>>>> @u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>>>>>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>>>>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the
>> Hudson
>>>>>>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about
>>>>>>>> > birdstrikes,
>>>> but
>>>>>>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They
>>>>>>>> > sure picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is
>>>>>>>> > ok...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>> fail all on their own.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, according to
>>>>>>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
>>>>>> channel=busav&
>>>>>>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor
>> stalls/surges
>>>>>>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>>>>>>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine
>> designs
>>>> in
>>>>>>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since
>>>>>>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume
>>>> that
>>>>>>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or
>>>>>>> simulator training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the
>>>>>>> matter or
>>>> being
>>>>>>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
>>>>>> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle and/or
>>>>>> shutting down anyhow.
>>>>>> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine
>>>> straight
>>>>>> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away happily
>>>> enough
>>>>>> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Awww, maxie make a witty!
>>>
>>> ROLF!
>>
>>
>> Tie me kangaroo down, sport.
>
> What-ho, Squiffy?


uh wwuh uh wwuh uh whiggga whigga whuh..


Bertie

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>ah > wrote in
anews.com:
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> ah > wrote in news:49728b5c$0$57670
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:%Focl.29929$H12.18354
>>>>> @newsfe12.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> John > wrote in
>>>>>>> news:32b8ee0b-1587-4404-a9f3-e33d06d50c51
>>>>> @u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>>>>>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the
>>> Hudson
>>>>>>>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about
>>>>>>>>> > birdstrikes,
>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They
>>>>>>>>> > sure picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is
>>>>>>>>> > ok...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet
engines
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>> fail all on their own.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, according to
>>>>>>>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
>>>>>>> channel=busav&
>>>>>>>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor
>>> stalls/surges
>>>>>>>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>>>>>>>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine
>>> designs
>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction.
Since
>>>>>>>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would
assume
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or
>>>>>>>> simulator training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing
the
>>>>>>>> matter or
>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator
session.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
>>>>>>> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle
and/or
>>>>>>> shutting down anyhow.
>>>>>>> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine
>>>>> straight
>>>>>>> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away
happily
>>>>> enough
>>>>>>> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Awww, maxie make a witty!
>>>>
>>>> ROLF!
>>>
>>>
>>> Tie me kangaroo down, sport.
>>
>> What-ho, Squiffy?
>
>
>uh wwuh uh wwuh uh whiggga whigga whuh..
>
>
I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
turboprops.
Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.

Discuss.




--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[Viperdoc[_6_]]

I flew into somewhere in SD in a Mesaba Saab 340. The flight before had a
bird strike on the windshield (goose), that broke off the windshield wiper.
The wiper blade then hit the prop, which flung the broken blade through the
side of the fuselage, impaling itself in the thigh of one of the pax. He had
to go to the operating room for some sort of surgery, but I do not think it
broke his femur. Talk about bad luck.

They flew in a new prop the next day, and there was some speed tape on the
side of the fuselage.

I've always wondered if the pax got to ride free on NWA for the rest of his
life.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in
:

> I flew into somewhere in SD in a Mesaba Saab 340. The flight before
> had a bird strike on the windshield (goose), that broke off the
> windshield wiper. The wiper blade then hit the prop, which flung the
> broken blade through the side of the fuselage, impaling itself in the
> thigh of one of the pax. He had to go to the operating room for some
> sort of surgery, but I do not think it broke his femur. Talk about bad
> luck.
>
> They flew in a new prop the next day, and there was some speed tape on
> the side of the fuselage.
>

yipes. An airplane I uswed to fly had a wiper come loose and go right
through the engine, trashing it, but that is bad luck.

BTW, thehole in the fuse had to have had more than speed tape over it
unless thye were ferrying it unpressurised!

> I've always wondered if the pax got to ride free on NWA for the rest
> of his life.

Hehe
He'd have been lucky to get a taxi ride to the hospital for free!

They'd prolly refuse to give him anything to avoid being seen as shoudergin
any blame whatsoever, I'd a thought.


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> They established that two days ago.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
> without accepting it."
> --Aristotle
>

Well don't tell me, tell Big John. He's the one that supposed it was down.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Ricky" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 17, 2:17 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

> > I wonder if the gear was still down from take off, and they didn't have
> > time
> > or power to lift it.

> That statement is as idiodic as some things MX says...oh, wait, you
> have an "MX" in your sig, too. Go figure, two of the worst trolls have
> "MX" in their names.

>>> Oh really, and how do you figure that.

From the photo of the plane as it approached the river and the fact
that he was above 3,000 ft, when the birdstrike occured. I know your
aviation knowlege is practically nil, but an airline usually retracts
their gear by then, just so you know.

>>>Any idea what his altitude was when sh** started happening?

About 3,400 ft, according to http://www4.passur.com/lga.html.

Any more stupid questions, MX?

Ricky

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah dicky, why are you arguing with statements made two days ago, and based
on nothing but speculation?

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "RST Engineering" > wrote in
> m:
>
>> One of the things that helped him make that decision was that he had
>> hundreds, if not thousands of "dead stick landings" as a flight
>> instructor, glider.
>>
>> Jim
>> CFIG
>>
>
> Well, I wouldn't say there was much of a decision to be made, myself. no
> thrust and all that. Glider instructor woudl have helped him control the
> airplane OK.

Well you wouldn't say a lot of things, if they didn't serve to primp your
own ego.

> Was chattin with an A320 driver last night and he told me the airplane's
> flight controls would have gone into a a law that the crew weren't used to
> as a result of the power loss ( unless they hade the APU running which is
> not likely) making the handling less than intuitive for him.
> Bertie

You hear a lot of voices, don't you? Check back in when (if) you sober up.

[Viperdoc[_6_]]

From across the ramp it sure looked like speed tape, although it could have
been a riveted patch. South Dakota to MSP is a pretty short flight.

If I had been that guy I would have demanded a free first class pass for
four pax domestic and international for the rest of my life. Even if NWA won
the lawsuit, the cost of litigation would probably have been cheaper than
the tix.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...

snip of your usual bull**** ->

Good job Gertie. After the absence of your ignorance for a couple of months,
the newsgroup begins to show signs of becoming useful again, and here you
are, spouting your wanna be troll nonsense, and cross posting to the kook
world.

Are you afraid Mx was stealing your thunder?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "RST Engineering" > wrote in
>> m:
>>
>>> One of the things that helped him make that decision was that he had
>>> hundreds, if not thousands of "dead stick landings" as a flight
>>> instructor, glider.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>> CFIG
>>>
>>
>> Well, I wouldn't say there was much of a decision to be made, myself.
>> no thrust and all that. Glider instructor woudl have helped him
>> control the airplane OK.
>
> Well you wouldn't say a lot of things, if they didn't serve to primp
> your own ego.
>
> > Was chattin with an A320 driver last night and he told me the
> > airplane's
>> flight controls would have gone into a a law that the crew weren't
>> used to as a result of the power loss ( unless they hade the APU
>> running which is not likely) making the handling less than intuitive
>> for him. Bertie
>
> You hear a lot of voices, don't you? Check back in when (if) you sober
> up.
>

Awww, drinkin lames!

how kewt!


Good for you Maxie, you just keep pluggin away there.



Bertie

[Flydive]

Viperdoc wrote:
> From across the ramp it sure looked like speed tape, although it could have
> been a riveted patch. South Dakota to MSP is a pretty short flight.
>
> If I had been that guy I would have demanded a free first class pass for
> four pax domestic and international for the rest of my life. Even if NWA won
> the lawsuit, the cost of litigation would probably have been cheaper than
> the tix.
>
>
>


But how in any way was the fault of MWA what happened?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in
:

> From across the ramp it sure looked like speed tape, although it could
> have been a riveted patch. South Dakota to MSP is a pretty short
> flight.

They could have flown it, but it would almost certainly have been a ferry
to get the skin patched. Just rivets won't do it AFAIK, it has to be
bondded. Problem with pressurised fuselages is that a tear like that is a
stress riser, so even a little patch has to be prepared and doen properly.
not a big issue if you fly it unpressurised, though.
>
> If I had been that guy I would have demanded a free first class pass
> for four pax domestic and international for the rest of my life. Even
> if NWA won the lawsuit, the cost of litigation would probably have
> been cheaper than the tix.
>
>
>
>

But why would the pax settle for it? I wouldn't I'd sue em.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> snip of your usual bull**** ->
>
> Good job Gertie. After the absence of your ignorance for a couple of
> months, the newsgroup begins to show signs of becoming useful again,
> and here you are, spouting your wanna be troll nonsense, and cross
> posting to the kook world.
>
> Are you afraid Mx was stealing your thunder?

Nope, i just like watching you bitch and moan. It's a bit like watching a
turtle turned on it's back.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

Flydive > wrote in :

> Viperdoc wrote:
>> From across the ramp it sure looked like speed tape, although it
>> could have been a riveted patch. South Dakota to MSP is a pretty
>> short flight.
>>
>> If I had been that guy I would have demanded a free first class pass
>> for four pax domestic and international for the rest of my life. Even
>> if NWA won the lawsuit, the cost of litigation would probably have
>> been cheaper than the tix.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> But how in any way was the fault of MWA what happened?
>

hardly matters, really. All you got to do is get 12 people together who
have been ****ed off by airlines!
Highyl unlikely, i know, but surely not completely beyond the realsm of
possibility.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
>> They established that two days ago.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> --
>> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
>> without accepting it."
>> --Aristotle
>>
>
> Well don't tell me, tell Big John. He's the one that supposed it was
> down.
>

And Maxie proves Aristotle entirely correct..


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> "Ricky" > wrote in message
> news:0ce46517-5860-4497-b5cb-
.
> .. On Jan 17, 2:17 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>
>> > I wonder if the gear was still down from take off, and they didn't
>> > have time
>> > or power to lift it.
>
>> That statement is as idiodic as some things MX says...oh, wait, you
>> have an "MX" in your sig, too. Go figure, two of the worst trolls
>> have "MX" in their names.
>
>>>> Oh really, and how do you figure that.
>
> From the photo of the plane as it approached the river and the fact
> that he was above 3,000 ft, when the birdstrike occured. I know your
> aviation knowlege is practically nil, but an airline usually retracts
> their gear by then, just so you know.
>
>>>>Any idea what his altitude was when sh** started happening?
>
> About 3,400 ft, according to http://www4.passur.com/lga.html.
>
> Any more stupid questions, MX?
>
> Ricky
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> --
>
> Yeah dicky, why are you arguing with statements made two days ago, and
> based on nothing but speculation?
>

And again, aristotle wins out.


Bertie

[Scott M. Kozel]

§ñühw¤£f wrote:
>
> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
> turboprops.
> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>
> Discuss.

On Oct. 4, 1960, 62 people died when Eastern Airlines Flight 375 plunged
wing-first into Boston Harbor after flying into a flock of birds shortly
after takeoff. It was the first commercial airline crash in Logan
Airport's history, the deadliest air disaster in New England history at
the time, and it remains the most deadly crash in US history involving a
bird strike. Nine of the 10 survivors had serious injuries.

The Eastern Airlines Lockheed Electra four-engine turbo-prop airliner
had 72 people aboard and was bound for Atlanta. The plane flew into a
flock of starlings at an altitude of 400 feet. Three engines lost power,
and the plane stalled and spun, crashed into water 200 yards offshore,
and broke in half.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/01/16/deadliest_crash_involving_birds_boston_1960/

[Scott M. Kozel]

§ñühw¤£f wrote:
>
> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
> turboprops.
> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.

Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop, the
above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has a jet
engine.

> Discuss.

The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally could
drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the pure jet
engines.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
> :
>
>> From across the ramp it sure looked like speed tape, although it could
>> have been a riveted patch. South Dakota to MSP is a pretty short
>> flight.
>
> They could have flown it, but it would almost certainly have been a ferry
> to get the skin patched. Just rivets won't do it AFAIK, it has to be
> bondded. Problem with pressurised fuselages is that a tear like that is a
> stress riser, so even a little patch has to be prepared and doen properly.
> not a big issue if you fly it unpressurised, though.
>>
>> If I had been that guy I would have demanded a free first class pass
>> for four pax domestic and international for the rest of my life. Even
>> if NWA won the lawsuit, the cost of litigation would probably have
>> been cheaper than the tix.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> But why would the pax settle for it? I wouldn't I'd sue em.
>
>
> Bertie

As usual, you have a tremendous grasp on the obvious. Kind of like Mx.

[george]

On Jan 19, 7:46*am, "Scott M. Kozel" > wrote:

> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally could
> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the pure jet
> engines.

And required expensive major overhauls that didn't guarantee flawless
performance :-(..
Let's stick with the simple functional jet turbine..

[Tech Support]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:42:40 -0600, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

>
>"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>> They established that two days ago.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> --
>> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
>> without accepting it."
>> --Aristotle
>>
>
>Well don't tell me, tell Big John. He's the one that supposed it was down.
>
>
Dear VI

Here is my post. I only reported what media was saying and if TRUE was
a bad decission.

quote Witness also said gear was down (per media). If true (I said) ,
was bad decision. unquote

Later reports were more accurate and said gear up and streaming video
of bird before touch down let ME see that gear was up.

Does this satify you or can you not understand standard english
relating to flight?.

Big John

************************************************** ***********************

[Tech Support]

Yep

No good place to belly in any place short of TEB.

He made the only good decission from facts available and Lady Luck
laid her hand on him and the rest of crew and all the passengers.

Big John
************************************************** *********************************

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 18:16:27 -0500, B A R R Y >
wrote:

>Tech Support wrote:
>> He looked at Teterboro, glanced at the altimeter, figured
>> the angles and did the math. He decided in that nano second that he
>> couldn't make Teterboro, and THAT decision made his entire salary for
>> a lifetime career.
>
>Coming up short @ TEB would have been Ug-ly!

[George]

On Jan 18, 11:44*am, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

> Yeah dicky, why are you arguing with statements made two days ago, and based
> on nothing but speculation?

Trolling attempt 4 out of a possible 10.

You asked the question MX, I'm giving you the answer.

Ricky

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Viperdoc" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> From across the ramp it sure looked like speed tape, although it
>>> could have been a riveted patch. South Dakota to MSP is a pretty
>>> short flight.
>>
>> They could have flown it, but it would almost certainly have been a
>> ferry to get the skin patched. Just rivets won't do it AFAIK, it has
>> to be bondded. Problem with pressurised fuselages is that a tear like
>> that is a stress riser, so even a little patch has to be prepared and
>> doen properly. not a big issue if you fly it unpressurised, though.
>>>
>>> If I had been that guy I would have demanded a free first class pass
>>> for four pax domestic and international for the rest of my life.
>>> Even if NWA won the lawsuit, the cost of litigation would probably
>>> have been cheaper than the tix.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> But why would the pax settle for it? I wouldn't I'd sue em.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> As usual, you have a tremendous grasp on the obvious. Kind of like Mx.



Actually his immediate grasp is much the same as your own.



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
@news.motzarella.org:

> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>
>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
>> turboprops.
>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>
> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop, the
> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has a jet
> engine.
>
>> Discuss.
>
> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally could
> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the pure jet
> engines.
>

yes, but they were so much more fun


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"George" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 11:44 am, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

> Yeah dicky, why are you arguing with statements made two days ago, and
> based
> on nothing but speculation?

Trolling attempt 4 out of a possible 10.

You asked the question MX, I'm giving you the answer.

Ricky
------------------------------------------------------------\\

I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or Ricky.

Are you having an identity crisis?

[vaughn]

<Tech Support> wrote in message
...
>
> Here is my post. I only reported what media was saying and if TRUE was
> a bad decission.
>
> quote Witness also said gear was down (per media). If true (I said) ,
> was bad decision. unquote
>
> Later reports were more accurate and said gear up and streaming video
> of bird before touch down let ME see that gear was up.
>
> Does this satify you or can you not understand standard english
> relating to flight?.


I think that I understand standard English as it relates to flight pretty
well, but I still find your original "bad decision" comment surprising.
Even if the gear had happened to be down for that ditching, I would not be
the one to stick my neck out and call it a "bad decision" until I had heard
the REASON for the gear being down. For several reasons, there may have not
been a decision to be made nor time to make it in.

The pilots' first job is the fly the plane, then communicate, and only then
deal with internal cockpit details. According to one AP report I read
(whatever THAT is worth) the pilots had at least three pages of checklists
for engine out and then ditching (probably more). According to that same
article, the pilots did not operate the "ditch switch" so we can guess that
the pilots simply did not have time to work their way to the end of their
checklists before impact.

Vaughn

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "George" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Jan 18, 11:44 am, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>
>> Yeah dicky, why are you arguing with statements made two days ago, and
>> based
>> on nothing but speculation?
>
> Trolling attempt 4 out of a possible 10.
>
> You asked the question MX, I'm giving you the answer.
>
> Ricky
> ------------------------------------------------------------\\
>
> I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or Ricky.
>
> Are you having an identity crisis?
>
>
>



Apparently you are maxie.

don' tknow how to work your attribs yet?

Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> Apparently you are maxie.
>
> don' tknow how to work your attribs yet?
>
> Bertie

Who needs to bother with attribs, dumb ass.

He posted a message from George, and signed it Ricky.

Is that a little too complex for your hangover?

Should I say it again, and a little slower?

[Maxwell[_2_]]

<Tech Support> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:42:40 -0600, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>
>>
>>"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>>> They established that two days ago.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> --
>>> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
>>> without accepting it."
>>> --Aristotle
>>>
>>
>>Well don't tell me, tell Big John. He's the one that supposed it was down.
>>
>>
> Dear VI
>
> Here is my post. I only reported what media was saying and if TRUE was
> a bad decission.
>
> quote Witness also said gear was down (per media). If true (I said) ,
> was bad decision. unquote
>
> Later reports were more accurate and said gear up and streaming video
> of bird before touch down let ME see that gear was up.
>
> Does this satify you or can you not understand standard english
> relating to flight?.
>
> Big John
>
> ************************************************** ***********************

Dear Prick

Are you having a comprehension problem? I didn't take issue with your first
post.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"vaughn" > wrote in
:

>
> <Tech Support> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Here is my post. I only reported what media was saying and if TRUE
>> was a bad decission.
>>
>> quote Witness also said gear was down (per media). If true (I said)
>> , was bad decision. unquote
>>
>> Later reports were more accurate and said gear up and streaming video
>> of bird before touch down let ME see that gear was up.
>>
>> Does this satify you or can you not understand standard english
>> relating to flight?.
>
>
> I think that I understand standard English as it relates to flight
> pretty well, but I still find your original "bad decision" comment
> surprising. Even if the gear had happened to be down for that
> ditching, I would not be the one to stick my neck out and call it a
> "bad decision" until I had heard the REASON for the gear being down.
> For several reasons, there may have not been a decision to be made nor
> time to make it in.
>
> The pilots' first job is the fly the plane, then communicate, and only
> then deal with internal cockpit details. According to one AP report I
> read (whatever THAT is worth) the pilots had at least three pages of
> checklists for engine out and then ditching (probably more).
> According to that same article, the pilots did not operate the "ditch
> switch" so we can guess that the pilots simply did not have time to
> work their way to the end of their checklists before impact.
>

Actually communication, for the most part, would come after the
checklists. All that would be required is a simple declaration of
emergency, unless th ecrew required something of ATC, like a vecotr, or
equipment.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> <Tech Support> wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:42:40 -0600, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>>>> They established that two days ago.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a
>>>> thought without accepting it."
>>>> --Aristotle
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well don't tell me, tell Big John. He's the one that supposed it was
>>>down.
>>>
>>>
>> Dear VI
>>
>> Here is my post. I only reported what media was saying and if TRUE
>> was a bad decission.
>>
>> quote Witness also said gear was down (per media). If true (I said)
>> , was bad decision. unquote
>>
>> Later reports were more accurate and said gear up and streaming video
>> of bird before touch down let ME see that gear was up.
>>
>> Does this satify you or can you not understand standard english
>> relating to flight?.
>>
>> Big John
>>
>>
************************************************** ********************
>> ***
>
> Dear Prick
>
> Are you having a comprehension problem? I didn't take issue with your
> first post



Dear fjucktard..
Actually that's all i wanted to say.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>
>> Apparently you are maxie.
>>
>> don' tknow how to work your attribs yet?
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Who needs to bother with attribs, dumb ass.


Sez it all, wannabe boi

>
> He posted a message from George, and signed it Ricky.
>
> Is that a little too complex for your hangover?
>
> Should I say it again, and a little slower?

If it amuses you as much as it would me.



Bertie

[Tech Support]

Dear VIi

I refuse to communicate with anyone who doesn't know their A**hole
from a hole in the ground.

Good by and may the rag heads take you down.

BJ

**********************


On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:08:29 -0600, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

>
><Tech Support> wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:42:40 -0600, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>>>> They established that two days ago.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
>>>> without accepting it."
>>>> --Aristotle
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well don't tell me, tell Big John. He's the one that supposed it was down.
>>>
>>>
>> Dear VI
>>
>> Here is my post. I only reported what media was saying and if TRUE was
>> a bad decission.
>>
>> quote Witness also said gear was down (per media). If true (I said) ,
>> was bad decision. unquote
>>
>> Later reports were more accurate and said gear up and streaming video
>> of bird before touch down let ME see that gear was up.
>>
>> Does this satify you or can you not understand standard english
>> relating to flight?.
>>
>> Big John
>>
>> ************************************************** ***********************
>
>Dear Prick
>
>Are you having a comprehension problem? I didn't take issue with your first
>post.
>

[ah]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> ah > wrote in
> anews.com:
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> ah > wrote in news:49728b5c$0$57670
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:%Focl.29929$H12.18354
>>>>> @newsfe12.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> John > wrote in
>>>>>>> news:32b8ee0b-1587-4404-a9f3-e33d06d50c51
>>>>> @u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>>>>>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the
>>> Hudson
>>>>>>>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about
>>>>>>>>> > birdstrikes,
>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They
>>>>>>>>> > sure picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is
>>>>>>>>> > ok...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet engines
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>> fail all on their own.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, according to
>>>>>>>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
>>>>>>> channel=busav&
>>>>>>>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor
>>> stalls/surges
>>>>>>>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>>>>>>>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine
>>> designs
>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction. Since
>>>>>>>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would assume
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or
>>>>>>>> simulator training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing the
>>>>>>>> matter or
>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator session.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
>>>>>>> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle and/or
>>>>>>> shutting down anyhow.
>>>>>>> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine
>>>>> straight
>>>>>>> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away happily
>>>>> enough
>>>>>>> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Awww, maxie make a witty!
>>>>
>>>> ROLF!
>>>
>>>
>>> Tie me kangaroo down, sport.
>>
>> What-ho, Squiffy?
>
>
> uh wwuh uh wwuh uh whiggga whigga whuh..

Cabbages on the ceiling, Ser!
--
ah

[John Clear]

In article >,
a > wrote:
>
>Once, at general aviation speeds, we saw a flock of what seemed to be
>canada geese at constant bearing out our windscreen. Sailers say
>"Constant bearing means collision". We saw them with enough seconds in
>hand to reduce our rate of climb and got under them.

Going under birds isn't advised, since when spooked, they often will
dive for the ground. Much safer to go over them, since their rate of
climb isn't that fast.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

[Dave Doe]

In article <e452f9d1-7e41-400a-9d21-
>, says...
> On Jan 15, 5:32*pm, Shirl > wrote:
> > Kingfish > wrote:
> > > CNN is reporting all 135 on board got off the plane (and didn't get
> > > wet!) Apparently a flock of geese got in the way soon after takeoff,
> > > and both engines sucked in birds. Damn the luck...
> >
> > Depends how you choose to view it. I'd say their luck was pretty damn
> > good!
>
> Once, at general aviation speeds, we saw a flock of what seemed to be
> canada geese at constant bearing out our windscreen. Sailers say
> "Constant bearing means collision".

Just sailors say that? - jeez, whereabouts do *you* touch down on the
RWY? :)

--
Duncan

[George]

On Jan 18, 3:37*pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

> I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or Ricky.
>
> Are you having an identity crisis?

Take the "a" out of Maxwell & you get MX.

George (aka; Ricky)

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>"Viperdoc" > wrote in
:
>
>> I flew into somewhere in SD in a Mesaba Saab 340. The flight before
>> had a bird strike on the windshield (goose), that broke off the
>> windshield wiper. The wiper blade then hit the prop, which flung the
>> broken blade through the side of the fuselage, impaling itself in
the
>> thigh of one of the pax. He had to go to the operating room for some
>> sort of surgery, but I do not think it broke his femur. Talk about
bad
>> luck.
>>
>> They flew in a new prop the next day, and there was some speed tape
on
>> the side of the fuselage.
>>
>
>yipes. An airplane I uswed to fly had a wiper come loose and go right
>through the engine, trashing it, but that is bad luck.
>
>BTW, thehole in the fuse had to have had more than speed tape over it
>unless thye were ferrying it unpressurised!
>
>> I've always wondered if the pax got to ride free on NWA for the rest
>> of his life.
>
>Hehe
>He'd have been lucky to get a taxi ride to the hospital for free!
>
>They'd prolly refuse to give him anything to avoid being seen as
shoudergin
>any blame whatsoever, I'd a thought.
>
>
>Bertie
>
These two compelling stories are perfect examples of Why I Dont Fly.

<nods>

--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
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\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>
>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>
>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
>>> turboprops.
>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>
>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop,
the
>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has a
jet
>> engine.
>>
>>> Discuss.
>>
>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
could
>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the pure
jet
>> engines.
>>
>
>yes, but they were so much more fun
>
>
>Bertie
>
Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.

Yeah, think on that for a while.

Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.

--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> snip of your usual bull**** ->
>>
>> Good job Gertie. After the absence of your ignorance for a couple of
>> months, the newsgroup begins to show signs of becoming useful again,
>> and here you are, spouting your wanna be troll nonsense, and cross
>> posting to the kook world.
>>
>> Are you afraid Mx was stealing your thunder?
>
>Nope, i just like watching you bitch and moan. It's a bit like
watching a
>turtle turned on it's back.
>
>
>Bertie
>
Whenever I find an injured animal I always try to help it.

It makes me feel warm inside...


--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[Tech Support]

John

Your 100% correct.

Saw a BIG bizzard here inTX just ahead of me and started to fly under
him with plenty of clearance. When he saw me close he folded his wings
and fell straight down and almost took my wing off when we colided.

Fly over not under.

Big John.

************************************************** *************************

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 07:02:33 +0000 (UTC),
(John Clear) wrote:

>In article >,
>a > wrote:
>>
>>Once, at general aviation speeds, we saw a flock of what seemed to be
>>canada geese at constant bearing out our windscreen. Sailers say
>>"Constant bearing means collision". We saw them with enough seconds in
>>hand to reduce our rate of climb and got under them.
>
>Going under birds isn't advised, since when spooked, they often will
>dive for the ground. Much safer to go over them, since their rate of
>climb isn't that fast.
>
>John

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
:

> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
>
>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>>
>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
>>>> turboprops.
>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>
>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop,
> the
>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has a
> jet
>>> engine.
>>>
>>>> Discuss.
>>>
>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
> could
>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the pure
> jet
>>> engines.
>>>
>>
>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>
>>
>>Bertie
>>
> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.

Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.

>
> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>
> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>
Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam



Bertie

[George]

On Jan 18, 12:46*pm, "Scott M. Kozel" > wrote:
> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>
> > I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
> > turboprops.
> > Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>
> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop, the
> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has a jet
> engine.
>
> > Discuss.

I wonder in this example why did the Electra stall and spin?
From my very first lessons it was drilled into my head by all my
instructors "WHEN THE ENGINE FAILS GET THE NOSE DOWN AND FLY THE
AIRPLANE!" I wonder why the Electra didn't remain in a (somewhat)
straight & level attitude? Was the crew too busy, confused, alarmed,
to fly/glide the airplane?

How about the hijacked jet that crashed off the Atlantic? The video of
that crash shows it hitting at a wing-first, crooked angle. Again, why
didn't the crew have the thing in a landing configuration which may
have saved more, if not all, lives?
Was this crew scared? Did they have guns pointed at their temples?

All kinds of things could have caused these crews too much distraction
to just fly the airplane, get it in a landing configuration, and belly
the thing in, as did US Airways in the Hudson.
This just stresses once again, the importance to me, that when the
plane gets quiet, get the nose down and fly the airplane, find a
landing spot, then deal with everything else as able.

George II (Also Ricky sometimes)

[Government Shill #2]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:20:35 -0800 (PST), George >
wrote:

>On Jan 18, 12:46*pm, "Scott M. Kozel" > wrote:
>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>
>> > I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
>> > turboprops.
>> > Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>
>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop, the
>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has a jet
>> engine.
>>
>> > Discuss.
>
>I wonder in this example why did the Electra stall and spin?
>From my very first lessons it was drilled into my head by all my
>instructors "WHEN THE ENGINE FAILS GET THE NOSE DOWN AND FLY THE
>AIRPLANE!" I wonder why the Electra didn't remain in a (somewhat)
>straight & level attitude? Was the crew too busy, confused, alarmed,
>to fly/glide the airplane?


ISTR from reading Air Disasters by Macarthur Jobs, that the Electra crashed
because the birds took out both engines on one side and the asymmetric
thrust of the remaining engines could not be corrected by the available
rudder authority. I may be wrong. It was a long time ago that I read about
it.


>How about the hijacked jet that crashed off the Atlantic? The video of
>that crash shows it hitting at a wing-first, crooked angle. Again, why
>didn't the crew have the thing in a landing configuration which may
>have saved more, if not all, lives?
>Was this crew scared? Did they have guns pointed at their temples?


There was a hijacker in the cockpit. Apparently he upset the controls at
the last minute.

--
Shill #2

Great Tarverisms #5

The pitot tube was added to the first American jets to prevent the
kind of failures that killed an entire squadron off Florida. Without
P1 and T0 a jet will stall in fog.

Thanks to both of you for playing.

John

rec.aviation.military
11 August 2002

[RST Engineering]

>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
>> turboprops.
>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>
>> Discuss.


One of the most prominent examples of a turboprop passenger aircraft was the
Lockheed L-188 Electra. It CERTAINLY came along well after a number of
"jet" passenger aircraft were put into service.

A turboprop, obviously, is NOT a jet but did get partial thrust from the
turbine exhaust. As I recall, the "jet" effect was somewhere around 10% of
the total thrust with the propellers providing the other 90%.

The aircraft suffered from early problems with "whirl mode" which took the
wing from two aircraft in flight. Whirl mode is the aircraft equivalent of
the Tacoma Narrows bridge effect (Galloping Gertie) in which resonance modes
that were not predicted in fact occurred. The effect was originally
attributed to severe turbulence, but a series of tests over the California
Sierra in turbulence classified as somewhere between severe and extreme
proved that prognosis wrong. One of our pilots (PSA) who helped conduct the
tests came back saying that "I swear to Almighty God that tin whore was
flying tail first for a while."

The Allison engine was a jewel, but from a maintenance and reliability point
of view, the propellers were a POS.


Jim
L-188 wrench 63-67

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>
> Nope, i just like watching you bitch and moan. It's a bit like watching a
> turtle turned on it's back.
>
>
> Bertie

At least you have a grip on your own situation.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> Dear fjucktard..
> Actually that's all i wanted to say.
>
> Bertie

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you too.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

<Tech Support> wrote in message
...
> Dear VIi
>
> I refuse to communicate with anyone who doesn't know their A**hole
> from a hole in the ground.
>
> Good by and may the rag heads take you down.
>
> BJ

Now you're proving your self and idiot, because you clearly no nothing about
me, or how to read your own post.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"George" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 3:37 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

> I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or Ricky.
>
> Are you having an identity crisis?

Take the "a" out of Maxwell & you get MX.

George (aka; Ricky)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow dicky, you figured that out all on your own?

Take the G out of George or the R out of ricky, and you still have a dumb
ass.

[Aratzio]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:24:17 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
§ñühw¤£f > got double secret probation for
writing:

>Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>
>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>>
>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
>>>> turboprops.
>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>
>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop,
>the
>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has a
>jet
>>> engine.
>>>
>>>> Discuss.
>>>
>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
>could
>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the pure
>jet
>>> engines.
>>>
>>
>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>
>>
>>Bertie
>>
>Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>
>Yeah, think on that for a while.
>
>Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.

We gots ours!
http://www.airshipventures.com

Was watching it a few months ago doing patterns around Moffet field.

[Eeyore[_2_]]

George wrote:

> How about the hijacked jet that crashed off the Atlantic?

And what jet would that be?

Graham

[Eeyore[_2_]]

Government Shill #2 wrote:

> Great Tarverisms #5
>
> The pitot tube was added to the first American jets to prevent the
> kind of failures that killed an entire squadron off Florida. Without
> P1 and T0 a jet will stall in fog.
>
> Thanks to both of you for playing.
>
> John
>
> rec.aviation.military
> 11 August 2002

Has he expired ?

Graham

[Scott M. Kozel]

Government Shill #2 wrote:
>
> George > wrote:
>
>> I wonder in this example why did the Electra stall and spin?
>> From my very first lessons it was drilled into my head by all my
>> instructors "WHEN THE ENGINE FAILS GET THE NOSE DOWN AND FLY THE
>> AIRPLANE!" I wonder why the Electra didn't remain in a (somewhat)
>> straight & level attitude? Was the crew too busy, confused, alarmed,
>> to fly/glide the airplane?
>
> ISTR from reading Air Disasters by Macarthur Jobs, that the Electra crashed
> because the birds took out both engines on one side and the asymmetric
> thrust of the remaining engines could not be corrected by the available
> rudder authority. I may be wrong. It was a long time ago that I read about it.

Plus the fact that it happened right after takeoff when it was just
above stall speed.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19601004-0

A few seconds after taking off from runway 05, the Electra struck a
flock of starlings. A number of these birds were ingested in engine
no.1, 2 and 4. Engine no. 1 was shut down and the prop feathered.
Shortly after that the no. 2 and 4 engines experienced a substantial
momentary loss of power. This caused the plane to yaw to the left and
decelerate to stall speed. The left wing then dropped, the nose pitched
up and the L-188 rolled left into a spin and fell almost vertically into
the water.

PROBABLE CAUSE: "The unique and critical sequence of the loss and
recovery of engine power following bird ingestion, resulting in loss of
airspeed and control during takeoff. "

[Government Shill #2]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 02:11:03 +0000, Eeyore
> wrote:

>
>
>Government Shill #2 wrote:
>
>> Great Tarverisms #5
>>
>> The pitot tube was added to the first American jets to prevent the
>> kind of failures that killed an entire squadron off Florida. Without
>> P1 and T0 a jet will stall in fog.
>>
>> Thanks to both of you for playing.
>>
>> John
>>
>> rec.aviation.military
>> 11 August 2002
>
>Has he expired ?

No. That was the day that he came out with that nonsense.

--
Shill #2

Great Tarverisms #2

What is the best selling beer in Oz?

Budweiser.

Another illusion shattered.

John

alt.disasters.aviation
18 August 2002

[Government Shill #2]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:34:27 -0500, "Scott M. Kozel" >
wrote:

>Government Shill #2 wrote:
>>
>> George > wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder in this example why did the Electra stall and spin?
>>> From my very first lessons it was drilled into my head by all my
>>> instructors "WHEN THE ENGINE FAILS GET THE NOSE DOWN AND FLY THE
>>> AIRPLANE!" I wonder why the Electra didn't remain in a (somewhat)
>>> straight & level attitude? Was the crew too busy, confused, alarmed,
>>> to fly/glide the airplane?
>>
>> ISTR from reading Air Disasters by Macarthur Jobs, that the Electra crashed
>> because the birds took out both engines on one side and the asymmetric
>> thrust of the remaining engines could not be corrected by the available
>> rudder authority. I may be wrong. It was a long time ago that I read about it.
>
>Plus the fact that it happened right after takeoff when it was just
>above stall speed.
>
>http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19601004-0
>
>A few seconds after taking off from runway 05, the Electra struck a
>flock of starlings. A number of these birds were ingested in engine
>no.1, 2 and 4. Engine no. 1 was shut down and the prop feathered.
>Shortly after that the no. 2 and 4 engines experienced a substantial
>momentary loss of power. This caused the plane to yaw to the left and
>decelerate to stall speed. The left wing then dropped, the nose pitched
>up and the L-188 rolled left into a spin and fell almost vertically into
>the water.
>
>PROBABLE CAUSE: "The unique and critical sequence of the loss and
>recovery of engine power following bird ingestion, resulting in loss of
>airspeed and control during takeoff. "

Ah yes. That's what it was.

--
Shill #2

Great Tarverisms #4

The clerk boy is practicly illiterate.

John

alt.disasters.aviation
10 November 2002

[[email protected]]

On Jan 19, 5:03*pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
> "George" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jan 18, 3:37 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>
> > I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or Ricky.
>
> > Are you having an identity crisis?
>
> Take the "a" out of Maxwell & you get MX.
>
> George (aka; Ricky)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Wow dicky, you figured that out all on your own?
>
> Take the G out of George or the R out of ricky, and you still have a dumb
> ass.

Lucky for you he did since apparently, judging from your own post
below, you couldn't figure out where the Mx came from. Silly moron.


Oh, to help you find it, it's the first sentence of the last paragraph
of your post below.

************************************************** *****************
""Ricky" > wrote in message

news:2e1c9809-bac6-434b-
...
On Jan 16, 12:59 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

> <Tech Support> wrote in message

> ...

> > Witness also said gear was down. If true, was bad decision.

> > Big John

> > ************************************************** ************

> I wonder if the gear was still down from take off, and they didn't have
> time
> or power to lift it.

That statement is as idiodic as some things MX says...oh, wait, you
have an "MX" in your sig, too. Go figure, two of the worst trolls have
"MX" in their names.

Oh really, and how do you figure that. Any idea what his altitude was
when
**** started happening? "

[Maxwell[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...

Good job. You have just proven yourself as stupid and childish as your
friend.

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:25:34 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>
>>Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>
>>>"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> snip of your usual bull**** ->
>>>>
>>>> Good job Gertie. After the absence of your ignorance for a couple
of
>>>> months, the newsgroup begins to show signs of becoming useful
again,
>>>> and here you are, spouting your wanna be troll nonsense, and cross
>>>> posting to the kook world.
>>>>
>>>> Are you afraid Mx was stealing your thunder?
>>>
>>>Nope, i just like watching you bitch and moan. It's a bit like
>>watching a
>>>turtle turned on it's back.
>>>
>>>
>>>Bertie
>>>
>>Whenever I find an injured animal I always try to help it.
>>
>>It makes me feel warm inside...
>
>How do you feel about post turtles?
>
Somwon already poasted that joke...which i have forgotten :)



--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks, Bertie
>the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
:
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>>
>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>>>>
>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
strikes:
>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop,
>>> the
>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine
has a
>>> jet
>>>>> engine.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>
>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
>>> could
>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
pure
>>> jet
>>>>> engines.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bertie
>>>>
>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>
>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>
>>>
>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>
>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>
>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>
>No! Hell no!
>
And what pray tell is wrong with steam?


--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Aratzio > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:24:17 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>§ñühw¤£f > got double secret probation for
>writing:
>
>>Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>
>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>>>
>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
strikes:
>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>
>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop,
>>the
>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has
a
>>jet
>>>> engine.
>>>>
>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>
>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
>>could
>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
pure
>>jet
>>>> engines.
>>>>
>>>
>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>
>>>
>>>Bertie
>>>
>>Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>
>>Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>
>>Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>
>We gots ours!
>http://www.airshipventures.com
>
>Was watching it a few months ago doing patterns around Moffet field.
>
Nice. Blimps do lousy in adverse wind conditions but who needs to
travel anyway wehn teh weather is bad?

^_^

--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[Flydive]

wrote:

>
> Oh really, and how do you figure that. Any idea what his altitude was
> when
> **** started happening? "

3400 ft.

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>
>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>
>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
Bertie
>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>
>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
:
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming
pile
>>>>> >:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>>strikes:
>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
turboprop,
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine
>>has a
>>>>> jet
>>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
>>>>> could
>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
>>pure
>>>>> jet
>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bertie
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>>
>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>>>
>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>
>>>No! Hell no!
>>>
>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>
>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>
Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!


--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

ah > wrote in news:4973fe28$0$57681
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> ah > wrote in
>> anews.com:
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> ah > wrote in news:49728b5c$0$57670
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:%Focl.29929$H12.18354
>>>>>> @newsfe12.iad:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> John > wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:32b8ee0b-1587-4404-a9f3-e33d06d50c51
>>>>>> @u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>>>>>>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the
>>>> Hudson
>>>>>>>>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about
>>>>>>>>>> > birdstrikes,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They
>>>>>>>>>> > sure picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is
>>>>>>>>>> > ok...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet
engines
>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>>> fail all on their own.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, according to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
>>>>>>>> channel=busav&
>>>>>>>>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor
>>>> stalls/surges
>>>>>>>>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>>>>>>>>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine
>>>> designs
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction.
Since
>>>>>>>>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would
assume
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or
>>>>>>>>> simulator training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing
the
>>>>>>>>> matter or
>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator
session.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
>>>>>>>> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle
and/or
>>>>>>>> shutting down anyhow.
>>>>>>>> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine
>>>>>> straight
>>>>>>>> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away
happily
>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Awww, maxie make a witty!
>>>>>
>>>>> ROLF!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tie me kangaroo down, sport.
>>>
>>> What-ho, Squiffy?
>>
>>
>> uh wwuh uh wwuh uh whiggga whigga whuh..
>
> Cabbages on the ceiling, Ser!

Rice in all the crevices.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQbJw-
:

> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
>
>>"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> snip of your usual bull**** ->
>>>
>>> Good job Gertie. After the absence of your ignorance for a couple of
>>> months, the newsgroup begins to show signs of becoming useful again,
>>> and here you are, spouting your wanna be troll nonsense, and cross
>>> posting to the kook world.
>>>
>>> Are you afraid Mx was stealing your thunder?
>>
>>Nope, i just like watching you bitch and moan. It's a bit like
> watching a
>>turtle turned on it's back.
>>
>>
>>Bertie
>>
> Whenever I find an injured animal I always try to help it.
>
> It makes me feel warm inside...

Well, Maxie will never learn if we do it for him.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

Eeyore > wrote in
:

>
>
> Government Shill #2 wrote:
>
>> Great Tarverisms #5
>>
>> The pitot tube was added to the first American jets to prevent the
>> kind of failures that killed an entire squadron off Florida. Without
>> P1 and T0 a jet will stall in fog.
>>
>> Thanks to both of you for playing.
>>
>> John
>>
>> rec.aviation.military
>> 11 August 2002
>
> Has he expired ?

What's it to you netkkkop?

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
:

> Government Shill #2 wrote:
>>
>> George > wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder in this example why did the Electra stall and spin?
>>> From my very first lessons it was drilled into my head by all my
>>> instructors "WHEN THE ENGINE FAILS GET THE NOSE DOWN AND FLY THE
>>> AIRPLANE!" I wonder why the Electra didn't remain in a (somewhat)
>>> straight & level attitude? Was the crew too busy, confused, alarmed,
>>> to fly/glide the airplane?
>>
>> ISTR from reading Air Disasters by Macarthur Jobs, that the Electra
>> crashed because the birds took out both engines on one side and the
>> asymmetric thrust of the remaining engines could not be corrected by
>> the available rudder authority. I may be wrong. It was a long time
>> ago that I read about it.
>
> Plus the fact that it happened right after takeoff when it was just
> above stall speed.
>

It wouldn't have been just above stal speed, it would have been just
above V2 whihc would have been at least VSO 1.2

> http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19601004-0
>
> A few seconds after taking off from runway 05, the Electra struck a
> flock of starlings. A number of these birds were ingested in engine
> no.1, 2 and 4. Engine no. 1 was shut down and the prop feathered.
> Shortly after that the no. 2 and 4 engines experienced a substantial
> momentary loss of power. This caused the plane to yaw to the left and
> decelerate to stall speed. The left wing then dropped, the nose
> pitched up and the L-188 rolled left into a spin and fell almost
> vertically into the water.
>
> PROBABLE CAUSE: "The unique and critical sequence of the loss and
> recovery of engine power following bird ingestion, resulting in loss
> of airspeed and control during takeoff. "
>

Loss of airspeed due to the loss of three engines. The HP woudl have
been attempting to maintain altitude with a speed trade and no thrust to
spare. He would have entually hit VMC and rolled doing this. Just like
Concorde..


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

Eeyore > wrote in
:

>
>
> George wrote:
>
>> How about the hijacked jet that crashed off the Atlantic?
>
> And what jet would that be?

Aww, Pooh pooh is setting you up for a put down when he reveals that
Ethiopian didn't crash in the atlantic.

That all you got Poo Poo?

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> "George" > wrote in message
> ..
> . On Jan 18, 3:37 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>
>> I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or Ricky.
>>
>> Are you having an identity crisis?
>
> Take the "a" out of Maxwell & you get MX.
>
> George (aka; Ricky)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------
>
> Wow dicky, you figured that out all on your own?
>
> Take the G out of George or the R out of ricky, and you still have a
> dumb ass.
>


An take the asshole out of MAxie and you got nothing.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
> Good job. You have just proven yourself as stupid and childish as your
> friend.
>


Have you lcated some sort of random insult generatort there Maxie? Maybe on
the Burger King Kids Korner Page?


BTW, yo mama like a cuppa coffee

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQTJw-H0B-
:

> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
>
>>"Viperdoc" > wrote in
:
>>
>>> I flew into somewhere in SD in a Mesaba Saab 340. The flight before
>>> had a bird strike on the windshield (goose), that broke off the
>>> windshield wiper. The wiper blade then hit the prop, which flung the
>>> broken blade through the side of the fuselage, impaling itself in
> the
>>> thigh of one of the pax. He had to go to the operating room for some
>>> sort of surgery, but I do not think it broke his femur. Talk about
> bad
>>> luck.
>>>
>>> They flew in a new prop the next day, and there was some speed tape
> on
>>> the side of the fuselage.
>>>
>>
>>yipes. An airplane I uswed to fly had a wiper come loose and go right
>>through the engine, trashing it, but that is bad luck.
>>
>>BTW, thehole in the fuse had to have had more than speed tape over it
>>unless thye were ferrying it unpressurised!
>>
>>> I've always wondered if the pax got to ride free on NWA for the rest
>>> of his life.
>>
>>Hehe
>>He'd have been lucky to get a taxi ride to the hospital for free!
>>
>>They'd prolly refuse to give him anything to avoid being seen as
> shoudergin
>>any blame whatsoever, I'd a thought.
>>
>>
>>Bertie
>>
> These two compelling stories are perfect examples of Why I Dont Fly.
>
> <nods>


Well, it is hurtling through space n a cigar tube surounded by high
explosives...
If you don; treckon it's worth the risk, it's wiser to stay put!
Of course, cars are a LOT more dnagerous!



Bertie
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Nope, i just like watching you bitch and moan. It's a bit like
>> watching a turtle turned on it's back.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> At least you have a grip on your own situation.
>
>
>
>
>

Awww, another IKYABWAI poast.

C'mon Maxie a bit of effort here please.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

Bob Officer > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks, Bertie
> the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
:
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>>
>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>>>>
>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
strikes:
>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop,
>>> the
>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has
a
>>> jet
>>>>> engine.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>
>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
>>> could
>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
pure
>>> jet
>>>>> engines.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bertie
>>>>
>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>
>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>
>>>
>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>
>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>
>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>
> No! Hell no!
>
Why not? When getting there was as important as gettign there?



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:eeidnfPyU6ZPc-
:

> Aratzio > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
>
>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:24:17 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>§ñühw¤£f > got double secret probation for
>>writing:
>>
>>>Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>>
>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>>>>
>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
> strikes:
>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop,
>>>the
>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has
> a
>>>jet
>>>>> engine.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>
>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
>>>could
>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
> pure
>>>jet
>>>>> engines.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bertie
>>>>
>>>Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>
>>>Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>
>>>Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>
>>We gots ours!
>>http://www.airshipventures.com
>>
>>Was watching it a few months ago doing patterns around Moffet field.
>>
> Nice. Blimps do lousy in adverse wind conditions but who needs to
> travel anyway wehn teh weather is bad?
>
> ^_^
>

Wel, if you're going any distance, you're going to get weather!

It must have been a fantastic thing to cross an ocean or continent in
one, eh?

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

George > wrote in news:e3a9035c-fe06-41af-8eff-
:

> On Jan 18, 12:46*pm, "Scott M. Kozel" > wrote:
>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>
>> > I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird strikes:
>> > turboprops.
>> > Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>
>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop, the
>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has a
jet
>> engine.
>>
>> > Discuss.
>
> I wonder in this example why did the Electra stall and spin?


Didn't neccesariyl spin. From the description it wasa VMC roll.

> From my very first lessons it was drilled into my head by all my
> instructors "WHEN THE ENGINE FAILS GET THE NOSE DOWN AND FLY THE
> AIRPLANE!" I wonder why the Electra didn't remain in a (somewhat)
> straight & level attitude? Was the crew too busy, confused, alarmed,
> to fly/glide the airplane?

Well, withe three out at that speed and weight they weren't going
anywhere but down. THey didn't fly the airplane, but in large airplanes,
procedures tend to take over. They shouldn't, but they did.
There was an Electra that lost three eingines in Shannon a few years
back. I saw it a few days afer the event in fact. Landed wheels up and
lost three engines, not surprisingly. The captain went around and made
it but I beleive the airplane was empty.

>
> How about the hijacked jet that crashed off the Atlantic? The video of
> that crash shows it hitting at a wing-first, crooked angle. Again, why
> didn't the crew have the thing in a landing configuration which may
> have saved more, if not all, lives?
> Was this crew scared? Did they have guns pointed at their temples?
>
> All kinds of things could have caused these crews too much distraction
> to just fly the airplane, get it in a landing configuration, and belly
> the thing in, as did US Airways in the Hudson.
> This just stresses once again, the importance to me, that when the
> plane gets quiet, get the nose down and fly the airplane, find a
> landing spot, then deal with everything else as able.

True, n the USair case, the airpalne was not in the landing config but
appears to have been at a small flap extension, likely that set for
takeoff.


Bertie
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:Fv7dl.165904$2w3.103613
@newsfe19.iad:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dear fjucktard..
>> Actually that's all i wanted to say.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you too.
>


I know. Don't worry about it.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
:

>
> <Tech Support> wrote in message
> ...
>> Dear VIi
>>
>> I refuse to communicate with anyone who doesn't know their A**hole
>> from a hole in the ground.
>>
>> Good by and may the rag heads take you down.
>>
>> BJ
>
> Now you're proving your self and idiot, because you clearly no nothing
> about me, or how to read your own post.



Bwawhahwhahw!

Lovely.


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> Good job. You have just proven yourself as stupid and childish as your
>> friend.
>>
>
>
> Have you lcated some sort of random insult generatort there Maxie? Maybe
> on
> the Burger King Kids Korner Page?
>
>
> BTW, yo mama like a cuppa coffee
>
> Bertie

Who needs it with a target a stupid as you.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "George" > wrote in message
>> ..
>> . On Jan 18, 3:37 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or Ricky.
>>>
>>> Are you having an identity crisis?
>>
>> Take the "a" out of Maxwell & you get MX.
>>
>> George (aka; Ricky)
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------------------
>>
>> Wow dicky, you figured that out all on your own?
>>
>> Take the G out of George or the R out of ricky, and you still have a
>> dumb ass.
>>
>
>
> An take the asshole out of MAxie and you got nothing.
>
> Bertie

Not true, take the asshole out of anything, and you would be holding a Baby
Bertie.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

Bob Officer > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:39:21 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks, Bertie
> the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>>Bob Officer > wrote in
:
>>
>>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
Bertie
>>> the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>
>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
:
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>>> >:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>>strikes:
>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
turboprop,
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine
has
>>a
>>>>> jet
>>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
>>>>> could
>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
>>pure
>>>>> jet
>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bertie
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>>
>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>>>
>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>
>>> No! Hell no!
>>>
>>Why not? When getting there was as important as gettign there?
>
> I flown planes and flown in them. I have also operated a steam
> locomotive under power. Have you?
>

Nope. Not the Loco Part..

Would love to though. Nearly bought a Steam car a few years back. A
White. Lovely thing, it was gne when i got there.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

Bob Officer > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:37:04 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks, Bertie
> the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
:
>>
>>> Government Shill #2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> George > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder in this example why did the Electra stall and spin?
>>>>> From my very first lessons it was drilled into my head by all my
>>>>> instructors "WHEN THE ENGINE FAILS GET THE NOSE DOWN AND FLY THE
>>>>> AIRPLANE!" I wonder why the Electra didn't remain in a (somewhat)
>>>>> straight & level attitude? Was the crew too busy, confused,
alarmed,
>>>>> to fly/glide the airplane?
>>>>
>>>> ISTR from reading Air Disasters by Macarthur Jobs, that the Electra
>>>> crashed because the birds took out both engines on one side and the
>>>> asymmetric thrust of the remaining engines could not be corrected
by
>>>> the available rudder authority. I may be wrong. It was a long time
>>>> ago that I read about it.
>>>
>>> Plus the fact that it happened right after takeoff when it was just
>>> above stall speed.
>>>
>>
>>It wouldn't have been just above stal speed, it would have been just
>>above V2 whihc would have been at least VSO 1.2
>>
>>> http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19601004-0
>>>
>>> A few seconds after taking off from runway 05, the Electra struck a
>>> flock of starlings. A number of these birds were ingested in engine
>>> no.1, 2 and 4. Engine no. 1 was shut down and the prop feathered.
>>> Shortly after that the no. 2 and 4 engines experienced a substantial
>>> momentary loss of power. This caused the plane to yaw to the left
and
>>> decelerate to stall speed. The left wing then dropped, the nose
>>> pitched up and the L-188 rolled left into a spin and fell almost
>>> vertically into the water.
>>>
>>> PROBABLE CAUSE: "The unique and critical sequence of the loss and
>>> recovery of engine power following bird ingestion, resulting in loss
>>> of airspeed and control during takeoff. "
>>>
>>
>>Loss of airspeed due to the loss of three engines. The HP woudl have
>>been attempting to maintain altitude with a speed trade and no thrust
to
>>spare. He would have entually hit VMC and rolled doing this. Just like
>>Concorde..
>
> No one can fault Scully. He has exactly the same number of take offs
> and landings. That he swam away from his last with no loss passengers
> and crew is a good thing.
>
>

At the end of the day, tha's all that counts. There are those who would
try and tamper with success, though. Evel fjukkers.
We have an obscene name for them, so if any reader is of a timid
disposition, they had best look away now. We call them..

Management pilots.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

Bob Officer > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> > wrote:
>
>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>
>>>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>Bertie
>>>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming
>>pile
>>>>>>> >:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth
$1
:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>>>>strikes:
>>>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
>>turboprop,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine
>>>>has a
>>>>>>> jet
>>>>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
generally
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
>>>>pure
>>>>>>> jet
>>>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bertie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>>>
>>>>>No! Hell no!
>>>>>
>>>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>>
>>>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>>
>>Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>
> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>
> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)

Excelelnt.

>
> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
> suffered breathing problems.


Pretty much the same as pilts, then.
>
> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with more
> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years ago
> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and started
> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too late.
>
> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.

Guess what?


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/05/06/223448/toxic-fumes-in-
airliner-cabins-ignored-by-authorities.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/feb/26/theairlineindustry.uknews

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cockpit-fumes-check-on-
ba-jets-683819.html

www.welcomeaboardtoxicairlines.com/watamediapack.pdf


http://www.corporatewatch.org/?lid=3073



Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
> :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> Nope, i just like watching you bitch and moan. It's a bit like
>>> watching a turtle turned on it's back.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> At least you have a grip on your own situation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Awww, another IKYABWAI poast.
>
> C'mon Maxie a bit of effort here please.
>
> Bertie

Effort? What, you wanna play Squirty the ****Drip again?

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

In message >, Bob Officer wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> > wrote:
>
> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
> >
> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
> >>>
> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
> >Bertie
> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
> :
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming
> >pile
> >>>>>> >:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
> :
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
> >>>strikes:
> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
> >turboprop,
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine
> >>>has a
> >>>>>> jet
> >>>>>>>> engine.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
> >>>>>> could
> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
> >>>pure
> >>>>>> jet
> >>>>>>>> engines.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Bertie
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
> >>>>
> >>>>No! Hell no!
> >>>>
> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
> >>
> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
> >>
> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>
> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>
Not while its running.

> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>
Yeap. Coal fired mostly.

> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
> suffered breathing problems.
>
My granpa was one :)
Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the **** I was
later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.

> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with more
> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years ago
> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and started
> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too late.
>
YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** & moan
about the conditions.

> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>
Ever seen a track weasel?

^_^

--
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people
y gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden
surpations.... The means of defense against foreign danger historically have bec
me the instruments of tyranny at home."
-James Madison

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> news:94e057be-6ea5-4cfe-98f2-271d6e3bbd91
@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Good job. You have just proven yourself as stupid and childish as
>>> your friend.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Have you lcated some sort of random insult generatort there Maxie?
>> Maybe on
>> the Burger King Kids Korner Page?
>>
>>
>> BTW, yo mama like a cuppa coffee
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Who needs it with a target a stupid as you.
>


Target?


bwawahwhhawhhawh!

Oh Got me again there Maxie.



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "George" > wrote in message
>>> news:b3b5c219-1618-4c7d-9d4f-e1aaf646b26a@
35g2000pry.googlegroups.com
>>> .. . On Jan 18, 3:37 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or
>>>> Ricky.
>>>>
>>>> Are you having an identity crisis?
>>>
>>> Take the "a" out of Maxwell & you get MX.
>>>
>>> George (aka; Ricky)
>>>
>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -- --------------------
>>>
>>> Wow dicky, you figured that out all on your own?
>>>
>>> Take the G out of George or the R out of ricky, and you still have a
>>> dumb ass.
>>>
>>
>>
>> An take the asshole out of MAxie and you got nothing.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Not true, take the asshole out of anything, and you would be holding a
> Baby Bertie.
>

Ah, more IKYABWAI lames..



C'mon maxie at least try to makeit a little bit interesting.



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
:

> In message >, Bob Officer
> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>> >:
>> >
>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>> >:
>> >>>
>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>> >Bertie
>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
>> :
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming
>> >pile
>> >>>>>> >:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>> >>>strikes:
>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
>> >turboprop,
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
>> >>>>>>>> engine
>> >>>has a
>> >>>>>> jet
>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
>> >>>>>>>> generally
>> >>>>>> could
>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with
>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>>pure
>> >>>>>> jet
>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>> >>>>
>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>> >>>>
>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>> >>
>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>> >>
>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>
>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>
> Not while its running.
>
>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>
> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>
>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
>> suffered breathing problems.
>>
> My granpa was one :)
> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the **** I
> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>
>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with more
>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years ago
>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and started
>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too late.
>>
> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** & moan
> about the conditions.
>
>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>>
> Ever seen a track weasel?
>

Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is it?



> ^_^
>
> --
> "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of
> the people y gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than
> by violent and sudden surpations.... The means of defense against
> foreign danger historically have bec me the instruments of tyranny at
> home." -James Madison
>
>

[Aratzio]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:33:38 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
§ñühw¤£f > got double secret probation for
writing:

>Aratzio > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>
>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:24:17 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>§ñühw¤£f > got double secret probation for
>>writing:
>>
>>>Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>>
>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>>>>
>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>strikes:
>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a turboprop,
>>>the
>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine has
>a
>>>jet
>>>>> engine.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>
>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
>>>could
>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
>pure
>>>jet
>>>>> engines.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bertie
>>>>
>>>Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>
>>>Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>
>>>Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>
>>We gots ours!
>>http://www.airshipventures.com
>>
>>Was watching it a few months ago doing patterns around Moffet field.
>>
>Nice. Blimps do lousy in adverse wind conditions but who needs to
>travel anyway wehn teh weather is bad?
>
>^_^

They fly a dirigible. Check out the placement of the engines.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

Eeyore > wrote in
:

>
>
> George wrote:
>
>> How about the hijacked jet that crashed off the Atlantic?
>
> And what jet would that be?

See?


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Nope, i just like watching you bitch and moan. It's a bit like
>>>> watching a turtle turned on it's back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> At least you have a grip on your own situation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Awww, another IKYABWAI poast.
>>
>> C'mon Maxie a bit of effort here please.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Effort? What, you wanna play Squirty the ****Drip again?


Well, if you want to be ****ed on again, not a lot i can do to stop that.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

Bob Officer > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:44:19 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks, Bertie
> the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>>Bob Officer > wrote in
:
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:37:04 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
Bertie
>>> the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
:
>>>>
>>>>> Government Shill #2 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> George > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder in this example why did the Electra stall and spin?
>>>>>>> From my very first lessons it was drilled into my head by all my
>>>>>>> instructors "WHEN THE ENGINE FAILS GET THE NOSE DOWN AND FLY THE
>>>>>>> AIRPLANE!" I wonder why the Electra didn't remain in a
(somewhat)
>>>>>>> straight & level attitude? Was the crew too busy, confused,
>>alarmed,
>>>>>>> to fly/glide the airplane?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ISTR from reading Air Disasters by Macarthur Jobs, that the
Electra
>>>>>> crashed because the birds took out both engines on one side and
the
>>>>>> asymmetric thrust of the remaining engines could not be corrected
>>by
>>>>>> the available rudder authority. I may be wrong. It was a long
time
>>>>>> ago that I read about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plus the fact that it happened right after takeoff when it was
just
>>>>> above stall speed.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It wouldn't have been just above stal speed, it would have been just
>>>>above V2 whihc would have been at least VSO 1.2
>>>>
>>>>> http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19601004-0
>>>>>
>>>>> A few seconds after taking off from runway 05, the Electra struck
a
>>>>> flock of starlings. A number of these birds were ingested in
engine
>>>>> no.1, 2 and 4. Engine no. 1 was shut down and the prop feathered.
>>>>> Shortly after that the no. 2 and 4 engines experienced a
substantial
>>>>> momentary loss of power. This caused the plane to yaw to the left
>>and
>>>>> decelerate to stall speed. The left wing then dropped, the nose
>>>>> pitched up and the L-188 rolled left into a spin and fell almost
>>>>> vertically into the water.
>>>>>
>>>>> PROBABLE CAUSE: "The unique and critical sequence of the loss and
>>>>> recovery of engine power following bird ingestion, resulting in
loss
>>>>> of airspeed and control during takeoff. "
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Loss of airspeed due to the loss of three engines. The HP woudl have
>>>>been attempting to maintain altitude with a speed trade and no
thrust
>>to
>>>>spare. He would have entually hit VMC and rolled doing this. Just
like
>>>>Concorde..
>>>
>>> No one can fault Scully. He has exactly the same number of take offs
>>> and landings. That he swam away from his last with no loss
passengers
>>> and crew is a good thing.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>At the end of the day, tha's all that counts. There are those who
would
>>try and tamper with success, though. Evel fjukkers.
>>We have an obscene name for them, so if any reader is of a timid
>>disposition, they had best look away now. We call them..
>>
>>Management pilots.
>
> We have those too on the railroad.
>
> They are generally called Accountants.

At least they don;'t pretend to be engineers!

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

Bob Officer > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:49:57 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks, Bertie
> the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>>Bob Officer > wrote in
:
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>Bertie
>>>>>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming
>>>>pile
>>>>>>>>> >:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8
$eth
>>$1
:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>>>>>>strikes:
>>>>>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
>>>>turboprop,
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
engine
>>>>>>has a
>>>>>>>>> jet
>>>>>>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
>>generally
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with
the
>>>>>>pure
>>>>>>>>> jet
>>>>>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Bertie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No! Hell no!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>>>>
>>>>>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>>>>
>>>>Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>>
>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>>
>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>
>>Excelelnt.
>
> The engines I road we have the full ear muff/sound reduction. The
> SP4449 and the both of the UP steam engines. I also road in an steam
> engine at the of 5... But that hardly counts. (my dad was steam and
> diesel locomotive engineer) The others were as a adult.
>
>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
>>> suffered breathing problems.
>>
>>Pretty much the same as pilts, then.
>
> Yep, but I think the fumes and hearing damage might be higher in the
> railroad business. The length of daily exposure before 1973 was 16
> hours/day/7 days a week.
>
>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with more
>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years ago
>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
started
>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too late.
>>>
>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>>
>>Guess what?
>>
>>
>>http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/05/06/223448/toxic-fumes-in-
>>airliner-cabins-ignored-by-authorities.html
>>
>>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/feb/26/theairlineindustry.uknews
>>
>>http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cockpit-fumes-check-on-
>>ba-jets-683819.html
>>
>>www.welcomeaboardtoxicairlines.com/watamediapack.pdf
>>
>>
>>http://www.corporatewatch.org/?lid=3073
>
> Yep, I used those studies myself to help the union combat the
> carriers demands.
>

They'r ecrap. Just gettin off the stinky 75 in fact. Thank fukiin christ
for that.

> 1315 more days and then I can retire. I've sailed nearly 800 nautical
> miles in the last 3 weeks... I've only fired up the engine three
> times. all three times because the local port master disliked vessels
> coming or leaving under sail. Silence is golden...
>
> Sailboats gotta luff them.
>
>

yes. they won; tpay me to make em go though. ****.

Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Jan 21, 2:49*pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> Bob Officer > wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> > > wrote:
>
> >>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
>
> >>>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> > wrote:
>
> >>>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
>
> >>>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
> >>Bertie
> >>>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>
> >>>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
> :
>
> >>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming
> >>pile
> >>>>>>> >:
>
> >>>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth
> $1
> :
>
> >>>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
> >>>>strikes:
> >>>>>>>>>> turboprops.
> >>>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>
> >>>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
> >>turboprop,
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine
> >>>>has a
> >>>>>>> jet
> >>>>>>>>> engine.
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>
> >>>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
> generally
> >>>>>>> could
> >>>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
> >>>>pure
> >>>>>>> jet
> >>>>>>>>> engines.
>
> >>>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>
> >>>>>>>>Bertie
>
> >>>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>
> >>>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>
> >>>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>
> >>>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>
> >>>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>
> >>>>>No! Hell no!
>
> >>>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>
> >>>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>
> >>Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>
> > Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>
> > They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
> > about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>
> Excelelnt.
>
>
>
> > Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
> > suffered breathing problems.
>
> Pretty much the same as pilts, then.
>
>
>
> > Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
> > hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with more
> > than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years ago
> > the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and started
> > a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too late.
>
> > Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
> > generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>
> Guess what?
>
> http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/05/06/223448/toxic-fumes-in-
> airliner-cabins-ignored-by-authorities.html
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/feb/26/theairlineindustry.uknews
>
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cockpit-fumes-check-on-
> ba-jets-683819.html
>
> www.welcomeaboardtoxicairlines.com/watamediapack.pdf
>
> http://www.corporatewatch.org/?lid=3073
>
> Bertie

Man, the kerosene smell of a hot re-fuel of the Otter during skydive
operations (Spaceland, Houston Gulf, '80's & '90's) was part of the
experience.

Had a chance to wander through a Blackhawk at Wings Over houston last
year and the smell brought it all back. Right down to the Sunday
morning first jump of the day when all the pickled eggs and beer farts
would begin to make an appearance at 5K. Mix in a little toxic TexMex
for flavor and you were lucky if you were sitting by the aft door.

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
:
>
>> In message >, Bob Officer
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>> >
>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> >Bertie
>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
>>> :
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
steaming
>>> >pile
>>> >>>>>> >:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>>> >>>strikes:
>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
>>> >turboprop,
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
>>> >>>>>>>> engine
>>> >>>has a
>>> >>>>>> jet
>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
>>> >>>>>>>> generally
>>> >>>>>> could
>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with
>>> >>>>>>>> the
>>> >>>pure
>>> >>>>>> jet
>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>> >>
>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>> >>
>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>>
>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>>
>> Not while its running.
>>
>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>>
>> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>
>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
>>> suffered breathing problems.
>>>
>> My granpa was one :)
>> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the ****
I
>> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>
>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with more
>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years
ago
>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
started
>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too late.
>>>
>> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** & moan
>> about the conditions.
>>
>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>>>
>> Ever seen a track weasel?
>>
>
>Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is it?
>

back in the olden days the trains toilet dumped straight onto the
tracks...the TP that persisted was called a "track weasel".


--
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[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:36:12 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>
>>In message >, Bob Officer
wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>> >
>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> >Bertie
>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
>>> :
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
steaming
>>> >pile
>>> >>>>>> >:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
news:gkvte8$eth$1
>>> :
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>>> >>>strikes:
>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
>>> >turboprop,
>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
engine
>>> >>>has a
>>> >>>>>> jet
>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
generally
>>> >>>>>> could
>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with
the
>>> >>>pure
>>> >>>>>> jet
>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>> >>
>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>> >>
>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>>
>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>>
>>Not while its running.
>
>I have. :(
>
Didja get to be the shovelman?


>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>>
>>Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>
>One coal and everything else was oil.
>
Leave us not forget *wood*...it was plentiful once across the country.

>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
>>> suffered breathing problems.
>>>
>>My granpa was one :)
>
>So was mine, and so was my Dad.
>
Go Union!

>>Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the **** I
was
>>later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>
>My dad died from lung cancer (both Small Cell Carcinoma and
>Metastasized melanoma.
>
Bummer...the smoke was it?

>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with more
>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years
ago
>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
started
>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too late.
>>>
>>YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** & moan
>>about the conditions.
>
>The ****ed and moaned even then. I've listen to those guys all my
>life.
>
no...they laughed at management...but as for crying about the
conditions?
No real railroader would complain "its too tough".

>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>>>
>>Ever seen a track weasel?
>
>I seen just about everything. including the look on a kids face just
>after he finally looked up and saw the locomotive, just before it hit
>him.
>
Ugh. Musta been a deaf kid.


--
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\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Aratzio > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:33:38 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>§ñühw¤£f > got double secret probation for
>writing:
>
>>Aratzio > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>
>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:24:17 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>§ñühw¤£f > got double secret probation for
>>>writing:
>>>
>>>>Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>>>
>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in news:gkvte8$eth$1
:
>>>>>
>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>>strikes:
>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
turboprop,
>>>>the
>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop engine
has
>>a
>>>>jet
>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and generally
>>>>could
>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with the
>>pure
>>>>jet
>>>>>> engines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bertie
>>>>>
>>>>Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>>
>>>>Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>
>>>We gots ours!
>>>http://www.airshipventures.com
>>>
>>>Was watching it a few months ago doing patterns around Moffet field.
>>>
>>Nice. Blimps do lousy in adverse wind conditions but who needs to
>>travel anyway wehn teh weather is bad?
>>
>>^_^
>
>They fly a dirigible. Check out the placement of the engines.
>
So they're side mounted. They dont make a blimp that can kickass in
strong winds.
Too Much Surface Area, fyi.

--
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[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

Bob Officer > wrote in
:

> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:51:48 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks, Bertie
> the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>>Bob Officer > wrote in
:
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:44:19 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
Bertie
>>> the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bob Officer > wrote in
:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:37:04 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>Bertie
>>>>> the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Government Shill #2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder in this example why did the Electra stall and spin?
>>>>>>>>> From my very first lessons it was drilled into my head by all
my
>>>>>>>>> instructors "WHEN THE ENGINE FAILS GET THE NOSE DOWN AND FLY
THE
>>>>>>>>> AIRPLANE!" I wonder why the Electra didn't remain in a
>>(somewhat)
>>>>>>>>> straight & level attitude? Was the crew too busy, confused,
>>>>alarmed,
>>>>>>>>> to fly/glide the airplane?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ISTR from reading Air Disasters by Macarthur Jobs, that the
>>Electra
>>>>>>>> crashed because the birds took out both engines on one side and
>>the
>>>>>>>> asymmetric thrust of the remaining engines could not be
corrected
>>>>by
>>>>>>>> the available rudder authority. I may be wrong. It was a long
>>time
>>>>>>>> ago that I read about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plus the fact that it happened right after takeoff when it was
>>just
>>>>>>> above stall speed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It wouldn't have been just above stal speed, it would have been
just
>>>>>>above V2 whihc would have been at least VSO 1.2
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19601004-0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A few seconds after taking off from runway 05, the Electra
struck
>>a
>>>>>>> flock of starlings. A number of these birds were ingested in
>>engine
>>>>>>> no.1, 2 and 4. Engine no. 1 was shut down and the prop
feathered.
>>>>>>> Shortly after that the no. 2 and 4 engines experienced a
>>substantial
>>>>>>> momentary loss of power. This caused the plane to yaw to the
left
>>>>and
>>>>>>> decelerate to stall speed. The left wing then dropped, the nose
>>>>>>> pitched up and the L-188 rolled left into a spin and fell almost
>>>>>>> vertically into the water.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PROBABLE CAUSE: "The unique and critical sequence of the loss
and
>>>>>>> recovery of engine power following bird ingestion, resulting in
>>loss
>>>>>>> of airspeed and control during takeoff. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Loss of airspeed due to the loss of three engines. The HP woudl
have
>>>>>>been attempting to maintain altitude with a speed trade and no
>>thrust
>>>>to
>>>>>>spare. He would have entually hit VMC and rolled doing this. Just
>>like
>>>>>>Concorde..
>>>>>
>>>>> No one can fault Scully. He has exactly the same number of take
offs
>>>>> and landings. That he swam away from his last with no loss
>>passengers
>>>>> and crew is a good thing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>At the end of the day, tha's all that counts. There are those who
>>would
>>>>try and tamper with success, though. Evel fjukkers.
>>>>We have an obscene name for them, so if any reader is of a timid
>>>>disposition, they had best look away now. We call them..
>>>>
>>>>Management pilots.
>>>
>>> We have those too on the railroad.
>>>
>>> They are generally called Accountants.
>>
>>At least they don;'t pretend to be engineers!
>
> They try...
>
> but generally get ignored.

There is at least, some justice in this ol world.


Bertie>
>

[ah]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> ah > wrote in news:4973fe28$0$57681
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> ah > wrote in
>>> anews.com:
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>> ah > wrote in news:49728b5c$0$57670
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:%Focl.29929$H12.18354
>>>>>>> @newsfe12.iad:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> John > wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:32b8ee0b-1587-4404-a9f3-e33d06d50c51
>>>>>>> @u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>>>>>>>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in the
>>>>> Hudson
>>>>>>>>>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about
>>>>>>>>>>> > birdstrikes,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They
>>>>>>>>>>> > sure picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody is
>>>>>>>>>>> > ok...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet
> engines
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>>>> fail all on their own.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, according to
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
>>>>>>>>> channel=busav&
>>>>>>>>>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor
>>>>> stalls/surges
>>>>>>>>>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>>>>>>>>>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine
>>>>> designs
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction.
> Since
>>>>>>>>>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would
> assume
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or
>>>>>>>>>> simulator training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing
> the
>>>>>>>>>> matter or
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator
> session.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through the
>>>>>>>>> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle
> and/or
>>>>>>>>> shutting down anyhow.
>>>>>>>>> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the engine
>>>>>>> straight
>>>>>>>>> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away
> happily
>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>>> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Awww, maxie make a witty!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ROLF!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tie me kangaroo down, sport.
>>>>
>>>> What-ho, Squiffy?
>>>
>>>
>>> uh wwuh uh wwuh uh whiggga whigga whuh..
>>
>> Cabbages on the ceiling, Ser!
>
> Rice in all the crevices.

Makes a whole new meaning for "chop-stix", eh?
--
ah

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

wrote in
:

> On Jan 21, 2:49*pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> Bob Officer > wrote
>> innews:ta0fn45t6pdfks8hkgigp638
> :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤
> £f
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> >>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>> >:
>>
>> >>>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw
> ¤£f
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >>>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>> >:
>>
>> >>>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>> >>Bertie
>> >>>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
>> :
>>
>> >>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
>> >>>>>>> steaming
>> >>pile
>> >>>>>>> >:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>> >>>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth
>> $1
>> :
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>> >>>>strikes:
>> >>>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
>> >>turboprop,
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
>> >>>>>>>>> engine
>> >>>>has a
>> >>>>>>> jet
>> >>>>>>>>> engine.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
>> generally
>> >>>>>>> could
>> >>>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with
>> >>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>pure
>> >>>>>>> jet
>> >>>>>>>>> engines.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>
>> >>>>>>>>Bertie
>>
>> >>>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>
>> >>>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>
>> >>>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>
>> >>>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>
>> >>>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>
>> >>>>>No! Hell no!
>>
>> >>>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>
>> >>>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>
>> >>Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>
>> > Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>
>> > They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
>> > about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>
>> Excelelnt.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
>> > suffered breathing problems.
>>
>> Pretty much the same as pilts, then.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
>> > hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with more
>> > than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years
>> > ago the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
>> > started a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too
>> > late.
>>
>> > Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
>> > generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>>
>> Guess what?
>>
>> http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/05/06/223448/toxic-fumes-
in-
>> airliner-cabins-ignored-by-authorities.html
>>
>>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/feb/26/theairlineindustry.ukne
>> ws
>>
>> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cockpit-fumes-check-
on-
>> ba-jets-683819.html
>>
>> www.welcomeaboardtoxicairlines.com/watamediapack.pdf
>>
>> http://www.corporatewatch.org/?lid=3073
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Man, the kerosene smell of a hot re-fuel of the Otter during skydive
> operations (Spaceland, Houston Gulf, '80's & '90's) was part of the
> experience.
>
> Had a chance to wander through a Blackhawk at Wings Over houston last
> year and the smell brought it all back. Right down to the Sunday
> morning first jump of the day when all the pickled eggs and beer farts
> would begin to make an appearance at 5K. Mix in a little toxic TexMex
> for flavor and you were lucky if you were sitting by the aft door.

Well, this stuff is different. it's not fuel gettng in, well there is
some of that as wel, but engine lube oil, which, depending on the brand,
contains **** that was developed as a chemical warfare agent by the
germans in the 30s
See Tricresyl organo phosphates, just to name one. In some types of
airplanes you can actually smell it. RR powered 757s and Bae 146s for
instance are amongst the worst, but anything that uses bleed air is
dumping some in. It's quite a different smell from burnt kerosene,
though.
Boeing are going with a seperate blwoer for the 787 because of this
problem.

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
et:

> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
>
>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
:
>>
>>> In message >, Bob Officer
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>> >:
>>>> >
>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>> >:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>> >Bertie
>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
>>>> :
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
> steaming
>>>> >pile
>>>> >>>>>> >:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of bird
>>>> >>>strikes:
>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
>>>> >turboprop,
>>>> >>>>>> the
>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
>>>> >>>>>>>> engine
>>>> >>>has a
>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
>>>> >>>>>>>> generally
>>>> >>>>>> could
>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those with
>>>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>>pure
>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>>> >>
>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>>>
>>> Not while its running.
>>>
>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>>>
>>> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>>
>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
>>>> suffered breathing problems.
>>>>
>>> My granpa was one :)
>>> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the ****
> I
>>> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>>
>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with more
>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years
> ago
>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
> started
>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too late.
>>>>
>>> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** & moan
>>> about the conditions.
>>>
>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>>>>
>>> Ever seen a track weasel?
>>>
>>
>>Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is it?
>>
>
> back in the olden days the trains toilet dumped straight onto the
> tracks...the TP that persisted was called a "track weasel".
>
>


OK never heard of that. ANd now it's lodged in my head forever. When
will I learn?


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

ah > wrote in news:4979159a$0$57669
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> ah > wrote in news:4973fe28$0$57681
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> ah > wrote in
>>>> anews.com:
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>> ah > wrote in news:49728b5c$0$57670
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in news:%Focl.29929$H12.18354
>>>>>>>> @newsfe12.iad:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>> John > wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:32b8ee0b-1587-4404-a9f3-e33d06d50c51
>>>>>>>> @u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 3:12 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kingfish writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>> > Holy smokes! CNN is reporting an airliner went down in
the
>>>>>> Hudson
>>>>>>>>>>>> > after departing LaGuardia. I heard something about
>>>>>>>>>>>> > birdstrikes,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> > can't imagine a double engine failure due to that(?) They
>>>>>>>>>>>> > sure picked a cold day to go swimming... Hope everybody
is
>>>>>>>>>>>> > ok...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bird strikes are a leading cause of engine failure. Jet
>> engines
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>>>>> fail all on their own.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, according to
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?
>>>>>>>>>> channel=busav&
>>>>>>>>>>> id=news/eng08036.xml
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> By the way, the study's authors noted that compressor
>>>>>> stalls/surges
>>>>>>>>>>> account for two-thirds of the engine malfunctions in today's
>>>>>>>>>>> turbofans. This is a change from earlier generation turbine
>>>>>> designs
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> which uncontained failures were the principal malfunction.
>> Since
>>>>>>>>>>> stall/ surge is the primary engine malfunction, one would
>> assume
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> it would be a regular item during initial, recurrent or
>>>>>>>>>>> simulator training. And yet, I cannot recall ever reviewing
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> matter or
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>> exposed to a compressor stall/surge during a simulator
>> session.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have, but only a couple of times and just to run through
the
>>>>>>>>>> drill.Most checklists just have you retarding the throttle
>> and/or
>>>>>>>>>> shutting down anyhow.
>>>>>>>>>> Most times nowadays with high bypass fans it trashes the
engine
>>>>>>>> straight
>>>>>>>>>> away, unlike the old JT8s and such which would fart away
>> happily
>>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>>>> until you pulled the thrust lever back.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sounds like you, retarded and farting away.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Awww, maxie make a witty!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ROLF!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tie me kangaroo down, sport.
>>>>>
>>>>> What-ho, Squiffy?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> uh wwuh uh wwuh uh whiggga whigga whuh..
>>>
>>> Cabbages on the ceiling, Ser!
>>
>> Rice in all the crevices.
>
> Makes a whole new meaning for "chop-stix", eh?

It had an old meaning?

Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "George" > wrote in message
>>>> news:b3b5c219-1618-4c7d-9d4f-e1aaf646b26a@
> 35g2000pry.googlegroups.com
>>>> .. . On Jan 18, 3:37 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or
>>>>> Ricky.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you having an identity crisis?
>>>>
>>>> Take the "a" out of Maxwell & you get MX.
>>>>
>>>> George (aka; Ricky)
>>>>
>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -- --------------------
>>>>
>>>> Wow dicky, you figured that out all on your own?
>>>>
>>>> Take the G out of George or the R out of ricky, and you still have a
>>>> dumb ass.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An take the asshole out of MAxie and you got nothing.
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Not true, take the asshole out of anything, and you would be holding a
>> Baby Bertie.
>>
>
> Ah, more IKYABWAI lames..
>
>
>
> C'mon maxie at least try to makeit a little bit interesting.
>
>
>
> Bertie

Sorry, no one can make you interesting.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, i just like watching you bitch and moan. It's a bit like
>>>>> watching a turtle turned on it's back.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>>
>>>> At least you have a grip on your own situation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Awww, another IKYABWAI poast.
>>>
>>> C'mon Maxie a bit of effort here please.
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Effort? What, you wanna play Squirty the ****Drip again?
>
>
> Well, if you want to be ****ed on again, not a lot i can do to stop that.
>
> Bertie

So you admit your illness and inability to restrain yourself.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "George" > wrote in message
>>>>> news:b3b5c219-1618-4c7d-9d4f-e1aaf646b26a@
>> 35g2000pry.googlegroups.com
>>>>> .. . On Jan 18, 3:37 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or
>>>>>> Ricky.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you having an identity crisis?
>>>>>
>>>>> Take the "a" out of Maxwell & you get MX.
>>>>>
>>>>> George (aka; Ricky)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -- --------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow dicky, you figured that out all on your own?
>>>>>
>>>>> Take the G out of George or the R out of ricky, and you still have
a
>>>>> dumb ass.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> An take the asshole out of MAxie and you got nothing.
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> Not true, take the asshole out of anything, and you would be holding
a
>>> Baby Bertie.
>>>
>>
>> Ah, more IKYABWAI lames..
>>
>>
>>
>> C'mon maxie at least try to makeit a little bit interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Sorry, no one can make you interesting.
>
>
>

Sure they can Maxie.

For instance, the nice folks over at alt.usenet.kooksfind me dead boring
unless I feed them fresh k00ks like you.

Bertie

[Rich Ahrens[_2_]]

on 1/22/09 7:29 AM said the following:
> Had a chance to wander through a Blackhawk at Wings Over houston last
> year and the smell brought it all back. Right down to the Sunday
> morning first jump of the day when all the pickled eggs and beer farts
> would begin to make an appearance at 5K. Mix in a little toxic TexMex
> for flavor and you were lucky if you were sitting by the aft door.

Sounds a lot like Wisconsin all the time!

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:00:35 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks, Bertie
>the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
et:
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>>
>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
:
>>>>
>>>>> In message >, Bob
Officer
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
§ñühw¤£f
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>>>> >:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
§ñühw¤£f
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
pile
>>>>>> >:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>> >Bertie
>>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
>>> steaming
>>>>>> >pile
>>>>>> >>>>>> >:
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>>>>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of
bird
>>>>>> >>>strikes:
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
>>>>>> >turboprop,
>>>>>> >>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine
>>>>>> >>>has a
>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> generally
>>>>>> >>>>>> could
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those
with
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>pure
>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not while its running.
>>>>>
>>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy.
(usually
>>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
>>>>>> suffered breathing problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>> My granpa was one :)
>>>>> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the
****
>>> I
>>>>> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
>>>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with
more
>>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years
>>> ago
>>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
>>> started
>>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too
late.
>>>>>>
>>>>> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** &
moan
>>>>> about the conditions.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
>>>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ever seen a track weasel?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is it?
>>>>
>>>
>>> back in the olden days the trains toilet dumped straight onto the
>>> tracks...the TP that persisted was called a "track weasel".
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>OK never heard of that. ANd now it's lodged in my head forever. When
>>will I learn?
>
>Would the same thing happen if the blue ice sublimated leaving only
>the residue floating in the air?
>
Didnt airlines used to just dump straight out the plane?
IIRC people & things were getting hit with GIANT ICEY TURD-CUBES.

<shudder>

--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:49:33 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>
>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>
>>>On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:36:12 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message >, Bob
Officer
>>wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>>> >:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
§ñühw¤£f
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>>> >:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>> >Bertie
>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
>>>>> :
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
>>steaming
>>>>> >pile
>>>>> >>>>>> >:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>news:gkvte8$eth$1
>>>>> :
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of
bird
>>>>> >>>strikes:
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
>>>>> >turboprop,
>>>>> >>>>>> the
>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
>>engine
>>>>> >>>has a
>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
>>generally
>>>>> >>>>>> could
>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those
with
>>the
>>>>> >>>pure
>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>>>>
>>>>Not while its running.
>>>
>>>I have. :(
>>>
>>Didja get to be the shovelman?
>
>No the engine had a working feed system. I do believe when Dad Fired
>steam on the L&N they had "stokers" that hand fed the coal if the
>feed broke or didn't work.
>
>Originally an operating crew would be the engineer, firemen, and if
>they had cars, a conductor and brakemen for every x numbers of cars
>on the territory. Stokers were not really members of "the crew", but
>worked under the direction of the Locomotive Firemen. The Engineer
>operated the locomotive and was responsible for the trains safe
>operation. The Conductor was in charge of cars and the contents,
>there of and the assignment and positioning of his brake men. The
>brakes on the train were set (by hand) at the direction of the
>engineer. (all those whistle signals.)
>
>Then the airbrakes came about, the need for multiple brakemen for x
>number of cars.
>
>
Yeah..."improvements" to the system cut manpower. now all you have is
one or two people per train trying to stay awake.
So much for "progress".


>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>>>>
>>>>Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>>
>>>One coal and everything else was oil.
>>>
>>Leave us not forget *wood*...it was plentiful once across the
country.
>>
>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
>>>>> suffered breathing problems.
>>>>>
>>>>My granpa was one :)
>>>
>>>So was mine, and so was my Dad.
>>>
>>Go Union!
>
>However That wasn't how it worked. Grandad worked the Rock Island St
>Louis to Sikeston he retired at 65 with something like 50 years of
>service. Pop worked for the L&N @ Cleveland, Tn. Then he came west
>during WW2. He went to work for the SP and retired with 45+ years of
>combined service. There was 20 months of military service, and he was
>discharged because of heart murmur.
>

Still...back in the day...those *were* good jobs.
At least you had some security.
Downsizing wasn't the norm. Now, its "oh ****, the passenger load has
dropped off by 5%, lets fire a bunch of people and cut service".


>>>>Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the ****
I
>>was
>>>>later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>>
>>>My dad died from lung cancer (both Small Cell Carcinoma and
>>>Metastasized melanoma.
>>>
>>Bummer...the smoke was it?
>
>Asbestos and/or smoke.
>
Me-so-thee-lee-oh-ma.
<nods>

>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
>>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with
more
>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years
>>ago
>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
>>started
>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too late.
>>>>>
>>>>YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** & moan
>>>>about the conditions.
>>>
>>>The ****ed and moaned even then. I've listen to those guys all my
>>>life.
>>>
>>no...they laughed at management...but as for crying about the
>>conditions?
>
>Yep the ****ed and moaned about that too.
>
Well yer fambly wasn't "stoic" then.

>>No real railroader would complain "its too tough".
>
>Being gone most of the time? Missing their families? If it wasn't for
>the "good money", they would have left.

My grandpa was lucky then. He worked one line and was home often
enough...GNRY.

> Today the railroad has cut
>its pay for new hires to 30%. Wages have effectively dropped since
>1985 to about 65% of what they were compared to pre-1985. The
>employees with seniority (like me) have made up for this by just
>working trips. I now work 25 days a month compared to the 18-19 days
>I worked before 1985. The cry was a demand for more productivity. the
>Grace commission of Ronnie agreed. The funny thing is while
>productivity went up wages decreased. The number of working employees
>decreased and got the average age increased. this increased the
>health care costs and over the next 4 contracts the carriers cried
>about the increases to health care cost. (the fact the employees
>health care increases because of increase of work stress also was
>ignored.)
>
I ****ing hated Reagan.
His passing made me smile :)


>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
>>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>>>>>
>>>>Ever seen a track weasel?
>>>
>>>I seen just about everything. including the look on a kids face just
>>>after he finally looked up and saw the locomotive, just before it
hit
>>>him.
>>>
>>Ugh. Musta been a deaf kid.
>
>Nope, listening to his ipod at full volume.
>
Holy shnikeies!!!

>When the conductor and brakemen went back to look, then found his
>Ipod laying near the impact sight, still playing at full volume.
>He was listening to some sort of Rap.
>
ZOMGZ! I *knew* it! "Rap kills".


--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:l_WdnfjqXdGNd-
:

> Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
>
>>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:00:35 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks, Bertie
>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>
>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
et:
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>> >:
>>>>
>>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message >, Bob
> Officer
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
> §ñühw¤£f
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>>>>> >:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
> §ñühw¤£f
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
> pile
>>>>>>> >:
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
> alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>>> >Bertie
>>>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
>>>> steaming
>>>>>>> >pile
>>>>>>> >>>>>> >:
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of
> bird
>>>>>>> >>>strikes:
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
>>>>>>> >turboprop,
>>>>>>> >>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine
>>>>>>> >>>has a
>>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> generally
>>>>>>> >>>>>> could
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those
> with
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >>>pure
>>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not while its running.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy.
> (usually
>>>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
>>>>>>> suffered breathing problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My granpa was one :)
>>>>>> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the
> ****
>>>> I
>>>>>> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
>>>>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with
> more
>>>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years
>>>> ago
>>>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
>>>> started
>>>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too
> late.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** &
> moan
>>>>>> about the conditions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
>>>>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ever seen a track weasel?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is it?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> back in the olden days the trains toilet dumped straight onto the
>>>> tracks...the TP that persisted was called a "track weasel".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>OK never heard of that. ANd now it's lodged in my head forever. When
>>>will I learn?
>>
>>Would the same thing happen if the blue ice sublimated leaving only
>>the residue floating in the air?
>>
> Didnt airlines used to just dump straight out the plane?
> IIRC people & things were getting hit with GIANT ICEY TURD-CUBES.
>
> <shudder>
>

Well, yes and no. There was a vent that sometimes woudl develop an
icicle, but it wasn't supposed to do that!

Bertie

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

In message >, Bob Officer wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:11:06 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> > wrote:
>
> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
> >
> >>On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:49:33 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
> >>>
> >>>>On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:36:12 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>In message >, Bob
> >Officer
> >>>wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
> §ñühw¤£f
> >>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >>>>>> >:
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
> >§ñühw¤£f
> >>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >>>>>> >:
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
> >alt.usenet.kooks,
> >>>>>> >Bertie
> >>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
> >>>>>> :
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
> >>>steaming
> >>>>>> >pile
> >>>>>> >>>>>> >:
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
> >>>news:gkvte8$eth$1
> >>>>>> :
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of
> >bird
> >>>>>> >>>strikes:
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
> >>>>>> >turboprop,
> >>>>>> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
> >>>engine
> >>>>>> >>>has a
> >>>>>> >>>>>> jet
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
> >>>generally
> >>>>>> >>>>>> could
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those
> >with
> >>>the
> >>>>>> >>>pure
> >>>>>> >>>>>> jet
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Not while its running.
> >>>>
> >>>>I have. :(
> >>>>
> >>>Didja get to be the shovelman?
> >>
> >>No the engine had a working feed system. I do believe when Dad Fired
> >>steam on the L&N they had "stokers" that hand fed the coal if the
> >>feed broke or didn't work.
> >>
> >>Originally an operating crew would be the engineer, firemen, and if
> >>they had cars, a conductor and brakemen for every x numbers of cars
> >>on the territory. Stokers were not really members of "the crew", but
> >>worked under the direction of the Locomotive Firemen. The Engineer
> >>operated the locomotive and was responsible for the trains safe
> >>operation. The Conductor was in charge of cars and the contents,
> >>there of and the assignment and positioning of his brake men. The
> >>brakes on the train were set (by hand) at the direction of the
> >>engineer. (all those whistle signals.)
> >>
> >>Then the airbrakes came about, the need for multiple brakemen for x
> >>number of cars.
> >>
> >Yeah..."improvements" to the system cut manpower. now all you have is
> >one or two people per train trying to stay awake.
> >So much for "progress".
>
> You don't know the half of it...
>
The roundhouse up in essex was taken down and people lost jobs.
Every time theres some manpower saving device, people loose jobs.
Eventually we'll all sit at home or whatever and the robots will
do everything.

> >
> >>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy. (usually
> >>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
> >>>>
> >>>>One coal and everything else was oil.
> >>>>
> >>>Leave us not forget *wood*...it was plentiful once across the
> >country.
> >>>
> >>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
> >>>>>> suffered breathing problems.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>My granpa was one :)
> >>>>
> >>>>So was mine, and so was my Dad.
> >>>>
> >>>Go Union!
> >>
> >>However That wasn't how it worked. Grandad worked the Rock Island St
> >>Louis to Sikeston he retired at 65 with something like 50 years of
> >>service. Pop worked for the L&N @ Cleveland, Tn. Then he came west
> >>during WW2. He went to work for the SP and retired with 45+ years of
> >>combined service. There was 20 months of military service, and he was
> >>discharged because of heart murmur.
> >>
> >
> >Still...back in the day...those *were* good jobs.
> >At least you had some security.
> >Downsizing wasn't the norm. Now, its "oh ****, the passenger load has
> >dropped off by 5%, lets fire a bunch of people and cut service".
>
> up until about 1990 there was a seasonal flow. As the business would
> ebb people in operating crafts would be cut off/layed off. Then
> called back in senority order. Some would stick around and others
> would find work eslewhere and wouldn't come back. Around here lots of
> kids put themselves through college working all summer for the RR and
> then getting cut off right up until the xmas rush. Then they would be
> cutoff until the summer. here is even an area where they kids would
> work only the weekends getting cut off every monday morning and
> called back every friday night.
>
Part timers get no bennies, sure.

> It would generally take a person 5-7 years before they could work
> year round. 10-12 before they could work regular jobs on a temporay
> basis. and 20 plus to hold any sort of regular job on a year round
> basis.
>
> Railroad reschedual work on a need be basis (within the scope of the
> union contracts) so their is a big degree of non-control. They are
> subject tot he demands and needs of the shippers.
>
Floriduh just gave CSX a big huge contract.

>
> >>>>>Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the ****
> >I
> >>>was
> >>>>>later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
> >>>>
> >>>>My dad died from lung cancer (both Small Cell Carcinoma and
> >>>>Metastasized melanoma.
> >>>>
> >>>Bummer...the smoke was it?
> >>
> >>Asbestos and/or smoke.
> >>
> >Me-so-thee-lee-oh-ma.
> ><nods>
>
> You got it.
>
Well I hope not :)

> >>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
> >>>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with
> >more
> >>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years
> >>>ago
> >>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
> >>>started
> >>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too late.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** & moan
> >>>>>about the conditions.
> >>>>
> >>>>The ****ed and moaned even then. I've listen to those guys all my
> >>>>life.
> >>>>
> >>>no...they laughed at management...but as for crying about the
> >>>conditions?
> >>
> >>Yep the ****ed and moaned about that too.
> >>
> >Well yer fambly wasn't "stoic" then.
>
> all to often the conditions were what you could make them. the
> trouble is most of the people were content to work in substandard
> conditions.
>
After the union busting in Bisbee Arizona in 1910 or so...sure...beats getting
put on box cars, taken into the desert, and shot by thugs.

> >>>No real railroader would complain "its too tough".
> >>
> >>Being gone most of the time? Missing their families? If it wasn't for
> >>the "good money", they would have left.
> >
> >My grandpa was lucky then. He worked one line and was home often
> >enough...GNRY.
>
> Dad was gone from home about 60% of the nights. The road work had a
> layover at the away from home point. It was almost like a second home
> for him.
>
Did he have a second wife?
;)

> >> Today the railroad has cut
> >>its pay for new hires to 30%. Wages have effectively dropped since
> >>1985 to about 65% of what they were compared to pre-1985. The
> >>employees with seniority (like me) have made up for this by just
> >>working trips. I now work 25 days a month compared to the 18-19 days
> >>I worked before 1985. The cry was a demand for more productivity. the
> >>Grace commission of Ronnie agreed. The funny thing is while
> >>productivity went up wages decreased. The number of working employees
> >>decreased and got the average age increased. this increased the
> >>health care costs and over the next 4 contracts the carriers cried
> >>about the increases to health care cost. (the fact the employees
> >>health care increases because of increase of work stress also was
> >>ignored.)
> >>
> >I ****ing hated Reagan.
> >His passing made me smile :)
>
> The only thing was he never felt the pain he caused. The idiot would
> cut firewood for fun. did he realize his actions created a group of
> people that were cutting firewood just to feed their families.
>
He lived in a lovely 1950's family show that played in his head.
The world to him was just one big Leave It to Beaver episode.


> >>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
> >>>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Ever seen a track weasel?
> >>>>
> >>>>I seen just about everything. including the look on a kids face just
> >>>>after he finally looked up and saw the locomotive, just before it
> >hit
> >>>>him.
> >>>>
> >>>Ugh. Musta been a deaf kid.
> >>
> >>Nope, listening to his ipod at full volume.
> >>
> >Holy shnikeies!!!
>
> I just said "****!"
>
Sad.

> >>When the conductor and brakemen went back to look, then found his
> >>Ipod laying near the impact sight, still playing at full volume.
> >>He was listening to some sort of Rap.
> >>
> >ZOMGZ! I *knew* it! "Rap kills".
>
> That's a valid assumption.
>
> It was the train that killed him, it was the Rap!
>
Ipods are dangerous and should be banned.
<nods>


--
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people
by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and
sudden usurpations.... The means of defense against foreign danger historically
have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
-James Madison

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

In message >, Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:
> §ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:l_WdnfjqXdGNd-
> :
>
> > Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> > >:
> >
> >>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:00:35 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks, Bertie
> >>the Bunyip > wrote:
> >>
> >>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
> et:
> >>>
> >>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
> >>>> >:
> >>>>
> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
> :
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> In message >, Bob
> > Officer
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
> > §ñühw¤£f
> >>>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >>>>>>> >:
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
> > §ñühw¤£f
> >>>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
> > pile
> >>>>>>> >:
> >>>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
> > alt.usenet.kooks,
> >>>>>>> >Bertie
> >>>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:t96dnQfJw-
> >>>>>>> :
> >>>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
> >>>> steaming
> >>>>>>> >pile
> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >:
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem of
> > bird
> >>>>>>> >>>strikes:
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is a
> >>>>>>> >turboprop,
> >>>>>>> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a turboprop
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine
> >>>>>>> >>>has a
> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex, and
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> generally
> >>>>>>> >>>>>> could
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of those
> > with
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> >>>pure
> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
> >>>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
> >>>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not while its running.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy.
> > (usually
> >>>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf. and
> >>>>>>> suffered breathing problems.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> My granpa was one :)
> >>>>>> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the
> > ****
> >>>> I
> >>>>>> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still suffer
> >>>>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads with
> > more
> >>>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten years
> >>>> ago
> >>>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
> >>>> started
> >>>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too
> > late.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** &
> > moan
> >>>>>> about the conditions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and 2nd
> >>>>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ever seen a track weasel?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> back in the olden days the trains toilet dumped straight onto the
> >>>> tracks...the TP that persisted was called a "track weasel".
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>OK never heard of that. ANd now it's lodged in my head forever. When
> >>>will I learn?
> >>
> >>Would the same thing happen if the blue ice sublimated leaving only
> >>the residue floating in the air?
> >>
> > Didnt airlines used to just dump straight out the plane?
> > IIRC people & things were getting hit with GIANT ICEY TURD-CUBES.
> >
> > <shudder>
> >
>
> Well, yes and no. There was a vent that sometimes woudl develop an
> icicle, but it wasn't supposed to do that!
>
MOMMY MOMMY I FOUND A COMET!!!111!!!!

Do aliens use tampons???



--
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people
by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and
sudden usurpations.... The means of defense against foreign danger historically
have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
-James Madison

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
:

> In message >, Bertie the
> Bunyip wrote:
>> §ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:l_WdnfjqXdGNd-
>> :
>>
>> > Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>> > >:
>> >
>> >>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:00:35 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>> >>Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>> et:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming
>> >>>> pile >:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>> :
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> In message >, Bob
>> > Officer
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>> > §ñühw¤£f
>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
>> >>>>>>> >pile >:
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>> > §ñühw¤£f
>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>> >>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
>> > pile
>> >>>>>>> >:
>> >>>>>>> >>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
>> > alt.usenet.kooks,
>> >>>>>>> >Bertie
>> >>>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>news:t96dnQfJw- :
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
>> >>>> steaming
>> >>>>>>> >pile
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >:
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of
>> > bird
>> >>>>>>> >>>strikes:
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example is
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>> >turboprop,
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> turboprop engine
>> >>>>>>> >>>has a
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex,
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and generally
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> could
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> those
>> > with
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> >>>pure
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>> >>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>> >>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Not while its running.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy.
>> > (usually
>> >>>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf.
>> >>>>>>> and suffered breathing problems.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> My granpa was one :)
>> >>>>>> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the
>> > ****
>> >>>> I
>> >>>>>> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still
>> >>>>>>> suffer hearing loss. Most all operating employees for
>> >>>>>>> railroads with
>> > more
>> >>>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten
>> >>>>>>> years
>> >>>> ago
>> >>>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses and
>> >>>> started
>> >>>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too
>> > late.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** &
>> > moan
>> >>>>>> about the conditions.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and
>> >>>>>>> 2nd generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the
>> >>>>>>> cab.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ever seen a track weasel?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is it?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> back in the olden days the trains toilet dumped straight onto
>> >>>> the tracks...the TP that persisted was called a "track weasel".
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>OK never heard of that. ANd now it's lodged in my head forever.
>> >>>When will I learn?
>> >>
>> >>Would the same thing happen if the blue ice sublimated leaving only
>> >>the residue floating in the air?
>> >>
>> > Didnt airlines used to just dump straight out the plane?
>> > IIRC people & things were getting hit with GIANT ICEY TURD-CUBES.
>> >
>> > <shudder>
>> >
>>
>> Well, yes and no. There was a vent that sometimes woudl develop an
>> icicle, but it wasn't supposed to do that!
>>
> MOMMY MOMMY I FOUND A COMET!!!111!!!!
>
> Do aliens use tampons???
>

What didyou think comets were? Surely the big string trailing behind
gave you a clue?


Bertie

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
:
>
>> In message >, Bertie the
>> Bunyip wrote:
>>> §ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:l_WdnfjqXdGNd-
>>> :
>>>
>>> > Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> > >:
>>> >
>>> >>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:00:35 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> >>Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>> et:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming
>>> >>>> pile >:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>> :
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> In message >, Bob
>>> > Officer
>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> > §ñühw¤£f
>>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
>>> >>>>>>> >pile >:
>>> >>>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> > §ñühw¤£f
>>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a
steaming
>>> > pile
>>> >>>>>>> >:
>>> >>>>>>> >>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
>>> > alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> >>>>>>> >Bertie
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>news:t96dnQfJw- :
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
>>> >>>> steaming
>>> >>>>>>> >pile
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >:
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of
>>> > bird
>>> >>>>>>> >>>strikes:
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example
is
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a
>>> >>>>>>> >turboprop,
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> turboprop engine
>>> >>>>>>> >>>has a
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex,
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and generally
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> could
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> those
>>> > with
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>>> >>>pure
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Not while its running.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy.
>>> > (usually
>>> >>>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf.
>>> >>>>>>> and suffered breathing problems.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> My granpa was one :)
>>> >>>>>> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who
the
>>> > ****
>>> >>>> I
>>> >>>>>> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still
>>> >>>>>>> suffer hearing loss. Most all operating employees for
>>> >>>>>>> railroads with
>>> > more
>>> >>>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten
>>> >>>>>>> years
>>> >>>> ago
>>> >>>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses
and
>>> >>>> started
>>> >>>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too
>>> > late.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt ****
&
>>> > moan
>>> >>>>>> about the conditions.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and
>>> >>>>>>> 2nd generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the
>>> >>>>>>> cab.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Ever seen a track weasel?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is
it?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> back in the olden days the trains toilet dumped straight onto
>>> >>>> the tracks...the TP that persisted was called a "track
weasel".
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>OK never heard of that. ANd now it's lodged in my head forever.
>>> >>>When will I learn?
>>> >>
>>> >>Would the same thing happen if the blue ice sublimated leaving
only
>>> >>the residue floating in the air?
>>> >>
>>> > Didnt airlines used to just dump straight out the plane?
>>> > IIRC people & things were getting hit with GIANT ICEY TURD-CUBES.
>>> >
>>> > <shudder>
>>> >
>>>
>>> Well, yes and no. There was a vent that sometimes woudl develop an
>>> icicle, but it wasn't supposed to do that!
>>>
>> MOMMY MOMMY I FOUND A COMET!!!111!!!!
>>
>> Do aliens use tampons???
>>
>
>What didyou think comets were? Surely the big string trailing behind
>gave you a clue?
>
>
Its cosmic poop...

0_0

--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:39:39 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>
>>In message >, Bob Officer
wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:11:06 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>> >
>>> >>On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:49:33 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:36:12 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks,
§ñühw¤£f
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>In message >, Bob
>>> >Officer
>>> >>>wrote:
>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> §ñühw¤£f
>>> >>>>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
pile
>>> >>>>>> >:
>>> >>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> >§ñühw¤£f
>>> >>>>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
pile
>>> >>>>>> >:
>>> >>>>>> >>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
>>> >alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> >>>>>> >Bertie
>>> >>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
news:t96dnQfJw-
>>> >>>>>> :
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
>>> >>>steaming
>>> >>>>>> >pile
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >:
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>> >>>news:gkvte8$eth$1
>>> >>>>>> :
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem
of
>>> >bird
>>> >>>>>> >>>strikes:
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example
is a
>>> >>>>>> >turboprop,
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a
turboprop
>>> >>>engine
>>> >>>>>> >>>has a
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex,
and
>>> >>>generally
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> could
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of
those
>>> >with
>>> >>>the
>>> >>>>>> >>>pure
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>> >>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>> >>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>> >>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>Not while its running.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>I have. :(
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Didja get to be the shovelman?
>>> >>
>>> >>No the engine had a working feed system. I do believe when Dad
Fired
>>> >>steam on the L&N they had "stokers" that hand fed the coal if the
>>> >>feed broke or didn't work.
>>> >>
>>> >>Originally an operating crew would be the engineer, firemen, and
if
>>> >>they had cars, a conductor and brakemen for every x numbers of
cars
>>> >>on the territory. Stokers were not really members of "the crew",
but
>>> >>worked under the direction of the Locomotive Firemen. The
Engineer
>>> >>operated the locomotive and was responsible for the trains safe
>>> >>operation. The Conductor was in charge of cars and the contents,
>>> >>there of and the assignment and positioning of his brake men. The
>>> >>brakes on the train were set (by hand) at the direction of the
>>> >>engineer. (all those whistle signals.)
>>> >>
>>> >>Then the airbrakes came about, the need for multiple brakemen for
x
>>> >>number of cars.
>>> >>
>>> >Yeah..."improvements" to the system cut manpower. now all you have
is
>>> >one or two people per train trying to stay awake.
>>> >So much for "progress".
>>>
>>> You don't know the half of it...
>>>
>>The roundhouse up in essex was taken down and people lost jobs.
>>Every time theres some manpower saving device, people loose jobs.
>>Eventually we'll all sit at home or whatever and the robots will
>>do everything.
>
>Yep and if things don't done exactly right...
>
Well the last big accident in the news was the guy on a cell phone in
Los Angeles or nearby and that was *human* error.
The robots cant do much worse.

>
>>> >>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy.
(usually
>>> >>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>One coal and everything else was oil.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Leave us not forget *wood*...it was plentiful once across the
>>> >country.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf.
and
>>> >>>>>> suffered breathing problems.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>My granpa was one :)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>So was mine, and so was my Dad.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Go Union!
>>> >>
>>> >>However That wasn't how it worked. Grandad worked the Rock Island
St
>>> >>Louis to Sikeston he retired at 65 with something like 50 years
of
>>> >>service. Pop worked for the L&N @ Cleveland, Tn. Then he came
west
>>> >>during WW2. He went to work for the SP and retired with 45+ years
of
>>> >>combined service. There was 20 months of military service, and he
was
>>> >>discharged because of heart murmur.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >Still...back in the day...those *were* good jobs.
>>> >At least you had some security.
>>> >Downsizing wasn't the norm. Now, its "oh ****, the passenger load
has
>>> >dropped off by 5%, lets fire a bunch of people and cut service".
>>>
>>> up until about 1990 there was a seasonal flow. As the business
would
>>> ebb people in operating crafts would be cut off/layed off. Then
>>> called back in senority order. Some would stick around and others
>>> would find work eslewhere and wouldn't come back. Around here lots
of
>>> kids put themselves through college working all summer for the RR
and
>>> then getting cut off right up until the xmas rush. Then they would
be
>>> cutoff until the summer. here is even an area where they kids would
>>> work only the weekends getting cut off every monday morning and
>>> called back every friday night.
>>>
>>Part timers get no bennies, sure.
>
>If they worked one day a month... they had the health bennies. almost
>everyone worked one day a month. the only time I didn't was, away on
>Active Military Duty or when I was off injured on duty. I still got
>bennies then.
>
Well...obviously I know absolutely nothing about this subject.
Not that it would stop me :)

>>> It would generally take a person 5-7 years before they could work
>>> year round. 10-12 before they could work regular jobs on a temporay
>>> basis. and 20 plus to hold any sort of regular job on a year round
>>> basis.
>>>
>>> Railroad reschedual work on a need be basis (within the scope of
the
>>> union contracts) so their is a big degree of non-control. They are
>>> subject tot he demands and needs of the shippers.
>>>
>>Floriduh just gave CSX a big huge contract.
>
>good
>
bad for the everglades or something, iirc.
or it takes from the general fund and the poor need the money more.


>>>
>>> >>>>>Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the
****
>>> >I
>>> >>>was
>>> >>>>>later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>My dad died from lung cancer (both Small Cell Carcinoma and
>>> >>>>Metastasized melanoma.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Bummer...the smoke was it?
>>> >>
>>> >>Asbestos and/or smoke.
>>> >>
>>> >Me-so-thee-lee-oh-ma.
>>> ><nods>
>>>
>>> You got it.
>>>
>>Well I hope not :)
>
>I hope so too. ugly way to go.
>
Libby Montana knows a thing or two about aSSbest0s...
**** WR Grace to hell.

>>> >>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still
suffer
>>> >>>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads
with
>>> >more
>>> >>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten
years
>>> >>>ago
>>> >>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses
and
>>> >>>started
>>> >>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too
late.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** &
moan
>>> >>>>>about the conditions.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>The ****ed and moaned even then. I've listen to those guys all
my
>>> >>>>life.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>no...they laughed at management...but as for crying about the
>>> >>>conditions?
>>> >>
>>> >>Yep the ****ed and moaned about that too.
>>> >>
>>> >Well yer fambly wasn't "stoic" then.
>>>
>>> all to often the conditions were what you could make them. the
>>> trouble is most of the people were content to work in substandard
>>> conditions.
>>>
>>After the union busting in Bisbee Arizona in 1910 or
so...sure...beats getting
>>put on box cars, taken into the desert, and shot by thugs.
>
>So much for freedom taken for granted, isn't it.
>
Union busting was a violent and oft forgotten part of american history.
Trying to organise could get you killed, back in the day.


>>> >>>No real railroader would complain "its too tough".
>>> >>
>>> >>Being gone most of the time? Missing their families? If it wasn't
for
>>> >>the "good money", they would have left.
>>> >
>>> >My grandpa was lucky then. He worked one line and was home often
>>> >enough...GNRY.
>>>
>>> Dad was gone from home about 60% of the nights. The road work had a
>>> layover at the away from home point. It was almost like a second
home
>>> for him.
>>>
>>Did he have a second wife?
>>;)
>
>Only after he divorced his 1st wife.
>
Ouch.

>>> >> Today the railroad has cut
>>> >>its pay for new hires to 30%. Wages have effectively dropped
since
>>> >>1985 to about 65% of what they were compared to pre-1985. The
>>> >>employees with seniority (like me) have made up for this by just
>>> >>working trips. I now work 25 days a month compared to the 18-19
days
>>> >>I worked before 1985. The cry was a demand for more productivity.
the
>>> >>Grace commission of Ronnie agreed. The funny thing is while
>>> >>productivity went up wages decreased. The number of working
employees
>>> >>decreased and got the average age increased. this increased the
>>> >>health care costs and over the next 4 contracts the carriers
cried
>>> >>about the increases to health care cost. (the fact the employees
>>> >>health care increases because of increase of work stress also was
>>> >>ignored.)
>>> >>
>>> >I ****ing hated Reagan.
>>> >His passing made me smile :)
>>>
>>> The only thing was he never felt the pain he caused. The idiot
would
>>> cut firewood for fun. did he realize his actions created a group of
>>> people that were cutting firewood just to feed their families.
>>>
>>He lived in a lovely 1950's family show that played in his head.
>>The world to him was just one big Leave It to Beaver episode.
>
>or Father Knows Best. I think he felt himself more like Ozzie Nelson.
>If you watch the way he spoke, it was much of the same phrase tempo.
>

Some of the nicest people are really assholes.

^_^

>>> >>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and
2nd
>>> >>>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>Ever seen a track weasel?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>I seen just about everything. including the look on a kids face
just
>>> >>>>after he finally looked up and saw the locomotive, just before
it
>>> >hit
>>> >>>>him.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Ugh. Musta been a deaf kid.
>>> >>
>>> >>Nope, listening to his ipod at full volume.
>>> >>
>>> >Holy shnikeies!!!
>>>
>>> I just said "****!"
>>>
>>Sad.
>
>It was.
>
>>> >>When the conductor and brakemen went back to look, then found his
>>> >>Ipod laying near the impact sight, still playing at full volume.
>>> >>He was listening to some sort of Rap.
>>> >>
>>> >ZOMGZ! I *knew* it! "Rap kills".
>>>
>>> That's a valid assumption.
>>>
>>> It wasn't the train that killed him, it was the Rap!
>>>
>>Ipods are dangerous and should be banned.
>><nods>
>
>Well, I use an mp3 player to feed my music selections into the Car or
>Boats music player. I have an 80 gb device. It also works as a spare
>back-up. stores my Navigation Maps/RIS files.
>
>Counseled use.
>
>User beware doing *this* could result in *bad* things.
>
>
Ban in-car video screens in the front seat area.
OOPS! There goes the OnStar screen in moms caddy.
:(


--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>> .. .
>>>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "George" > wrote in message
>>>>>> news:b3b5c219-1618-4c7d-9d4f-e1aaf646b26a@
>>> 35g2000pry.googlegroups.com
>>>>>> .. . On Jan 18, 3:37 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or
>>>>>>> Ricky.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you having an identity crisis?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take the "a" out of Maxwell & you get MX.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> George (aka; Ricky)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> -- --------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow dicky, you figured that out all on your own?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take the G out of George or the R out of ricky, and you still have
> a
>>>>>> dumb ass.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> An take the asshole out of MAxie and you got nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>>
>>>> Not true, take the asshole out of anything, and you would be holding
> a
>>>> Baby Bertie.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ah, more IKYABWAI lames..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> C'mon maxie at least try to makeit a little bit interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> Sorry, no one can make you interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Sure they can Maxie.
>
> For instance, the nice folks over at alt.usenet.kooksfind me dead boring
> unless I feed them fresh k00ks like you.
>
> Bertie

Oh yeah, lamer, that's real important. (wink wink)

A supposed/wannabe/thinksheis airline pilot, that spends all his off time
thinking he is some kind of world class troll, and aspiring to the like of
alt.usenet.kooks.

Yep, your the real deal. Not.

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

In message >, Bob Officer wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:57:44 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> > wrote:
>
> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
> >
> >>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:39:39 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>In message >, Bob Officer
> >wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:11:06 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >>>> >:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >>On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:49:33 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
> §ñühw¤£f
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
> >>>> >:
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>>On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:36:12 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks,
> >§ñühw¤£f
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>>In message >, Bob
> >>>> >Officer
> >>>> >>>wrote:
> >>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
> >>>> §ñühw¤£f
> >>>> >>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
> >pile
> >>>> >>>>>> >:
> >>>> >>>>>> >
> >>>> >>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
> >>>> >§ñühw¤£f
> >>>> >>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>> >>>>>> >>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
> >pile
> >>>> >>>>>> >:
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
> >>>> >alt.usenet.kooks,
> >>>> >>>>>> >Bertie
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
> >news:t96dnQfJw-
> >>>> >>>>>> :
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
> >>>> >>>steaming
> >>>> >>>>>> >pile
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >:
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
> >>>> >>>news:gkvte8$eth$1
> >>>> >>>>>> :
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem
> >of
> >>>> >bird
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>strikes:
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example
> >is a
> >>>> >>>>>> >turboprop,
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> the
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a
> >turboprop
> >>>> >>>engine
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>has a
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> jet
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex,
> >and
> >>>> >>>generally
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> could
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of
> >those
> >>>> >with
> >>>> >>>the
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>pure
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> jet
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
> >>>> >>>>>> >>
> >>>> >>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
> >>>> >>>>>> >>
> >>>> >>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
> >>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
> >>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>Not while its running.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>I have. :(
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>Didja get to be the shovelman?
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>No the engine had a working feed system. I do believe when Dad
> >Fired
> >>>> >>steam on the L&N they had "stokers" that hand fed the coal if the
> >>>> >>feed broke or didn't work.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>Originally an operating crew would be the engineer, firemen, and
> >if
> >>>> >>they had cars, a conductor and brakemen for every x numbers of
> >cars
> >>>> >>on the territory. Stokers were not really members of "the crew",
> >but
> >>>> >>worked under the direction of the Locomotive Firemen. The
> >Engineer
> >>>> >>operated the locomotive and was responsible for the trains safe
> >>>> >>operation. The Conductor was in charge of cars and the contents,
> >>>> >>there of and the assignment and positioning of his brake men. The
> >>>> >>brakes on the train were set (by hand) at the direction of the
> >>>> >>engineer. (all those whistle signals.)
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>Then the airbrakes came about, the need for multiple brakemen for
> >x
> >>>> >>number of cars.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >Yeah..."improvements" to the system cut manpower. now all you have
> >is
> >>>> >one or two people per train trying to stay awake.
> >>>> >So much for "progress".
> >>>>
> >>>> You don't know the half of it...
> >>>>
> >>>The roundhouse up in essex was taken down and people lost jobs.
> >>>Every time theres some manpower saving device, people loose jobs.
> >>>Eventually we'll all sit at home or whatever and the robots will
> >>>do everything.
> >>
> >>Yep and if things don't done exactly right...
> >>
> >Well the last big accident in the news was the guy on a cell phone in
> >Los Angeles or nearby and that was *human* error.
> >The robots cant do much worse.
>
> Human Stupidity.
>
> The man didn't have his priorities right.
>
Indeed. SO if you eliminate the human element...

>
> >>>> >>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy.
> >(usually
> >>>> >>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
> >>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>One coal and everything else was oil.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>Leave us not forget *wood*...it was plentiful once across the
> >>>> >country.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf.
> >and
> >>>> >>>>>> suffered breathing problems.
> >>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>My granpa was one :)
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>So was mine, and so was my Dad.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>Go Union!
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>However That wasn't how it worked. Grandad worked the Rock Island
> >St
> >>>> >>Louis to Sikeston he retired at 65 with something like 50 years
> >of
> >>>> >>service. Pop worked for the L&N @ Cleveland, Tn. Then he came
> >west
> >>>> >>during WW2. He went to work for the SP and retired with 45+ years
> >of
> >>>> >>combined service. There was 20 months of military service, and he
> >was
> >>>> >>discharged because of heart murmur.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >Still...back in the day...those *were* good jobs.
> >>>> >At least you had some security.
> >>>> >Downsizing wasn't the norm. Now, its "oh ****, the passenger load
> >has
> >>>> >dropped off by 5%, lets fire a bunch of people and cut service".
> >>>>
> >>>> up until about 1990 there was a seasonal flow. As the business
> >would
> >>>> ebb people in operating crafts would be cut off/layed off. Then
> >>>> called back in senority order. Some would stick around and others
> >>>> would find work eslewhere and wouldn't come back. Around here lots
> >of
> >>>> kids put themselves through college working all summer for the RR
> >and
> >>>> then getting cut off right up until the xmas rush. Then they would
> >be
> >>>> cutoff until the summer. here is even an area where they kids would
> >>>> work only the weekends getting cut off every monday morning and
> >>>> called back every friday night.
> >>>>
> >>>Part timers get no bennies, sure.
> >>
> >>If they worked one day a month... they had the health bennies. almost
> >>everyone worked one day a month. the only time I didn't was, away on
> >>Active Military Duty or when I was off injured on duty. I still got
> >>bennies then.
> >>
> >Well...obviously I know absolutely nothing about this subject.
> >Not that it would stop me :)
>
> I understand that. :)
>
> That, however, would make a great T-Shirt.
>
> Usenet Confession:
> "Well...obviously I know absolutely nothing about this subject.
> Not that it would stop me :)"
>
> or Signature

Lets call it "Snuhwolf's Edict".

^_^


> >>>> It would generally take a person 5-7 years before they could work
> >>>> year round. 10-12 before they could work regular jobs on a temporay
> >>>> basis. and 20 plus to hold any sort of regular job on a year round
> >>>> basis.
> >>>>
> >>>> Railroad reschedual work on a need be basis (within the scope of
> >the
> >>>> union contracts) so their is a big degree of non-control. They are
> >>>> subject tot he demands and needs of the shippers.
> >>>>
> >>>Floriduh just gave CSX a big huge contract.
> >>
> >>good
> >>
> >bad for the everglades or something, iirc.
> >or it takes from the general fund and the poor need the money more.
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>>Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who the
> >****
> >>>> >I
> >>>> >>>was
> >>>> >>>>>later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>My dad died from lung cancer (both Small Cell Carcinoma and
> >>>> >>>>Metastasized melanoma.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>Bummer...the smoke was it?
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>Asbestos and/or smoke.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >Me-so-thee-lee-oh-ma.
> >>>> ><nods>
> >>>>
> >>>> You got it.
> >>>>
> >>>Well I hope not :)
> >>
> >>I hope so too. ugly way to go.
> >>
> >Libby Montana knows a thing or two about aSSbest0s...
> >**** WR Grace to hell.
> >
> >>>> >>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still
> >suffer
> >>>> >>>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for railroads
> >with
> >>>> >more
> >>>> >>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten
> >years
> >>>> >>>ago
> >>>> >>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses
> >and
> >>>> >>>started
> >>>> >>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too
> >late.
> >>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt **** &
> >moan
> >>>> >>>>>about the conditions.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>The ****ed and moaned even then. I've listen to those guys all
> >my
> >>>> >>>>life.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>no...they laughed at management...but as for crying about the
> >>>> >>>conditions?
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>Yep the ****ed and moaned about that too.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >Well yer fambly wasn't "stoic" then.
> >>>>
> >>>> all to often the conditions were what you could make them. the
> >>>> trouble is most of the people were content to work in substandard
> >>>> conditions.
> >>>>
> >>>After the union busting in Bisbee Arizona in 1910 or
> >so...sure...beats getting
> >>>put on box cars, taken into the desert, and shot by thugs.
> >>
> >>So much for freedom taken for granted, isn't it.
> >>
> >Union busting was a violent and oft forgotten part of american history.
> >Trying to organise could get you killed, back in the day.
> >
> >
> >>>> >>>No real railroader would complain "its too tough".
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>Being gone most of the time? Missing their families? If it wasn't
> >for
> >>>> >>the "good money", they would have left.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >My grandpa was lucky then. He worked one line and was home often
> >>>> >enough...GNRY.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dad was gone from home about 60% of the nights. The road work had a
> >>>> layover at the away from home point. It was almost like a second
> >home
> >>>> for him.
> >>>>
> >>>Did he have a second wife?
> >>>;)
> >>
> >>Only after he divorced his 1st wife.
> >>
> >Ouch.
>
> I ran across a stat for operating crew marriage expectancy. They
> usually last less than 10 years. We have one guy that's working on
> his 7th marriage most are on their third... I'm still working on my
> 1st. The rate was 1:35 marriages last until retirement. 50% of new
> marriage failing the 1st two years.
>
Possible solution: mormonism. Have a wife at each endpoint.
Problem *solved*.

> I don't know if Flight Crews have the same problems?
>
Thats what the stewardesses ar for.

> The stats might change now that the railroads started hiring and
> training new employees. Most of the new hires are ex-military and
> don't stay more than a year or so and most are divorced already.
>
Hopefully they wont be ptsd and have flashbacks.
:(

> Most new hires are still pumped up and brain washed. They do not make
> good employees.
>
Brain washed by what?

> >>>> >> Today the railroad has cut
> >>>> >>its pay for new hires to 30%. Wages have effectively dropped
> >since
> >>>> >>1985 to about 65% of what they were compared to pre-1985. The
> >>>> >>employees with seniority (like me) have made up for this by just
> >>>> >>working trips. I now work 25 days a month compared to the 18-19
> >days
> >>>> >>I worked before 1985. The cry was a demand for more productivity.
> >the
> >>>> >>Grace commission of Ronnie agreed. The funny thing is while
> >>>> >>productivity went up wages decreased. The number of working
> >employees
> >>>> >>decreased and got the average age increased. this increased the
> >>>> >>health care costs and over the next 4 contracts the carriers
> >cried
> >>>> >>about the increases to health care cost. (the fact the employees
> >>>> >>health care increases because of increase of work stress also was
> >>>> >>ignored.)
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >I ****ing hated Reagan.
> >>>> >His passing made me smile :)
> >>>>
> >>>> The only thing was he never felt the pain he caused. The idiot
> >would
> >>>> cut firewood for fun. did he realize his actions created a group of
> >>>> people that were cutting firewood just to feed their families.
> >>>>
> >>>He lived in a lovely 1950's family show that played in his head.
> >>>The world to him was just one big Leave It to Beaver episode.
> >>
> >>or Father Knows Best. I think he felt himself more like Ozzie Nelson.
> >>If you watch the way he spoke, it was much of the same phrase tempo.
> >>
> >
> >Some of the nicest people are really assholes.
> >
> >^_^
>
> I've heard that. But then I don't thing thy are that nice to start
> with. How can you tell what an actor real character is like.
>
Take away his script?

> >>>> >>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and
> >2nd
> >>>> >>>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the cab.
> >>>> >>>>>>
> >>>> >>>>>Ever seen a track weasel?
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>I seen just about everything. including the look on a kids face
> >just
> >>>> >>>>after he finally looked up and saw the locomotive, just before
> >it
> >>>> >hit
> >>>> >>>>him.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>Ugh. Musta been a deaf kid.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>Nope, listening to his ipod at full volume.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >Holy shnikeies!!!
> >>>>
> >>>> I just said "****!"
> >>>>
> >>>Sad.
> >>
> >>It was.
> >>
> >>>> >>When the conductor and brakemen went back to look, then found his
> >>>> >>Ipod laying near the impact sight, still playing at full volume.
> >>>> >>He was listening to some sort of Rap.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >ZOMGZ! I *knew* it! "Rap kills".
> >>>>
> >>>> That's a valid assumption.
> >>>>
> >>>> It wasn't the train that killed him, it was the Rap!
> >>>>
> >>>Ipods are dangerous and should be banned.
> >>><nods>
> >>
> >>Well, I use an mp3 player to feed my music selections into the Car or
> >>Boats music player. I have an 80 gb device. It also works as a spare
> >>back-up. stores my Navigation Maps/RIS files.
> >>
> >>Counseled use.
> >>
> >>User beware doing *this* could result in *bad* things.
> >>
> >>
> >Ban in-car video screens in the front seat area.
> >OOPS! There goes the OnStar screen in moms caddy.
> >:(
>
> and those GPS units.
>
Only if they are voice operated or heads-up on the windsheild projection
type. Heads up displays like in fighter aircraft should have made it to
cars by now....really.

--
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people
by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and
sudden usurpations.... The means of defense against foreign danger historically
have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
-James Madison

[Bear Bottoms[_4_]]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:09:15 -0600, Viperdoc wrote:

> I flew into somewhere in SD in a Mesaba Saab 340. The flight before had a
> bird strike on the windshield (goose), that broke off the windshield wiper.
> The wiper blade then hit the prop, which flung the broken blade through the
> side of the fuselage, impaling itself in the thigh of one of the pax. He had
> to go to the operating room for some sort of surgery, but I do not think it
> broke his femur. Talk about bad luck.

****, what's good luck?
--
Bear Bottoms
Private Attorney General

[Bear Bottoms[_4_]]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:21:13 -0600, §ñühw¤£f wrote:

> ___ ___ ___ ___
> /\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
> /:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
> /:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
> /:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
> /:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
> \:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
> \::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
> \/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
> /:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

What is this ****?
--
Bear Bottoms
Private Attorney General

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
et:

> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
>
>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
:
>>
>>> In message >, Bertie the
>>> Bunyip wrote:
>>>> §ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:l_WdnfjqXdGNd-
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>> > Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>> > >:
>>>> >
>>>> >>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:00:35 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>> >>Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>>> et:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming
>>>> >>>> pile >:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> In message >, Bob
>>>> > Officer
>>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>> > §ñühw¤£f
>>>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
>>>> >>>>>>> >pile >:
>>>> >>>>>>> >
>>>> >>>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>> > §ñühw¤£f
>>>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a
> steaming
>>>> > pile
>>>> >>>>>>> >:
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
>>>> > alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>> >>>>>>> >Bertie
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>news:t96dnQfJw- :
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
>>>> >>>> steaming
>>>> >>>>>>> >pile
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >:
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the problem
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of
>>>> > bird
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>strikes:
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet engines.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra example
> is
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a
>>>> >>>>>>> >turboprop,
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> the
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> turboprop engine
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>has a
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly complex,
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and generally
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> could
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> those
>>>> > with
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>pure
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Not while its running.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy.
>>>> > (usually
>>>> >>>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were deaf.
>>>> >>>>>>> and suffered breathing problems.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> My granpa was one :)
>>>> >>>>>> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who
> the
>>>> > ****
>>>> >>>> I
>>>> >>>>>> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still
>>>> >>>>>>> suffer hearing loss. Most all operating employees for
>>>> >>>>>>> railroads with
>>>> > more
>>>> >>>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About ten
>>>> >>>>>>> years
>>>> >>>> ago
>>>> >>>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses
> and
>>>> >>>> started
>>>> >>>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years too
>>>> > late.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt ****
> &
>>>> > moan
>>>> >>>>>> about the conditions.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st and
>>>> >>>>>>> 2nd generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the
>>>> >>>>>>> cab.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Ever seen a track weasel?
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is
> it?
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> back in the olden days the trains toilet dumped straight onto
>>>> >>>> the tracks...the TP that persisted was called a "track
> weasel".
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>OK never heard of that. ANd now it's lodged in my head forever.
>>>> >>>When will I learn?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Would the same thing happen if the blue ice sublimated leaving
> only
>>>> >>the residue floating in the air?
>>>> >>
>>>> > Didnt airlines used to just dump straight out the plane?
>>>> > IIRC people & things were getting hit with GIANT ICEY TURD-CUBES.
>>>> >
>>>> > <shudder>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Well, yes and no. There was a vent that sometimes woudl develop an
>>>> icicle, but it wasn't supposed to do that!
>>>>
>>> MOMMY MOMMY I FOUND A COMET!!!111!!!!
>>>
>>> Do aliens use tampons???
>>>
>>
>>What didyou think comets were? Surely the big string trailing behind
>>gave you a clue?
>>
>>
> Its cosmic poop...
>
> 0_0
>
Or, a new Okie delicacy.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>> .. .
>>>>>> "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "George" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:b3b5c219-1618-4c7d-9d4f-e1aaf646b26a@
>>>> 35g2000pry.googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> .. . On Jan 18, 3:37 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not Mx, and you can't seem to decide if you are George or
>>>>>>>> Ricky.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you having an identity crisis?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take the "a" out of Maxwell & you get MX.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> George (aka; Ricky)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -
>>>>>>> -- --------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow dicky, you figured that out all on your own?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take the G out of George or the R out of ricky, and you still
>>>>>>> have
>> a
>>>>>>> dumb ass.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An take the asshole out of MAxie and you got nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>
>>>>> Not true, take the asshole out of anything, and you would be
>>>>> holding
>> a
>>>>> Baby Bertie.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah, more IKYABWAI lames..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> C'mon maxie at least try to makeit a little bit interesting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> Sorry, no one can make you interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sure they can Maxie.
>>
>> For instance, the nice folks over at alt.usenet.kooksfind me dead
>> boring unless I feed them fresh k00ks like you.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Oh yeah, lamer, that's real important. (wink wink)

Nope, just entertaining.
>
> A supposed/wannabe/thinksheis airline pilot, that spends all his off
> time thinking he is some kind of world class troll, and aspiring to
> the like of alt.usenet.kooks.
>
> Yep, your the real deal. Not.
>
>

Yeh, right wannabe boi.


Bertie

[Eeyore[_2_]]

Government Shill #2 wrote:

> Eeyore > wrote:
> >Government Shill #2 wrote:
> >
> >> Great Tarverisms #5
> >>
> >> The pitot tube was added to the first American jets to prevent the
> >> kind of failures that killed an entire squadron off Florida. Without
> >> P1 and T0 a jet will stall in fog.
> >>
> >> Thanks to both of you for playing.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> rec.aviation.military
> >> 11 August 2002
> >
> >Has he expired ?
>
> No. That was the day that he came out with that nonsense.
>
> --
> Shill #2
>
> Great Tarverisms #2
>
> What is the best selling beer in Oz?
>
> Budweiser.
>
> Another illusion shattered.
>
> John
>
> alt.disasters.aviation
> 18 August 2002

I was wondering if Tarver himself has gone to the great aviation boneyard in
the sky.

How's Pilatus going these days btw ?

Graham

[Eeyore[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

> Bob Officer > wrote
> >
> > No one can fault Scully. He has exactly the same number of take offs
> > and landings. That he swam away from his last with no loss passengers
> > and crew is a good thing.
>
> At the end of the day, tha's all that counts. There are those who would
> try and tamper with success, though. Evel fjukkers.
> We have an obscene name for them, so if any reader is of a timid
> disposition, they had best look away now. We call them..
>
> Management pilots.

Engineers call them the 'suits'.

Graham

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
et:
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>> >:
>>
>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>> In message >, Bertie
the
>>>> Bunyip wrote:
>>>>> §ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:l_WdnfjqXdGNd-
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>> > Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>>> > >:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:00:35 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>> >>Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>>>> et:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
steaming
>>>>> >>>> pile >:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> In message >,
Bob
>>>>> > Officer
>>>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>> > §ñühw¤£f
>>>>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a
steaming
>>>>> >>>>>>> >pile >:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in
alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>> > §ñühw¤£f
>>>>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a
>> steaming
>>>>> > pile
>>>>> >>>>>>> >:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
>>>>> > alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >Bertie
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>news:t96dnQfJw-
:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out
a
>>>>> >>>> steaming
>>>>> >>>>>>> >pile
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the
problem
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of
>>>>> > bird
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>strikes:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet
engines.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra
example
>> is
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >turboprop,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> turboprop engine
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>has a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly
complex,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and generally
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> could
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> those
>>>>> > with
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>pure
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Not while its running.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy.
>>>>> > (usually
>>>>> >>>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were
deaf.
>>>>> >>>>>>> and suffered breathing problems.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> My granpa was one :)
>>>>> >>>>>> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who
>> the
>>>>> > ****
>>>>> >>>> I
>>>>> >>>>>> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still
>>>>> >>>>>>> suffer hearing loss. Most all operating employees for
>>>>> >>>>>>> railroads with
>>>>> > more
>>>>> >>>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About
ten
>>>>> >>>>>>> years
>>>>> >>>> ago
>>>>> >>>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses
>> and
>>>>> >>>> started
>>>>> >>>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years
too
>>>>> > late.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt
****
>> &
>>>>> > moan
>>>>> >>>>>> about the conditions.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st
and
>>>>> >>>>>>> 2nd generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in
the
>>>>> >>>>>>> cab.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Ever seen a track weasel?
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is
>> it?
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> back in the olden days the trains toilet dumped straight
onto
>>>>> >>>> the tracks...the TP that persisted was called a "track
>> weasel".
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>OK never heard of that. ANd now it's lodged in my head
forever.
>>>>> >>>When will I learn?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Would the same thing happen if the blue ice sublimated leaving
>> only
>>>>> >>the residue floating in the air?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> > Didnt airlines used to just dump straight out the plane?
>>>>> > IIRC people & things were getting hit with GIANT ICEY TURD-
CUBES.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > <shudder>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, yes and no. There was a vent that sometimes woudl develop
an
>>>>> icicle, but it wasn't supposed to do that!
>>>>>
>>>> MOMMY MOMMY I FOUND A COMET!!!111!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Do aliens use tampons???
>>>>
>>>
>>>What didyou think comets were? Surely the big string trailing behind
>>>gave you a clue?
>>>
>>>
>> Its cosmic poop...
>>
>> 0_0
>>
>Or, a new Okie delicacy.
>
>
WITH A SIDE OF KUDZU!!!!!1111!!!!!


--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:37:43 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>
>>In message >, Bob Officer
wrote:
>>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:57:44 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>> >
>>> >>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:39:39 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>In message >, Bob
Officer
>>> >wrote:
>>> >>>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:11:06 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
§ñühw¤£f
>>> >>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
pile
>>> >>>> >:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >>On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:49:33 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> §ñühw¤£f
>>> >>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming
pile
>>> >>>> >:
>>> >>>> >>>
>>> >>>> >>>>On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:36:12 -0700, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> >§ñühw¤£f
>>> >>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>In message >,
Bob
>>> >>>> >Officer
>>> >>>> >>>wrote:
>>> >>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in
alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> >>>> §ñühw¤£f
>>> >>>> >>>>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a
steaming
>>> >pile
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >:
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in
alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> >>>> >§ñühw¤£f
>>> >>>> >>>>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a
steaming
>>> >pile
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >:
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
>>> >>>> >alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >Bertie
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>> >news:t96dnQfJw-
>>> >>>> >>>>>> :
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched
out a
>>> >>>> >>>steaming
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >pile
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >:
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>> >>>> >>>news:gkvte8$eth$1
>>> >>>> >>>>>> :
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the
problem
>>> >of
>>> >>>> >bird
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>strikes:
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet
engines.
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra
example
>>> >is a
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >turboprop,
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> the
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a
>>> >turboprop
>>> >>>> >>>engine
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>has a
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly
complex,
>>> >and
>>> >>>> >>>generally
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> could
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed
of
>>> >those
>>> >>>> >with
>>> >>>> >>>the
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>pure
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games
here!
>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>Not while its running.
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>I have. :(
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>Didja get to be the shovelman?
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>No the engine had a working feed system. I do believe when
Dad
>>> >Fired
>>> >>>> >>steam on the L&N they had "stokers" that hand fed the coal
if the
>>> >>>> >>feed broke or didn't work.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>Originally an operating crew would be the engineer, firemen,
and
>>> >if
>>> >>>> >>they had cars, a conductor and brakemen for every x numbers
of
>>> >cars
>>> >>>> >>on the territory. Stokers were not really members of "the
crew",
>>> >but
>>> >>>> >>worked under the direction of the Locomotive Firemen. The
>>> >Engineer
>>> >>>> >>operated the locomotive and was responsible for the trains
safe
>>> >>>> >>operation. The Conductor was in charge of cars and the
contents,
>>> >>>> >>there of and the assignment and positioning of his brake
men. The
>>> >>>> >>brakes on the train were set (by hand) at the direction of
the
>>> >>>> >>engineer. (all those whistle signals.)
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>Then the airbrakes came about, the need for multiple
brakemen for
>>> >x
>>> >>>> >>number of cars.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >Yeah..."improvements" to the system cut manpower. now all you
have
>>> >is
>>> >>>> >one or two people per train trying to stay awake.
>>> >>>> >So much for "progress".
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> You don't know the half of it...
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>The roundhouse up in essex was taken down and people lost jobs.
>>> >>>Every time theres some manpower saving device, people loose
jobs.
>>> >>>Eventually we'll all sit at home or whatever and the robots will
>>> >>>do everything.
>>> >>
>>> >>Yep and if things don't done exactly right...
>>> >>
>>> >Well the last big accident in the news was the guy on a cell phone
in
>>> >Los Angeles or nearby and that was *human* error.
>>> >The robots cant do much worse.
>>>
>>> Human Stupidity.
>>>
>>> The man didn't have his priorities right.
>>>
>>Indeed. SO if you eliminate the human element...
>
>You have a programer to blame... :)
>
The "trains" will be AI transforming robots....ala the Transformers.
Oh yeah.

>>> >>>> >>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very
noisy.
>>> >(usually
>>> >>>> >>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>One coal and everything else was oil.
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>Leave us not forget *wood*...it was plentiful once across
the
>>> >>>> >country.
>>> >>>> >>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were
deaf.
>>> >and
>>> >>>> >>>>>> suffered breathing problems.
>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>My granpa was one :)
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>So was mine, and so was my Dad.
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>Go Union!
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>However That wasn't how it worked. Grandad worked the Rock
Island
>>> >St
>>> >>>> >>Louis to Sikeston he retired at 65 with something like 50
years
>>> >of
>>> >>>> >>service. Pop worked for the L&N @ Cleveland, Tn. Then he
came
>>> >west
>>> >>>> >>during WW2. He went to work for the SP and retired with 45+
years
>>> >of
>>> >>>> >>combined service. There was 20 months of military service,
and he
>>> >was
>>> >>>> >>discharged because of heart murmur.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >Still...back in the day...those *were* good jobs.
>>> >>>> >At least you had some security.
>>> >>>> >Downsizing wasn't the norm. Now, its "oh ****, the passenger
load
>>> >has
>>> >>>> >dropped off by 5%, lets fire a bunch of people and cut
service".
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> up until about 1990 there was a seasonal flow. As the business
>>> >would
>>> >>>> ebb people in operating crafts would be cut off/layed off.
Then
>>> >>>> called back in senority order. Some would stick around and
others
>>> >>>> would find work eslewhere and wouldn't come back. Around here
lots
>>> >of
>>> >>>> kids put themselves through college working all summer for the
RR
>>> >and
>>> >>>> then getting cut off right up until the xmas rush. Then they
would
>>> >be
>>> >>>> cutoff until the summer. here is even an area where they kids
would
>>> >>>> work only the weekends getting cut off every monday morning
and
>>> >>>> called back every friday night.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Part timers get no bennies, sure.
>>> >>
>>> >>If they worked one day a month... they had the health bennies.
almost
>>> >>everyone worked one day a month. the only time I didn't was, away
on
>>> >>Active Military Duty or when I was off injured on duty. I still
got
>>> >>bennies then.
>>> >>
>>> >Well...obviously I know absolutely nothing about this subject.
>>> >Not that it would stop me :)
>>>
>>> I understand that. :)
>>>
>>> That, however, would make a great T-Shirt.
>>>
>>> Usenet Confession:
>>> "Well...obviously I know absolutely nothing about this subject.
>>> Not that it would stop me :)"
>>>
>>> or Signature
>>
>>Lets call it "Snuhwolf's Edict".
>
>>^_^
>>
>
>But it did make a great siggy, eh?
>
Its not kewl to quote yerself in a sigfile.

>>> >>>> It would generally take a person 5-7 years before they could
work
>>> >>>> year round. 10-12 before they could work regular jobs on a
temporay
>>> >>>> basis. and 20 plus to hold any sort of regular job on a year
round
>>> >>>> basis.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Railroad reschedual work on a need be basis (within the scope
of
>>> >the
>>> >>>> union contracts) so their is a big degree of non-control. They
are
>>> >>>> subject tot he demands and needs of the shippers.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Floriduh just gave CSX a big huge contract.
>>> >>
>>> >>good
>>> >>
>>> >bad for the everglades or something, iirc.
>>> >or it takes from the general fund and the poor need the money
more.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know
who the
>>> >****
>>> >>>> >I
>>> >>>> >>>was
>>> >>>> >>>>>later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>My dad died from lung cancer (both Small Cell Carcinoma
and
>>> >>>> >>>>Metastasized melanoma.
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>Bummer...the smoke was it?
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>Asbestos and/or smoke.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >Me-so-thee-lee-oh-ma.
>>> >>>> ><nods>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> You got it.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Well I hope not :)
>>> >>
>>> >>I hope so too. ugly way to go.
>>> >>
>>> >Libby Montana knows a thing or two about aSSbest0s...
>>> >**** WR Grace to hell.
>>> >
>>> >>>> >>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still
>>> >suffer
>>> >>>> >>>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for
railroads
>>> >with
>>> >>>> >more
>>> >>>> >>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About
ten
>>> >years
>>> >>>> >>>ago
>>> >>>> >>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing
losses
>>> >and
>>> >>>> >>>started
>>> >>>> >>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years
too
>>> >late.
>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt
**** &
>>> >moan
>>> >>>> >>>>>about the conditions.
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>The ****ed and moaned even then. I've listen to those guys
all
>>> >my
>>> >>>> >>>>life.
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>no...they laughed at management...but as for crying about
the
>>> >>>> >>>conditions?
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>Yep the ****ed and moaned about that too.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >Well yer fambly wasn't "stoic" then.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> all to often the conditions were what you could make them. the
>>> >>>> trouble is most of the people were content to work in
substandard
>>> >>>> conditions.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>After the union busting in Bisbee Arizona in 1910 or
>>> >so...sure...beats getting
>>> >>>put on box cars, taken into the desert, and shot by thugs.
>>> >>
>>> >>So much for freedom taken for granted, isn't it.
>>> >>
>>> >Union busting was a violent and oft forgotten part of american
history.
>>> >Trying to organise could get you killed, back in the day.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>>> >>>No real railroader would complain "its too tough".
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>Being gone most of the time? Missing their families? If it
wasn't
>>> >for
>>> >>>> >>the "good money", they would have left.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >My grandpa was lucky then. He worked one line and was home
often
>>> >>>> >enough...GNRY.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Dad was gone from home about 60% of the nights. The road work
had a
>>> >>>> layover at the away from home point. It was almost like a
second
>>> >home
>>> >>>> for him.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Did he have a second wife?
>>> >>>;)
>>> >>
>>> >>Only after he divorced his 1st wife.
>>> >>
>>> >Ouch.
>>>
>>> I ran across a stat for operating crew marriage expectancy. They
>>> usually last less than 10 years. We have one guy that's working on
>>> his 7th marriage most are on their third... I'm still working on my
>>> 1st. The rate was 1:35 marriages last until retirement. 50% of new
>>> marriage failing the 1st two years.
>>>
>>Possible solution: mormonism. Have a wife at each endpoint.
>>Problem *solved*.
>>
>>> I don't know if Flight Crews have the same problems?
>>>
>>Thats what the stewardesses ar for.
>
>I wouldn't say that out loud, especially if I was going to fly in the
>foreseeable future.
>
I'm betting theres a watch lits with my name already...

>>> The stats might change now that the railroads started hiring and
>>> training new employees. Most of the new hires are ex-military and
>>> don't stay more than a year or so and most are divorced already.
>>>
>>Hopefully they wont be ptsd and have flashbacks.
>>:(
>
>Hopefully...
>
>Just increase I have prepared a few signs with arrows. Directing
>people to the management office's (invoking Garvin's Rule allow
>management to take the all blame, all the time)
>
HR needs to keep busy.


>>> Most new hires are still pumped up and brain washed. They do not
make
>>> good employees.
>>>
>>Brain washed by what?
>
>Military. Follow all instructions, without question.
>
Oh that. How many still act like that after they quit service?

>>> >>>> >> Today the railroad has cut
>>> >>>> >>its pay for new hires to 30%. Wages have effectively dropped
>>> >since
>>> >>>> >>1985 to about 65% of what they were compared to pre-1985.
The
>>> >>>> >>employees with seniority (like me) have made up for this by
just
>>> >>>> >>working trips. I now work 25 days a month compared to the
18-19
>>> >days
>>> >>>> >>I worked before 1985. The cry was a demand for more
productivity.
>>> >the
>>> >>>> >>Grace commission of Ronnie agreed. The funny thing is while
>>> >>>> >>productivity went up wages decreased. The number of working
>>> >employees
>>> >>>> >>decreased and got the average age increased. this increased
the
>>> >>>> >>health care costs and over the next 4 contracts the carriers
>>> >cried
>>> >>>> >>about the increases to health care cost. (the fact the
employees
>>> >>>> >>health care increases because of increase of work stress
also was
>>> >>>> >>ignored.)
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >I ****ing hated Reagan.
>>> >>>> >His passing made me smile :)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> The only thing was he never felt the pain he caused. The idiot
>>> >would
>>> >>>> cut firewood for fun. did he realize his actions created a
group of
>>> >>>> people that were cutting firewood just to feed their families.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>He lived in a lovely 1950's family show that played in his head.
>>> >>>The world to him was just one big Leave It to Beaver episode.
>>> >>
>>> >>or Father Knows Best. I think he felt himself more like Ozzie
Nelson.
>>> >>If you watch the way he spoke, it was much of the same phrase
tempo.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >Some of the nicest people are really assholes.
>>> >
>>> >^_^
>>>
>>> I've heard that. But then I don't thing they are that nice to start
>>> with. How can you tell what an actor's real character is like.
>>>
>>Take away his script?
>
>Some can act impromptu, ad lib and improvise.
>
Ronny slept a lot. When he was awake it was 1950...all over again.
Mainly because alzheimers victims cant rmember anything in the *recent*
past so they go back to what they know & rememebr.

>>> >>>> >>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st
and
>>> >2nd
>>> >>>> >>>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in the
cab.
>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>>Ever seen a track weasel?
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>>I seen just about everything. including the look on a kids
face
>>> >just
>>> >>>> >>>>after he finally looked up and saw the locomotive, just
before
>>> >it
>>> >>>> >hit
>>> >>>> >>>>him.
>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >>>Ugh. Musta been a deaf kid.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>Nope, listening to his ipod at full volume.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >Holy shnikeies!!!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I just said "****!"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Sad.
>>> >>
>>> >>It was.
>>> >>
>>> >>>> >>When the conductor and brakemen went back to look, then
found his
>>> >>>> >>Ipod laying near the impact sight, still playing at full
volume.
>>> >>>> >>He was listening to some sort of Rap.
>>> >>>> >>
>>> >>>> >ZOMGZ! I *knew* it! "Rap kills".
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> That's a valid assumption.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> It wasn't the train that killed him, it was the Rap!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>Ipods are dangerous and should be banned.
>>> >>><nods>
>>> >>
>>> >>Well, I use an mp3 player to feed my music selections into the
Car or
>>> >>Boats music player. I have an 80 gb device. It also works as a
spare
>>> >>back-up. stores my Navigation Maps/RIS files.
>>> >>
>>> >>Counseled use.
>>> >>
>>> >>User beware doing *this* could result in *bad* things.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >Ban in-car video screens in the front seat area.
>>> >OOPS! There goes the OnStar screen in moms caddy.
>>> >:(
>>>
>>> and those GPS units.
>>>
>>Only if they are voice operated or heads-up on the windsheild
projection
>>type. Heads up displays like in fighter aircraft should have made it
to
>>cars by now....really.
>
>Really. Stuff life speedo should have been there already.
>
I think theres a heads up display in a bmw or something...

--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
___ ___ ___ ___
/\__\ /\ \ /\ \ /\ \
/:/ _/_ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\ \
/:/ /::\ \ _____\:\ \ ___ \:\ \ ___ /::\ \
/:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ \ \:\__\ /\ /:/\:\__\
\:\/:/ /:/ / \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ \ /:/ / \:\/:/ \/__/
\::/ /:/ / \:\ \ \:\ /:/ / \::/__/
\/_/:/ / \:\ \ \:\/:/ / \:\ \
/:/ / \:\__\ \::/ / \:\__\

[Bertie the Bunyip[_28_]]

§ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:KKSdnSVXEOL-
:

> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
> >:
>
>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
et:
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a steaming pile
>>> >:
>>>
>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
:
>>>>
>>>>> In message >, Bertie
> the
>>>>> Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f > wrote in news:l_WdnfjqXdGNd-
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>>>>>> > >:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:00:35 +0000 (UTC), in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>> >>Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>>>>> et:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out a
> steaming
>>>>>> >>>> pile >:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> In message >,
> Bob
>>>>>> > Officer
>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:31:50 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>> > §ñühw¤£f
>>>>>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >Bob Officer > pinched out a
> steaming
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >pile >:
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:29 -0600, in
> alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>> > §ñühw¤£f
>>>>>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>Bob Officer > pinched out a
>>> steaming
>>>>>> > pile
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >:
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC), in
>>>>>> > alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >Bertie
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>the Bunyip > wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>§ñühw¤£f > wrote in
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>news:t96dnQfJw-
> :
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip > pinched out
> a
>>>>>> >>>> steaming
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >pile
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >:
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>news:gkvte8$eth$1 @news.motzarella.org:
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> §ñühw¤£f wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I propose a technological solution to the
> problem
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>> > bird
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>strikes:
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> turboprops.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lets return to the good old days pre-jet
> engines.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well ... while the L-188 Lockheed Electra
> example
>>> is
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >turboprop,
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> above poster apparently didn't realize that a
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> turboprop engine
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>has a
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Discuss.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The large piston engines were incredibly
> complex,
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and generally
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> could
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> drive airliners at only about half the speed of
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> those
>>>>>> > with
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>pure
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> jet
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> engines.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>yes, but they were so much more fun
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Bertie
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Ok ok...totally *genius* idea: dirigibles.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Excellent. I'll sign on for a course.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, think on that for a while.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Its either that or the locomotive, chaps.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>Only if it's a real one. i.e. Steam
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>No! Hell no!
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>And what pray tell is wrong with steam?
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>Steam locomotives? Everything.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> >Well man spit it out! Lets not play guessing games here!
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have you ever been on a working steam locomotive?
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Not while its running.
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> They are very dirty (producing soot and ash. Very noisy.
>>>>>> > (usually
>>>>>> >>>>>>> about 90-105 dB. They get louder under full power)
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Yeap. Coal fired mostly.
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the steam era were
> deaf.
>>>>>> >>>>>>> and suffered breathing problems.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> My granpa was one :)
>>>>>> >>>>>> Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know who
>>> the
>>>>>> > ****
>>>>>> >>>> I
>>>>>> >>>>>> was later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era still
>>>>>> >>>>>>> suffer hearing loss. Most all operating employees for
>>>>>> >>>>>>> railroads with
>>>>>> > more
>>>>>> >>>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss. About
> ten
>>>>>> >>>>>>> years
>>>>>> >>>> ago
>>>>>> >>>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing losses
>>> and
>>>>>> >>>> started
>>>>>> >>>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27 years
> too
>>>>>> > late.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt
> ****
>>> &
>>>>>> > moan
>>>>>> >>>>>> about the conditions.
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those 1st
> and
>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2nd generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in
> the
>>>>>> >>>>>>> cab.
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> Ever seen a track weasel?
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>Mm, no. I seem to remeber hearing the term, though. What is
>>> it?
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> back in the olden days the trains toilet dumped straight
> onto
>>>>>> >>>> the tracks...the TP that persisted was called a "track
>>> weasel".
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>OK never heard of that. ANd now it's lodged in my head
> forever.
>>>>>> >>>When will I learn?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>Would the same thing happen if the blue ice sublimated leaving
>>> only
>>>>>> >>the residue floating in the air?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> > Didnt airlines used to just dump straight out the plane?
>>>>>> > IIRC people & things were getting hit with GIANT ICEY TURD-
> CUBES.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > <shudder>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, yes and no. There was a vent that sometimes woudl develop
> an
>>>>>> icicle, but it wasn't supposed to do that!
>>>>>>
>>>>> MOMMY MOMMY I FOUND A COMET!!!111!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Do aliens use tampons???
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What didyou think comets were? Surely the big string trailing behind
>>>>gave you a clue?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Its cosmic poop...
>>>
>>> 0_0
>>>
>>Or, a new Okie delicacy.
>>
>>
> WITH A SIDE OF KUDZU!!!!!1111!!!!!
>

And tar,


Bertie

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 4:41*pm, Bear Bottoms > wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:21:13 -0600, §ñühw¤£f wrote:
> > * * * * ___ * * * * * ___ * * * * * ___ * * * * * ___
> > * * * * */\__\ * * * * /\ *\ * * * * /\ *\ * * * * /\ *\
> > * * * * /:/ _/_ * * * *\:\ *\ * * * *\:\ *\ * * * *\:\ *\
> > * * * */:/ /\ *\ * * * *\:\ *\ * * * *\:\ *\ * * * *\:\ *\
> > * * * /:/ /::\ *\ * _____\:\ *\ * ___ *\:\ *\ * ___ /::\ *\
> > * * */:/_/:/\:\__\ /::::::::\__\ /\ *\ *\:\__\ /\ */:/\:\__\
> > * * *\:\/:/ /:/ */ \:\~~\~~\/__/ \:\ *\ /:/ */ \:\/:/ *\/__/
> > * * * \::/ /:/ */ * \:\ *\ * * * *\:\ */:/ */ * \::/__/
> > * * * *\/_/:/ */ * * \:\ *\ * * * *\:\/:/ */ * * \:\ *\
> > * * * * */:/ */ * * * \:\__\ * * * *\::/ */ * * * \:\__\
>
> What is this ****?
> --
> Bear Bottoms
> Private Attorney General

They don't let them have matches or toothpicks in the Institution so
this provides an outlet for the OCD impaired.

[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:01:20 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>
>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>[....]

>>>>> >>>> It would generally take a person 5-7 years before they could
>>work
>>>>> >>>> year round. 10-12 before they could work regular jobs on a
>>temporay
>>>>> >>>> basis. and 20 plus to hold any sort of regular job on a year
>>round
>>>>> >>>> basis.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Railroad reschedual work on a need be basis (within the
scope
>>of
>>>>> >the
>>>>> >>>> union contracts) so their is a big degree of non-control.
They
>>are
>>>>> >>>> subject tot he demands and needs of the shippers.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>Floriduh just gave CSX a big huge contract.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>good
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >bad for the everglades or something, iirc.
>>>>> >or it takes from the general fund and the poor need the money
>>more.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt know
>>who the
>>>>> >****
>>>>> >>>> >I
>>>>> >>>> >>>was
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> >>>>My dad died from lung cancer (both Small Cell Carcinoma
>>and
>>>>> >>>> >>>>Metastasized melanoma.
>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> >>>Bummer...the smoke was it?
>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> >>Asbestos and/or smoke.
>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> >Me-so-thee-lee-oh-ma.
>>>>> >>>> ><nods>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> You got it.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>Well I hope not :)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>I hope so too. ugly way to go.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >Libby Montana knows a thing or two about aSSbest0s...
>>>>> >**** WR Grace to hell.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era
still
>>>>> >suffer
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for
>>railroads
>>>>> >with
>>>>> >>>> >more
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss.
About
>>ten
>>>>> >years
>>>>> >>>> >>>ago
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing
>>losses
>>>>> >and
>>>>> >>>> >>>started
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27
years
>>too
>>>>> >late.
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you didnt
>>**** &
>>>>> >moan
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>about the conditions.
>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> >>>>The ****ed and moaned even then. I've listen to those
guys
>>all
>>>>> >my
>>>>> >>>> >>>>life.
>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> >>>no...they laughed at management...but as for crying about
>>the
>>>>> >>>> >>>conditions?
>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> >>Yep the ****ed and moaned about that too.
>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> >Well yer fambly wasn't "stoic" then.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> all to often the conditions were what you could make them.
the
>>>>> >>>> trouble is most of the people were content to work in
>>substandard
>>>>> >>>> conditions.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>After the union busting in Bisbee Arizona in 1910 or
>>>>> >so...sure...beats getting
>>>>> >>>put on box cars, taken into the desert, and shot by thugs.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>So much for freedom taken for granted, isn't it.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >Union busting was a violent and oft forgotten part of american
>>history.
>>>>> >Trying to organise could get you killed, back in the day.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>> >>>No real railroader would complain "its too tough".
>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> >>Being gone most of the time? Missing their families? If it
>>wasn't
>>>>> >for
>>>>> >>>> >>the "good money", they would have left.
>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>> >>>> >My grandpa was lucky then. He worked one line and was home
>>often
>>>>> >>>> >enough...GNRY.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> Dad was gone from home about 60% of the nights. The road
work
>>had a
>>>>> >>>> layover at the away from home point. It was almost like a
>>second
>>>>> >home
>>>>> >>>> for him.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>Did he have a second wife?
>>>>> >>>;)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Only after he divorced his 1st wife.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >Ouch.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ran across a stat for operating crew marriage expectancy. They
>>>>> usually last less than 10 years. We have one guy that's working
on
>>>>> his 7th marriage most are on their third... I'm still working on
my
>>>>> 1st. The rate was 1:35 marriages last until retirement. 50% of
new
>>>>> marriage failing the 1st two years.
>>>>>
>>>>Possible solution: mormonism. Have a wife at each endpoint.
>>>>Problem *solved*.
>>>>
>>>>> I don't know if Flight Crews have the same problems?
>>>>>
>>>>Thats what the stewardesses ar for.
>>>
>>>I wouldn't say that out loud, especially if I was going to fly in
the
>>>foreseeable future.
>>>
>>I'm betting theres a watch lits with my name already...
>
>Keep a low profile... :-)
>
Sure, I'm totally hiding out on usenet.

G00gle "atrios" radio, you might like it :)

>>>>> The stats might change now that the railroads started hiring and
>>>>> training new employees. Most of the new hires are ex-military and
>>>>> don't stay more than a year or so and most are divorced already.
>>>>>
>>>>Hopefully they wont be ptsd and have flashbacks.
>>>>:(
>>>
>>>Hopefully...
>>>
>>>Just increase I have prepared a few signs with arrows. Directing
>>>people to the management office's (invoking Garvin's Rule allow
>>>management to take the all blame, all the time)
>>>
>>HR needs to keep busy.
>
>That reminds me of a joke I once was told...
>
Nice cliffhanger.

>>>>> Most new hires are still pumped up and brain washed. They do not
>>make
>>>>> good employees.
>>>>>
>>>>Brain washed by what?
>>>
>>>Military. Follow all instructions, without question.
>>>
>>Oh that. How many still act like that after they quit service?
>
>Some do, it takes ages for them to start to think again. Some never
>really escape.
>
They wind up living under bridges since the VA dosent give a ****.

>>>>> >>>> >> Today the railroad has cut
>>>>> >>>> >>its pay for new hires to 30%. Wages have effectively
dropped
>>>>> >since
>>>>> >>>> >>1985 to about 65% of what they were compared to pre-1985.
>>The
>>>>> >>>> >>employees with seniority (like me) have made up for this
by
>>just
>>>>> >>>> >>working trips. I now work 25 days a month compared to the
>>18-19
>>>>> >days
>>>>> >>>> >>I worked before 1985. The cry was a demand for more
>>productivity.
>>>>> >the
>>>>> >>>> >>Grace commission of Ronnie agreed. The funny thing is
while
>>>>> >>>> >>productivity went up wages decreased. The number of
working
>>>>> >employees
>>>>> >>>> >>decreased and got the average age increased. this
increased
>>the
>>>>> >>>> >>health care costs and over the next 4 contracts the
carriers
>>>>> >cried
>>>>> >>>> >>about the increases to health care cost. (the fact the
>>employees
>>>>> >>>> >>health care increases because of increase of work stress
>>also was
>>>>> >>>> >>ignored.)
>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> >I ****ing hated Reagan.
>>>>> >>>> >His passing made me smile :)
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> The only thing was he never felt the pain he caused. The
idiot
>>>>> >would
>>>>> >>>> cut firewood for fun. did he realize his actions created a
>>group of
>>>>> >>>> people that were cutting firewood just to feed their
families.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>He lived in a lovely 1950's family show that played in his
head.
>>>>> >>>The world to him was just one big Leave It to Beaver episode.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>or Father Knows Best. I think he felt himself more like Ozzie
>>Nelson.
>>>>> >>If you watch the way he spoke, it was much of the same phrase
>>tempo.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Some of the nicest people are really assholes.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >^_^
>>>>>
>>>>> I've heard that. But then I don't thing they are that nice to
start
>>>>> with. How can you tell what an actor's real character is like.
>>>>>
>>>>Take away his script?
>>>
>>>Some can act impromptu, ad lib and improvise.
>>>
>>Ronny slept a lot. When he was awake it was 1950...all over again.
>>Mainly because alzheimers victims cant rmember anything in the
*recent*
>>past so they go back to what they know & rememebr.
>
>Father knows best, leave it to beaver, and ozzie and harriet (they
>were on radio before TV). all considered mainstream "family shows"
>Dad's worked in office's and mothers keep house. It wasn't ever a
>depiction of Standard American Life.
>
It was a depicton of an *ideal*, not a 100% reality.


>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those
1st
>>and
>>>>> >2nd
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in
the
>>cab.
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> >>>>>Ever seen a track weasel?
>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> >>>>I seen just about everything. including the look on a
kids
>>face
>>>>> >just
>>>>> >>>> >>>>after he finally looked up and saw the locomotive, just
>>before
>>>>> >it
>>>>> >>>> >hit
>>>>> >>>> >>>>him.
>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> >>>Ugh. Musta been a deaf kid.
>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> >>Nope, listening to his ipod at full volume.
>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> >Holy shnikeies!!!
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> I just said "****!"
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>Sad.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>It was.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> >>When the conductor and brakemen went back to look, then
>>found his
>>>>> >>>> >>Ipod laying near the impact sight, still playing at full
>>volume.
>>>>> >>>> >>He was listening to some sort of Rap.
>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>> >>>> >ZOMGZ! I *knew* it! "Rap kills".
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> That's a valid assumption.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> It wasn't the train that killed him, it was the Rap!
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>Ipods are dangerous and should be banned.
>>>>> >>><nods>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Well, I use an mp3 player to feed my music selections into the
>>Car or
>>>>> >>Boats music player. I have an 80 gb device. It also works as a
>>spare
>>>>> >>back-up. stores my Navigation Maps/RIS files.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Counseled use.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>User beware doing *this* could result in *bad* things.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >Ban in-car video screens in the front seat area.
>>>>> >OOPS! There goes the OnStar screen in moms caddy.
>>>>> >:(
>>>>>
>>>>> and those GPS units.
>>>>>
>>>>Only if they are voice operated or heads-up on the windsheild
>>projection
>>>>type. Heads up displays like in fighter aircraft should have made
it
>>to
>>>>cars by now....really.
>>>
>>>Really. Stuff life speedo should have been there already.
>>>
>>I think theres a heads up display in a bmw or something...
>
>cars for people that think their car shows their status...
>
It should be a standard item.

--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
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[§ñühw¤£f[_2_]]

Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:

>On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:33:52 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>
>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>
>>>On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:01:20 -0600, in alt.usenet.kooks, §ñühw¤£f
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bob Officer > pinched out a steaming pile
>:
>>>>[....]
>>
>>>>>>> >>>> It would generally take a person 5-7 years before they
could
>>>>work
>>>>>>> >>>> year round. 10-12 before they could work regular jobs on a
>>>>temporay
>>>>>>> >>>> basis. and 20 plus to hold any sort of regular job on a
year
>>>>round
>>>>>>> >>>> basis.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Railroad reschedual work on a need be basis (within the
>>scope
>>>>of
>>>>>>> >the
>>>>>>> >>>> union contracts) so their is a big degree of non-control.
>>They
>>>>are
>>>>>>> >>>> subject tot he demands and needs of the shippers.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>Floriduh just gave CSX a big huge contract.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>good
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >bad for the everglades or something, iirc.
>>>>>>> >or it takes from the general fund and the poor need the money
>>>>more.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>Deaf as hell but no breathing problems...he didnt
know
>>>>who the
>>>>>>> >****
>>>>>>> >>>> >I
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>was
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>later since he was all alzheimersy & stuff.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>My dad died from lung cancer (both Small Cell
Carcinoma
>>>>and
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>Metastasized melanoma.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>Bummer...the smoke was it?
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>Asbestos and/or smoke.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >Me-so-thee-lee-oh-ma.
>>>>>>> >>>> ><nods>
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> You got it.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>Well I hope not :)
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>I hope so too. ugly way to go.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >Libby Montana knows a thing or two about aSSbest0s...
>>>>>>> >**** WR Grace to hell.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Most all locomotive engineers from the diesel era
>>still
>>>>>>> >suffer
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> hearing loss. Most all operating employees for
>>>>railroads
>>>>>>> >with
>>>>>>> >>>> >more
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> than 10 years of service have some hearing loss.
>>About
>>>>ten
>>>>>>> >years
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>ago
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> the railroads started losing lawsuits over hearing
>>>>losses
>>>>>>> >and
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>started
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> a hearing conservation program. Too bad it was 27
>>years
>>>>too
>>>>>>> >late.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>YEah...back in the day it was a macho job and you
didnt
>>>>**** &
>>>>>>> >moan
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>about the conditions.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>The ****ed and moaned even then. I've listen to those
>>guys
>>>>all
>>>>>>> >my
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>life.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>no...they laughed at management...but as for crying
about
>>>>the
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>conditions?
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>Yep the ****ed and moaned about that too.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >Well yer fambly wasn't "stoic" then.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> all to often the conditions were what you could make them.
>>the
>>>>>>> >>>> trouble is most of the people were content to work in
>>>>substandard
>>>>>>> >>>> conditions.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>After the union busting in Bisbee Arizona in 1910 or
>>>>>>> >so...sure...beats getting
>>>>>>> >>>put on box cars, taken into the desert, and shot by thugs.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>So much for freedom taken for granted, isn't it.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >Union busting was a violent and oft forgotten part of american
>>>>history.
>>>>>>> >Trying to organise could get you killed, back in the day.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>No real railroader would complain "its too tough".
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>Being gone most of the time? Missing their families? If
it
>>>>wasn't
>>>>>>> >for
>>>>>>> >>>> >>the "good money", they would have left.
>>>>>>> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >>>> >My grandpa was lucky then. He worked one line and was
home
>>>>often
>>>>>>> >>>> >enough...GNRY.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Dad was gone from home about 60% of the nights. The road
>>work
>>>>had a
>>>>>>> >>>> layover at the away from home point. It was almost like a
>>>>second
>>>>>>> >home
>>>>>>> >>>> for him.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>Did he have a second wife?
>>>>>>> >>>;)
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>Only after he divorced his 1st wife.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >Ouch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I ran across a stat for operating crew marriage expectancy.
They
>>>>>>> usually last less than 10 years. We have one guy that's working
>>on
>>>>>>> his 7th marriage most are on their third... I'm still working
on
>>my
>>>>>>> 1st. The rate was 1:35 marriages last until retirement. 50% of
>>new
>>>>>>> marriage failing the 1st two years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Possible solution: mormonism. Have a wife at each endpoint.
>>>>>>Problem *solved*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know if Flight Crews have the same problems?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thats what the stewardesses ar for.
>>>>>
>>>>>I wouldn't say that out loud, especially if I was going to fly in
>>the
>>>>>foreseeable future.
>>>>>
>>>>I'm betting theres a watch lits with my name already...
>>>
>>>Keep a low profile... :-)
>>>
>>Sure, I'm totally hiding out on usenet.
>>
>>G00gle "atrios" radio, you might like it :)
>
>I will, right now we are getting ready to sail back to Kehi. :(
>It will only be a few hours sail. but it will take most of the day to
>pack and clean the boat for long term non-use.
>
Scrape off the zebra mussels...

>I have to fly back to reality Thursday.
>
What time zone is that in?

>>>>>>> The stats might change now that the railroads started hiring
and
>>>>>>> training new employees. Most of the new hires are ex-military
and
>>>>>>> don't stay more than a year or so and most are divorced
already.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hopefully they wont be ptsd and have flashbacks.
>>>>>>:(
>>>>>
>>>>>Hopefully...
>>>>>
>>>>>Just increase I have prepared a few signs with arrows. Directing
>>>>>people to the management office's (invoking Garvin's Rule allow
>>>>>management to take the all blame, all the time)
>>>>>
>>>>HR needs to keep busy.
>>>
>>>That reminds me of a joke I once was told...
>>>
>>Nice cliffhanger.
>
>IT is... Isn't it. :)
>
you *******.

>>>>>>> Most new hires are still pumped up and brain washed. They do
not
>>>>make
>>>>>>> good employees.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Brain washed by what?
>>>>>
>>>>>Military. Follow all instructions, without question.
>>>>>
>>>>Oh that. How many still act like that after they quit service?
>>>
>>>Some do, it takes ages for them to start to think again. Some never
>>>really escape.
>>>
>>They wind up living under bridges since the VA dosent give a ****.
>
>Or just commit suicide by cop.
>PTSD takes so many of them.
>
And alcohol/drug abuse the rest.

>After WW2, one of my dad's best friends ended up being killed during
>one of those flashbacks. Another became so bad an alky, he couldn't
>function. At his funerals, I got to read some of the commendations he
>got and the events for which he earned his medals. There were nine
>other people at his funeral... sad. He died at home alone and drunk.
>He drank himself to death.
>
The cost of war...

>>>>>>> >>>> >> Today the railroad has cut
>>>>>>> >>>> >>its pay for new hires to 30%. Wages have effectively
>>dropped
>>>>>>> >since
>>>>>>> >>>> >>1985 to about 65% of what they were compared to pre-
1985.
>>>>The
>>>>>>> >>>> >>employees with seniority (like me) have made up for this
>>by
>>>>just
>>>>>>> >>>> >>working trips. I now work 25 days a month compared to
the
>>>>18-19
>>>>>>> >days
>>>>>>> >>>> >>I worked before 1985. The cry was a demand for more
>>>>productivity.
>>>>>>> >the
>>>>>>> >>>> >>Grace commission of Ronnie agreed. The funny thing is
>>while
>>>>>>> >>>> >>productivity went up wages decreased. The number of
>>working
>>>>>>> >employees
>>>>>>> >>>> >>decreased and got the average age increased. this
>>increased
>>>>the
>>>>>>> >>>> >>health care costs and over the next 4 contracts the
>>carriers
>>>>>>> >cried
>>>>>>> >>>> >>about the increases to health care cost. (the fact the
>>>>employees
>>>>>>> >>>> >>health care increases because of increase of work stress
>>>>also was
>>>>>>> >>>> >>ignored.)
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >I ****ing hated Reagan.
>>>>>>> >>>> >His passing made me smile :)
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> The only thing was he never felt the pain he caused. The
>>idiot
>>>>>>> >would
>>>>>>> >>>> cut firewood for fun. did he realize his actions created a
>>>>group of
>>>>>>> >>>> people that were cutting firewood just to feed their
>>families.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>He lived in a lovely 1950's family show that played in his
>>head.
>>>>>>> >>>The world to him was just one big Leave It to Beaver
episode.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>or Father Knows Best. I think he felt himself more like Ozzie
>>>>Nelson.
>>>>>>> >>If you watch the way he spoke, it was much of the same phrase
>>>>tempo.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Some of the nicest people are really assholes.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >^_^
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've heard that. But then I don't thing they are that nice to
>>start
>>>>>>> with. How can you tell what an actor's real character is like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Take away his script?
>>>>>
>>>>>Some can act impromptu, ad lib and improvise.
>>>>>
>>>>Ronny slept a lot. When he was awake it was 1950...all over again.
>>>>Mainly because alzheimers victims cant rmember anything in the
>>*recent*
>>>>past so they go back to what they know & rememebr.
>>>
>>>Father knows best, leave it to beaver, and ozzie and harriet (they
>>>were on radio before TV). all considered mainstream "family shows"
>>>Dad's worked in office's and mothers keep house. It wasn't ever a
>>>depiction of Standard American Life.
>>>
>>It was a depicton of an *ideal*, not a 100% reality.
>
>What part of it was ideal? Dad's that went tired after a day of work?
>Mothers that cooked every meal and wore dresses, pearls and high
>heals to clean the house?
>
Home ownership, the company man, a chicken in every pot and a *dodge*
in the garage...compared to single parent families where theres a good
chance the food stamps are necessary, I'd say the recovery period post
WW2 was pretty prosperous...for more americans than now.

>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Biggest complaints from crews which still use those
>>1st
>>>>and
>>>>>>> >2nd
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> generation locomotives, noise and exhaust fumes in
>>the
>>>>cab.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>Ever seen a track weasel?
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>I seen just about everything. including the look on a
>>kids
>>>>face
>>>>>>> >just
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>after he finally looked up and saw the locomotive,
just
>>>>before
>>>>>>> >it
>>>>>>> >>>> >hit
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>him.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>>Ugh. Musta been a deaf kid.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>Nope, listening to his ipod at full volume.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >Holy shnikeies!!!
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> I just said "****!"
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>Sad.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>It was.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >>When the conductor and brakemen went back to look, then
>>>>found his
>>>>>>> >>>> >>Ipod laying near the impact sight, still playing at full
>>>>volume.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>He was listening to some sort of Rap.
>>>>>>> >>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>> >ZOMGZ! I *knew* it! "Rap kills".
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> That's a valid assumption.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> It wasn't the train that killed him, it was the Rap!
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>Ipods are dangerous and should be banned.
>>>>>>> >>><nods>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>Well, I use an mp3 player to feed my music selections into
the
>>>>Car or
>>>>>>> >>Boats music player. I have an 80 gb device. It also works as
a
>>>>spare
>>>>>>> >>back-up. stores my Navigation Maps/RIS files.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>Counseled use.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>User beware doing *this* could result in *bad* things.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >Ban in-car video screens in the front seat area.
>>>>>>> >OOPS! There goes the OnStar screen in moms caddy.
>>>>>>> >:(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and those GPS units.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Only if they are voice operated or heads-up on the windsheild
>>>>projection
>>>>>>type. Heads up displays like in fighter aircraft should have made
>>it
>>>>to
>>>>>>cars by now....really.
>>>>>
>>>>>Really. Stuff life speedo should have been there already.
>>>>>
>>>>I think theres a heads up display in a bmw or something...
>>>
>>>cars for people that think their car shows their status...
>>>
>>It should be a standard item.
>
>The standard should have been something developed years ago. in the
>60's the Barrett Burried Guidance System was developed as a concept.
>The implementation has been doable for years. Not to implement it
>now, is just silly. This could control traffic, and actually stop
>people from exceeding the safe speed for any corridor.
>
>
Volvo has a new crash avoidance system that looks pretty impressive...


--
http://www.bds-palestine.net/?q=node/9
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