Drop a day option for US regionals

[[email protected]]

Pilots all:

The US rules have for several years had the option of "drop your worst
day" scoring. So far noone has used it, but I for one would like to
give it a try.

Most of all, I think pilots will like it a lot. Yes, in the end
somebody has to win, but that horrible feeling of “now I’m screwed I
might as well go home” after a landout or a bad day will vanish,
making the contest a lot more fun.

I think it can help safety. I think pilots would more quickly give up
on awful days, choosing to take their “drop day” rather than press on
causing the usual landout damage we see on weak days. I think it
would also help pilots to make that hard decision to abandon the task
in thunderstorms or clearly dangerous weather.

There is a bit of a counterargument. Perhpas pilots will strike out
and fly more aggressively knowing they can drop a landout. This might
get worse on the last day, and pilots might feel the need to do more
math and strategizing. I don't think this is true, but that's why we
need to try it in regionals.

I also our team selection also puts too much emphasis on avoiding one
bad day, and thus too much emphasis on flying lots of contests in lots
of different classes. Moving this to nationals and team selection will
take years of course, but if everyone thinks it's great that could
happen eventually.

The rule is rather carefully crafted. If you just “drop your worst
score” you might end up dropping the day you won, if it was devalued
to 500 points. Instead you “get the winner’s score” on whichever day
that helps you the most. And it phases in, as it should for short
contests. The actual text is below.

I'm talking to one CD about trying this at a regional this year, and
will talk to more as the schedule gets finalized. Certainly, a
groundswell from pilots of "hey, could we try the drop a day (or more
accurately, worst day adjustement) at this contest?" would give us
more chances to try it. So, I'm posting this in the hope that lots of
pilots will talk to the CDs of contests they plan to go to and
encourage them to give it a try, or that CDs will see the post
directly and get the bug. In all fairness, the decision to use this
should be made early and well publicized.

John Cochrane
BB



11.4.4 † Worst Day Score Adjustment
If this is declared to be in effect, an adjustment is calculated and
added to the cumulative score of
each entrant.
11.4.4.1 † Worst Day Score Differential
For each entrant, WDSD is the greatest difference on any contest day
between the entrant's score
(before application of a Contest penalty) and the highest score
achieved by any regular entrant in
the class on that day.
11.4.4.2 † A Worst Day Score Adjustment is added to each entrant's
cumulative score, as follows:
After one official day: WDSA = zero
After 2 official days: WDSA = 0.25 * WDSD
After 3 official days: WDSA = 0.5 * WDSD
After 4 official days: WDSA = 0.75 * WDSD
After 5 or more official days: WDSA = WDSD

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 21, 7:52*am, wrote:
> Pilots all:
>
> The US rules have for several years had the option of "drop your worst
> day" scoring. So far noone has used it, but I for one would like to
> give it a try.


This is an interesting concept. In our club contest series we have,
for many years, scored best half days plus one. So in a series with
10 contest days everyone is scored on their best 6 days. The idea of
dropping bad days has been popular.

This rule seems a bit harder to get to grips with, and I'm wonder what
the surprise scenarios are.

For example what if a few pilots close to the bottom of the cumulative
score sheet get home one day and every one else lands out. It seems
that could make this day everyone elses drop day but perhaps a
different drop day would be more favorable in terms of closing a gap
on the cumulative winner.

Do you have any examples of past contests that are scored with and
without this rule? If so, do they always show that the automatically
selected drop is the most favorable for each pilot?

Andy

[[email protected]]

> Do you have any examples of past contests that are scored with and
> without this rule? *If so, do they always show that the automatically
> selected drop is the most favorable for each pilot?

By definition, yes, the automatically selected drop is the one that
raises your score the most. I haven't rescored any old contests --
that would be fun and I'd be interested in seeing the results. But of
course that won't answer the question, how will people's tactics and
enjoyment of the contest differ if we try the new rule.

John

[Tuno]

I like this rule and I hope the CD uses it at R9 Parowan this year. I
doubt it will have any impact on final results (all pilots will
benefit), but I do believe it will have some impact on the decision
making process (read: safety).

2NO

[PMSC Member]

I'm not so sure about this.

It takes us one more step away from the way the rest of the world runs
competitions. Is this a good idea, given that one of the principal
purposes of the national contest hierarchy is to prepare pilots for
the US Team?

Alternatively, we could adopt the international rules, which don't
penalize bad days quite as severely (the WGC01 winner in Standard
Class landed out on Day 4).

[[email protected]]

Hang the ******* and anyone who utters this crap. All of you who want
this should start your own organization and hold hands as you start.
Perhaps we should have a 7th class, the crying class. This is a tough
sport and it's the tough that makes it great. It is how the Great claw
above us all. I want to see the Great , even if it takes them years to
get there.
It must be frozen solid in Chicago, for the blood hath stop flowing
above the neck.
R

[[email protected]]

On Jan 21, 1:55*pm, " > wrote:
> Hang the ******* and anyone who utters this crap. All of you who want
> this should start your own organization and hold hands as you start.
> Perhaps we should have a 7th class, the crying class. This is a tough
> sport and it's the tough that makes it great. It is how the Great claw
> above us all. I want to see the Great , even if it takes them years to
> get there.
> It must be frozen solid in Chicago, for the blood hath stop flowing
> above the neck.
> R

Henry
Stop holding back and say what you think.
Hold it in long enough, you will explode.
UH

[[email protected]]

On Jan 21, 9:52*am, wrote:
> Pilots all:
>
> The US rules have for several years had the option of "drop your worst
> day" scoring. So far noone has used it, but I for one would like to
> give it a try.
>
> Most of all, I think pilots will like it a lot. Yes, in the end
> somebody has to win, but that horrible feeling of “now I’m screwed I
> might as well go home” after a landout or a bad day will vanish,
> making the contest a lot more fun.
>
> I think it can help safety. I think pilots would more quickly give up
> on awful days, choosing to take their “drop day” rather than press on
> causing the usual landout damage we see on weak days. *I think it
> would also help pilots to make that hard decision to abandon the task
> in thunderstorms or clearly dangerous weather.
>
> There is a bit of a counterargument. Perhpas pilots will strike out
> and fly more aggressively knowing they can drop a landout. This might
> get worse on the last day, and pilots might feel the need to do more
> math and strategizing. I don't think this is true, but that's why we
> need to try it in regionals.
>
> I also our team selection also puts too much emphasis on avoiding one
> bad day, and thus too much emphasis on flying lots of contests in lots
> of different classes. Moving this to nationals and team selection will
> take years of course, but if everyone thinks it's great that could
> happen eventually.
>
> The rule is rather carefully crafted. If you just “drop your worst
> score” you might end up dropping the day you won, if it was devalued
> to 500 points. *Instead you “get the winner’s score” on whichever day
> that helps you the most. And it phases in, as it should for short
> contests. The actual text is below.
>
> I'm talking to one CD about trying this at a regional this year, and
> will talk to more as the schedule gets finalized. *Certainly, a
> groundswell from pilots of "hey, could we try the drop a day (or more
> accurately, worst day adjustement) at this contest?" would give us
> more chances to try it. So, I'm posting this in the hope that lots of
> pilots will talk to the CDs of contests they plan to go to and
> encourage them to give it a try, or that CDs will see the post
> directly and get the bug. *In all fairness, the decision to use this
> should be made early and well publicized.
>
> John Cochrane
> BB
>
> 11.4.4 † Worst Day Score Adjustment
> If this is declared to be in effect, an adjustment is calculated and
> added to the cumulative score of
> each entrant.
> 11.4.4.1 † Worst Day Score Differential
> For each entrant, WDSD is the greatest difference on any contest day
> between the entrant's score
> (before application of a Contest penalty) and the highest score
> achieved by any regular entrant in
> the class on that day.
> 11.4.4.2 † A Worst Day Score Adjustment is added to each entrant's
> cumulative score, as follows:
> After one official day: WDSA = zero
> After 2 official days: WDSA = 0.25 * WDSD
> After 3 official days: WDSA = 0.5 * WDSD
> After 4 official days: WDSA = 0.75 * WDSD
> After 5 or more official days: WDSA = WDSD


Mulligans, anyone?

No, thank you.

-T8

[[email protected]]

I thought I was quite eloquent. A bit Shakespearean with a touch
Southern charm.
R

[Derek Copeland[_2_]]

So what happens if you have two bad days?

Derek C

At 14:52 21 January 2009, wrote:
>Pilots all:
>
>The US rules have for several years had the option of "drop your worst
>day" scoring. So far noone has used it, but I for one would like to
>give it a try.
>
>Most of all, I think pilots will like it a lot. Yes, in the end
>somebody has to win, but that horrible feeling of =93now I=92m screwed I
>might as well go home=94 after a landout or a bad day will vanish,
>making the contest a lot more fun.
>
>I think it can help safety. I think pilots would more quickly give up
>on awful days, choosing to take their =93drop day=94 rather than press
on
>causing the usual landout damage we see on weak days. I think it
>would also help pilots to make that hard decision to abandon the task
>in thunderstorms or clearly dangerous weather.
>
>There is a bit of a counterargument. Perhpas pilots will strike out
>and fly more aggressively knowing they can drop a landout. This might
>get worse on the last day, and pilots might feel the need to do more
>math and strategizing. I don't think this is true, but that's why we
>need to try it in regionals.
>
>I also our team selection also puts too much emphasis on avoiding one
>bad day, and thus too much emphasis on flying lots of contests in lots
>of different classes. Moving this to nationals and team selection will
>take years of course, but if everyone thinks it's great that could
>happen eventually.
>
>The rule is rather carefully crafted. If you just =93drop your worst
>score=94 you might end up dropping the day you won, if it was devalued
>to 500 points. Instead you =93get the winner=92s score=94 on whichever
>day
>that helps you the most. And it phases in, as it should for short
>contests. The actual text is below.
>
>I'm talking to one CD about trying this at a regional this year, and
>will talk to more as the schedule gets finalized. Certainly, a
>groundswell from pilots of "hey, could we try the drop a day (or more
>accurately, worst day adjustement) at this contest?" would give us
>more chances to try it. So, I'm posting this in the hope that lots of
>pilots will talk to the CDs of contests they plan to go to and
>encourage them to give it a try, or that CDs will see the post
>directly and get the bug. In all fairness, the decision to use this
>should be made early and well publicized.
>
>John Cochrane
>BB
>
>
>
>11.4.4 =86 Worst Day Score Adjustment
>If this is declared to be in effect, an adjustment is calculated and
>added to the cumulative score of
>each entrant.
>11.4.4.1 =86 Worst Day Score Differential
>For each entrant, WDSD is the greatest difference on any contest day
>between the entrant's score
>(before application of a Contest penalty) and the highest score
>achieved by any regular entrant in
>the class on that day.
>11.4.4.2 =86 A Worst Day Score Adjustment is added to each entrant's
>cumulative score, as follows:
>After one official day: WDSA =3D zero
>After 2 official days: WDSA =3D 0.25 * WDSD
>After 3 official days: WDSA =3D 0.5 * WDSD
>After 4 official days: WDSA =3D 0.75 * WDSD
>After 5 or more official days: WDSA =3D WDSD
>

[rlovinggood]

Wait a minute John. Did you just say that after a bad day, some
pilots just pack up and go home without finishing the contest? They
must be retired and not have anything better to do. I'm gonna have a
lot of "bad" days, according to the score sheet, but I'll be danged if
I'm gonna quit and go back to the office! Heck, IT'S A VACATION! I
don't have to think about "well, my score sucks and I might as well
quit." Heck no, I don't want to go back to work! It's a contest and
I'm staying till the bloody end (unless the weather forecasts show
you'll never get to the end...)

And I agree with Romeo.


Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

[AK]

For the most part the US rules are excellent but we are slowly
diverging from how the rest of the world flies and that I do not think
is good.

I think people were wise not to try this rule in the past because the
rule amounts to nothing but score manipulation. Some gain some loose
depending on the worst day score. Why don’t we take responsibility for
our actions, including flying in weak conditions? As we do or should
do now.

Let’s talk about other issues.

Most contests on the east coast are “No water” contests, presumably
because of safety or so people say.

Nationals can now declare a “No water” day without all pilots
agreeing. Why don’t we leave these decisions to pilots? If one pilot
in a class wants to fly with water then let him fly with water
provided a tow plane can safely take off with a heavy glider.

In case of “No water” day in a contest a motor glider or a heavy
glider could have a considerable edge especially on a better than
expected day.

Here is another example, imagine Diana 2 (420 lb empty) competing with
ASG-29 15 m (622 lb empty). A no water day was called. Conditions were
better than predicted. The Diana 2 pilot is a big looser at no fault
of his own.

Imagine the same Diana 2 pilot flying in a 15 m class in “No water”
contest.

In my opinion “No water” contests and “No water” days should be
eliminated allowing pilots to adjust wing loading to be competitive
with other heavier gliders.

I brought this up because the more rules we create the more unfair the
sport becomes. It should not be that way. It should be entirely up to
pilot’s performance and not up to rules to decide who is the winner
and who is the looser. We will never be able to create perfect rules.
It is best to avoid creating them unless absolutely necessary.

AK

[[email protected]]

But can we make it retroactive? I have a couple of days I would really
like to drop from 2002.

A8

[[email protected]]

I don't particularly like the drop score idea, it can be annoying when
I have dealt with it in sailboat racing. I do think adopting the
international rules that don't penalize a landout as badly are a good
step.

On a side note, could the rules committe leave the rules alone for a
few years !!! Just let us have 2 to 4 years in a row with the same
rules. This constant experimenting annoys the rats.

Todd Smith
3S

[[email protected]]

I think this is what practice days are for.

Applying this rule isn’t as simple as another sport like sailing. Our
tasking and scoring system varies greatly. At Hobbs for example, you
can be racing along with average speeds near 100 mph. The next day
you’ll be struggling to make it around the course. One person may do
well on the first scenario while another pilot scores well with the
second scenario. If one day is 1000 points and the other is devalued
from landouts how does dropping a day work?

The way I read the rule the "Worst Day Score Differential" is the one
with the greatest difference on any contest day between the entrant's
score and the highest score of a competitor.

11.4.4.1 † Worst Day Score Differential
For each entrant, WDSD is the greatest difference on any contest day
between the entrant's score
(before application of a Contest penalty) and the highest score
achieved by any regular entrant in
the class on that day.

What if someone's worst score difference is on the 1000 point day.
They only get 850 points.

During the same contest there’s a day where no one finishes. There
were at least two national contests that this occurred at in 2008. The
winner gets 400 points. The pilot who was in the lead with a bad day
of 850 points previously scores 350 points. He has to drop 850 points
to keep the 350 points because the difference is 50 vs 150 points?

[[email protected]]

On Jan 22, 11:55*am, wrote:
> I think this is what practice days are for.

That's an excellent point.

On a related note, I think we already post-process the scores too much
-- i.e. through devaluation. The case for day devaluation in my mind
is best made when the winner comes in under minimum time. That's
reasonable. A too short task deserves adjustment. However, it also
happens -- too often -- that the winner gets 700 points solely
because 2/3 of the field got cold feet on a tough day and came home
way early. Why on earth should the losers' scores affect the
winners? Why compress the scores because some participants willingly
abandoned the task? Grumble.

The motivation that led to day devaluation based on the bottom of the
scoresheet has been better answered by changing the proportions of
distance and speed points (which I support).

-T8

[Rick Culbertson]

On Jan 21, 7:52 am, wrote:
> Pilots all:
>
> The US rules have for several years had the option of "drop your worst
> day" scoring. So far noone has used it, but I for one would like to
> give it a try.

I believe Johns point is simply to try it in a Regional, see if it
works! A reasonable statement, I just don't really see the harm and
certainly not something to get one knickers in a twist, we do this for
the challenge, fun and entertainment right?

R-9 Parowan is "trying" a Super Regional this year, it may just prove
or perhaps disprove the concept, but if you don't "try it" how would
you really know?, we'll soon find out.

Legitimate US Rules / Safety / Tradition etc. Pros and Cons aside,
nothing ventured is nothing gained; I'll volunteer to fly in that "see
if it works" contest, no problem.

Rick - 21

p.s. I would have been happy to drop one of my days at R-9 2008, would
it have made a positive difference? perhaps John can run the #s ļ

[[email protected]]

On Jan 22, 7:54*am, wrote:
> I don't particularly like the drop score idea, it can be annoying when
> I have dealt with it in sailboat racing. *I do think adopting the
> international rules that don't penalize a landout as badly are a good
> step.
>
> On a side note, *could the rules committe leave the rules alone for a
> few years !!! *Just let us have 2 to 4 years in a row with the same
> rules. *This constant experimenting annoys the rats.
>
> Todd Smith
> 3S

I was just curious. How to you assume the programmer(s) who do
Winscore are going to automatically incorporate all the new
combinations and permutations of the never ceasing rule changes each
year? Isn't it an uncompensated job to keep the scoring program up to
date? I used to score the Region 12 with a program written in BASIC.
It used to drive me nuts when they'd change a rule. How do the new
programmers cope with constant rule changes and the variations in
rules between regionals/nationals, Sports, Club class etc etc.?

[4Z]

On Jan 22, 2:31*pm, wrote:
> On Jan 22, 7:54*am, wrote:
>
> > I don't particularly like the drop score idea, it can be annoying when
> > I have dealt with it in sailboat racing. *I do think adopting the
> > international rules that don't penalize a landout as badly are a good
> > step.
>
> > On a side note, *could the rules committe leave the rules alone for a
> > few years !!! *Just let us have 2 to 4 years in a row with the same
> > rules. *This constant experimenting annoys the rats.
>
> > Todd Smith
> > 3S
>
> I was just curious. How to you assume the programmer(s) who do
> Winscore are going to automatically incorporate all the new
> combinations and permutations of the never ceasing rule changes each
> year? *Isn't it an uncompensated job to keep the scoring program up to
> date? I used to score the Region 12 with a program written in BASIC.
> It used to drive me nuts when they'd change a rule. How do the new
> programmers cope with constant rule changes and the variations in
> rules between regionals/nationals, Sports, Club class etc etc.?

I'm with the guy who says just leave the rules alone for a few years.
If you want to "try something out" let's try doing nothing for a
while. It seems there is a constant quest for solutions in search of a
problem. Maybe we should have a rules committee every 2 or 4 years.
Pilots analyze their flights in contests in the off season and figure
out how the rules unfairly impacted their scores under certain
situations. Then they come up with "solutions" that in turn have all
sorts of unintended ramifications, which in turn require more rules to
remedy. And away we go. I've been "screwed" many times by the rules
but I lived with it. The rules will never be perfect and constant
tweaking seems to favor those who want to study some arcane
permutations rather than just go fly as well as you can to beat the
other guy. I appreciate the RC's efforts but hey guys, take a break!
I'd rather have John spend his time saving the economy or barring
that, lying on the beach somewhere warm. Just Chill!! OK, I'll take
my grumpy pants off now. 4Z

[[email protected]]

On Jan 21, 7:52*am, wrote:
> Pilots all:
>
> The US rules have for several years had the option of "drop your worst
> day" scoring. So far noone has used it, but I for one would like to
> give it a try.
>
> Most of all, I think pilots will like it a lot. Yes, in the end
> somebody has to win, but that horrible feeling of “now I’m screwed I
> might as well go home” after a landout or a bad day will vanish,
> making the contest a lot more fun.
>
> I think it can help safety. I think pilots would more quickly give up
> on awful days, choosing to take their “drop day” rather than press on
> causing the usual landout damage we see on weak days. *I think it
> would also help pilots to make that hard decision to abandon the task
> in thunderstorms or clearly dangerous weather.
>
> There is a bit of a counterargument. Perhpas pilots will strike out
> and fly more aggressively knowing they can drop a landout. This might
> get worse on the last day, and pilots might feel the need to do more
> math and strategizing. I don't think this is true, but that's why we
> need to try it in regionals.
>
> I also our team selection also puts too much emphasis on avoiding one
> bad day, and thus too much emphasis on flying lots of contests in lots
> of different classes. Moving this to nationals and team selection will
> take years of course, but if everyone thinks it's great that could
> happen eventually.
>
> The rule is rather carefully crafted. If you just “drop your worst
> score” you might end up dropping the day you won, if it was devalued
> to 500 points. *Instead you “get the winner’s score” on whichever day
> that helps you the most. And it phases in, as it should for short
> contests. The actual text is below.
>
> I'm talking to one CD about trying this at a regional this year, and
> will talk to more as the schedule gets finalized. *Certainly, a
> groundswell from pilots of "hey, could we try the drop a day (or more
> accurately, worst day adjustement) at this contest?" would give us
> more chances to try it. So, I'm posting this in the hope that lots of
> pilots will talk to the CDs of contests they plan to go to and
> encourage them to give it a try, or that CDs will see the post
> directly and get the bug. *In all fairness, the decision to use this
> should be made early and well publicized.
>
> John Cochrane
> BB
>
> 11.4.4 † Worst Day Score Adjustment
> If this is declared to be in effect, an adjustment is calculated and
> added to the cumulative score of
> each entrant.
> 11.4.4.1 † Worst Day Score Differential
> For each entrant, WDSD is the greatest difference on any contest day
> between the entrant's score
> (before application of a Contest penalty) and the highest score
> achieved by any regular entrant in
> the class on that day.
> 11.4.4.2 † A Worst Day Score Adjustment is added to each entrant's
> cumulative score, as follows:
> After one official day: WDSA = zero
> After 2 official days: WDSA = 0.25 * WDSD
> After 3 official days: WDSA = 0.5 * WDSD
> After 4 official days: WDSA = 0.75 * WDSD
> After 5 or more official days: WDSA = WDSD

John, surprize, many know its been in the rules, for the last
several years. Trust me, all the CD's I know, do read the rules. But a
question, as this has to be declared before the contest starts. OK, so
a 5 day regional, that gets in 3 days, because of weather, now turns
into a 2 day regional and is devalued for seeding purposes??
Hmmm....... BUT, what about a 5 day regional, that declares this, only
gets in 2 days, now becomes a non contest. Seems like your chasing
your tail on this one. We get 2 days in, but drop one, and now no
contest. We write rules to allow a 2 day contest which then is
devalued for seeding and chooses a regional winner, but now, becomes a
zero because of the drop day? Wow.
Now, you haven't looked at how the scores would be effected
and yet think its a good idea? So, the racers who are stable and turn
in a level performance lose because of the local hot jock with a bad
day.......hmmmmmmm.
My Feb. 2009 issue of Soaring magazine just came today. John,
today, is Jan. 21. The BOD hasn't even met yet at the general
membership meeting and your new half start anywhere is fully discussed
in your contest corner as a new rule. John, they did forgot your
drawings, so, maybe, you can get them posted on your website, as the
RAS really does't get to everyone.
What's the publishing deadline for submittion of articles into
the magazine? John, your just not stiring the pot, on RAS, to see what
kinda responce you'll get are you? Naw, my bad, sorry about
that........I went to a west coast college. John, is your campus still
selling them road maps to the Kansas weed fields???

Thermal tight,
Soaring into 2009, with sandbox 101, (freeware @ Tucows.com)
Before flight, join hands and chant, at the head of the
grid .."we are the fagareweesss"..........#711.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 22, 8:42*pm, wrote:
> On Jan 21, 7:52*am, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Pilots all:
>
> > The US rules have for several years had the option of "drop your worst
> > day" scoring. So far noone has used it, but I for one would like to
> > give it a try.
>
> > Most of all, I think pilots will like it a lot. Yes, in the end
> > somebody has to win, but that horrible feeling of “now I’m screwed I
> > might as well go home” after a landout or a bad day will vanish,
> > making the contest a lot more fun.
>
> > I think it can help safety. I think pilots would more quickly give up
> > on awful days, choosing to take their “drop day” rather than press on
> > causing the usual landout damage we see on weak days. *I think it
> > would also help pilots to make that hard decision to abandon the task
> > in thunderstorms or clearly dangerous weather.
>
> > There is a bit of a counterargument. Perhpas pilots will strike out
> > and fly more aggressively knowing they can drop a landout. This might
> > get worse on the last day, and pilots might feel the need to do more
> > math and strategizing. I don't think this is true, but that's why we
> > need to try it in regionals.
>
> > I also our team selection also puts too much emphasis on avoiding one
> > bad day, and thus too much emphasis on flying lots of contests in lots
> > of different classes. Moving this to nationals and team selection will
> > take years of course, but if everyone thinks it's great that could
> > happen eventually.
>
> > The rule is rather carefully crafted. If you just “drop your worst
> > score” you might end up dropping the day you won, if it was devalued
> > to 500 points. *Instead you “get the winner’s score” on whichever day
> > that helps you the most. And it phases in, as it should for short
> > contests. The actual text is below.
>
> > I'm talking to one CD about trying this at a regional this year, and
> > will talk to more as the schedule gets finalized. *Certainly, a
> > groundswell from pilots of "hey, could we try the drop a day (or more
> > accurately, worst day adjustement) at this contest?" would give us
> > more chances to try it. So, I'm posting this in the hope that lots of
> > pilots will talk to the CDs of contests they plan to go to and
> > encourage them to give it a try, or that CDs will see the post
> > directly and get the bug. *In all fairness, the decision to use this
> > should be made early and well publicized.
>
> > John Cochrane
> > BB
>
> > 11.4.4 † Worst Day Score Adjustment
> > If this is declared to be in effect, an adjustment is calculated and
> > added to the cumulative score of
> > each entrant.
> > 11.4.4.1 † Worst Day Score Differential
> > For each entrant, WDSD is the greatest difference on any contest day
> > between the entrant's score
> > (before application of a Contest penalty) and the highest score
> > achieved by any regular entrant in
> > the class on that day.
> > 11.4.4.2 † A Worst Day Score Adjustment is added to each entrant's
> > cumulative score, as follows:
> > After one official day: WDSA = zero
> > After 2 official days: WDSA = 0.25 * WDSD
> > After 3 official days: WDSA = 0.5 * WDSD
> > After 4 official days: WDSA = 0.75 * WDSD
> > After 5 or more official days: WDSA = WDSD
>
> * * * * John, surprize, many know its been in the rules, for the last
> several years. Trust me, all the CD's I know, do read the rules. But a
> question, as this has to be declared before the contest starts. OK, so
> a 5 day regional, that gets in 3 days, because of weather, now turns
> into a 2 day regional and is devalued for seeding purposes??
> Hmmm....... BUT, what about a 5 day regional, that declares this, only
> gets in 2 days, now becomes a non contest. Seems like your chasing
> your tail on this one. We get 2 days in, but drop one, and now no
> contest. We write rules to allow a 2 day contest which then is
> devalued for seeding and chooses a regional winner, but now, becomes a
> zero because of the drop day? Wow.
> * * * * Now, you haven't looked at how the scores would be effected
> and yet think its a good idea? *So, the racers who are stable and turn
> in a level performance lose because of the local hot jock with a bad
> day.......hmmmmmmm.
> * * * * My Feb. 2009 issue of Soaring magazine just came today. John,
> today, is Jan. 21. The BOD hasn't even met yet at the general
> membership meeting and your new half start anywhere is fully discussed
> in your contest corner as a new rule. John, they did forgot your
> drawings, so, maybe, you can get them posted on your website, as the
> RAS really does't get to everyone.
> * * * * What's the publishing deadline for submittion of articles into
> the magazine? John, your just not stiring the pot, on RAS, to see what
> kinda responce you'll get are you? *Naw, my bad, sorry about
> that........I went to a west coast college. John, is your campus still
> selling them road maps to the Kansas weed fields???
>
> * * *Thermal tight,
> * * *Soaring into 2009, with sandbox 101, (freeware @ Tucows.com)
> * * *Before flight, join hands and chant, at the head of the
> grid .."we are the fagareweesss"..........#711.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Tom
Clean your glasses. It doesn't eliminate contest days. It adjusts
scores. No days get eliminated.
I'm with Romeo on this one.
UH

[John Sinclair[_2_]]

I just re-scored my last 2 regionals with "drop a day" rules and I moved
from 2nd to 1st at Minden and from 4th to 1st at Air Sailing. Wow, I like
this rule, but to be honest would we be acknowledging the best
performance? The last day at Minden we flew in a 30 knot wind and I was
afraid to get on the rocks with the conditions I was experiencing, so I
came in slow in a close race and dropped to second place. Didn't the
winner show superior skill or balls by accurately assessing the conditions
and doing what it took to win? At Air Sailing I failed to go deep enough
into the Serrias and therefore didn't contact the lift feeding a ragged
line of Q's, ended up landing out on a 1000 point day. Didn't the guy
that correctly read the lift, deserve to win the contest?
JJ

[[email protected]]

On Jan 23, 6:52*am, wrote:
> On Jan 22, 8:42*pm, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 21, 7:52*am, wrote:
>
> > > Pilots all:
>
> > > The US rules have for several years had the option of "drop your worst
> > > day" scoring. So far noone has used it, but I for one would like to
> > > give it a try.
>
> > > Most of all, I think pilots will like it a lot. Yes, in the end
> > > somebody has to win, but that horrible feeling of “now I’m screwed I
> > > might as well go home” after a landout or a bad day will vanish,
> > > making the contest a lot more fun.
>
> > > I think it can help safety. I think pilots would more quickly give up
> > > on awful days, choosing to take their “drop day” rather than press on
> > > causing the usual landout damage we see on weak days. *I think it
> > > would also help pilots to make that hard decision to abandon the task
> > > in thunderstorms or clearly dangerous weather.
>
> > > There is a bit of a counterargument. Perhpas pilots will strike out
> > > and fly more aggressively knowing they can drop a landout. This might
> > > get worse on the last day, and pilots might feel the need to do more
> > > math and strategizing. I don't think this is true, but that's why we
> > > need to try it in regionals.
>
> > > I also our team selection also puts too much emphasis on avoiding one
> > > bad day, and thus too much emphasis on flying lots of contests in lots
> > > of different classes. Moving this to nationals and team selection will
> > > take years of course, but if everyone thinks it's great that could
> > > happen eventually.
>
> > > The rule is rather carefully crafted. If you just “drop your worst
> > > score” you might end up dropping the day you won, if it was devalued
> > > to 500 points. *Instead you “get the winner’s score” on whichever day
> > > that helps you the most. And it phases in, as it should for short
> > > contests. The actual text is below.
>
> > > I'm talking to one CD about trying this at a regional this year, and
> > > will talk to more as the schedule gets finalized. *Certainly, a
> > > groundswell from pilots of "hey, could we try the drop a day (or more
> > > accurately, worst day adjustement) at this contest?" would give us
> > > more chances to try it. So, I'm posting this in the hope that lots of
> > > pilots will talk to the CDs of contests they plan to go to and
> > > encourage them to give it a try, or that CDs will see the post
> > > directly and get the bug. *In all fairness, the decision to use this
> > > should be made early and well publicized.
>
> > > John Cochrane
> > > BB
>
> > > 11.4.4 † Worst Day Score Adjustment
> > > If this is declared to be in effect, an adjustment is calculated and
> > > added to the cumulative score of
> > > each entrant.
> > > 11.4.4.1 † Worst Day Score Differential
> > > For each entrant, WDSD is the greatest difference on any contest day
> > > between the entrant's score
> > > (before application of a Contest penalty) and the highest score
> > > achieved by any regular entrant in
> > > the class on that day.
> > > 11.4.4.2 † A Worst Day Score Adjustment is added to each entrant's
> > > cumulative score, as follows:
> > > After one official day: WDSA = zero
> > > After 2 official days: WDSA = 0.25 * WDSD
> > > After 3 official days: WDSA = 0.5 * WDSD
> > > After 4 official days: WDSA = 0.75 * WDSD
> > > After 5 or more official days: WDSA = WDSD
>
> > * * * * John, surprize, many know its been in the rules, for the last
> > several years. Trust me, all the CD's I know, do read the rules. But a
> > question, as this has to be declared before the contest starts. OK, so
> > a 5 day regional, that gets in 3 days, because of weather, now turns
> > into a 2 day regional and is devalued for seeding purposes??
> > Hmmm....... BUT, what about a 5 day regional, that declares this, only
> > gets in 2 days, now becomes a non contest. Seems like your chasing
> > your tail on this one. We get 2 days in, but drop one, and now no
> > contest. We write rules to allow a 2 day contest which then is
> > devalued for seeding and chooses a regional winner, but now, becomes a
> > zero because of the drop day? Wow.
> > * * * * Now, you haven't looked at how the scores would be effected
> > and yet think its a good idea? *So, the racers who are stable and turn
> > in a level performance lose because of the local hot jock with a bad
> > day.......hmmmmmmm.
> > * * * * My Feb. 2009 issue of Soaring magazine just came today. John,
> > today, is Jan. 21. The BOD hasn't even met yet at the general
> > membership meeting and your new half start anywhere is fully discussed
> > in your contest corner as a new rule. John, they did forgot your
> > drawings, so, maybe, you can get them posted on your website, as the
> > RAS really does't get to everyone.
> > * * * * What's the publishing deadline for submittion of articles into
> > the magazine? John, your just not stiring the pot, on RAS, to see what
> > kinda responce you'll get are you? *Naw, my bad, sorry about
> > that........I went to a west coast college. John, is your campus still
> > selling them road maps to the Kansas weed fields???
>
> > * * *Thermal tight,
> > * * *Soaring into 2009, with sandbox 101, (freeware @ Tucows.com)
> > * * *Before flight, join hands and chant, at the head of the
> > grid .."we are the fagareweesss"..........#711.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Tom
> Clean your glasses. It doesn't eliminate contest days. It adjusts
> scores. No days get eliminated.
> I'm with Romeo on this one.
> UH- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Then.....HANK

Stop holding back and say what you think.
Hold it in long enough, you will explode.

.............711.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 23, 6:15*am, John Sinclair > wrote:
> I just re-scored my last 2 regionals with "drop a day" rules and I moved
> from 2nd to 1st at Minden and from 4th to 1st at Air Sailing. Wow, I like
> this rule, but to be honest would we be acknowledging the best
> performance? The last day at Minden we flew in a 30 knot wind and I was
> afraid to get on the rocks with the conditions I was experiencing, so I
> came in slow in a close race and dropped to second place. Didn't the
> winner show superior skill or balls by accurately assessing the conditions
> and doing what it took to win? At Air Sailing I failed to go deep enough
> into the Serrias and therefore didn't contact the lift feeding a ragged
> line of Q's, ended up landing out on a 1000 point day. Didn't the guy
> that correctly read the lift, deserve to win the contest?
> JJ

The interesting thing for me is how much the final standings are
locked in by the morning of the final day. This is because on the last
day you can only catch up on another pilot by the largest number of
points they were out of first on any prior day less the number of
points you are out of first on the last day. If you beat them by more
than this they will simply drop the last day by rule.

I re-scored R9 2007 and 2008 for 15-meter. In 2008 there were only two
pilots in the running to catch up with Gary Ittner going into the last
day and the second of these would have had to beat Gary by 158 points
AND score within 21 points of the winner on the final day to do it. In
2007 there were three pilots in the running to challenge next-to-last
day leader John Seaborn and one would have had to score at least 979
points on a 1000 point day to do it. You can imagine a circumstance
where the leader would have the option not to fly on the last day - or
simply have to follow a single pilot around on the final day.

As a practical matter it's not all that different from today - it just
takes circumstances from a strong probability to a mathematical
certainty.

9B

[[email protected]]

On Jan 23, 9:55*am, wrote:
> On Jan 23, 6:15*am, John Sinclair > wrote:
>
> > I just re-scored my last 2 regionals with "drop a day" rules and I moved
> > from 2nd to 1st at Minden and from 4th to 1st at Air Sailing. Wow, I like
> > this rule, but to be honest would we be acknowledging the best
> > performance? The last day at Minden we flew in a 30 knot wind and I was
> > afraid to get on the rocks with the conditions I was experiencing, so I
> > came in slow in a close race and dropped to second place. Didn't the
> > winner show superior skill or balls by accurately assessing the conditions
> > and doing what it took to win? At Air Sailing I failed to go deep enough
> > into the Serrias and therefore didn't contact the lift feeding a ragged
> > line of Q's, ended up landing out on a 1000 point day. Didn't the guy
> > that correctly read the lift, deserve to win the contest?
> > JJ
>
> The interesting thing for me is how much the final standings are
> locked in by the morning of the final day. This is because on the last
> day you can only catch up on another pilot by the largest number of
> points they were out of first on any prior day less the number of
> points you are out of first on the last day. If you beat them by more
> than this they will simply drop the last day by rule.
>
> I re-scored R9 2007 and 2008 for 15-meter. In 2008 there were only two
> pilots in the running to catch up with Gary Ittner going into the last
> day and the second of these would have had to beat Gary by 158 points
> AND score within 21 points of the winner on the final day to do it. In
> 2007 there were three pilots in the running to challenge next-to-last
> day leader John Seaborn and one would have had to score at least 979
> points on a 1000 point day to do it. *You can imagine a circumstance
> where the leader would have the option not to fly on the last day - or
> simply have to follow a single pilot around on the final day.
>
> As a practical matter it's not all that different from today - it just
> takes circumstances from a strong probability to a mathematical
> certainty.
>
> 9B

Under the proposal, the range of scores narrows by 30-40% it would
appear. For the 2007 contest mentioned above, the point spread from
1-5 went from 573 to 361 and from 1-10 went from 1286 to 913. The
average number of points between places went from 143 to 101. You
appear to get more tightening in the top few places than further down
the scoresheet - though I'm not sure this is generally true.

9B

[John Bojack[_2_]]

>
> On a side note, could the rules committe leave the rules alone for a
> few years !!! Just let us have 2 to 4 years in a row with the same
> rules. This constant experimenting annoys the rats.
>
> Todd Smith
> 3S

I'll second THAT!!!

J4

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 23, 11:54*am, wrote:

I wonder if we can refer to this as "enhance a day" or "save a day",
or even "inflate a day", rather that "drop a day" which seems to be
misleading.

Andy

[4Z]

On Jan 24, 8:20*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Jan 23, 11:54*am, wrote:
>
> I wonder if we can refer to this as "enhance a day" or "save a day",
> or even "inflate a day", rather that "drop a day" which seems to be
> misleading.
>
> Andy

Yeah, sort of like "climate change", or "Patriot act', or "strategic
hamlet", or "advance to the rear". Oops

[Pat Russell]

The Bungle Booster (tm)

[[email protected]]

On Jan 24, 11:10*am, Pat Russell > wrote:
> The Bungle Booster (tm)

"Redeem-a-day"

Come to think of it, you get 1000 points typically on the day you mess
up the worst - so, do you get to give the talk at the pilot's meeting
the next day?