On-board Video Equipment?

[noel.wade]

Hi All,

I'm hoping to take some on-board video of my first Regional
competition in April - but all I have right now is a hand-held
camcorder. OBVIOUSLY that is not a safe device to use when doing any
serious flying; especially not in a contest environment!

So I wanted to ask folks if they knew of a good setup to use. I'm
thinking about a bullet/lipstick camera that I can put either in the
cockpit (on some kind of remote mount), or up on the TE probe. I want
something I can simply turn on at the beginning of each flight and let
it capture a couple of hours of video (hands-free operation so its not
a distraction during my competition).

I've found some interesting "helmet-cam" type systems (the VIO POV1
system is especially impressive), but I'm not sure if these systems
have a wide-enough lens or can focus on distant objects well-enough to
capture the actual scenery when soaring.

Any tips or ideas on equipment?

Thanks, take care,

--Noel

[[email protected]]

On Jan 28, 3:31*am, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm hoping to take some on-board video of my first Regional
> competition in April - but all I have right now is a hand-held
> camcorder. *OBVIOUSLY that is not a safe device to use when doing any
> serious flying; especially not in a contest environment!
>
> So I wanted to ask folks if they knew of a good setup to use. *I'm
> thinking about a bullet/lipstick camera that I can put either in the
> cockpit (on some kind of remote mount), or up on the TE probe. *I want
> something I can simply turn on at the beginning of each flight and let
> it capture a couple of hours of video (hands-free operation so its not
> a distraction during my competition).
>
> I've found some interesting "helmet-cam" type systems (the VIO POV1
> system is especially impressive), but I'm not sure if these systems
> have a wide-enough lens or can focus on distant objects well-enough to
> capture the actual scenery when soaring.
>
> Any tips or ideas on equipment?
>
> Thanks, take care,
>
> --Noel

May I gently suggest that flying a first competition and in-air
photography are each tasks that take 120% of your attention and
probably not wise to combine.

John Cochrane BB

[Rob[_5_]]

On Jan 28, 4:31*am, "noel.wade" > wrote:

> Any tips or ideas on equipment?

I managed to get an ACT3K for Christmas that I believe will be ideal
for this kind of thing -- but I won't be able to report back any first-
hand experience until all the stupid snow is gone. . ..

http://www2.oregonscientific.com/shop/browse.asp?cid=6&scid=14

There are a few sample videos on the web, but mostly made with
motorbikes: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=yD2MufbV_To

Cheers,

Rob

[[email protected]]

Noel,

The esteemed John Cochrane BB is right on. Adding camera duties on top
of your flying duties at your first contest invites equipment
overload. Two or three contests down the road you can consider the
wisdom of a video camera in the cockpit. The contest work load is not
to be under anticipated.

John Seaborn A8

[Tuno]

Rob,

That ACT3K looks interesting but I can't find any mention at the web
page or its user manual wrt how much video it will hold. With a
storage limitation of 4G it doesn't seem it will be very much. What's
been your experience?

Is the quality good? I've seen lots of cameras that specify 640x480
resolution but they do it will CCDs that are smaller, sometimes a lot
smaller.

~ted/2NO

[Frank Whiteley]

On Jan 28, 7:40*am, Rob > wrote:
> On Jan 28, 4:31*am, "noel.wade" > wrote:
>
> > Any tips or ideas on equipment?
>
> I managed to get an ACT3K for Christmas that I believe will be ideal
> for this kind of thing -- but I won't be able to report back any first-
> hand experience until all the stupid snow is gone. . *..
>
> http://www2.oregonscientific.com/shop/browse.asp?cid=6&scid=14
>
> There are a few sample videos on the web, but mostly made with
> motorbikes:http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=yD2MufbV_To
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rob

In the SSA Video Gallery, the video by Dave Newill (2nd row left) as
taken with an ACT2K. Expect the same output from the ACT3K.

POV.1 has had a couple of nice upgrades to support up to 8GB SDHC
cards and an external power feed. It has several video settings
also. It now appears possible to record up to 5h45m in the highest
setting without touching it, which would be good if used in
competition. The latest camera head has 110degs field of view. It
takes up more space than a camcorder or ACT3K.

That said, an hour to 80mins of miniDV tape yields 15GB of hiqh
quality video. These other devices are considerably lower quality for
post flight processing, but they are a lot less hassle.

Frank Whiteley

[John Smith]

wrote:

> The esteemed John Cochrane BB is right on. Adding camera duties on top
> of your flying duties at your first contest invites equipment
> overload. Two or three contests down the road you can consider the

Do some of you you even read a question before answering to it? Noel
explicitely asked for something he "can simply turn on at the beginning
of each flight and let it capture a couple of hours of video".

[Paul Remde]

Hi Noel,

While I agree with others that you don't want to be "playing" with the video
camera while in flight, I do think that it would be OK to rigidly install
something before flight and forget it while in flight.

I had a company approach me recently about selling their digital video
systems. They are designed for use in race cars and aircraft. They are
more expensive though - starting at about $1698 for a single camera system.
It uses a very small Sony EXView 580 camera head and a small digital
recorder box. It is not HD quality, but much better than the low cost video
cameras mentioned elsewhere in this thread. The videos on their web site
are quite impressive.

I told them I would think about selling their products after seeing if their
is interest first. I plan to mention the system in my next newsletter. It
would be fun to sell products like this, but I fear that the technology is
changing so rapidly that it doesn't make sense to stock anything.

The systems are from datatoys.com. Below are some links to the products of
interest.
http://www.datatoys.com/products/Specialty_Systems-Aviation/c10_11/index.html
http://www.datatoys.com/products/Products-Video_Systems/c9_1/p37/XM-DVR_Pro_Plus_System/product_info.html

Let me know if you are interested in one of their systems and I'd be glad to
help you out.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"noel.wade" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> I'm hoping to take some on-board video of my first Regional
> competition in April - but all I have right now is a hand-held
> camcorder. OBVIOUSLY that is not a safe device to use when doing any
> serious flying; especially not in a contest environment!
>
> So I wanted to ask folks if they knew of a good setup to use. I'm
> thinking about a bullet/lipstick camera that I can put either in the
> cockpit (on some kind of remote mount), or up on the TE probe. I want
> something I can simply turn on at the beginning of each flight and let
> it capture a couple of hours of video (hands-free operation so its not
> a distraction during my competition).
>
> I've found some interesting "helmet-cam" type systems (the VIO POV1
> system is especially impressive), but I'm not sure if these systems
> have a wide-enough lens or can focus on distant objects well-enough to
> capture the actual scenery when soaring.
>
> Any tips or ideas on equipment?
>
> Thanks, take care,
>
> --Noel
>

[Papa3]

On Jan 28, 12:13*pm, John Smith > wrote:
> wrote:
> > The esteemed John Cochrane BB is right on. Adding camera duties on top
> > of your flying duties at your first contest invites equipment
> > overload. Two or three contests down the road you can consider the
>
> Do some of you you even read a question before answering to it? Noel
> explicitely asked for something he "can simply turn on at the beginning
> of each flight and let it capture a couple of hours of video".

Both of the folks who replied clearly read the post and clearly
anticipated the problems that a newbie wouldn't. Imagine the
scenario... Sitting on the grid 10 minutes before launch. Time to
turn on the camera. Let's see if the little green light comes on.
Hmmm... no little green light. I wonder why that is? Let's check
the connections to the battery. Damn... I wonder if I forgot to
recharge. I'll just stroll back to the trailer to get the backup.
Hmm... I know it's here somewhere. Hey, why are all those guys down
on the line jumping up and down?

I'm sure Noel is smarter than that. Unfortunately, that's "resting
IQ." Contests seem to make us all dumber by 25%, and suddenly we're
not nearly as smart as we thought we were.

There are so many things that can and will go wrong at the first
contest. Do you really think that playing Warren Miller of the Sky
is a smart use of what little brain capacity may be left?

Sometimes the pundits really do know what they're talking about.

Respectfully submitted,
P3

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 28, 10:13*am, John Smith > wrote:
>
> Do some of you you even read a question before answering to it? Noel
> explicitely asked for something he "can simply turn on at the beginning
> of each flight and let it capture a couple of hours of video".

With a hand held camera the pilot has to point the camera to frame the
picture. With a fixed camera the pilot has to point the glider to
frame the picture. While it may be possible to turn it on and forget
it, I think it is possible, or even probable, that there would be a
temptation to fly differently with an active camera on board.

Andy

[noel.wade]

All -

I knew I would get some replies with concerns about safety. First: I
thank you for your input and caution. Please understand that I will
be taking all of this into account; and its always good to hear
_friendly_ reminders about these factors. :-)

My intention, as stated, is to do something that is "fire and
forget". And I will NOT be compromising the race in order to catch it
on film. The idea is to use the footage as an educational /
motivational tool for other young XC pilots, IF I can. I'm an IT
person when I'm not flying, so I'm very comfortable with the
technology and I think I can rig it all up a few weeks before-hand and
not have it be a distraction.

If I don't have it all set up and tested before I trailer down to
Warner Springs in April, I will NOT attempt to set it up at the
competition site. Furthermore, if the camera doesn't work the first
time I press the power or record button, it will be discarded /
ignored. The competition itself is undoubtedly top priority - I'm
there to have a safe and fun time flying; I'm not there to be a
filmmaker.

Paul - thanks for the info; I'm looking to spend $500 - $800 (maybe a
little more if I find something to-die-for; but NOT $1600). :-P

Also, for any system that needs a "head unit", I can use a remote
camera and plug its output into my camcorder (secured and unreachable
behind the seat). The camcorder is a hard-drive-based one that can
record for a pretty good length of time; but I'd rather not deal with
it if I don't have to.

Thanks all, I appreciate any further suggestions,

--Noel

[Tim Mara[_2_]]

I have been pretty impressed with just how much video and audio you can do
with cheap digital still camera's... I saved 45 minutes on a single SD Card
with room to spare on my Kodak DC265...no external power source, no special
mount, just start in Video and forget it.....converting this into a DVD that
could play on any DVD player for TV Presentation took a bit more effort but
I did this with a free software from DVD Flick .
I've also seen some new digital camcorders as low as $129.00 .. with these
options I think anyone can make simple movies from a glider with pretty good
results.
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"noel.wade" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> I'm hoping to take some on-board video of my first Regional
> competition in April - but all I have right now is a hand-held
> camcorder. OBVIOUSLY that is not a safe device to use when doing any
> serious flying; especially not in a contest environment!
>
> So I wanted to ask folks if they knew of a good setup to use. I'm
> thinking about a bullet/lipstick camera that I can put either in the
> cockpit (on some kind of remote mount), or up on the TE probe. I want
> something I can simply turn on at the beginning of each flight and let
> it capture a couple of hours of video (hands-free operation so its not
> a distraction during my competition).
>
> I've found some interesting "helmet-cam" type systems (the VIO POV1
> system is especially impressive), but I'm not sure if these systems
> have a wide-enough lens or can focus on distant objects well-enough to
> capture the actual scenery when soaring.
>
> Any tips or ideas on equipment?
>
> Thanks, take care,
>
> --Noel
>

[noel.wade]

P.S. Since most people don't know me that well, let me explain my
attitude towards technology and distractions in the cockpit:

I'm the kind of IT guy who yells at everyone to stop playing with
their PDAs and flight computers, and to keep their eyes OUTSIDE! :-P

I fly with a PDA myself, but all I do is glance at it occasionally to
determine 3 things (in this order):

1) Am I where I think I am?
2) Does the computer think I can make it to any airports/landout spots
(i.e. "What's my escape route right now")?
3) How far is it to my desired waypoint?

I set my systems up so that this is all "no-hands" operation, and I
rarely, if ever, monkey with the PDA in flight (usually only when on
casual flights and the Wx is not what was forecast, so I change my
waypoints to fly in a different part of the sky). Even then, I only do
it while in straight-and-level flight when I'm not near other gliders
or aircraft... and I only go "heads-down" for 5 - 10 seconds at a
time. That means these small changes can take a couple of minutes;
but I've had a couple of near-collisions while flying powered aircraft
- so I REALLY value "see and avoid"!

Now, back to cameras... any thoughts?

--Noel

[[email protected]]

On Jan 28, 1:59*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> P.S. *Since most people don't know me that well, let me explain my
> attitude towards technology and distractions in the cockpit:
>
> I'm the kind of IT guy who yells at everyone to stop playing with
> their PDAs and flight computers, and to keep their eyes OUTSIDE! :-P
>
> I fly with a PDA myself, but all I do is glance at it occasionally to
> determine 3 things (in this order):
>
> 1) Am I where I think I am?
> 2) Does the computer think I can make it to any airports/landout spots
> (i.e. "What's my escape route right now")?
> 3) How far is it to my desired waypoint?
>
> I set my systems up so that this is all "no-hands" operation, and I
> rarely, if ever, monkey with the PDA in flight (usually only when on
> casual flights and the Wx is not what was forecast, so I change my
> waypoints to fly in a different part of the sky). Even then, I only do
> it while in straight-and-level flight when I'm not near other gliders
> or aircraft... and I only go "heads-down" for 5 - 10 seconds at a
> time. *That means these small changes can take a couple of minutes;
> but I've had a couple of near-collisions while flying powered aircraft
> - so I REALLY value "see and avoid"!
>
> Now, back to cameras... *any thoughts?
>
> --Noel

Umm... just a practical suggestion here...
you might want to spend that time practicing a few PDA tasks
before the contest. You will fly area tasks and MAT tasks there,
which
mostly don't correspond to what you fly at home. Both of those
require
some special PDA skills that you need to do effortlessly in the
cockpit.
They're not hard, but they are specialized.

I'm with you on the whole "look outside" issue, but I did spend my
off season last year learning how to use the area task features of
SoarPilot using Condor. They were very helpful, and they meant that
I didn't need to fiddle with the PDA very much while flying my tasks.

Now, back to the camera stuff. The camera or videocam will both be
very useful on the ground when you're not flying. You'll find out
that you'll
have a blast with the social life at the contest, and the camera shots
and videos will reflect that. That will be a real good selling point
for your friends back home. For videos shot during the flight, it
would
be nice if you could put a camera behind your left ear that can see
the
instrument panel and outside, but I wouldn't spend much time on it.

-- Matt

[[email protected]]

On Jan 28, 1:27*pm, wrote:
> On Jan 28, 1:59*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > P.S. *Since most people don't know me that well, let me explain my
> > attitude towards technology and distractions in the cockpit:
>
> > I'm the kind of IT guy who yells at everyone to stop playing with
> > their PDAs and flight computers, and to keep their eyes OUTSIDE! :-P
>
> > I fly with a PDA myself, but all I do is glance at it occasionally to
> > determine 3 things (in this order):
>
> > 1) Am I where I think I am?
> > 2) Does the computer think I can make it to any airports/landout spots
> > (i.e. "What's my escape route right now")?
> > 3) How far is it to my desired waypoint?
>
> > I set my systems up so that this is all "no-hands" operation, and I
> > rarely, if ever, monkey with the PDA in flight (usually only when on
> > casual flights and the Wx is not what was forecast, so I change my
> > waypoints to fly in a different part of the sky). Even then, I only do
> > it while in straight-and-level flight when I'm not near other gliders
> > or aircraft... and I only go "heads-down" for 5 - 10 seconds at a
> > time. *That means these small changes can take a couple of minutes;
> > but I've had a couple of near-collisions while flying powered aircraft
> > - so I REALLY value "see and avoid"!
>
> > Now, back to cameras... *any thoughts?
>
> > --Noel
>
> Umm... just a practical suggestion here...
> you might want to spend that time practicing a few PDA tasks
> before the contest. *You will fly area tasks and MAT tasks there,
> which
> mostly don't correspond to what you fly at home. *Both of those
> require
> some special PDA skills that you need to do effortlessly in the
> cockpit.
> They're not hard, but they are specialized.
>
> I'm with you on the whole "look outside" issue, but I did spend my
> off season last year learning how to use the area task features of
> SoarPilot using Condor. *They were very helpful, and they meant that
> I didn't need to fiddle with the PDA very much while flying my tasks.
>
> Now, back to the camera stuff. *The camera or videocam will both be
> very useful on the ground when you're not flying. *You'll find out
> that you'll
> have a blast with the social life at the contest, and the camera shots
> and videos will reflect that. *That will be a real good selling point
> for your friends back home. *For videos shot during the flight, it
> would
> be nice if you could put a camera behind your left ear that can see
> the
> instrument panel and outside, but I wouldn't spend much time on it.
>
> -- Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Noel,

http://gizmofocus-llc.amazonwebstore.com/SecuMate-Ultra-Mini-Portable-Security-Color/M/B001C1WMTS.htm?traffic_src=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_source=froogle

I bought one of these along with a fixed mount bullet camera to play
with this year. It seems pretty simple to setup and the video is
reasonable given the cost (352x240@30fps, 704x240@24fps,
704x480@12fps). It's about the size of a pack of cigarettes with a
simple one-touch record on-off button. One caveat though, it creates a
series of short video files in memory rather than one long one. I
believe the purpose for that is to loop around and overwrite the
oldest one when memory runs out (it's a security recorder). However,
it does play back in one seamless stream (chronologically) with no
visible splice points. I have played with it a bit at home and it's
fairly easy to capture the playback video as one continuous stream on
the computer. If you're looking for HD quality, this won't work.

If you're interested, you can borrow it for a bit to play with. I
won't be needing it for a while..... :o(


Dave

[Kemp[_2_]]

>snip<
>The camcorder is a hard-drive-based one that can
> record for a pretty good length of time; but I'd rather not deal with
> it if I don't have to.

Noel,
In my talk at last year's SSA convention, "HD Video and Soaring" I
overviewed the videocam in cockpit situation, I can send you the
slides if you like.

One thing I point out is that hard disk based systems are often
limited to 10,000 ft as that head is "flying" on a very thin cushion
of air, so you risk a head crash esp. at a place like Warner Springs.

But we need more people shooting footage that has a lesson it (vs
entertainment).

Kemp

[Mike Ash]

In article
>,
"noel.wade" > wrote:

> Any tips or ideas on equipment?

I've been playing around with this recently, trying to go for reasonable
quality at a minimum of cost. I've ended up with an Aiptek A-HD+ and a
Clampette from High Sierra Manufacturing. This camera is very much of
the no-name off-brand cheapo variety, but it does surprisingly well
considering. It's not nearly as nice as Kempton's HD Soaring stuff but
at under $200 total for everything, I'm very pleased. (Video is cool,
but past that amount I'd rather spend the money on tows!)

If you're interested you can see the one video I've done with it so far
here:

http://www.mikeash.com/?page=glider_first_hd_video.html

I used the Clampette to mount it to my seat and that was that. One
trouble is that the battery only lasts about 90 minutes and the thing
refuses to record while on external power, so an external battery pack
seems not to be an option. I'm talking with their tech support to see if
there may be a way around this, but I might just be limited to shorter
recording sessions.

As for distraction, well, listen to the more experienced guys, not me.
Personally I haven't really thought about the camera while flying, but
I've only flown with it twice and maybe I just haven't noticed its
effect on me. Trying to get cool shots with the camera while in the air
is of course a big no-no, but resolving to just let it run and forget
about it until I land has worked well so far.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[Jim White[_2_]]

At 18:59 28 January 2009, noel.wade wrote:
>
>Now, back to cameras... any thoughts?

Hi Noel

I bought a bullet camera with fixed mount (head cam is a pain in the
neck!) and a solid state recorder about the size of a cigarette packet.

The recorder was designed for covert surveillance. It records about 3hrs
on one charge at 30fps VGA with sound onto an SD card. Very good quality
and easy to use. Cost about $600.

Now the bad news - editing. I installed AVS4YOU to edit down the footage.
Have you ever tried to edit 3hrs down to a few minutes? It requires huge
computing power, huge disks, and huge patience. It is unbelievably boring
and the end result won't even be appreciated by your friends, let alone
your family.

IMO better value in other pursuits.

Jim

[noel.wade]

On Jan 28, 10:30*pm, Jim White > wrote:

> Now the bad news - editing. I installed AVS4YOU to edit down the footage.
> Have you ever tried to edit 3hrs down to a few minutes? It requires huge
> computing power, huge disks, and huge patience. It is unbelievably boring
> and the end result won't even be appreciated by your friends, let alone
> your family.
>
> IMO better value in other pursuits.
>
> Jim

Jim -

Yes, I _have_ editted down that much video into just a few
minutes! ;-)

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBB_ggqYFA

Thanks for the tips, though!

--Noel
(Who must be a masochist)

[[email protected]]

On Jan 28, 11:13*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> On Jan 28, 10:30*pm, Jim White > wrote:
>
> > Now the bad news - editing. I installed AVS4YOU to edit down the footage.
> > Have you ever tried to edit 3hrs down to a few minutes? It requires huge
> > computing power, huge disks, and huge patience. It is unbelievably boring
> > and the end result won't even be appreciated by your friends, let alone
> > your family.
>
> > IMO better value in other pursuits.
>
> > Jim
>
> Jim -
>
> Yes, I _have_ editted down that much video into just a few
> minutes! ;-)
>
> See: *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBB_ggqYFA
>
> Thanks for the tips, though!
>
> --Noel
> (Who must be a masochist)

I've used the color bullet cameras that plug into the video-in jack on
my DV camcorder. Get the highest definition you can find - IIRC they
max out at around 420 lines. I mounted mine on the nose looking back
at the cockpit using a camera mount on an aluminum pole about 12" long
that was mounted to a sheet of aluminum which I taped down like crazy.
The photos were pretty good considering my inability to pan, zoom or
assess the lighting (into the sun sucked - duh). For your purposes I
would not, repeat not, go for an external mount. It's a mess to run
the wires out through the vent window, along the canopy to the hinge
point, then along the fuselage and maybe the wing to wherever you want
the camera. It requires constant fiddling and will cause a fair amount
of drag, especially when the tape starts peeling. There are wireless
security cameras that you might be able to adapt, but they can't even
resolve a perp at the local 7-11, much less the beauty of soaring
flight. I also wouldn't recommend mounting the whole camera externally
for reasons that are easy enough to guess. With an inside mount you
will be hard pressed to find a place that can both see past your head
and doesn't get in your way so even here you may be better off with
the bullet cam. Keep in mind that these cameras need power (typically
12 volts) and often have unusual video connectors, so know what you're
looking for and give yourself plenty of time to get everything working
well in advance.

Now to the warnings. No matter how well you prepare, no matter how
uber-alpha-geek you are and no matter how much you think this will be
fire and forget I would not really encourage you to try this at your
first contest, and particularly not unless you have made several
flights with it beforehand. Contest flying takes all kinds of
concentration, before, during and even after the flight. Getting from
the pilots meeting to the grid can be chaotic as even the old hands
sometimes forget stuff and have to scurry about to get it straightened
out. You will feel like a schmoe if you remember to turn on the
camcorder but forget drinking water. Or if you get distracted trying
to re-aim the camera because yesterday's shots all turned out to be of
your right ear and you forget to mark the TFR on your chart. You're a
smart guy and can't imagine anything like that will take you off your
game, but many of the things that go wrong in sailplane racing, or
soaring in general, sneak up on you by inches, when you don't expect
it, or are distracted. So -- if you do this you need to set the
expectation that you will not touch the thing from before the pilots
meeting until after you are put away for the day - even have your crew
(if you have one) take responsibility for turning the damn thing on
and retrieving the video at day's end.

I'll echo Kemp's point on HDD camcorders - they might work above
10,000' but combine low air density with turbulence and you might be
at the edge of the recording head's flight envelope.

9B