Grob 109 wing pins

[JJ Sinclair]

I don't believe there has ever been a failure on any Grob spar
fitting. The British air academy cadets tested a G-103 with 50,000
simulated winch launches and got one weld to crack. To my knowledge
that is it, an AD was issued and a few cracks were found, but nothing
ever came apart due to spar fitting failure. I'd say to keep on with
the ultrasonic testing every 500 hours if your national aviation
authority allows this, the US doesn't, but how often have we been
right on anything recently?
JJ

[Bob Jenneson]

Hi,
I am seeking advise on the replacement of the wing pins fitted in the
end of the spars on Grob 109 and 109B.
This also applies to the Grob Twin Astir.

A brief history.
These pins are welded to a plate that is glassed into the wing spar end
during manufacture. It was found out at a later time that some of these
assemblies were prone to cracking around the welds and required replacement
if found to be cracked.
In Australia we are required to "ultrasonic " test these pins every 500
hours ( AD 370 )
If tested 'OK' we keep flying.
We now have two aircraft that have 3000 hours each ( Life extension time )
and no cracks found.

Do we need to change the pins?

This is serious and expensive surgery and I am seeking advise as to how
other countries have dealt with this problem.
I understand that Australia in the only country that uses the ultrasonic
test.

Grob are happy to supply the new pin assemblies, but is it really necessary
if the old ones have a 3000 hour safe history.

Any help appreciated, Bob.

[Gilbert Smith]

In the UK we replace them on the G109B at 3000 hours irrespective,
together with a few other mods which come up at that time. The new
pins have a better taper, handy if you rig frequently as I do, and are
replaceable without the major surgery reuired on the first occasion.
- Colin.

"Bob Jenneson" > wrote:

>Hi,
> I am seeking advise on the replacement of the wing pins fitted in the
>end of the spars on Grob 109 and 109B.
>This also applies to the Grob Twin Astir.
>
>A brief history.
>These pins are welded to a plate that is glassed into the wing spar end
>during manufacture. It was found out at a later time that some of these
>assemblies were prone to cracking around the welds and required replacement
>if found to be cracked.
> In Australia we are required to "ultrasonic " test these pins every 500
>hours ( AD 370 )
> If tested 'OK' we keep flying.
>We now have two aircraft that have 3000 hours each ( Life extension time )
>and no cracks found.
>
>Do we need to change the pins?
>
>This is serious and expensive surgery and I am seeking advise as to how
>other countries have dealt with this problem.
>I understand that Australia in the only country that uses the ultrasonic
>test.
>
>Grob are happy to supply the new pin assemblies, but is it really necessary
>if the old ones have a 3000 hour safe history.
>
>Any help appreciated, Bob.
>

[Rod Swallow]

Dear Gilbert

I am a Grob 109b owner in Australia. Currently I am trying to assemble a
trolley to make wing folding easier as I want to be able to rig it on my
own. Do you have any suggestions?
Thanking you

Rod Swallow



At 16:13 07 February 2009, Gilbert Smith wrote:
>In the UK we replace them on the G109B at 3000 hours irrespective,
>together with a few other mods which come up at that time. The new
>pins have a better taper, handy if you rig frequently as I do, and are
>replaceable without the major surgery reuired on the first occasion.
>- Colin.
>
>"Bob Jenneson" wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>> I am seeking advise on the replacement of the wing pins fitted in
the
>
>>end of the spars on Grob 109 and 109B.
>>This also applies to the Grob Twin Astir.
>>
>>A brief history.
>>These pins are welded to a plate that is glassed into the wing spar end

>>during manufacture. It was found out at a later time that some of these

>>assemblies were prone to cracking around the welds and required
>replacement
>>if found to be cracked.
>> In Australia we are required to "ultrasonic " test these pins
every
>500
>>hours ( AD 370 )
>> If tested 'OK' we keep flying.
>>We now have two aircraft that have 3000 hours each ( Life extension
time
>)
>>and no cracks found.
>>
>>Do we need to change the pins?
>>
>>This is serious and expensive surgery and I am seeking advise as to how

>>other countries have dealt with this problem.
>>I understand that Australia in the only country that uses the ultrasonic

>>test.
>>
>>Grob are happy to supply the new pin assemblies, but is it really
>necessary
>>if the old ones have a 3000 hour safe history.
>>
>>Any help appreciated, Bob.
>>
>

[Gilbert Smith]

Hello Rod,

I use a home-spun device which clamps to the wingtip just outboard of
the aileron. I have fitted two small wheels to this so that the wing
can be moved into position while vertical. When rigging you then have
to lift the tip with the device still fitted, go flat, and push it
home. A fold-down prop then supports the tip while I engage the main
and leading edge pins.

It also has an extension of about a foot out from the trailing edge to
help with the aft c of g at the tip. I rig and derig alone every day,
and the device has been in use for 25 years.

My attempt at a trolley and hydraulic jack was a failure because I
lost the "feel" required to locate the spar pin.

If you like I can email photos of both.

Regards,
"Gilbert"

Rod Swallow > wrote:

>Dear Gilbert
>
>I am a Grob 109b owner in Australia. Currently I am trying to assemble a
>trolley to make wing folding easier as I want to be able to rig it on my
>own. Do you have any suggestions?
>Thanking you
>
>Rod Swallow
>
>
>
>At 16:13 07 February 2009, Gilbert Smith wrote:
>>In the UK we replace them on the G109B at 3000 hours irrespective,
>>together with a few other mods which come up at that time. The new
>>pins have a better taper, handy if you rig frequently as I do, and are
>>replaceable without the major surgery reuired on the first occasion.
>>- Colin.
>>
>>"Bob Jenneson" wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>> I am seeking advise on the replacement of the wing pins fitted in
>the
>>
>>>end of the spars on Grob 109 and 109B.
>>>This also applies to the Grob Twin Astir.
>>>
>>>A brief history.
>>>These pins are welded to a plate that is glassed into the wing spar end
>
>>>during manufacture. It was found out at a later time that some of these
>
>>>assemblies were prone to cracking around the welds and required
>>replacement
>>>if found to be cracked.
>>> In Australia we are required to "ultrasonic " test these pins
>every
>>500
>>>hours ( AD 370 )
>>> If tested 'OK' we keep flying.
>>>We now have two aircraft that have 3000 hours each ( Life extension
>time
>>)
>>>and no cracks found.
>>>
>>>Do we need to change the pins?
>>>
>>>This is serious and expensive surgery and I am seeking advise as to how
>
>>>other countries have dealt with this problem.
>>>I understand that Australia in the only country that uses the ultrasonic
>
>>>test.
>>>
>>>Grob are happy to supply the new pin assemblies, but is it really
>>necessary
>>>if the old ones have a 3000 hour safe history.
>>>
>>>Any help appreciated, Bob.
>>>
>>

[[email protected]]

On Mar 25, 9:18*am, Gilbert Smith > wrote:
> Hello Rod,
>
> I use a home-spun device which clamps to the wingtip just outboard of
> the aileron. I have fitted two small wheels to this so that the wing
> can be moved into position while vertical. When rigging you then have
> to lift the tip with the device still fitted, go flat, and push it
> home. A fold-down prop then supports the tip while I engage the main
> and leading edge pins.
>
> It also has an extension of about a foot out from the trailing edge to
> help with the aft c of g at the tip. I rig and derig alone every day,
> and the device has been in use for 25 years.
>
> My attempt at a trolley and hydraulic jack was a failure because I
> lost the "feel" required to locate the spar pin.
>
> If you like I can email photos of both.
>
> Regards,
> "Gilbert"
>
>
>
> Rod Swallow > wrote:
> >Dear Gilbert
>
> >I am a Grob 109b owner in Australia. Currently I am trying to assemble a
> >trolley to make wing folding easier as I want to be able to rig it on my
> >own. Do you have any suggestions?
> >Thanking you
>
> >Rod Swallow
>
> >At 16:13 07 February 2009, Gilbert Smith wrote:
> >>In the UK we replace them on the G109B at 3000 hours irrespective,
> >>together with a few other mods which come up at that time. The new
> >>pins have a better taper, handy if you rig frequently as I do, and are
> >>replaceable without the major surgery reuired on the first occasion.
> >>- Colin.
>
> >>"Bob Jenneson" *wrote:
>
> >>>Hi,
> >>> * *I am seeking advise on the replacement of the wing pins fitted in
> >the
>
> >>>end of the spars on Grob 109 and 109B.
> >>>This also applies to the Grob Twin Astir.
>
> >>>A brief history.
> >>>These pins are welded to a plate that is glassed into the wing spar end
>
> >>>during manufacture. It was found out at a later time that some of these
>
> >>>assemblies were prone to cracking around the welds and required
> >>replacement
> >>>if found to be cracked.
> >>> * * In Australia we are required to "ultrasonic " test these pins
> >every
> >>500
> >>>hours ( AD 370 )
> >>> If tested 'OK' we keep flying.
> >>>We now have two aircraft that have 3000 hours each ( Life extension
> >time
> >>)
> >>>and no cracks found.
>
> >>>Do we need to change the pins?
>
> >>>This is serious and expensive surgery and I am seeking advise as to how
>
> >>>other countries have dealt with this problem.
> >>>I understand that Australia in the only country that uses the ultrasonic
>
> >>>test.
>
> >>>Grob are happy to supply the new pin assemblies, but is it really
> >>necessary
> >>>if the old ones have a 3000 hour safe history.
>
> >>>Any help appreciated, Bob.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dear Gilbert

I would really appreciate the photos as it sounds like a much simpler
system than the one I was considering.

Thanking you

Rod Swallow

[Robert Hart[_2_]]

Gilbert,

I am getting a 109B and would like to get photos of your rigging device.
Did you fabricate it yourself or have it made for you? I have looked at
the trolley and jack system and it seems overly complex and expensive.

Regards, Robert

At 00:18 25 March 2009, Gilbert Smith wrote:
>Hello Rod,
>
>I use a home-spun device which clamps to the wingtip just outboard of
>the aileron. I have fitted two small wheels to this so that the wing
>can be moved into position while vertical. When rigging you then have
>to lift the tip with the device still fitted, go flat, and push it
>home. A fold-down prop then supports the tip while I engage the main
>and leading edge pins.
>
>It also has an extension of about a foot out from the trailing edge to
>help with the aft c of g at the tip. I rig and derig alone every day,
>and the device has been in use for 25 years.
>
>My attempt at a trolley and hydraulic jack was a failure because I
>lost the "feel" required to locate the spar pin.
>
>If you like I can email photos of both.
>
>Regards,
>"Gilbert"
>
>Rod Swallow wrote:
>
>>Dear Gilbert
>>
>>I am a Grob 109b owner in Australia. Currently I am trying to assemble
a
>>trolley to make wing folding easier as I want to be able to rig it on
my
>>own. Do you have any suggestions?
>>Thanking you
>>
>>Rod Swallow
>>
>>
>>
>>At 16:13 07 February 2009, Gilbert Smith wrote:
>>>In the UK we replace them on the G109B at 3000 hours irrespective,
>>>together with a few other mods which come up at that time. The new
>>>pins have a better taper, handy if you rig frequently as I do, and are
>>>replaceable without the major surgery reuired on the first occasion.
>>>- Colin.
>>>
>>>"Bob Jenneson" wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>> I am seeking advise on the replacement of the wing pins fitted in
>>the
>>>
>>>>end of the spars on Grob 109 and 109B.
>>>>This also applies to the Grob Twin Astir.
>>>>
>>>>A brief history.
>>>>These pins are welded to a plate that is glassed into the wing spar
end
>>
>>>>during manufacture. It was found out at a later time that some of
these
>>
>>>>assemblies were prone to cracking around the welds and required
>>>replacement
>>>>if found to be cracked.
>>>> In Australia we are required to "ultrasonic " test these pins
>>every
>>>500
>>>>hours ( AD 370 )
>>>> If tested 'OK' we keep flying.
>>>>We now have two aircraft that have 3000 hours each ( Life extension
>>time
>>>)
>>>>and no cracks found.
>>>>
>>>>Do we need to change the pins?
>>>>
>>>>This is serious and expensive surgery and I am seeking advise as to
how
>>
>>>>other countries have dealt with this problem.
>>>>I understand that Australia in the only country that uses the
>ultrasonic
>>
>>>>test.
>>>>
>>>>Grob are happy to supply the new pin assemblies, but is it really
>>>necessary
>>>>if the old ones have a 3000 hour safe history.
>>>>
>>>>Any help appreciated, Bob.
>>>>
>>>
>