advise on wax wanted

[Max Birley]

I have over the years accumulated all sorts of glider waxing products. I want to remove oxidized paint and to polish my glider (it has a polyurethane paint finish) to have a smooth finish and importantly to protect it against the very strong UV light in Texas

There is a lot of talk on the net about wax/ polish that contains silicon which can cause bonding problems. I have read e mails that say that short chain silicon’s products are ok. But how do you tell ?

I would appreciate any comments on the appropriateness of these products and any recommendations regarding better products especially if they can be used with a orbital buffer. The products need tobe available in the US.

The products that I have are as follows

Paint restoration and de oxidation products
1 3M Rubbing compound 05973
2 3M Imperial microfinishing compound
3 Racers Edge Premium Polymer Restorer 2 to remove the oxidized layer
4 Dri wash 11 guard Oxygone (never used)


Final Coat wax
1 Auto Magic
XP Express was #89
Containing
Mineral Spirit 64742-48-9
Water 7732-18-5
Aluminum Silicates 66402-68-4
Silicon Fluid 63148-62-9
Carnuba Wax 8015-86-9
Concerned about the silicon

2 Racers Egde Automotive polish
Aliphatic Hydrogens 64742-96-7 and 8052-41-3
Morpholine 110 91 8
Stoddard solvents 8052 41 2
3 Then WX block for U
4 Granitize wax (never used)
5 Dri wash 11 guard waterless car wash and protective glase-ultra ion (Not used)

All of the above have been recommended by one glider pilot or another.

But which is the best?

advice welcome

[JJ Sinclair]

Every other year I buff out my ship using a 1700 rpm grinder/buffer,
with wool pad and 3-M liquid buffing compound (think its 5973). Every
year I wax it with Mothers carnuba wax (believe its made by Simonize,
costs about $20 bucks a can). The buffing removes the old wax and any
oxidaxied paint, be careful while buffing as it can grab trailing
edges and do some real damage (always have the cutting edge turning
away from the trailing edge, never towards a trailing edge/wing tip/
rudder/aileron/elevator/flap/gear doors)
JJ


On Feb 11, 7:28*pm, Max Birley >
wrote:
> I have over the years accumulated all sorts of glider waxing products. I
> want to remove oxidized paint and to polish my glider (it has a
> polyurethane paint finish) to have a smooth finish and importantly to
> protect it against the very strong UV light in Texas
>
> There is a lot of talk on the net about wax/ polish that contains
> silicon which can cause bonding problems. I have read e mails that say
> that short chain silicon’s products are ok. But how do you tell ?
>
> I would appreciate any comments on the appropriateness of these
> products and any recommendations regarding better products especially
> if they can be used with a orbital buffer. The products need tobe
> available in the US.
>
> The products that I have are as follows
>
> Paint restoration and de oxidation products
> 1 3M Rubbing compound 05973
> 2 3M Imperial microfinishing compound
> 3 Racers Edge Premium Polymer Restorer 2 to remove the oxidized layer
> 4 Dri wash 11 guard Oxygone (never used)
>
> Final Coat wax
> 1 Auto Magic
> XP Express was #89
> Containing
> Mineral Spirit * * * * *64742-48-9
> Water * * * * * * * * * 7732-18-5
> Aluminum Silicates * * * 66402-68-4
> Silicon Fluid * * * * * 63148-62-9
> Carnuba Wax * * * * * * 8015-86-9
> Concerned about the silicon
>
> 2 Racers Egde Automotive polish
> Aliphatic Hydrogens 64742-96-7 and 8052-41-3
> Morpholine 110 91 8
> Stoddard solvents 8052 41 2
> 3 Then WX block for U
> 4 Granitize wax (never used)
> 5 Dri wash 11 guard waterless car wash and protective glase-ultra ion
> (Not used)
>
> All of the above have been recommended by one glider pilot or another.
>
> But which is the best?
>
> advice welcome
>
> --
> Max Birley

[Discus 44]

On Feb 11, 7:28*pm, Max Birley >
wrote:
> I have over the years accumulated all sorts of glider waxing products. I
> want to remove oxidized paint and to polish my glider (it has a
> polyurethane paint finish) to have a smooth finish and importantly to
> protect it against the very strong UV light in Texas
>
> There is a lot of talk on the net about wax/ polish that contains
> silicon which can cause bonding problems. I have read e mails that say
> that short chain silicon’s products are ok. But how do you tell ?
>
> I would appreciate any comments on the appropriateness of these
> products and any recommendations regarding better products especially
> if they can be used with a orbital buffer. The products need tobe
> available in the US.
>
> The products that I have are as follows
>
> Paint restoration and de oxidation products
> 1 3M Rubbing compound 05973
> 2 3M Imperial microfinishing compound
> 3 Racers Edge Premium Polymer Restorer 2 to remove the oxidized layer
> 4 Dri wash 11 guard Oxygone (never used)
>
> Final Coat wax
> 1 Auto Magic
> XP Express was #89
> Containing
> Mineral Spirit * * * * *64742-48-9
> Water * * * * * * * * * 7732-18-5
> Aluminum Silicates * * * 66402-68-4
> Silicon Fluid * * * * * 63148-62-9
> Carnuba Wax * * * * * * 8015-86-9
> Concerned about the silicon
>
> 2 Racers Egde Automotive polish
> Aliphatic Hydrogens 64742-96-7 and 8052-41-3
> Morpholine 110 91 8
> Stoddard solvents 8052 41 2
> 3 Then WX block for U
> 4 Granitize wax (never used)
> 5 Dri wash 11 guard waterless car wash and protective glase-ultra ion
> (Not used)
>
> All of the above have been recommended by one glider pilot or another.
>
> But which is the best?
>
> advice welcome
>
> --
> Max Birley

Max:
Like JJ I polish my ship using the 3M compound and a buffer. I have
tried a number of Meguires products and Mother's wax also.
Last years post to this group mentioned a wax I found to be very good
is Harly Wax. Here is the link: http://harlywax.com/HarlyWax/

Another good site for polishing products is Caswell: They have some
interesting polishing products. Here is their link: http://www.caswellplating.com/
They specialize in plating and polishing products.

Some new products they have for polishing paints that claim to have
no petroleum base, no silicones, no abrasives. I haven't tried these
yet, but they sound really good. I want to ask them specifically
about the effect or not on gel coat finishes first. The product I am
talking about is called "Glare polish." check it out.

[Andy[_1_]]

On Feb 11, 8:28*pm, Max Birley >
wrote:
> I have over the years accumulated all sorts of glider waxing products. I

> Silicon Fluid * * * * * 63148-62-9
> Carnuba Wax * * * * * * 8015-86-9
> Concerned about the silicon


Are you sure it contains silicon fluid? I have heard the concerns
about using silicone products but the silicon risk is new to me. Some
news reports suggest it (silicon) is now being used in breast
implants. Hope the huge demand for those does not push up the price of
semiconductors.

Andy

[John Scott[_2_]]

JJ,

What are your thoughts on the periodic use of a product like Dri'n'Wash
during the season after the carnuba waxing at the beginning of the season.

Thanks,
John

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Feb 12, 7:50*am, "John Scott" > wrote:
> JJ,
>
> What are your thoughts on the periodic use of a product like Dri'n'Wash
> during the season after the carnuba waxing at the beginning of the season..
>
> Thanks,
> John

I'm also interested in JJ's take on using any product that contains
silicone on gliders. I've read some things that have made me very
paranoid about what touches my glider.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 12, 10:41*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Feb 11, 8:28*pm, Max Birley >
> wrote:
>
> > I have over the years accumulated all sorts of glider waxing products. I
> > Silicon Fluid * * * * * 63148-62-9
> > Carnuba Wax * * * * * * 8015-86-9
> > Concerned about the silicon
>
> Are you sure it contains silicon fluid? *I have heard the concerns
> about using silicone products but the silicon risk is new to me. *Some
> news reports suggest it (silicon) is now being used in breast
> implants. Hope the huge demand for those does not push up the price of
> semiconductors.
>
> Andy

Silicon melts at 1410 deg C. This is the stuff in semiconductors and
solar cells.

Silicones are silicon-oxygen backbone polymers. This is the stuff in
waxes, polishes, wetting agents and boob jobs.

-T8 (who melts silicon for fun & profit and never puts silicones on
his glider)

[[email protected]]

On Feb 11, 10:28*pm, Max Birley <Max.Birley.
> wrote:
> I have over the years accumulated all sorts of glider waxing products. I
> want to remove oxidized paint and to polish my glider (it has a
> polyurethane paint finish) to have a smooth finish and importantly to
> protect it against the very strong UV light in Texas
>
> There is a lot of talk on the net about wax/ polish that contains
> silicon which can cause bonding problems. I have read e mails that say
> that short chain silicon’s products are ok. But how do you tell ?
>
> I would appreciate any comments on the appropriateness of these
> products and any recommendations regarding better products especially
> if they can be used with a orbital buffer. The products need tobe
> available in the US.
>
> The products that I have are as follows
>
> Paint restoration and de oxidation products
> 1 3M Rubbing compound 05973
> 2 3M Imperial microfinishing compound
> 3 Racers Edge Premium Polymer Restorer 2 to remove the oxidized layer
> 4 Dri wash 11 guard Oxygone (never used)
>
> Final Coat wax
> 1 Auto Magic
> XP Express was #89
> Containing
> Mineral Spirit * * * * *64742-48-9
> Water * * * * * * * * * 7732-18-5
> Aluminum Silicates * * * 66402-68-4
> Silicon Fluid * * * * * 63148-62-9
> Carnuba Wax * * * * * * 8015-86-9
> Concerned about the silicon
>
> 2 Racers Egde Automotive polish
> Aliphatic Hydrogens 64742-96-7 and 8052-41-3
> Morpholine 110 91 8
> Stoddard solvents 8052 41 2
> 3 Then WX block for U
> 4 Granitize wax (never used)
> 5 Dri wash 11 guard waterless car wash and protective glase-ultra ion
> (Not used)
>
> All of the above have been recommended by one glider pilot or another.
>
> But which is the best?
>
> advice welcome
>
> --
> Max Birley

I polish with various polishes. 3M has a full range depending on how
much cutting you need to do. I use rotary buffer with 10 inch buffing
pad , 4 inches wide. Orbitals are good for waxing and light polishing
but take forever if you have much oxydation to remove.
I like Mothers Gold. Shines good and smells great.
Good luck
UH

[Paul Lazenby]

>
>Silicon melts at 1410 deg C. This is the stuff in semiconductors and
>solar cells.
>
>Silicones are silicon-oxygen backbone polymers. This is the stuff in
>waxes, polishes, wetting agents and boob jobs.
>


Well blow me down, and thanks for the insight T8, I thought this was just
a different way of spelling the same stuff....!

Paul

[[email protected]]

On Feb 12, 3:00*pm, Paul Lazenby > wrote:
> >Silicon melts at 1410 deg C. *This is the stuff in semiconductors and
> >solar cells.
>
> >Silicones are silicon-oxygen backbone polymers. *This is the stuff in
> >waxes, polishes, wetting agents and boob jobs.
>
> Well blow me down, and thanks for the insight T8, I thought this was just
> a different way of spelling the same stuff....!
>
> Paul

This isn't too bad as an intro to silicone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone

Silicon here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon

[JJ Sinclair]

>
> I'm also interested in JJ's take on using any product that contains
> silicone on gliders. *I've read some things that have made me very
> paranoid about what touches my glider.

Its probably best to staw away from products that contain silicones,
but any repair involves a thorough sanding all around the repaired
area. I have never had any adhesion problems and that includes
glassing right up against fittings that were soaked in lubricants. I
grind until all the damage is removed and until I can no longer see
any lubricant in the structure, then scrub it down with acetone, dry
it well and start laying in the new material. Don't really see how
anything can survive the above to result in a problem.

On a completely unrelated subject, I'm getting back into R/
C.....................when I last flew we were driving a Babcock
escapement with a 3v transistor tone radio. WOW, have things changed,
but I have a couple of questions. How does a 'brush-less' electric
motor work and my radio says it is FM, but is crystal controlled, how
does that work?
Thanks and sorry for the unrelated questions, but I am flying an RC
Easy-Glider,
JJ

[Martin Gregorie[_4_]]

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:35:19 -0800, JJ Sinclair wrote:

> How does a 'brush-less' electric motor work
>
Its the inverse of a small DC motor: the coils are stationary and the
magnets are attached to the shaft. There's no commutator. Instead there's
an electronic controller that does the same switching job as a
commutator. Speed control is a bit different because changing the
throttle changes both the current the rate at which the controller
switches round the coils. Unlike a brushed motor, the RPM follows the
throttle setting rather than the load its driving: in aerobatics the RPM
stays more or less constant throughout a vertical maneuver.

You'll here talk of in-runners and out-runners. An in-runner has the
magnets inside the coils: they are smaller in diameter and more efficient
than out-runners, run faster and have less torque, so need gears to swing
a bigger, more efficient prop. An out-runner has the magnets outside the
coils: its larger diameter gives it more torque so it can drive a big
prop without needing gears.

Controllers look like a servo to the radio and accept the same type of
signal. The better ones do more than translate throttle position into
motor RPM - they have a soft-start capability to protect the power system
from a power surge if the throttle is suddenly slammed open and a safe
start facility to prevent the motor from suddenly starting if the radio
is switched on with the throttle open.

The Antares 20E uses an ungeared out-runner as its propeller hub: an
extremely simple, well-designed approach. This page has some good photos
and a cut-away diagram of their motor:

http://www.lange-flugzeugbau.de/htm/english/products/antares_20e/
propulsion.html

> and my radio says it is FM, but is crystal controlled, how does
> that work?
>
I think that means the transmitter's center frequency is set by the
crystal. Swapping crystals moves the center frequency to another channel.

I'm not an RC flyer. I fly Free Flight competition models but am learning
about electric power systems in order to try the F1Q class.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[JJ Sinclair]

Thanks Martin, that answers my questions. Last time I flew some 47
years ago with a rubber powered escapement and the "new" 3-volt
transistor radio that had just enough poop to trigger an
escapement.................loads of fun, one pulse gave you left
rudder, 2 pulses for right........but it worked and that was something
in 1962!
Cheers,
JJ

On Feb 13, 6:01*am, Martin Gregorie
> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:35:19 -0800, JJ Sinclair wrote:
> > How does a 'brush-less' electric motor work
>
> Its the inverse of a small DC motor: the coils are stationary and the
> magnets are attached to the shaft. There's no commutator. Instead there's
> an electronic controller that does the same switching job as a
> commutator. Speed control is a bit different because changing the
> throttle changes both the current the rate at which the controller
> switches round the coils. Unlike a brushed motor, the RPM follows the
> throttle setting rather than the load its driving: in aerobatics the RPM
> stays more or less constant throughout a vertical maneuver.
>
> You'll here talk of in-runners and out-runners. An in-runner has the
> magnets inside the coils: they are smaller in diameter and more efficient
> than out-runners, run faster and have less torque, so need gears to swing
> a bigger, more efficient prop. An out-runner has the magnets outside the
> coils: its larger diameter gives it more torque so it can drive a big
> prop without needing gears.
>
> Controllers look like a servo to the radio and accept the same type of
> signal. The better ones do more than translate throttle position into
> motor RPM - they have a soft-start capability to protect the power system
> from a power surge if the throttle is suddenly slammed open and a safe
> start facility to prevent the motor from suddenly starting if the radio
> is switched on with the throttle open.
>
> The Antares 20E uses an ungeared out-runner as its propeller hub: an
> extremely simple, well-designed approach. This page has some good photos
> and a cut-away diagram of their motor:
>
> http://www.lange-flugzeugbau.de/htm/english/products/antares_20e/
> propulsion.html
>
> > and my radio says it is FM, but is crystal controlled, how does
> > that work?
>
> I think that means the transmitter's center frequency is set by the
> crystal. Swapping crystals moves the center frequency to another channel.
>
> I'm not an RC flyer. I fly Free Flight competition models but am learning
> about electric power systems in order to try the F1Q class.
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |

[noel.wade]

JJ -

Are you getting into R/C Slope-Soaring, Dynamic-Soaring, or
Thermalling?

Now that I fly the "real thing" I've left my R/C gear in the closet
for almost 2 years. I have several 4-ch to 7-ch radios and a half-
dozen models (a couple are built, a couple still need to be built, and
a couple need to be repaired). I've been meaning to donate or sell
'em for cheap to someone who'll use them... The models range from 42"
slope-soaring flying wings, to a big 3-meter thermal ship (
http://warpedspace.netfirms.com/graphite/ ). Email me if you have any
interest. I'll even be driving down from Seattle to Warner Springs in
late April for the R12 contest, so I could drop them off if you're
willing to drive out towards I-5 to meet me.

Am posting this publicly in case JJ says no, but I've piqued the
interest of some other soaring pilot who also happens to fly R/C...

Take care,

--Noel

[Martin Gregorie[_4_]]

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 07:26:47 -0800, JJ Sinclair wrote:

> Last time I flew some 47 years
> ago with a rubber powered escapement and the "new" 3-volt transistor
> radio that had just enough poop to trigger an
> escapement.................
>
If you'd said 40 years, a Controlaire 5 receiver and Royal 'single
channel' servos that would be me too. I'd joined Wellington MAC about two
years earlier, so 40 years ago was when I dumped RC in favor of Free
Flight. We had a 5 day Nats, so I'd built a FF tow-line glider to have
something to do on the non-RC days and discovered thermals. I found them
much more fun than button pushing.

However, the old Royals were great: they worked just as you described:
'hold' for right, 'blip hold' for left and 'blip blip blip' to step the
three position throttle servo. The only difference from a traditional
escapement was that the servo had a small electric motor inside it in
place of the rubber.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Dan G]

Do any of the waxes described above (Mother's etc.) block UV? UV seems
to be the biggest killer of gelcoats, followed closely by damp (not so
much of a problem in Texas I imagine :-) ).


Dan

[Tim Mara[_2_]]

Wx/Block (weather block) and Racer's Edge both have high degree of UV
blockers
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page44.htm
tim

"Dan G" > wrote in message
...
> Do any of the waxes described above (Mother's etc.) block UV? UV seems
> to be the biggest killer of gelcoats, followed closely by damp (not so
> much of a problem in Texas I imagine :-) ).
>
>
> Dan