Where to live with soaring in mind? [Archive]

Tech Support

February 14th 09, 02:45 PM

Ex Pat

My daughter and son in law just settled in Redding, CA after looking
all over western US.
Wx
9 months of modest temp summer.
3 months of mild winter with rain and everything turns green
Population about 75K with most/all you need for comfortable living.
4+ hours from Sacremento & San Fran if want anything from big City.
Local airport has a training school teaching Foreign pilots for
Foreign Airlines. Lots of "student" type activity.
No idea if any glider activity but mountains not to far distant to
east. I'd guess it self launched not to distant from mountain soaring?
I'll ask my SIL if any soaring but may take a few days for answer.

You may get some comments on Redding and lots of other locations
from group.

Welcome back to the big PX even with Washington spending ur money like
a drunken sailor.

Big John.

************************************************** **********************

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:22:49 +0000, tienshanman
> wrote:

>
>I would appreciates some suggestions…..I am looking for the ideal place
>to live in the US – for soaring (I have not told my wife how massively
>weighted this particular criterion is!). I am overseas now and more
>than likely we will return to the US this summer. I have spent hours on
>the net researching places to live which have the best combination of
>access to good flying, good schools (3 elem school age kids), a
>critical mass of interesting people and culture and good weather. One
>thing I do not want to do is drive anything more that about 15 – 20 min
>to a glider field and I intend to buy a self launching glider if some
>sort so I could presumably fly from a small, welcoming GA airport. I am
>open to virtually any region. I’ve been gone for 14 yrs so I’m dealing
>with a blank slate. What places should I consider? Why?

[email protected]

February 14th 09, 04:49 PM

Tienshanman:

I'm a big Minden booster. I moved here 4 years ago for the soaring
and love the mountains, outdoor activities, and -- best of all -- the
soaring. Schools in Douglas County are the best in the state,
population growth is not explosive the way it is in other nice parts
of the US, people are friendly and it's generally a very nice place to
live. Reno is a 40 minute drive, San Francisco 4 hours, and did I
mention the soaring is the best in the world? Oh, and we don't have
California's tax situation. Write if there are any questions I can
answer specifically.

Fred LaSor
email = flasor AT frognet.net

[email protected]

February 14th 09, 04:50 PM

On Feb 14, 2:22*am, tienshanman <tienshanman.
> wrote:
<snip> ...places to live which have the best combination of
> access to good flying, good schools (3 elem school age kids), a
> critical mass of interesting people and culture and good weather. One
> thing I do not want to do is drive anything more that about 15 – 20 min
> to a glider field and I intend to buy a self launching glider if some
> sort so I could presumably fly from a small, welcoming GA airport.

Sounds like odds of finding a job in your chosen field isn't a major
criterion - congratulations!

You can soar pretty much anywhere in the US so you need to decide on
your minimum threshold for strength of conditions and soarable months
out of the year. If you want nearly year-round cross-country soaring
you are almost certainly talking about the desert southwest. My
experience is that some of the best soaring locations are more remote
and are far less developed/diverse in terms of cultural offerings and
public school systems - again this is a threshold question (as well as
personal taste - if you like rodeos you are in luck!). One way to
counter the trend for schools is to find University towns such as
Boulder, CO, Austin, TX and Tucson, AZ. I haven't spent much time in
Albuquerque, NM but there is some awesome soaring and I know great
people who fly there. There is a regional contest in Logan, UT near
Salt Lake City this summer that could put that city more on the
soaring map. Dallas, TX appears to have an active soaring community.
If you are okay with winter hibernation it opens up possibilities in
more northern states.

The 20-minute requirement could put serious constraints on your
housing choices in many locations unless you don't care about being at
an airport with an established soaring operation - this is an issue
for me because I prefer flying with friends. Even without a glider
operation finding an airport that close will require a tradeoff in
most places. When I lived in Tucson my home was on the outskirts of
town closest to the El Tiro glider field and it was still a 30-minute
drive.

Best of luck,

9B

If you want to stay married never, ever disclose access to soaring as
a consideration.

[email protected]

February 14th 09, 04:52 PM

On Feb 14, 8:49*am, wrote:
> Tienshanman:
>
> I'm a big Minden booster. *I moved here 4 years ago for the soaring
> and love the mountains, outdoor activities, and -- best of all -- the
> soaring. *Schools in Douglas County are the best in the state,
> population growth is not explosive the way it is in other nice parts
> of the US, people are friendly and it's generally a very nice place to
> live. *Reno is a 40 minute drive, San Francisco 4 hours, and did I
> mention the soaring is the best in the world? Oh, and we don't have
> California's tax situation. * Write if there are any questions I can
> answer specifically.
>
> Fred LaSor
> email = flasor AT frognet.net

Redding is about 100 miles from Montague, CA, lots of soaring
activity, also about 100 miles from Williams, CA Commercial operation
with lots of active pilots.

Turf Soaring and Estrella near Phoenix if you can stand the heat have
incredibly inexpensive housing prices right now (Phoenix Area)

[email protected]

February 14th 09, 05:01 PM

On Feb 14, 8:50*am, wrote:

I was considering a move to a community that I was told had the best
schools in the state about 5 years ago (not Minden - I have no idea
about the schools in Nevada). My kids shadowed classes and found the
local kids were more than a year behind them in many classes (at 5th
grade!). I couldn't figure it out until I discovered that the whole
state ranked pretty low nationally. Of course if your kids can't get
into college there'll be more funds available for that new
sailplane. ;-)

Caveat emptor.

[email protected]

February 14th 09, 05:07 PM

On Feb 14, 9:01*am, wrote:

If you want to get a survey of soaring conditions year-round, check
out OLC. It'll give you a decent sense for what's possible month-by-
month as well as an idea about where the more active sites are - at
least in terms of cross-country flying.

9B

Jp Mobo

February 14th 09, 05:30 PM

redding, sandwiched between a high fire hazard zone and a flood plain

http://www.ci.redding.ca.us/devserv/gis/download.html

desert southwest - dry, lifeless air not good for soaring

At 16:52 14 February 2009, wrote:
>On Feb 14, 8:49=A0am, wrote:
>> Tienshanman:
>>
>> I'm a big Minden booster. =A0I moved here 4 years ago for the soaring
>> and love the mountains, outdoor activities, and -- best of all -- the
>> soaring. =A0Schools in Douglas County are the best in the state,
>> population growth is not explosive the way it is in other nice parts
>> of the US, people are friendly and it's generally a very nice place
to
>> live. =A0Reno is a 40 minute drive, San Francisco 4 hours, and did I
>> mention the soaring is the best in the world? Oh, and we don't have
>> California's tax situation. =A0 Write if there are any questions I
can
>> answer specifically.
>>
>> Fred LaSor
>> email =3D flasor AT frognet.net
>
>Redding is about 100 miles from Montague, CA, lots of soaring
>activity, also about 100 miles from Williams, CA Commercial operation
>with lots of active pilots.
>
>Turf Soaring and Estrella near Phoenix if you can stand the heat have
>incredibly inexpensive housing prices right now (Phoenix Area)
>

Nyal Williams[_2_]

February 14th 09, 07:15 PM

Move to the Mid-west. Housing is cheap. Thermals don't go very high
(5000agl on the best days) so retrieves are cheap. Fly only seven months
of the year, so the entire bill is cheap. Lots of hangar flying in the
winter, and that's cheap.

At 17:30 14 February 2009, Jp Mobo wrote:
>
>
>
>redding, sandwiched between a high fire hazard zone and a flood plain
>
>http://www.ci.redding.ca.us/devserv/gis/download.html
>
>
>
>desert southwest - dry, lifeless air not good for soaring
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 16:52 14 February 2009, wrote:
>>On Feb 14, 8:49=A0am, wrote:
>>> Tienshanman:
>>>
>>> I'm a big Minden booster. =A0I moved here 4 years ago for the
soaring
>>> and love the mountains, outdoor activities, and -- best of all -- the
>>> soaring. =A0Schools in Douglas County are the best in the state,
>>> population growth is not explosive the way it is in other nice parts
>>> of the US, people are friendly and it's generally a very nice place
>to
>>> live. =A0Reno is a 40 minute drive, San Francisco 4 hours, and did I
>>> mention the soaring is the best in the world? Oh, and we don't have
>>> California's tax situation. =A0 Write if there are any questions I
>can
>>> answer specifically.
>>>
>>> Fred LaSor
>>> email =3D flasor AT frognet.net
>>
>>Redding is about 100 miles from Montague, CA, lots of soaring
>>activity, also about 100 miles from Williams, CA Commercial operation
>>with lots of active pilots.
>>
>>Turf Soaring and Estrella near Phoenix if you can stand the heat have
>>incredibly inexpensive housing prices right now (Phoenix Area)
>>
>

Nyal Williams[_2_]

February 14th 09, 07:15 PM

bumper

February 14th 09, 07:26 PM

"tienshanman" > wrote in message
...
>
> I would appreciates some suggestions…..I am looking for the ideal place
> to live in the US – for soaring

Take some time to research and visit the places mentioned.

I'm retired and fortunate to be able to live wherever I wish. I moved to
Minden, Nevada mostly for the superb soaring, but also for the scenic
beauty, recreational opportunities, and lots more. I've never seen a place
I'd rather live.

But, this sort of thing is one of those personal decisions that, in the end,
you'll need to decide for yourself. However, you do owe it to yourself to
visit Minden!

bumper
QV & MKIII
zz

bildan

February 14th 09, 07:27 PM

On Feb 14, 9:50*am, wrote:
> On Feb 14, 2:22*am, tienshanman > wrote:
>
> <snip> ...places to live which have the best combination of
>
> > access to good flying, good schools (3 elem school age kids), a
> > critical mass of interesting people and culture and good weather. One
> > thing I do not want to do is drive anything more that about 15 – 20 min
> > to a glider field and I intend to buy a self launching glider if some
> > sort so I could presumably fly from a small, welcoming GA airport.
>
> Sounds like odds of finding a job in your chosen field isn't a major
> criterion - congratulations!
>
> You can soar pretty much anywhere in the US so you need to decide on
> your minimum threshold for strength of conditions and soarable months
> out of the year. If you want nearly year-round cross-country soaring
> you are almost certainly talking about the desert southwest. My
> experience is that some of the best soaring locations are more remote
> and are far less developed/diverse in terms of cultural offerings and
> public school systems - again this is a threshold question (as well as
> personal taste - if you like rodeos you are in luck!). One way to
> counter the trend for schools is to find University towns such as
> Boulder, CO, Austin, TX and Tucson, AZ. I haven't spent much time in
> Albuquerque, NM but there is some awesome soaring and I know great
> people who fly there. There is a regional contest in Logan, UT near
> Salt Lake City this summer that could put that city more on the
> soaring map. Dallas, TX appears to have an active soaring community.
> If you are okay with winter hibernation it opens up possibilities in
> more northern states.
>
> The 20-minute requirement could put serious constraints on your
> housing choices in many locations unless you don't care about being at
> an airport with an established soaring operation - this is an issue
> for me because I prefer flying with friends. Even without a glider
> operation finding an airport that close will require a tradeoff in
> most places. When I lived in Tucson my home was on the outskirts of
> town closest to the El Tiro glider field and it was still a 30-minute
> drive.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> 9B
>
> If you want to stay married never, ever disclose access to soaring as
> a consideration.

Andy's list is pretty complete - I wouldn't criticize any of the
cities he mentions. I don't think anyone in Boulder drives more than
10 minutes to get to the airport - some just ride a bicycle.

US soaring weather is pretty darn good anywhere in the western
mountains and deserts with the exception of a thin strip along the
west coast which is usually under the influence of a marine inversion.

Tim Taylor

February 14th 09, 07:51 PM

On Feb 14, 12:15*pm, Nyal Williams > wrote:
> Move to the Mid-west. *Housing is cheap. Thermals don't go very high
> (5000agl on the best days) so retrieves are cheap. *Fly only seven months
> of the year, so the entire bill is cheap. *Lots of hangar flying in the
> winter, and that's cheap.
>
> At 17:30 14 February 2009, Jp Mobo wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >redding, sandwiched between a high fire hazard zone and a flood plain
>
> >http://www.ci.redding.ca.us/devserv/gis/download.html
>
> >desert southwest - dry, lifeless air not good for soaring
>
> >At 16:52 14 February 2009, wrote:
> >>On Feb 14, 8:49=A0am, wrote:
> >>> Tienshanman:
>
> >>> I'm a big Minden booster. =A0I moved here 4 years ago for the
> soaring
> >>> and love the mountains, outdoor activities, and -- best of all -- the
> >>> soaring. =A0Schools in Douglas County are the best in the state,
> >>> population growth is not explosive the way it is in other nice parts
> >>> of the US, people are friendly and it's generally a very nice place
> >to
> >>> live. =A0Reno is a 40 minute drive, San Francisco 4 hours, and did I
> >>> mention the soaring is the best in the world? Oh, and we don't have
> >>> California's tax situation. =A0 Write if there are any questions I
> >can
> >>> answer specifically.
>
> >>> Fred LaSor
> >>> email =3D flasor AT frognet.net
>
> >>Redding is about 100 miles from Montague, CA, lots of soaring
> >>activity, also about 100 miles from Williams, CA *Commercial operation
> >>with lots of active pilots.
>
> >>Turf Soaring and Estrella near Phoenix if you can stand the heat have
> >>incredibly inexpensive housing prices right now (Phoenix Area)

Ah yes, Midwest soaring. I spent "Two years, Two months, Too long" in
Minnesota, followed by nearly five years too long in Missouri. The
only good part about the two was the pilots I got to know while
there. The soaring was marginal and unpredictable and the season was
short. Never did get into ice fishing (or is it ice drinking?) in MN.

My criteria was south and west of MN and a true college town to get
the small town atmosphere coupled with all the cultural and health
amenities of larger cites. My commute to work is 1.1 miles and less
than 4 miles to the airport. I think college towns are a big plus for
long term livability.

Can't complain I ended up in one of the best and best kept secrets of
soaring in the world. Thermals to 18K, hundreds of miles of ridge and
wave.

Tim

Mike the Strike

February 14th 09, 08:49 PM

You have to be west if you want to fly thermals. How far south
depends on how you like your winters. Do you want to ski, or prefer
hiking or some other activity when you're not flying?

Your other requirements are more difficult - culture and critical
mass.

I may be viewing this from the perspective of an ex-patriot pommy, but
I don't find the culture in Phoenix to be all that wonderful and
although I have never lived near Minden, Nevada to me brings up images
of gambling and whores, rather than culture. I'm not sure what you
would describe as a critical mass, either. Despite its 5 million
population, Phoenix doesn't really have many soaring pilots - perhaps
only half a dozen really active ones. Minden and Moriarty score
there, however, with Tucson a bit behind. However, in none of these
places will you be less than about 30 minutes from the field.

The only one that scores on all these areas seems to be Boulder. A
nice culture (lots of well-educated folks), a critical mass of soaring
pilots and an airfield smack downtown that you could walk or bicycle
to. The downside there is the long tow (or self-launch) to the
mountains and the nasty winters.

The best spring and fall flying is probably in Arizona and New
Mexico. The best summer soaring further north in Colorado, Utah and
Nevada.

As others have said, check OLC to see where the cross-country flights
are and how many ships are active - that'll give you a starting
point. Once you have a short-list, I'd suggest you spend some time at
each to get the feel of the places.

Mike

bumper

February 14th 09, 09:35 PM

"Mike the Strike" > wrote in message
news:7a711894-1a6a-4ad8-> although I have never lived near Minden, Nevada to
me brings up images
> of gambling and whores, rather than culture. >
> Mike

Now for clarification, when I posted "recreational opportunities", I was not
referring to either of the above!

I put a quarter in one of them slot machines once . . . didn't even get a
ball of gum out, so I figure they are all a rip-off. Wife won't let me do
the other, so will content myself with soaring, flying the Husky, bicycling
etc.

Minden, NV (Douglas County) is not about those things either. It's a
conservative area as well, which suits me fine.

bumper
zz
QV and MKIII

Fred Blair

February 14th 09, 09:57 PM

OK Tim, where do you live, it sounds great?
"Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 14, 12:15 pm, Nyal Williams > wrote:
> Move to the Mid-west. Housing is cheap. Thermals don't go very high
> (5000agl on the best days) so retrieves are cheap. Fly only seven months
> of the year, so the entire bill is cheap. Lots of hangar flying in the
> winter, and that's cheap.
>
> At 17:30 14 February 2009, Jp Mobo wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >redding, sandwiched between a high fire hazard zone and a flood plain
>
> >http://www.ci.redding.ca.us/devserv/gis/download.html
>
> >desert southwest - dry, lifeless air not good for soaring
>
> >At 16:52 14 February 2009, wrote:
> >>On Feb 14, 8:49=A0am, wrote:
> >>> Tienshanman:
>
> >>> I'm a big Minden booster. =A0I moved here 4 years ago for the
> soaring
> >>> and love the mountains, outdoor activities, and -- best of all -- the
> >>> soaring. =A0Schools in Douglas County are the best in the state,
> >>> population growth is not explosive the way it is in other nice parts
> >>> of the US, people are friendly and it's generally a very nice place
> >to
> >>> live. =A0Reno is a 40 minute drive, San Francisco 4 hours, and did I
> >>> mention the soaring is the best in the world? Oh, and we don't have
> >>> California's tax situation. =A0 Write if there are any questions I
> >can
> >>> answer specifically.
>
> >>> Fred LaSor
> >>> email =3D flasor AT frognet.net
>
> >>Redding is about 100 miles from Montague, CA, lots of soaring
> >>activity, also about 100 miles from Williams, CA Commercial operation
> >>with lots of active pilots.
>
> >>Turf Soaring and Estrella near Phoenix if you can stand the heat have
> >>incredibly inexpensive housing prices right now (Phoenix Area)

Ah yes, Midwest soaring. I spent "Two years, Two months, Too long" in
Minnesota, followed by nearly five years too long in Missouri. The
only good part about the two was the pilots I got to know while
there. The soaring was marginal and unpredictable and the season was
short. Never did get into ice fishing (or is it ice drinking?) in MN.

My criteria was south and west of MN and a true college town to get
the small town atmosphere coupled with all the cultural and health
amenities of larger cites. My commute to work is 1.1 miles and less
than 4 miles to the airport. I think college towns are a big plus for
long term livability.

Can't complain I ended up in one of the best and best kept secrets of
soaring in the world. Thermals to 18K, hundreds of miles of ridge and
wave.

Tim

[email protected]

February 14th 09, 10:42 PM

On Feb 14, 1:57*pm, "Fred Blair" >
wrote:
> OK Tim, where do you live, it sounds great?"Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Feb 14, 12:15 pm, Nyal Williams > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Move to the Mid-west. Housing is cheap. Thermals don't go very high
> > (5000agl on the best days) so retrieves are cheap. Fly only seven months
> > of the year, so the entire bill is cheap. Lots of hangar flying in the
> > winter, and that's cheap.
>
> > At 17:30 14 February 2009, Jp Mobo wrote:
>
> > >redding, sandwiched between a high fire hazard zone and a flood plain
>
> > >http://www.ci.redding.ca.us/devserv/gis/download.html
>
> > >desert southwest - dry, lifeless air not good for soaring
>
> > >At 16:52 14 February 2009, wrote:
> > >>On Feb 14, 8:49=A0am, wrote:
> > >>> Tienshanman:
>
> > >>> I'm a big Minden booster. =A0I moved here 4 years ago for the
> > soaring
> > >>> and love the mountains, outdoor activities, and -- best of all -- the
> > >>> soaring. =A0Schools in Douglas County are the best in the state,
> > >>> population growth is not explosive the way it is in other nice parts
> > >>> of the US, people are friendly and it's generally a very nice place
> > >to
> > >>> live. =A0Reno is a 40 minute drive, San Francisco 4 hours, and did I
> > >>> mention the soaring is the best in the world? Oh, and we don't have
> > >>> California's tax situation. =A0 Write if there are any questions I
> > >can
> > >>> answer specifically.
>
> > >>> Fred LaSor
> > >>> email =3D flasor AT frognet.net
>
> > >>Redding is about 100 miles from Montague, CA, lots of soaring
> > >>activity, also about 100 miles from Williams, CA Commercial operation
> > >>with lots of active pilots.
>
> > >>Turf Soaring and Estrella near Phoenix if you can stand the heat have
> > >>incredibly inexpensive housing prices right now (Phoenix Area)
>
> Ah yes, Midwest soaring. I spent "Two years, Two months, Too long" in
> Minnesota, followed by nearly five years too long in Missouri. *The
> only good part about the two was the pilots I got to know while
> there. *The soaring was marginal and unpredictable and the season was
> short. *Never did get into ice fishing (or is it ice drinking?) in MN.
>
> My criteria was south and west of MN and a true college town to get
> the small town atmosphere coupled with all the cultural and health
> amenities of larger cites. My commute to work is 1.1 miles and less
> than 4 miles to the airport. *I think college towns are a big plus for
> long term livability.
>
> Can't complain I ended up in one of the best and best kept secrets of
> soaring in the world. *Thermals to 18K, hundreds of miles of ridge and
> wave.
>
> Tim

Maybe it is Parowan, right next to a great ski resort too I understand

Tim Taylor

February 14th 09, 11:47 PM

On Feb 14, 2:57*pm, "Fred Blair" >
wrote:
> OK Tim, where do you live, it sounds great?"Tim Taylor" > wrote in message

Sorry Fred, was trying to keep it a secret (at least until Region 9
North this summer).

Logan, Utah home of Utah State University in Northern Utah about 80
miles north of Salt Lake City.

You can view the area and turnpoints on the WW TP Exchange by clicking
on the google maps link or the Google Earth link. The turnpoints were
just posted this week.

Logan is consistently on the safest small cities list (http://
www.articlesbase.com/real-estate-articles/where-are-the-safest-places-to-live-in-the-united-states-84379.html).

Also best place to retire young (http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/
article/102845/best-places-to-retire-young&.pf=retirement).

Great small town with SLC only an hour and a half away if you really
need to visit something bigger.

Search this group for "Ridge Running in Northern Utah" and you can
see the ridge potential. We don't bother to rig if you can't do 300K,
a good day is 500K and I expect to see a 1000K out of Logan in the
next two years. You can seach OLC for Logan and see many flights over
the last few years.

The airport is a former WWII base similar to Minden with three runways
(two active). Mountains are less than four miles from the airport,
yet many good fields to land in if needed. This summers contest will
be about a week after the peak of the season, but it should still be
very good. The conditions peak about the last week of July to first
week of August. We are north of the monsoon line so don't usually get
the OD of southern UT and Arizona.

Greg Arnold[_2_]

February 15th 09, 12:06 AM

Tim Taylor wrote:
> On Feb 14, 2:57 pm, "Fred Blair" >
> wrote:
>> OK Tim, where do you live, it sounds great?"Tim Taylor" > wrote in message
>
> Sorry Fred, was trying to keep it a secret (at least until Region 9
> North this summer).
>
> Logan, Utah home of Utah State University in Northern Utah about 80
> miles north of Salt Lake City.
>
> You can view the area and turnpoints on the WW TP Exchange by clicking
> on the google maps link or the Google Earth link. The turnpoints were
> just posted this week.
>
> Logan is consistently on the safest small cities list (http://
> www.articlesbase.com/real-estate-articles/where-are-the-safest-places-to-live-in-the-united-states-84379.html).
>
> Also best place to retire young (http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/
> article/102845/best-places-to-retire-young&.pf=retirement).
>
> Great small town with SLC only an hour and a half away if you really
> need to visit something bigger.
>
> Search this group for "Ridge Running in Northern Utah" and you can
> see the ridge potential. We don't bother to rig if you can't do 300K,
> a good day is 500K and I expect to see a 1000K out of Logan in the
> next two years. You can seach OLC for Logan and see many flights over
> the last few years.
>
> The airport is a former WWII base similar to Minden with three runways
> (two active). Mountains are less than four miles from the airport,
> yet many good fields to land in if needed. This summers contest will
> be about a week after the peak of the season, but it should still be
> very good. The conditions peak about the last week of July to first
> week of August. We are north of the monsoon line so don't usually get
> the OD of southern UT and Arizona.
>

Is the soaring as good as Parowan?

Jim Beckman[_2_]

February 15th 09, 12:30 AM

At 21:35 14 February 2009, bumper wrote:
>
>I put a quarter in one of them slot machines once . . . didn't even get
a
>ball of gum out, so I figure they are all a rip-off. Wife won't let me
do
>the other, so will content myself with soaring, flying the Husky,
>bicycling
>etc.
>
>Minden, NV (Douglas County) is not about those things either. It's a
>conservative area as well, which suits me fine.

It all depends on what the meaning of the word "culture" is. Keep in
mind that if you pick a conservative enough region of Nevada, you can have
as many wives as you want. Or as many as you can stand.

Jim Beckman

Tim Taylor

February 15th 09, 12:45 AM

On Feb 14, 5:06*pm, Greg Arnold > wrote:

> Is the soaring as good as Parowan?

Greg,

Yes and no. If you are asking are the thermals as strong, Logan tends
to average 6 to 10 knot thermals, from my experience Parowan during
the peak of the year is about 8 to 12 knots. Logan has better ridge
sections, about 300 miles total over several ranges. Parowan has some
ridges that work, but not in sections that can be used exclusively as
ridge. Logan is also easier to utilize wave with the Wasatch Front
generating consistent wave from fall to spring.

Each site has positives and negatives and slightly different season.
Parowan tends to go into monsoon conditions in July and can be very
volatile. Logan is usually just north of the monsoon line and gets
fewer of the OD days. Both are in the great-basin so are strong
soaring sites and should never be taken for granted by any pilot. I
have landed in 40 knot blowout of storms at Logan as well as Parowan.

From a safety standpoint Logan has more landable areas and the airport
is much safer than Parowan. Anyone who has come home to a
thunderstorm at Parowan worries about a strong crosswind with no
option but the fields or dry lake bed west of town. All three of
Logan's runways are landable and the main runway is 9000 feet long.
Logan is also 1500 feet lower at 4500 feet msl.

I like both sites, each has great soaring compared to almost anyplace
in the world. For crews I think they will find Logan to one of the
nicest soaring towns of anyplace we have contests. There are not too
many soaring sites you go to live plays and opera in the evening and
spend your days hiking in national forest only 10 minutes away.

Mike Schumann

February 15th 09, 03:02 AM

If you are interested in the Midwest, look at Northfield MN, the home of
Carleton College. A wonderful small town, with an Ivy League caliber
college within 5 miles of Stanton Airport, the home of the Minnesota Soaring
Club.

The soaring in the summer is great. There have been some great X-Country
flights, including a club member who flew a downwind dash from Stanton to
Gary IN in a 1-26.

The winters are a pain, but that's what keeps the riff-raft out.

No pain, no gain.

Mike Schumann

"Nyal Williams" > wrote in message
...
> Move to the Mid-west. Housing is cheap. Thermals don't go very high
> (5000agl on the best days) so retrieves are cheap. Fly only seven months
> of the year, so the entire bill is cheap. Lots of hangar flying in the
> winter, and that's cheap.
>
> At 17:30 14 February 2009, Jp Mobo wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>redding, sandwiched between a high fire hazard zone and a flood plain
>>
>>http://www.ci.redding.ca.us/devserv/gis/download.html
>>
>>
>>
>>desert southwest - dry, lifeless air not good for soaring
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 16:52 14 February 2009, wrote:
>>>On Feb 14, 8:49=A0am, wrote:
>>>> Tienshanman:
>>>>
>>>> I'm a big Minden booster. =A0I moved here 4 years ago for the
> soaring
>>>> and love the mountains, outdoor activities, and -- best of all -- the
>>>> soaring. =A0Schools in Douglas County are the best in the state,
>>>> population growth is not explosive the way it is in other nice parts
>>>> of the US, people are friendly and it's generally a very nice place
>>to
>>>> live. =A0Reno is a 40 minute drive, San Francisco 4 hours, and did I
>>>> mention the soaring is the best in the world? Oh, and we don't have
>>>> California's tax situation. =A0 Write if there are any questions I
>>can
>>>> answer specifically.
>>>>
>>>> Fred LaSor
>>>> email =3D flasor AT frognet.net
>>>
>>>Redding is about 100 miles from Montague, CA, lots of soaring
>>>activity, also about 100 miles from Williams, CA Commercial operation
>>>with lots of active pilots.
>>>
>>>Turf Soaring and Estrella near Phoenix if you can stand the heat have
>>>incredibly inexpensive housing prices right now (Phoenix Area)
>>>
>>

Tech Support

February 15th 09, 03:20 AM

Jim

I thought the criteria was as many as you can afford :o)

Big John

************************************************** *************

On 15 Feb 2009 00:30:03 GMT, Jim Beckman >
wrote:

>At 21:35 14 February 2009, bumper wrote:
>>
>>I put a quarter in one of them slot machines once . . . didn't even get
>a
>>ball of gum out, so I figure they are all a rip-off. Wife won't let me
>do
>>the other, so will content myself with soaring, flying the Husky,
>>bicycling
>>etc.
>>
>>Minden, NV (Douglas County) is not about those things either. It's a
>>conservative area as well, which suits me fine.
>
>It all depends on what the meaning of the word "culture" is. Keep in
>mind that if you pick a conservative enough region of Nevada, you can have
>as many wives as you want. Or as many as you can stand.
>
>Jim Beckman
>

tienshanman

February 15th 09, 04:50 AM

Tim,

I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to really assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS member. I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was wondering if you could comment on this.

[email protected]

February 15th 09, 02:33 PM

On Feb 14, 8:50*pm, tienshanman <tienshanman.
> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to really
> assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS member.
> I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was
> wondering if you could comment on this.
>
> --
> tienshanman

possible that is so in the smaller towns, SLC is 50% non LDS.
Although as a non-member they would really put the rush on you
socially if you evidenced any interest at all.

Mike the Strike

February 15th 09, 02:59 PM

I lived in Salt Lake City for six years. It's a delightful town with
lots of cultural activities. We found life a bit polarized, as is
generally reported. Members of the LDS church have such busy lives
associated with church activities that we found few mutual social
opportunities. Non-members typically do their own things. This is
also true of older schoolchildren.

Having said this, we made more friends in Salt Lake than we have in
any other city in the USA. We enjoyed the close proximity of outdoor
activities (skiing and hiking) and the soaring is not too shabby.

Be aware that winters can be cold and drawn out and mid-winter
inversions can produce a dreadful unhealthy smog over the entire
valley.

The liquor laws used to be extremely interesting (or stupid, depending
on your perspective), but have improved since the winter Olympics.

Mike

[email protected]

February 15th 09, 03:44 PM

How about Ridgecrest/Inyokern California? Flying is possible year
round and IYK is only 15 minutes from Ridgecrest. The climate is hot
in the summer but it makes for some great soaring. The challenge is
that the only real employer is the naval base at China Lake. Of
course there are jobs with the local banks and school district but
everything is this town revolves around the Navy.

MojavePilot

February 15th 09, 04:24 PM

Soaring in the San Gabriel mountains, located in the high desert of
Southern California is excellent; ridge, wave, thermal, shear...often
in combination on the same day. The San Gabriel chain runs east-west,
across the prevailing onshore from the south.
Crystal Airport 46CN, zip code 93544, has an FBO, soaring school & a
sailplane repair facility. It's a private airport, but obviously
glider pilots are welcome, & it's OK to fly your power plane in.
Office SCSA (661) 944-1090.
You can buy a near-new house within 50 miles for $100,000. A tract
house in Lake Los Angeles for $50,000. Or live in the country club for
$250,000. I don't know about schools, but the teenagers who serve as
line staff grew up around here & they're alright. George & Robert at
the sailplane repair both have children & can advise on schools.
The flying culture out here is traditional; straight out of 'The Right
Stuff'. Edwards Air Force pilots come out to fly gliders. You'll meet
old guys with 25,000 hours tinkering on their homebuilt racers at
nearby Apple Valley airport, KAPV. You can rent a 7AC Champ to explore
the mountains. There's an aerobatics box; watch world class experts
like Mike Mangold practice routines.
SCSA has fine gliders; DG's & Grobs for rent, including a brand-new
DG-1000.
Los Angeles is only an hour away, if you prefer the city; there are
plenty of major stores out here in the high desert now.
Good luck,
Jim

Ian Cant

February 15th 09, 04:45 PM

At 00:45 15 February 2009, Tim Taylor wrote:
Anyone who has come home to a
>thunderstorm at Parowan worries about a strong crosswind with no
>option but the fields or dry lake bed west of town.

About three years ago I walked that lake bed. It is big, flat, hard -
just llike a natural airfield, and with easy access to the road.

A few days later I chose to land there because of a blowout at Parowan and
an imminent thunderstorm bearing down from the north. My crew [ the glider
owner, bless his tolerant heart] was on the way before I landed. Landing
was just fine, and the first little plop of rain hit the windshield as I
unstrapped. Two minutes later it was a downpour. When retrieve arrived
[maybe ten minutes at the very most] we considered it best to leave the
trailer by the road and haul the glider to the lake edge for disassembly.

That dry hard surface turns to a gluey quicksand as soon as it is wet. By
the time we reached the edge of the lake I was walking wing on 6-inch
stilts of mud, the tow SUV was up above the hubs in mud, and the 1-26 was
skidding along because the wheel well was completely filled with mud.

We retrieved and washed off the worst. Next morning, that mud had dried
back to the smooth, flat, hard stuff again - it took a careful chisel to
remove some of it.

Then when we were done the FBO told us that the previous year a Cessna had
spent months stuck in the lake bed waiting for the next thunderstorm to
liquefy the surface again before it could be rescued.

Be warned. Not all lake beds are created equal.

Ian

Dennis[_3_]

February 15th 09, 08:16 PM

On Feb 16, 12:33*am, " >
wrote:
> On Feb 14, 8:50*pm, tienshanman <tienshanman.
>
> > wrote:
> > Tim,
>
> > I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to really
> > assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS member.
> > I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was
> > wondering if you could comment on this.
>
> > --
> > tienshanman
>
> possible that is so in the smaller towns, SLC is 50% non LDS.
> Although as a non-member they would really put the rush on you
> socially if you evidenced any interest at all.

How about Aqua Dulce in the Santa Clarita Valley, about one hour north
of Los Angeles. Great local airport. One hour drive north to
Tehachapi and Calif. City and even close to Pearblossom, from which
originate some of the longest flights in the country (world).--Dennis

Barny

February 15th 09, 09:10 PM

Here's a summary of OLC winter flights 11/1/2008-2/14/2009, for what
it's worth:
Seminole Lake, FL 50
Warner Springs, CA 37
Moriarty, Albuquerque, NM 28
TSA, Dallas, TX 28
El Tiro, Tucson, AZ 26
Williams, CA 18
Chilhowee, TN 18
Grass Roots, Saratoga, FL 18
Hemet-Ryan, CA 17
Marion Co-Brown, GA? 11
Hollister, CA 11
Santa Ynez, 10
Byron, CA 8
Soar Club Huston, TX 8
Pierson, FL 6
FLF 4
Jean - Las Vegas, NV 2
Estrella, AZ 2
Mountain Valley, CA 1
Aqua Duice, 1
Pleasant Valley, Turf, AZ 1
Minden, NV 1
Air Sailing, 1

Barny

February 15th 09, 09:21 PM

This is an interesting thread for warm weather dreamers like me.
Here's the number of OLC winter flights 11/1/2008-2/14/2009.
Unfortunately many pilots don't post on OLC, so these stats are not
very scientific, but it shows some do fly year round:
Seminole Lake, FL 50
Warner Springs, CA 37
Moriarty, Albuquerque, 28
TSA, Dallas, TX 28
El Tiro, Tucson, AZ 26
Williams, CA 18
Chilhowee, TN 18
Saratoga, FL 18
Hemet-Ryan, CA 17
Marion Co-Brown 11
Hollister, CA 11
Santa Ynez, CA 10
Byron, CA 8
Soar Club Huston, TX 8
Pierson, FL 6
FLF 4
Jean - Las Vegas, NV 2
Estrella, AZ 2
Mountain Valley, CA 1
Aqua Duice, 1
Pleasant Valley,AZ 1
Minden, NV 1
Air Sailing 1
~Barny

danlj

February 15th 09, 09:23 PM

On Feb 14, 9:02*pm, "Mike Schumann" <mike-nos...@traditions-
nospam.com> wrote:
> If you are interested in the Midwest, look at Northfield MN, the home of
> Carleton College. *A wonderful small town, with an Ivy League caliber
> college within 5 miles of Stanton Airport, the home of the Minnesota Soaring
> Club.
>
> The soaring in the summer is great. *There have been some great X-Country
> flights, including a club member who flew a downwind dash from Stanton to
> Gary IN in a 1-26.
>
> The winters are a pain, but that's what keeps the riff-raft out.
>
> No pain, no gain.
>
> Mike Schumann
>
> "Nyal Williams" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Move to the Mid-west. *Housing is cheap. Thermals don't go very high
> > (5000agl on the best days) so retrieves are cheap. *Fly only seven months
> > of the year, so the entire bill is cheap. *Lots of hangar flying in the
> > winter, and that's cheap.
>
> > At 17:30 14 February 2009, Jp Mobo wrote:
>
> >>redding, sandwiched between a high fire hazard zone and a flood plain
>
> >>http://www.ci.redding.ca.us/devserv/gis/download.html
>
> >>desert southwest - dry, lifeless air not good for soaring
>
> >>At 16:52 14 February 2009, wrote:
> >>>On Feb 14, 8:49=A0am, wrote:
> >>>> Tienshanman:
>
> >>>> I'm a big Minden booster. =A0I moved here 4 years ago for the
> > soaring
> >>>> and love the mountains, outdoor activities, and -- best of all -- the
> >>>> soaring. =A0Schools in Douglas County are the best in the state,
> >>>> population growth is not explosive the way it is in other nice parts
> >>>> of the US, people are friendly and it's generally a very nice place
> >>to
> >>>> live. =A0Reno is a 40 minute drive, San Francisco 4 hours, and did I
> >>>> mention the soaring is the best in the world? Oh, and we don't have
> >>>> California's tax situation. =A0 Write if there are any questions I
> >>can
> >>>> answer specifically.
>
> >>>> Fred LaSor
> >>>> email =3D flasor AT frognet.net
>
> >>>Redding is about 100 miles from Montague, CA, lots of soaring
> >>>activity, also about 100 miles from Williams, CA *Commercial operation
> >>>with lots of active pilots.
>
> >>>Turf Soaring and Estrella near Phoenix if you can stand the heat have
> >>>incredibly inexpensive housing prices right now (Phoenix Area)

Right. The point the folks are obviously making is that life is not
100% soaring, especially for the family. From May through August,the
upper midwest gets frequent after-coldfront-highs with very good
thermal soaring. From mid-October through March, you can trailer the
glider somewhere else, while your wife and kids enjoy the good
schools, topnotch medical care, and friendly social culture of the
upper midwest (they don't call it "Minnesota Nice" without reason,
though this culture isn't for everyone). And Northfield, in
particular, is just a half hour away from all the culture of the Twin
Cities: theater and art and jazz and classical music and opera and a
broad array of popular music, multiple colleges, and even some
recreation. The downhill skiing is terrible, but lakes are abundant.

On the other hand, Logan is near some of the most wonderful mountain
recreation in the country, does have a college, and Mormons are
generally well-behaved, if you don't mind the cultural and theological
stiffness.

There are many places you can soar, and if you go to a "greatest"
soaring site, and your family is unhappy, the soaring won't
matter ...or maybe the family will decide *you* don't matter... :)

There's no perfect choice, but if you make your family content near a
soaring place, the mean and standard deviation of happiness in your
family is likely to be close to optimal.

Danl J

Greg Arnold[_2_]

February 15th 09, 09:39 PM

It has been a lousy winter in Southern California. At this time two
years ago, Santa Ynez had 47 flights averaging 115 km.

Barny wrote:
> Here's a summary of OLC winter flights 11/1/2008-2/14/2009, for what
> it's worth:
> Seminole Lake, FL 50
> Warner Springs, CA 37
> Moriarty, Albuquerque, NM 28
> TSA, Dallas, TX 28
> El Tiro, Tucson, AZ 26
> Williams, CA 18
> Chilhowee, TN 18
> Grass Roots, Saratoga, FL 18
> Hemet-Ryan, CA 17
> Marion Co-Brown, GA? 11
> Hollister, CA 11
> Santa Ynez, 10
> Byron, CA 8
> Soar Club Huston, TX 8
> Pierson, FL 6
> FLF 4
> Jean - Las Vegas, NV 2
> Estrella, AZ 2
> Mountain Valley, CA 1
> Aqua Duice, 1
> Pleasant Valley, Turf, AZ 1
> Minden, NV 1
> Air Sailing, 1

Barny

February 15th 09, 09:46 PM

This is an interesting thread for warm weather dreamers like me.
I counted 2009 OLC flights (minus October) for warm parts of Regions
9-12. Many pilots don't post on OLC, so these stats are not very
scientific, but it shows there is year round flying.
Seminole Lake, FL 50
Warner Springs, CA 37
Moriarty, Albuquerque 28
TSA, Dallas, TX 28
El Tiro, Tucson, AZ 26
Boulder, CO (not warm) 22
Williams, CA 18
Chilhowee, TN 18
Saratoga, FL 18
Hemet-Ryan, CA 17
Marion Co-Brown 11
Hollister, CA 11
Santa Ynez, CA 10
Byron, CA 8
Soar Club Huston, TX 8
Bermuda High, SC 6
Alamogordo-white san 3
Jean - Las Vegas, NV 2
Estrella, AZ 2
Mountain Valley, CA 1
Aqua Duice, 1
Pleasant Valley,AZ 1
Minden, NV 1
Air Sailing 1
~Barny

Tim Taylor

February 15th 09, 10:39 PM

On Feb 14, 9:50*pm, tienshanman <tienshanman.
> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to really
> assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS member.
> I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was
> wondering if you could comment on this.
>
> --
> tienshanman

Tienshanman,

As others have commented each place has pluses and minuses. We came
to Utah as non LDS about nine years ago. As with most states each
community is different, in any state there are places you would live
and places you would choose not to. As I said before I prefer
“college” towns because they tend to have a social atmosphere that is
different from most other towns. We had two children that were 4 and
10 at the time so it was a concern of ours, as well as how we would
like it here.

As it turn out it was a non-issue for the most part. Logan has a high
enough percent of population of non-LDS that we were able to find out
own circle of friends without any problems and our children have done
the same. As Mike said there is limited interaction between the LDS
and others mostly due to the time constraints that their religion
places on them. We do not have anyone trying to convert us to their
religion or other things like that. Logan has most of faiths
represented from the Catholic Church to a Synagogue. There are
Lutherans, Methodists and Buddhists.

For me the three areas of the state I would be most comfortable are
Logan, Salt Lake City and St. George. I don’t think I would want to
live in one of the small towns out of the Wasatch front and would
likely not want to live in the Prove/Orem area. But I grew up in
California and am considered a liberal, especially in Utah.

We feel much more comfortable here than in Minnesota, could not take
the “Minnesota Nice” that to the locals in a positive term, but to
outsiders is a negative. When it gets cold in the winter we always
say to ourselves it could be worse, we could be in Minnesota.

Utah has a reputation of being odd, but I think most of it was earned
twenty to thirty years ago; there have been many changes even in the
last nine years that I have been here. We will soon see a brew pub or
two in Logan and hopefully you won’t have to join a club to go in a
bar by next year.

We love the outdoors and being active. I live less than a mile from
the national forest boundary and a mile from a major university. The
local ski resort is only 27 miles away and I can get a season pass for
about $250 a year. Compare that price to what you would pay anywhere
else. One positive in Utah for the non-LDS is that the LDS can’t do
activities on Sunday so the ski resorts, hiking and biking trails,
movie theaters, etc are empty on Sundays. If we have more than a
minute wait in a lift line it is time to move to a different lift.
And yes it is the best snow on earth.

My top list in the west includes Boulder, CO, Fort Collins, CO, Logan,
UT, Albuquerque, NM, Ashland, OR/Montague, CA, Paradise/Chico, CA,
Reno, NV, PASCO, WA and Flagstaff, AZ. I picked the job site and
family friendly part first, but was looking at the soaring
possibilities when I came to Logan. Having a tow available was what
sealed the decision. I got lucky that the soaring was better than I
ever imagined and I am still learning about the potential each year.

Greg Arnold[_2_]

February 16th 09, 12:20 AM

tienshanman wrote:
> I would appreciates some suggestions…..I am looking for the ideal place
> to live in the US – for soaring (I have not told my wife how massively
> weighted this particular criterion is!). I am overseas now and more
> than likely we will return to the US this summer. I have spent hours on
> the net researching places to live which have the best combination of
> access to good flying, good schools (3 elem school age kids), a
> critical mass of interesting people and culture and good weather. One
> thing I do not want to do is drive anything more that about 15 – 20 min
> to a glider field and I intend to buy a self launching glider if some
> sort so I could presumably fly from a small, welcoming GA airport. I am
> open to virtually any region. I’ve been gone for 14 yrs so I’m dealing
> with a blank slate. What places should I consider? Why?
>

The US gliderport with the best year around soaring conditions is at
Warner Springs in the mountains northeast of San Diego. However, it is
more than a 20 minute drive from the amenities you are looking for.

You indicate you are willing to fly a motorglider out of a GA field,
which gives you a lot of options. There are several GA airports between
the coast and the mountains in California. You could live in a location
with a temperate coastal climate and all the features you desire, yet
not have to motor very far to get to excellent mountain soaring
conditions. For example, live in Ventura, base your plane at the
Camarillo or Oxnard airports, and it is only a 25 mile flight to
excellent soaring conditions in the mountains north of Ojai.

TXBill[_2_]

February 16th 09, 04:24 AM

"tienshanman" > wrote

>What places should I consider? Why?

Two words: Austin. Texas.

Well, a few more:
- Year-round soaring possible (6 knots to 6,500 feet last week!)
- 10+ knot summer thermals
- Short, mild winters (50's to low 80's in Dec, Jan, & Feb; rare frosts &
freezes)
- Hot, dry summers (90's to low 100's in July & August)
- Showery springs full of wild flowers from March through mid-June
- Perfect fall weather usually lasts from mid-September to early December
- Palm trees (people were not designed to live where palm trees won't grow!)
- World-class university town
- Great schools
- Dynamic, multi-cultural community
- Vibrant arts scene
- Local soaring club with its own airfield
- Live music capital of the world!
- Lakes, rivers, trees, hills, parks, trails
- Easy access to Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, & Gulf beaches
- Relatively low cost of living
- Lots of local airports
- No state income tax
- Choice of urban, suburban, and rural lifestyles all within 30 mins of
downtown
- It's in Texas!
- Even better, it's in the Texas Hill Country!

TXBill

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
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tienshanman

February 16th 09, 07:28 AM

On Feb 14, 9:50*pm, tienshanman tienshanman.
wrote:
Tim,

I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to really
assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS member.
I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was
wondering if you could comment on this.

--
tienshanman

Tienshanman,

As others have commented each place has pluses and minuses. We came
to Utah as non LDS about nine years ago. As with most states each
community is different, in any state there are places you would live
and places you would choose not to. As I said before I prefer
“college” towns because they tend to have a social atmosphere that is
different from most other towns. We had two children that were 4 and
10 at the time so it was a concern of ours, as well as how we would
like it here.

As it turn out it was a non-issue for the most part. Logan has a high
enough percent of population of non-LDS that we were able to find out
own circle of friends without any problems and our children have done
the same. As Mike said there is limited interaction between the LDS
and others mostly due to the time constraints that their religion
places on them. We do not have anyone trying to convert us to their
religion or other things like that. Logan has most of faiths
represented from the Catholic Church to a Synagogue. There are
Lutherans, Methodists and Buddhists.

For me the three areas of the state I would be most comfortable are
Logan, Salt Lake City and St. George. I don’t think I would want to
live in one of the small towns out of the Wasatch front and would
likely not want to live in the Prove/Orem area. But I grew up in
California and am considered a liberal, especially in Utah.

We feel much more comfortable here than in Minnesota, could not take
the “Minnesota Nice” that to the locals in a positive term, but to
outsiders is a negative. When it gets cold in the winter we always
say to ourselves it could be worse, we could be in Minnesota.

Utah has a reputation of being odd, but I think most of it was earned
twenty to thirty years ago; there have been many changes even in the
last nine years that I have been here. We will soon see a brew pub or
two in Logan and hopefully you won’t have to join a club to go in a
bar by next year.

We love the outdoors and being active. I live less than a mile from
the national forest boundary and a mile from a major university. The
local ski resort is only 27 miles away and I can get a season pass for
about $250 a year. Compare that price to what you would pay anywhere
else. One positive in Utah for the non-LDS is that the LDS can’t do
activities on Sunday so the ski resorts, hiking and biking trails,
movie theaters, etc are empty on Sundays. If we have more than a
minute wait in a lift line it is time to move to a different lift.
And yes it is the best snow on earth.

My top list in the west includes Boulder, CO, Fort Collins, CO, Logan,
UT, Albuquerque, NM, Ashland, OR/Montague, CA, Paradise/Chico, CA,
Reno, NV, PASCO, WA and Flagstaff, AZ. I picked the job site and
family friendly part first, but was looking at the soaring
possibilities when I came to Logan. Having a tow available was what
sealed the decision. I got lucky that the soaring was better than I
ever imagined and I am still learning about the potential each year.

Tim, thanks for all of the good info on Logan. Because of your very objective assessment I'll put Logan way up on the list and defintely come by for a good look this summer when I plan to do the big home hunting journey. In the meantime I'll try to learn as much as I can about the area on the net. I also very much enjoy backcontry skiing and from what I can tell the mountains just E. of town are full of good places to tour with nice powder runs. I also still like to hike my paraglider up peaks and fly back down and I noticed a neat clip on youtube of a guy flying off of one of the peaks the edge of town and landing on a big lawn at the univ!

[email protected]

February 16th 09, 11:56 AM

When it comes to Winter soaring, Blairstown, NJ is the best.

OLC airfield: #1

OLC champion: #1, #2, #6 and several in the top 25.(The #1 guy flys
1-26! )

OLC Club: #1 (Aeroclub Albatross)and #3 (1-26 Association)

Hilton Cup Champ flights made from there.
1000K flights made from there.

Ridge, wave and thermal flights

7 / 365 tow operation

Beautiful rural part of NJ, but not far from "civilization" (New York
City)

Cook

Gregg Ballou

February 16th 09, 03:15 PM

If you need an Eastern Metro area then Blairstown is the place.

At 11:56 16 February 2009, wrote:
>When it comes to Winter soaring, Blairstown, NJ is the best.
>
>OLC airfield: #1
>
>OLC champion: #1, #2, #6 and several in the top 25.(The #1
guy flys
>1-26! )
>
>OLC Club: #1 (Aeroclub Albatross)and #3 (1-26 Association)
>
>Hilton Cup Champ flights made from there.
>1000K flights made from there.
>
>Ridge, wave and thermal flights
>
>7 / 365 tow operation
>
>Beautiful rural part of NJ, but not far from "civilization" (New
York
>City)
>
>Cook
>
>

Jim Archer

February 16th 09, 06:45 PM

Austin does seem to fit these requirements well. What are some typical x/c
flights out of there on a good day?

I grew up in Ashland Or. and that is a great option. Hard to find a good
job there or I'd be there myself. Moderate probably best describes it
overall, in weather, soaring, skiing, etc. It's a small, liberal,
tourist town. Good public schools, small arts scene, expensive homes,
interesting people (although less and less so as it is becoming a wealthy
retirement area). And I think one of the more beautiful places in the
country. Small, steep ski hill nearby, when it is good it's great, but
it is often just average. Definitely visit and see for yourself. The
drive to Montague soaring is at least 30 minutes though.

At 15:15 16 February 2009, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>If you need an Eastern Metro area then Blairstown is the place.
>
>At 11:56 16 February 2009, wrote:
>>When it comes to Winter soaring, Blairstown, NJ is the best.
>>
>>OLC airfield: #1
>>
>>OLC champion: #1, #2, #6 and several in the top 25.(The #1
>guy flys
>>1-26! )
>>
>>OLC Club: #1 (Aeroclub Albatross)and #3 (1-26 Association)
>>
>>Hilton Cup Champ flights made from there.
>>1000K flights made from there.
>>
>>Ridge, wave and thermal flights
>>
>>7 / 365 tow operation
>>
>>Beautiful rural part of NJ, but not far from "civilization" (New
>York
>>City)
>>
>>Cook
>>
>>
>

Jim Archer

February 16th 09, 07:30 PM

Eric Greenwell

February 16th 09, 10:00 PM

Jim Archer wrote:
> Austin does seem to fit these requirements well.

Too many people, too few mountains.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Richard[_9_]

February 17th 09, 02:15 AM

On Feb 16, 11:30*am, Jim Archer > wrote:
> Austin does seem to fit these requirements well. *What are some typical x/c
> flights out of there on a good day?
>
> I grew up in Ashland Or. and that is a great option. *Hard to find a good
> job there or I'd be there myself. *Moderate probably best describes it
> overall, in weather, soaring, skiing, etc. *It's a small, liberal,
> tourist town. Good public schools, small arts scene, expensive homes,
> interesting people (although less and less so as it is becoming a wealthy
> retirement area). *And I think one of the more beautiful places in the
> country. * Small, steep ski hill nearby, when it is good it's great, but
> it is often just average. *Definitely visit and see for yourself. *The
> drive to Montague soaring is at least 30 minutes though.
>
> *At 15:15 16 February 2009, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>
>
>
> >If you need an Eastern Metro area then Blairstown is the place.
>
> >At 11:56 16 February 2009, wrote:
> >>When it comes to Winter soaring, Blairstown, NJ is the best.
>
> >>OLC airfield: #1
>
> >>OLC champion: #1, #2, #6 and several in the top 25.(The #1
> >guy flys
> >>1-26! )
>
> >>OLC Club: #1 (Aeroclub Albatross)and #3 (1-26 Association)
>
> >>Hilton Cup Champ flights made from there.
> >>1000K flights made from there.
>
> >>Ridge, wave and thermal flights
>
> >>7 / 365 tow operation
>
> >>Beautiful rural part of NJ, but not far from "civilization" (New
> >York
> >>City)
>
> >>Cook- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I live about 25 miles south of Ashland, Oregon in California and 12
miles north of the Siskiyou County Airport. Ashland is a very nice
town. Believe it or not Taxes are lower in CA and Real Estate is
much less. It is a rural area.

Please see for the soaring information.

http://www.craggyaero.com/towing.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[email protected]

February 17th 09, 08:03 PM

Ramy

February 17th 09, 08:12 PM

On Feb 15, 4:20*pm, Greg Arnold > wrote:
> tienshanman wrote:
> > I would appreciates some suggestions…..I am looking for the ideal place
> > to live in the US – for soaring (I have not told my wife how massively
> > weighted this particular criterion is!). I am overseas now and more
> > than likely we will return to the US this summer. I have spent hours on
> > the net researching places to live which have the best combination of
> > access to good flying, good schools (3 elem school age kids), a
> > critical mass of interesting people and culture and good weather. One
> > thing I do not want to do is drive anything more that about 15 – 20 min
> > to a glider field and I intend to buy a self launching glider if some
> > sort so I could presumably fly from a small, welcoming GA airport. I am
> > open to virtually any region. I’ve been gone for 14 yrs so I’m dealing
> > with a blank slate. What places should I consider? Why?
>
> The US gliderport with the best year around soaring conditions is at
> Warner Springs in the mountains northeast of San Diego. *However, it is
> more than a 20 minute drive from the amenities you are looking for.
>
I ditto that. I can't think of a better location then San Diego area
for year around great soaring, great weather and great location. I
think Warner Springs is less then an hour drive from most locations
around San Diago.

Ramy

[email protected]

February 17th 09, 08:38 PM

On Feb 16, 12:28*am, tienshanman <tienshanman.
> wrote:
> Tim Taylor;682793 Wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14, 9:50*pm, tienshanman tienshanman.
> > wrote:-
> > Tim,
>
> > I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to
> > really
> > assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS
> > member.
> > I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was
> > wondering if you could comment on this.
>
> > --
> > tienshanman-
>
> > Tienshanman,
>
> > As others have commented each place has pluses and minuses. *We came
> > to Utah as non LDS about nine years ago. *As with most states each
> > community is different, in any state there are places you would live
> > and places you would choose not to. *As I said before I prefer
> > “college” towns because they tend to have a social atmosphere that is
> > different from most other towns. *We had two children that were 4 and
> > 10 at the time so it was a concern of ours, as well as how we would
> > like it here.
>
> > As it turn out it was a non-issue for the most part. *Logan has a high
> > enough percent of population of non-LDS that we were able to find out
> > own circle of friends without any problems and our children have done
> > the same. *As Mike said there is limited interaction between the LDS
> > and others mostly due to the time constraints that their religion
> > places on them. * We do not have anyone trying to convert us to their
> > religion or other things like that. *Logan has most of faiths
> > represented from the Catholic Church to a Synagogue. *There are
> > Lutherans, Methodists and Buddhists.
>
> > For me the three areas of the state I would be most comfortable are
> > Logan, Salt Lake City and St. George. *I don’t think I would want to
> > live in one of the small towns out of the Wasatch front and would
> > likely not want to live in the Prove/Orem area. *But I grew up in
> > California and am considered a liberal, especially in Utah.
>
> > We feel much more comfortable here than in Minnesota, could not take
> > the “Minnesota Nice” that to the locals in a positive term, but to
> > outsiders is a negative. *When it gets cold in the winter we always
> > say to ourselves it could be worse, we could be in Minnesota.
>
> > Utah has a reputation of being odd, but I think most of it was earned
> > twenty to thirty years ago; there have been many changes even in the
> > last nine years that I have been here. *We will soon see a brew pub or
> > two in Logan and hopefully you won’t have to join a club to go in a
> > bar by next year.
>
> > We love the outdoors and being active. *I live less than a mile from
> > the national forest boundary and a mile from a major university. *The
> > local ski resort is only 27 miles away and I can get a season pass for
> > about $250 a year. *Compare that price to what you would pay anywhere
> > else. *One positive in Utah for the non-LDS is that the LDS can’t do
> > activities on Sunday so the ski resorts, hiking and biking trails,
> > movie theaters, etc are empty on Sundays. *If we have more than a
> > minute wait in a lift line it is time to move to a different lift.
> > And yes it is the best snow on earth.
>
> > My top list in the west includes Boulder, CO, Fort Collins, CO, Logan,
> > UT, Albuquerque, NM, Ashland, OR/Montague, CA, Paradise/Chico, CA,
> > Reno, NV, PASCO, WA and Flagstaff, AZ. *I picked the job site and
> > family friendly part first, but was looking at the soaring
> > possibilities when I came to Logan. *Having a tow available was what
> > sealed the decision. *I got lucky that the soaring was better than I
> > ever imagined and I am still learning about the potential each year.
>
> Tim, thanks for all of the good info on Logan. Because of your very
> objective assessment I'll put Logan way up on the list and defintely
> come by for a good look this summer when I plan to do the big home
> hunting journey. In the meantime I'll try to learn as much as I can
> about the area on the net. I also very much enjoy backcontry skiing and
> from what I can tell the mountains just E. of town are full of good
> places to tour with nice powder runs. I also still like to hike my
> paraglider up peaks and fly back down and I noticed a neat clip on
> youtube of a guy flying off of one of the peaks the edge of town and
> landing on a big lawn at the univ!
>
> --
> tienshanman

Well, you should have mentioned the backcountry skiing and the
paragliding before. Utah is THE PLACE for you (or at least one of the
very few ideal options). I'll give you tour info for the Salt Lake
area and Southern Utah, if you let me know when you're coming, and I
imagine Tim could do the same for Logan and Northern Utah.

Jeff

PS: You might also want to check out Durango/Cortez Colorado while
your in the West.

Surfer!

February 17th 09, 09:35 PM

In message
>,
writes
<snip>
>
>With three kids, your main issues might be with the Utah schools.
>While fairly well rated for achievement, Utah schools are near the
>bottom on spending per student and near the top in class size
<Snip>

If the schools are achieving, does class size / spending matter?

--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net

Bob Backer

February 17th 09, 10:16 PM

>>
> I ditto that. I can't think of a better location then San Diego area
> for year around great soaring, great weather and great location. I
> think Warner Springs is less then an hour drive from most locations
> around San Diago.
>
> Ramy

I live in north San Diego County in the small coastal community of Del
Mar. It takes me about 1hr 10 minutes to get to Warner Springs. SD
County is a big place, 4,261 square miles, so driving time can vary
widely. I would say and certainly the OLC data backs this up, that
overall, we do get the best year round soaring. There are places that
have better conditions at certain times of the year, but probably no
site that is more consistently soarable.

Bob

Hunter[_2_]

February 18th 09, 05:44 PM

On Feb 16, 2:00*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> Jim Archer wrote:
> > Austin does seem to fit these requirements well.
>

If you are not from Texas, I would stay away from Austin. I grew up
in the Pacific Northwest and spent two years living in Austin. George
Bush is a very typical Texan! By and large they have never travelled
outside the same six blocks they grew up in, thus their views are very
limited. Everywhere you go you will hear "this is probably the best
{insert any noun or verb} in the world". Austin is humid in the
Summer, Spring and Fall, fire ants, stinging grass, and full of
uneducated and educated rednecks. I remember going to "Clear Lake"
out side Houston and being told by friends in Austin that is was
probably the prettiest lake in the world {they had never been to Lake
Como}. This lake was nothing more than a mud and slime lake with fire
ants on all the shores and Texans running around screaming "this is
the best place in the world." It may have been the best place in
their world as they never travel, or stupid pills are put in their
milk at childhood. I could tell you at least 10 other first person
"this is the best ______ in the world" stories but I think you get the
picture.

Tom Nau

February 18th 09, 07:19 PM

On Feb 18, 11:44*am, Hunter > wrote:
> On Feb 16, 2:00*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
>
> > Jim Archer wrote:
> > > Austin does seem to fit these requirements well.
>
> If you are not from Texas, I would stay away from Austin. *I grew up
> in the Pacific Northwest and spent two years living in Austin. *George
> Bush is a very typical Texan! *By and large they have never travelled
> outside the same six blocks they grew up in, thus their views are very
> limited. *Everywhere you go you will hear "this is probably the best
> {insert any noun or verb} in the world". *Austin is humid in the
> Summer, Spring and Fall, fire ants, stinging grass, and full of
> uneducated and educated rednecks. *I remember going to "Clear Lake"
> out side Houston and being told by friends in Austin that is was
> probably the prettiest lake in the world {they had never been to Lake
> Como}. *This lake was nothing more than a mud and slime lake with fire
> ants on all the shores and Texans running around screaming "this is
> the best place in the world." *It may have been the best place in
> their world as they never travel, or stupid pills are put in their
> milk at childhood. *I could tell you at least 10 other first person
> "this is the best ______ in the world" stories but I think you get the
> picture.

Wow! Sometimes un-happy people are just un-happy.

Tom Nau
San Antonio, TX
ASW 28

Hunter[_2_]

February 18th 09, 09:02 PM

I am perfectly happy, however, I am much happier outside of Texas. I
am not slamming Texas I am merely sharing my Texas experience. A few
more Texas stories. When I first arrived in Texas the locals were
happy to show the "best places in the world." My first weekend in
Austin, some new friends from work offered to take me to Aqua Marine
Springs they told me (I am not kidding) it was "probably the prettiest
place in the world." In 1987 it cost $36 to get in (the same entry
fee as Disneyland at the time). The main attraction was a pond where
the aqua weeds would grow 12 inches a night and had to be cut away
every morning to show a hole where a spring was feeding this pond.
Then every hour a pig would jump into the pond.

I actually thought Geneva Switzerland was bit more attractive.

Another true Texas story was on my second weekend in Texas I asked if
there was any kayaking. I was told Texas "probably had the best
kayaking in the world.” I went to this "best river" and was told
there were class 4 rapids, I wondered because the vertical drop was
not much. Vendors were renting air mattress for the trip down the
class 4 river?! I saw many signs along the bank clearly stating
"Private Property" and was told to stay off any property with such as
sign as I would hear a whistle followed by a shotgun blast. The class
4 rapids trued out to be two logs place across the river to create a
small drop. Did not match the class 4 rivers I ran in Idaho and
Colorado.

One last Austin story. I arrived on December 15, 1986, I was
wondering why the local news reported the mold count, the pollen count
and the number of people admitted to hospitals with respiratory
problems. I soon found out. I grew up working on farms in Idaho and
never had a problem with hay fever. Well in Austin, during the late
fall and winter the Cedar bushes give off pollen that made life very
miserable for me and many others I worked with at AMD fab 15.

There are a few positives about Austin. There is a great gliding club
Fault Line Flyers (Ron Tabery flies with them) great gliding and some
wonderful people. However, I believe if you have done any traveling
and were not raised in Texas, you might have a hard time adjusting.

On Feb 18, 11:19*am, Tom Nau > wrote:

>
> Wow! *Sometimes un-happy people are just un-happy.
>
> Tom Nau
> San Antonio, TX
> ASW 28

jb92563

February 18th 09, 09:06 PM

Lake Elsinore in Southern California has an airport at the end of the
Lake.

You can have a home on, or with beach rights access to the Lake for
other summer activities at the beach that the kids will love.

You have a 40k population with serveral new schools elementary to
highschool.

The homes can be had with beach access for as low as 80k for a cottage
with options all the way up to Multi Million dollar homes and ranches
nearby.

Everywhere in Elsinore you are 15 mins or less from the airport.

The Airport features a Soaring club with their own runway and there
are already several motor gliders located there.

www.soarelsinore.org

You do not have to join the Soaring operation to fly there, just $40/
mth tie down fee is all it has to cost with a motor glider.

There is also a Skydive operation from the other runway. The
operations coexist very well without any conflicts.

The Elsinore soaring type is Ridge, Thermal, Convergence and Wave at
various and frequent times of the year.

Your takeoff is out over a treeless flood plain out over the Lake so
shallow glide paths are possible and good emergency landing options
are abundant.

There is Warner Springs and Hemet Soaring also nearby.

100LL is available at French Valley airport 8 miles away if you need
it.

The some water bombers now use the lake as a base during fire season,
as well as the additional land based water bombers in Hemet 30 miles
away
so any fire hazards nearby are quickly dealt with.

You are close to big Cities LA and San Diego about 1 hour drive in
opposite directions and are 30 miles from the coast in case you like
visiting the beach or going surfing.

Mountains for skiing in the winter are also a couple hours drive away
in Big Bear, although I can get there by motor glider in about 45
minutes.

There are dozens of other small airports nearby within 50 miles if you
want to go explore.

The big airspaces nearby are John Wayne, Ontario and March AFRB and
are easy to fly around or transition if you want.

The scenery is spectacular and you are able to enjoy it year round due
to the moderate climate.

I just think this area is paradise and am looking forward to some fun
trips in my Grob 109 this year.

There are many cool destinations around that can be gotten to by way
of mountains, ridges, thermals and convergence that make this place a
lot of fun for Motor gliders and gliders alike.

Anywhere from Catalina Island(Leisure/boating), San Francisco
(Entertainment), Reno NV(Wave soaring camps), Parowan UT(Motor glider
competitions), Las Vegas(Entertainment), Laughlin(The River), Desert
Cities(Off Roading), Arizona(Heat) to Mexico(Cheap Everything &
coastal resorts) are a nice liesurely flight from here.

I'm sure there is something bound to be pleasing what ever your
preferences.

Ray

Grob 109
HP-11
Moni

Andy[_1_]

February 18th 09, 10:21 PM

On Feb 18, 2:06*pm, jb92563 > wrote:
> I'm sure there is something bound to be pleasing what ever your
> preferences.

Did you forget to mention the flooding or doesn't that happen anymore?

Andy

Ramy

February 18th 09, 10:56 PM

On Feb 18, 2:21*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:06*pm, jb92563 > wrote:
>
> > I'm sure there is something bound to be pleasing what ever your
> > preferences.
>
> Did you forget to mention the flooding or doesn't that happen anymore?
>
> Andy

After reading some of the posts I must wonder if the authors read the
original post looking for "places to live which have the best
combination of access to good flying, good schools (3 elem school age
kids), a critical mass of interesting people and culture and good
weather." Some of the places mentioned here, while having their unique
qualities, could not be further from what the poster was looking for.

Ramy

bagmaker

February 18th 09, 10:56 PM

Tuno

February 18th 09, 11:32 PM

<snip> I am not slamming Texas I am merely sharing my Texas
experience. </snip>

If I shared my Idaho experience the same way, you would call it
slamming, or worse.

I grew up in Texas (very close to Clear Lake) and after reading your
description I wondered if there was another Austin up north of Dallas
or something. The one I visited many times was beautiful, friendly,
and to this day ranks as one of the top places I would choose to live.
(Never Houston, though.)

~ted/2NO

[email protected]

February 18th 09, 11:36 PM

I've flown all over the country and often thought this myself.

Hands down I would pick Knoxville, TN. No income tax, cheap cost of
living, your money goes alot further there. There are record setting
ridges. Plentiful thermal and wave. I've clipped through the top of
lenticular clouds at 25,000 feet before. The intelligence level of
the majority of the population far surpasses much of the rest of the
United States. You get a variety of 4 seasons. Great public schools,
great college schools for your kids. And it's centrally located
amongst many regional contests and the GTA glider racing community.
If your in to hiking, canoeing, kayaking it's all in your backyard.
The summer's don't get too hot, and the winters don't get too cold.
Gatlinburg is just an hour's drive. Gatlinburg is one of the most
popular vacation spots in the appalachian mountains. Lots of good
restaurants too.

If my wife wasn't still attached to her mother by her embillical
chord.....we would have moved to Knoxville 5 years ago!

Scott Alexander
ASW-15/CRJ-200

Wayne Paul

February 19th 09, 04:32 AM

Hunter,

I sent a couple messages to your Gmail.com account. Do you check it
regularly? (Email me your replay.)

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

Do you monit
"Hunter" > wrote in message
...
I am perfectly happy, however, I am much happier outside of Texas. I
am not slamming Texas I am merely sharing my Texas experience. A few
more Texas stories. When I first arrived in Texas the locals were
happy to show the "best places in the world." My first weekend in
Austin, some new friends from work offered to take me to Aqua Marine
Springs they told me (I am not kidding) it was "probably the prettiest
place in the world." In 1987 it cost $36 to get in (the same entry
fee as Disneyland at the time). The main attraction was a pond where
the aqua weeds would grow 12 inches a night and had to be cut away
every morning to show a hole where a spring was feeding this pond.
Then every hour a pig would jump into the pond.

I actually thought Geneva Switzerland was bit more attractive.

Another true Texas story was on my second weekend in Texas I asked if
there was any kayaking. I was told Texas "probably had the best
kayaking in the world.” I went to this "best river" and was told
there were class 4 rapids, I wondered because the vertical drop was
not much. Vendors were renting air mattress for the trip down the
class 4 river?! I saw many signs along the bank clearly stating
"Private Property" and was told to stay off any property with such as
sign as I would hear a whistle followed by a shotgun blast. The class
4 rapids trued out to be two logs place across the river to create a
small drop. Did not match the class 4 rivers I ran in Idaho and
Colorado.

One last Austin story. I arrived on December 15, 1986, I was
wondering why the local news reported the mold count, the pollen count
and the number of people admitted to hospitals with respiratory
problems. I soon found out. I grew up working on farms in Idaho and
never had a problem with hay fever. Well in Austin, during the late
fall and winter the Cedar bushes give off pollen that made life very
miserable for me and many others I worked with at AMD fab 15.

There are a few positives about Austin. There is a great gliding club
Fault Line Flyers (Ron Tabery flies with them) great gliding and some
wonderful people. However, I believe if you have done any traveling
and were not raised in Texas, you might have a hard time adjusting.

On Feb 18, 11:19 am, Tom Nau > wrote:

>
> Wow! Sometimes un-happy people are just un-happy.
>
> Tom Nau
> San Antonio, TX
> ASW 28

Hunter[_2_]

February 19th 09, 05:27 AM

On Feb 18, 3:32*pm, Tuno > wrote:

Dear Ted, I really am not looking for any flame, I was telling my real
life experiences. As for Idaho, Boise or Sun Valley are the only two
places I would ever choose to live in that State. I loved Boise, not
everyone does. If you shared your experiences in Idaho I really would
not care. We are sharing to help answer a question by a fellow glider
pilot. I have based my flying out of Austin, Tehachapi, Minden and
Warner Springs through the years. Each place was wonderful for glider
flying. I thought Techachapi was the best glider port and great
flying but the town is way to small for my liking (I lived in San
Diego and drove to Tehachapi on the weekends during the summer
months). Minden offers Reno, Tahoe and much natural mountain beauty.
San Diego seems to offer much in the way of everything, if you can
afford it.

I am sure there are many places that appeal to some but not others. I
stand by my comments about Texas and Austin as I lived there for two
years and the experiences I related were all true.

Best luck finding the ideal spot and once you do let us all know why
you like it.

> <snip> I am not slamming Texas I am merely sharing my Texas
> experience. </snip>
>
> If I shared my Idaho experience the same way, you would call it
> slamming, or worse.
>
> I grew up in Texas (very close to Clear Lake) and after reading your
> description I wondered if there was another Austin up north of Dallas
> or something. The one I visited many times was beautiful, friendly,
> and to this day ranks as one of the top places I would choose to live.
> (Never Houston, though.)
>
> ~ted/2NO

bumper

February 19th 09, 05:31 AM

"Tom Nau" > wrote in > picture.

Wow! Sometimes un-happy people are just un-happy.

Tom Nau
San Antonio, TX
ASW 28

Hmmm, maybe someone should send Hunter a copy of the Beauty of Gliding
entirely free of charge.

bumper
ASH26E
Minden, NV
QV 'n MKIII

tienshanman

February 19th 09, 07:55 AM

If you are considering that much of scenery change, why not do it properly and move to Australia!
Best people, best gliding, great bang for US buck at the moment too.
Not to be racist, you could also try New Zulland or South Efrica as well, the change would be an eye-opener for most US residents.
For the cost of decent coffee in Washington, take a weeks holiday in Australia and check us out.

and- having spent 6 months travelling in the US ( I do love you guys, truly) the only place I was troubled was Austin, Texas. 3 cracked ribs, bruises, etc. Might have been a once-off, sure, but left more than a bad taste.

Perhaps I should return and soar there to clear up the memory!

bagger

Bagger,

I'm in the mining business and almost all of my colleagues are from Perth! Some of the best people I've ever run into. I'd love to give Australia a shot. I've read up on the soaring there and it looks great. I've even looked into immigration and have a company exploring that for me. Interesting that you shoudl bring up Australia. Only thing I would miss are the higher moutains!

Dr. John Ackerson

February 20th 09, 10:44 PM

On Feb 14, 9:50*pm, tienshanman <tienshanman.
> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to really
> assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS member.
> I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was
> wondering if you could comment on this.
>
> --
> tienshanman

Utah is very family friendly! I live in Heber City Utah with 4
young kids. Heber is a mountain valley with majestic mountains all
around. Heber, at one time used to be the mecca of Soaring in Utah.
The soaring has decreased since the private jets from Park City moved
in. Since I trained here, I don't mind the jets. Its actually quite
a thrill to be number one on final with a Citation X as number 2 with
a Piper on crosswind in the landing pattern. Morgan is another
soaring hot spot in Utah close to Ogden. Morgan is a lot more rural
than Heber with no jets. Parowan is 3 hours away if you want a change
of scenery. Heber is a lot like Logan Utah, but we still have more jet
traffic. Cedar Valley, which is west of Provo/ Utah Lake exists for
soaring but I don't know much about it.
Utah is one of the highest in the nation for High School
Graduation rates. The schools are regarded as excellent based on SAT/
ACT Testing. Some of the more rural schools (ie parowan) sometimes
struggle a little due to the agriculture culture of the community. If
the LDS thing really bugs you, Park city is only 20 minutes away which
has very few LDS. Park City is mostly an east cost liberal democrat
refuge with high average incomes and higher taxes. It also has great
skiing. We even have a democrat rep Jim Matheson in the house. I
have a lot of friends both LDS and Non LDS and we all get along
great. Most normal non LDS people find that the LDS thing is no big
deal when they get here unless there social life revolves around the
bar scene. In general, the LDS people are very friendly and try to
be good neighbors. You will find a few that are very odd as in any
culture. Don't worry, we only have one wife and we don't dress like
pilgrims.
I only drive 5 minutes to get to the local airport. I am on tow
in the air in 30-45 minutes from leaving my house. We soar 6-7
months out of the year. We ski/ snowboard and or snowmobile the rest
of the time. The winter break from soaring really increases the joy
for spring and returning to the air. We have 3 fishing/boating lakes
less than 45 minutes away. Life gets no better if you like a strong 4
season climate with low humidity and strong thermals. Heber is only
30 minutes from great shopping in Provo or 50 minutes from Salt Lake.
It has a small town feel but is close enough to the big city that many
people commute to Salt Lake or Provo to work. The club owns 3 Grob
103's. We keep two in Heber and one in Morgan.
Property taxes are low and cost of living is low to average which
makes Utah a great place to retire, as long as you don't mind the
snow. Heber has the some of the lowest crime rates in the nation yet
most still lock there doors at night. Best of luck on your final
decision.
John Ackerson OD
736 West 100 South #2
Heber UT 84032
435-654-3140

tienshanman

February 21st 09, 03:26 AM

On Feb 14, 9:50*pm, tienshanman tienshanman.
wrote:
Tim,

I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to really
assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS member.
I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was
wondering if you could comment on this.

--
tienshanman

Utah is very family friendly! I live in Heber City Utah with 4
young kids. Heber is a mountain valley with majestic mountains all
around. Heber, at one time used to be the mecca of Soaring in Utah.
The soaring has decreased since the private jets from Park City moved
in. Since I trained here, I don't mind the jets. Its actually quite
a thrill to be number one on final with a Citation X as number 2 with
a Piper on crosswind in the landing pattern. Morgan is another
soaring hot spot in Utah close to Ogden. Morgan is a lot more rural
than Heber with no jets. Parowan is 3 hours away if you want a change
of scenery. Heber is a lot like Logan Utah, but we still have more jet
traffic. Cedar Valley, which is west of Provo/ Utah Lake exists for
soaring but I don't know much about it.
Utah is one of the highest in the nation for High School
Graduation rates. The schools are regarded as excellent based on SAT/
ACT Testing. Some of the more rural schools (ie parowan) sometimes
struggle a little due to the agriculture culture of the community. If
the LDS thing really bugs you, Park city is only 20 minutes away which
has very few LDS. Park City is mostly an east cost liberal democrat
refuge with high average incomes and higher taxes. It also has great
skiing. We even have a democrat rep Jim Matheson in the house. I
have a lot of friends both LDS and Non LDS and we all get along
great. Most normal non LDS people find that the LDS thing is no big
deal when they get here unless there social life revolves around the
bar scene. In general, the LDS people are very friendly and try to
be good neighbors. You will find a few that are very odd as in any
culture. Don't worry, we only have one wife and we don't dress like
pilgrims.
I only drive 5 minutes to get to the local airport. I am on tow
in the air in 30-45 minutes from leaving my house. We soar 6-7
months out of the year. We ski/ snowboard and or snowmobile the rest
of the time. The winter break from soaring really increases the joy
for spring and returning to the air. We have 3 fishing/boating lakes
less than 45 minutes away. Life gets no better if you like a strong 4
season climate with low humidity and strong thermals. Heber is only
30 minutes from great shopping in Provo or 50 minutes from Salt Lake.
It has a small town feel but is close enough to the big city that many
people commute to Salt Lake or Provo to work. The club owns 3 Grob
103's. We keep two in Heber and one in Morgan.
Property taxes are low and cost of living is low to average which
makes Utah a great place to retire, as long as you don't mind the
snow. Heber has the some of the lowest crime rates in the nation yet
most still lock there doors at night. Best of luck on your final
decision.
John Ackerson OD
736 West 100 South #2
Heber UT 84032
435-654-3140

Jack,

What a coincidence - just last night I was looking at Heber on google earth and reading some sites about it. Seems like a very nice place indeed! One certainly can't get much closer to the airport!

bumper

February 21st 09, 05:20 AM

So, almost everyone* loves where they live and thinks it's best.

*The exception being someone who really doesn't much like Texas.

This article in the NY Times today (and you know they wouldn't lie, right?)
pretty much sums it up:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/greathomesanddestinations/20havens.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=gardnerville&st=cse

bumper
Minden, NV (of course)
QV and MKIII - - toys for your favorite glider.

[email protected]

February 21st 09, 06:18 AM

>
> Wow! *Sometimes un-happy people are just un-happy.
>
> Tom Nau
> San Antonio, TX
> ASW 28

No kidding. I hated Texas, and agree with many of the points
(Especially the humidity and the rednecks), but flying out of San
Antonio for a year, I got a few 500K flights...It just involved a lot
more sweat than it did in New Mexico. The Austin club is pretty cool,
and although I only got to visit there on a couple of occasions, I got
to fly with guys out of there quite a bit when flying out of San
Antonio and was impressed by the amount of "Team flying" and sense of
community that was there. Every place has it's good and bad points.
Me, I'll stick with Moriarty, New Mexico and be quite content, Texas
just was not for me, but I'm not "Everyone"

EX

[email protected]

February 25th 09, 10:11 PM

On Feb 20, 8:26*pm, tienshanman <tienshanman.
> wrote:
> Dr. John Ackerson;683444 Wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14, 9:50*pm, tienshanman tienshanman.
> > wrote:-
> > Tim,
>
> > I have always been interested in Utah but have not been able to
> > really
> > assess what it's like there with a family if you are not an LDS
> > member.
> > I have heard that it can be socially limiting, a bit stifling. I was
> > wondering if you could comment on this.
>
> > --
> > tienshanman-
>
> > Utah is very family friendly! *I live in Heber City Utah with 4
> > young kids. *Heber is a mountain valley with majestic mountains all
> > around. * Heber, at one time used to be the mecca of Soaring in Utah.
> > The soaring has decreased since the private jets from Park City moved
> > in. *Since I trained here, I don't mind the jets. *Its actually quite
> > a thrill to be number one on final with a Citation X as number 2 with
> > a Piper on crosswind in the landing pattern. *Morgan is another
> > soaring hot spot in Utah close to Ogden. Morgan is a lot more rural
> > than Heber with no jets. *Parowan is 3 hours away if you want a change
> > of scenery. Heber is a lot like Logan Utah, but we still have more jet
> > traffic. * Cedar Valley, which is west of Provo/ Utah Lake exists for
> > soaring but I don't know much about it.
> > Utah is one of the highest in the nation for High School
> > Graduation rates. * The schools are regarded as excellent based on
> > SAT/
> > ACT Testing. * Some of the more rural schools (ie parowan) *sometimes
> > struggle a little due to the agriculture culture of the community. *If
> > the LDS thing really bugs you, Park city is only 20 minutes away which
> > has very few LDS. *Park City is mostly an east cost liberal democrat
> > refuge with high average incomes and higher taxes. It also has great
> > skiing. *We even have a democrat rep Jim Matheson in the house. * I
> > have a lot of friends both LDS and Non LDS and we all get along
> > great. *Most normal non LDS people find that the LDS thing is no big
> > deal when they get here unless there social life revolves around the
> > bar scene. * In general, the LDS people are very friendly and try to
> > be good neighbors. *You will find a few that are very odd as in any
> > culture. *Don't worry, we only have one wife and we don't dress like
> > pilgrims.
> > I only drive 5 minutes to get to the local airport. *I am on tow
> > in the air in 30-45 minutes from leaving my house. * We soar 6-7
> > months out of the year. *We ski/ snowboard and or snowmobile the rest
> > of the time. *The winter break from soaring really increases the joy
> > for spring and returning to the air. *We have 3 fishing/boating lakes
> > less than 45 minutes away. *Life gets no better if you like a strong 4
> > season climate with low humidity and strong thermals. *Heber is only
> > 30 minutes from great shopping in Provo or 50 minutes from Salt Lake.
> > It has a small town feel but is close enough to the big city that many
> > people commute to Salt Lake or Provo to work. *The club owns 3 *Grob
> > 103's. *We keep two in Heber and one in Morgan.
> > Property taxes are low and cost of living is low to average which
> > makes Utah a great place to retire, as long as you don't mind the
> > snow. *Heber has the some of the lowest crime rates in the nation yet
> > most still lock there doors at night. *Best of luck on your final
> > decision.
> > John Ackerson OD
> > 736 West 100 South #2
> > Heber UT *84032
> > 435-654-3140
>
> Jack,
>
> What a coincidence - just last night I was looking at Heber on google
> earth and reading some sites about it. Seems like a very nice place
> indeed! One certainly can't get much closer to the airport!
>
> --
> tienshanman

tienshanman: If you're seriously considering Utah -- and why wouldn't
you -- then Heber would be an excellent choice, particularly if you
prefer living in a smaller town. The spectacular view of the backside
of the Wasatch Mountains is surely one reason the Swiss immigrants
felt at home in Heber valley. The Utah Soaring Association has two
Grob 103's stationed there, so if you don't yet own a glider, or you'd
like access to a two-seater, then it's very convenient.

However, there are advantages to living on the other side of the
Wasatch in the Salt Lake City area: easier access to the best
backcountry skiing and paragliding (which you mentioned you do), plus
all the usual advantages of a bigger town -- more cultural options,
more restaurants, better schools, more educated people, international
airport, etc. Also, the soaring site nearest Salt Lake City -- Cedar
Valley, which is only 25 minutes from the center of SL Valley -- is an
excellent XC site.

Let me know if you're coming through Salt Lake City and you want a
tour.

Jeff 7JK

tienshanman

February 26th 09, 08:45 AM

tienshanman[/i][/color]

tienshanman: If you're seriously considering Utah -- and why wouldn't
you -- then Heber would be an excellent choice, particularly if you
prefer living in a smaller town. The spectacular view of the backside
of the Wasatch Mountains is surely one reason the Swiss immigrants
felt at home in Heber valley. The Utah Soaring Association has two
Grob 103's stationed there, so if you don't yet own a glider, or you'd
like access to a two-seater, then it's very convenient.

However, there are advantages to living on the other side of the
Wasatch in the Salt Lake City area: easier access to the best
backcountry skiing and paragliding (which you mentioned you do), plus
all the usual advantages of a bigger town -- more cultural options,
more restaurants, better schools, more educated people, international
airport, etc. Also, the soaring site nearest Salt Lake City -- Cedar
Valley, which is only 25 minutes from the center of SL Valley -- is an
excellent XC site.

Let me know if you're coming through Salt Lake City and you want a
tour.

Jeff 7JK[/QUOTE]

Jeff, Thanks a lot for the tips. I think Heber City looks very good indeed. There's a very good chance we'll come thru this summer to have a look. Last time I was in Utah was 1993 when I staying in SLC for several days of backcountry skiing in the canyons east of town. Logan looks fine but a bit longer drive to SLC.

jb92563

February 26th 09, 03:50 PM

On Feb 18, 2:21*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:06*pm, jb92563 > wrote:
>
> > I'm sure there is something bound to be pleasing what ever your
> > preferences.
>
> Did you forget to mention the flooding or doesn't that happen anymore?
>
> Andy

Nope, Elsinore does not flood anymore, due to the installed flood
control measures
upstream and on the Lake itself.

Also the water quality has become a priority and is no longer a
problem due to thecontrol and measures they installed in the lake.

If you have not been to Elsinore in the last few years then you would
not know it anymore, there has been a lot
of good changes and it is currently one of the best kept secrets in
SoCal. so Shhhhhhh!....lets only tell the glider pilots.

Where else could you get property with private access to any body of
water in SoCal for under 200K ?

Let alone in a place so conveniently loacated to the bigger centers,
yet far enough away to be out of the rat race?

Ray

Jp Mobo

February 26th 09, 05:15 PM

Lake Elsinore was nice at one time but ..

"The air quality in Lake Elsinore is generally not very good in the
summer and fall, the result of an inversion layer, the convergence, and
pollutants upstream from the Los Angeles basin. "

http://weathercurrents.com/lakeelsinore/FAQ.jsp

At 15:50 26 February 2009, jb92563 wrote:
>On Feb 18, 2:21=A0pm, Andy wrote:
>> On Feb 18, 2:06=A0pm, jb92563 wrote:
>>
>> > I'm sure there is something bound to be pleasing what ever your
>> > preferences.
>>
>> Did you forget to mention the flooding or doesn't that happen
anymore?
>>
>> Andy
>
>Nope, Elsinore does not flood anymore, due to the installed flood
>control measures
>upstream and on the Lake itself.
>
>Also the water quality has become a priority and is no longer a
>problem due to thecontrol and measures they installed in the lake.
>
>If you have not been to Elsinore in the last few years then you would
>not know it anymore, there has been a lot
>of good changes and it is currently one of the best kept secrets in
>SoCal. so Shhhhhhh!....lets only tell the glider pilots.
>
>Where else could you get property with private access to any body of
>water in SoCal for under 200K ?
>
>Let alone in a place so conveniently loacated to the bigger centers,
>yet far enough away to be out of the rat race?
>
>Ray
>
>