Harry (finally) lights the torch! ...and etches some zinc off too!

[wright1902glider]

Behold fellow aviators, for I have finally lighted that damned welding
torch that I got for Christmas...last year. Yep, bought a "b" tank and
an empty 40cu/ft oxy. tank off Ebay from Indiana Oxygen Co. Shipped
out next day and items were exactly as described. And free shipping!
Swapped it out at AirGas here in Boulder and paid way too much for the
refills, but... Also got my requisite RG45 rod and shade 5 goggles.
So far so good.

Went home, followed directions, purged, set up, connected, checked,
tested, etc. Turned on gas and sparked. Nuttin. Lady-friend is
standing there with camera in hand freezing, giving me the "Princess
Leia is ****ed at Han Solo" look. Sparked again. Nuttin. Not good,
especially since its Valentine's day and she's waiting to be taken to
dinner. So the torch waits while we have dinner at Olive Garden and
take in a movie (Coraline in case you were wondering, yes it was worth
$19.50).

OK, so I was lighting a torch. Sunday comes and I start checking. Gas
at the tank valves, check. Pressure on both reg. guages for each reg.,
check. Gas at the end of the hoses, check. Gas through the torch body,
check. Gas at the tip??? nope. So I take a close look and remember
VeeDubber's mantra about everything made by H-F. Take it apart. Clean
it out. Adjust it. Put it back together the way it was supposed to
have been. Seems some (insert slur of your choice here) varnished over
the end of the tip and clogged the lil' hole. OH, so THAT'S what that
nail-file and set of feeler-guages in the case are for. They ain't
feeler guages at all. They're tip cleaners. So I file the end of the
tip square, just enuf to get the varnish off. Then a dip in acetone,
followed by poking a hole in the "hole" and repeating with
progressively larger cleaners until all of the varnish has been
removed.

Reattached the tip to the torch body, cracked the valves and
Hiiisssssssss. Sounds good. With torch in one hand and striker in
other, I open the acet. valve, squeeze the sparker and POOF!

Yes my friends, I've made fire! Quickly opened the O2 valve and
adjusted the flame. WOOHOO! Looks just like the book! Called
LadyFriend to come with camera. Shut off torch. She comes out with the
"now???" look. Then its "Hey honey, watch this... hiss, poof, roar,
squeeeee, AAAHHHHHH! (angels singing in background). She takes a few
photos for posterity.

Now, for the really fun part. 50/50 mix of water and muriatic acid.
Add nasty old chunks of galv. fence railing. Bubble, bubble, hiss,
hiss! My future welding coupons go through the whole mad scientist
routine. And I dunno what those fumes were coming off the metal, but
gawd man, don't breathe them! 3 minutes later, one end of each of
piece is etched and zinc-free! Cool!

I'm sure its been done millions of times before, but to me it felt
like a rite of passage. I've wanted a welding torch since I was about
6. Now I've got one. Lookout!

Harry Frey

PS: Thanks VeeDub, Mike H., FighFlyer, and everyone else over the past
8 years.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 17, 10:33*am, wright1902glider >
wrote:

> PS: Thanks VeeDub, Mike H., FighFlyer, and everyone else over the past
> 8 years.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Thank You, Harry... for sticking with it.

Now the fun begins. No smiley; this is some serious ****.

Got some fire bricks? Eight or a dozen. BAKE them first... low heat
(mebbe 170) four or five hours. Leave them in the oven over night.
They're you're foundation. If you'd bought a MIG'ger we'd be looking
at a slab of steel plate. But with O/A, firebricks will do ya.

There's a strange kind of magic in that golden puddle. It's like one
eye of the Dragon. Learn how to create it, then how to control it,
then weld some of your coupons together, flat edge-to-edge first,
then over-lapped, then standing ON edge, forcing you to dig your
puddle our of the CORNER between the two coupons. After that, you're
ready for tube.

Don't buy real tube. Start with EMT; even junked stuff, if you can
find it. Or pick up a couple of sticks at the Borg.

Same story with the acid. Cut your coupons first. Make a 'quickie'
holding block. gouge-out a vee, slather in some BONDO, press the OILED
tubing into the Bondo. Align it by eye, keeping your errors on the
'deep' side of perfection (why? Because you can always sand off a
little bit). Once you can HOLD a tubing coupon, you can create a fish-
mouth.

If you don't have a set of round files, use your angle-head grinder.
For practice your joins don't have to be perfect metal-to-metal fish-
mouths (save that for 4130 and real airplanes).

We use mild steel rod with O/A because the TYPICAL FILLET is 3x as
thick as the wall of the tubing, which means the joint is going to be
plenty strong enough. Using EMT for practice, with a sloppy fish-
mouth, your fillets are liable to be as much as 6x or even 8x the
tubing wall (it's about .047" for EMT)

EMT is no longer marked as such because starting with the year 2000
ALL tubing formbed by the ERW processing had to meet the SAME
standards, so once you've removed the galvanizing (and the epoxy
coating) you've got basic mild steel tube created from flat-stock
using the Electric Resistance Welding process, which is now done well
enough to allow the tubing to serve virtually all the functions of
mild steel tubing.

You start with an 'L' joint. Like, a perpendicular at the end of a
horizontal piece. The trick here is the fact that ALL metal SHRINKS
as it cools, which means if you want to end up with a perfect 90 'L'
you gotta start out with something 'WAY outta shape. Then watch it
slowly 'clock' over as the weld on the inner corner cools. a

After 'L' comes 'T'. After 'T' comes diagonals.

They are all a lot of fun. Each has it's own peculiarities. You'll
smile when you see what they try to do.

---------------------------------------------

Metal mass vs the Golden Eye. The more metal, the more heat, the more
difficult it is to create and BALANCE the puddle.

---------------------------------------------

Everything you learn will be needed to keep a structure to spec.
Start with some basic squares, about a foot on a side. Four 'L'
corners. Too produce four 90 degree corners. (Trick: Do to 'L'
shaped sides FIRST. Then heat & hammer until you've got a true 90.
Then put your two L-pieces togeter to form the Square. Use your fire
bricks. Tricky bit here is to TACK-weld the square; to make sure your
new corners are MORE than 90. (Remember, they're going to CLOSE as
they COOL.)

Square & rhomboids lead to diagonals. But start with several 12
squares to begin with. Then try to make a 12" cube by welding two of
your squares together. Then add diagonals. Then hire an elephant to
test it :-) (Seriously. Even EMT is strong enough for some serious
structures.)

Compared to squares, triangles are easy -- and smarter. But that's
where you have to know your onions when it comes to fish-mouths.

Basic triangular structure is a TOWER, which for practice is based on
a 12" 'cell' size.

When you find yourself thinking of airplanes, let us know. What you
want is a 'Headwind' as a school project. Lots of welding (and it
flys just fine with one of the larger VW engines).

-----------------------------------------------------------

I'm envious. You're the guy having all the fun!

-R.S.Hoover

[Dan[_12_]]

wright1902glider wrote:
> Behold fellow aviators, for I have finally lighted that damned welding
> torch that I got for Christmas...last year. Yep, bought a "b" tank and
> an empty 40cu/ft oxy. tank off Ebay from Indiana Oxygen Co. Shipped
> out next day and items were exactly as described. And free shipping!
> Swapped it out at AirGas here in Boulder and paid way too much for the
> refills, but... Also got my requisite RG45 rod and shade 5 goggles.
> So far so good.
>
> Went home, followed directions, purged, set up, connected, checked,
> tested, etc. Turned on gas and sparked. Nuttin. Lady-friend is
> standing there with camera in hand freezing, giving me the "Princess
> Leia is ****ed at Han Solo" look. Sparked again. Nuttin. Not good,
> especially since its Valentine's day and she's waiting to be taken to
> dinner. So the torch waits while we have dinner at Olive Garden and
> take in a movie (Coraline in case you were wondering, yes it was worth
> $19.50).
>
> OK, so I was lighting a torch. Sunday comes and I start checking. Gas
> at the tank valves, check. Pressure on both reg. guages for each reg.,
> check. Gas at the end of the hoses, check. Gas through the torch body,
> check. Gas at the tip??? nope. So I take a close look and remember
> VeeDubber's mantra about everything made by H-F. Take it apart. Clean
> it out. Adjust it. Put it back together the way it was supposed to
> have been. Seems some (insert slur of your choice here) varnished over
> the end of the tip and clogged the lil' hole. OH, so THAT'S what that
> nail-file and set of feeler-guages in the case are for. They ain't
> feeler guages at all. They're tip cleaners. So I file the end of the
> tip square, just enuf to get the varnish off. Then a dip in acetone,
> followed by poking a hole in the "hole" and repeating with
> progressively larger cleaners until all of the varnish has been
> removed.
>
> Reattached the tip to the torch body, cracked the valves and
> Hiiisssssssss. Sounds good. With torch in one hand and striker in
> other, I open the acet. valve, squeeze the sparker and POOF!
>
> Yes my friends, I've made fire! Quickly opened the O2 valve and
> adjusted the flame. WOOHOO! Looks just like the book! Called
> LadyFriend to come with camera. Shut off torch. She comes out with the
> "now???" look. Then its "Hey honey, watch this... hiss, poof, roar,
> squeeeee, AAAHHHHHH! (angels singing in background). She takes a few
> photos for posterity.
>
> Now, for the really fun part. 50/50 mix of water and muriatic acid.
> Add nasty old chunks of galv. fence railing. Bubble, bubble, hiss,
> hiss! My future welding coupons go through the whole mad scientist
> routine. And I dunno what those fumes were coming off the metal, but
> gawd man, don't breathe them! 3 minutes later, one end of each of
> piece is etched and zinc-free! Cool!
>
> I'm sure its been done millions of times before, but to me it felt
> like a rite of passage. I've wanted a welding torch since I was about
> 6. Now I've got one. Lookout!
>
> Harry Frey
>
> PS: Thanks VeeDub, Mike H., FighFlyer, and everyone else over the past
> 8 years.


Now come a few more rites of passage, in no particular order:

1: igniting a rag that wasn't there when you lit the torch
2: removing your glove and touching your work before it cools
3: cutting a hunk of metal and having it land on your foot
4: finding out why long sleeves are highly recommended as is a
closed collar
5: discovering how easy it is to burn a hole in that piece that took
hours to prepare
6: having once cylinder go empty just before you complete the work
7: etc

I'm sure others will have others, but you get the idea. Welcome to
the world of bigger and more expensive toys. How long before you
graduate to MIG?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

Dan schreef:
> Now come a few more rites of passage, in no particular order:
>
> 1: igniting a rag that wasn't there when you lit the torch
> 2: removing your glove and touching your work before it cools
> 3: cutting a hunk of metal and having it land on your foot
> 4: finding out why long sleeves are highly recommended as is a
> closed collar
> 5: discovering how easy it is to burn a hole in that piece that took
> hours to prepare
> 6: having once cylinder go empty just before you complete the work
> 7: etc

Help help help! Even disregarding the elusive vocabulary of a certain
guru, it is most obvious welding will NEVER be my cup of tea. All of the
above pitfalls were clear to me with only a hacksaw, a screwdriver and a
broom in my "workshop"; actually I am beginning to wonder what keeps me
lurking around here. Sigh.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 17, 12:31*pm, jan olieslagers >
wrote:
> it is most obvious welding will NEVER be my cup of tea.
------------------------------------------------------------

The only things we ever TRULY own are the things we KNOW.

It is easier to learn to weld than to type. Knowing how to type
allows us to connect to the world. Knowing how to weld allows us to
build our OWN world.

Handy skill to have, any way you look at it.

-R.S.Hoover

[Dan[_12_]]

wrote:
> On Feb 17, 12:31 pm, jan olieslagers >
> wrote:
>> it is most obvious welding will NEVER be my cup of tea.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The only things we ever TRULY own are the things we KNOW.
>
> It is easier to learn to weld than to type. Knowing how to type
> allows us to connect to the world. Knowing how to weld allows us to
> build our OWN world.
>
> Handy skill to have, any way you look at it.
>
> -R.S.Hoover
>

I haven't done any welding since the mid 1970s. I learned just enough
to get into trouble, but other than that I agree with you.

I'll wager you can guess how I came by that list of further rites of
passage.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

wright1902glider wrote:
> Behold fellow aviators, for I have finally lighted that damned welding
> torch that I got for Christmas...last year. Yep, bought a "b" tank and
> an empty 40cu/ft oxy. tank off Ebay from Indiana Oxygen Co. Shipped
> out next day and items were exactly as described. And free shipping!
> Swapped it out at AirGas here in Boulder and paid way too much for the
> refills, but... Also got my requisite RG45 rod and shade 5 goggles.
> So far so good.
>
> Went home, followed directions, purged, set up, connected, checked,
> tested, etc. Turned on gas and sparked. Nuttin. Lady-friend is
> standing there with camera in hand freezing, giving me the "Princess
> Leia is ****ed at Han Solo" look. Sparked again. Nuttin. Not good,
> especially since its Valentine's day and she's waiting to be taken to
> dinner. So the torch waits while we have dinner at Olive Garden and
> take in a movie (Coraline in case you were wondering, yes it was worth
> $19.50).
>
> OK, so I was lighting a torch. Sunday comes and I start checking. Gas
> at the tank valves, check. Pressure on both reg. guages for each reg.,
> check. Gas at the end of the hoses, check. Gas through the torch body,
> check. Gas at the tip??? nope. So I take a close look and remember
> VeeDubber's mantra about everything made by H-F. Take it apart. Clean
> it out. Adjust it. Put it back together the way it was supposed to
> have been. Seems some (insert slur of your choice here) varnished over
> the end of the tip and clogged the lil' hole. OH, so THAT'S what that
> nail-file and set of feeler-guages in the case are for. They ain't
> feeler guages at all. They're tip cleaners. So I file the end of the
> tip square, just enuf to get the varnish off. Then a dip in acetone,
> followed by poking a hole in the "hole" and repeating with
> progressively larger cleaners until all of the varnish has been
> removed.
>
> Reattached the tip to the torch body, cracked the valves and
> Hiiisssssssss. Sounds good. With torch in one hand and striker in
> other, I open the acet. valve, squeeze the sparker and POOF!
>
> Yes my friends, I've made fire! Quickly opened the O2 valve and
> adjusted the flame. WOOHOO! Looks just like the book! Called
> LadyFriend to come with camera. Shut off torch. She comes out with the
> "now???" look. Then its "Hey honey, watch this... hiss, poof, roar,
> squeeeee, AAAHHHHHH! (angels singing in background). She takes a few
> photos for posterity.
>
> Now, for the really fun part. 50/50 mix of water and muriatic acid.
> Add nasty old chunks of galv. fence railing. Bubble, bubble, hiss,
> hiss! My future welding coupons go through the whole mad scientist
> routine. And I dunno what those fumes were coming off the metal, but
> gawd man, don't breathe them! 3 minutes later, one end of each of
> piece is etched and zinc-free! Cool!
>
> I'm sure its been done millions of times before, but to me it felt
> like a rite of passage. I've wanted a welding torch since I was about
> 6. Now I've got one. Lookout!
>
> Harry Frey
>
> PS: Thanks VeeDub, Mike H., FighFlyer, and everyone else over the past
> 8 years.


Well, Harry, like Mrs. Hickam told Homer...

"don't blow yourself up!"

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> wright1902glider wrote:
>> Behold fellow aviators, for I have finally lighted that damned welding
>> torch that I got for Christmas...last year. Yep, bought a "b" tank and
>> an empty 40cu/ft oxy. tank off Ebay from Indiana Oxygen Co. Shipped
>> out next day and items were exactly as described. And free shipping!
>> Swapped it out at AirGas here in Boulder and paid way too much for the
>> refills, but... Also got my requisite RG45 rod and shade 5 goggles.
>> So far so good.
>>
>> Went home, followed directions, purged, set up, connected, checked,
>> tested, etc. Turned on gas and sparked. Nuttin. Lady-friend is
>> standing there with camera in hand freezing, giving me the "Princess
>> Leia is ****ed at Han Solo" look. Sparked again. Nuttin. Not good,
>> especially since its Valentine's day and she's waiting to be taken to
>> dinner. So the torch waits while we have dinner at Olive Garden and
>> take in a movie (Coraline in case you were wondering, yes it was worth
>> $19.50).
>>
>> OK, so I was lighting a torch. Sunday comes and I start checking. Gas
>> at the tank valves, check. Pressure on both reg. guages for each reg.,
>> check. Gas at the end of the hoses, check. Gas through the torch body,
>> check. Gas at the tip??? nope. So I take a close look and remember
>> VeeDubber's mantra about everything made by H-F. Take it apart. Clean
>> it out. Adjust it. Put it back together the way it was supposed to
>> have been. Seems some (insert slur of your choice here) varnished over
>> the end of the tip and clogged the lil' hole. OH, so THAT'S what that
>> nail-file and set of feeler-guages in the case are for. They ain't
>> feeler guages at all. They're tip cleaners. So I file the end of the
>> tip square, just enuf to get the varnish off. Then a dip in acetone,
>> followed by poking a hole in the "hole" and repeating with
>> progressively larger cleaners until all of the varnish has been
>> removed.
>>
>> Reattached the tip to the torch body, cracked the valves and
>> Hiiisssssssss. Sounds good. With torch in one hand and striker in
>> other, I open the acet. valve, squeeze the sparker and POOF!
>>
>> Yes my friends, I've made fire! Quickly opened the O2 valve and
>> adjusted the flame. WOOHOO! Looks just like the book! Called
>> LadyFriend to come with camera. Shut off torch. She comes out with the
>> "now???" look. Then its "Hey honey, watch this... hiss, poof, roar,
>> squeeeee, AAAHHHHHH! (angels singing in background). She takes a few
>> photos for posterity.
>>
>> Now, for the really fun part. 50/50 mix of water and muriatic acid.
>> Add nasty old chunks of galv. fence railing. Bubble, bubble, hiss,
>> hiss! My future welding coupons go through the whole mad scientist
>> routine. And I dunno what those fumes were coming off the metal, but
>> gawd man, don't breathe them! 3 minutes later, one end of each of
>> piece is etched and zinc-free! Cool!
>>
>> I'm sure its been done millions of times before, but to me it felt
>> like a rite of passage. I've wanted a welding torch since I was about
>> 6. Now I've got one. Lookout!
>>
>> Harry Frey
>>
>> PS: Thanks VeeDub, Mike H., FighFlyer, and everyone else over the past
>> 8 years.
>
>
> Well, Harry, like Mrs. Hickam told Homer...
>
> "don't blow yourself up!"
>

Or, as most mothers would say "If you kill yourself don't come crying
to me."

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Morgans[_2_]]

"wright1902glider" > wrote

> Add nasty old chunks of galv. fence railing. Bubble, bubble, hiss,
> hiss! My future welding coupons go through the whole mad scientist
> routine. And I dunno what those fumes were coming off the metal, but
> gawd man, don't breathe them! 3 minutes later, one end of each of
> piece is etched and zinc-free! Cool!

Welcome to the world of constructive fire! My favorite mantra is "control
your molten puddle." Learn how to keep it at the right temperature, and to
move it around at your command, and you will be well on your way.

One thing about this zinc thing that you may not know. It is really bad,
bad stuff to breath, and it does not take much to mess you up.

If you want to have a bad case of the "I wanna puke, and die's" or reverse
of that order, work with zinc heated to high temps, without the wind (or a
fan) at your back, for 5 minutes. Then you get the headache that make most
hang-overs look like no problem at all. Oh, and it will last until you
sleep it off, in most cases.

So if you did not know about that, take heed. Zinc is for metal that does
not rust, not for turning into smoke and sucking into your lungs.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

"jan olieslagers" > wrote

> Help help help! Even disregarding the elusive vocabulary of a certain
> guru, it is most obvious welding will NEVER be my cup of tea. All of the
> above pitfalls were clear to me with only a hacksaw, a screwdriver and a
> broom in my "workshop"; actually I am beginning to wonder what keeps me
> lurking around here. Sigh.

Nonsense!

Trained monkeys can even learn to weld! Why should they have all of the
fun!

Putter around with it, do some reading, and ask questions, and if you can,
get someone who is good to come over and give you a lesson, and watch how he
does it. It really does help to see what it looks like, when it is all
going right.
--
Jim in NC

[cavelamb[_2_]]

http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleZenWelding.html

Back in the 60's (which really isn't all that long ago for some of us), one of
the tomes that was required reading for any-one seeking spiritual enlightenment
and the right to wear a tie-dyed shirt was the book, Zen and the Art of
Motorcycle Maintenance.

The basic premise of the book was that the spirit of the Buddha (don't get me
off on religion, I was raised Methodist and didn't understand THAT either),
could be invested in things mechanical, like a motorcycle, just as well as it
could in living, breathing organisms. The author, Robert Pirsig, viewed the
motorcycle as a mechanical- spiritual organism and the repair of it as a
religious experience.

Yeah, I know. What does this have to do with welding?

I had totally forgotten the book until the other day when I was chasing the
front edge of a weld bead down into the metal with my trusty Smith airline
torch. My world totally disappeared and was replaced by one the size of a pea
that glistened and flowed at the end of the fiery blue cone of my torch. As I
sat there, postively disappearing into the warmth and liquidity at the very
front edge of the tiny, molten puddle, I suddenly felt as if I, too, was having
a religious experience, albeit, a hot one, but still an experience. It was as if
the puddle was alive and I was trying to train it to do my command. It was no
longer steel and fire. It was something growing that was striving to unite two
pieces of inanimate steel into something with a soul that flies.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"jan olieslagers" > wrote
>
> Help help help! Even disregarding the elusive vocabulary of a certain
> guru, it is most obvious welding will NEVER be my cup of tea. All of the
> above pitfalls were clear to me with only a hacksaw, a screwdriver and a
> broom in my "workshop"; actually I am beginning to wonder what keeps me
> lurking around here. Sigh.

Oh, and don't forget one of the greatest tricks of all!

Set your torch just right, then snuff it out on a piece of wood, without
turning either gas off. Stick the end of the torch in a garbage bag, and
fill it up. Use a kitchen size, if you fear the big one!

Then, and only if you are in a place where nobody will call the cops when a
loud bomb sound goes off, and you are not in a building where you could blow
windows out, tie the bag off, relight your torch, and stick the flame up
against the garbage bag.

To say that you can expect a really loud bang is possibly the understatement
of the year!

Fun stuff, I tell you!
--
Jim in NC

[Tech Support]

Harry

A suggestion.

If you have a Comunity College close, check and they will probably
have a course in welding.

Use:

Their gas
Their torches.
Their practice pieces.
Their hands on instructor.

Not expensive and will give you some hands on experience before you
start at home.

The one I went to we basicaly stuck iron together but I still have
that as a back ground and have now welded some alum, etc.

Enjoy the set. Fun to play with and fix and make things.

Big John

************************************************** ********

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:33:01 -0800 (PST), wright1902glider
> wrote:

>Behold fellow aviators, for I have finally lighted that damned welding
>torch that I got for Christmas...last year. Yep, bought a "b" tank and
>an empty 40cu/ft oxy. tank off Ebay from Indiana Oxygen Co. Shipped
>out next day and items were exactly as described. And free shipping!
>Swapped it out at AirGas here in Boulder and paid way too much for the
>refills, but... Also got my requisite RG45 rod and shade 5 goggles.
>So far so good.
>
>Went home, followed directions, purged, set up, connected, checked,
>tested, etc. Turned on gas and sparked. Nuttin. Lady-friend is
>standing there with camera in hand freezing, giving me the "Princess
>Leia is ****ed at Han Solo" look. Sparked again. Nuttin. Not good,
>especially since its Valentine's day and she's waiting to be taken to
>dinner. So the torch waits while we have dinner at Olive Garden and
>take in a movie (Coraline in case you were wondering, yes it was worth
>$19.50).
>
>OK, so I was lighting a torch. Sunday comes and I start checking. Gas
>at the tank valves, check. Pressure on both reg. guages for each reg.,
>check. Gas at the end of the hoses, check. Gas through the torch body,
>check. Gas at the tip??? nope. So I take a close look and remember
>VeeDubber's mantra about everything made by H-F. Take it apart. Clean
>it out. Adjust it. Put it back together the way it was supposed to
>have been. Seems some (insert slur of your choice here) varnished over
>the end of the tip and clogged the lil' hole. OH, so THAT'S what that
>nail-file and set of feeler-guages in the case are for. They ain't
>feeler guages at all. They're tip cleaners. So I file the end of the
>tip square, just enuf to get the varnish off. Then a dip in acetone,
>followed by poking a hole in the "hole" and repeating with
>progressively larger cleaners until all of the varnish has been
>removed.
>
>Reattached the tip to the torch body, cracked the valves and
>Hiiisssssssss. Sounds good. With torch in one hand and striker in
>other, I open the acet. valve, squeeze the sparker and POOF!
>
>Yes my friends, I've made fire! Quickly opened the O2 valve and
>adjusted the flame. WOOHOO! Looks just like the book! Called
>LadyFriend to come with camera. Shut off torch. She comes out with the
>"now???" look. Then its "Hey honey, watch this... hiss, poof, roar,
>squeeeee, AAAHHHHHH! (angels singing in background). She takes a few
>photos for posterity.
>
>Now, for the really fun part. 50/50 mix of water and muriatic acid.
>Add nasty old chunks of galv. fence railing. Bubble, bubble, hiss,
>hiss! My future welding coupons go through the whole mad scientist
>routine. And I dunno what those fumes were coming off the metal, but
>gawd man, don't breathe them! 3 minutes later, one end of each of
>piece is etched and zinc-free! Cool!
>
>I'm sure its been done millions of times before, but to me it felt
>like a rite of passage. I've wanted a welding torch since I was about
>6. Now I've got one. Lookout!
>
>Harry Frey
>
>PS: Thanks VeeDub, Mike H., FighFlyer, and everyone else over the past
>8 years.

[flash]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "jan olieslagers" > wrote
>>
>> Help help help! Even disregarding the elusive vocabulary of a certain
>> guru, it is most obvious welding will NEVER be my cup of tea. All of the
>> above pitfalls were clear to me with only a hacksaw, a screwdriver and a
>> broom in my "workshop"; actually I am beginning to wonder what keeps me
>> lurking around here. Sigh.
>
> Oh, and don't forget one of the greatest tricks of all!
>
> Set your torch just right, then snuff it out on a piece of wood, without
> turning either gas off. Stick the end of the torch in a garbage bag, and
> fill it up. Use a kitchen size, if you fear the big one!
>
> Then, and only if you are in a place where nobody will call the cops when
> a loud bomb sound goes off, and you are not in a building where you could
> blow windows out, tie the bag off, relight your torch, and stick the flame
> up against the garbage bag.
>
> To say that you can expect a really loud bang is possibly the
> understatement of the year!
>
> Fun stuff, I tell you!
> --
> Jim in NC
>

Wowie ! 32 whoe gallons of WHAM ! Jim, couldn't you advise him to start
small, like maybe a 16 oz styrofoam cup, then covered over with a sheet of
paper and detonated off the bench? Even that is enough to mimic a minor
blizzard with flakes of the white stuff sixteen feet into the rafters.

32 gallons ? I must have been a bit shy in my youth, because I never got
over a gallon lunchbag tied off and dropped on a neighboring workbench -
then do a sudden move to the back of the shop awaiting the fun. But I only
did this to McClintock because he stuffed a piece of turkey skin from HIS
lunch into the nozzle of my mig gun when I wasn't looking.

And the day after that Mac wiped a bunch of peanut butter in the joint where
Jimmy had to start up after lunch.

And Mac also put a cloth soaked in varsol in the half-full 10 gallon
galvanized trash can under my bench while I was up on the bench, inside a
big fit-up . . yeah, it caught.

And the fun continued for a season.

Flash

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> Oh, and don't forget one of the greatest tricks of all!
>
> Set your torch just right, then snuff it out on a piece of wood, without
> turning either gas off. Stick the end of the torch in a garbage bag, and
> fill it up. Use a kitchen size, if you fear the big one!
>

You are either really bad at adjusting a torch, or you have never really
done this.

Something as small as a half gallon milk carton can be deadly, and plenty of
bang for the buck. A garbage bag could easily kill someone.

I saw a 6' joint of 4" heavy wall pipe launch a dead rat over 1000'.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 18, 12:01*am, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

> Something as small as a half gallon milk carton can be deadly, and plenty of
> bang for the buck. A garbage bag could easily kill someone.

Naw. Been there, done that.

But I won't do it again ........ at least not from rag wrapped
welding rod ignitor distance :-)

Fortunately the garage door was open or I'd have been replacing some
windows. Eh? What was that you say? SPEAK UP MAN!

Core fracture on a large (H) homemade rocket motor is much more
impressive. Found out months later the neighbor thought our grill
propane bottle had blown up. The fact that he didn't call 911? Let's
just say he has seen us in action before .........................
Said HIS house didn't get any fall out and he didn't see any flames so
everything was good.
=======================
Leon - still have all fingers and toes - McAtee
..

[Maxwell[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
On Feb 18, 12:01 am, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:

> Something as small as a half gallon milk carton can be deadly, and plenty
> of
> bang for the buck. A garbage bag could easily kill someone.

Naw. Been there, done that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Leon, but I don't believe you either, and it's very irresponsible to
spin such nonsense on a public form. Someone might very well try it.

But I will leave it to the general readership to test this myth....

Everyone take an 8 ounce foam cup, and place it upside down on the very edge
of a table. Leave just a 1/4" crack or so to fill the cup.

Put on your safety glasses, I personally recommend a full face shield.

Now start your torch and adjust it for a nice clean, but not lean burn.
Something that gives you the best welding or cutting action.

Gently touch the tip face down on piece of scrap wood or metal. It will pop
and go out.

Now fill the cup for a few seconds.

Withdraw the torch and strike it quickly to light.

Then immediately pass the torch near the edge of the cup. You should be able
to do this in just a couple of seconds.

After experiencing the report of the cup experiment, about 10 times the pop
of a cup type striker, try to imaging multiplying the magnitude of the cup
experiment by 500 and let us know what you think.

For those of you with pacemakers, just pop a well mixed torch with a cup
type striker, and multiply by 5000.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 18, 9:12*am, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...

> Sorry Leon, but I don't believe you either, and it's very irresponsible to
> spin such nonsense on a public form. Someone might very well try it.

Believe what you will. I'm comfortable with what I know.
=======================
Leon McAtee

[[email protected]]

On Feb 17, 11:17 pm, "Flash" > wrote:

> Wowie ! 32 whoe gallons of WHAM ! Jim, couldn't you advise him to start
> small, like maybe a 16 oz styrofoam cup, then covered over with a sheet of
> paper and detonated off the bench? Even that is enough to mimic a minor
> blizzard with flakes of the white stuff sixteen feet into the rafters.

The last time I did the oxyacetylene-in-the-bag thing it blew
up in my hand. Either a tiny bit of glowing carbon on or in the tip,
or static electricity between the bag and torch. Anyway, there were a
bunch of us that couldn't hear too good for a week after that. That
was 20 years ago and I haven't done it since.
We used to use a rolled-up paper fuse taped to the tied-off bag
and get well away from it. The concussion is amazing. And we never
used anything larger than maybe a gallon bag.

> 32 gallons ? I must have been a bit shy in my youth, because I never got
> over a gallon lunchbag tied off and dropped on a neighboring workbench -
> then do a sudden move to the back of the shop awaiting the fun. But I only
> did this to McClintock because he stuffed a piece of turkey skin from HIS
> lunch into the nozzle of my mig gun when I wasn't looking.
>
> And the day after that Mac wiped a bunch of peanut butter in the joint where
> Jimmy had to start up after lunch.
>
> And Mac also put a cloth soaked in varsol in the half-full 10 gallon
> galvanized trash can under my bench while I was up on the bench, inside a
> big fit-up . . yeah, it caught.
>
> And the fun continued for a season.

In the shop years ago the practical jokes kept morale up.
Grease--lots of it--in the hearing protectors. Putting a guy's radio
in the cabinet pressure washer (80 degree water with caustic, sprayed
under much pressure), especially if he liked music you didn't.
Bringing an empty chip-dip container and putting Lubriplate in it and
opening it at coffee time with some chips and letting the greedy guys
grab a chip and a big gob of "dip" and scarfing it down. Screwing down
a lunchbox to a bench. Plastic coffee cups: Drill a hole in the bottom
and screw it down. Or drill a tiny hole just underneath the handle so
it pees all over. Or just below the lip so it dribbles down the shirt
when it's tilted. Lots of fun.
The best one: I took some peanut butter to work and clued in all
the guys except the new guy. Went outside into the compound, smeared
some peanut butter on the edge of my boot sole, and went back in. One
of the guys said, "Hey, Dan...you step in something out there?"
I looked at it. "Yeah. Looks like it, huh? Maybe that stupid dog
from the junkyard next door dug under the fence again. Wish he'd poop
in his own yard." I scraped a big gob off with my finger. "Looks like
his." Smelled it. "Think so." Tasted it: "Yup. It's him again." Ate
the rest of it.
The new guy's eyes were the biggest I'd ever seen. "You're
weird! You eat poop! Get away from me!" Took some time for him to
figure it out.

> Flash

We had a guy we nicknamed "Flash." Because he was so slow until the
break or quitting time buzzer sounded, whereupon his speed was
amazing.

Dan

[Brian Whatcott]

Maxwell wrote:
....
>
> I saw a 6' joint of 4" heavy wall pipe launch a dead rat over 1000'.
>
>
>
Now I've heard plenty of gas torch brags, but doesn't this one
just beat the band?

:-)

Brian W

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Brian Whatcott" > wrote in message
...
> Maxwell wrote:
> ...
>>
>> I saw a 6' joint of 4" heavy wall pipe launch a dead rat over 1000'.
>>
>>
>>
> Now I've heard plenty of gas torch brags, but doesn't this one
> just beat the band?
>
> :-)
>
> Brian W

Actually I can't take credit for it, but I did witness it years ago on my
shift. One of the funnier things I have seen. The rat traveled hundreds of
feet through and industrial shop, clearing two overhead bridge cranes and
exiting the building through a crane way door at the end of the building. It
was winter time and the main doors were closed. I think the funniest part
was the vapor trail. He was literally smoking and leaving a faint trail as
he left. He had been caught near the lunch tables on a 480 volt rat trap, so
we actually smoked him twice.

[jerry wass]

Maxwell wrote:
> "Brian Whatcott" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Maxwell wrote:
>> ...
>>> I saw a 6' joint of 4" heavy wall pipe launch a dead rat over 1000'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Now I've heard plenty of gas torch brags, but doesn't this one
>> just beat the band?
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Brian W
>
> Actually I can't take credit for it, but I did witness it years ago on my
> shift. One of the funnier things I have seen. The rat traveled hundreds of
> feet through and industrial shop, clearing two overhead bridge cranes and
> exiting the building through a crane way door at the end of the building. It
> was winter time and the main doors were closed. I think the funniest part
> was the vapor trail. He was literally smoking and leaving a faint trail as
> he left. He had been caught near the lunch tables on a 480 volt rat trap, so
> we actually smoked him twice.
>
>
>What did you use for a sabot ??---It looks like the aerodynamic drag on a rats
carcass would be pretty high..Jerry

>
>
>
>

[Dan[_12_]]

Jerry Wass wrote:
> Maxwell wrote:
>> "Brian Whatcott" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Maxwell wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> I saw a 6' joint of 4" heavy wall pipe launch a dead rat over 1000'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Now I've heard plenty of gas torch brags, but doesn't this one
>>> just beat the band?
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Brian W
>>
>> Actually I can't take credit for it, but I did witness it years ago on
>> my shift. One of the funnier things I have seen. The rat traveled
>> hundreds of feet through and industrial shop, clearing two overhead
>> bridge cranes and exiting the building through a crane way door at the
>> end of the building. It was winter time and the main doors were
>> closed. I think the funniest part was the vapor trail. He was
>> literally smoking and leaving a faint trail as he left. He had been
>> caught near the lunch tables on a 480 volt rat trap, so we actually
>> smoked him twice.
>>
>>
>> What did you use for a sabot ??---It looks like the aerodynamic drag
>> on a rats
> carcass would be pretty high..Jerry
>

You have to sharpen their noses.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>> What did you use for a sabot ??---It looks like the aerodynamic drag on
>>> a rats
>> carcass would be pretty high..Jerry
>>
>
> You have to sharpen their noses.
>

I think the sabot was an old wash cloth. The used to buy worn towels by the
pound from a towel rental service.

There did appear to be a great deal of drag, the contrail was very
turbulent. But man.....was he stable!

I guess we should ask not who gives a rats ass about drag....but who can
give us the drag of a rats ass?

[flash]

"Brian Whatcott" > wrote in message
...
> Maxwell wrote:
> ...
>>
>> I saw a 6' joint of 4" heavy wall pipe launch a dead rat over 1000'.
>>
>>
>>
> Now I've heard plenty of gas torch brags, but doesn't this one
> just beat the band?
>
> :-)
>
> Brian W

Not so, Brian. The shop I worked in in 1967, the Postal truck ran over
"Freddie", the three-legged cat shop mascot. Killed the poor fellow, and
the welder gave him a big send-off. At the time, he was fabricating a
sign-pole with a 20' piece of 6" pipe, and had already welded the cap on the
end, and had punched the hole for the electrical wires, four feet from the
cap. He stuffed a handfull of paint-rags down the tube to the hole for
wadding and rammed Freddie's carcass down the tube, propped the pipe out the
window and sort of aimed it for the tree-line a hundred yards west of the
cornfield. He filled the charge through the electrical hole, and touched it
off. Freddie went well into the woods, while the pipe recoiled through the
wall into the executive washroom where a young (and somewhat nervous) shop
owner was, at the moment, taking his morning constitutional.

When the plaster dust setttled, he came into the shop, with his pants still
unbuckeld and mentioned in a very quiet voice, that he was taking the rest
of the day off, and sincerely hoped that such disturbances would be confined
to hours when he was at the golf course or the synagogue.

Then, there was also the 2-1/2 inch pipe that they fashioned distinctly for
use as a mortar, to launch Freddie's empty cat-food cans directly 150 feet
up. The crew used to do that just about the end of lunch hour, when the
sheet-metal guy and I were coming around the building returning from lunch.
After Freddie's unfortunate demise, there were no empty cans, so one hot,
humid July lunchtime, they used a full can of Freddie's favorite tuna
catfood. You would just know that the can exploded just as it cleared the
muzzle and we all spent the last of the afternoon smelling of - - -bad tuna.

My wife wouldn't believe anything I told her about it until the sheet-metal
guy and his wife stopped over and explained it all. She thought I had been
somewhere else for a *different* kind of lunch.

Oh, it works, alright.

[Anyolmouse]

"Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote in message
...
>
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Oh, and don't forget one of the greatest tricks of all!
> >
> > Set your torch just right, then snuff it out on a piece of wood,
without
> > turning either gas off. Stick the end of the torch in a garbage
bag, and
> > fill it up. Use a kitchen size, if you fear the big one!
> >
>
> You are either really bad at adjusting a torch, or you have never
really
> done this.
>
> Something as small as a half gallon milk carton can be deadly, and
plenty of
> bang for the buck. A garbage bag could easily kill someone.
>
> I saw a 6' joint of 4" heavy wall pipe launch a dead rat over 1000'.
>
>
>

Seems to be plenty of people out there doing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4USIrt8aWk
Several other videos on the same page.

We used to go fishing for catfish in a local creek when I was just a
kid, using carbide lantern pellets.

--
Anyolmouse

[Stuart Fields]

"Flash" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Brian Whatcott" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Maxwell wrote:
>> ...
>>>
>>> I saw a 6' joint of 4" heavy wall pipe launch a dead rat over 1000'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Now I've heard plenty of gas torch brags, but doesn't this one
>> just beat the band?
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Brian W
>
> Not so, Brian. The shop I worked in in 1967, the Postal truck ran over
> "Freddie", the three-legged cat shop mascot. Killed the poor fellow, and
> the welder gave him a big send-off. At the time, he was fabricating a
> sign-pole with a 20' piece of 6" pipe, and had already welded the cap on
> the end, and had punched the hole for the electrical wires, four feet from
> the cap. He stuffed a handfull of paint-rags down the tube to the hole for
> wadding and rammed Freddie's carcass down the tube, propped the pipe out
> the window and sort of aimed it for the tree-line a hundred yards west of
> the cornfield. He filled the charge through the electrical hole, and
> touched it off. Freddie went well into the woods, while the pipe recoiled
> through the wall into the executive washroom where a young (and somewhat
> nervous) shop owner was, at the moment, taking his morning constitutional.
>
> When the plaster dust setttled, he came into the shop, with his pants
> still unbuckeld and mentioned in a very quiet voice, that he was taking
> the rest of the day off, and sincerely hoped that such disturbances would
> be confined to hours when he was at the golf course or the synagogue.
>
> Then, there was also the 2-1/2 inch pipe that they fashioned distinctly
> for use as a mortar, to launch Freddie's empty cat-food cans directly 150
> feet up. The crew used to do that just about the end of lunch hour, when
> the sheet-metal guy and I were coming around the building returning from
> lunch. After Freddie's unfortunate demise, there were no empty cans, so
> one hot, humid July lunchtime, they used a full can of Freddie's favorite
> tuna catfood. You would just know that the can exploded just as it
> cleared the muzzle and we all spent the last of the afternoon smelling
> of - - -bad tuna.
>
> My wife wouldn't believe anything I told her about it until the
> sheet-metal guy and his wife stopped over and explained it all. She
> thought I had been somewhere else for a *different* kind of lunch.
>
> Oh, it works, alright.


OK Flash. You are responsible for what you do in public. You are going to
be sued by a couple of guys who read your cat cannon story and it caused
them to rip some stitches from a recent operation. We'll get their names as
soon as they quit making funny noises and rolling around on the floor. The
ripped stitches were bad enough but somehow it affected bladder control as
well.

[Brian Whatcott]

Flash wrote:
> "Brian Whatcott" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Maxwell wrote:
>> ...
>>> I saw a 6' joint of 4" heavy wall pipe launch a dead rat over 1000'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Now I've heard plenty of gas torch brags, but doesn't this one
>> just beat the band?
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Brian W
>
> Not so, Brian. The shop I worked in in 1967, the Postal truck ran over
> "Freddie", the three-legged cat shop mascot. Killed the poor fellow, and
> the welder gave him a big send-off. At the time, he was fabricating a
> sign-pole with a 20' piece of 6" pipe, and had already welded the cap on the
> end, and had punched the hole for the electrical wires, four feet from the
> cap. He stuffed a handful of paint-rags down the tube to the hole for
> wadding and rammed Freddie's carcass down the tube, propped the pipe out the
> window and sort of aimed it for the tree-line a hundred yards west of the
> cornfield. He filled the charge through the electrical hole, and touched it
> off. Freddie went well into the woods, while the pipe recoiled through the
> wall into the executive washroom where a young (and somewhat nervous) shop
> owner was, at the moment, taking his morning constitutional.
>
> When the plaster dust settled, he came into the shop, with his pants still
> unbuckled and mentioned in a very quiet voice, that he was taking the rest
> of the day off, and sincerely hoped that such disturbances would be confined
> to hours when he was at the golf course or the synagogue.
>
> Then, there was also the 2-1/2 inch pipe that they fashioned distinctly for
> use as a mortar, to launch Freddie's empty cat-food cans directly 150 feet
> up. The crew used to do that just about the end of lunch hour, when the
> sheet-metal guy and I were coming around the building returning from lunch.
> After Freddie's unfortunate demise, there were no empty cans, so one hot,
> humid July lunchtime, they used a full can of Freddie's favorite tuna
> catfood. You would just know that the can exploded just as it cleared the
> muzzle and we all spent the last of the afternoon smelling of - - -bad tuna.
>
> My wife wouldn't believe anything I told her about it until the sheet-metal
> guy and his wife stopped over and explained it all. She thought I had been
> somewhere else for a *different* kind of lunch.
>
> Oh, it works, alright.
>
>
Great story, Flash!

Thanks
BrianW

[gorgon]

*----
>
> Sorry Leon, but I don't believe you either, and it's very irresponsible to
> spin such nonsense on a public form. Someone might very well try it.
>
> But I will leave it to the general readership to test this myth....
>
>

I agree that it would be irresponsible for someone to suggest doing
something as audacious as what Leon reported. So.in the spirit of
being audacious......


Believe Leon.....I was there.......If the garage door hadn't been
open, all the windows would have been gone. It did take the hearing
quite some time to return to normal. I also learned about something
called stepedial reflex, where the ear locks up to prevent damage from
loud, sudden noise. The hearing does return...sometimes.
There was a similar event involving tieing a similar bag to a large
sagebrush and launching an Estes rocket next to it. We learned how
Hollywood fakes large explosive fireballs that day.....just use an
excess of C2H2.

And then there was the whole model V2 rocket episode that we won't go
into. It seems that a 20 guage shotgun shell fits the old BT-20
rocket bodies.

As I ALWAYS admonish my high school students. NEVER DO THIS AT
HOME......Go to a neighbors house.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"gorgon" > wrote in message
...
*----
>
> Sorry Leon, but I don't believe you either, and it's very irresponsible to
> spin such nonsense on a public form. Someone might very well try it.
>
> But I will leave it to the general readership to test this myth....
>
>

I agree that it would be irresponsible for someone to suggest doing
something as audacious as what Leon reported. So.in the spirit of
being audacious......


Believe Leon.....I was there.......If the garage door hadn't been
open, all the windows would have been gone.

--------------------------------------------------

Ok fine, but if you want ME to believe it, next time you and Leon get
together set up a video camera and do it again.

I find it extremely hard to believe anyone could detonate 55 or even 32
gallons of properly mixed gas, while standing beside it, and not suffer
extreme injury or even death. I would also not believe it possible to do
such in and average garage, even with the door open, and not do considerable
structural damage.

You are either not mixing the torch right, using smaller containers, or bull
****ting everyone about something that could get someone seriously injured.