HP310 and hx4705 - side by side, first impression

[Tuno]

Today I finally got to do a proper side-by-side comparison of an HP310
PNA and hx4705 PDA, each running SeeYou Mobile, under a bright sun and
in the glider cockpit.

In terms of screen performance under the Arizona sun, I could hardly
tell the difference between the two. If the HP310 was easier to read,
it was only slightly so.

In terms of software performance, the HP310 runs circles around the
hx4705, as one would expect. The release candidate version of SeeYou
Mobile (RC1) still has a little tweaking left to go but the crew at
Naviter has done an impressive job with it so far getting it to run on
Windows CE.

I still prefer touch screen systems and if and when a PNA comes along
with the brightness of the ClearNav or Ultimate, it will be very hard
to pass up.

I should also note that most of the popup menus on the 310 were nearly
impossible to read without good reading glasses. My computer readers
were not enough (the reader portion of my prescription bifocal tint
sunglasses).

If I were looking to upgrade from an existing HP PDA (39xx, 47xx) to a
PNA, I would hold off for the time being. The cost to do so would only
get you some software performance increase, and that's about it. I
would wait until a bigger difference in screen sunlight performance is
available.

If I were looking to establish a new PNA/PDA system in my glider, I
would certainly recommend the HP310. You can pick them up on ebay for
under $150. You'll spend more than that on the cradle, power and
serial-to-Bluetooth hardware.

~ted/2NO

[5Z]

Has anyone tried the Navigon with SeeYou mobile? How does it compare
in performance? The price looks competitive with the 310.

-Tom

[Eric Greenwell]

5Z wrote:
> Has anyone tried the Navigon with SeeYou mobile? How does it compare
> in performance? The price looks competitive with the 310.

What is the reason for considering it over the already supported 310?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Darryl Ramm]

On Feb 21, 5:35*pm, 5Z > wrote:
> Has anyone tried the Navigon with SeeYou mobile? *How does it compare
> in performance? *The price looks competitive with the 310.
>
> -Tom

As has been pointed out on the Naviter forums the Navigon has 480 X
272 display, the iPAQ 310 is 800 x 480 and although the displays are
small the iPAQ 310 display looks *gorgeous*. The iPAQ 310 is the PNA
to have right now.

--

I have two iPAQ 4700 PDAs and an iPAQ 310. Indoors the 310 blows away
the 4700. The 310 uses LED backlight technology and the 4700 uses cold
cathode. The color temperature is higher on the LEDs and the cold
cathodes look yellowish compared to the nice white backlight on the
310.

Outdoors in sunlight (but not directly on the screen) the iPAQ 310 is
easier to see than either of my iPAQ 4700's. A friend who has an iPAQ
310, and iPAQ 211 and an iPAQ 4700 agrees the 310 is a bit more
legible than the 4700 outdoors but says the iPAQ 211 actually just
beats the 310.

With any of these devices with SeeYou Mobile I turn off terrain
mapping, increase default font sizes, increase line widths on maps
etc. to get a display that for me is most readable. Right now the iPAQ
310 takes more messing around to get this right because some of the UI
elements are a little small on such a high resolution screen - Naviter
is working on tweeking many of these things. The current SeeYou Mobile
"release candidate" was intend to gather UI feedback. They've done an
impressive job in getting this running across so many devices.

No common currently available PDA or PNA devices (with current
transreflective displays) are what I'd call visible in direct
sunlight. However with careful mounting. At a few hundred dollars the
iPAQ 310 is essentially disposable, and I'll be happy to junk it next
year if something better comes along. But I'd not be holding my breath
for OLED or other technology that quickly.

For serious installs you will need a K-6 Bluetooth adapter and it is
going to cost about the same as an iPAQ 310 on E-Bay etc. but should
outlast multiple PDAs/PNAs.

If you want to run say a web browser or other utilities on the PNA and
are not a heavy duty geek/hacker give up now and get a PDA. Many PNAs
have only a partial Windows CE install. Many (including the iPAQ 310)
don't have a command shell, some don't have a Windows CE explorer (the
iPAQ 310 does), most don't have a web browser, etc. etc. Naviter's
approach is these are closed boxes that you plug a SD card into and
you get SeeYou Mobile and ConnectMe and that is it. Which will suit
many pilots fine.


Darryl

[M C]

The 480 X 272 display on my Mio C320 also looks great with See You
installed- very bright and crisp. PN's are ok for back up devices.


At 02:40 22 February 2009, Darryl Ramm wrote:
>On Feb 21, 5:35=A0pm, 5Z wrote:
>> Has anyone tried the Navigon with SeeYou mobile? =A0How does it
compare
>> in performance? =A0The price looks competitive with the 310.
>>
>> -Tom
>
>As has been pointed out on the Naviter forums the Navigon has 480 X
>272 display, the iPAQ 310 is 800 x 480 and although the displays are
>small the iPAQ 310 display looks *gorgeous*. The iPAQ 310 is the PNA
>to have right now.
>
>--
>
>I have two iPAQ 4700 PDAs and an iPAQ 310. Indoors the 310 blows away
>the 4700. The 310 uses LED backlight technology and the 4700 uses cold
>cathode. The color temperature is higher on the LEDs and the cold
>cathodes look yellowish compared to the nice white backlight on the
>310.
>
>Outdoors in sunlight (but not directly on the screen) the iPAQ 310 is
>easier to see than either of my iPAQ 4700's. A friend who has an iPAQ
>310, and iPAQ 211 and an iPAQ 4700 agrees the 310 is a bit more
>legible than the 4700 outdoors but says the iPAQ 211 actually just
>beats the 310.
>
>With any of these devices with SeeYou Mobile I turn off terrain
>mapping, increase default font sizes, increase line widths on maps
>etc. to get a display that for me is most readable. Right now the iPAQ
>310 takes more messing around to get this right because some of the UI
>elements are a little small on such a high resolution screen - Naviter
>is working on tweeking many of these things. The current SeeYou Mobile
>"release candidate" was intend to gather UI feedback. They've done an
>impressive job in getting this running across so many devices.
>
>No common currently available PDA or PNA devices (with current
>transreflective displays) are what I'd call visible in direct
>sunlight. However with careful mounting. At a few hundred dollars the
>iPAQ 310 is essentially disposable, and I'll be happy to junk it next
>year if something better comes along. But I'd not be holding my breath
>for OLED or other technology that quickly.
>
>For serious installs you will need a K-6 Bluetooth adapter and it is
>going to cost about the same as an iPAQ 310 on E-Bay etc. but should
>outlast multiple PDAs/PNAs.
>
>If you want to run say a web browser or other utilities on the PNA and
>are not a heavy duty geek/hacker give up now and get a PDA. Many PNAs
>have only a partial Windows CE install. Many (including the iPAQ 310)
>don't have a command shell, some don't have a Windows CE explorer (the
>iPAQ 310 does), most don't have a web browser, etc. etc. Naviter's
>approach is these are closed boxes that you plug a SD card into and
>you get SeeYou Mobile and ConnectMe and that is it. Which will suit
>many pilots fine.
>
>
>Darryl
>
>

[M C]

The 480 X 272 display on my Mio C320 also looks great with See You
installed- very bright and crisp. PN's are ok for back up devices.


At 02:40 22 February 2009, Darryl Ramm wrote:
>On Feb 21, 5:35=A0pm, 5Z wrote:
>> Has anyone tried the Navigon with SeeYou mobile? =A0How does it
compare
>> in performance? =A0The price looks competitive with the 310.
>>
>> -Tom
>
>As has been pointed out on the Naviter forums the Navigon has 480 X
>272 display, the iPAQ 310 is 800 x 480 and although the displays are
>small the iPAQ 310 display looks *gorgeous*. The iPAQ 310 is the PNA
>to have right now.
>
>--
>
>I have two iPAQ 4700 PDAs and an iPAQ 310. Indoors the 310 blows away
>the 4700. The 310 uses LED backlight technology and the 4700 uses cold
>cathode. The color temperature is higher on the LEDs and the cold
>cathodes look yellowish compared to the nice white backlight on the
>310.
>
>Outdoors in sunlight (but not directly on the screen) the iPAQ 310 is
>easier to see than either of my iPAQ 4700's. A friend who has an iPAQ
>310, and iPAQ 211 and an iPAQ 4700 agrees the 310 is a bit more
>legible than the 4700 outdoors but says the iPAQ 211 actually just
>beats the 310.
>
>With any of these devices with SeeYou Mobile I turn off terrain
>mapping, increase default font sizes, increase line widths on maps
>etc. to get a display that for me is most readable. Right now the iPAQ
>310 takes more messing around to get this right because some of the UI
>elements are a little small on such a high resolution screen - Naviter
>is working on tweeking many of these things. The current SeeYou Mobile
>"release candidate" was intend to gather UI feedback. They've done an
>impressive job in getting this running across so many devices.
>
>No common currently available PDA or PNA devices (with current
>transreflective displays) are what I'd call visible in direct
>sunlight. However with careful mounting. At a few hundred dollars the
>iPAQ 310 is essentially disposable, and I'll be happy to junk it next
>year if something better comes along. But I'd not be holding my breath
>for OLED or other technology that quickly.
>
>For serious installs you will need a K-6 Bluetooth adapter and it is
>going to cost about the same as an iPAQ 310 on E-Bay etc. but should
>outlast multiple PDAs/PNAs.
>
>If you want to run say a web browser or other utilities on the PNA and
>are not a heavy duty geek/hacker give up now and get a PDA. Many PNAs
>have only a partial Windows CE install. Many (including the iPAQ 310)
>don't have a command shell, some don't have a Windows CE explorer (the
>iPAQ 310 does), most don't have a web browser, etc. etc. Naviter's
>approach is these are closed boxes that you plug a SD card into and
>you get SeeYou Mobile and ConnectMe and that is it. Which will suit
>many pilots fine.
>
>
>Darryl
>
>

[M C]

The 480 X 272 display on my Mio C320 also looks great with See You
installed- very bright and crisp. PN's are ok for back up devices.


At 02:40 22 February 2009, Darryl Ramm wrote:
>On Feb 21, 5:35=A0pm, 5Z wrote:
>> Has anyone tried the Navigon with SeeYou mobile? =A0How does it
compare
>> in performance? =A0The price looks competitive with the 310.
>>
>> -Tom
>
>As has been pointed out on the Naviter forums the Navigon has 480 X
>272 display, the iPAQ 310 is 800 x 480 and although the displays are
>small the iPAQ 310 display looks *gorgeous*. The iPAQ 310 is the PNA
>to have right now.
>
>--
>
>I have two iPAQ 4700 PDAs and an iPAQ 310. Indoors the 310 blows away
>the 4700. The 310 uses LED backlight technology and the 4700 uses cold
>cathode. The color temperature is higher on the LEDs and the cold
>cathodes look yellowish compared to the nice white backlight on the
>310.
>
>Outdoors in sunlight (but not directly on the screen) the iPAQ 310 is
>easier to see than either of my iPAQ 4700's. A friend who has an iPAQ
>310, and iPAQ 211 and an iPAQ 4700 agrees the 310 is a bit more
>legible than the 4700 outdoors but says the iPAQ 211 actually just
>beats the 310.
>
>With any of these devices with SeeYou Mobile I turn off terrain
>mapping, increase default font sizes, increase line widths on maps
>etc. to get a display that for me is most readable. Right now the iPAQ
>310 takes more messing around to get this right because some of the UI
>elements are a little small on such a high resolution screen - Naviter
>is working on tweeking many of these things. The current SeeYou Mobile
>"release candidate" was intend to gather UI feedback. They've done an
>impressive job in getting this running across so many devices.
>
>No common currently available PDA or PNA devices (with current
>transreflective displays) are what I'd call visible in direct
>sunlight. However with careful mounting. At a few hundred dollars the
>iPAQ 310 is essentially disposable, and I'll be happy to junk it next
>year if something better comes along. But I'd not be holding my breath
>for OLED or other technology that quickly.
>
>For serious installs you will need a K-6 Bluetooth adapter and it is
>going to cost about the same as an iPAQ 310 on E-Bay etc. but should
>outlast multiple PDAs/PNAs.
>
>If you want to run say a web browser or other utilities on the PNA and
>are not a heavy duty geek/hacker give up now and get a PDA. Many PNAs
>have only a partial Windows CE install. Many (including the iPAQ 310)
>don't have a command shell, some don't have a Windows CE explorer (the
>iPAQ 310 does), most don't have a web browser, etc. etc. Naviter's
>approach is these are closed boxes that you plug a SD card into and
>you get SeeYou Mobile and ConnectMe and that is it. Which will suit
>many pilots fine.
>
>
>Darryl
>
>

[Darryl Ramm]

On Feb 23, 8:45*am, M C > wrote:
> The 480 X 272 display on my Mio C320 also looks great with See You
> installed- very bright and crisp. *PN's are ok for back up devices.

We believed you the first time :-)

[M C]

At 18:55 23 February 2009, Darryl Ramm wrote:
>On Feb 23, 8:45=A0am, M C wrote:
>> The 480 X 272 display on my Mio C320 also looks great with See You
>> installed- very bright and crisp. =A0PN's are ok for back up devices.
>
>We believed you the first time :-)
>
Sorry about that.