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Bruce A. Frank
March 6th 09, 10:25 AM
Forwarded from the Bearhawk group. Read this. If you fly for recreation,
you may not be doing that much longer.

=========================
I apologize for the length of this but wanted people to realize what is
going on. This total insanity is being repeated at all 450 commercial
airports in the US and unless we can counter it will put an end to free
travel around the country for private pilots. I cant think of a better
illustration that our government is totally out of control and needs to
be reigned back in now!

Rod Smith


It seems “ they “ are at it again. We were told AOPA was quite
unaware of this Special Directive

While I am not the MTJ rep, and do not know who is (maybe you could tell
me) I attended, though I am the rep for Delta Blake field some 30
miles down the road, with some 60 plus others tonight, a meeting no one
had even heard about until two days ago. And really only email amongst
folks on the field and the EAA chapter caused anyone to be there. It
was a full house, even though the address given was incorrect. I would
guess the average age was 50 with a lot of former military and airline
pilots in attendance, or folks having other long time security
clearances professionally, and who were a bit amazed at all this. Nearly
all pilots.

Four TSA reps were there from Grand Junction , we think that is where
they were from: Rennie (sp?) Dunn, Chris Putnam, Dick Wiles and a
Peter Cook. Two never said a word, Wiles offered two or three
sentences, and Rennie carried the freight. They all left in the same US
Govt black SUV. One was reputed to be a former special forces Lt Col in
the mid east and therefore familiar with security concerns. Frankly,
none were very impressive but on the other hand, they had been
volunteered for a clearly thankless role.

The basic overall concept is another “Federal Unfunded Mandate”
which several in the crowed noted, in this case known as a Security
Directive affecting all individuals having access to commercial service
airports to become effective April 30.

Anyone wishing access after that date must, on only four near term days,
apply on a preliminary basis for security threat screening. Those
dates are 2/25/ 2/28 3/4 and 3/7.

Anyone not able to be present on those four near term dates must pay a
$50 fee to begin the screening process. Persons must bring approved
identification from the approved list to be found at
www.montroseairport.com

Reportedly the SD is fourteen pages, but no one except the TSA is
allowed to know what the rules are, as we ALL understood it, until or
unless you break one of the rules. Each of the four TSA people there
acknowledged they had seen the document. A Catch 22 - Alice in
Wonderland moment.

A question was raised, what redress or appeal process is available. The
answer was surely it would be reasonably handled.

A local prominent attny who was a former prosecuting attny opined that
not only is this all backwards, in his view it was simply
unconstitutional.

It presently appears that anyone on the ramp without a TSA ID is subject
to fines or convictions in unknown amounts and arrest or detainment by
unknown persons as it seems not to be known how enforcement will be
conducted, or by whom. The sole female TSA person, I could not fathom
or match the persons to the names, quietly said, the one time she even
dared look at the crowd, that patrolling would likely be random and
infrequent. Or something very like that.

Of course the question was then raised, why bother. No answer.

It further appears that each airport will need to conduct is own
application and fee process and then TSA will do the screening. It
further appears that each of the 450 commercially served airports will
have to issue its own security badges, raising a bit of an issue for
those who are professional pilots, travel to more than one airport, or,
put rather dramatically, stop for fuel at self service pumps. The self
service fuel vendor from Grand Junction , Colo traveled down to this
meeting and advised that at a similar meeting yesterday, the first time
fee for a screening and badge there will be $175 per person. Montrose
said their first badge will be free, and subsequent ones on expiry of
the first will be an as yet unknown amount. I myself flew three states
last weekend. The west is a bit larger than the area within the
beltway.

One fellow asked why not have identical badges at all airports so folks
know what to look for>

One on field commercial operator said it would be cost prohibitive for
all employees who might escort someone to be screened and badged. And
there are certainly are no excess personnel available for such duty.
The airport manager then volunteered the same answer for his staff.

A couple of ag spray operators who necessarily fly into a variety of
airports here, and are always on call from various counties, were a bit
troubled by the multiple badge requirement, and since they often are
called out to do SEAT wildland fire fighting as first responders, (until
from what I can see the BLM can figure out what to do,) they felt that
waiting for a badge to get fuel and slurry water might be just a bit of
an issue. How are they to anticipate where to apply, in advance? No
answer. Multiple pleas were made of one badge, nationally, and the
response was that concept would be taken back for discussion.

A local Colorado Dept of Wildlife pilot felt it might be a bit of a
burden to get credentials from all his typical airports, plus those for
the areas served by the other three pilots when they are on vacation, or
out of town, not to mention the economic costs, or the time to go and
apply at different places, etc.

Several FBO employees or free lance mechanics, or the Western Skyways
Engine shop to which has customer s routinely coming in from Brazil,
Mexico and other south and central American countries, were told,
directly, they will need to staff and accompany anyone not credentialed
who is on the field. All of course said this would break them
financially, and the self fuel operators said they too could not staff a
self fuel op 24 x 7.

It is clear the Montrose Airport Appreciation day, when several hundred
people visit with old classic cars, motorcycles, balloon rides, flybys,
the LIONS cooking hotdogs and burgers to raise funds, homebuilts on
display, Civil Air Patrol handling off tarmac vehicle parking and on
tarmac crowd control, Americana if you will, could be a bit of an issue
and the TSA suggested local law enforcement could somehow staff the
escort necessities on the field. How exactly do you escort a large
milling crowd? As it happens, I am also the Young Eagles-
Co-Coordinator for EAA chapter 1373. We typically have about 100 young
Eagles we fly with a variety of pilots on those fall days, and as a
general rule, with mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers; you could
expect maybe 300 or more people in the course of a day, not to mention
grand parents, media folk, etc as a part of that operation.

Montrose airport serves the ski crowd, and movie stars going to
Telluride, when A.) the particular aircraft can not get into Telluride
due to size or B.) Weather. And that field is to close shortly for
extended runway re-work. The Montrose FBO asked how he was to possibly
monitor 30 limousines simultaneously, not to mention accompanying or
escorting anyone within the vehicles, apart from getting changing and
independent drivers to apply for credentials. I have seen easily 30
limos there myself, this is not an exaggeration, may be an
understatement.

Questions were raised about what is or are the levels of thresholds for
pass/fail on a security clearance, no answer.

One asked the TSA folk to verify the fine was $10,000 a day. They could
not verify anything they said. Might be less.

Questions were raised about whether a DUI or childhood infraction would
be cause for a turndown, no answer.

A question was raised whether an existing fire arm permit would be
adequate. (Presumably concealed but unclear.) No answer.

Questions were raised about whether if a person were to escort someone
who had failed a clearance, but the escorter, not the escortee, did not
know it, if that escorting person would be charged with a violation?
(How were they to conduct their own clearances?) No answer.

Questions were raised about how many persons one with a security badge
could escort. No answer. It is being looked at.

Questions were raised about on field ppties or buildings with ramp
access and non-secure or public access, i.e. two doors on opposite sides
of a building, were to be dealt with, and the answer was the doors must
all be locked and monitored, or screened. The following question arose,
what if a mechanic was in or under a plane servicing it, and someone
undetected walked through, who was liable. The impression was the
County might be liable.

An unfielded question was raised, what if locking doors is in violation
of the national or local fire code that all doors must be unlocked
during business hours

Questions were raised about whether this was wheels or boots on the
tarmac, and which would constitute a violation. NO answer.

Questions were raised why an existing Federal ID, was not adequate, say
a pilots license, perhaps with a security clearance stamp on the
corner. NO answer.

Questions were raised why not a national one time clearance for all
airports, no answer.

Questions were raised about how it would be possible to get all this
done by the deadline, no answer. There were ambivalent responses that
this was only version F or G and that further “refinements” were
likely.

Questions were raised about how this was all to be paid for; the answer
was the County or City that owned the airport. The airport manager made
it clear, especially in these economic times; they simply could not pay
for this.

Questions were raised that since by far the largest part of the airfield
is surrounded by old tired three strand barb wire fence, why require all
the pilots and assorted folks to go through the clearance process, when
anyone could simply walk onto the field. Answer County responsibility
to build new fences. County has been trying to expand what is there,
but there are of course multiple demands for funds.

No one thought to ask what would happen if the hundreds of dairy cattle
immediately north of the field were to break down the fence and an
unauthorized herdsman were to enter the field to keep cattle off the
runway.

Questions were raised about any cost-benefit analysis. No answer.

Questions were raised about any risk-benefit analysis. No answer.

Questions were raised about the likely source (s) of risk. No answer.

Questions were raised about what good can any of this possibly do. No
answer.

Questions were raised about how this Directive was promulgated, and by
whom, no real answer except it was signed off on by the Bush TSA
administrator.

Questions were raided about how to contact someone who knew at least
some of the answers. No answer.

Questions were raised about how this clearance would rate as compared to
the various ranges of FBI clearances, no answer.

Questions were raised about whether any of the four TSA folks had pilot
licenses and current medicals, none were current or active.

It appeared these four were selected to stand in front of the pilot
question firing squad, and they acted appropriately enthused.

One young lady said if as a part of her job she would have to get a
clearance and badge, free at first, then renewing, she could not afford
to work at her wage at the airport.

Several questions were raised about what event caused this directive to
be promulgated; we were told they could not answer.

Questions were raised about what would happen if a transient pilot
landed, needed unknown repairs, or fuel, walked about the ramp without
clearance, trying to find a shop or mechanic, and each turned the pilot
away and would not escort him to wherever, were they liable? No answer.

Questions were raised about what would happen if a pilot landed, say at
night, at an unattended field except maybe the tower, if there even were
one, and needed fuel, and were spotted by a local police or sheriff.
What was either the pilot or sheriff to do? No answer.

The six county representative for the newly appointed Senator Michael
Bennett was in attendance, made a few notes, and urged a group letter or
email, not individual contacts, and assured the crowd the Senator would
not see individual contacts but would be aware of a group letter from
someone on his staff.

Virtually every commercial operator said the plan, to the extent it was
disclosed, was either totally unworkable, or will bankrupt them. One
self service fuel vender said it would immediately break them. Some
noted this was not highly desirable for the vendor, the pilot, or the
national financial recovery.

A comparison was made between this directive and early TFR’s which had
no areas defined, and were not published anywhere, until AOPA began
publishing them, but pilots were advised they would be dealt with
harshly if they violated those unpublished TFR’s since release of the
data was secret and a national security issue..

The TSA lead suggested pilots look at the World Aeronautical Guide to
see what airports had commercial service before landing. Several pilots
said what were they to do if weather, turbulence or lack of in in-flight
Guide, or inability to read it and fly the plane simultaneously, and
in-flight mechanical issues were to cause them to make a precautionary
landing at an unplanned airport for which they had no badge.. No
answers.

It was noted this concept was brought by the Dept of Homeland Security
whose first head on national TV proposed everyone getting visqueen and
duct tape to wrap their houses against chemical attacks, and the TSA who
mandated a certain very ill considered pistol holster for Federal Flight
Deck Officers, which most thoughtful and knowledgeable gun folk thought
was sure to result in accidental discharge, and did, in an Airbus, by a
captain who was nearly brought up on charges til covert circulation of
an actual demonstration of how this gun would have inevitably been
accidentally fired.

A wide variety of questions were posed as to whether the TSA or
Department of Homeland Security had really thought all this through. No
real answer.

I raised the question of if there are some 600,000 licensed pilots, and
untold numbers of passengers, limo drivers and their passengers,
mechanics, vendors, etc why not have the TSA and FAA do a mass clearance
by pilots’ licenses, rather than all these one off clearances
nationwide, which would be far more efficient, with a high volume and
low cost per pilot, paid for by the TSA, not the Counties, or pilots,
and at least get those 600,000 clearances to people statistically
unlikely to be a problem, then move on to all the other groups. NO
answer, except it appeared the TSA said they had no funding. Actually,
who does?
What is the estimated cost? Aren’t new proposals supposed to be
accompanied by reasonably estimated cost?

There were a variety of questions and intramural mumbling about how
effectiveness could be measured, whether a program this dumb could be
continued, and whether the real goal, perhaps by the commercial
carriers, was either to kill off general aviation, or at least get it
totally off the 450 air carrier airports? No answer.

A question, by a recently former US Army helicopter pilot, how long
would it take to get clearances, now, or subsequently, if an
ID/clearance was needed for a new or differing airport, where access was
needed? No answer?

A question was raised about whether local police, sheriffs, fire dept or
their volunteers would need clearance to get on the field. The answer
seemed to be, probably not.

It was clear the airport manager and county commissioner were trying to
be gracious in view of a new surprise regulation, for which they too
were not given any or many answers, but were supposed to somehow make
work, and fund, when they are already unable to fix roads, bridges,
human services etc. They made it abundantly clear, they did not see how
they could fund or staff badging on an ongoing basis, much less the
escort issue.

A former county commissioner who does a great deal of heavy and timely
airfreight shipments, asked how that was to be done with a variety of
vendors or delivery services coming to the field with differing drivers
at all hours that needed access to load planes. No real answer on how
he could continue to ship.

I could go on but I can not recall with any specificity all the issues
raised, I might be able to identify and get you a contact for one person
who worked feverishly to record it all on a laptop. The meeting, opened
by one Montrose County Commissioner, was really rather civil, which that
commissioner and the airport manager both charged the crowd to be. In
view of the near total lack of answers, or real responsiveness, this was
remarkable. It certainly did not inspire confidence in the TSA or
Homeland Security folk.

This was not TSA’s finest hour.

Hope this representative recollection helps. I am sure I overlooked
some things, and could not hear others.

Scott Morse Delta Blake ( AJZ)








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March 6th 09, 03:51 PM
On Mar 6, 3:25*am, "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote:

>
> It seems they are at it again. *We were told AOPA was quite
> unaware of this Special Directive

http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090224badges.html

Interesting that a search looking for a copy of said directive on the
TSA web site using SD1542-08-04-F results in:
+++++++++++
Search Results

Your search - SD1542-08-04-F - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing "SD1542-08-04-F"
+++++++++++

Clicking on the FOIA link at the bottom results in:

++++++++++
Sorry, the page you requested was not found.
++++++++++

Yet on that same page there is a TSA news ticker link to:
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/Feds_May_Tighten_Small_Airport_Security_021009

????????
=======================
Leon - Looking for a copy of the directive to read - McAtee

March 8th 09, 07:05 AM
On Mar 6, 10:51*am, wrote:
> On Mar 6, 3:25*am, "Bruce A. Frank" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > It seems they are at it again. *We were told AOPA was quite
> > unaware of this Special Directive
>
> http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090224badges.html
>
> Interesting that a search looking for a copy of said directive on the
> TSA web site using *SD1542-08-04-F *results in:
> +++++++++++
> Search Results
>
> Your search - SD1542-08-04-F - did not match any documents.
> No pages were found containing "SD1542-08-04-F"
> +++++++++++
>
> Clicking on the FOIA link at the bottom results in:
>
> ++++++++++
> Sorry, the page you requested was not found.
> ++++++++++
>
> Yet on that same page there is a TSA news ticker link to:http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/Feds_May_Tighten_Small_Airport_S...
>
> ????????
> =======================
> Leon - Looking for a copy of the directive to read - McAtee

I have been in and out of airports around the world since 2002. The
only place that I have had to take off my shoes was at Stateside
airports. It seems that the attitude of the TSA is you are a terrorist
and you have to prove to them that you are not. Places like
Singapore,Tokyo and Hong Kong the security is there, you can see it if
you look but it is not intrusive. They treat you like a customer that
they want to please so you will come back. An example of how silly
the TSA can be is that some airline pilots are licensed to carry an
automatic pistol in the cockpit. But, they are limited as to how much
shampoo they can have in their carry on.

Frank M.Hitlaw Hawk owner 2X

Tim Hickey
March 10th 09, 02:51 AM
I am shocked by the situation as represented in the story about the
new TSA regulations.
And I am surprised that there has not been a flurry of messages on
this group decrying the situation.
I hope that the story is not true, and that someone is pulling our
collective leg, but if it is true, then everyone of us needs to take
some action to contact our elected officials, the FAA, the EAA, the
AOPA, the TSA, the President, and anyone else who can address this
problem.
I have forwarded the original post to the AOPA on Sunday night, and I
have not yet received a response.

If the collective we does not responds in mass to this issue, then
recreational flying may be headed for doom.
If you are like most people, and feel that any letter you write to the
government is a waste of time, then now is maybe your last chance to
see if maybe we can make a difference.


Tim Hickey
Zenith CH-300 Driver.

Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)
March 10th 09, 01:06 PM
It looks like it is true. Here's the meeting notice.
http://www.montroseairport.com/images/Public_Notification.pdf

There's a thread over at the AOPA forums, but still, it doesn't have the
explosive anger the subject deserves. There is an independent post there
that confirms the letter that started this thread.
http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=52546

My guess is that there are two factors involved here limiting participation:
First was the recent Washington ADIZ issue where over 20,000 comments
were received. The FAA spat in our faces, just ignored them all and
implemented what they wanted. I'll bet the same thing will happen with
the 4,600 comments on the LASP rule.

Second is that too many pilots figure it won't affect them. That's
wrong, since here withing easy flying distance from central Conn. are
many airports with commercial service: New Haven, Martha's Vineyard,
Nantucket, Albany, White Plains, Hanscom, Worcester, Windsor Locks,
Hyannis, Block Island, Westerly.
It looks like the ol' divide and conquer. It won't be long before GPS
tracking will be required for every vehicle on land, water or air.

AOPA legal services won't be of help if you get caught violating these
unknown rules either, since the so-called infraction didn't happen while
flying and wasn't issued by the FAA.

A new web site is being created www.aviatorsforliberty.com /.org

Paul


Tim Hickey wrote:
> I am shocked by the situation as represented in the story about the
> new TSA regulations.
> And I am surprised that there has not been a flurry of messages on
> this group decrying the situation.
> I hope that the story is not true, and that someone is pulling our
> collective leg, ...

Jim Logajan
March 10th 09, 03:55 PM
"Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)" > wrote:
> My guess is that there are two factors involved here limiting
> participation: First was the recent Washington ADIZ issue where over
> 20,000 comments were received. The FAA spat in our faces, just ignored
> them all and implemented what they wanted. I'll bet the same thing
> will happen with the 4,600 comments on the LASP rule.

Just a minor note: I believe the LASP regs came out of the TSA, not the
FAA, and the TSA was designed to spit in the public's face. All for the
public's own protection, you know.

Stuart Fields
March 10th 09, 05:17 PM
"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)" > wrote:
>> My guess is that there are two factors involved here limiting
>> participation: First was the recent Washington ADIZ issue where over
>> 20,000 comments were received. The FAA spat in our faces, just ignored
>> them all and implemented what they wanted. I'll bet the same thing
>> will happen with the 4,600 comments on the LASP rule.
>
> Just a minor note: I believe the LASP regs came out of the TSA, not the
> FAA, and the TSA was designed to spit in the public's face. All for the
> public's own protection, you know.
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm getting very tired of
having to fight the public figures that are trying to erode my freedoms.
I've recently attended a meeting with the USFS about new restrictions. Last
night a meeting with a water district that may be planning a water system
that will ruin my personal well. I had a battle with the county building
department over a purported flood zone that was pushed by FEMA. Hell I
would love it if we could have any surface water flowing here. It hasn't
occurred in the last 75 years.
NRA wants money to fight, AOPA wants money to fight, Ron Paul wants money to
fight. Taxpayer's Association, etc. etc. I have tunnel carpal syndrome from
sending e-mails protesting the steadily reduction of my freedoms.
Now gun control, this ridiculous TSA idea, Homeland Security etc. etc.
Constantly increasing bureacratic interference that tends to be arrogant and
does not answer to the public. Hell yes they can spit in your face. What
are you going to do about it? You can't even vote them out of office. They
get us one at a time.
All that said, it seems impossible to get the people organized to stand up
and say: "ENOUGH". I don't know just how much it is going to take to get
people of their duffs and stop this "tightening of the noose".

Stu

Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)
March 11th 09, 12:08 AM
Oh, it's starting. The Tea Party protests are starting to catch on.

http://www.newamericanteaparty.com
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/03/10/going-galt-continued/

The trick is going to be keeping up the momentum.

Stuart Fields wrote:
> All that said, it seems impossible to get the people organized to stand up
> and say: "ENOUGH". I don't know just how much it is going to take to get
> people of their duffs and stop this "tightening of the noose".

Dan D[_2_]
March 11th 09, 01:24 AM
"Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)" > wrote in message ...
> Oh, it's starting. The Tea Party protests are starting to catch on.
>
> http://www.newamericanteaparty.com
> http://michellemalkin.com/2009/03/10/going-galt-continued/
>
> The trick is going to be keeping up the momentum.
>
> Stuart Fields wrote:
>> All that said, it seems impossible to get the people organized to stand up
>> and say: "ENOUGH". I don't know just how much it is going to take to get
>> people of their duffs and stop this "tightening of the noose".

More:

Subject: tea party


There's a storm abrewin'. What happens when good, responsible people keep
quiet? Washington has forgotten they work for us... We don't work for them.
Throwing good money after bad is NOT the answer. I am sick of the midnight,
closed door sessions to come up with a plan. I am sick of Congress raking
CEO's over the coals while they, themselves, have defaulted on their taxes.
I am sick of the bailed out companies having lavish vacations and retreats
on my dollar. I am sick of being told it is MY responsibility to rescue
people that, knowingly, bought more house than they could afford. I am sick
of being made to feel it is my patriotic duty to pay MORE taxes. I, like
all of you, am a responsible citizen. I pay my taxes. I live on a budget
and I don't ask someone else to carry the burden for poor decisions I may
make. I have emailed my congressmen and senators asking them to NOT vote
for the stimulus package as it was written without reading it first. No one
listened. They voted for it, pork and all.

O.K. folks, here it is. You may think you are just one voice and what you
think won't make a difference. Well, yes it will and YES, WE CAN!! If you
are disgusted and angry with the way Washington is handling our taxes. If
you are fearful of the fallout from the wreckless spending of BILLIONS to
bailout and "stimulate" without accountability and responsibility then we
need to become ONE, LOUD VOICE THAT CAN BE HEARD FROM EVERY CITY, TOWN,
SUBURB AND HOME IN AMERICA . There is a growing protest to demand that
Congress, the President and his cabinet LISTEN to us, the American Citizens.
What is being done in Washington is NOT the way to handle the economic free
fall.

So, here's the plan. On April 1, 2009, all Ameicans are asked to send a
TEABAG to Washington , D.C. You do not have to enclose a note or any other
information unless you so desire. Just a TEABAG. Many cities are
organizing protests. If you simply search, "New American Tea Party",
several sites will come up. If you aren't the 'protester' type, simply make
your one voice heard with a TEABAG. Your one voice will become a roar when
joined with millions of others that feel the same way. Yes, something needs
to be done but the lack of confidence as shown by the steady decline in the
stock market speaks volumes.

This was not my idea. I visited the sites of the 'New American Tea Party's
and an online survey showed over 90% of thousands said they would send the
teabag on April 1. Why, April 1?? We want them to reach Washington by
April 15. Will you do it? I will.

Send it to; 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Washington , D.C. 20500 .

Forward this to everyone in your address book. Visit the website below for
more information about the 'New American Tea Party'. I would encourage
everyone to go ahead and get the envelope ready to mail, then just drop it
in the mail April 1. Can't guarantee what the postage will be by then, it
is going up as we speak, but have your envelope ready. What will this cost
you? A little time and a 40 something cent stamp.

What could you receive in benefits? Maybe, just maybe, our elected
officials will start to listen to the people. Take out the Pork. Tell us
how the money is being spent. We want TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.
Remember, the money will be spent over the next 4-5 years. It is not too
late..

Of course, if you agree with the way things are being done now, just
delete!!!!!

--
John McCarty

March 11th 09, 03:14 AM
On Mar 10, 7:24*pm, "Dan D" > wrote:


> So, here's the plan. *On April 1, 2009, all Ameicans are asked to send a
> TEABAG to Washington , D.C. *

Make it a USED tea bag. No point in wasting any more money on "them".
==========================
Leon McAtee

March 11th 09, 03:37 PM
On Mar 10, 7:24*pm, "Dan D" > wrote:
> "Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)" > wrote in ...
>
> > Oh, it's starting. The Tea Party protests are starting to catch on.
>
> >http://www.newamericanteaparty.com
> >http://michellemalkin.com/2009/03/10/going-galt-continued/
>
> > The trick is going to be keeping up the momentum.
>
> > Stuart Fields wrote:
> >> All that said, it seems impossible to get the people organized to stand up
> >> and say: *"ENOUGH". *I don't know just how much it is going to take to get
> >> people of their duffs and stop this "tightening of the noose".
>
> More:
>
> Subject: tea party
>
> *There's a storm abrewin'. *What happens when good, responsible people keep
> quiet? * Washington has forgotten they work for us... *We don't work for them.
> Throwing good money after bad is NOT the answer. *I am sick of the midnight,
> closed door sessions to come up with a plan. *I am sick of Congress raking
> CEO's over the coals while they, themselves, have defaulted on their taxes.
> I am sick of the bailed out companies having lavish vacations and retreats
> on my dollar. *I am sick of being told it is MY responsibility to rescue
> people that, knowingly, bought more house than they could afford. *I am sick
> of being made to feel it is my patriotic duty to pay MORE taxes. *I, like
> all of you, am a responsible citizen. *I pay my taxes. *I live on a budget
> and I don't ask someone else to carry the burden for poor decisions I may
> make. *I have emailed my congressmen and senators asking them to NOT vote
> for the stimulus package as it was written without reading it first. *No one
> listened. *They voted for it, pork and all.
>
> O.K. folks, here it is. *You may think you are just one voice and what you
> think won't make a difference. *Well, yes it will and YES, WE CAN!! * If you
> are disgusted and angry with the way Washington is handling our taxes. *If
> you are fearful of the fallout from the wreckless spending of BILLIONS to
> bailout and "stimulate" without accountability and responsibility then we
> need to become ONE, LOUD VOICE THAT CAN BE HEARD FROM EVERY CITY, TOWN,
> SUBURB AND HOME IN AMERICA . * There is a growing protest to demand that
> Congress, the President and his cabinet LISTEN to us, the American Citizens.
> What is being done in Washington is NOT the way to handle the economic free
> fall.
>
> So, here's the plan. *On April 1, 2009, all Ameicans are asked to send a
> TEABAG to Washington , D.C. * You do not have to enclose a note or any other
> information unless you so desire. *Just a TEABAG. * Many cities are
> organizing protests. *If you simply search, "New American Tea Party",
> several sites will come up. *If you aren't the 'protester' type, simply make
> your one voice heard with a TEABAG. *Your one voice will become a roar when
> joined with millions of others that feel the same way. *Yes, something needs
> to be done but the lack of confidence as shown by the steady decline in the
> stock market speaks volumes.
>
> This was not my idea. *I visited the sites of the 'New American Tea Party's
> and an online survey showed over 90% of thousands said they would send the
> teabag on April 1. *Why, April 1?? *We want them to reach Washington by
> April 15. * Will you do it? *I will.
>
> Send it to; * *1600 Pennsylvania Ave. * * *Washington , D.C. 20500 .
>
> Forward this to everyone in your address book. *Visit the website below for
> more information about the 'New American Tea Party'. *I would encourage
> everyone to go ahead and get the envelope ready to mail, then just drop it
> in the mail April 1. *Can't guarantee what the postage will be by then, it
> is going up as we speak, but have your envelope ready. *What will this cost
> you? *A little time and a 40 something cent stamp.
>
> What could you receive in benefits? *Maybe, just maybe, our elected
> officials will start to listen to the people. *Take out the Pork. *Tell us
> how the money is being spent. *We want TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.
> Remember, the money will be spent over the next 4-5 years. *It is not too
> late..
>
> Of course, if you agree with the way things are being done now, just
> delete!!!!!
>
> --
> John McCarty
>

I would add a note:
No taxation with mis-representation.

Stuart Fields
March 11th 09, 03:47 PM
> wrote in message
...
On Mar 10, 7:24 pm, "Dan D" > wrote:
> "Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)" > wrote in
> ...
>
> > Oh, it's starting. The Tea Party protests are starting to catch on.
>
> >http://www.newamericanteaparty.com
> >http://michellemalkin.com/2009/03/10/going-galt-continued/
>
> > The trick is going to be keeping up the momentum.
>
> > Stuart Fields wrote:
> >> All that said, it seems impossible to get the people organized to stand
> >> up
> >> and say: "ENOUGH". I don't know just how much it is going to take to
> >> get
> >> people of their duffs and stop this "tightening of the noose".
>
> More:
>
> Subject: tea party
>
> There's a storm abrewin'. What happens when good, responsible people keep
> quiet? Washington has forgotten they work for us... We don't work for
> them.
> Throwing good money after bad is NOT the answer. I am sick of the
> midnight,
> closed door sessions to come up with a plan. I am sick of Congress raking
> CEO's over the coals while they, themselves, have defaulted on their
> taxes.
> I am sick of the bailed out companies having lavish vacations and retreats
> on my dollar. I am sick of being told it is MY responsibility to rescue
> people that, knowingly, bought more house than they could afford. I am
> sick
> of being made to feel it is my patriotic duty to pay MORE taxes. I, like
> all of you, am a responsible citizen. I pay my taxes. I live on a budget
> and I don't ask someone else to carry the burden for poor decisions I may
> make. I have emailed my congressmen and senators asking them to NOT vote
> for the stimulus package as it was written without reading it first. No
> one
> listened. They voted for it, pork and all.
>
> O.K. folks, here it is. You may think you are just one voice and what you
> think won't make a difference. Well, yes it will and YES, WE CAN!! If you
> are disgusted and angry with the way Washington is handling our taxes. If
> you are fearful of the fallout from the wreckless spending of BILLIONS to
> bailout and "stimulate" without accountability and responsibility then we
> need to become ONE, LOUD VOICE THAT CAN BE HEARD FROM EVERY CITY, TOWN,
> SUBURB AND HOME IN AMERICA . There is a growing protest to demand that
> Congress, the President and his cabinet LISTEN to us, the American
> Citizens.
> What is being done in Washington is NOT the way to handle the economic
> free
> fall.
>
> So, here's the plan. On April 1, 2009, all Ameicans are asked to send a
> TEABAG to Washington , D.C. You do not have to enclose a note or any other
> information unless you so desire. Just a TEABAG. Many cities are
> organizing protests. If you simply search, "New American Tea Party",
> several sites will come up. If you aren't the 'protester' type, simply
> make
> your one voice heard with a TEABAG. Your one voice will become a roar when
> joined with millions of others that feel the same way. Yes, something
> needs
> to be done but the lack of confidence as shown by the steady decline in
> the
> stock market speaks volumes.
>
> This was not my idea. I visited the sites of the 'New American Tea Party's
> and an online survey showed over 90% of thousands said they would send the
> teabag on April 1. Why, April 1?? We want them to reach Washington by
> April 15. Will you do it? I will.
>
> Send it to; 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Washington , D.C. 20500 .
>
> Forward this to everyone in your address book. Visit the website below for
> more information about the 'New American Tea Party'. I would encourage
> everyone to go ahead and get the envelope ready to mail, then just drop it
> in the mail April 1. Can't guarantee what the postage will be by then, it
> is going up as we speak, but have your envelope ready. What will this cost
> you? A little time and a 40 something cent stamp.
>
> What could you receive in benefits? Maybe, just maybe, our elected
> officials will start to listen to the people. Take out the Pork. Tell us
> how the money is being spent. We want TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.
> Remember, the money will be spent over the next 4-5 years. It is not too
> late..
>
> Of course, if you agree with the way things are being done now, just
> delete!!!!!
>
> --
> John McCarty
>

I would add a note:
No taxation with mis-representation.
Some arguments have been put forth that if you don't know what you want you
Tea Bag to say, you are wasting your time. I don't entirely agree with this
but I've put my Tea Bag message in to more concrete suggestions:
Well Ed we have hired some people to do the job of governing. We don't know
all the ins and out of that job any more than we know the details on the
proper running of the police force or the fire department or the Microsoft
Software designers. We do know when we don't like their results.

My Tea Bag will ask for Smaller Government. Sample Get Rid of FEMA. They
waste more money and cause more problems than they solve. I've got numerous
examples of personal experience. Stop the War on Drugs. It isn't working.
Get rid of TSA as this is just generating bureaucrats who generate rules and
regulations and aren't being held accountable to the people. Have the
"Representatives" read the book "Uncle Sam's Plantation". Stop and think
about the normal governmental problem solving technique called "Throw some
Money at it". Either get rid of GAO or get some people in there who know
what they are doing and insist on competency. They audited my group to see
if it was needed and their technique was to measure the volume of our file
cabinets! Clamp down on DoD. I'm watching a project where I know the
principals and they have chosen a more expensive path with a reduced
probability of success because they really don't have any technical
oversight, and it is "Spend it or lose it". This is small spuds dollar
wise, only a few $M, but the principles being followed in this process
permeate a bunch of the DoD projects. BTW I was in a position where I made
presentations to Army Strategic Defense Commander (Star Wars) and indeed
took the Star Wars Chief Scientist for a sail on my boat. I saw appalling
waste and technical incompetence that was allowed to continue. The larger
government is breeding this condition.

Stop the foreign policy where we insist on everybody else adopting our way
of life. Quit trying to be the world's policeman. Stop the outflow of cash
to foreign countries and use it on our roads and bridges. Again have the
foreign policy people read the "Uncle Sam's Plantation". Again it is a
small potato dollar wise, but Project Head Start sent $1M to the Republic of
the Marshall Islands. When we left, that $1M had disappeared and there was
not a single brick sticking up out of the ground.

Any time you get a group of people together to do a job and the group's
continued existence doesn't depend on their competency, you have a high
probability of the group's degenerating into the kinds of things we see in
government. Arrogance, incompetence and a primary goal of increasing the
size for the purpose of acquiring more power.

Bailouts. Let companies who don't perform fail. We need penalties for
lousy performance. Yes there are short term pains to experience, but if we
don't let them fail but bail them out we have created a lousy precedent
which will shape our future. Again read "Uncle Sam's Plantation". If we
keep focusing on the relatively small dollar value of the pork and ignoring
the process that not only supports the pork, but enables larger and more
inefficient spending to occur, then we are headed for more trouble.

Yes I know what I want my Tea Bag to say.

Bruce A. Frank
March 21st 09, 09:52 AM
Mine read "Stop spending my money!"

Stuart Fields wrote:

>
>Yes I know what I want my Tea Bag to say.
>
>
>
>

cavelamb[_2_]
March 21st 09, 10:19 AM
Bruce A. Frank wrote:
> Mine read "Stop spending my money!"
>
> Stuart Fields wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes I know what I want my Tea Bag to say.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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