Manual fuel transfer pumps

[[email protected]]

Looking for suggestions for a aux fuel system transfer pump.
Originally thought of a classic wobble pump but have had tough time
finding and old one or an affordable new one. Have considered 12 volt
but prefer manual.

This RC pump looks promising but a bit slow: http://www.dbproducts.com/store/shtr.htm

I've only got 5-6 gal to move so don't really need anything big I
don't have a lot of room and weight is an issue of course.

[Bob Hoover]

On Mar 10, 3:21*pm, wrote:
> Looking for suggestions for a aux fuel system transfer pump.

> *I've only got 5-6 gal to move so don't really need anything big *I
> don't have a lot of room and weight is an issue of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So go down to your FLAPS and ask to see the BIGGEST manual fuel pump
in stock. For manual operation you'll want to find some lighter
springs. On some, the actuating arm is long enough so that,with the
pump mounted in a suitable position, you can put a threaded ball on
the thing and use it for the handle. Otherwise, you rig a frame to
support the pump then position & pivot a rod or shaft to use as the
pump-handle.

The problem with real fuel pumps is that their output is quite small.
At a steady 60 mph a big V8 is only putting out mebbe 30hp...
something less than 3 gallons per hour. Since an automotive pump is a
variable-output device -- that is, it's output is a function of the
PRESSURE on the outlet -- to get the maximum amount of fuel per stroke
you want to be sure you're delivering pressure into an 'open' tank.

Tricks I've seen or tried: The use of TWO automotive fuel pumps,
rigged so that one pumps on the forward stroke, the other on the aft
stroke. This thing was the closest I've ever FELT to a real wobble-
type TRANSFER pump (as opposed to a primer) in that it required only
finger pressure to deliver about 4 oz per fore-aft 'stroke'.... or
about 35 strokes per gallon.

Slightly better output (about 6oz/stroke) could be achieved using
those RUBBER primer-bulbs used with outboard motors fed by a remote
fuel tank. Rig a pair of them in a fixture of some sort that would
allow them to be mashed flat (or nearly so) by some kind of toggle-
action shoe. Definitely lighter than an automotive f uel pump but
probably more prone to leakage/wear, etc.

Why even consider pumps & primers? Because they come WITH the
required valving.

-R.S.Hoover

[Maxwell[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
> Looking for suggestions for a aux fuel system transfer pump.
> Originally thought of a classic wobble pump but have had tough time
> finding and old one or an affordable new one. Have considered 12 volt
> but prefer manual.
>
> This RC pump looks promising but a bit slow:
> http://www.dbproducts.com/store/shtr.htm
>
> I've only got 5-6 gal to move so don't really need anything big I
> don't have a lot of room and weight is an issue of course.



What is you budget and max weight? They will both be deciding factors.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200129224_200129224

[[email protected]]

On Mar 10, 9:14*pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Looking for suggestions for a aux fuel system transfer pump.
> > Originally thought of a classic wobble pump but have had tough time
> > finding and old one or an affordable new one. *Have considered 12 volt
> > but prefer manual.
>
> > This RC pump looks promising but a bit slow:
> >http://www.dbproducts.com/store/shtr.htm
>
> > I've only got 5-6 gal to move so don't really need anything big *I
> > don't have a lot of room and weight is an issue of course.
>
> What is you budget and max weight? They will both be *deciding factors.
>
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_20...

way lighter, smaller and preferably cheaper than that example.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
On Mar 10, 9:14 pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Looking for suggestions for a aux fuel system transfer pump.
> > Originally thought of a classic wobble pump but have had tough time
> > finding and old one or an affordable new one. Have considered 12 volt
> > but prefer manual.
>
> > This RC pump looks promising but a bit slow:
> >http://www.dbproducts.com/store/shtr.htm
>
> > I've only got 5-6 gal to move so don't really need anything big I
> > don't have a lot of room and weight is an issue of course.
>
> What is you budget and max weight? They will both be deciding factors.
>
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_20...

way lighter, smaller and preferably cheaper than that example.

---------------------------------------------------

Then you need one that pumps way less.

[[email protected]]

On Mar 12, 12:38*am, Bryan Martin
> wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> wrote:
> > On Mar 10, 9:14*pm, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
> > > > wrote in message
>
> > ....
>
> > > > Looking for suggestions for a aux fuel system transfer pump.
> > > > Originally thought of a classic wobble pump but have had tough time
> > > > finding and old one or an affordable new one.> >
> > > What is you budget and max weight? They will both be *deciding factors.
>
> > >http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_20....
>
> > way lighter, smaller and preferably cheaper than that example.
>
> How about this:http://tinyurl.com/b4ocs3
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive.

Bryan
That actually shows promise. Some of these cheap consumer grade pumps
actually pressurize the can with air to drive the gas out the filler
tube. Not suitable for a vented inflight system. Other piston pumps
I've seen are marketed for various fluids and specify that if used
with gasoline must be cleaned after each use, suggesting that they
really aren't tolerant of extended fuel exposure. This pump you've
found might in fact be made of fuel tolerant material since it's
marketed as a fuel specific pump. It's cheap, simple, lightweight...
I'm going to have to get my hands on one and check it out. Thanks for
bringing it to my attention. I was ready to give in and go electric
but this would be great if it checks out.,


Matt
Fly Baby N48ML

[Ron Wanttaja]

wrote:
>
>> How about this:http://tinyurl.com/b4ocs3
>
> That actually shows promise....This pump you've
> found might in fact be made of fuel tolerant material since it's
> marketed as a fuel specific pump. It's cheap, simple, lightweight...
> I'm going to have to get my hands on one and check it out. Thanks for
> bringing it to my attention. I was ready to give in and go electric
> but this would be great if it checks out.,

Go ahead and give it a shot (since it's cheap enough), but it looks like
the one I bought at Cabella's a year or so ago for tanking up my Fly
Baby. Leaked like a sieve. Gave up on it within 15 seconds.

A friend of mine used a marine bilge pump for years to fill his T-18,
AFAIK, he didn't have any problems with it. This looks like what he was
using:

http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=86244F

They've even got an all-aluminum model for about a hundred bucks more:

http://www.thebosworthco.com/product.php?ID=GH-3400-H&Num=&S=1483

The manufacturer claims the pumps do not react to gasoline, but do not
recommend them for transferring fuel.

Ron Wanttaja

[[email protected]]

On Mar 14, 3:10*am, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
> wrote:
>
> >> How about this:http://tinyurl.com/b4ocs3
>
> > That actually shows promise....This pump you've
> > found might in fact be made of fuel tolerant material since it's
> > marketed as a fuel specific pump. It's cheap, simple, lightweight...
> > I'm going to have to get my hands on one and check it out. *Thanks for
> > bringing it to my attention. *I was ready to give in and go electric
> > but this would be great if it checks out.,
>
> Go ahead and give it a shot (since it's cheap enough), but it looks like
> the one I bought at Cabella's a year or so ago for tanking up my Fly
> Baby. *Leaked like a sieve. *Gave up on it within 15 seconds.
>
> A friend of mine used a marine bilge pump for years to fill his T-18,
> AFAIK, he didn't have any problems with it. *This looks like what he was
> using:
>
> http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=86244F
>
> They've even got an all-aluminum model for about a hundred bucks more:
>
> http://www.thebosworthco.com/product.php?ID=GH-3400-H&Num=&S=1483
>
> The manufacturer claims the pumps do not react to gasoline, but do not
> recommend them for transferring fuel.
>
> Ron Wanttaja

Thanks Ron, I've been wondering where all the marine pumps were
hiding!

These still seem a little large. I once saw a tiny little wobble pump
in a mooney mite that was exactly what I need. No luck sourcing those
however...

[Maxwell[_2_]]

> wrote in message
...
On Mar 14, 3:10 am, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
> wrote:
>
> >> How about this:http://tinyurl.com/b4ocs3
>
> > That actually shows promise....This pump you've
> > found might in fact be made of fuel tolerant material since it's
> > marketed as a fuel specific pump. It's cheap, simple, lightweight...
> > I'm going to have to get my hands on one and check it out. Thanks for
> > bringing it to my attention. I was ready to give in and go electric
> > but this would be great if it checks out.,
>
> Go ahead and give it a shot (since it's cheap enough), but it looks like
> the one I bought at Cabella's a year or so ago for tanking up my Fly
> Baby. Leaked like a sieve. Gave up on it within 15 seconds.
>
> A friend of mine used a marine bilge pump for years to fill his T-18,
> AFAIK, he didn't have any problems with it. This looks like what he was
> using:
>
> http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=86244F
>
> They've even got an all-aluminum model for about a hundred bucks more:
>
> http://www.thebosworthco.com/product.php?ID=GH-3400-H&Num=&S=1483
>
> The manufacturer claims the pumps do not react to gasoline, but do not
> recommend them for transferring fuel.
>
> Ron Wanttaja

Thanks Ron, I've been wondering where all the marine pumps were
hiding!

These still seem a little large. I once saw a tiny little wobble pump
in a mooney mite that was exactly what I need. No luck sourcing those
however...

--------------------------------------------------------------

What's the mission? Are you fueling an ultralite?

[[email protected]]

-------------------------------------------------------
>
> What's the mission? Are you fueling an ultralite?


In flight transfer of fuel from aux tank to main header tank in a
Bowers Fly Baby.

[Brian Whatcott]

wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
>> What's the mission? Are you fueling an ultralite?
>
>
> In flight transfer of fuel from aux tank to main header tank in a
> Bowers Fly Baby.

That suggests a minimum transfer rate of a pint a minute would be needed
to keep up with the greatest conceivable flow - but a gallon a minute
would do nicely?

Brian W

[[email protected]]

On Mar 14, 9:56*pm, Brian Whatcott > wrote:
> wrote:
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >> What's the mission? Are you fueling an ultralite?
>
> > In flight transfer of fuel from aux tank to main header tank in a
> > Bowers Fly Baby.
>
> That suggests a minimum transfer rate of a pint a minute would be needed
> to keep up with the greatest conceivable flow - but a gallon a minute
> would do nicely?
>
> Brian W

Header tank is 16 gal. After that has gone down to 10 the aux fuel
can be sent to it. That allows approximately 2 hours to transfer the
6 aux gallons to the main (allowing for half hour reserve). Not that
I want to do it that slowly. Actually, for optimal CG it would be
nice to send the aux up when the main is down to reserve so that would
require a much faster rate.

[Tri-Pacer[_3_]]

>
> > In flight transfer of fuel from aux tank to main header tank in a
> > Bowers Fly Baby.
>
>
Do you have an electrical system? If so how about one of the "clicker" pumps
like the Cherokee uses. They are made in uncertified versions that are quite
cheap. The Ercoupe O-200 engine installation STC uses one of the uncertified
versions to pump from the wing tanks to the header tank.

If you have C-75 or 85 why not fit an engine driven pump?

Cheers:
Paul

N1431A
KSDM

[[email protected]]

On Mar 15, 11:49*am, "Tri-Pacer" > wrote:
> > > In flight transfer of fuel from aux tank to main header tank in a
> > > Bowers Fly Baby.
>
> Do you have an electrical system? If so how about one of the "clicker" pumps
> like the Cherokee uses. They are made in uncertified versions that are quite
> cheap. The Ercoupe O-200 engine installation STC uses one of the uncertified
> versions to pump from the wing tanks to the header tank.
>
> If you have C-75 or 85 why not fit an engine driven pump?
>
> Cheers:
> Paul
>
> N1431A
> KSDM


electrical system is gel cell. Engine is A75

Thinking about this pump. Half a pound and $35
http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/IndexText/FSIGSH883.html?E+Sig

[Brian Whatcott]

wrote:
> On Mar 15, 11:49 am, "Tri-Pacer" > wrote:
>>>> In flight transfer of fuel from aux tank to main header tank in a
>>>> Bowers Fly Baby.
>> Do you have an electrical system? If so how about one of the "clicker" pumps
>> like the Cherokee uses. They are made in uncertified versions that are quite
>> cheap. The Ercoupe O-200 engine installation STC uses one of the uncertified
>> versions to pump from the wing tanks to the header tank.
>>
>> If you have C-75 or 85 why not fit an engine driven pump?
>>
>> Cheers:
>> Paul
>>
>> N1431A
>> KSDM
>
>
> electrical system is gel cell. Engine is A75
>
> Thinking about this pump. Half a pound and $35
> http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/IndexText/FSIGSH883.html?E+Sig

That one looks usable - about a 1/2 gpm

Looking at it reminded me that windshield washerr motor-pumps are
designed to handle alcohol mixes - the bugaboo of fuel pumps. Might also
be worth a test?

Brian W