How to Make 'X-ACTO' Knives

[[email protected]]

To All:

Often times we have the need to create small but accurate shapes in
metal or wood. When the 'part' happens to be in two dimensions
rather than three, such as a stencil (!) or an airfoil template, a
common method of making the part is to simply print it out then glue
the print-out to a piece of shim-stock and simply cut it out. The
usual tool for cutting out such parts is an X-ACTO Knife which comes
to a point (ie, the #11 X-acto Knife blade). But if you find the
cupboard is bare and elect to order the part via telephone, you are in
for a serious shock, which goes something like this:

X-ACTO item# TCL X411, Classic Fine-point Blade, 15ea, X-ACTO#11,
$5.99
Shipping
$6.95

CA Tax $1.06

TOTAL $14.00
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's $0.93 PER BLADE.

Do this instead:

Find yourself some STEEL STRAPPING. Use your snips -- Dutchman or
regular tinner's snips -- to make ONE cut at a shallow angle, then go
about 2-1/2" down the strap and make ANOTHER cut... but at the
OPPOSITE angle. Go over to your BENCH GRINDER, the one fitted with a
pair of FINE stones, and SHARPEN the angles you've just created. Be
careful sharpening the OPPOSITE angle. With both angles ROUGHLY
sharpened, do whatever it is YOU do to FINISH the sharpening... but
only go through HALF of your finish-sharpening procedue. That is, you
want to leave the edges NOT QUITE FINISHED. Now cut the pieces
exactly in the MIDDLE and you've got TWO pieces that look kinda like a
#11 blade.

You might as well make up a dozen or so PAIRS.

If you do any metal work at all you probably have used a 'bomb' to
convert MILD steel into High Carbon steel. The 'bomb' is nothing more
than a NIPPLE of black iron pipe with a pipe CAP on either end. For
little blades like this... or little screws or whatever... your 'bomb'
is probably about three inches long.

Chuck the 'bomb' into your bench vise and pour about an inch of
CHARCOAL into the thing. Now pack the BLADES into the charcoal. Heap
it up. Then pack charcoal into the pipe cap and screw it on. Hand-
tight is fine.

I've found the best charcoal for this is made from old LEATHER. Other
common gunsmithing charcoals are made from BONE and so forth. And
don''t laugh at any of this. What's happening is that the different
charcoals contain TRACE ELEMENTS which makes them more suitable for
springs; for hammer faces, for frizzens, fasteners and so forth.

The TRACE ELEMENTS, along with the CARBON is infused into your MILD
STEEL part when you put the bomb into your forge, bury it in coke or
charcoal, and blow-up a good blaze. Don't rush; take your time. You
want the bomb to reach a BRIGHT YELLOW heat.

Once you've reached the proper temperature, you want to keep it there
for about ten minutes for a small bomb (ie, one made from 1" pipe, 3"
long. Larger (or smaller), work out the required heat by comparing
the VOLUME of the bomb divided by its radius. ( A BIG bomb is
something on the order of three inches in diameter by a foot in length
-- it'll take you a couple of HOURS to properly infuse the part(s). )

Use your tongs to pull the bomb out of the coals, and another set of
tongs to unscrew one end. Do this right on the edge of the forge and
right ABOVE a bucket full of old motor oil. Now tip the contents of
the bomb into the bucket.

The bucket is going to catch fire. Don't worry about it. Put a cover
over the bucket to smother the flames. Stir the contents of the
bucket a few times then wait until the oil is cool enough for you to
fish out the blades.

Collect all of the blades in a shallow pan and cover them with an
eighth of an inch of motor oil. Now set the oil on fire. Allow the
fire to burn out. It's going to be smokey as hell so you want to do
this outside of your shop. When the fire goes out, tip the blades out
of the shallow pan onto a piece of iron and allow them to cool.

Once the blades have cooled you may continue with your sharpening.
They should take a razor edge. If they crack, you've either left them
in the bomb too long or you've cooled them too fast. The tempering
(ie, burning-off) should not effect the cracking one way or another.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's how you make blades (or leaf-springs or what-not). To make a
HANDLE for your blade simply cut a slot in a dowel or a piece of
pruning from a hardwood tree or shrub, and affix the blade in the slot
using EPOXY. Epoxy holds the blade strong enough for most work but
for metal engraving or wood carving, you'll want a more secure joining
between the handle and the tool. You can achieve this drilling a hole
(or holes) into the blade BEFORE the hardening, and affixing the blade
with steel or brass pins.

To add a bit of class to your burrens, gravures, knives and what-not,
you can fit them with copper or brass ferules. (Looks very sexy to
have an ENGRAVED data plate instead of some Joe Sixpak array of
stamped letters & numbers.)

-R.S.Hoover

[Brian Whatcott]

wrote:
> To All:
>
> Often times we have the need to create small but accurate shapes in
> metal or wood. When the 'part' happens to be in two dimensions
> rather than three, such as a stencil (!) or an airfoil template, a
> common method of making the part is to simply print it out then glue
> the print-out to a piece of shim-stock and simply cut it out. The
> usual tool for cutting out such parts is an X-ACTO Knife which comes
> to a point (ie, the #11 X-acto Knife blade). But if you find the
> cupboard is bare and elect to order the part via telephone, you are in
> for a serious shock, which goes something like this:
>
> X-ACTO item# TCL X411, Classic Fine-point Blade, 15ea, X-ACTO#11,
> $5.99
> Shipping
> $6.95
>
> CA Tax $1.06
>
> TOTAL $14.00
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's $0.93 PER BLADE.
>
> Do this instead:
>
> Find yourself some STEEL STRAPPING. Use your snips -- Dutchman or
> regular tinner's snips -- to make ONE cut at a shallow angle, then go
> about 2-1/2" down the strap and make ANOTHER cut... but at the
> OPPOSITE angle. Go over to your BENCH GRINDER, the one fitted with a
> pair of FINE stones, and SHARPEN the angles you've just created. Be
> careful sharpening the OPPOSITE angle. With both angles ROUGHLY
> sharpened, do whatever it is YOU do to FINISH the sharpening... but
> only go through HALF of your finish-sharpening procedue. That is, you
> want to leave the edges NOT QUITE FINISHED. Now cut the pieces
> exactly in the MIDDLE and you've got TWO pieces that look kinda like a
> #11 blade.
>
> You might as well make up a dozen or so PAIRS.
>
> If you do any metal work at all you probably have used a 'bomb' to
> convert MILD steel into High Carbon steel. The 'bomb' is nothing more
> than a NIPPLE of black iron pipe with a pipe CAP on either end. For
> little blades like this... or little screws or whatever... your 'bomb'
> is probably about three inches long.
>
> Chuck the 'bomb' into your bench vise and pour about an inch of
> CHARCOAL into the thing. Now pack the BLADES into the charcoal. Heap
> it up. Then pack charcoal into the pipe cap and screw it on. Hand-
> tight is fine.
>
> I've found the best charcoal for this is made from old LEATHER. Other
> common gunsmithing charcoals are made from BONE and so forth. And
> don''t laugh at any of this. What's happening is that the different
> charcoals contain TRACE ELEMENTS which makes them more suitable for
> springs; for hammer faces, for frizzens, fasteners and so forth.
>
> The TRACE ELEMENTS, along with the CARBON is infused into your MILD
> STEEL part when you put the bomb into your forge, bury it in coke or
> charcoal, and blow-up a good blaze. Don't rush; take your time. You
> want the bomb to reach a BRIGHT YELLOW heat.
>
> Once you've reached the proper temperature, you want to keep it there
> for about ten minutes for a small bomb (ie, one made from 1" pipe, 3"
> long. Larger (or smaller), work out the required heat by comparing
> the VOLUME of the bomb divided by its radius. ( A BIG bomb is
> something on the order of three inches in diameter by a foot in length
> -- it'll take you a couple of HOURS to properly infuse the part(s). )
>
> Use your tongs to pull the bomb out of the coals, and another set of
> tongs to unscrew one end. Do this right on the edge of the forge and
> right ABOVE a bucket full of old motor oil. Now tip the contents of
> the bomb into the bucket.
>
> The bucket is going to catch fire. Don't worry about it. Put a cover
> over the bucket to smother the flames. Stir the contents of the
> bucket a few times then wait until the oil is cool enough for you to
> fish out the blades.
>
> Collect all of the blades in a shallow pan and cover them with an
> eighth of an inch of motor oil. Now set the oil on fire. Allow the
> fire to burn out. It's going to be smokey as hell so you want to do
> this outside of your shop. When the fire goes out, tip the blades out
> of the shallow pan onto a piece of iron and allow them to cool.
>
> Once the blades have cooled you may continue with your sharpening.
> They should take a razor edge. If they crack, you've either left them
> in the bomb too long or you've cooled them too fast. The tempering
> (ie, burning-off) should not effect the cracking one way or another.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's how you make blades (or leaf-springs or what-not). To make a
> HANDLE for your blade simply cut a slot in a dowel or a piece of
> pruning from a hardwood tree or shrub, and affix the blade in the slot
> using EPOXY. Epoxy holds the blade strong enough for most work but
> for metal engraving or wood carving, you'll want a more secure joining
> between the handle and the tool. You can achieve this drilling a hole
> (or holes) into the blade BEFORE the hardening, and affixing the blade
> with steel or brass pins.
>
> To add a bit of class to your burrens, gravures, knives and what-not,
> you can fit them with copper or brass ferules. (Looks very sexy to
> have an ENGRAVED data plate instead of some Joe Sixpak array of
> stamped letters & numbers.)
>
> -R.S.Hoover

I felt good - just reading that old recipe. Thank you

Brian W

[Bob Hoover]

On Mar 15, 8:41*pm, Brian Whatcott > wrote:

> I felt good - just reading that old recipe. Thank you
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Brian,

I don't know how true it is ( ie, the infusion of trace elements in
leather charcoal ) but I've heard it from more than one machinist
whose advice I feel I can trust. The only quantified test I know of
[done with a 'gas chromatograph'??] showed that different leathers did
in fact show different amounts of things such as chromium and
vanadium. Ditto for bone charcoal.

A modern-day metallurgist would probably laugh me out of the shop but
I've got a couple of burins (ie, engraving tools for gun work) that
I made in the mid-60's which still produce a neat curl of metal from
most rifle receivers.

As for the steel strapping, back in the 1960's when I was doing a lot
of black-smithing I hammer-welded about twenty feet of half-inch strap
into twelve inch bar then drew out to a thirty-inch sword blade. That
was taking the Japanese method sorta backwards but I swear that sword
had no trouble cutting mild steel.

-R.S.Hoover

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

schreef:
> Often times we have the need to create small but accurate shapes in
> metal or wood. When the 'part' ...
> (follows a minute description of how to make cutting tools)

Jeez Bob that comes pretty cvlose to black art to my officeman's eyes.
Be careful or next you'll be giving away the recipe of the ointment
that allowed Shakespeare's witches to fly off the stage on their brooms!

[flash]

> wrote in message
...
> To All:
>
> Often times we have the need to create small but accurate shapes in
> metal or wood.

{{SNIP}}

>
> Collect all of the blades in a shallow pan and cover them with an
> eighth of an inch of motor oil. Now set the oil on fire. Allow the
> fire to burn out. It's going to be smokey as hell so you want to do
> this outside of your shop. When the fire goes out, tip the blades out
> of the shallow pan onto a piece of iron and allow them to cool.
>
> Once the blades have cooled you may continue with your sharpening.
> They should take a razor edge. If they crack, you've either left them
> in the bomb too long or you've cooled them too fast. The tempering
> (ie, burning-off) should not effect the cracking one way or another.
>
>


Robert,
You are simply amazing. Your directions fit right there with what all my
father attempted to teach so many years ago. (The forge is long gone).

But the tempering process . . . is there a method less smoky and noxious?
For the faint of heart who live in an area where the neighbors are less
tolerant of flames and smoke?

Thanks

Flash
(Yeah, my neighbors only put up with a certain amount of disturbance, and
the Mayor is not exactly a personal friend)

[Jim Logajan]

" > wrote:
> That's $0.93 PER BLADE.
>
> Do this instead:

While your post was otherwise informative and provides a fine educational
hands-on exercise, the alleged economic justification is, to put it
diplomatically, misleading (in other words I don't think you should have
bothered with that particular rationale because it just doesn't fly - even
costing the labor at minimum wage and assuming free material and zero
amortized tool costs, it would have been cheaper to buy the blades.)

Just saying....

[Anthony W]

Jim Logajan wrote:

> While your post was otherwise informative and provides a fine educational
> hands-on exercise, the alleged economic justification is, to put it
> diplomatically, misleading (in other words I don't think you should have
> bothered with that particular rationale because it just doesn't fly - even
> costing the labor at minimum wage and assuming free material and zero
> amortized tool costs, it would have been cheaper to buy the blades.)
>
> Just saying....

Perhaps but I think it would be fun to do just once to prove I could.
I'd probably use old hacksaw blades to make my own 'X-ACTO' type knives.
They already are made of the right steel and they're easy to anneal and
harden.

Tony

[Dan[_12_]]

Flash wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> To All:
>>
>> Often times we have the need to create small but accurate shapes in
>> metal or wood.
>
> {{SNIP}}
>
>> Collect all of the blades in a shallow pan and cover them with an
>> eighth of an inch of motor oil. Now set the oil on fire. Allow the
>> fire to burn out. It's going to be smokey as hell so you want to do
>> this outside of your shop. When the fire goes out, tip the blades out
>> of the shallow pan onto a piece of iron and allow them to cool.
>>
>> Once the blades have cooled you may continue with your sharpening.
>> They should take a razor edge. If they crack, you've either left them
>> in the bomb too long or you've cooled them too fast. The tempering
>> (ie, burning-off) should not effect the cracking one way or another.
>>
>>
>
>
> Robert,
> You are simply amazing. Your directions fit right there with what all my
> father attempted to teach so many years ago. (The forge is long gone).
>
> But the tempering process . . . is there a method less smoky and noxious?
> For the faint of heart who live in an area where the neighbors are less
> tolerant of flames and smoke?
>
> Thanks
>
> Flash
> (Yeah, my neighbors only put up with a certain amount of disturbance, and
> the Mayor is not exactly a personal friend)
>
>

Certainly, try a table top furnace and KaseNit.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Brian Whatcott]

Bob Hoover wrote:
> On Mar 15, 8:41 pm, Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>
>> I felt good - just reading that old recipe. Thank you
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dear Brian,
>
> I don't know how true it is ( ie, the infusion of trace elements in
> leather charcoal ) but I've heard it from more than one machinist
> whose advice I feel I can trust. The only quantified test I know of
> [done with a 'gas chromatograph'??] showed that different leathers did
> in fact show different amounts of things such as chromium and
> vanadium. Ditto for bone charcoal.

Gunmakers loved this method of "color case-hardening" their actions.
The charcoal adds the surface layer carbide particles to provide that
thin hard surface layer no doubt - but they prized above all the colors
that could be got. You didn't mention the horse droppings ingredient
though :-)
.....
> As for the steel strapping, back in the 1960's when I was doing a lot
> of black-smithing I hammer-welded about twenty feet of half-inch strap
> into twelve inch bar then drew out to a thirty-inch sword blade. That
> was taking the Japanese method sorta backwards but I swear that sword
> had no trouble cutting mild steel.
>
> -R.S.Hoover

The other Damascus approach I have heard about used the scrap metal
-working bandsaw blades alternated with mild steel strap.
The combination of toughness from the mild steel and hardenability
from the alloy blade looked good (when acid-etched) , and worked well
apparently.
Brian W

[Bob Hoover]

> The other Damascus approach I have heard about used the scrap metal
> -working bandsaw blades alternated with mild steel strap.
> * *The combination of toughness from the mild steel *and hardenability
> from the alloy blade looked good (when acid-etched) , and worked well
> apparently.--------------------------------------------------------------------

The method I saw used in Japan, at a guy's shop near Kuriyama, was to
brush the billet on both sides as they workd it out from a billet of
about 4 x 1 in. to a piece about 8" x 3/4" was to BRUSH the faces of
the billet with a wad of rice straw dipped in what appeared to be
water. After each brushing it was re-heated back to bright yellow
then folded inward, onto the face that had been brushed last. After
folding it was worked back to its original size (ie, about 4 x 1
inch). This wouldn't make a full size sword of course, and the fellow
may have done it just to demonstrate the technique. He was a
westerner but a registered sword maker who had several Japanese
apprentices. He used traditional tools and clearly knew what he was
doing.

I assume the straw -- or the liquid -- provided the required carbon.
The billet was folded eight times (ie, two to the eighth, or 256 layers
[?]). The result was a single-edged blade, about 1//8th inch on the
back and a bit thinner than a knife on the cutting edge. In forming
the cutting edge the natural camber resullted in a slight curve. Very
stiff.

Off & on, I spent a total of seven years in Japan, not always
stationed ashore, but I pulled two fairly long hitches, both at HSA
Yokosuka. There were quite a few traditional metal smiths on the
Kuriyama peninsula, including a shipyard (!) that could handle hulls
up to about 120 feet (they launched them sideways); mostly fishing
boats. It was a very interesting time for me.

-R.S.Hoover
-(USN, Retired)

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "vd" == veeduber > writes:

vd> Do this instead:

vd> you put the bomb into your forge, bury it
vd> in coke or charcoal, and blow-up a good blaze. Don't rush;
vd> take your time. You want the bomb to reach a BRIGHT YELLOW
vd> heat....

vd> Use your tongs to pull the bomb out of the coals, and another
vd> set of tongs to unscrew one end. Do this right on the edge of
vd> the forge and right ABOVE a bucket full of old motor oil. Now
vd> tip the contents of the bomb into the bucket.

vd> The bucket is going to catch fire. Don't worry about it....

vd> Collect all of the blades in a shallow pan and cover them with
vd> an eighth of an inch of motor oil. Now set the oil on fire.
vd> Allow the fire to burn out. It's going to be smokey as hell
vd> so you want to do this outside of your shop. When the fire
vd> goes out, tip the blades out of the shallow pan onto a piece
vd> of iron and allow them to cool.

I'll give this a go in my 2-car suburban attached garage...a good test
of the local fire dept, get the lads out of the station house playing
jokes on each other.

Really tho, great fun reading about the old-timey ways. Guess I'll
continue to pay the $10 at my local Ace HW & Aviation Supply...

--
Nothing overshadows truth so much as authority.
~ Leon Battista Alberti

[RST Engineering]

Ever run across a CPO Hal Mitchell at either San Diego or Yokosuka? His
forte was cryptology and was my father in law. Retired to Paradise Hills
(National CIty) and passed away about fifteen years ago.

Jim


Off & on, I spent a total of seven years in Japan, not always
stationed ashore, but I pulled two fairly long hitches, both at HSA
Yokosuka.

[pintlar]

I take it you screw the second cap on 'very loosely' to prevent an explosion
in the forge.
**********************************************
> wrote in message
...
> To All:
>
> Often times we have the need to create small but accurate shapes in
> metal or wood. When the 'part' happens to be in two dimensions
> rather than three, such as a stencil (!) or an airfoil template, a
> common method of making the part is to simply print it out then glue
> the print-out to a piece of shim-stock and simply cut it out. The
> usual tool for cutting out such parts is an X-ACTO Knife which comes
> to a point (ie, the #11 X-acto Knife blade). But if you find the
> cupboard is bare and elect to order the part via telephone, you are in
> for a serious shock, which goes something like this:
>
> X-ACTO item# TCL X411, Classic Fine-point Blade, 15ea, X-ACTO#11,
> $5.99
> Shipping
> $6.95
>
> CA Tax $1.06
>
> TOTAL $14.00
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's $0.93 PER BLADE.
>
> Do this instead:
>
> Find yourself some STEEL STRAPPING. Use your snips -- Dutchman or
> regular tinner's snips -- to make ONE cut at a shallow angle, then go
> about 2-1/2" down the strap and make ANOTHER cut... but at the
> OPPOSITE angle. Go over to your BENCH GRINDER, the one fitted with a
> pair of FINE stones, and SHARPEN the angles you've just created. Be
> careful sharpening the OPPOSITE angle. With both angles ROUGHLY
> sharpened, do whatever it is YOU do to FINISH the sharpening... but
> only go through HALF of your finish-sharpening procedue. That is, you
> want to leave the edges NOT QUITE FINISHED. Now cut the pieces
> exactly in the MIDDLE and you've got TWO pieces that look kinda like a
> #11 blade.
>
> You might as well make up a dozen or so PAIRS.
>
> If you do any metal work at all you probably have used a 'bomb' to
> convert MILD steel into High Carbon steel. The 'bomb' is nothing more
> than a NIPPLE of black iron pipe with a pipe CAP on either end. For
> little blades like this... or little screws or whatever... your 'bomb'
> is probably about three inches long.
>
> Chuck the 'bomb' into your bench vise and pour about an inch of
> CHARCOAL into the thing. Now pack the BLADES into the charcoal. Heap
> it up. Then pack charcoal into the pipe cap and screw it on. Hand-
> tight is fine.
>
> I've found the best charcoal for this is made from old LEATHER. Other
> common gunsmithing charcoals are made from BONE and so forth. And
> don''t laugh at any of this. What's happening is that the different
> charcoals contain TRACE ELEMENTS which makes them more suitable for
> springs; for hammer faces, for frizzens, fasteners and so forth.
>
> The TRACE ELEMENTS, along with the CARBON is infused into your MILD
> STEEL part when you put the bomb into your forge, bury it in coke or
> charcoal, and blow-up a good blaze. Don't rush; take your time. You
> want the bomb to reach a BRIGHT YELLOW heat.
>
> Once you've reached the proper temperature, you want to keep it there
> for about ten minutes for a small bomb (ie, one made from 1" pipe, 3"
> long. Larger (or smaller), work out the required heat by comparing
> the VOLUME of the bomb divided by its radius. ( A BIG bomb is
> something on the order of three inches in diameter by a foot in length
> -- it'll take you a couple of HOURS to properly infuse the part(s). )
>
> Use your tongs to pull the bomb out of the coals, and another set of
> tongs to unscrew one end. Do this right on the edge of the forge and
> right ABOVE a bucket full of old motor oil. Now tip the contents of
> the bomb into the bucket.
>
> The bucket is going to catch fire. Don't worry about it. Put a cover
> over the bucket to smother the flames. Stir the contents of the
> bucket a few times then wait until the oil is cool enough for you to
> fish out the blades.
>
> Collect all of the blades in a shallow pan and cover them with an
> eighth of an inch of motor oil. Now set the oil on fire. Allow the
> fire to burn out. It's going to be smokey as hell so you want to do
> this outside of your shop. When the fire goes out, tip the blades out
> of the shallow pan onto a piece of iron and allow them to cool.
>
> Once the blades have cooled you may continue with your sharpening.
> They should take a razor edge. If they crack, you've either left them
> in the bomb too long or you've cooled them too fast. The tempering
> (ie, burning-off) should not effect the cracking one way or another.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's how you make blades (or leaf-springs or what-not). To make a
> HANDLE for your blade simply cut a slot in a dowel or a piece of
> pruning from a hardwood tree or shrub, and affix the blade in the slot
> using EPOXY. Epoxy holds the blade strong enough for most work but
> for metal engraving or wood carving, you'll want a more secure joining
> between the handle and the tool. You can achieve this drilling a hole
> (or holes) into the blade BEFORE the hardening, and affixing the blade
> with steel or brass pins.
>
> To add a bit of class to your burrens, gravures, knives and what-not,
> you can fit them with copper or brass ferules. (Looks very sexy to
> have an ENGRAVED data plate instead of some Joe Sixpak array of
> stamped letters & numbers.)
>
> -R.S.Hoover

[Bob Murray]

"pintlar" > wrote in message
...
>I take it you screw the second cap on 'very loosely' to prevent an
>explosion in the forge.
>
Nope! You don't want any oxygen to get in. The amount of carbon you put in
is much more than needed for both hardening and combining with any residual
oxygen in the pipe. I use a similar method for annealing. Making small
tools from allen wrenches or concrete nails, I put them in the pipe with 3
to 6 sq. inches of brown paper to get rid of residual oxygen, and put the
pipe in the fire as Bob does. After the pipe gets to temperature, let the
fire die out. When all is cool, nice non-scaled annealed steel.

Bob

[pintlar]

<snip>
> Nope! You don't want any oxygen to get in. The amount of carbon you put
> in is much more than needed for both hardening and combining with any
> residual oxygen in the pipe. I use a similar method for annealing. Making
> small tools from allen wrenches or concrete nails, I put them in the pipe
> with 3 to 6 sq. inches of brown paper to get rid of residual oxygen, and
> put the pipe in the fire as Bob does. After the pipe gets to temperature,
> let the fire die out. When all is cool, nice non-scaled annealed steel.
>
> Bob
*****************
Years ago ('50's) in one of the old Popular Science type mags there was
a 'readers speak'
article where a man made his own threading dies by using a hex nut with bolt
stopped flush with one
face of the nut. He then drilled his three holes, (half in the nut, half in
the bolt) removed the bolt, and now he had a 'soft' die.
He then heated that nut/die cherry red with his o/a torch and sprinkled
powdered sugar on the inside of the red hot bolt.
He said that hardened the threads of the bolt (now a die) sufficiently.

[Bob Hoover]

On Mar 16, 1:24*pm, "Flash" > wrote:

> You are simply amazing. *Your directions fit right there with what all my
> father attempted to teach so many years ago. *(The forge is long gone).
>
> But the tempering process . . . is there a method less smoky and noxious?
> For the faint of heart who live in an area where the neighbors are less
> tolerant of *flames and smoke?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Flash,

I'm sure there is. I've seen small gas-fired tempering furnaces in
several shops I've visited. A copy of Brownell's catalog (...do they
have a web site? ) should give you sources.

-Bob

[Bob Hoover]

On Mar 17, 8:15*pm, "pintlar" > wrote:
> I take it you screw the second cap on 'very loosely' to prevent an explosion
> in the forge.
----------------------------------------------------------------

SOP was to drill a hole in the end-caps. For the box-type, the thing
fit loosely enough that a vent wasn't required.

-Bob

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

Bob Hoover schreef:

> SOP was ....

SOP?

Shellack omnivisually painted?
Silly operators propagated?
Sundeck Only for Proprietors?
Standard operational practice?
Stupid options prerequisited?
Subject Over Pressure?
Standard operational procedures?
....???

Excuse my stupidity,
KA

[Dan[_12_]]

Bob Hoover wrote:
> On Mar 16, 1:24 pm, "Flash" > wrote:
>
>> You are simply amazing. Your directions fit right there with what all my
>> father attempted to teach so many years ago. (The forge is long gone).
>>
>> But the tempering process . . . is there a method less smoky and noxious?
>> For the faint of heart who live in an area where the neighbors are less
>> tolerant of flames and smoke?
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dear Flash,
>
> I'm sure there is. I've seen small gas-fired tempering furnaces in
> several shops I've visited. A copy of Brownell's catalog (...do they
> have a web site? ) should give you sources.
>
> -Bob


You bet Brownells has a website: www.brownells.com

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dan[_12_]]

jan olieslagers wrote:
> Bob Hoover schreef:
>
>> SOP was ....
>
> SOP?
>
> Shellack omnivisually painted?
> Silly operators propagated?
> Sundeck Only for Proprietors?
> Standard operational practice?
> Stupid options prerequisited?
> Subject Over Pressure?
> Standard operational procedures?
> ...???
>
> Excuse my stupidity,
> KA

Standard operating procedure.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Bob Hoover]

On Mar 18, 6:43*am, "pintlar" > wrote:

> * * *Years ago ('50's) in one of the old Popular Science type mags there was
> a 'readers speak'
> article where a man made his own threading dies
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone who has had to make a die... or even chores as common-place
as making a leaf-spring ...knows we stand on the shoulders of those
who have gone before us.

When faced with such a chore I'll reach for a catalog ninety-nine
times out of a hundred. But it is how well we are able to accomplish
that hundredth chore -- something as simple as making a leaf-spring
for an old rifle, pistol or shot-gun -- that defines our abilities
as a machinist, gun-smith or what-have-you.

Nowadays, what with oil- and water-hardening steel available in an
almost infinite variety of thicknesses, widths and lengths, making
such a spring ENTIRELY from scratch is similar to being able to
fabricate shoes for a Shetland pony. Or even more tricky, for an ox
(!!).

Since being diagnosed as having cancer I know a lot of these skills
will die with me. That makes me almost as unhappy as the thought of
death itself.

-Bob

[kfvorwerk]

On Mar 16, 10:24*am, "Flash" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > To All:
>
> > Often times we have the need to create small but accurate shapes in
> > metal or wood.
>
> {{SNIP}}
>
>
>
> > Collect all of the blades in a shallow pan and cover them with an
> > eighth of an inch of motor oil. *Now set the oil on fire. *Allow the
> > fire to burn out. *It's going to be smokey as hell so you want to do
> > this outside of your shop. *When the fire goes out, tip the blades out
> > of the shallow pan onto a piece of iron and allow them to cool.
>
> > Once the blades have cooled you may continue with your sharpening.
> > They should take a razor edge. *If they crack, you've either left them
> > in the bomb too long or you've cooled them too fast. *The tempering
> > (ie, burning-off) should not effect the cracking one way or another.
>
> Robert,
> You are simply amazing. *Your directions fit right there with what all my
> father attempted to teach so many years ago. *(The forge is long gone).
>
> But the tempering process . . . is there a method less smoky and noxious?
> For the faint of heart who live in an area where the neighbors are less
> tolerant of *flames and smoke?
>
> Thanks
>
> Flash
> (Yeah, my neighbors only put up with *a certain amount of disturbance, and
> the Mayor is not exactly a personal friend)

Quench in used cooking oil, smokes but less fire, and anneal in a
toaster oven to around 460F.
http://www.caribooblades.com/makingahook.html
Karl

[Bob Hoover]

On Mar 20, 2:07*am, kfvorwerk > wrote:
> Quench in used cooking oil, smokes but less fire, and anneal in a
> toaster oven to around 460F.http://www.caribooblades.com/makingahook.html
> Karl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Karl (and the Group),

Thank you VERY MUCH for pointing us toward some EXCELLENT information.

A constant problem with the Internet is that it is impossible to sort
the wheat from the chaff. Almost everyone has an opinion they are
eager to share but much of the time that information is flawed; often
not even tested by the person offering it up; something have only
HEARD about and which may be repeated incorrectly.

Go look at the site Karl mentions. This fellow knows his onions.

-R.S.Hoover

[Dan D[_2_]]

"Bob Hoover" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 18, 6:43 am, "pintlar" > wrote:

> Years ago ('50's) in one of the old Popular Science type mags there was
> a 'readers speak'
> article where a man made his own threading dies
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone who has had to make a die... or even chores as common-place
as making a leaf-spring ...knows we stand on the shoulders of those
who have gone before us.

When faced with such a chore I'll reach for a catalog ninety-nine
times out of a hundred. But it is how well we are able to accomplish
that hundredth chore -- something as simple as making a leaf-spring
for an old rifle, pistol or shot-gun -- that defines our abilities
as a machinist, gun-smith or what-have-you.

Nowadays, what with oil- and water-hardening steel available in an
almost infinite variety of thicknesses, widths and lengths, making
such a spring ENTIRELY from scratch is similar to being able to
fabricate shoes for a Shetland pony. Or even more tricky, for an ox
(!!).

Since being diagnosed as having cancer I know a lot of these skills
will die with me. That makes me almost as unhappy as the thought of
death itself.

-Bob
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob,

You are going to live forever, if the internet has anything to say about it. THANK YOU for all the insights. It is up to
us to practice and learn...

Dan D.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Dan D" > wrote


> Bob,
>
> You are going to live forever, if the internet has anything to say about it.
> THANK YOU for all the insights. It is up to us to practice and learn...
>
> Dan D.

I second that.

Your online hints and such have gone into a folder marked "good stuff-how to's"
and I back it up, so I don't lose it in a crash.

You have made me think of many new possibilities. Shoot, I'm even sharing
things (like the carbon blade thread) with co-workers that is currently making
knives with his ag students. He is using old circular saw blades for the stock.
--
Jim in NC

[kfvorwerk]

On Mar 20, 3:12*am, Bob Hoover > wrote:
> On Mar 20, 2:07*am, kfvorwerk > wrote:
>
> > Quench in used cooking oil, smokes but less fire, and anneal in a
> > toaster oven to around 460F.http://www.caribooblades.com/makingahook.html
> > Karl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dear Karl (and the Group),
>
> Thank you VERY MUCH for pointing us toward some EXCELLENT information.
>
> A constant problem with the Internet is that it is impossible to sort
> the wheat from the chaff. *Almost everyone *has an opinion they are
> eager to share but much of the time that information is flawed; often
> not even tested by the person offering it up; something have only
> HEARD about and which may be repeated incorrectly.
>
> Go look at the site Karl mentions. *This fellow knows his onions.
>
> -R.S.Hoover

If you're interested in metalworking I recommend rec.*crafts.*
metalworking
There is a bit of politics and off topic stuff but the people know
what they're talking about as far as the metalworking part.
You're welcome.
Karl