Least Expensive Flying

[[email protected]]

Mention 'The Man From Illinois' and most people will say 'Abe
Lincoln.' And I mean, most people EVERYWHERE. But for me the 'man
from Illinois' will always be the fellow who asked my opinion
regarding the least expensive way for him to fly. To give him an
honest answer I needed to know a bit more about him and for a time we
exchanged messages on an almost daily basis.

He wasn't a tool user in that earning his daily bread did not depend
upon driving a truck, building a house nor using one machine to make
another, as would be the case of a machinist (at the component level)
nor assembling parts made by others, such as someone on an assembly
line or building bulldozers or what-have-you. Indeed, during our
exchange the fellow finally admitted with a laugh that while he
FACILITATED the building of things, in that he was involved with
finding the MONEY on which everything in our society depended and
which I saw as a necessary job, he himself could not claim to have
built ANYTHING in the physical sense, unless we returned to his days
as a school-boy during which he and his fellows had assembled an 8"
reflecting telescope. Sports-wise he played golf and tennis. When he
mentioned 'crew' I asked if he meant rowing or sailing and in doing so
probably revealed my short-comings as a councilor, for there followed
a lengthy gap in our messages. We eventually settled on rowing AND
sailing, both done while in college but the latter still engaged in
although not as a major activity. I believe he said his age was 54
and I recall listing his abilities as sailing a boat, driving a car
and piloting an airplane but if he had a leaky faucet he would call a
plumber.

As for his financial status he said -- more than once -- 'There's
simply no money.' Which wasn't quite true. There was 'no money'
relative to 'money' as defined by his working experience. Could he
afford a 1/4" drill motor from Harbor Freight? (At that time listed
for about $14.00.) That got a rather confused reply involving someone
building an RV-4, the 'builder's kit' which proved hilariously
inadequate, failing to mention the REQUIRED air compressor, hoses,
regulators and so forth. And of COURSE he could afford a drill-motor
costing less than twenty dollars, although he was fairly sure *I* may
have been mislead with the cost of building an aluminum airplane.

Then (and now) Aluminum sheet stock various sources was going
for ...about two bucks a pound. (That's a very wishy-washy 'two
bucks' but the early worm and all that... I've picked up .016 in 5' x
25' sheets for eighty-six cents per pound. It was a local new/surplus
item the bulk of which eventually went to a Boeing sub-contractor.
But half a dozen sheets managed to fly into my shop before the truck
headed north.)

The man from Illinois was excited to learn there was a new/surplus
market for aviation-grade materials. I don't know what he did about
it but I never heard another word about the cost of materials. But
there were plenty of other things to cause him to hint, always
politely, that I may have been out of the field a bit too long; that
he was convinced only a HIGHLY SKILLED metal-smith could duplicate
Cal's efforts.

Rather than argue the point I steered him to the CX4 Group. That was
about two years ago. I haven't heard from him since.

The point here is that the only barriers capable of PREVENTING you
from building a safe, reliable airplane are: 1. Yourself. 2. Your
language and 3. Your location.

Did he? Didn't he? I don't know.

-Bob

[ທ້າວໃຂ່ມືດ]

On Mar 27, 12:43*pm, " > wrote:
> Mention 'The Man From Illinois' and most people will say 'Abe
> Lincoln.' *And I mean, most people EVERYWHERE. *But for me the 'man
> from Illinois' will always be the fellow who asked my opinion
> regarding the least expensive way for him to fly. *To give him an
> honest answer I needed to know a bit more about him and for a time we
> exchanged messages on an almost daily basis.
>
> He wasn't a tool user in that earning his daily bread did not depend
> upon driving a truck, *building a house nor using one machine to make
> another, as would be the case of a machinist (at the component level)
> nor assembling parts made by others, such as someone on an assembly
> line or building bulldozers or what-have-you. *Indeed, during our
> exchange the fellow finally admitted with a laugh that while he
> FACILITATED the building of things, in that he was involved with
> finding the MONEY on which everything in our society depended and
> which I saw as a necessary job, he himself could not claim to have
> built ANYTHING in the physical sense, unless we returned to his days
> as a school-boy during which he and his fellows had assembled an 8"
> reflecting telescope. * Sports-wise he played golf and tennis. When he
> mentioned 'crew' I asked if he meant rowing or sailing and in doing so
> probably revealed my short-comings as a councilor, for there followed
> a lengthy gap in our messages. *We eventually settled on rowing AND
> sailing, both done while in college but the latter still engaged in
> although not as a major activity. *I believe he said his age was 54
> and I recall listing his abilities as sailing a boat, driving a car
> and piloting an airplane but if he had a leaky faucet he would call a
> plumber.
>
> As for his financial status he said -- more than once -- 'There's
> simply no money.' *Which wasn't quite true. *There was 'no money'
> relative to 'money' as defined by his working experience. *Could he
> afford a 1/4" drill motor from Harbor Freight? *(At that time listed
> for about $14.00.) *That got a rather confused reply involving someone
> building an RV-4, the 'builder's kit' which proved hilariously
> inadequate, failing to mention the REQUIRED air compressor, hoses,
> regulators and so forth. *And of COURSE he could afford a drill-motor
> costing less than twenty dollars, although he was fairly sure *I* may
> have been mislead with the cost of building an aluminum airplane.
>
> Then (and now) Aluminum sheet stock various sources was going
> for ...about two bucks a pound. *(That's a very wishy-washy 'two
> bucks' but the early worm and all that... I've picked up .016 in 5' x
> 25' sheets for eighty-six cents per pound. *It was a local new/surplus
> item the bulk of which eventually went to a Boeing sub-contractor.
> But half a dozen sheets managed to fly into my shop before the truck
> headed north.)
>
> The man from Illinois was excited to learn there was a new/surplus
> market for aviation-grade materials. *I don't know what he did about
> it but I never heard another word about the cost of materials. *But
> there were plenty of other things to cause him to hint, always
> politely, that I may have been out of the field a bit too long; that
> he was convinced only a HIGHLY SKILLED metal-smith could duplicate
> Cal's efforts.
>
> Rather than argue the point I steered him to the CX4 Group. *That was
> about two years ago. *I *haven't heard from him since.
>
> The point here is that the only barriers capable of PREVENTING you
> from building a safe, reliable airplane are: *1. *Yourself. *2. *Your
> language and 3. Your location.
>
> Did he? *Didn't he? *I don't know.
>
> -Bob

Hey Bob! Glad to see you're still at it.

Monk

[Monk]

On Mar 27, 12:43*pm, " > wrote:
> Mention 'The Man From Illinois' and most people will say 'Abe
> Lincoln.' *And I mean, most people EVERYWHERE. *But for me the 'man
> from Illinois' will always be the fellow who asked my opinion
> regarding the least expensive way for him to fly. *To give him an
> honest answer I needed to know a bit more about him and for a time we
> exchanged messages on an almost daily basis.
>
> He wasn't a tool user in that earning his daily bread did not depend
> upon driving a truck, *building a house nor using one machine to make
> another, as would be the case of a machinist (at the component level)
> nor assembling parts made by others, such as someone on an assembly
> line or building bulldozers or what-have-you. *Indeed, during our
> exchange the fellow finally admitted with a laugh that while he
> FACILITATED the building of things, in that he was involved with
> finding the MONEY on which everything in our society depended and
> which I saw as a necessary job, he himself could not claim to have
> built ANYTHING in the physical sense, unless we returned to his days
> as a school-boy during which he and his fellows had assembled an 8"
> reflecting telescope. * Sports-wise he played golf and tennis. When he
> mentioned 'crew' I asked if he meant rowing or sailing and in doing so
> probably revealed my short-comings as a councilor, for there followed
> a lengthy gap in our messages. *We eventually settled on rowing AND
> sailing, both done while in college but the latter still engaged in
> although not as a major activity. *I believe he said his age was 54
> and I recall listing his abilities as sailing a boat, driving a car
> and piloting an airplane but if he had a leaky faucet he would call a
> plumber.
>
> As for his financial status he said -- more than once -- 'There's
> simply no money.' *Which wasn't quite true. *There was 'no money'
> relative to 'money' as defined by his working experience. *Could he
> afford a 1/4" drill motor from Harbor Freight? *(At that time listed
> for about $14.00.) *That got a rather confused reply involving someone
> building an RV-4, the 'builder's kit' which proved hilariously
> inadequate, failing to mention the REQUIRED air compressor, hoses,
> regulators and so forth. *And of COURSE he could afford a drill-motor
> costing less than twenty dollars, although he was fairly sure *I* may
> have been mislead with the cost of building an aluminum airplane.
>
> Then (and now) Aluminum sheet stock various sources was going
> for ...about two bucks a pound. *(That's a very wishy-washy 'two
> bucks' but the early worm and all that... I've picked up .016 in 5' x
> 25' sheets for eighty-six cents per pound. *It was a local new/surplus
> item the bulk of which eventually went to a Boeing sub-contractor.
> But half a dozen sheets managed to fly into my shop before the truck
> headed north.)
>
> The man from Illinois was excited to learn there was a new/surplus
> market for aviation-grade materials. *I don't know what he did about
> it but I never heard another word about the cost of materials. *But
> there were plenty of other things to cause him to hint, always
> politely, that I may have been out of the field a bit too long; that
> he was convinced only a HIGHLY SKILLED metal-smith could duplicate
> Cal's efforts.
>
> Rather than argue the point I steered him to the CX4 Group. *That was
> about two years ago. *I *haven't heard from him since.
>
> The point here is that the only barriers capable of PREVENTING you
> from building a safe, reliable airplane are: *1. *Yourself. *2. *Your
> language and 3. Your location.
>
> Did he? *Didn't he? *I don't know.
>
> -Bob

Hey Bob! Glad to see you're still at it.

Monk

[Bob Hoover]

On Mar 27, 4:22*pm, Monk > wrote:

> Hey Bob! *Glad to see you're still at it.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Monk,

You'll have to define 'it'

Peering into my own body? Not by incision nor X-ray but
electronically using Magnetic Resonance Imaging. That's a big IT .
If you can stand the pain or the noise, you can get a 'Full Body Scan'
for your IT.

I couldn't stand the pain of the painless procedure.

Indeed, the procedure itself IS perfectly painless -- everyone sez
so. It was the position -- flat on my back -- which proved
intolerable.

As for the procedure... when your body is inserted into a powerful...
a POWERFUL magnetic field, the molecules within the cells that are
randomly aligned re-align themselves with drill-team precision. Now
hit them with a jolt of electromagnetic energy, such as your favorite
Top Forty radio station, and they will try to align themselves with
that.

As a ham radio operator I was interested in the procedure but that
interest quickly wained when I saw the powerful magnet was roughly
akin to a sewer pipe of claustrophobic dimensions. But the back pain
was too much. I managed to get through the exam -- about 15 minutes
-- but I would need massive amounts of pain-killers to last any
longer.

What happens when they hit your aligned molecules with RF is that each
molecule tries to realign to an angle that is -- apparently --
proportional to the RF. And it is that emitted signal the machine
records. My back was good for 58 megabytes which, when viewed with
the appropriate software, has Kodachrome detail of tissue as well as
bone. Tumors are revealed, as well as the honeycomb of what was once
good, healthy bone.

Does anyone even remember Kodachrome in these digital days? I recall
a then-famous money manager urging everyone to buy Kodak...

Looking at the image of my spine reveals the rather disturbing fact
that my #5 Lumbar Vertebrae is gone, save for a sickle-shaped shard of
bone industriously digging into the meat & muscle, producing
spectacular light-shows of pain. The bone doctor isn't too happy with
my spine, which he sees as a playground. I'm not too happy with it
myself, since everything is connected to it.

In effect, the missing vertebrae has been replaced with Pain.

They've already tried gluing it back together. They, meaning
physicians, don't like to mention their failures but the glue-job was
one of their less-than-perfect efforts. What they're talking now is a
Graft Job. Given their success with the J.B.Weld I'm wary of giving
them the go-ahead. After all, they have an endless supply of
patients, some of whom I assume they see on time, whereas I have only
one spine to play with, which I always deliver ON -TIME rather than 45
minutes late.

I mean, think about it. If the guy isn't competent to read a clock do
you really want him rummaging around in your spine?

So my '..it..' for today is Thinking, as in Thinking About It.

-Bob

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Bob Hoover" > wrote

They've already tried gluing it back together. They, meaning
physicians, don't like to mention their failures but the glue-job was
one of their less-than-perfect efforts. What they're talking now is a
Graft Job. Given their success with the J.B.Weld I'm wary of giving
them the go-ahead. After all, they have an endless supply of
patients, some of whom I assume they see on time, whereas I have only
one spine to play with, which I always deliver ON -TIME rather than 45
minutes late.

I mean, think about it. If the guy isn't competent to read a clock do
you really want him rummaging around in your spine?
************************************************** *********************************
Unfortunately, fixing fritzed backs is what doctors are the worst at. The best
of them will tell you that they only have a 50-50 chance of fixing it.

But, having been there myself, I was jumping at the 50% chance they could make
the pain go away.

How did I do? Some where in the lower part of the 50%. The pain has gotten no
worse, which it would have if I did nothing, but it didn't go away, either.It
comes down to choices, I know, but if I were you, I would throw the dice and let
them at it. Things ain't worth a damn if you can't even lay down for 15
minutes, without extreme pain, right? I would think they could improve on that,
anyway.

I've got some dead guy's bone in my spine. It was a tough couple months,
afterwards, but you seem to be able to handle tough ok. Just don't let them
take the bone out of your hip or something. I've heard people who did that say
their back is fine, but their hip hurts like stink.

Hope you figure it all out, and recover well.
--
Jim in NC

[Tech Support]

Bob

I have a bad back from my ejection from a jet. Was an early seat and
hard on spine during ejection and then landed on fozen rocks in
GreenLand.

One thing I use. is capsaicin (pepper juice, don't laugh).

1. Over the counter.
2. Can be applied as often as reqired. (On bad days I put on every
hour or so)
3. Doctors know about it but being over the counter they don't have to
prescribe.
4. When you start it may feel warm or hot especislly if you are out in
sun and prespiring.
5.I've been using for many years and I now don't evn feel any heat.
Just the pain quits in a few minutes and all of a sudden if I think
about it I say bejeuse the pain is gone.
6.Generic is not expensive.
7.Use roll on and not cream which puts on your hands and if you touch
your eyes with pepper juice it smarts :o)

If you try and helps I can give you an address near Houston that you
can order over phone and they will ship to your door. I buy by the
half dozen.
8. This does not fix ur problem, just stops the pain.

Or if you want, let me know and I'll send you one of my roll ons to
try. With the good data you give to people need to keep you
operational :o)

Big John
************************************************


On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:01:10 -0700 (PDT), Bob Hoover
> wrote:

>On Mar 27, 4:22*pm, Monk > wrote:
>
>> Hey Bob! *Glad to see you're still at it.
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Dear Monk,
>
>You'll have to define 'it'
>
>Peering into my own body? Not by incision nor X-ray but
>electronically using Magnetic Resonance Imaging. That's a big IT .
>If you can stand the pain or the noise, you can get a 'Full Body Scan'
>for your IT.
>
>I couldn't stand the pain of the painless procedure.
>
>Indeed, the procedure itself IS perfectly painless -- everyone sez
>so. It was the position -- flat on my back -- which proved
>intolerable.
>
> As for the procedure... when your body is inserted into a powerful...
>a POWERFUL magnetic field, the molecules within the cells that are
>randomly aligned re-align themselves with drill-team precision. Now
>hit them with a jolt of electromagnetic energy, such as your favorite
>Top Forty radio station, and they will try to align themselves with
>that.
>
>As a ham radio operator I was interested in the procedure but that
>interest quickly wained when I saw the powerful magnet was roughly
>akin to a sewer pipe of claustrophobic dimensions. But the back pain
>was too much. I managed to get through the exam -- about 15 minutes
>-- but I would need massive amounts of pain-killers to last any
>longer.
>
>What happens when they hit your aligned molecules with RF is that each
>molecule tries to realign to an angle that is -- apparently --
>proportional to the RF. And it is that emitted signal the machine
>records. My back was good for 58 megabytes which, when viewed with
>the appropriate software, has Kodachrome detail of tissue as well as
>bone. Tumors are revealed, as well as the honeycomb of what was once
>good, healthy bone.
>
>Does anyone even remember Kodachrome in these digital days? I recall
>a then-famous money manager urging everyone to buy Kodak...
>
>Looking at the image of my spine reveals the rather disturbing fact
>that my #5 Lumbar Vertebrae is gone, save for a sickle-shaped shard of
>bone industriously digging into the meat & muscle, producing
>spectacular light-shows of pain. The bone doctor isn't too happy with
>my spine, which he sees as a playground. I'm not too happy with it
>myself, since everything is connected to it.
>
>In effect, the missing vertebrae has been replaced with Pain.
>
>They've already tried gluing it back together. They, meaning
>physicians, don't like to mention their failures but the glue-job was
>one of their less-than-perfect efforts. What they're talking now is a
>Graft Job. Given their success with the J.B.Weld I'm wary of giving
>them the go-ahead. After all, they have an endless supply of
>patients, some of whom I assume they see on time, whereas I have only
>one spine to play with, which I always deliver ON -TIME rather than 45
>minutes late.
>
>I mean, think about it. If the guy isn't competent to read a clock do
>you really want him rummaging around in your spine?
>
>So my '..it..' for today is Thinking, as in Thinking About It.
>
>-Bob

[Bob Hoover]

On Mar 28, 5:02*pm, Tech Support <> wrote:

> One thing I use. is capsaicin (pepper juice, don't laugh).
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Big John,

Maybe we should chalk this one up in the Eerie Dept.

Since an electric hot-pad appeared to provide some relief -- all in my
head, of course... I tried Vicks 'vapo-rub' (a necessity if you've
ever been on a body recover team).

And since Vicks seemed to work -- all in my head for sure, this
time... I tried something a bit worse..

Now, I KNOW the stuff doesn't work, okay? But I actually slept a few
hours in a row -- and felt enormously better for it.

----------------------------------------------------------

Your rub-on stuff MAY be something I was urged to try by a
professional 'sports trainer,' who described it as keeping the NFL
afloat. Except he vanished down the internet before passing along any
place to buy the stuff. So, yes please. I would love to have the
address. And promise not to tell through at least the first set of
fingernails.

-----------------------------------------------------------

But it DOES seem kinda odd... back hurts and we do what? Curl up
with our back a bit closer to the clan's fire? (And probably alienate
the clan Medicine Man, who insists it couldn't work... :-)

Bob

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Bob Hoover" > wrote

Your rub-on stuff MAY be something I was urged to try by a
professional 'sports trainer,' who described it as keeping the NFL
afloat. Except he vanished down the internet before passing along any
place to buy the stuff. So, yes please. I would love to have the
address. And promise not to tell through at least the first set of
fingernails.

-----------------------------------------------------------

But it DOES seem kinda odd... back hurts and we do what? Curl up
with our back a bit closer to the clan's fire? (And probably alienate
the clan Medicine Man, who insists it couldn't work... :-)

My wife tried that stuff, for a bum shoulder, so I tried some too.

A couple things that need to be ACCENTUATED with big john's cautions.

Bejesus, don't let that that stuff get in your eye. I had some on my hands and
touched my lips AFTER I washed them carefully, and I though I would die before
the burn went away. I can not IMAGINE how bad it would be in your eyes.

The bit about sweating. The stuff gets hotter with any water, so be very
careful about breaking a sweat for a few weeks after starting to use it.

A story. A lot of you know I teach carpentry, house construction, in high
school. We were out in a late spring warm day, and I had started using the
stuff about a week before. I started to sweat, and all of a sudden.... I was
running around in a circle, going WOOOOOP, WOOOP, WOOOP, as loud as I could,
because it was better than the string of words that I couldn't say in front of
my students. As I was circling, my shirt was coming off, too.

My students were laughing, but later said my back was redder than a fire truck.
It felt like it, and I was very glad when I finally cooled down. I've never
tried it again, cause I can never guarantee that I won't break a sweat.

The stuff is available for the asking at any pharmacy, but it might have to be
ordered. I think it comes in two different concentration, I think.

Sure, give it a try. The back surgery recovery will surely be easier after you
fully recover from the "C".
--
Jim in NC

[Tech Support]

Bob

Ur e-mail address keeps bouncing????

Big John
************************************************** ****
On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:10:43 -0700 (PDT), Bob Hoover
> wrote:

>On Mar 28, 5:02*pm, Tech Support <> wrote:
>
>> One thing I use. is capsaicin (pepper juice, don't laugh).
>>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Dear Big John,
>
>Maybe we should chalk this one up in the Eerie Dept.
>
>Since an electric hot-pad appeared to provide some relief -- all in my
>head, of course... I tried Vicks 'vapo-rub' (a necessity if you've
>ever been on a body recover team).
>
>And since Vicks seemed to work -- all in my head for sure, this
>time... I tried something a bit worse..
>
>Now, I KNOW the stuff doesn't work, okay? But I actually slept a few
>hours in a row -- and felt enormously better for it.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>Your rub-on stuff MAY be something I was urged to try by a
>professional 'sports trainer,' who described it as keeping the NFL
>afloat. Except he vanished down the internet before passing along any
>place to buy the stuff. So, yes please. I would love to have the
>address. And promise not to tell through at least the first set of
>fingernails.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>But it DOES seem kinda odd... back hurts and we do what? Curl up
>with our back a bit closer to the clan's fire? (And probably alienate
>the clan Medicine Man, who insists it couldn't work... :-)
>
>Bob

[Tech Support]

To all.

I get my Capsaicin @ Suppliment Spot, 1-877-205-0040. They take CC.
I use .075% and they have a lessor strength. Read prior postings about
heat and persperation. I have used for so long don't have heat
problem, just pain relief. Couldn't live without it. Cost between $5 &
$10. They have gone up a little like everything else numb nuts has
touched.

Big John

***********************************************
On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:14:05 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>
>"Bob Hoover" > wrote
>
>Your rub-on stuff MAY be something I was urged to try by a
>professional 'sports trainer,' who described it as keeping the NFL
>afloat. Except he vanished down the internet before passing along any
>place to buy the stuff. So, yes please. I would love to have the
>address. And promise not to tell through at least the first set of
>fingernails.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>But it DOES seem kinda odd... back hurts and we do what? Curl up
>with our back a bit closer to the clan's fire? (And probably alienate
>the clan Medicine Man, who insists it couldn't work... :-)
>
>My wife tried that stuff, for a bum shoulder, so I tried some too.
>
>A couple things that need to be ACCENTUATED with big john's cautions.
>
>Bejesus, don't let that that stuff get in your eye. I had some on my hands and
>touched my lips AFTER I washed them carefully, and I though I would die before
>the burn went away. I can not IMAGINE how bad it would be in your eyes.
>
>The bit about sweating. The stuff gets hotter with any water, so be very
>careful about breaking a sweat for a few weeks after starting to use it.
>
>A story. A lot of you know I teach carpentry, house construction, in high
>school. We were out in a late spring warm day, and I had started using the
>stuff about a week before. I started to sweat, and all of a sudden.... I was
>running around in a circle, going WOOOOOP, WOOOP, WOOOP, as loud as I could,
>because it was better than the string of words that I couldn't say in front of
>my students. As I was circling, my shirt was coming off, too.
>
>My students were laughing, but later said my back was redder than a fire truck.
>It felt like it, and I was very glad when I finally cooled down. I've never
>tried it again, cause I can never guarantee that I won't break a sweat.
>
>The stuff is available for the asking at any pharmacy, but it might have to be
>ordered. I think it comes in two different concentration, I think.
>
>Sure, give it a try. The back surgery recovery will surely be easier after you
>fully recover from the "C".

[Bob Hoover]

On Mar 28, 3:52*pm, "Morgans" > wrote:

************************************************** *********************************
> Unfortunately, fixing fritzed backs is what doctors are the worst at. *The best
> of them will tell you that they only have a 50-50 chance of fixing it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Jim,

I find no fault with your logic nor did I try to test it against my
own. The grit behind an opinion posted publicly is warmly
appreciated. Indeed, it will probably be the path I'll follow. But
we put such effort into presenting our bodies to the knife, to be
treated so callously truly adds insult to injury. However, I am
presently awash with chemicals that often cause me to misconstrue such
oafish behavior. By expecting polite behavior from a an over-paid and
ill-educated technician is to put reality at risk :-)

Since time is the only resource of which I have a surplus -- and even
that perception is flawed if we use the Grim Reaper's clock -- I'll
spend it lavishly in hopes (laughable) of finding some Silver Bullet
instead of an ill-mannered oaf likely to send out for pizza should the
procedure run a bit too long.

-Bob

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:02:48 -0500, Tech Support <> wrote:

>Bob
>
>I have a bad back from my ejection from a jet. Was an early seat and
>hard on spine during ejection and then landed on fozen rocks in
>GreenLand.
>
>One thing I use. is capsaicin (pepper juice, don't laugh).
>

I think what you are doing is stimulating an adjacent nerve pathway.
up in the top of your spine in the back of your head is a nerve
integrating structure which seems to multitask the pathways.
if you stimulate an adjacent nerve the system stops processing the
original pathway and swaps to the new sensation. ...for a while.

same characteristic we are exploiting when scratching an itch.

btw there is nothing stopping Bob from reaching over to the guy and
saying "it may be just the drugs I'm pumped full of at the moment but
could you stop being an asshole while you are working with me. I'm
just a regular person in a lot of pain you know."
the guy may not be aware of how people perceive his body language.

(not even 2c worth)
Stealth Pilot

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Bob Hoover" > wrote


Dear Jim,

I find no fault with your logic nor did I try to test it against my
own. The grit behind an opinion posted publicly is warmly
appreciated. Indeed, it will probably be the path I'll follow. But
we put such effort into presenting our bodies to the knife, to be
treated so callously truly adds insult to injury. However, I am
presently awash with chemicals that often cause me to misconstrue such
oafish behavior. By expecting polite behavior from a an over-paid and
ill-educated technician is to put reality at risk :-)

Since time is the only resource of which I have a surplus -- and even
that perception is flawed if we use the Grim Reaper's clock -- I'll
spend it lavishly in hopes (laughable) of finding some Silver Bullet
instead of an ill-mannered oaf likely to send out for pizza should the
procedure run a bit too long.
************************************************** *****
I understand your sentiment on this subject, also. I was not pleased with my
1st back procedure, or my second one. I found someone different for my second
one, and if I have to undergo a third one, I would think long and hard, and
probably try to find a third practice to have a go at it.

It is kind of like appreciating a weather man. There are not too many
occupations where you are considered a genius, if you are able to be right 50%
of the time. It seems a back surgeon is another one of the occupations. To be
poorly treated by one on top of that is inexcusable.

Good luck on which ever and when ever way you go. Your medical dilemmas are
always at the top of my thoughts.
--
Jim in NC

[Tri-Pacer[_3_]]

This is an extermely useful thread for me.

I just spent an hour and a half in the MRI machine at the V.A. here in San
Diego. I've already had one surgery involving the lower 6 vertebrae and now
4 years later symptoms are returning in spades.

The VA gave me a machine that applies a pulsed voltage that varies in pulse
width and repetition rate. You put sticky pads on, placed to put the current
through the painful area. I've only had it for a few days and I'm not
convinced that it is worth the effort. Time will tell.

The capsaicin is on my shopping list. Sports Cream helps quite a bit.

Cheers:

Paul

[Bob Hoover]

On Mar 29, 9:32*am, "Tri-Pacer" > wrote:

> The VA gave me a machine that applies a pulsed voltage that varies in pulse
> width and repetition rate. You put sticky pads on, placed to put the current
> through the painful area. I've only had it for a few days and I'm not
> convinced that it is worth the effort. Time will tell.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Paul,

I wish to hell I knew how to put the damn thing on! On the advice of
my sister, who was an x-ray technician for nearly twenty years before
she got in to teaching, the thing is supposed to work like Gang
Busters. Well... mebbe they do, once the pads are properly positioned
and the pulse magnitude & duration are properly set. But going at it
blind was a waste of time, as was seeking help from a physician, who
labeled the thing as snake oil and wouldn't even discuss it.

I bought mime via the internet, by the way. I think the price was
about $30. It is the same unit used by my sister... who got hers
through some kind of 'well-ness clinic' ...for about $200. The
'clinic,' which she swears by, is also into 'crystal healing' and all
kinds of 'healing teas,' the ingredients of which would probably have
a dope-sniffing dog humping your leg. Back in the 1990's this same
idea -- an oscillator that pumped a minor jolt through a pair of
sticky-patch electrodes -- was being offered as the Sure Thing for
muscle pain in athletes. I took mine apart and found a house-labeled
NE555 wired up as a variable oscillator, plus a switching circuit. It
ran off a 9v battery and was touted by some as a sure cure for
everything from cancer to bad breath.

-Bob

[[email protected]]

On Mar 28, 10:50 pm, Stealth Pilot >
wrote:

> I think what you are doing is stimulating an adjacent nerve pathway.
> up in the top of your spine in the back of your head is a nerve
> integrating structure which seems to multitask the pathways.
> if you stimulate an adjacent nerve the system stops processing the
> original pathway and swaps to the new sensation. ...for a while.

Maybe. One doctor told me that such things work by irritating the
nerves in the skin. This draws more blood flow to the entire region,
including the muscle mass and joints underlying the skin that's
irritated, and the extra blood washes away the excess lactic acid
formed when muscles are in spasm too long. And they're in spasm
because nerves in and around them are being pinched or annoyed by
inflammation. The lactic acid burns the nerve endings. The
inflammation in muscles and joints could be due to the lactic acid,
too.
So almost any irritant will work. Isopropyl aclohol, various
liniments, pepper juice. Others are forms of topical anaesthetics like
menthol or eucalyptus or camphor. Those deaden nerve endings. Vinegar
is also a mild anaesthetic and works on mosquito bites and mild
sunburn and other itches.

My Mom gave me some pepper juice roll-on stuff in the more
expensive form of Lakota. It works. And stings the most when I'm in
the shower long after it was applied.

Dan

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Bob Hoover" > wrote

I wish to hell I knew how to put the damn thing on! On the advice of
my sister, who was an x-ray technician for nearly twenty years before
she got in to teaching, the thing is supposed to work like Gang
Busters. Well... mebbe they do, once the pads are properly positioned
and the pulse magnitude & duration are properly set. But going at it
blind was a waste of time, as was seeking help from a physician, who
labeled the thing as snake oil and wouldn't even discuss it.

I've got one sitting in a drawer, and have not had it on in a couple years. It
did a little, maybe, but not much. Not enough to bother, IMHO. Some people
swear by them, though.
--
Jim in NC