Turnpoint File Management

[Papa3]

So, I now have multiple loggers (an older CAI Model 20 and an EW
Microrecorder). I've got all of my task planning set up on SeeYou.
SeeYou can export waypoints and tasks in multiple formats. So far so
good.

Now, the problem. The older CAI can only handle 250 waypoints. There
are more than 500 waypoints in my file. I have a long task which
isn't conveniently laid out such that a "four corners" approach can
restrict me to only those turnpoints relevant to the task (it's a long
triangle). I don't see any way in SeeYou to conveniently restrict
the output of the CAI format file to only those points that fall
within the task area.

Anyone have any ideas? I'd prefer to find a way to use SeeYou for
this to avoid having multiple versions of the files floating around,
but I'm open to other options...

Thanks,
Erik Mann
LS8-18 P3

[Andy[_1_]]

On Mar 29, 7:43*am, Papa3 > wrote:
> So, I now have multiple loggers (an older CAI Model 20 and an EW
> Microrecorder). * I've got all of my task planning set up on SeeYou.
> SeeYou can export waypoints and tasks in multiple formats. *So far so
> good.
>
> Now, the problem. * The older CAI can only handle 250 waypoints. There
> are more than 500 waypoints in my file. * I have a long task which
> isn't conveniently laid out such that a "four corners" approach can
> restrict me to only those turnpoints relevant to the task (it's a long
> triangle). * I don't see any way in SeeYou to conveniently restrict
> the output of the CAI format file to only those points that fall
> within the task area.
>
> Anyone have any ideas? *I'd prefer to find a way to use SeeYou for
> this to avoid having multiple versions of the files floating around,
> but I'm open to other options...
>
> Thanks,
> Erik Mann
> LS8-18 P3

Why do you need any turnpoints in the CAI 20? Are you using it for
navigation? I have a model 25 and it still has an old turnpoint file
from probably over 10 years ago. All it does it is make it beep when
I fly over Aguila which used to be the first turnpoint in our local
database. Not having a current database does not prevent the CAI from
being used as a (in my case backup)logger.

Andy

[Mozarella.org]

Hi Erik,

There are several ways to do that. The waypoints that are selected when you
do a "Save" will be included in the file. Please see the training video #29
"Exporting Waypoints" in the link below.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/training.htm#Training-SeeYou

Let me know if that doesn't work for you.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Papa3" > wrote in message
...
> So, I now have multiple loggers (an older CAI Model 20 and an EW
> Microrecorder). I've got all of my task planning set up on SeeYou.
> SeeYou can export waypoints and tasks in multiple formats. So far so
> good.
>
> Now, the problem. The older CAI can only handle 250 waypoints. There
> are more than 500 waypoints in my file. I have a long task which
> isn't conveniently laid out such that a "four corners" approach can
> restrict me to only those turnpoints relevant to the task (it's a long
> triangle). I don't see any way in SeeYou to conveniently restrict
> the output of the CAI format file to only those points that fall
> within the task area.
>
> Anyone have any ideas? I'd prefer to find a way to use SeeYou for
> this to avoid having multiple versions of the files floating around,
> but I'm open to other options...
>
> Thanks,
> Erik Mann
> LS8-18 P3

[Tuno]

Erik,

You're not using the CAI for navigation, right? The only reason you'd
need turnpoints in there is for electronic declarations for badges and
record attempts. So for those, just put in the ones you need for that
purpose.

What do you use for navigation?

2NO

[Papa3]

On Mar 29, 11:36*am, Tuno > wrote:
> Erik,
>
> You're not using the CAI for navigation, right? The only reason you'd
> need turnpoints in there is for electronic declarations for badges and
> record attempts. So for those, just put in the ones you need for that
> purpose.
>
> What do you use for navigation?
>
> 2NO

What can I say... I'm old-fashioned (read: Cheap). Yeah, the primary
NAV in P3 is the Model 20 communicating to an old Compaq Aero running
GNII. I want the primary declaration to be in the Model 20 along
with all of the landing points within the triangular task area. The
EW will be the "dumb" backup with an exact duplicate of the
declaration.

What I was hoping someone would say is "Oh sure, there's an option in
SeeYou mysteriously hidden under some non-intutitive submenu to
'select waypoints within task area'". I can dream...

I do know a brute force way around this, but i'd prefer not to have to
semi-manually go in and pick the landpoints.

[Papa3]

On Mar 29, 11:32*am, "Mozarella.org" > wrote:
> Hi Erik,
>
> There are several ways to do that. *The waypoints that are selected when you
> do a "Save" will be included in the file. *Please see the training video #29
> "Exporting Waypoints" in the link below.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/training.htm#Training-SeeYou
>
> Let me know if that doesn't work for you.
>
> Good Soaring,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> "Papa3" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > So, I now have multiple loggers (an older CAI Model 20 and an EW
> > Microrecorder). * I've got all of my task planning set up on SeeYou.
> > SeeYou can export waypoints and tasks in multiple formats. *So far so
> > good.
>
> > Now, the problem. * The older CAI can only handle 250 waypoints. There
> > are more than 500 waypoints in my file. * I have a long task which
> > isn't conveniently laid out such that a "four corners" approach can
> > restrict me to only those turnpoints relevant to the task (it's a long
> > triangle). * I don't see any way in SeeYou to conveniently restrict
> > the output of the CAI format file to only those points that fall
> > within the task area.
>
> > Anyone have any ideas? *I'd prefer to find a way to use SeeYou for
> > this to avoid having multiple versions of the files floating around,
> > but I'm open to other options...
>
> > Thanks,
> > Erik Mann
> > LS8-18 P3- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Paul,

Awesome. Iterative passes at shift and drag gave me exactly what I
wanted. Many thanks!

P3

[5Z]

On Mar 29, 10:02*am, Papa3 > wrote:
> What can I say... I'm old-fashioned (read: Cheap). *Yeah, the primary
> NAV in P3 is the Model 20 communicating to an old Compaq Aero running
> GNII. * I want the primary declaration to be in the Model 20 along
> with all of the landing points within the triangular task area.

You still don't need to have any waypoints in the Model 20. I used to
have a setup like that in my old ship and had a whole lot more than
250 waypoints in the Aero, and none in the '20. When I'd declare a
task in GNII, it would upload the needed waypoints into the Model 20.

That was back in 2000, so my memory might be a bit foggy, but an
pretty sure that's how I did it.

-Tom

[JS]

Erik, you're on to the right way of doing it. Don't rely on a PDA to
remain connected to the logger. They can fail, and also pilot errors
such as finding as you load up the glider that you left the PDA at
home are not unheard of.
(Such foolishness could be a reason I always have a panel-mounted GPS
display too.)
Jim

[Papa3]

On Mar 29, 3:53*pm, 5Z > wrote:
> On Mar 29, 10:02*am, Papa3 > wrote:
>
> > What can I say... I'm old-fashioned (read: Cheap). *Yeah, the primary
> > NAV in P3 is the Model 20 communicating to an old Compaq Aero running
> > GNII. * I want the primary declaration to be in the Model 20 along
> > with all of the landing points within the triangular task area.
>
> You still don't need to have any waypoints in the Model 20. *I used to
> have a setup like that in my old ship and had a whole lot more than
> 250 waypoints in the Aero, and none in the '20. *When I'd declare a
> task in GNII, it would upload the needed waypoints into the Model 20.
>
> That was back in 2000, so my memory might be a bit foggy, but an
> pretty sure that's how I did it.
>
> -Tom

Hi Tom,

Yes and no. It will load the points. However, it can be a "creaky"
solution. I had at least one record flight squished when I went to
load special use airspace after the task had been declared. I did
this in flight, and sure enough, it tried to reload all of the
waypoints but stopped at 250. Unfortunately, one of the ones
required for the task wasn't there, and it then threw some sort of
"invalid task" error. I just want to make sure that I have one and
only one file to use and that everthing is nice and neat before
takeoff.

Frankly, I'm doing this out of an "excess of caution", as I will make
sure that the backup logger and main logger have the same task
declarations, and it's a flight I can fly without really needing the
PDA.

P3

[Eric Greenwell]

Papa3 wrote:

>
> Frankly, I'm doing this out of an "excess of caution", as I will make
> sure that the backup logger and main logger have the same task
> declarations, and it's a flight I can fly without really needing the
> PDA.

Are you allowed to have two declarations? Or do you need a paper
declaration if you want to use more than one logger?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Papa3]

On Mar 30, 3:56*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> Papa3 wrote:
>
> > Frankly, I'm doing this out of an "excess of caution", as I will make
> > sure that the backup logger and main logger have the same task
> > declarations, and it's a flight I can fly without really needing the
> > PDA.
>
> Are you allowed to have two declarations? Or do you need a paper
> declaration if you want to use more than one logger?
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> * "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> * * * Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more
>
> * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org

Yes and no. The answer in SC3C (OO Guide) is as follows:

Where more than one FR is carried, each one must be checked to ensure
the last declaration made
before take-off is applied to the flight. This may be an electronic or
a written declaration, whichever is
closest to the take-off time. (Note the timing warning given in para
7.4.) Some pilots may prefer to
make a written declaration even though carrying a flight recorder or
recorders to avoid making electronic
changes at a busy period before take-off. Pilots would be well advised
to prepare and use a
declaration form that ensures that all the required data required is
included. (See SC3 4.1 and sample
form in Appendix 10 in this Annex).

So, you obviously can't have two different courses declared in
different FRs and then pick the one that you end up flying. However,
it's up to the OO to look at both loggers to make sure this doesn't
happen. Now, if, for example, I had made the declaration on the
Cambridge Model 20 before flight but accidentally tromped on it in
flight, then it would no longer be "the last declaration made before
takeoff" in which case my read is that the backup would then contain
the official declaration. Unless I had made a written declaration
which is time stamped after the one on the backup.

I (almost always) do a written declaration as well, since my trust in
all things electronic is less than iron-clad. However, since the
last FR declaration before takeoff is official, I do want to make sure
that the chances of a screw-up are minimized.

P3

[Papa3]

On Mar 30, 5:36*pm, Papa3 > wrote:
> On Mar 30, 3:56*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Papa3 wrote:
>
> > > Frankly, I'm doing this out of an "excess of caution", as I will make
> > > sure that the backup logger and main logger have the same task
> > > declarations, and it's a flight I can fly without really needing the
> > > PDA.
>
> > Are you allowed to have two declarations? Or do you need a paper
> > declaration if you want to use more than one logger?
>
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> > * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> > * "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> > * * * Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more
>
> > * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org
>
> Yes and no. * The answer in SC3C (OO Guide) is as follows:
>
> Where more than one FR is carried, each one must be checked to ensure
> the last declaration made
> before take-off is applied to the flight. This may be an electronic or
> a written declaration, whichever is
> closest to the take-off time. (Note the timing warning given in para
> 7.4.) Some pilots may prefer to
> make a written declaration even though carrying a flight recorder or
> recorders to avoid making electronic
> changes at a busy period before take-off. Pilots would be well advised
> to prepare and use a
> declaration form that ensures that all the required data required is
> included. (See SC3 4.1 and sample
> form in Appendix 10 in this Annex).
>
> So, you obviously can't have two different courses declared in
> different FRs and then pick the one that you end up flying. *However,
> it's up to the OO to look at both loggers to make sure this doesn't
> happen. * *Now, if, for example, I had made the declaration on the
> Cambridge Model 20 before flight but accidentally tromped on it in
> flight, then it would no longer be "the last declaration made before
> takeoff" in which case my read is that the backup would then contain
> the official declaration. * Unless I had made a written declaration
> which is time stamped after the one on the backup.
>
> I (almost always) do a written declaration as well, since my trust in
> all things electronic is less than iron-clad. * However, since the
> last FR declaration before takeoff is official, I do want to make sure
> that the chances of a screw-up are minimized.
>
> P3- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Last sentence should read "However, since the last declaration before
takeoff is official..."