Anyone ever panel mounted a PCAS MRX?

[Matt Herron Jr.]

Just wondering if you could share any lessons learned before I do
this. Zaon sells an extension kit for the antenna, and a panel mount
kit ( http://www.zaon.aero/content/view/2/41/ ) Any antenna mounting
dos and don't for this device? Can I put it next to the transponder
antenna? I will put a ferrite bead on the power line as noted in
earlier posts. I was also thinking of running the audio into the aux
line of my radio to mix in the alerts into the headset. Anyone ever
done this?

Thanks,

Matt (Jr)

[Darryl Ramm]

On Apr 1, 9:15*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." > wrote:
> Just wondering if you could share any lessons learned before I do
> this. Zaon sells an extension kit for the antenna, and a panel mount
> kit (http://www.zaon.aero/content/view/2/41/) Any antenna mounting
> dos and don't for this device? *Can I put it next to the transponder
> antenna?

[snip]

Within reason. The installation manual addresses minimum spacing
between antennas.

For a carbon fuselage I would not be rushing to drill another hole to
mount the Zaon antenna. For a fiberglass fuselage you might find a
home for the antenna somewhere inside away from metal components.

The helical antenna the MRX comes with is not the same as a 1/4 wave
antenna and does not need a ground plane. If you use a traditional
transponder/DME 1/4 wave antenna you need a ground plane just like
when installing it for a transponder.

If you want to make the antenna remote you need to go to larger coax
and BNC connectors rather than the thin stuff and SMA connectors used
for the short antenna extension. More adapters and thick coax to deal
with.

Personally I'd try to avoid using a transponder antenna and do
something simple like use the small helical antenna on suction cups to
hold it some place handy near the instrument panel. Before doing
anything fly with the Zaon just on top of your panel and make sure it
works OK (reads the local transponder OK, etc.) and you are happy with
it. If you have space near the top of the panel I'd also consider
simple things like using the antenna attached to the unit and poking
though a hole in the top of the instrument panel cover/glareshield. As
long as it is clear of metal things behind the panel.


Darryl

[Matt[_2_]]

Thanks Darryl.

Any thoughts on running the PCAS audio out into the aux in on the
radio?

[John Cochrane]

I put my MRX on the canopy sidewall. My panel is full with
transponder, clearnav, etc., and I didn't want anything on top of the
glareshield. It works fine on the side wall of the canopy, and there's
no interference.
John Cochrane

[Darryl Ramm]

On Apr 3, 7:18*am, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> I put my MRX on the canopy sidewall. My panel is full with
> transponder, clearnav, etc., and I didn't want anything on top of the
> glareshield. It works fine on the side wall of the canopy, and there's
> no interference.
> John Cochrane

Out of interest where is the antenna? Did you use the short extension
one with suction cups?

Somewhat away from metal objects, with a line of sight to as much of
the outside world as possible, not hiding behind carbon fiber and
vertically oriented are the things to try for.

Darryl

[kd6veb]

Hi Gang
I own 3 MRXs and have them mounted on the glare shields of the
SparrowHawk, the Stemme and the Jabiru J250 above the instrument
panel. They all work fine. This is the best place for them especially
for carbon fiber ships as they then have good RF visibility to pick up
signals. Secondly the cross sectional area of the front of the MRX is
so small as not to significantly affect visibility looking forward and
their red LED display and audio transducer are right in front of your
nose for good visibility and audibility. Although the MRX will get hot
on the glare shield this does not appear to be a problem. Next the
small antenna that connects to the side of the MRX works just fine.
Don't mess around with remote antennas - not necessary. Use the velcro
buttons that come with the MRX to attach the MRX to the glare shield.
Finally although the MRX can use a couple of internal AAA batteries it
is better to connect to the glider 12 volt battery. On all 3 of my
flying machines I have added 12 volt auto sockets and use the power
cables that come with the MRX.
So what are you waiting for? Go buy one and enhance your flying
safety. Probably the best bang per buck for safety around. For the
best price Google "Zaon MRX" and you will find the best price is $449
with free shipping and no tax. Again what are you waiting for?
Dave

PS Although the MRX will enhance safety I want to make it clear that
it should come after the installation of a transponder. The single
most important safety item is a transponder. Unfortunately it is also
much more expensive than the MRX.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Apr 2, 11:45*pm, Matt > wrote:
> Thanks Darryl.
>
> Any thoughts on running the PCAS audio out into the aux in on the
> radio?

Matt

My main thought is not to wear headphones when flying a glider!

I wear a headset (Clarity Aloft - highly recommended, compact and good
for noisy environments) in the motorglider but take them off as soon
as the noisy thingy gets put away. I want to be relaxed and hear the
glider and audio vario (turned way down low) talk to me.

If you have to wear headphones in a conventional glider then just
turning the volume up on the MRX may be enough as its piezo sound can
be pretty piercing. Also As Dave Bingham says, mounting the unit right
on top opf the glareshield gets that bright display in your field of
vision and makes it easy to quickly check the range/altitude if you
get an audio alert (so you can quickly get your head out of the
cockpit again). I mounted my MRX on both my DG-303 and ASH-26E on the
top of the glareshield with 3M Dual-Lock adhesive fastener tape (much
stronger than velcro and the adhesive does not turn to a messy slime
on hot days anywhere near as easily as the real Velcro brand high-
strength stuff does) and also attached a little sunshield made of 1/8"
thick matt acrylic sheet to the top of the MRX to make the display
even more readable and the air-gap between the sheet and the Zaon
seems to keep it cool on hot days. On the ASH-26E the Zaon actually
sits level on an angled base I made just to the side of center top of
the instrument panel cover. That way it's a bit lower and does not
obstruct the compass.

My MRX is at the gliderport and not home so I can't test it - does the
piezo speaker in the MRX still sound when the audio plug is connected
or does it disconnect the internal piezo speaker? If so that may be a
pain to have to keep unplugging it when not wearing headphones and
plug it back in again etc.

You say aux input on the radio. What radio? If a Becker AR4201 that
aux input was primarily designed for taking the speaker level audio
output from an ADF or VOR and routing it to a common speaker in small
aircraft that don't have an audio panel. The audio output from the
Zaon is intended to drive headphone/line in type inputs, but Zaon
don't seem to give exact specs. You may have to turn up the
sensitivity of the Becker AR4201 aux input. On the 4201 hold down the
MDE (Mode) key and turn on the unit. Press MDE until you see SF3
that's the aux audio input sensitivity. Play with adjusting that.

But again I think you are seriously over complicating a perfectly
simple install. I'd start by just sticking the unit on top of the
glareshield and see how it goes.

Darryl

[Darryl Ramm]

On Apr 3, 10:01*am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Apr 2, 11:45*pm, Matt > wrote:
>
> > Thanks Darryl.
>
> > Any thoughts on running the PCAS audio out into the aux in on the
> > radio?
>
> Matt
>
> My main thought is not to wear headphones when flying a glider!
>
> I wear a headset (Clarity Aloft - highly recommended, compact and good
> for noisy environments) in the motorglider but take them off as soon
> as the noisy thingy gets put away. I want to be relaxed and hear the
> glider and audio vario (turned way down low) *talk to me.
>
> If you have to wear headphones in a conventional glider then just
> turning the volume up on the MRX may be enough as its piezo sound can
> be pretty piercing. Also As Dave Bingham says, mounting the unit right
> on top opf the glareshield gets that bright display in your field of
> vision and makes it easy to quickly check the range/altitude if you
> get an audio alert (so you can quickly get your head out of the
> cockpit again). I mounted my MRX on both my DG-303 and ASH-26E on the
> top of the glareshield with 3M Dual-Lock adhesive fastener tape (much
> stronger than velcro and the adhesive does not turn to a messy slime
> on hot days anywhere near as easily as the real Velcro brand high-
> strength stuff does) and also attached a little sunshield made of 1/8"
> thick matt acrylic sheet to the top of the MRX to make the display
> even more readable and the air-gap between the sheet and the Zaon
> seems to keep it cool on hot days. On the ASH-26E the Zaon actually
> sits level on an angled base I made just to the side of center top of
> the instrument panel cover. That way it's a bit lower and does not
> obstruct the compass.
>
> My MRX is at the gliderport and not home so I can't test it - does the
> piezo speaker in the MRX still sound when the audio plug is connected
> or does it disconnect the internal piezo speaker? If so that may be a
> pain to have to keep unplugging it when not wearing headphones and
> plug it back in again etc.
>
> You say aux input on the radio. What radio? If a Becker AR4201 that
> aux input was primarily designed for taking the speaker level audio
> output from an ADF or VOR and routing it to a common speaker in small
> aircraft that don't have an audio panel. The audio output from the
> Zaon is intended to drive headphone/line in type inputs, but Zaon
> don't seem to give exact specs. You may have to turn up the
> sensitivity of the Becker AR4201 aux input. *On the 4201 hold down the
> MDE (Mode) key and turn on the unit. Press MDE until you see SF3
> that's the aux audio input sensitivity. Play with adjusting that.
>
> But again I think you are seriously over complicating a perfectly
> simple install. I'd start by just sticking the unit on top of the
> glareshield and see how it goes.
>
> Darryl

Oh well I realize the stupid logic there, even if the MRX internal
piezo speaker disconnected when you plugged in the audio out connector
you would still have the traffic alert through the radio speaker.

Darryl

[Andy[_1_]]

On Apr 3, 9:17*am, kd6veb > wrote:
> PS Although the MRX will enhance safety I want to make it clear that
> it should come after the installation of a transponder. The single
> most important safety item is a transponder.

I strongly disgree with that position. A PCAS offers the host
aircraft pilot increased awareness of all promimate transponder
equipped aircraft. A transponder offers the host aircraft pilot no
increased awareness of proximate aircraft unless receiving ATC
services. It also provides pilots of proximate aircraft no increased
awareness or protection unless they are either TCAS or PCAS equipped ,
or are receiving ATC services.

Off all the near misses I have had in 30 years of flying gliders I
estimate that none would have been avoided by my having a transponder
and nearly all of them would have been mitigated by PCAS.

Please note that I am not arguing against transponders, only about the
relative merits of PCAS and transponders.

I only have one MRX but it is portable and I seldom fly anything
without it.

Andy

[Darryl Ramm]

On Apr 3, 11:26*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Apr 3, 9:17*am, kd6veb > wrote:
>
> > PS Although the MRX will enhance safety I want to make it clear that
> > it should come after the installation of a transponder. The single
> > most important safety item is a transponder.
>
> I strongly disgree with that position. *A PCAS offers the host
> aircraft pilot increased awareness of all promimate transponder
> equipped aircraft. *A transponder offers the host aircraft pilot no
> increased awareness of proximate aircraft unless receiving ATC
> services. *It also provides pilots of proximate aircraft no increased
> awareness or protection unless they are either TCAS or PCAS equipped ,
> or are receiving ATC services.
>
> Off all the near misses I have had in 30 years of flying gliders I
> estimate that none would have been avoided by my having a transponder
> and nearly all of them would have been mitigated by PCAS.
>
> Please note that I am not arguing against transponders, only about the
> relative merits of PCAS and transponders.
>
> I only have one MRX but it is portable and I seldom fly anything
> without it.
>
> Andy

Many of us are impressed by the Zaon MRX as a tool to improve traffic
awareness. However I think Dave is talking locations like near Reno
where the concern is avoiding fast jets and commercial aircraft. In
which case we need pilots to install transponders, ATC will see you
(they often can't see primary radar returns) and TCAS in (almost all)
of the fast Jets and all of the airliners will do a much better job of
avoiding you than PCAS can in helping you avoid an airliner. The
relatively short range of PCAS type solution, a short delay in
identifying the threat aircraft, and the potential high closure rate
of a jet (above 10,000') may not provide much useful warning. ATC
Radar and TCAS as the ultimate backup is going to be much more
effective.

We had a near miss recently (this year) between an airliner and a
glider at Reno. We had a collision between a Hawker 800 and an ASG-29
a few years ago. Neither glider were using transponders or in
communication with Reno approach. If you fly near Reno its transponder
first please, follow the PASCO radio procedures and be in
communications with Reno approach (see http://www.pacificsoaring.org/safety..html#transponder)
and then maybe think about having a PCAS for enhancing your traffic
awareness. Going for a PCAS before a transponder in a Reno traffic
like environment would be a bad choice.

Darryl

[Darryl Ramm]

On Apr 3, 11:50*am, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Apr 3, 11:26*am, Andy > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 3, 9:17*am, kd6veb > wrote:
>
> > > PS Although the MRX will enhance safety I want to make it clear that
> > > it should come after the installation of a transponder. The single
> > > most important safety item is a transponder.
>
> > I strongly disgree with that position. *A PCAS offers the host
> > aircraft pilot increased awareness of all promimate transponder
> > equipped aircraft. *A transponder offers the host aircraft pilot no
> > increased awareness of proximate aircraft unless receiving ATC
> > services. *It also provides pilots of proximate aircraft no increased
> > awareness or protection unless they are either TCAS or PCAS equipped ,
> > or are receiving ATC services.
>
> > Off all the near misses I have had in 30 years of flying gliders I
> > estimate that none would have been avoided by my having a transponder
> > and nearly all of them would have been mitigated by PCAS.
>
> > Please note that I am not arguing against transponders, only about the
> > relative merits of PCAS and transponders.
>
> > I only have one MRX but it is portable and I seldom fly anything
> > without it.
>
> > Andy
>
> Many of us are impressed by the Zaon MRX as a tool to improve traffic
> awareness. However I think Dave is talking locations like near Reno
> where the concern is avoiding fast jets and commercial aircraft. In
> which case we need pilots to install transponders, ATC will see you
> (they often can't see primary radar returns) and TCAS in (almost all)
> of the fast Jets and all of the airliners will do a much better job of
> avoiding you than PCAS can in helping you avoid an airliner. The
> relatively short range of PCAS type solution, a short delay in
> identifying the threat aircraft, and the potential high closure rate
> of a jet (above 10,000') may not provide much useful warning. ATC
> Radar and TCAS as the ultimate backup is going to be much more
> effective.
>
> We had a near miss recently (this year) between an airliner and a
> glider at Reno. We had a collision between a Hawker 800 and an ASG-29
> a few years ago. Neither glider were using transponders or in
> communication with Reno approach. If you fly near Reno its transponder
> first please, follow the PASCO radio procedures and be in
> communications with Reno approach (seehttp://www.pacificsoaring.org/safety.html#transponder)
> and then maybe think about having a PCAS for enhancing your traffic
> awareness. Going for a PCAS before a transponder in a Reno traffic
> like environment would be a bad choice.
>
> Darryl

And I forgot to add I really do like the MRX - the reason I got one
was a close call with a Cessna 172/182. He was tracking inbound to a
VOR and popped out of some cloud scud. Flew right through my thermal
circle. I had my head out of the cockpit, I should have seen him, was
not that close to the clouds etc. Just may have been he was head on an
appeared stationary and hard to see against a jumbled background. He
never saw me and just kept going.

Darryl

[jcarlyle]

FWIW, I agree that the PCAS should come first. If nothing else, it
will teach you how to do a better scan. Airplanes are sometimes very
hard to see in flight, but if you absolutely know something is out
there you'll quickly learn how to look harder and better.

After two years with the MRX, I realized that while I was alerted to
other traffic (carrying transponders) they might be unaware of me. So
I installed a Becker ATC-4401-175. I have seen aircraft change their
course slightly to avoid me since the transponder went in, thus
proving its value.

I mounted my Zaon MRX in my ASW-19s panel, just under the top arch.
It's protected from the sun by the overhang of the glare shield, is
right in my field of vision, and is powered by the ship's battery. I
have no problem hearing its advisory or alert beeps, and there is no
radio interference.

Again FWIW, I use an 18" length of cable to extend the (stock) antenna
forward of the instrument panel. The antenna is midway between the
panel and the rudder pedals, right under the glare shield. It seems to
work just fine. The reason I moved it away from the MRX is because I
didn't want to poke it through the glare shield.

-John