How to install tubing on the te probe 1/2 way to the rudder?

[[email protected]]

The tubing from the instrument panel to the total energy probe has
fallen off. The total energy probe on my asw-15b is located half way
from the cockpit to the rudder. It's mounted from the inside of the
fuselage. There are no external bolts. The only thing outside is a
metal hole that curves aft 2.5 inches inside at the bottom of the
metal sleeve.

If my arm was 9 feet long I could easily reach back and slip the
tubing on it. Unfortunately my arm is about 3 feet long. Seems like
if I had a 2X2X8 with some sort of contraption built to hold the
tubing at the end, I could use that to place it on. I can't think of
any ideas to have a good firm grip to slide the tubing over the inside
mounting of the total energy probe.

Any thoughts?

Anyone know a midget I can fly into Mississippi?

[Tony Condon[_2_]]

no good recommendations, but good luck. sound like they started with a TE
probe and tube on a fixture in the factory, and then built a glider around
it.
-Tony Condon
Cherokee II N373Y

[[email protected]]

On Apr 2, 8:30*am, wrote:
> The tubing from the instrument panel to the total energy probe has
> fallen off. * The total energy probe on my asw-15b is located half way
> from the cockpit to the rudder. *It's mounted from the inside of the
> fuselage. *There are no external bolts. *The only thing outside is a
> metal hole that curves aft 2.5 inches inside at the bottom of the
> metal sleeve.
>
> If my arm was 9 feet long I could easily reach back and slip the
> tubing on it. *Unfortunately my arm is about 3 feet long. *Seems like
> if I had a 2X2X8 with some sort of contraption built to hold the
> tubing at the end, I could use that to place it on. *I can't think of
> any ideas to have a good firm grip to slide the tubing over the inside
> mounting of the total energy probe.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Anyone know a midget I can fly into Mississippi?

Sometimes these fittings are only lightly glued to the inside of the
fuselage.
If this is so, you can put a rod into the fitting(socket) and break it
loose so it can be removed. Then install new tubing, and reinstall.
This is done by threading a pulling string through the hole form the
outside, capturing with sticky stick and pulling it forward. Attach to
fitting, apply glue to fitting(socket) , and pull back into place.
Plugging a 1/4 inch(approx) diameter dowel or tube into socket willl
give you a handle for positioning and something to hold it in place
while it cures.
This is harder to describe than to do.
The other option is to install a new socket for TE probe in the fin
where it will work better anyway. Contact me at usual address for more
help.
UH

[Tim Mara[_2_]]

better you than me!
I had a Libelle that had the tail cone broken and repaired by a good
fiberglass glider repair shop....though unfortunately, they knew nothing
about radios and used TV RF Connectors pinched onto the old coax.....which
of course were incorrect type and then fell off anyway...I spent a day
fishing a new coax cable through a Libelle from the panel to the antenna in
the tail only because I was told it couldn't be done...never missed a single
tiny hole in the bulkheads with the new leads (Had the old cable been left
in place I could have spliced to it and dragged the new cable through, it
however fell loose about 1/2 way in the fuselage....
Anyway, you have to have patience.....and be creative....the 2x4 idea isn't
half bad, seriously..I could envision a tool (something smaller than a 2x4)
that could hold a tube in a way you could reach back there with and
reinstall....but, aside from this you could, simply pull out, drill out,
push out the old TE socket and epoxy in a new and better one, that would be
pretty quick and easy (I also have sockets and probes for this) and /or
better yet again, run the tube all the way back to the vertical fin and put
a proper fin TE probe in...in any case, again glad it's not mine :o) But I
can help with parts and ideas... been there.....done that
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

> wrote in message
...
> The tubing from the instrument panel to the total energy probe has
> fallen off. The total energy probe on my asw-15b is located half way
> from the cockpit to the rudder. It's mounted from the inside of the
> fuselage. There are no external bolts. The only thing outside is a
> metal hole that curves aft 2.5 inches inside at the bottom of the
> metal sleeve.
>
> If my arm was 9 feet long I could easily reach back and slip the
> tubing on it. Unfortunately my arm is about 3 feet long. Seems like
> if I had a 2X2X8 with some sort of contraption built to hold the
> tubing at the end, I could use that to place it on. I can't think of
> any ideas to have a good firm grip to slide the tubing over the inside
> mounting of the total energy probe.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Anyone know a midget I can fly into Mississippi?

[Papa3]

On Apr 2, 4:13*pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> better you than me!
> I had a Libelle that had the tail cone broken and repaired by a good
> fiberglass glider repair shop....though unfortunately, they knew nothing
> about radios and used TV RF Connectors pinched onto the old coax.....which
> of course were incorrect type and then fell off anyway...I spent a day
> fishing a new coax cable through a Libelle from the panel to the antenna in
> the tail only because I was told it couldn't be done...never missed a single
> tiny hole in the bulkheads with the new leads (Had the old cable been left
> in place I could have spliced to it and dragged the new cable through, it
> however fell loose about 1/2 way in the fuselage....
> Anyway, you have to have patience.....and be creative....the 2x4 idea isn't
> half bad, seriously..I could envision a tool (something smaller than a 2x4)
> that could hold a tube *in a way you could reach back there with and
> reinstall....but, aside from this you could, simply pull out, drill out,
> push out the old TE socket and epoxy in a new and better one, that would be
> pretty quick and easy (I also have sockets and probes for this) and /or
> better yet again, run the tube all the way back to the vertical fin and put
> a proper fin TE probe in...in any case, again glad it's not mine :o) But I
> can help with parts and ideas... been there.....done that
> Tim
> Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com
>
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > The tubing from the instrument panel to the total energy probe has
> > fallen off. * The total energy probe on my asw-15b is located half way
> > from the cockpit to the rudder. *It's mounted from the inside of the
> > fuselage. *There are no external bolts. *The only thing outside is a
> > metal hole that curves aft 2.5 inches inside at the bottom of the
> > metal sleeve.
>
> > If my arm was 9 feet long I could easily reach back and slip the
> > tubing on it. *Unfortunately my arm is about 3 feet long. *Seems like
> > if I had a 2X2X8 with some sort of contraption built to hold the
> > tubing at the end, I could use that to place it on. *I can't think of
> > any ideas to have a good firm grip to slide the tubing over the inside
> > mounting of the total energy probe.
>
> > Any thoughts?
>
> > Anyone know a midget I can fly into Mississippi?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text

You'll never be able to build anything with the dexterity and
precision needed to get a piece of tygon or similar tubing over a
barbed fitting from 9 feet away (okay, maybe shouldn't use "never",
but you get the idea). I helped somebody out with an older Grob
that had the dorsal-mounted TE probe, and the only way we found to do
it was to cut out out the probe very carefully, re-attach the tubing,
then glass it back in. We drilled a 1/8" pilot hole right up against
the flange of the probe, then slipped a hobbyists coping saw blade in
and had at it. If you're very careful, you can minimize the work
area.

There may be a secret to the ASW-15 mounting which I'm not aware of...

[Tim Mara[_2_]]

never say never :o)
but you may never do it "again"
tim

Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com


You'll never be able to build anything with the dexterity and
precision needed to get a piece of tygon or similar tubing over a
barbed fitting from 9 feet away (okay, maybe shouldn't use "never",
but you get the idea). I helped somebody out with an older Grob
that had the dorsal-mounted TE probe, and the only way we found to do
it was to cut out out the probe very carefully, re-attach the tubing,
then glass it back in. We drilled a 1/8" pilot hole right up against
the flange of the probe, then slipped a hobbyists coping saw blade in
and had at it. If you're very careful, you can minimize the work
area.

There may be a secret to the ASW-15 mounting which I'm not aware of...

[Papa3]

On Apr 2, 7:41*pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> never say never :o)
> but you may never do it "again"
> tim
>
> Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com
>
> You'll never be able to build anything with the dexterity and
> precision needed to get a piece of tygon or similar tubing over a
> barbed fitting from 9 feet away (okay, maybe shouldn't use "never",
> but you get the idea). * *I helped somebody out with an older Grob
> that had the dorsal-mounted TE probe, and the only way we found to do
> it was to cut out out the probe very carefully, re-attach the tubing,
> then glass it back in. *We drilled a 1/8" pilot hole right up against
> the flange of the probe, then slipped a hobbyists coping saw blade in
> and had at it. * If you're very careful, you can minimize the work
> area.
>
> There may be a secret to the ASW-15 mounting which I'm not aware of...

I'm building up a long list of jobs I will only attempt once :-)

[Nick Kennedy]

For what its worth... A couple of years ago the Late Great Dick Johnson
wrote a article in Soaring, about installing a TE probe on his
Ventus. It was placed on top of the fuselage not far behind his canopy.
He had all the tests of heights, sizes etc and test results of the the
performance..It looked like it worked quite well. This may be way easier
than the other options...And very easy to troubleshoot leaks.
It seemed to me to be very simple and very functional.
Nick Kennedy

At 23:50 02 April 2009, Papa3 wrote:
>On Apr 2, 7:41=A0pm, "Tim Mara" wrote:
>> never say never :o)
>> but you may never do it "again"
>> tim
>>
>> Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com
>>
>> You'll never be able to build anything with the dexterity and
>> precision needed to get a piece of tygon or similar tubing over a
>> barbed fitting from 9 feet away (okay, maybe shouldn't use "never",
>> but you get the idea). =A0 =A0I helped somebody out with an older Grob
>> that had the dorsal-mounted TE probe, and the only way we found to do
>> it was to cut out out the probe very carefully, re-attach the tubing,
>> then glass it back in. =A0We drilled a 1/8" pilot hole right up
against
>> the flange of the probe, then slipped a hobbyists coping saw blade in
>> and had at it. =A0 If you're very careful, you can minimize the work
>> area.
>>
>> There may be a secret to the ASW-15 mounting which I'm not aware
of...
>
>I'm building up a long list of jobs I will only attempt once :-)
>

[Matt[_2_]]

Come on guys. We can be more creative that this! We are the best at
this sort of thing, right? How about inserting a pin or wire coat
hanger through the TE hole to act as a temporary guide for the tubing
on the inside. You could push a video camera down the fuselage near
the hole so you could see what you were doing on a monitor. How about
a little hair spray inside the end of the Tygon tubing to lube it up
and then lock it in place when it drys? Bicycle shops use this
technique to put grips on handle bars. Instead of a coat hangar
through the TE hole, how about something that could temporarily expand
on the inside and grab the inside of the tygon. Something like a
small molly bolt? Or one of those 4 pronged picker-uppers. Or make
something out of small brass tubing from the hobby shop that flairs
the end when you pull a wire through the middle. Then you could pull
the tubing over the inside nipple from the outside by pulling on the
molly bolt or whatever. How about suction on the outside TE tube to
help grab the tygon when it gets close to the inside nipple with the
long pole you made out of lightweight PVC pipe. Or just get a string
through the TE probe hole, then thread the string all the way down the
Tygon, then just pull into place. You should be able to apply lots of
force by pulling on the string through the TE hole if you tie the
string off on the cockpit side to the end of the tubing. I like this
last idea best, but I bet this list can come up with 10 better ones.

Matt

[Matt[_2_]]

OK, now I can't stop. Details on the string idea

1) Thread a foot or so of string into the TE hole from the outside.
2) Put a wad of duct tape, sticky side out, on the end of a broom
stick and use that to fetch the end of the string from the inside of
the fuselage.
3) use a #11 Exacto knife to gently chamfer the inside of the tubing
so it will start more easily over the inside of the TE tube
4) thread the string through the tubing by taping the far end of the
tubing (non chamfered) to a vacuum cleaner and letting it suck the
string all the way through the tubing.
5) Unhook the vacuum cleaner and tie of the string to that end of the
tubing.
6) Have a helper pull the string back through the TE hole, and apply
some tension as you giggle the tube around from the inside with the
broomstick
7) Inspect your work with the family video cam, then pull the string
back through the tubing from the vacuum end.
8) Celebrate with a frosty beverage of your choice, as you bask in the
knowledge that Glider pilots are more resourceful than any other
species on the planet.

Might be worth a try. At least I know you can accomplish #8 ;-)

[[email protected]]

This may be one of the only practical uses for having a child around -
provided that they can learn the procedure necessary to hook the tube
back up and can remember it or 10-15 minutes.... That last part might
be a stretch.

I wish you luck.

[Chris Reed[_2_]]

These things are so obvious once someone has explained them!

The vacuum cleaner you need for this enterprise is clearly the Rowland
Emmett "Little Dragon Carpet Cleaner" (visible at
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/2472299). Nothing less will do.

BTW, I really do hope this works.

Matt wrote:
> OK, now I can't stop. Details on the string idea
>
> 1) Thread a foot or so of string into the TE hole from the outside.
> 2) Put a wad of duct tape, sticky side out, on the end of a broom
> stick and use that to fetch the end of the string from the inside of
> the fuselage.
> 3) use a #11 Exacto knife to gently chamfer the inside of the tubing
> so it will start more easily over the inside of the TE tube
> 4) thread the string through the tubing by taping the far end of the
> tubing (non chamfered) to a vacuum cleaner and letting it suck the
> string all the way through the tubing.
> 5) Unhook the vacuum cleaner and tie of the string to that end of the
> tubing.
> 6) Have a helper pull the string back through the TE hole, and apply
> some tension as you giggle the tube around from the inside with the
> broomstick
> 7) Inspect your work with the family video cam, then pull the string
> back through the tubing from the vacuum end.
> 8) Celebrate with a frosty beverage of your choice, as you bask in the
> knowledge that Glider pilots are more resourceful than any other
> species on the planet.
>
> Might be worth a try. At least I know you can accomplish #8 ;-)

[Gary Emerson]

Matt wrote:
> OK, now I can't stop. Details on the string idea
>
> 1) Thread a foot or so of string into the TE hole from the outside.
> 2) Put a wad of duct tape, sticky side out, on the end of a broom
> stick and use that to fetch the end of the string from the inside of
> the fuselage.
> 3) use a #11 Exacto knife to gently chamfer the inside of the tubing
> so it will start more easily over the inside of the TE tube
> 4) thread the string through the tubing by taping the far end of the
> tubing (non chamfered) to a vacuum cleaner and letting it suck the
> string all the way through the tubing.
> 5) Unhook the vacuum cleaner and tie of the string to that end of the
> tubing.
> 6) Have a helper pull the string back through the TE hole, and apply
> some tension as you giggle the tube around from the inside with the
> broomstick
> 7) Inspect your work with the family video cam, then pull the string
> back through the tubing from the vacuum end.
> 8) Celebrate with a frosty beverage of your choice, as you bask in the
> knowledge that Glider pilots are more resourceful than any other
> species on the planet.
>
> Might be worth a try. At least I know you can accomplish #8 ;-)


Just before you pull the new TE tube, insert a pair of needle nose
pliers into the end of the tube and pull apart on the grips to stretch
the tubing out. This may take a while, but it will open up, . Once
it's in place it will slowly reform to it's initial shape. And the
hairspray idea will help too.

[ContestID67[_2_]]

I'm on pins and needles awaiting the exciting conclusion to this
soaring drama. Can't wait to hear how it all turns out.

==============

Here is my idea: I had to do something like this to get some ductwork
through a crawlspace. If you can feed something down into the hole
from the outside, you are a long way towards solving this puzzle. I
would push down some stiff wire like fencing wire or some 0.041
aviation safety wire. You might need to start with light string. It
will be an somewhat easy matter to retrieve the string, then wire,
from inside the fuselage (long stick, etc). Now feed the tubing back
along this stiff wire (wire goes inside the tubing of course).
Champhering the inside lip or streaching it with needlenose (warm the
tubing first) is a great idea to get it started on the tubing. I
definately don't like putting any type of lube on the inside of the
tubing as this could get into your vario. Bad news.

Now, how to force the tubing onto the stem? You need something long,
light weight which won't deform. One inexpensive idea is a suspended
ceiling T shapped main runner. Find them at DIY stores. They are 10
feet long, cheap, and fulfill the other requirements. Attach the
tubing to the end of the T runner. I don't think that tape will do.
I am thinking some type of lasso through a hole at the end of the T
runner so that you can grip the tubing strongly and still be able to
release it.

Now, how to apply upward force 9 feet out? Tricky. I think that you
can get something about 4 feet into the fuselage that could be used as
a fulcrum for a lever for the T runner. A box might do. Be sure to
tie a string to it to retrieve it. A second T runner could be used as
a kind of "hammer" to bang on the bottom of the first runner which may
help.

Good luck. Take deep breaths. Find a friend to help. May the force
be with you.

[[email protected]]

Alright folks.....I DID IT!!!

And here's how:

I read each of the above posts, called multiple friends, while
gathering up everyone's idea, then came up with my own plan of attack.

I ordered new tubing, (thanks to Paul Remde). About 30 feet long. I
took a broom stick, duct taped to another broom stick, to make one 11
foot broom stick. The rudder was removed so I could come easily from
an access hole at the aft end of the fuselage between the vertical fin
and rudder. Then I took double sided foam tape and laid that from the
end to about 3 feet back. Then I firmly pressed the tubing onto the
foam tape. I placed flourescent lights inside the fuselage on
extension chords so I could get a good view of what I was doing. By
using the needle nose pliers, I stretched the inside of the tubing by
about 25% greater than normal inside diamator would be. Next I very
very slowly, "jabbed" the broomstick/tubing over the "barb" that
pointed towards the aft end of the fuselage. I was able to get
approxiamately a 1/4 inch of the tubing over the barb on the total
energy mount. The long 3 feet of double sided foam tape gave GREAT
strength from front to back when applying pressure to the tubing, but
from side to side it would easily peel off. Now that the tubing was
barely on, I was able to twist the broom stick and peel off the doube
sided foam tape from the tubing. I withdrew the 11 foot pole and
taped the needle nose pliers on the end of it with the pliers open
about 15 degrees, enough to get around the tubing about midway down
the pliers grips. Finally I pushed the 11 foot pole with the pliers
open and griped the tubing and mashed it over the 1 inch barb on the
total energy probe.

Believe it or not, the whole thing took about 30 mins. And about 1
week to contemplate a plan of attack.

Now I've got new tubing throughout the entire glider. It's ready to
rock!

See you at cloudbase!!!

Spring is finally here :^)
Scott