Backlit panel

[cavelamb[_2_]]

I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel overlay.
The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic
overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
engraving the opaque layer.

On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain of rice
(well duh!) light bulbs.

The effect was quite stunning.

So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay?


Thanks,

Richard

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel overlay.
> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic
> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
> engraving the opaque layer.
>
> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain of
> rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>
> The effect was quite stunning.
>
> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
>

I use white plexiglass. Paint the face and edges black and have it
engraved or engrave it then use a roller to paint the face and sides.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
> cavelamb wrote:
>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel overlay.
>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic
>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>
>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain of
>> rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>
>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>
>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Richard
>>
>
> I use white plexiglass. Paint the face and edges black and have it
> engraved or engrave it then use a roller to paint the face and sides.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Ok, so other than good intentions and great karma, what kept the paint
out of the lettering?

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>> cavelamb wrote:
>>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
>>> overlay.
>>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic
>>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>>
>>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain
>>> of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>>
>>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>>
>>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>
>> I use white plexiglass. Paint the face and edges black and have it
>> engraved or engrave it then use a roller to paint the face and sides.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>
> Ok, so other than good intentions and great karma, what kept the paint
> out of the lettering?

If you paint it before engraving you won't have that problem. Using a
roller to paint after you engrave means very little, if any paint gets
into the lettering. I used a rubber roller like engravers use. I prefer
the paint first method, but sometimes you need to repaint after adding
engraving or damaged paint.

I might mention painting the back of the plastic prevents light leaks.

For the truly patient/crazy you can route grooves in the back for
wiring. The number of lights required depends on the size of the panel
and embedded wiring means you only have 2 wires hanging out the back.

Military/commercial lighted panels have a little coaxial connector on
the back that presses into a socket when you mount the panel. If you
ever see one of this type of panel you'll notice a little plus sign on
the front. The connector is directly behind it. Should lighting fail you
can press there to see if the connection is bad. Older panels had light
assemblies that screwed through the panel from the front.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
> cavelamb wrote:
>> Dan wrote:
>>> cavelamb wrote:
>>>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
>>>> overlay.
>>>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
>>>> plastic
>>>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>>>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>>>
>>>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain
>>>> of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>>>
>>>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>>>
>>>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
>>>> overlay?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>
>>> I use white plexiglass. Paint the face and edges black and have it
>>> engraved or engrave it then use a roller to paint the face and sides.
>>>
>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>>
>> Ok, so other than good intentions and great karma, what kept the paint
>> out of the lettering?
>
> If you paint it before engraving you won't have that problem. Using a
> roller to paint after you engrave means very little, if any paint gets
> into the lettering. I used a rubber roller like engravers use. I prefer
> the paint first method, but sometimes you need to repaint after adding
> engraving or damaged paint.
>
> I might mention painting the back of the plastic prevents light leaks.
>
> For the truly patient/crazy you can route grooves in the back for
> wiring. The number of lights required depends on the size of the panel
> and embedded wiring means you only have 2 wires hanging out the back.
>
> Military/commercial lighted panels have a little coaxial connector on
> the back that presses into a socket when you mount the panel. If you
> ever see one of this type of panel you'll notice a little plus sign on
> the front. The connector is directly behind it. Should lighting fail you
> can press there to see if the connection is bad. Older panels had light
> assemblies that screwed through the panel from the front.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Thanks, Dan.
That's a possibility.

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
cavelamb > wrote:

> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel overlay.
> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic
> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
> engraving the opaque layer.
>
> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain of rice
> (well duh!) light bulbs.
>
> The effect was quite stunning.
>
> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard

If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving
operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired
color.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>> cavelamb wrote:
>>> Dan wrote:
>>>> cavelamb wrote:
>>>>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
>>>>> overlay.
>>>>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
>>>>> plastic
>>>>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>>>>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain
>>>>> of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>>>>
>>>>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>>>>
>>>>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
>>>>> overlay?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I use white plexiglass. Paint the face and edges black and have
>>>> it engraved or engrave it then use a roller to paint the face and
>>>> sides.
>>>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, so other than good intentions and great karma, what kept the paint
>>> out of the lettering?
>>
>> If you paint it before engraving you won't have that problem. Using
>> a roller to paint after you engrave means very little, if any paint
>> gets into the lettering. I used a rubber roller like engravers use. I
>> prefer the paint first method, but sometimes you need to repaint after
>> adding engraving or damaged paint.
>>
>> I might mention painting the back of the plastic prevents light leaks.
>>
>> For the truly patient/crazy you can route grooves in the back for
>> wiring. The number of lights required depends on the size of the panel
>> and embedded wiring means you only have 2 wires hanging out the back.
>>
>> Military/commercial lighted panels have a little coaxial connector
>> on the back that presses into a socket when you mount the panel. If
>> you ever see one of this type of panel you'll notice a little plus
>> sign on the front. The connector is directly behind it. Should
>> lighting fail you can press there to see if the connection is bad.
>> Older panels had light assemblies that screwed through the panel from
>> the front.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Thanks, Dan.
> That's a possibility.

The comm shops in USAF units was authorized an engraver for intercom
boxes face plates since the boxes had a bunch of pull-on volume controls
and had to be re-labeled for the specific location on the aircraft or
specific aircraft. Guess what? They just swapped out face plates when
replacing the boxes.

Another option you might try is the black on white plastic
trophy/engraving shops use for name plates. Granted it's thinner than
the plates we used which were 3/8" thick or so. I suppose an annunciator
light or illuminated tail number plate can be made if you make a bezel
to hold it with the lamps behind.

You might also consider LED instead of incandescent.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dan[_12_]]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> cavelamb > wrote:
>
>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel overlay.
>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic
>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>
>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain of rice
>> (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>
>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>
>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Richard
>
> If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
> grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
> bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
> the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving
> operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired
> color.
>

White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than
clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install both
red and white LED so you can either make illumination switchable or you
can change you mind later with minimum wiring problems.

For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special ops
with NVG.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
> cavelamb wrote:
>> Dan wrote:
>>> cavelamb wrote:
>>>> Dan wrote:
>>>>> cavelamb wrote:
>>>>>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
>>>>>> overlay.
>>>>>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
>>>>>> plastic
>>>>>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>>>>>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for
>>>>>> grain of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
>>>>>> overlay?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I use white plexiglass. Paint the face and edges black and have
>>>>> it engraved or engrave it then use a roller to paint the face and
>>>>> sides.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok, so other than good intentions and great karma, what kept the paint
>>>> out of the lettering?
>>>
>>> If you paint it before engraving you won't have that problem. Using
>>> a roller to paint after you engrave means very little, if any paint
>>> gets into the lettering. I used a rubber roller like engravers use. I
>>> prefer the paint first method, but sometimes you need to repaint
>>> after adding engraving or damaged paint.
>>>
>>> I might mention painting the back of the plastic prevents light leaks.
>>>
>>> For the truly patient/crazy you can route grooves in the back for
>>> wiring. The number of lights required depends on the size of the
>>> panel and embedded wiring means you only have 2 wires hanging out the
>>> back.
>>>
>>> Military/commercial lighted panels have a little coaxial connector
>>> on the back that presses into a socket when you mount the panel. If
>>> you ever see one of this type of panel you'll notice a little plus
>>> sign on the front. The connector is directly behind it. Should
>>> lighting fail you can press there to see if the connection is bad.
>>> Older panels had light assemblies that screwed through the panel from
>>> the front.
>>>
>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>> Thanks, Dan.
>> That's a possibility.
>
> The comm shops in USAF units was authorized an engraver for intercom
> boxes face plates since the boxes had a bunch of pull-on volume controls
> and had to be re-labeled for the specific location on the aircraft or
> specific aircraft. Guess what? They just swapped out face plates when
> replacing the boxes.
>
> Another option you might try is the black on white plastic
> trophy/engraving shops use for name plates. Granted it's thinner than
> the plates we used which were 3/8" thick or so. I suppose an annunciator
> light or illuminated tail number plate can be made if you make a bezel
> to hold it with the lamps behind.
>
> You might also consider LED instead of incandescent.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Yeah, I remember fondly the side panels with all the cool military toys.
Boy, those were the days.

LED already considered. And approved, of course!

One design flaw so far is isolating some areas so that annunciators
don't bleed over into the rest of the panel.

I think that problem can be addressed by milling out the back plastic
but leaving an overlay but obviously won't work with a painted panel.

That's kinda why I was thinking of a thin plastic overlay.

The back-light panel can then be pieced together as needed but still
present a smooth unbroken surface.

I'm guessing something .008 to .016 thick(?) for readability of the
engraved parts.

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>> In article >,
>> cavelamb > wrote:
>>
>>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
>>> overlay.
>>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a plastic
>>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>>
>>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain
>>> of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>>
>>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>>
>>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the overlay?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Richard
>>
>> If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
>> grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
>> bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
>> the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the
>> cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or
>> painted in your desired color.
>>
>
> White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than
> clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install both
> red and white LED so you can either make illumination switchable or you
> can change you mind later with minimum wiring problems.
>
> For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special ops
> with NVG.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>

Kool! LOL.

But the red/white back-light idea already crossed my mind.
I hadn't thought of the special ops angle tho.

I like the bevels suggestion too.
There are a couple of places that that might work real well.

This is actually the electrical control panel on my sailboat,
so weight is not quite as critical.

But being able to read it at night IS.


Richard

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>> cavelamb wrote:
>>> Dan wrote:
>>>> cavelamb wrote:
>>>>> Dan wrote:
>>>>>> cavelamb wrote:
>>>>>>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
>>>>>>> overlay.
>>>>>>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
>>>>>>> plastic
>>>>>>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>>>>>>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for
>>>>>>> grain of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
>>>>>>> overlay?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I use white plexiglass. Paint the face and edges black and have
>>>>>> it engraved or engrave it then use a roller to paint the face and
>>>>>> sides.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, so other than good intentions and great karma, what kept the paint
>>>>> out of the lettering?
>>>>
>>>> If you paint it before engraving you won't have that problem.
>>>> Using a roller to paint after you engrave means very little, if any
>>>> paint gets into the lettering. I used a rubber roller like engravers
>>>> use. I prefer the paint first method, but sometimes you need to
>>>> repaint after adding engraving or damaged paint.
>>>>
>>>> I might mention painting the back of the plastic prevents light
>>>> leaks.
>>>>
>>>> For the truly patient/crazy you can route grooves in the back for
>>>> wiring. The number of lights required depends on the size of the
>>>> panel and embedded wiring means you only have 2 wires hanging out
>>>> the back.
>>>>
>>>> Military/commercial lighted panels have a little coaxial connector
>>>> on the back that presses into a socket when you mount the panel. If
>>>> you ever see one of this type of panel you'll notice a little plus
>>>> sign on the front. The connector is directly behind it. Should
>>>> lighting fail you can press there to see if the connection is bad.
>>>> Older panels had light assemblies that screwed through the panel
>>>> from the front.
>>>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>> Thanks, Dan.
>>> That's a possibility.
>>
>> The comm shops in USAF units was authorized an engraver for
>> intercom boxes face plates since the boxes had a bunch of pull-on
>> volume controls and had to be re-labeled for the specific location on
>> the aircraft or specific aircraft. Guess what? They just swapped out
>> face plates when replacing the boxes.
>>
>> Another option you might try is the black on white plastic
>> trophy/engraving shops use for name plates. Granted it's thinner than
>> the plates we used which were 3/8" thick or so. I suppose an
>> annunciator light or illuminated tail number plate can be made if you
>> make a bezel to hold it with the lamps behind.
>>
>> You might also consider LED instead of incandescent.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Yeah, I remember fondly the side panels with all the cool military toys.
> Boy, those were the days.
>
> LED already considered. And approved, of course!
>
> One design flaw so far is isolating some areas so that annunciators
> don't bleed over into the rest of the panel.
>
> I think that problem can be addressed by milling out the back plastic
> but leaving an overlay but obviously won't work with a painted panel.
>
> That's kinda why I was thinking of a thin plastic overlay.
>
> The back-light panel can then be pieced together as needed but still
> present a smooth unbroken surface.
>
> I'm guessing something .008 to .016 thick(?) for readability of the
> engraved parts.
>

With contrast the thickness is irrelevant in daylight. Think of name
tags and placards you have seen engraved on plastic. The clarity of the
engraving at night is more a function of line width and lettering size.

As far as annunciators I have taken aluminum, bakelite and plastic
blocks roughly 1/4" thicker than is needed for whatever lamp or LED
requires. Picture a square or rectangle a little bigger than the
annunciator with the center milled out to just under the size of the
legend. This allows the light to illuminate the back of the legend. I
then rabbit out inside a little deeper than the thickness of the legend
which can be glued in place. You can also make a block of annunciators
by this method using a bigger block of plastic with several holes milled
out.

For caution lights I have used red or orange plexiglass. I have the
legend engraved then paint in the letters in black. This is easier than
it sounds. I use model airplane paint, paint in the letters then
carefully wipe the excess off the face. For best results I use a thin
sheet of translucent plastic behind the legend. For the life of me I
can't recall what the plastic sheet is called, but I have bought it in
craft and office supply stores.

I have found the local glass supply here will only order coloured
plexiglass in full 4 x 8 foot sheets so I buy smaller sizes from e-bay.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> cavelamb > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
>>>> overlay.
>>>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
>>>> plastic
>>>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>>>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>>>
>>>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain
>>>> of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>>>
>>>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>>>
>>>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
>>>> overlay?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>
>>> If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
>>> grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
>>> bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
>>> the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the
>>> cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or
>>> painted in your desired color.
>>>
>>
>> White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than
>> clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install both
>> red and white LED so you can either make illumination switchable or
>> you can change you mind later with minimum wiring problems.
>>
>> For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special
>> ops with NVG.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>
> Kool! LOL.
>
> But the red/white back-light idea already crossed my mind.
> I hadn't thought of the special ops angle tho.

I spent 14 years in special ops. When everything started going NVG
compatible things got strange. Interiors were painted flat black and
lighting included blue-green flood lamps, C-4 lights and stuff like that
there.

Some of the assorted lamps in earlier tests were so bright in NVG
the area around them would be washed out and unreadable.

As for flat black interiors let me tell you sitting in the sun in
Florida things got HOT.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
> cavelamb wrote:
>> Dan wrote:
>>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>>> In article >,
>>>> cavelamb > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
>>>>> overlay.
>>>>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
>>>>> plastic
>>>>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>>>>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain
>>>>> of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>>>>
>>>>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>>>>
>>>>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
>>>>> overlay?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>> If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
>>>> grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
>>>> bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides
>>>> of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the
>>>> cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or
>>>> painted in your desired color.
>>>>
>>>
>>> White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than
>>> clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install both
>>> red and white LED so you can either make illumination switchable or
>>> you can change you mind later with minimum wiring problems.
>>>
>>> For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special
>>> ops with NVG.
>>>
>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>
>> Kool! LOL.
>>
>> But the red/white back-light idea already crossed my mind.
>> I hadn't thought of the special ops angle tho.
>
> I spent 14 years in special ops. When everything started going NVG
> compatible things got strange. Interiors were painted flat black and
> lighting included blue-green flood lamps, C-4 lights and stuff like that
> there.
>
> Some of the assorted lamps in earlier tests were so bright in NVG the
> area around them would be washed out and unreadable.
>
> As for flat black interiors let me tell you sitting in the sun in
> Florida things got HOT.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>


Well, don gone it, you are supposed to be sitting there at night!

Hiding in flat black in daytime seems a little strange...
:)

Richard

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>> cavelamb wrote:
>>> Dan wrote:
>>>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> cavelamb > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
>>>>>> overlay.
>>>>>> The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
>>>>>> plastic
>>>>>> overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
>>>>>> engraving the opaque layer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for
>>>>>> grain of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The effect was quite stunning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
>>>>>> overlay?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>
>>>>> If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
>>>>> grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an
>>>>> inverted bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting
>>>>> both sides of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before
>>>>> the cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit
>>>>> or painted in your desired color.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than
>>>> clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install
>>>> both red and white LED so you can either make illumination
>>>> switchable or you can change you mind later with minimum wiring
>>>> problems.
>>>>
>>>> For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special
>>>> ops with NVG.
>>>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>
>>>
>>> Kool! LOL.
>>>
>>> But the red/white back-light idea already crossed my mind.
>>> I hadn't thought of the special ops angle tho.
>>
>> I spent 14 years in special ops. When everything started going NVG
>> compatible things got strange. Interiors were painted flat black and
>> lighting included blue-green flood lamps, C-4 lights and stuff like
>> that there.
>>
>> Some of the assorted lamps in earlier tests were so bright in NVG
>> the area around them would be washed out and unreadable.
>>
>> As for flat black interiors let me tell you sitting in the sun in
>> Florida things got HOT.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>
>
> Well, don gone it, you are supposed to be sitting there at night!
>
> Hiding in flat black in daytime seems a little strange...
> :)
>
> Richard

They flew at night and got repaired during daytime. They also flew
day missions.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[flash]

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
news:o_r_fairbairn-
> If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
> grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
> bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
> the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving
> operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired
> color.
>
> --



Orval is on the right track.

But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it white for
better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides of it black, to
stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the edges,, depending on the
effect yu require/desire. Engrave through the top black /white layer into
clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi for this, but you will rquire so much
more light (numbers of lights, at many places) to achieve the illumination
and readability at night that you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a
great deal of the light - it just isn't as translucent as it seems,
especially being edge-lighted..

As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that stuff is
opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material from various
manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot.

Flash

[Dan[_12_]]

Flash wrote:
> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
> news:o_r_fairbairn-
>> If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
>> grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
>> bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
>> the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving
>> operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired
>> color.
>>
>> --
>
>
>
> Orval is on the right track.
>
> But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it white for
> better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides of it black, to
> stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the edges,, depending on the
> effect yu require/desire. Engrave through the top black /white layer into
> clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi for this, but you will rquire so much
> more light (numbers of lights, at many places) to achieve the illumination
> and readability at night that you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a
> great deal of the light - it just isn't as translucent as it seems,
> especially being edge-lighted..
>
> As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that stuff is
> opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material from various
> manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot.
>
> Flash
>
>

Maybe I have just had good luck with "name tag" material. As for
white plexiglass I never suggested opaque white although there are
varying degrees of translucence. Bear in mind any engraved plate used
for switches or similar don't have to be all that bright. It's all
relative to ambient lighting. An exception might be a panel that is
normally in shadow in daylight ops.

As for engraved plates there is one more idea. It's something I have
never tried myself. I have disassembled internally illuminated military
engine and pressure indicators. Many of them had 2 or more 328 sized
lamps. The one inch round gauges had 2 lamps and the 2 inch round
engine/fuel etc had 2 or 3. What they had in common was a disc thick
enough to accept the lamp, the proper number of holes equally spaced ina
circle and a centre hole for the pointer shaft. The instrument face was
constructed one of two ways; either the face was silk screened directly
onto the aforementioned disc or another, thinner disc.

The round indicator bodies are brass so if you want to see what I
mean see if you can find an inoperative one on which to perform an
autopsy. I used to get the 1 inch ones with burned out bulbs, but
working movements, just for the synchro inside.

Your suggestion for using clear plexiglass might work with silk
screened faces. I have never tried it since the plates I have made were
all one offs or so.

I have never used plexiglass instrument illumination so I have
nothing to say in the matter. A habit I picked up in the military is a
preference for internally illuminated indicators when possible. The
major drawback to that is the connectors for military instruments such
as clocks, g-meters and pitot-static instruments costs around $80.

I suggest anyone wanting to try anything along these lines should
obtain various plastics in various colours and thicknesses and haul off
and experiment.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
> Flash wrote:
>> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
>> news:o_r_fairbairn-
>>> If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
>>> grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
>>> bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
>>> the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving
>>> operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired
>>> color.
>>>
>>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Orval is on the right track.
>>
>> But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it white
>> for better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides of it
>> black, to stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the edges,,
>> depending on the effect yu require/desire. Engrave through the top
>> black /white layer into clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi for
>> this, but you will rquire so much more light (numbers of lights, at
>> many places) to achieve the illumination and readability at night that
>> you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a great deal of the light - it
>> just isn't as translucent as it seems, especially being edge-lighted..
>>
>> As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that
>> stuff is opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material from
>> various manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot.
>>
>> Flash
>>
>
> Maybe I have just had good luck with "name tag" material. As for white
> plexiglass I never suggested opaque white although there are varying
> degrees of translucence. Bear in mind any engraved plate used for
> switches or similar don't have to be all that bright. It's all relative
> to ambient lighting. An exception might be a panel that is normally in
> shadow in daylight ops.
>
> As for engraved plates there is one more idea. It's something I have
> never tried myself. I have disassembled internally illuminated military
> engine and pressure indicators. Many of them had 2 or more 328 sized
> lamps. The one inch round gauges had 2 lamps and the 2 inch round
> engine/fuel etc had 2 or 3. What they had in common was a disc thick
> enough to accept the lamp, the proper number of holes equally spaced ina
> circle and a centre hole for the pointer shaft. The instrument face was
> constructed one of two ways; either the face was silk screened directly
> onto the aforementioned disc or another, thinner disc.
>
> The round indicator bodies are brass so if you want to see what I mean
> see if you can find an inoperative one on which to perform an autopsy. I
> used to get the 1 inch ones with burned out bulbs, but working
> movements, just for the synchro inside.
>
> Your suggestion for using clear plexiglass might work with silk
> screened faces. I have never tried it since the plates I have made were
> all one offs or so.
>
> I have never used plexiglass instrument illumination so I have nothing
> to say in the matter. A habit I picked up in the military is a
> preference for internally illuminated indicators when possible. The
> major drawback to that is the connectors for military instruments such
> as clocks, g-meters and pitot-static instruments costs around $80.
>
> I suggest anyone wanting to try anything along these lines should
> obtain various plastics in various colours and thicknesses and haul off
> and experiment.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a go.

I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I
had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a stack of
back-lit blocks placed through the panel.

As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some
translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some
small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with them.

Thanks,


Richard

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>> Flash wrote:
>>> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
>>> news:o_r_fairbairn-
>>>> If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
>>>> grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
>>>> bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
>>>> the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the
>>>> cutting/engraving
>>>> operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired
>>>> color.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Orval is on the right track.
>>>
>>> But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it
>>> white for better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides
>>> of it black, to stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the
>>> edges,, depending on the effect yu require/desire. Engrave through
>>> the top black /white layer into clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi
>>> for this, but you will rquire so much more light (numbers of lights,
>>> at many places) to achieve the illumination and readability at night
>>> that you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a great deal of the
>>> light - it just isn't as translucent as it seems, especially being
>>> edge-lighted..
>>>
>>> As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that
>>> stuff is opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material
>>> from various manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot.
>>>
>>> Flash
>>>
>>
>> Maybe I have just had good luck with "name tag" material. As for
>> white plexiglass I never suggested opaque white although there are
>> varying degrees of translucence. Bear in mind any engraved plate used
>> for switches or similar don't have to be all that bright. It's all
>> relative to ambient lighting. An exception might be a panel that is
>> normally in shadow in daylight ops.
>>
>> As for engraved plates there is one more idea. It's something I have
>> never tried myself. I have disassembled internally illuminated
>> military engine and pressure indicators. Many of them had 2 or more
>> 328 sized lamps. The one inch round gauges had 2 lamps and the 2 inch
>> round engine/fuel etc had 2 or 3. What they had in common was a disc
>> thick enough to accept the lamp, the proper number of holes equally
>> spaced ina circle and a centre hole for the pointer shaft. The
>> instrument face was constructed one of two ways; either the face was
>> silk screened directly onto the aforementioned disc or another,
>> thinner disc.
>>
>> The round indicator bodies are brass so if you want to see what I
>> mean see if you can find an inoperative one on which to perform an
>> autopsy. I used to get the 1 inch ones with burned out bulbs, but
>> working movements, just for the synchro inside.
>>
>> Your suggestion for using clear plexiglass might work with silk
>> screened faces. I have never tried it since the plates I have made
>> were all one offs or so.
>>
>> I have never used plexiglass instrument illumination so I have
>> nothing to say in the matter. A habit I picked up in the military is a
>> preference for internally illuminated indicators when possible. The
>> major drawback to that is the connectors for military instruments such
>> as clocks, g-meters and pitot-static instruments costs around $80.
>>
>> I suggest anyone wanting to try anything along these lines should
>> obtain various plastics in various colours and thicknesses and haul
>> off and experiment.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>
> Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a
> go.
>
> I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I
> had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a
> stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel.
>
> As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing
> some translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get
> some
> small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting
> with them.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Richard

Good luck. Let us know what happens.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dan D[_2_]]

The lexan won't machine real well. Look for Plexiglas (acrylic) bits and sheet...

"cavelamb" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a go.
>
> I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I
> had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a stack of
> back-lit blocks placed through the panel.
>
> As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some
> translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some
> small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with them.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Richard

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan D wrote:
> The lexan won't machine real well. Look for Plexiglas (acrylic) bits and
> sheet...
>
> "cavelamb" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is
>> a go.
>>
>> I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical
>> as I
>> had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with
>> a stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel.
>>
>> As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing
>> some translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll
>> get some
>> small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting
>> with them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Richard

oops...

Ok, thanks

[flash]

"cavelamb" > wrote in message
...
> Dan wrote:
>> Flash wrote:
>>> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
>>> news:o_r_fairbairn-
>>>> If you wish to be more up-to-date,

>
> Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a
> go.
>
> I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I
> had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a
> stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel.
>
> As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some
> translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some
> small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with
> them.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Richard

Good fer ya'. Keep us posted and a picture or two wouldn't be unwelcome.
Make that a flash picture. We can enjoy the sail with you.

Flash
And today, Richard, that is a bright flash of envy

I have an entire "navy" in the back-yard (the largest powered vessel is
15 feet in length. the next is 14, and the dinghy is a 10foor jon-boat)
because, sometimes ya just gotta fish certain waters in a certain way.

[Dan[_12_]]

Flash wrote:
> "cavelamb" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dan wrote:
>>> Flash wrote:
>>>> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
>>>> news:o_r_fairbairn-
>>>>> If you wish to be more up-to-date,
>
>> Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a
>> go.
>>
>> I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I
>> had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a
>> stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel.
>>
>> As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some
>> translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some
>> small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with
>> them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Richard
>
> Good fer ya'. Keep us posted and a picture or two wouldn't be unwelcome.
> Make that a flash picture. We can enjoy the sail with you.
>
> Flash
> And today, Richard, that is a bright flash of envy
>
> I have an entire "navy" in the back-yard (the largest powered vessel is
> 15 feet in length. the next is 14, and the dinghy is a 10foor jon-boat)
> because, sometimes ya just gotta fish certain waters in a certain way.
>
>
Fishing with hand grenades is easiest.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Flash wrote:
> "cavelamb" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dan wrote:
>>> Flash wrote:
>>>> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
>>>> news:o_r_fairbairn-
>>>>> If you wish to be more up-to-date,
>
>> Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a
>> go.
>>
>> I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I
>> had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a
>> stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel.
>>
>> As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some
>> translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some
>> small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with
>> them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Richard
>
> Good fer ya'. Keep us posted and a picture or two wouldn't be unwelcome.
> Make that a flash picture. We can enjoy the sail with you.
>
> Flash
> And today, Richard, that is a bright flash of envy
>
> I have an entire "navy" in the back-yard (the largest powered vessel is
> 15 feet in length. the next is 14, and the dinghy is a 10foor jon-boat)
> because, sometimes ya just gotta fish certain waters in a certain way.
>
>

First one up, just for you, Flash :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNh4mMPMNRw&feature=channel_page

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
>
> Fishing with hand grenades is easiest.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Ehh? WHADJA SAY???

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>>
>> Fishing with hand grenades is easiest.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>
> Ehh? WHADJA SAY???

Too noisy for you?

Hand grenades are also excellent for such things as keeping racoons
out of the trash.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
> cavelamb wrote:
>> Dan wrote:
>>>
>>> Fishing with hand grenades is easiest.
>>>
>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>>
>> Ehh? WHADJA SAY???
>
> Too noisy for you?
>
> Hand grenades are also excellent for such things as keeping racoons
> out of the trash.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


LOL! I'll bet they do a FINE job at that...

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>> cavelamb wrote:
>>> Dan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Fishing with hand grenades is easiest.
>>>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>>
>>> Ehh? WHADJA SAY???
>>
>> Too noisy for you?
>>
>> Hand grenades are also excellent for such things as keeping racoons
>> out of the trash.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>
> LOL! I'll bet they do a FINE job at that...

Have a problem with strangers in your swimming pool? Toss in a hand
grenade.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dan D[_2_]]

Do you think they would work well for moles and gophers?



"Dan" > wrote in message ...
> cavelamb wrote:
>> Dan wrote:
>>> cavelamb wrote:
>>>> Dan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Fishing with hand grenades is easiest.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ehh? WHADJA SAY???
>>>
>>> Too noisy for you?
>>>
>>> Hand grenades are also excellent for such things as keeping racoons
>>> out of the trash.
>>>
>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>>
>> LOL! I'll bet they do a FINE job at that...
>
> Have a problem with strangers in your swimming pool? Toss in a hand
> grenade.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Jim Logajan]

"Dan D" > wrote:
> Do you think they would work well for moles and gophers?

This is how they handle squirrels in Spokane:

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_detonating_squirrels.html

No reason why it shouldn't work on any ground burrowing animal....

>
>
>
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> cavelamb wrote:
>>> Dan wrote:
>>>> cavelamb wrote:
>>>>> Dan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fishing with hand grenades is easiest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ehh? WHADJA SAY???
>>>>
>>>> Too noisy for you?
>>>>
>>>> Hand grenades are also excellent for such things as keeping
>>>> racoons
>>>> out of the trash.
>>>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL! I'll bet they do a FINE job at that...
>>
>> Have a problem with strangers in your swimming pool? Toss in a hand
>> grenade.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:07:45 -0400, "Dan D"
> wrote:

>Do you think they would work well for moles and gophers?

Bet they'd light up a panel pretty good too!!!
>
>
>
>"Dan" > wrote in message ...
>> cavelamb wrote:
>>> Dan wrote:
>>>> cavelamb wrote:
>>>>> Dan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fishing with hand grenades is easiest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ehh? WHADJA SAY???
>>>>
>>>> Too noisy for you?
>>>>
>>>> Hand grenades are also excellent for such things as keeping racoons
>>>> out of the trash.
>>>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL! I'll bet they do a FINE job at that...
>>
>> Have a problem with strangers in your swimming pool? Toss in a hand
>> grenade.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dan[_12_]]

Jim Logajan wrote:
> "Dan D" > wrote:
>> Do you think they would work well for moles and gophers?
>
> This is how they handle squirrels in Spokane:
>
> http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_detonating_squirrels.html
>
> No reason why it shouldn't work on any ground burrowing animal....
>
http://www.m-aparts.com/products/4260711851_sniper.jpg

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

I was looking a the stuff in my Blazer this evening.
It looks nice with all the legends and markings lit.

But it's not engraved.

In fact, it is probably silk screened (Doh!)

Wouldn't that be a hoot...

[Jim Logajan]

Dan > wrote:
> Jim Logajan wrote:
>> "Dan D" > wrote:
>>> Do you think they would work well for moles and gophers?
>>
>> This is how they handle squirrels in Spokane:
>>
>> http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_detonating_squirrels.html
>>
>> No reason why it shouldn't work on any ground burrowing animal....
>>
> http://www.m-aparts.com/products/4260711851_sniper.jpg

Those are my kind of action heroes!

>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
"Dan D" > wrote:

> Do you think they would work well for moles and gophers?
>

Something better: Get your oxy/aceteleyne , fill the hole with acetylene
gas, add some oxygen, then light the torch and put it down the hole. It
make a fine fuel/air explosive!

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> "Dan D" > wrote:
>
>> Do you think they would work well for moles and gophers?
>>
>
> Something better: Get your oxy/aceteleyne , fill the hole with acetylene
> gas, add some oxygen, then light the torch and put it down the hole. It
> make a fine fuel/air explosive!
>


More likely blow some dirt in your face.
Those holes aren't very big - nor deep.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"cavelamb" > wrote >
> More likely blow some dirt in your face.
> Those holes aren't very big - nor deep.


Maybe your Texas moles are really not all that big, after all/

Here in NC, the tunnels go on for dozens of yards. I think the idea shows a
touch of genius. I gotta try it!

It would make me feel better, at least! <ggg>
--
Jim in NC

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Morgans wrote:
>
> "cavelamb" > wrote >
>> More likely blow some dirt in your face.
>> Those holes aren't very big - nor deep.
>
>
> Maybe your Texas moles are really not all that big, after all/
>
> Here in NC, the tunnels go on for dozens of yards. I think the idea
> shows a touch of genius. I gotta try it!
>
> It would make me feel better, at least! <ggg>

I'd certainly agree with the latter!

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> Morgans wrote:
>>
>> "cavelamb" > wrote >
>>> More likely blow some dirt in your face.
>>> Those holes aren't very big - nor deep.
>>
>>
>> Maybe your Texas moles are really not all that big, after all/
>>
>> Here in NC, the tunnels go on for dozens of yards. I think the idea
>> shows a touch of genius. I gotta try it!
>>
>> It would make me feel better, at least! <ggg>
>
> I'd certainly agree with the latter!

Try automobile exhaust.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
> cavelamb wrote:
>> Morgans wrote:
>>>
>>> "cavelamb" > wrote >
>>>> More likely blow some dirt in your face.
>>>> Those holes aren't very big - nor deep.
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe your Texas moles are really not all that big, after all/
>>>
>>> Here in NC, the tunnels go on for dozens of yards. I think the idea
>>> shows a touch of genius. I gotta try it!
>>>
>>> It would make me feel better, at least! <ggg>
>>
>> I'd certainly agree with the latter!
>
> Try automobile exhaust.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Naw, that gives me a head ache!

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> cavelamb wrote:
>> Morgans wrote:
>>>
>>> "cavelamb" > wrote >
>>>> More likely blow some dirt in your face.
>>>> Those holes aren't very big - nor deep.
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe your Texas moles are really not all that big, after all/
>>>
>>> Here in NC, the tunnels go on for dozens of yards. I think the idea shows a
>>> touch of genius. I gotta try it!
>>>
>>> It would make me feel better, at least! <ggg>
>>
>> I'd certainly agree with the latter!
>
> Try automobile exhaust.
>
The idea is not to rid your lawn of ground moles, but rather to make a big boom,
and to see your turf peeling up into the air..

If killing the moles was the intent, you could do something boring like put down
grub killer on your lawn. Yawn! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[jerry wass]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> "Dan D" > wrote:
>
>> Do you think they would work well for moles and gophers?
>>
>
> Something better: Get your oxy/aceteleyne , fill the hole with acetylene
> gas, add some oxygen, then light the torch and put it down the hole. It
> make a fine fuel/air explosive!
>
Have you priced acetylene lately? Propane much cheaper.

On the other hand---to get the correct mixture--fire up the torch with a
large flame of correct proportions---snuff it out on a pc of wood
without changing adjustment knobs--stick it in the tunnel--let run a
while-- then ignite.

[Brian Whatcott]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> "Dan D" > wrote:
>
>> Do you think they would work well for moles and gophers?
>>
>
> Something better: Get your oxy/aceteleyne , fill the hole with acetylene
> gas, add some oxygen, then light the torch and put it down the hole. It
> make a fine fuel/air explosive!
>


Though I enjoyed a recent newsgroup thread describing the use of
oxy-acetylene to fill a trash bag for a bang or launching a dead rat via
an iron pipe with the same propellant, I was interested to hear that
this was also an easy way to go deaf for several days. The bang (it
appears) can be overwhelming!!

Brian W

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

Jerry Wass schreef:
> On the other hand---to get the correct mixture--fire up the torch with a
> large flame of correct proportions---snuff it out on a pc of wood
> without changing adjustment knobs--stick it in the tunnel--let run a
> while-- then ignite.

Nice idea, but unworkable in this deep****asshole of a place. I
contacted several resellers, they all told me pc's are made of (cheapo)
soft steel, a bit of silicon and lots of plastic. No pc's of wood
available down here, I really must consider moving into them US of A
where the market is so much broader.

[Peter Dohm]

"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
.. .
> Dan > wrote:
>> Jim Logajan wrote:
>>> "Dan D" > wrote:
>>>> Do you think they would work well for moles and gophers?
>>>
>>> This is how they handle squirrels in Spokane:
>>>
>>> http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_detonating_squirrels.html
>>>
>>> No reason why it shouldn't work on any ground burrowing animal....
>>>
>> http://www.m-aparts.com/products/4260711851_sniper.jpg
>
> Those are my kind of action heroes!
>
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
Toooo Funny!

[jerry wass]

jan olieslagers wrote:
> Jerry Wass schreef:
>> On the other hand---to get the correct mixture--fire up the torch with
>> a large flame of correct proportions---snuff it out on a pc of wood
>> without changing adjustment knobs--stick it in the tunnel--let run a
>> while-- then ignite.
>
> Nice idea, but unworkable in this deep****asshole of a place. I
> contacted several resellers, they all told me pc's are made of (cheapo)
> soft steel, a bit of silicon and lots of plastic. No pc's of wood
> available down here, I really must consider moving into them US of A
> where the market is so much broader.

All of our better pcs are wood, deluxe version finely lacquered with
Chinese lacquer---not that expensive Japanese stuff.

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Jerry Wass wrote:
> jan olieslagers wrote:
>> Jerry Wass schreef:
>>> On the other hand---to get the correct mixture--fire up the torch
>>> with a large flame of correct proportions---snuff it out on a pc of
>>> wood without changing adjustment knobs--stick it in the tunnel--let
>>> run a while-- then ignite.
>>
>> Nice idea, but unworkable in this deep****asshole of a place. I
>> contacted several resellers, they all told me pc's are made of
>> (cheapo) soft steel, a bit of silicon and lots of plastic. No pc's of
>> wood available down here, I really must consider moving into them US
>> of A where the market is so much broader.
>
> All of our better pcs are wood, deluxe version finely lacquered with
> Chinese lacquer---not that expensive Japanese stuff.

Well, wood is ok, I guess.
But a good PC really needs a lot of brass tube and fittings
and steam gages.

Like this one...
http://www.geekologie.com/2009/02/monstery_frankenstein_steampun.php

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Jerry Wass wrote:
> jan olieslagers wrote:
>> Jerry Wass schreef:
>>> On the other hand---to get the correct mixture--fire up the torch
>>> with a large flame of correct proportions---snuff it out on a pc of
>>> wood without changing adjustment knobs--stick it in the tunnel--let
>>> run a while-- then ignite.
>>
>> Nice idea, but unworkable in this deep****asshole of a place. I
>> contacted several resellers, they all told me pc's are made of
>> (cheapo) soft steel, a bit of silicon and lots of plastic. No pc's of
>> wood available down here, I really must consider moving into them US
>> of A where the market is so much broader.
>
> All of our better pcs are wood, deluxe version finely lacquered with
> Chinese lacquer---not that expensive Japanese stuff.

Or just lots o' brass (double entendre intended)
http://i.gizmodo.com/5077662/datamancer-ergo-steampunk-keyboard-makes-writing-victorian-fanfics-slightly-less-uncomfortable

[Dan[_12_]]

cavelamb wrote:
> Jerry Wass wrote:
>> jan olieslagers wrote:
>>> Jerry Wass schreef:
>>>> On the other hand---to get the correct mixture--fire up the torch
>>>> with a large flame of correct proportions---snuff it out on a pc of
>>>> wood without changing adjustment knobs--stick it in the tunnel--let
>>>> run a while-- then ignite.
>>>
>>> Nice idea, but unworkable in this deep****asshole of a place. I
>>> contacted several resellers, they all told me pc's are made of
>>> (cheapo) soft steel, a bit of silicon and lots of plastic. No pc's of
>>> wood available down here, I really must consider moving into them US
>>> of A where the market is so much broader.
>>
>> All of our better pcs are wood, deluxe version finely lacquered with
>> Chinese lacquer---not that expensive Japanese stuff.
>
> Or just lots o' brass (double entendre intended)
> http://i.gizmodo.com/5077662/datamancer-ergo-steampunk-keyboard-makes-writing-victorian-fanfics-slightly-less-uncomfortable
>


That's not lots of brass, this is:

http://cache.io9.com/assets/resources/2008/04/Babbage%20Difference%20Engine%20No.%202.jpg

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
> cavelamb wrote:
>> Jerry Wass wrote:
>>> jan olieslagers wrote:
>>>> Jerry Wass schreef:
>>>>> On the other hand---to get the correct mixture--fire up the torch
>>>>> with a large flame of correct proportions---snuff it out on a pc of
>>>>> wood without changing adjustment knobs--stick it in the tunnel--let
>>>>> run a while-- then ignite.
>>>>
>>>> Nice idea, but unworkable in this deep****asshole of a place. I
>>>> contacted several resellers, they all told me pc's are made of
>>>> (cheapo) soft steel, a bit of silicon and lots of plastic. No pc's
>>>> of wood available down here, I really must consider moving into them
>>>> US of A where the market is so much broader.
>>>
>>> All of our better pcs are wood, deluxe version finely lacquered with
>>> Chinese lacquer---not that expensive Japanese stuff.
>>
>> Or just lots o' brass (double entendre intended)
>> http://i.gizmodo.com/5077662/datamancer-ergo-steampunk-keyboard-makes-writing-victorian-fanfics-slightly-less-uncomfortable
>>
>
>
> That's not lots of brass, this is:
>
> http://cache.io9.com/assets/resources/2008/04/Babbage%20Difference%20Engine%20No.%202.jpg
>
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

OOOOOooooooooooohhhhh Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Jan,

Your email address is bouncing for both of us.
How about send a real address to me and Jerry Wass?

Richard

[cavelamb[_2_]]

We went out for a shake down sail this afternoon.
Winds South East at 20 (!).

When we got back to the slip securing stuff, I was
shutting down the batteries and notices the panel
*looks* like it has an engraved overlay.
I could almost feel the edges.

Then I found the panel light switch...

(Doh!)

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

cavelamb schreef:
>
> Jan,
>
> Your email address is bouncing for both of us.
> How about send a real address to me and Jerry Wass?
>
> Richard

Yes, there's some poetical anti-spam ingedient to my usenet address.
What would you tell me in private that you find unfit for these public
pages?
KA

[cavelamb[_2_]]

jan olieslagers wrote:
> cavelamb schreef:
>>
>> Jan,
>>
>> Your email address is bouncing for both of us.
>> How about send a real address to me and Jerry Wass?
>>
>> Richard
>
> Yes, there's some poetical anti-spam ingedient to my usenet address.
> What would you tell me in private that you find unfit for these public
> pages?
> KA

Jerry was trying to contact you...