Slack line with water

[Ron Ogden]

What considerations affect a pilot flying a heavily ballasted glider
compared to an unballasted glider when dealing with a slack rope? I
appreciate your comments--Ron

[Andy[_1_]]

On May 4, 8:15*am, Ron Ogden > wrote:
> What considerations affect a pilot flying a heavily ballasted glider
> compared to an unballasted glider when dealing with a slack rope? I
> appreciate your comments--Ron

You are probably more likely to break the rope in a botched recovery
but otherwise I don't see any difference. Don't let slack develop, or
correct immediately at the first sign of slack developing. I tow on a
CG hook and prefer to use airbrake rather than yaw to recover but very
seldom need to use them. In my experience slack rope is more likely
in high tow when the glider is too high. I prefer to tow as low as
possible to be clear above the wake.

It's been a long time since I towed in rotor and never did ballasted.
Frequent wave flyers may have other advice.

Andy

[[email protected]]

On May 4, 11:44*am, Andy > wrote:
> On May 4, 8:15*am, Ron Ogden > wrote:
>
> > What considerations affect a pilot flying a heavily ballasted glider
> > compared to an unballasted glider when dealing with a slack rope? I
> > appreciate your comments--Ron
>
> You are probably more likely to break the rope in a botched recovery
> but otherwise I don't see any difference. *Don't let slack develop, or
> correct immediately at the first sign of slack developing. *I tow on a
> CG hook and prefer to use airbrake rather than yaw to recover but very
> seldom need to use them. *In my experience slack rope is more likely
> in high tow when the glider is too high. *I prefer to tow as low as
> possible to be clear above the wake.
>
> It's been a long time since I towed in rotor and never did ballasted.
> Frequent wave flyers may have other advice.
>
> Andy

I prefer yaw to make coming tight of rope more gentle.
11000 glider flights without a broken rope.
UH

[Andy[_1_]]

On May 4, 9:13*am, wrote:
> I prefer yaw to make coming tight of rope more gentle.
> 11000 glider flights without a broken rope.

How does yaw make it more gentle if using a CG hook? It probably does
with a nose hook as the glider may put less strain on the rope as the
glider is yawed back in line with the rope. For a CG hook the rope
will not yaw the glider back in line so there is no cushioning.

I just crack the brakes then close them, and pitch down slightly if
required, as the slack come out.

Andy

[[email protected]]

On May 4, 2:40*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On May 4, 9:13*am, wrote:
>
> > I prefer yaw to make coming tight of rope more gentle.
> > 11000 glider flights without a broken rope.
>
> How does yaw make it more gentle if using a CG hook? *It probably does
> with a nose hook as the glider may put less strain on the rope as the
> glider is yawed back in line with the rope. *For a CG hook the rope
> will not yaw the glider back in line so there is no cushioning.
>
> I just crack the brakes then close them, and pitch down slightly if
> required, as the slack come out.
>
> Andy

Yaw method , if done correctly, has less difference in relative
velocity as the rope comes tight. This also means less "yank", which
on a CG hook, can cause pitch up.
Yaw method also is quicker, in my experience, in starting to take out
the slack and get you away from the loop.
Also a little easier to do since fewer controls need to be
coordinated.
FWIW
UH

[Jim White[_3_]]

Surely one adopts the correct position and just waits a bit?



At 12:38 05 May 2009, wrote:
>On May 4, 2:40=A0pm, Andy wrote:
>> On May 4, 9:13=A0am, wrote:
>>
>> > I prefer yaw to make coming tight of rope more gentle.
>> > 11000 glider flights without a broken rope.
>>
>> How does yaw make it more gentle if using a CG hook? =A0It probably
does
>> with a nose hook as the glider may put less strain on the rope as the
>> glider is yawed back in line with the rope. =A0For a CG hook the rope
>> will not yaw the glider back in line so there is no cushioning.
>>
>> I just crack the brakes then close them, and pitch down slightly if
>> required, as the slack come out.
>>
>> Andy
>
>Yaw method , if done correctly, has less difference in relative
>velocity as the rope comes tight. This also means less "yank", which
>on a CG hook, can cause pitch up.
>Yaw method also is quicker, in my experience, in starting to take out
>the slack and get you away from the loop.
>Also a little easier to do since fewer controls need to be
>coordinated.
>FWIW
>UH
>

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 04 May 2009 09:13:01 -0700, unclhank wrote:

>
> I prefer yaw to make coming tight of rope more gentle. 11000 glider
> flights without a broken rope. UH
>
A method we were encouraged to try during annual checks a few years back
was to waggle the rudder rapidly so it added drag and to waggle it fast
enough to prevent the glider from reacting. It took the slack out very
nicely and slowly enough that the jerk was minimal. However, that *was*
in a Puchacz, which has an enormous rudder. I've not tried it in any
other type.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[[email protected]]

On May 4, 11:15*am, Ron Ogden > wrote:
> What considerations affect a pilot flying a heavily ballasted glider
> compared to an unballasted glider when dealing with a slack rope? I
> appreciate your comments--Ron

Simply move away from the developing loop in the rope. Yaw works too,
but if you move to one side you will start taking up the slack even
before your glider slows and the side load (yaw input) on the tow
plane will provide some "shock absorption" as the rope comes taught.

I would recommend against use of spoilers, more so as glider mass goes
up. Try it at altitude with willing tow pilot and see for yourself.

-T8

[Ron Ogden]

At 15:27 05 May 2009, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>On Mon, 04 May 2009 09:13:01 -0700, unclhank wrote:
>
>>
>> I prefer yaw to make coming tight of rope more gentle. 11000 glider
>> flights without a broken rope. UH
>>
>A method we were encouraged to try during annual checks a few years back

>was to waggle the rudder rapidly so it added drag and to waggle it fast
>enough to prevent the glider from reacting. It took the slack out very
>nicely and slowly enough that the jerk was minimal. However, that *was*
>in a Puchacz, which has an enormous rudder. I've not tried it in any
>other type.
>
>
>--
>martin@ | Martin Gregorie
>gregorie. | Essex, UK
>org |
>This idea makes me recall the American airlines Airbus accident in New
York several years ago when the copilot's overzealous ruddering managed
to flutter the composite tail right off her, with disasterous results.
Whether correctly or incorrectly, I have always felt the vertical tail
combination is the least strong of the control surfaces. Probably silly
but it just has always seemed so to me.

[John Cochrane]

I picked up some good slack pointers on a visit to Cal city a few
years ago -- where they really do slack rope (rotor)!

- Yaw/spoilers are about stopping the slack from getting bigger. Once
the slack has stabilized, you want less drag not more.

- Get to a bit above and to one side of the towplane

- As the slack is about to come out, bank slightly towards the
towplane, and nose down a bit. Presto, slack out with no worries.

- The slight bank towards the towplane is the most crucial part of the
maneuver. If you bank away from the towplane, you're like a kite and
will slingshot. I really recommend testing this: watch slack come out
with 10 degress bank toward vs. away from the towplane. The difference
is amazing.

- The last-minute yaw of the glider away from the towplane is not a
good idea. It does nothing for CG gliders, and it is a violent
sideways pull on the hook for others. If you're off to the side, the
towplane with much longer moment arm will do far more sideways
movement than you can hope for anyway. Yawing away from the towplane
makes it very likely you will bank a bit away from the towplane too,
see last item. Finally, you want less drag at the moment the rope
comes out, not more.

I haven't had huge slack with full water yet, the main question here.
It would be fun to hear from ridge/wave types what their experiences
are.

John Cochrane

[[email protected]]

On May 5, 12:30*pm, John Cochrane >
wrote:

> - The slight bank towards the towplane is the most crucial part of the
> maneuver. If you bank away from the towplane, you're like a kite and
> will slingshot. I really recommend testing this: watch slack come out
> with 10 degress bank toward vs. away from the towplane. The difference
> is amazing.

> John Cochrane

That's a really excellent point. Probably, experienced pilots do this
whether we realize it or not. I've never read it or heard it
discussed though. Good'on'ya'.

- T8