Flight training before learning to drive?

[Ricky]

Here's possibly a stretch of a question...

My daughter is only 7 but already I'm thinking of her driving and,
hopefully, learning to fly (like me). I'd love to teach her myself if
she shows interest.

I've heard many times that a pilot makes a safer driver and, looking
at myself & some other pilots I know, I believe that may be true. I've
never seen statistics but would be interested in knowing if this is
fact statistically.

Anyway, I expect to be a CFII & further soon (com./inst. now) and was
wondering if anyone has ever taught a sibling (or anyone for that
matter) to fly before they learned to drive?
Do you think it would make for a safer driver?

Ricky

[vaughn]

"Ricky" > wrote in message
...
> Anyway, I expect to be a CFII & further soon (com./inst. now) and was
> wondering if anyone has ever taught a sibling (or anyone for that
> matter) to fly before they learned to drive?

My daughter had her Private license in both gliders and SEL long before
she had a driver's license. Our strategy was simply to keep her so busy
(and for us to be so accomidating with rides) as to delay her going through
all the hassle of actually getting her operator's license. It worked! Most
of her friends had already wrecked their first car before our daughter was
driving by herself. She never had any serious accidents, and I don't even
remember any tickets.

Vaughn

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Ricky" > wrote in message
...
> Here's possibly a stretch of a question...
>
> My daughter is only 7 but already I'm thinking of her driving and,
> hopefully, learning to fly (like me). I'd love to teach her myself if
> she shows interest.
>
> I've heard many times that a pilot makes a safer driver and, looking
> at myself & some other pilots I know, I believe that may be true. I've
> never seen statistics but would be interested in knowing if this is
> fact statistically.
>
> Anyway, I expect to be a CFII & further soon (com./inst. now) and was
> wondering if anyone has ever taught a sibling (or anyone for that
> matter) to fly before they learned to drive?
> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?

Dunno if it made him a better driver, but my brother's son started as soon
as he was tall enough to see out the side of a T-18 (still to short to see
over the panel).

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

On May 4, 8:24*pm, Ricky > wrote:
> Here's possibly a stretch of a question...
>
> My daughter is only 7 but already I'm thinking of her driving and,
> hopefully, learning to fly (like me). I'd love to teach her myself if
> she shows interest.
>
> I've heard many times that a pilot makes a safer driver and, looking
> at myself & some other pilots I know, I believe that may be true. I've
> never seen statistics but would be interested in knowing if this is
> fact statistically.
>
> Anyway, I expect to be a CFII & further soon (com./inst. now) and was
> wondering if anyone has ever taught a sibling (or anyone for that
> matter) to fly before they learned to drive?
> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?
>
> Ricky

From my own experience as a youngster and later on as a CFI my opinion
would be that you are safe and indeed well advised to treat the two
issues separately. In my case, I was exposed from about age 8 to a
serious flying environment where I was around flying and people who
fly almost constantly.
This culminated in an age 16 solo.
I wasn't exposed to driving until age 15.

As an instructor, I would advise that age 7 is just fine to start a
youngster with an aviation exposure and education. Plenty of time
later on for the driving. The reasoning for this is that almost all
required to produce a safe driver has to be done while driving (expect
learning the driver's manual of course), but flying requires a much
deeper and more comprehensive learning curve where much of what has to
be retained is learned outside the cockpit.

So feel free in my opinion anyway, to start the exposure to aviation
as early as your child's interest dictates it can be done. It's never
too early to begin answering questions, and with a few well placed
cushions and some monitoring from you, actual flying of the airplane
can inspire a child as nothing else in the world could achieve.

As for me, I loved every second of my early exposure to aviation. In
the end analysis, I'd probably say that my learning to drive simply
made my trip to the airport a bit faster :-)

Hope this helped a bit, and the best of luck to you and your daughter.
Dudley Henriques

[Mike Ash]

In article
>,
Ricky > wrote:

> Here's possibly a stretch of a question...
>
> My daughter is only 7 but already I'm thinking of her driving and,
> hopefully, learning to fly (like me). I'd love to teach her myself if
> she shows interest.
>
> I've heard many times that a pilot makes a safer driver and, looking
> at myself & some other pilots I know, I believe that may be true. I've
> never seen statistics but would be interested in knowing if this is
> fact statistically.
>
> Anyway, I expect to be a CFII & further soon (com./inst. now) and was
> wondering if anyone has ever taught a sibling (or anyone for that
> matter) to fly before they learned to drive?
> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?

I took flying lessons well before I started to drive. I wouldn't say I
"learned to fly" at that point, as I didn't get my rating until much
later and I didn't really have the proper judgement or mental attitude
for it at the time. It's hard to say if it helped me with my driving.

A decade later when I started in on it again, I think it helped my
driving a fair bit even though I was 25 when I came back to it. The
ideas of being "ahead of the airplane" (or car, as the case may be), of
planning ahead, of doing things the "right way" as far as you are able
but doing whatever it takes to survive if something goes wrong, all of
this became much more apparent to me during flight training. I think
this has made me much safer, but of course 80% of drivers believe they
are above average. If a young person is mentally mature enough to absorb
these ideas then I could see it being a big help.

My little brother will be 16 this summer and is learning to drive. When
he came to visit last summer we got him a few lessons with my club. We
found an operation near my parents' place (I fly gliders so he wants to
fly gliders, and that's tougher to find) and paid it a visit last fall,
and supposedly he's been anxious to get back out there. He's asked me a
lot of good questions about flying and driving, like responding to
emergencies, the learning process, exercising judgement, and even just
the mechanics of the stuff. It seems to me that being in command (even
with the instructor) of a more unusual craft has given him an extra
interest in the whole idea and it is my completely inexpert opinion that
this will probably translate into being a safer and more knowledgeable
driver than would otherwise be the case.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[gpsman]

On May 4, 8:24*pm, Ricky > wrote:
> wondering if anyone has ever taught a sibling (or anyone for that
> matter) to fly before they learned to drive?
> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?

I'd think it would be worth a shot. Flying skills, methods and
techniques certainly transfer, IME.

I am of the opinion that kids learn to "drive" long before they take
the wheel. Those that don't spend all their time in the vehicle
playing video games, etc., anyway. They learn to endure and ignore G-
forces.

Learning to manage velocity and momentum seem bound to encourage
greater control of practically any vehicle.

Back in the day I got my first driving lessons sitting on a lap
learning to point the car on a path intended to not need correction,
probably in anticipation of eventually sending me out to plow.

I think I've learned something that I can apply to driving from every
different type of vehicle/equipment I've operated.
-----

- gpsman

[Curt Johnson[_2_]]

Ricky wrote:
> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?
>
> Ricky

The evidence would be if an auto insurance company offered discounts to
pilots. Their actuaries don't miss much.

Curt

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
Curt Johnson > wrote:

> Ricky wrote:
> > Do you think it would make for a safer driver?
> >
> > Ricky
>
> The evidence would be if an auto insurance company offered discounts to
> pilots. Their actuaries don't miss much.

Might could be a small enough group for them to safely ignore.

[Curt Johnson[_2_]]

Steve Hix wrote:
> In article >,
> Curt Johnson > wrote:
>
>> Ricky wrote:
>>> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?
>>>
>>> Ricky
>> The evidence would be if an auto insurance company offered discounts to
>> pilots. Their actuaries don't miss much.
>
> Might could be a small enough group for them to safely ignore.

Progressive gives me a couple hundred bucks a year discount for
belonging to IEEE, which has 375,000 members worldwide. There were
624,007 certificated pilots in the U.S. in January 2008 according to the
FAA.

[Ross]

Curt Johnson wrote:
> Steve Hix wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Curt Johnson > wrote:
>>
>>> Ricky wrote:
>>>> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?
>>>>
>>>> Ricky
>>> The evidence would be if an auto insurance company offered discounts
>>> to pilots. Their actuaries don't miss much.
>>
>> Might could be a small enough group for them to safely ignore.
>
> Progressive gives me a couple hundred bucks a year discount for
> belonging to IEEE, which has 375,000 members worldwide. There were
> 624,007 certificated pilots in the U.S. in January 2008 according to the
> FAA.

Darn, I shouldn't have dropped my membership to IEEE years ago. I wonder
what other discounts there are? I can get a discount for being old
though AARP.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI

[[email protected]]

Ross > wrote:
> Curt Johnson wrote:
>> Steve Hix wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Curt Johnson > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ricky wrote:
>>>>> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ricky
>>>> The evidence would be if an auto insurance company offered discounts
>>>> to pilots. Their actuaries don't miss much.
>>>
>>> Might could be a small enough group for them to safely ignore.
>>
>> Progressive gives me a couple hundred bucks a year discount for
>> belonging to IEEE, which has 375,000 members worldwide. There were
>> 624,007 certificated pilots in the U.S. in January 2008 according to the
>> FAA.
>
> Darn, I shouldn't have dropped my membership to IEEE years ago. I wonder
> what other discounts there are? I can get a discount for being old
> though AARP.

You have to wade through all the fine print from your insurance company.

I did and found there are discounts for things as obscure as having
an engineering degree, among a bunch of others.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Eric]

"gpsman" > wrote in message
...
>I think I've learned something that I can apply to driving from every
>different type of vehicle/equipment I've operated.

Funny, in some ways my experience was the opposite!

I spent a lot of my childhood tooling around on homemade go-karts that were steered by foot - push
with the right foot and the kart goes left. In adulthood that was reinforced slightly by the way
shopping carts steer. When I started my flight training, it took me forever to become comfortable
with the fact that when you push on the right rudder pedal, the nose goes *right*!

Eric Law

[Eric]

"gpsman" > wrote in message
...
>I am of the opinion that kids learn to "drive" long before they take
>the wheel. Those that don't spend all their time in the vehicle
>playing video games, etc., anyway. They learn to endure and ignore G-
>forces.

I actually agree... and then some.

This is a bit OT but... there's an automotive discussion board I frequent and from time to time
someone will post that their kid just started driving and they're concerned about unsafe things the
kid is doing - speeding up for yellow lights, ignoring stop signs, etc. I tell them what they need
to do is get a "wayback machine", go back about 15 years to when junior began observing *them* doing
those things, and cut it out!

Eric Law

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Eric" > wrote

> I spent a lot of my childhood tooling around on homemade go-karts that
> were steered by foot - push with the right foot and the kart goes left.

>When I started my flight training, it took me forever to become comfortable
>with the fact that when you push on the right rudder pedal, the nose goes
>*right*!

Yeah, me too, with that observation....

I think we should mandate a change in all airplanes, to our way of thinking.
<g>
--
Jim in NC

[Jason Warning Track Kendrick]

On Mon, 4 May 2009 17:24:29 -0700 (PDT), Ricky wrote:

> My daughter is only 7

That's old enoubh, roll her over on her back.
--
That white softball comes at me. I am not afreed. I kill it.
To the warning track. I do this a lot. NO softball timidates me
if after me. I kill it. I am The Man, I play a kid's game.
http://tr.im/1f81

[a[_3_]]

On May 4, 8:24*pm, Ricky > wrote:
> Here's possibly a stretch of a question...
>
> My daughter is only 7 but already I'm thinking of her driving and,
> hopefully, learning to fly (like me). I'd love to teach her myself if
> she shows interest.
>
> I've heard many times that a pilot makes a safer driver and, looking
> at myself & some other pilots I know, I believe that may be true. I've
> never seen statistics but would be interested in knowing if this is
> fact statistically.
>
> Anyway, I expect to be a CFII & further soon (com./inst. now) and was
> wondering if anyone has ever taught a sibling (or anyone for that
> matter) to fly before they learned to drive?
> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?
>
> Ricky

Not quite on topic, but this is a neat story

I was talking to an retired MD a dozen years ago, turns out he flew
bombers in WW II. He went into the army young, later transferred to
the army air corps. He became a command pilot, then a section leader,
and finally a squadron commander, leading at least dozens of heavy
bombers over Germany.

Finally he returned stateside to train new pilots.

We went home on leave, asked his father if he could borrow the car. He
could not -- he didn't yet have a driver's license! He was qualified
to lead dozens of airplanes, and tens of dozens of crew, in harm's
way, but not drive down the streets of his home town.

When I hear of talk about "The Greatest Generation" I told him I would
think of him. He says he thinks about the crews he led out that did
not come back.

Sorry for the diversion, but it's a favorite story. Now back to the
regularly scheduled program!
he comes to mind. And he says

[Paul H]

I don't see any way that it can do any harm, and a methodical approach
to flying will probably transfer to driving as well, but it would
depend on getting a good driving instructor.

Mature judgment is a critical component of both driving and flying,
and that's a mental process that doesn't mature early - probably not
until mid-20s.

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Curt Johnson wrote:
> Steve Hix wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Curt Johnson > wrote:
>>
>>> Ricky wrote:
>>>> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?
>>>>
>>>> Ricky
>>> The evidence would be if an auto insurance company offered discounts
>>> to pilots. Their actuaries don't miss much.
>>
>> Might could be a small enough group for them to safely ignore.
>
> Progressive gives me a couple hundred bucks a year discount for
> belonging to IEEE, which has 375,000 members worldwide. There were
> 624,007 certificated pilots in the U.S. in January 2008 according to the
> FAA.

That discount isn't because IEEE membership means you are a safer driver.

[Curt Johnson[_2_]]

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote:
> Curt Johnson wrote:
>> Steve Hix wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Curt Johnson > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ricky wrote:
>>>>> Do you think it would make for a safer driver?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ricky
>>>> The evidence would be if an auto insurance company offered discounts
>>>> to pilots. Their actuaries don't miss much.
>>>
>>> Might could be a small enough group for them to safely ignore.
>>
>> Progressive gives me a couple hundred bucks a year discount for
>> belonging to IEEE, which has 375,000 members worldwide. There were
>> 624,007 certificated pilots in the U.S. in January 2008 according to
>> the FAA.
>
> That discount isn't because IEEE membership means you are a safer driver.

California Proposition 103 requires personal automobile insurance rates
to be determined using only factors that have a substantial relationship
to the risk of loss (Ca. Insurance Code Section 1861.02a).

The discount can only mean that membership in IEEE and other qualifying
organizations indicates that, statistically, you are a safer driver.

I waded through the list of qualifying organizations on the Progressive
web site. Air traffic controllers qualify. Pilots do not.