Negotiations

[RRK]

I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the lift
deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
have to promise Him something.
Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On May 6, 10:29*pm, RRK > wrote:
> * * *I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the lift
> deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
> options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
> very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
> have to promise Him something.
> Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?

I'm usually too busy looking for lift, or a somewhere to put my glider
that won't total it, to enter any negotiations. I do spend some time
swearing at my audio vario! Regular sacrifices to the lift gods
during campouts (last year's soaring hat, well used sectionals, etc.)
accompanied by clever (or not) speeches or TOSTS are just the ticket.
So far, so good.

[[email protected]]

On May 6, 10:29*pm, RRK > wrote:
> * * *I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the lift
> deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
> options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
> very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
> have to promise Him something.
> Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?

My old stand-by; "please God, give me a thermal and I'll go to church"
hasn't worked in years!
He now requires kneeling in the cockpit!
JJ

[Gary Boggs]

I ended up in the trees one time because I was "hoping" for a save and
not paying close enough attention to where I was going to land if
those good looking clouds didn't produce any lift. Believe me, this
is something I won't do twice! Much better than hoping and praying,
is to have a plan! You should have a plan at 5000ft agl, and re-think
the plan every thousand feet as you get lower. Way too many crashes
happen because pilots wait until they are way too low to start
thinking, and praying about their plan of action and panic start to
cloud thier decision making.
Ever notice how hot it gets in the cockpit when you really need to
catch that thermal?

Gary Boggs
>
> > * * *I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the lift
> > deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
> > options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
> > very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
> > have to promise Him something.
> > Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?
>
> I'm usually too busy looking for lift, or a somewhere to put my glider
> that won't total it, to enter any negotiations. I do spend some time
> swearing at my audio vario! *Regular sacrifices to the lift gods
> during campouts (last year's soaring hat, well used sectionals, etc.)
> accompanied by clever (or not) speeches or TOSTS are just the ticket.
> So far, so good.

[Gary Boggs]

JJ outlanded in a nudist colony one time. Now that's a plan!

Gary Boggs

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On May 7, 7:29*am, GARY BOGGS > wrote:
> JJ outlanded in a nudist colony one time. *Now that's a plan!
>
> Gary Boggs

Need coordinates! Perhaps lat/long info in the Turnpoint Exchange?

[[email protected]]

On May 7, 7:29*am, GARY BOGGS > wrote:
> JJ outlanded in a nudist colony one time. *Now that's a plan!
>
> Gary Boggs

Actually it was a cat-house, one of Nevada's finest. My crew (wife)
was there before I could knock on the door!
JJ

[Berry[_2_]]

In article
>,
Uncle Fuzzy > wrote:

> On May 6, 10:29*pm, RRK > wrote:
> > * * *I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the lift
> > deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
> > options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
> > very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
> > have to promise Him something.
> > Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?
>
> I'm usually too busy looking for lift, or a somewhere to put my glider
> that won't total it, to enter any negotiations. I do spend some time
> swearing at my audio vario! Regular sacrifices to the lift gods
> during campouts (last year's soaring hat, well used sectionals, etc.)
> accompanied by clever (or not) speeches or TOSTS are just the ticket.
> So far, so good.

The wreckage of a crashed Cherokee (the homebuilt glider, not the Piper
spam can) was burned on the annual fall bonfire at Caesar Creek (Ohio,
USA) one year. The next year produced some of the best soaring ever seen
in Ohio. We concluded that the burnt offering to the lift gods was well
received.

After a subsequent wet, dreary year, we decide we needed to make
supplication to the gods once again. A large paper mache glider was
constructed. One of the glider port sages suggested that the offering
might be made more effective if we had virgins dance naked around the
fire. This idea was met with much enthusiasm, but, was ultimately
rejected when we realized that while we actually had a fair number of
virgins at the gliderport, none of them were female.

[Andy[_1_]]

On May 7, 7:02*am, GARY BOGGS > wrote:
>*Much better than hoping and praying,
> is to have a plan! *You should have a plan at 5000ft agl, and re-think
> the plan every thousand feet as you get lower. *

No argument with the philosphy but there is nothing magic about 5000ft
agl. In some place I fly you may have very few landing choices at
5,000 ft agl. In other places you may still have lots of choices at
1,000 ft agl.

Rather than specify an altitude it's probably better to decide how
many options you want to keep open. The list reduces with altitude
and the last one left ought to be landing in a known safe place. (No,
it hasn't always worked out that way for me)


Andy

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

At 17:10 07 May 2009, wrote:
>On May 7, 7:29=A0am, GARY BOGGS wrote:
>> JJ outlanded in a nudist colony one time. =A0Now that's a plan!
>>
>> Gary Boggs
>
>Actually it was a cat-house, one of Nevada's finest. My crew (wife)
>was there before I could knock on the door!
>JJ
>

1. What is the total number for Nevada's finest?

2. What is the total numb for Nevada, all inclusive?

3. Describe the procedures for your ranking.

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

At 17:10 07 May 2009, wrote:
>On May 7, 7:29=A0am, GARY BOGGS wrote:
>> JJ outlanded in a nudist colony one time. =A0Now that's a plan!
>>
>> Gary Boggs
>
>Actually it was a cat-house, one of Nevada's finest. My crew (wife)
>was there before I could knock on the door!
>JJ
>

1. What is the total number for Nevada's finest?

2. What is the total numb for Nevada, all inclusive?

3. Describe the procedures for your ranking.

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

At 17:10 07 May 2009, wrote:
>On May 7, 7:29=A0am, GARY BOGGS wrote:
>> JJ outlanded in a nudist colony one time. =A0Now that's a plan!
>>
>> Gary Boggs
>
>Actually it was a cat-house, one of Nevada's finest. My crew (wife)
>was there before I could knock on the door!
>JJ
>

1. What is the total number for Nevada's finest?

2. What is the total numb for Nevada, all inclusive?

3. Describe the procedures for your ranking.

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On May 7, 11:30*am, Nyal Williams > wrote:
> At 17:10 07 May 2009, wrote:
>
> >On May 7, 7:29=A0am, GARY BOGGS *wrote:
> >> JJ outlanded in a nudist colony one time. =A0Now that's a plan!
>
> >> Gary Boggs
>
> >Actually it was a cat-house, one of Nevada's finest. My crew (wife)
> >was there before I could knock on the door!
> >JJ
>
> 1. What is the total number for Nevada's finest?
>
> 2. What is the total numb for Nevada, all inclusive?
>
> 3. Describe the procedures for your ranking.

Most are closed now, but the runways are still (bare ly ;-) )
servicable.
I have coordinates for a few. Haven't needed them yet. There is often
an interesting cyclic thermal over the Cherry Patch. Very odd.

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 14:00 07 May 2009, wrote:
>
>My old stand-by; "please God, give me a thermal and I'll go to
church"
>hasn't worked in years!

Well, considering how many of us make that promise, and how few of us keep
it even after being awarded a thermal, can you blame Him? After a while
even God recognizes insincerity when He hears it.

Jim Beckman

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 18:30 07 May 2009, Nyal Williams wrote:
>
>1. What is the total number for Nevada's finest?
>
>2. What is the total numb for Nevada, all inclusive?

Google knows all, tells all:

http://www.nevadalegalbrothels.com/home.htm

Jim Beckman

[Don Johnstone[_4_]]

At 18:21 07 May 2009, Andy wrote:
>On May 7, 7:02=A0am, GARY BOGGS wrote:
>>=A0Much better than hoping and praying,
>> is to have a plan! =A0You should have a plan at 5000ft agl, and
re-think
>> the plan every thousand feet as you get lower. =A0
>
>No argument with the philosphy but there is nothing magic about 5000ft
>agl. In some place I fly you may have very few landing choices at
>5,000 ft agl. In other places you may still have lots of choices at
>1,000 ft agl.
>
>Rather than specify an altitude it's probably better to decide how
>many options you want to keep open. The list reduces with altitude
>and the last one left ought to be landing in a known safe place. (No,
>it hasn't always worked out that way for me)
>
>
>Andy
>

Oh how others live!!! If I was ever lucky enough to fly on a day when you
could get to 5000ft I ceased to worry about where I was going to land,
that was over 30 miles away and I could not see that far. In the UK 3000ft
is a good day. 5000ft is lying to your boss territory.

[[email protected]]

On May 6, 10:29*pm, RRK > wrote:
> * * *I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the lift
> deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
> options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
> very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
> have to promise Him something.
> Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?


My best times of worship are usually between 12,000' and 17,999 on the
Inyos, Whites and Sierras. I've had equal or better on the Monitors.
The Lord likes to see the ear to ear grin on my face as I'm coring a
15 knot thermal. Can't get much closer to God.

[Wayne Paul]

> wrote in message ...
On May 6, 10:29 pm, RRK > wrote:
>> I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the lift
>> deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
>> options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
>> very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
>> have to promise Him something.
>> Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?
>
>
> My best times of worship are usually between 12,000' and 17,999 on the
> Inyos, Whites and Sierras. I've had equal or better on the Monitors.
> The Lord likes to see the ear to ear grin on my face as I'm coring a
> 15 knot thermal. Can't get much closer to God.

This is also true for those of us who fly over the mountains of centeral Idaho.
http://www.soaridaho.com/photogallery/Mackay/Lost_River_Mt_Range.jpg
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/HP-14/N990/HP-14_6F_1a.jpg
http://www.soaridaho.com/photogallery/Mackay/17900_MSL.jpg
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/HP-14/N990/HP-14_N990d.jpg

Wayne
HP-16 "6F".
http://www.soaridaho.com/

[Tony Condon[_2_]]

>My best times of worship are usually between 12,000' and 17,999 on the
>Inyos, Whites and Sierras. I've had equal or better on the Monitors.
>The Lord likes to see the ear to ear grin on my face as I'm coring a
>15 knot thermal. Can't get much closer to God.
>

Can I get an amen?

A-MEN!

Of course the strongest thermal I've ever been in was maybe 8 knots, and
I've flown entire cross countries below 5000 feet (and 3000 feet
probably).


-Tony Condon
Cherokee II N373Y

[[email protected]]

This reminds me of an old Ed Kilbourne classic!!!

"Ridge runners, ridge runners, way up in the wave
Even Jesus must be wondering just how you boys got saved
You were almost 6 feet under now you're dancing on your grave
There ain't nothing like some altitude to make a man feel brave."

When I was in high school, it was a beautiful soaring day. I couldn't
help myself...after looking out the windows during 4th period at all
the cumulus clouds starting to pop and the flagpole showing a
northwest wind.....Well it's obvious, you would have done the same if
you grew up outside of New Castle, VA.....On a hall pass to use the
bathroom, I skipped school. I hopped in my car when the vice
principal Mr. Stevenson wasn't looking and raced to the gliderclub.
On wednesday's we had a regular towpilot and only a few die-hard
glider pilots to go soaring with. I hopped in the L-33 and was off in
the air before noon. Since the conditions were "Labratory Conditions"
as Karl Striedieck might say, I thought "what would my great
instructor 55 do?"....he would no doubt go cross country! Yeah baby!
After flying the ridge to almost near my high school 25 miles away and
thermalling up to around 6,000 feet I scooted north up to Covington,
WV. On the way back late in the day, I got really low over Oriskany,
VA...about 1,300 feet. There was a great big flat field below me. I
had picked up another club member from that field just recently when
he landed out. I remember thinking, if I don't make this
work......I'm in trouble with school, parents and others. I didn't
pray then, but I sure do thank God for that last thermal to get me
home now that I look back!!!

On a serious note. A well respected friend and pilot examiner for my
airline had an interesting story. In the winter once, he flew through
some unforecasted severe icing which led to large vibrations coming
from an engine which led to a shutdown. With his airplane loaded to
the gils with ice, on one engine, he coldn't maintain altitude so he
entered a shallow dive to maintain his minimum driftdown airspeed. In
his own words he said "it was the most narly and terrible situation I
had ever seen." He, a christian, claimed to have never prayed before
in the cockpit while flying. Scared, nervous and out of ideas to get
out of trouble, he nodded his head for a few second prayer. When he
opened his eyes, off to his right was an opening in the clouds. He
turned right and the ice began to melt off as he flew VMC all the way
to a VMC airport and landed single engine.

Since I know this man personally, I can testify to this story. I
believe his prayer worked. I believe if he hadn't prayed it would
have been much worse.

[Tim Ward[_1_]]

> wrote in message
...
On May 6, 10:29 pm, RRK > wrote:
> I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the lift
> deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
> options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
> very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
> have to promise Him something.
> Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?

My old stand-by; "please God, give me a thermal and I'll go to church"
hasn't worked in years!
He now requires kneeling in the cockpit!
JJ

I find threats work better:

"Please, God, give me a thermal, or I'll go to church".

Tim

[Udo Rumpf[_2_]]

At 05:29 07 May 2009, RRK wrote:
> I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the lift
>deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
>options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
>very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
>have to promise Him something.
>Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?
>
I let out a primal scream and the farmer yells back, shut up
It usually works and then I am on my way.
Udo

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

According to Ambrose Bierce, he says in his book, The Devil's Dictionary,
that prayer is asking the Almighty to suspend the laws of physics for
one's personal advantage.




At 19:15 08 May 2009, Udo Rumpf wrote:
>At 05:29 07 May 2009, RRK wrote:
>> I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the
lift
>>deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
>>options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
>>very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
>>have to promise Him something.
>>Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?
>>
>I let out a primal scream and the farmer yells back, shut up
>It usually works and then I am on my way.
>Udo
>

[TonyV[_2_]]

RRK wrote:
> I'm sure I'm not the only X-country sailor who negotiate the lift
> deals with the God. You know. You get low, nothing is working, landing
> options are limited and there....a little too far away... you see the
> very last chance. You have to ask The Almighty for a little help and
> have to promise Him something.
> Please share you thoughts and ultimate outcomes ?


In an article I once wrote:
"... It’s amazing to me how your mood can swing so radically in an
instant on an XC glider flight. When you get low, you sweat and you
curse, you consider making deals with demons and deities – anything to
save you from “landing out”. Then, when you hit that important thermal,
you’re climbing again, the sun is shining, and life is beautiful...."

Tony V.

[bumper]

"TonyV" > wrote in message
...

>
> In an article I once wrote:
> "... It’s amazing to me how your mood can swing so radically in an instant
> on an XC glider flight. When you get low, you sweat and you curse, you
> consider making deals with demons and deities – anything to save you from
> “landing out”. Then, when you hit that important thermal, you’re climbing
> again, the sun is shining, and life is beautiful...."
>
> Tony V.

Being as Beelzebub is oft regarded as being the resident expert in high BTU
environments, it's logical to conclude he may be your best bet when asking
for themals (please note that I am not suggesting anyone try this - - no
way, weigh the options, it may be best to land out). However, having the
ability to swivel one's head 360 degrees could have positive safety
implications as it allows for easy checking of one's "six" - - just be sure
you have a ready supply of sick-saks.

bumper

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 21:45 08 May 2009, Nyal Williams wrote:
>According to Ambrose Bierce, he says in his book, The Devil's
Dictionary,
>that prayer is asking the Almighty to suspend the laws of physics for
>one's personal advantage.

That works for me. I mean, why not?
He can do it, and I deserve it.

Jim Beckman

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

At 13:15 09 May 2009, Jim Beckman wrote:
>At 21:45 08 May 2009, Nyal Williams wrote:
>>According to Ambrose Bierce, he says in his book, The Devil's
>Dictionary,
>>that prayer is asking the Almighty to suspend the laws of physics for
>>one's personal advantage.
>
>That works for me. I mean, why not?
>He can do it, and I deserve it.
>
>Jim Beckman
>
That's first-order narcissism; virtually all glider pilots are afflicted.

[Don Johnstone[_4_]]

There was a severe flood warning, two police officers toured the village to
be worst effected. They called at one house and spoke to the gentleman
there, They offered to take him away to somewhere safe. He declined their
offer saying "I have prayed and The Lord will protect and keep me safe".
The following day the flood waters were 8ft deep, two lifeboat men in a
rubber boat went to the gentlemans house and offered to take him to a
place of safety, away from the rising waters, he declined saying "The
Lord will answer my prayer, protect and save me". The waters continued to
rise and the folowing morning he was sitting on the roof of his house and
the Air/Sea rescue parrafin budgie hovered overhead. The winchman went
down on the line and offered to lift the gentleman off the roof and take
him to a place of safety, He declined saying, "My prayer will be
answered, the Lord will protect and save me". Later that day he fell off
the roof and drowned and when he got to heaven he said to God, I prayed
for deliverance and you did not answer my prayer. God said, "I sent you
two members of the constabulary, two lifeboatmen in a boat and and 3 men
in an Air/Sea rescue parrafin budgie, what more could I do"?

Are you sure you know what you are praying for?

[TonyV[_2_]]

Don Johnstone wrote:
........God said, "I sent you
> two members of the constabulary, two lifeboatmen in a boat and and 3 men
> in an Air/Sea rescue parrafin budgie, what more could I do"?


LOL, I believe that I "saw" that on a West Wing episode.

Tony