Flight logger for dummies

[jeplane]

OK, talk to me like I am a 4 year old:

From A to Z, what do I need to buy to be able to send my flight to
OLC? And how much am I looking at?
Thanks

Richard
Phoenix, AZ

[[email protected]]

On May 7, 10:56*am, jeplane > wrote:
> OK, talk to me like I am a 4 year old:
>
> From A to Z, what do I need to buy to be able to send my flight to
> OLC? And how much am I looking at?
> Thanks
>
> Richard
> Phoenix, AZ

If you want really cheap, look at the eTrex H. Street price around $75
and there's a number of software options to download your tracklogs
and convert to IGC for free.

[[email protected]]

On May 7, 8:56*am, jeplane > wrote:
> OK, talk to me like I am a 4 year old:
>
> From A to Z, what do I need to buy to be able to send my flight to
> OLC? And how much am I looking at?
> Thanks
>
> Richard
> Phoenix, AZ

It is free if that's what you mean by "how much am I looking at".

The OLC registration and upload directions can be found here:
http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/plainJsp.html?prefix_jsp=help

Basically you need to:

A) Register as an OLC competitor
B) If you don't have a logger, get a logger
C) If you don't have a glider, buy or rent a glider
D) Insert logger (B) into glider (C)
E) If you are not approved to fly gliders, take lessons until the
instructor approves you for solo.
F) Get checked out to fly glider (C)
G) Take glider (C) to someplace where they tow gliders into the air
H) If it needs assembly, assemble the glider
I) Arrange for a tow
J) Preflight the glider
K) Make sure that logger (B) is on and running
L) Close and lock the canopy
M) Take off, fly, land
N) If necessary, disassemble the glider and put it away
O) Do whatever is necessary to get the flight log from your logger
onto your PC in .igc format. Most current loggers store directly
into .igc format, but some (old Cambridge loggers, LX loggers) have
their own proprietary formats that need to be converted. See the
manual for your specific logger.
P) Log onto OLC using your ID and password obtained in step (A)
Q) Select Direct Claim from the "Claim flight" menu near the top of
the page
R) Fill out the information on the Direct Claim page to identify
yourself
S) Click on the "Choose flight" button on the Direct Claim page
T) Navigate to where you save the .igc file for your flight and select
it.
U) Follow additional instructions to provide relevant information
about yourself and your flight to complete the process.
V) Click on the "Upload" button to upload the flight.
W) Follow any additional instructions and deal with errors as
requested.
X) Wait to hear back from OLC on the status of you flight approval via
email.
Y) Deal with any requests if there are issues with your flight.
Z) Report back here on your success.

Alternatively, you can get a copy of SeeYou (or other flight analysis
software) and upload from within the program once you have your flight
loaded into the program.

I didn't go through the process of buying a PC - hopefully you already
have one. Plus I was out of letters. ;-)

Have fun!

9B

[Andy[_1_]]

On May 7, 9:53*am, wrote:

Nice list ;) but I think the OP wanted guidance on the lowest cost
logger than would satisfy OLC requirements. Since I have 2 very
expensive ones, one of which was made obsolete soon after I bought it,
I can't offer any advice - except to beware of regulation creep.

Andy

[Papa3]

On May 7, 11:56*am, jeplane > wrote:
> OK, talk to me like I am a 4 year old:
>
> From A to Z, what do I need to buy to be able to send my flight to
> OLC? And how much am I looking at?
> Thanks
>
> Richard
> Phoenix, AZ

First, stop hitting your sister and sit up straight.

Okay, now...

- For well under $100 you can have a logger that is acceptable to
the OLC. I'll assume for the moment you are NOT interested in FAI
badges or records.
- There are two general categories of cheap loggers:
* PDA based wherein you stick a GPS card into your IPAQ (or similar)
while running a program designed to provide you with some sort of
navigation and logging. Some of these programs are free. Some
aren't.
* Commercial Off The Shelf loggers designed for hiking, fishing,
etc. These are self-contained units that combine navigation, display,
and logging functions in one unit. These are typically the simplest
to use as they are designed for John Q. Public.
- Since there are proponents of both of the above, I'll just pick
COTS (since I use one); not suggesting that there aren't wonderful
PDA-based options.
- IF you go COTS, something like a Garmin GPSMAP76 on the used market
(e.g. eBay) can be had for around $75 or less.
- Learn how to use the Garmin to capture the log file. For the most
part, you just turn it on, and it records.
- Go fly somewhere.
- When you've finished a flight, you need to use a computer (I'll
avoid specifically saying "PC", as you could potentially use a MAC, a
mainframe, a VAX, iSeries, whatever)
- You typically need a special cable to connect the GPS to your
computer.
- You also need software running on the computer that knows how to
talk to the GPS. Two options that work with the Garmin example I'm
using:
* G7toWin is free. http://www.gpsinformation.org/ronh/
* SeeYou isn't free, but does lots of other cool stuff. http://www.naviter.si/
- If you use G7toWin, you will end up with an .IGC file on your
computer. Then, you would log-in to the OLC and manually submit the
flight following the instructions.
- If you use SeeYou, you can directly submit the flight from
SeeYou.

To summarize what you need for the COTS example:

- COTS GPS device with logging capability.
- Cable to connect GPS to computer (supplied by GPS manufacturer)
- Computer
- Software that knows how to talk to the GPS from your computer.

Now finish your vegetables and wash your hands.

P3

[Eric Greenwell]

jeplane wrote:
> OK, talk to me like I am a 4 year old:
>
> From A to Z, what do I need to buy to be able to send my flight to
> OLC? And how much am I looking at?
> Thanks

You are not flying a motorglider, right?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[flying_monkey]

On May 7, 2:28*pm, Papa3 > wrote:
> On May 7, 11:56*am, jeplane > wrote:
>
> > OK, talk to me like I am a 4 year old:
>
> > From A to Z, what do I need to buy to be able to send my flight to
> > OLC? And how much am I looking at?
> > Thanks
>
> > Richard
> > Phoenix, AZ
>
> First, stop hitting your sister and sit up straight.

Good line!

<snip>

I'm going to put in a plug for acapable and cheap solution.

You could buy almost any cheap, newer dedicated car navigator
(commonly called a Personal Navigation Assistant,or PNA). It must be
based on Windows CE, or Windows Mobile. If it says Windows CE Core,
or some such, that's OK. TomTom and some other units are Linux based
and will not work. I have a Nokia 500 that I got off eBay for $110.
At first this seems useless for flying, but there are many sites which
tell you how to "unlock" this device, which turns it into a fairly
complete PDA. The newer ones with 4.3 inch screens seem to me to be
brighter and work in sunlight better than the older units. (And,
after unlocking it, you can still use the car navigation functions.)

On this unlocked PNA, you will install the free open source program
XCSoar (xcsoar.org), which provides pretty complete glide computer
functionality. It will generate a .igc file which will have the
security stamp (G-record) required by the OLC. This is also
acceptable in regional contests. Many say that it's better than
SeeYou Mobile and the others, to me it's certainly as good as
PocketStrePla, which I own. Since the PNA has a built-in GPS, that
isn't a problem.

You will need something to supply power to this unit, unless you plan
flights of about 2 hours or less, and to use it in the cockpit, you'll
need some kind of holder for it. Paul sells everything you'll need
here (cumulus-soaring.com). I already had the RAM-HOL-PD2 to hold the
PNA (current price 30.95), connected to the Suction Cup Mount Kit,
"B" Size, Plastic 3" Arm and Metal Diamond Base (current price 45.85)
and this setup works quite well for me. The car windshield suction
cup mount that comes with the PNA might also work, but I'm not sure
how well, because the suction cup is smaller. For power, I use the
Socket Mobile Power Pack that he sells, but you could also use his
PS-5a power converter that he sells with the appropriate cable, or
something similar.

Now, this costs just a bit more than the eTrex example above, but you
get quite a lot of functionality for that extra money. And it's way
less than the SeeYou Mobile and other commercial options. First, this
whole system will be cheaper than the commercial glide computer
software alone, and that would still require you to buy an expensive
PDA (which probably won't have as good a display).

This is not intended to be a commercial for Cumulus, as all this or
similar stuff can be bought from Richard, Tim or others at about the
same price. I probably left out something, but you get the idea.

Just my $0.02,
Ed

[uros]

On May 7, 5:56*pm, jeplane > wrote:
> OK, talk to me like I am a 4 year old:
>
> From A to Z, what do I need to buy to be able to send my flight to
> OLC? And how much am I looking at?
> Thanks
>
> Richard
> Phoenix, AZ

Since you are talking about cheap loggers here is another one
(mine :-) ) - flyWithCE Flight Recorder. Simple, small and easy to
use and bundled together with software. Can record signed IGC files.
For more information:
http://www.flywithce.com/recorder.html

You can contact Tim from Wings & Wheels if you need more information
on this.

Best regards

Uros

[[email protected]]

On May 7, 10:51*am, Andy > wrote:
> On May 7, 9:53*am, wrote:
>
> Nice list ;) but I think the OP wanted guidance on the lowest cost
> logger than would satisfy OLC requirements. *Since I have 2 very
> expensive ones, one of which was made obsolete soon after I bought it,
> I can't offer any advice - except to beware of regulation creep.
>
> Andy

Now I feel silly - but I am proud of the fact that I got all the way
from A to Z nevertheless.

Be aware that the COTS GPS examples like eTrex will have limited
usefulness as a soaring computer in terms of calculating final glides,
etc. I have not used one so I don't know how much of a disability this
is and you may already have all the flight instruments you want - or
may be renting gliders where you have to take what you get.

I few weeks back I got an HP iPaq 310 travel companion. It is one of
the Windows Mobile-based PNAs - car navigation systems. I paid $175
direct from HP since it was discontinued. I paid to upgrade SeeYou
Mobile to the version that runs on this device. It works quite well
and is a fully functioning soaring computer with a very nice color
moving map display and all the OLC optimization features you might
want in flight. As mentioned by another poster, there are also free
programs with similar functionality, so overall it can be a pretty
good value. The iPaq 310 also comes with a nice suction cup mount that
works just fine on most canopies. You do have to get supplemental
power if you want to fly longer than a couple of hours. There are
several available options to do this.

9B

[Pete Brown]

Richard:

I just got a bluetooth GPS off eBay that feeds my Treo 650 (Palm OS PDA)
with the GPS signal. Cost of GPS, $22.00, including freight.

Almost any cheap GPS that will provide GPRMB, GPRMC, GPGGA & PGRMZ
sentences, NMEA version 2.0+ and which uses with Serial Port Profile
(SPP) should work. Make sure your unit comes with enough internal
battery power to last for a long flight or can otherwise be charged in
flight.

You don't need a separate screen or any other GPS software other than
SP. My unit is an ABG108 amod Bluetooth GPS Receiver. I still see them
on EBay for less than $24.00. Holux makes some similar units that are a
bit more pricey. I am too cheap to pay up.

I run Soaring Pilot, the soaring computer program, on my Treo. See
http://www.soaringpilot.org/index.html

Soaring Pilot (SP) is shareware. Total Cost $ -0-. We are up to $22.00
for the GPS and the software.


I already had a Treo 650 PDA so, for me, there was no more incremental
cost. You need a Palm OS device with bluetooth and preferably an SD
card although that is not absolutely necessary. See the Soaring Pilot
manual for suitable units or check out the Soaring Pilot Yahoo group.
Think Ebay again for a suitable older Palm OS PDA. You don't need
anything fancy if you don't already own a pda.

You now have a unit that acts as a logger, GPS, and full function
soaring computer. You can save the flight log on the SD card and use a
card reader to transfer the flight log file from the PDA to your pc at
which point you can upload to OLC.

You can try this out for a few bucks and if you like the system, you can
spend more and upgrade later. Mine works just fine.

Pete Brown
Anchorage


jeplane wrote:
> OK, talk to me like I am a 4 year old:
>
> From A to Z, what do I need to buy to be able to send my flight to
> OLC? And how much am I looking at?
> Thanks
>
> Richard
> Phoenix, AZ

[Peter Purdie[_3_]]

I am confused (a state my friends and others may confirm is not unusual).

OLC rejects flights from secure flight recorders where the validity fails
(for example, where the internal battery which backs up the security
number has gone flat).

Are you saying that IGC files from non-secure recorders, such as PDAs
which can be driven from GPS which

(a) are not necessarily set to WGS84 and

(b) may have the 'prediction vector' enabled - this can record a
position in a zone when the glider turns outside

are acceptable, but one from an IGC approved recorder are not unless they
pass the validity check?

If so, bizarre.

[Clint]

On May 8, 9:15*am, Peter Purdie > wrote:
> I am confused (a state my friends and others may confirm is not unusual).
>
> OLC rejects flights from secure flight recorders where the validity fails
> (for example, where the internal battery which backs up the security
> number has gone flat).
>
> Are you saying that IGC files from non-secure recorders, such as PDAs
> which can be driven from GPS which
>
> (a) are not necessarily set to WGS84 and
>
> (b) may have the 'prediction vector' enabled - this can record a
> position in a zone when the glider turns outside
>
> are acceptable, but one from an IGC approved recorder are not unless they
> pass the validity check?
>
> If so, bizarre.

[Clint]

I have tried various soloutions for logging flights including a Garmin
E-Trek, LX5000, Palm running Soaringpilot, Colibri, Winpilot on a HP
IPAQ and finally an EW. Off all the solutions - the EW is the easiest
and most reliable. Stick it into the glider - remember to start it
before launching and after the flight just plug it into the PC using
an USB cable. No connections to the glider needed as it has its own
battery. No external GPS needed as its built in. The flight records
are fully approved which is important for claiming diamond flights.

The Winpilot solution is also ok but have lost a flight record due to
the IPAQ freezing in flight and needing a reset. The Palm with
Soaringpilot is totally reliable (over 400 flights and never a
failure) but transfering flights needs extra software. It was also far
cheaper than the Winpilot as the Palm was about $100 and the software
is free. Both the Winpilot and Soaringpilot solutions need external
GPS sources - something like a Garmin E-Trex is probably the cheapest.

Clinton

LAK12

[M C]

Hi Peter,

An approved logger is not required for OLC Classic Scoring IF one uses
approved software that includes Soar Pilot and XCSoar, both of which are
free to the user. These programs have a measure of security built in to
the validation part of their software.
This is to allow participation in OLC for those that can not afford state
of the art equipment.

So, for example, if you have an approved logger, that fails security
validation, and are using approved software, a flight will still be scored
for OLC Classic. This happened to me two weeks ago using a Cambridge 302A
that needed (I guess) its memory cleared. I use XCSoar, so when I
submitted the XCSoar flight log, OLC scored my flight.

GPS, used by current software programs and loggers, since 1984, is WGS84
by definition, soaring began using GPS in the early 90's so equipment
problems should be a non issue in that regard. OLC does not really care
about proper turnpoints, so, IF there is a prediction vector issue, which
I doubt- with modern logging times used and your actual position being
shown on a PDA or PNA with navigation software, it would not make much
difference.



At 07:15 08 May 2009, Peter Purdie wrote:
>I am confused (a state my friends and others may confirm is not
unusual).
>
>OLC rejects flights from secure flight recorders where the validity
fails
>(for example, where the internal battery which backs up the security
>number has gone flat).
>
>Are you saying that IGC files from non-secure recorders, such as PDAs
>which can be driven from GPS which
>
>(a) are not necessarily set to WGS84 and
>
>(b) may have the 'prediction vector' enabled - this can record a
>position in a zone when the glider turns outside
>
>are acceptable, but one from an IGC approved recorder are not unless
they
>pass the validity check?
>
>If so, bizarre.
>
>

[tobi[_2_]]

On 7 Mai, 17:56, jeplane > wrote:
> OK, talk to me like I am a 4 year old:
>
> From A to Z, what do I need to buy to be able to send my flight to
> OLC? And how much am I looking at?
> Thanks
>
> Richard
> Phoenix, AZ

Another well proven combination: GPS device (eg Holux mouse) , PDA,
GPS_LOG software (free), that's all you need. Ok, to upload you need
an internet connection, that should be obvious even for 4 Y olds. For
long flights you may need additional batteries.

[Darryl Ramm]

On May 8, 1:30*am, M C > wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> An approved logger is not required for OLC Classic Scoring IF one uses
> approved software that includes Soar Pilot and XCSoar, both of which are
> free to the user. [snip]

The exception that Eric was alluding to is if you are flying a
motorglider then an IGC approved flight recorder with ENL recording is
required even for OLC Classic. OLC knows what gliders are motorgliders
based on their type and automatically enforces this.

An IHC approved flight recorder is also required to participate in the
OLC League or OLC FAI (FAI Triangle).

Darryl

[ContestID67[_2_]]

I always warn people that this "cheap" path has one fatal flaw. You
cannot use a non-FAI approved recorder for badges, records and many/
most contests. And any SSA sanctioned contest requires that the PIC
holds a silver badge (correct?) - which means that all contests
require an FAI approved logger at some point in time.

So there are lots of inexpensive choices for GPS's which do recording
and may work for OLC, but you might end up with a white elephant. Of
course you might be able to sell it on eBay.

Unfortunately, the FAI approved loggers are not cheap. $730 for the
EW Microrecorder is the cheapest I know of (pretty nice really). But
I have a problem with loose boxy recorders floating around the
cockpit.

So I recommend a path that you can grow with and has some extra
functionality to boot.

1) PDA that can run some soaring software. $100-$500. Find one on
eBay. Must have a CF slot.
2) Some soaring software. Some are free. Glide Nav is pretty cheap
$95 and produces IGC log files (non-FAI). Better than terrestrial GPS
units or even aviation GPS units as it provides you soaring optimized
data, turnpoints info, flight planning, etc, etc.
3) A GPS source. The least expensive solution is the Holux CF Card
GPS for $90 which fits right into the PDA.
4) PDA cradle with suction cup ($100)

So for $400-$800 you get something that is usable, portable, produces
log files, and is grow-able. Growable because when you do decide to
upgrade to FAI certified all you need to add is something like a
Cambridge 302a ($900). This will be your GPS and gives Glide Nav
extra info plus other features. Go to the Cambridge 302 and you also
have a flight computer, audio vario, etc, etc.

See http://cumulus-soaring.com/cai_302a.htm for an idea of the end
product.

My $0.02. Good luck.

- John DeRosa