SUA files and COTS GPS Units

[chipsoars]

Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76 or
ETREX? If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.

thanks,

Chip Fitzpatrick

[vontresc]

I don't know about adding airspace to a garmin unit, but I used Soar
Pilot last year with my treo 650 and a bluetooth GPS. The advantage of
such a system is that you can easily load turn points, and airspace.
Additionally it is a pretty full featured Soaring computer, and best
of all it's FREE! :-)

If you don't have a palm there's always XCsoar (freeware as well) for
the windows mobile family of PDAs

Pete

On May 13, 10:15*am, chipsoars > wrote:
> Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76 or
> ETREX? *If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
> performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.
>
> thanks,
>
> Chip Fitzpatrick

[chipsoars]

On May 13, 12:00*pm, vontresc > wrote:
> I don't know about adding airspace to a garmin unit, but I used Soar
> Pilot last year with my treo 650 and a bluetooth GPS. The advantage of
> such a system is that you can easily load turn points, and airspace.
> Additionally it is a pretty full featured Soaring computer, and best
> of all it's FREE! :-)
>
> If you don't have a palm there's always XCsoar (freeware as well) for
> the windows mobile family of PDAs
>
> Pete
>
> On May 13, 10:15*am, chipsoars > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76 or
> > ETREX? *If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
> > performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > Chip Fitzpatrick- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm familiar with the freeware PDA/Palm approaches. The reason I'm
asking is one of my soaring partners (and perhaps others now that COTS
will be useful for badges in the US after October) does not want to
buy or bother with a PDA.

[Darryl Ramm]

On May 13, 9:22*am, chipsoars > wrote:
> On May 13, 12:00*pm, vontresc > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I don't know about adding airspace to a garmin unit, but I used Soar
> > Pilot last year with my treo 650 and a bluetooth GPS. The advantage of
> > such a system is that you can easily load turn points, and airspace.
> > Additionally it is a pretty full featured Soaring computer, and best
> > of all it's FREE! :-)
>
> > If you don't have a palm there's always XCsoar (freeware as well) for
> > the windows mobile family of PDAs
>
> > Pete
>
> > On May 13, 10:15*am, chipsoars > wrote:
>
> > > Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76 or
> > > ETREX? *If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
> > > performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.
>
> > > thanks,
>
> > > Chip Fitzpatrick- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I'm familiar with the freeware PDA/Palm approaches. *The reason I'm
> asking is one of my soaring partners (and perhaps others now that COTS
> will be useful for badges in the US after October) does not want to
> buy or bother with a PDA.

Well if they want airspace displayed they will need to bother with
either a PDA or a portable aviation GPS or a ClearNav or similar.
Consumer GPS units don't know about airspace or have any practical way
to fake this.

And lets be clear about claims about COTS GPS and badges. NAC/SSA
approved GPS models will for position reporting for silver and gold
badges (but not diamonds, and not records). You will need a barograph
in conjunction with a COTS GPS to record altitude. Personally there is
no way I'd want to bother messing with a mechanical barograph - but I
know this may help some clubs out.

Darryl

[chipsoars]

On May 13, 1:01*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On May 13, 9:22*am, chipsoars > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 12:00*pm, vontresc > wrote:
>
> > > I don't know about adding airspace to a garmin unit, but I used Soar
> > > Pilot last year with my treo 650 and a bluetooth GPS. The advantage of
> > > such a system is that you can easily load turn points, and airspace.
> > > Additionally it is a pretty full featured Soaring computer, and best
> > > of all it's FREE! :-)
>
> > > If you don't have a palm there's always XCsoar (freeware as well) for
> > > the windows mobile family of PDAs
>
> > > Pete
>
> > > On May 13, 10:15*am, chipsoars > wrote:
>
> > > > Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76 or
> > > > ETREX? *If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
> > > > performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.
>
> > > > thanks,
>
> > > > Chip Fitzpatrick- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > I'm familiar with the freeware PDA/Palm approaches. *The reason I'm
> > asking is one of my soaring partners (and perhaps others now that COTS
> > will be useful for badges in the US after October) does not want to
> > buy or bother with a PDA.
>
> Well if they want airspace displayed they will need to bother with
> either a PDA or a portable aviation GPS or a ClearNav or similar.
> Consumer GPS units don't know about airspace or have any practical way
> to fake this.
>
> And lets be clear about claims about COTS GPS and badges. NAC/SSA
> approved GPS models will for position reporting for silver and gold
> badges (but not diamonds, and not records). You will need a barograph
> in conjunction with a COTS GPS to record altitude. Personally there is
> no way I'd want to bother messing with a mechanical barograph - but I
> know this may help some clubs out.
>
> Darryl- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, the baraograph requirement is PIA.

However, if a GPS unit can display a map with marine navigation
charts, railroads, roads and cities etc., why would it not be able
accommodate the data for an outline of Class B, C or D airspace?

[Peter Wyld[_2_]]

At 16:22 13 May 2009, chipsoars wrote:
>On May 13, 12:00=A0pm, vontresc wrote:
>> I don't know about adding airspace to a garmin unit, but I used Soar
>> Pilot last year with my treo 650 and a bluetooth GPS. The advantage of
>> such a system is that you can easily load turn points, and airspace.
>> Additionally it is a pretty full featured Soaring computer, and best
>> of all it's FREE! :-)
>>
>> If you don't have a palm there's always XCsoar (freeware as well)
for
>> the windows mobile family of PDAs
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> On May 13, 10:15=A0am, chipsoars wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76
or
>> > ETREX? =A0If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
>> > performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.
>>
>> > thanks,
>>
>> > Chip Fitzpatrick- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>I'm familiar with the freeware PDA/Palm approaches. The reason I'm
>asking is one of my soaring partners (and perhaps others now that COTS
>will be useful for badges in the US after October) does not want to
>buy or bother with a PDA.
>

You could try talking to Paul Crabb about Garmax (makes displayable
airspace, but won't warn you about it - for that you need an aviation
gps) contact via www.crabb.biz, or you could learn to use a chart.

[Darryl Ramm]

On May 13, 10:29*am, chipsoars > wrote:
> On May 13, 1:01*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 9:22*am, chipsoars > wrote:
>
> > > On May 13, 12:00*pm, vontresc > wrote:
>
> > > > I don't know about adding airspace to a garmin unit, but I used Soar
> > > > Pilot last year with my treo 650 and a bluetooth GPS. The advantage of
> > > > such a system is that you can easily load turn points, and airspace..
> > > > Additionally it is a pretty full featured Soaring computer, and best
> > > > of all it's FREE! :-)
>
> > > > If you don't have a palm there's always XCsoar (freeware as well) for
> > > > the windows mobile family of PDAs
>
> > > > Pete
>
> > > > On May 13, 10:15*am, chipsoars > wrote:
>
> > > > > Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76 or
> > > > > ETREX? *If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
> > > > > performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.
>
> > > > > thanks,
>
> > > > > Chip Fitzpatrick- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > I'm familiar with the freeware PDA/Palm approaches. *The reason I'm
> > > asking is one of my soaring partners (and perhaps others now that COTS
> > > will be useful for badges in the US after October) does not want to
> > > buy or bother with a PDA.
>
> > Well if they want airspace displayed they will need to bother with
> > either a PDA or a portable aviation GPS or a ClearNav or similar.
> > Consumer GPS units don't know about airspace or have any practical way
> > to fake this.
>
> > And lets be clear about claims about COTS GPS and badges. NAC/SSA
> > approved GPS models will for position reporting for silver and gold
> > badges (but not diamonds, and not records). You will need a barograph
> > in conjunction with a COTS GPS to record altitude. Personally there is
> > no way I'd want to bother messing with a mechanical barograph - but I
> > know this may help some clubs out.
>
> > Darryl- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Yes, the baraograph requirement is *PIA.
>
> However, if a GPS unit can display a map with marine navigation
> charts, railroads, roads and cities etc., why would it not be able
> accommodate the data for an outline of Class *B, C or D airspace?

Because railway lines don't float in space at different altitudes, and
don't define an interior space that has any properties/support
labeling for that space/will cause an alarm etc. If it's not an
aviation GPS with airspace support just give up now.

Garmin is not stupid, you want that feature, they want you to buy an
aviation GPS (I love my GPSMAP 496).

Darryl

[chipsoars]

On May 13, 1:30*pm, Peter Wyld > wrote:
> At 16:22 13 May 2009, chipsoars wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On May 13, 12:00=A0pm, vontresc *wrote:
> >> I don't know about adding airspace to a garmin unit, but I used Soar
> >> Pilot last year with my treo 650 and a bluetooth GPS. The advantage of
> >> such a system is that you can easily load turn points, and airspace.
> >> Additionally it is a pretty full featured Soaring computer, and best
> >> of all it's FREE! :-)
>
> >> If you don't have a palm there's always XCsoar (freeware as well)
> for
> >> the windows mobile family of PDAs
>
> >> Pete
>
> >> On May 13, 10:15=A0am, chipsoars *wrote:
>
> >> > Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76
> or
> >> > ETREX? =A0If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
> >> > performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.
>
> >> > thanks,
>
> >> > Chip Fitzpatrick- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >I'm familiar with the freeware PDA/Palm approaches. *The reason I'm
> >asking is one of my soaring partners (and perhaps others now that COTS
> >will be useful for badges in the US after October) does not want to
> >buy or bother with a PDA.
>
> You could try talking to Paul Crabb about Garmax (makes displayable
> airspace, but won't warn you about it - for that you need an aviation
> gps) contact viawww.crabb.biz, or you could learn to use a chart.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks, this at least demonstrates this can be accomplished although I
am looking for a product supporting the other side of the Pond.

I am confident that at some point in the last 20 years I learned to
open up a Sectional chart and look out the window. The intent is for
use as an aide for those who use these devices along with the chart
and the M1 Eyeball.

[chipsoars]

On May 13, 1:41*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On May 13, 10:29*am, chipsoars > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 1:01*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
> > > On May 13, 9:22*am, chipsoars > wrote:
>
> > > > On May 13, 12:00*pm, vontresc > wrote:
>
> > > > > I don't know about adding airspace to a garmin unit, but I used Soar
> > > > > Pilot last year with my treo 650 and a bluetooth GPS. The advantage of
> > > > > such a system is that you can easily load turn points, and airspace.
> > > > > Additionally it is a pretty full featured Soaring computer, and best
> > > > > of all it's FREE! :-)
>
> > > > > If you don't have a palm there's always XCsoar (freeware as well) for
> > > > > the windows mobile family of PDAs
>
> > > > > Pete
>
> > > > > On May 13, 10:15*am, chipsoars > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76 or
> > > > > > ETREX? *If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
> > > > > > performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.
>
> > > > > > thanks,
>
> > > > > > Chip Fitzpatrick- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > I'm familiar with the freeware PDA/Palm approaches. *The reason I'm
> > > > asking is one of my soaring partners (and perhaps others now that COTS
> > > > will be useful for badges in the US after October) does not want to
> > > > buy or bother with a PDA.
>
> > > Well if they want airspace displayed they will need to bother with
> > > either a PDA or a portable aviation GPS or a ClearNav or similar.
> > > Consumer GPS units don't know about airspace or have any practical way
> > > to fake this.
>
> > > And lets be clear about claims about COTS GPS and badges. NAC/SSA
> > > approved GPS models will for position reporting for silver and gold
> > > badges (but not diamonds, and not records). You will need a barograph
> > > in conjunction with a COTS GPS to record altitude. Personally there is
> > > no way I'd want to bother messing with a mechanical barograph - but I
> > > know this may help some clubs out.
>
> > > Darryl- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Yes, the baraograph requirement is *PIA.
>
> > However, if a GPS unit can display a map with marine navigation
> > charts, railroads, roads and cities etc., why would it not be able
> > accommodate the data for an outline of Class *B, C or D airspace?
>
> Because railway lines don't float in space at different altitudes, and
> don't define an interior space that has any properties/support
> labeling for that space/will cause an alarm etc. If it's not an
> aviation GPS with airspace support just give up now.
>
> Garmin is not stupid, you want that feature, they want you to buy an
> aviation GPS (I love my GPSMAP 496).
>
> Darryl- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I understand that, but don't think that I would try to underfly an
outer ring on Class C as an example, but it is nice to know where the
boundary is located. A simple graphical depiction of the space limits
similar to the ring on a chart would be adequate for the purpose. My
LX7000 doesn't appear to provide much more detail nor does my PDA
program. Can't say that I bother with the alarms.

Chip F.

[Edward]

At 15:15 13 May 2009, chipsoars wrote:
>Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76 or
>ETREX? If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
>performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.
>
>thanks,
>
>Chip Fitzpatrick
>
Have you tried one of these? -
http://www.img2gps.co.cc/
http://www.cgpsmapper.com/
http://web.abnormal.com/~avia_dbm/index.html

I'd be interested to know if they work with something as basic as an
eTrex.

Edward

[PCool]

Many pilots in Italy use Garmin 76S or 76CSX with custom airspace maps made
out of SUA with cgpsmapper.
I'm the one beyond the work. Also, all seeyou turnpoints and thousands of
ridges, valleys, mountain tops etc. were converted to transparent maps that
we can select.
I fly with XCSoar, but wouldn't take off for a long flight without my 76CSX.
Once fed with custom maps, PDA and PNAs are way below the 76 usability and
visibility, not to mention the autonomy (12hours on 2 AA batteries).

Maps for garmin are loadable on almost any garmin product, even the old
StreetPilot.
Creating maps is not trivial, and there are limitations in the cgpsmapper
software unless you pay for the cheapest shareware version which is worth
every penny.

An article on our national soaring magazine was published some time ago,
available here
http://hosting2.cwnet.it/~admin288/modules/dms/file_retrieve.php?function=view&obj_id=88
with some screenshots of what is possible to achieve with a cheap 76S.
The newest 76CSX is much faster and has got a beautiful sunreadable screen,
with the same power consumption of a 76S.

It's a pity that the only flight specific informations given by the 76 are
glide ratio to destination and current glide ratio (and relative variometric
values).

Paolo



"Edward" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> At 15:15 13 May 2009, chipsoars wrote:
>>Is it possible to load a SUA file on a COTS such as a Garmin Map76 or
>>ETREX? If so, is there a preferred format or procedure? I've
>>performed some searching on RAS and Google with no success.
>>
>>thanks,
>>
>>Chip Fitzpatrick
>>
> Have you tried one of these? -
> http://www.img2gps.co.cc/
> http://www.cgpsmapper.com/
> http://web.abnormal.com/~avia_dbm/index.html
>
> I'd be interested to know if they work with something as basic as an
> eTrex.
>
> Edward