Assembling an A-65 and A&P oversite/inspections?

[Michael Horowitz]

I'm planning on dissassembling my A-65 and sending the parts out for
inspection and repair/replacement.
I would really like to assemble the engine.
I understand an A&P needs to inspect as I go along.
Can anyone describe at what points I would need to bring the engine to
my A&P for his approval and what would he do? - Mike

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
...
> I'm planning on dissassembling my A-65 and sending the parts out for
> inspection and repair/replacement.
> I would really like to assemble the engine.
> I understand an A&P needs to inspect as I go along.
> Can anyone describe at what points I would need to bring the engine to
> my A&P for his approval and what would he do? - Mike

It all depends on the A&P.

He/she might want you to do the whole thing in his/her shop while he/she
stands over your shoulder. He/she may just want to look in on things and
ask questions now and again. Or the A&P might just laugh and tell you no
effing way.

Remember, it's the A&P's signature in the book - not yours.

The better thing to do is start with small stuff until the A&P knows your
work and has some confidance in it.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Dale Scroggins[_2_]]

"Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
...
> I'm planning on dissassembling my A-65 and sending the parts out for
> inspection and repair/replacement.
> I would really like to assemble the engine.
> I understand an A&P needs to inspect as I go along.
> Can anyone describe at what points I would need to bring the engine to
> my A&P for his approval and what would he do? - Mike

Since this is a usenet group for those building their own aircraft, I assume
the engine is going to be installed on a homebuilt. Why do you need an A&P
at all?

On the off-chance that you may have posted to the wrong forum, and the
engine will be installed on an airplane with a standard airworthiness
certificate, then both you and the A&P need to read FAR 43.

My advice to the A&P, regardless of the kind of aircraft the engine is going
on, is to demand signed releases of liability from your prospective widow,
orphans, or other potentially bereaved relatives, or to charge you enough
for his services to make it worth the risk. Tell him this advice comes from
a retired lawyer with personal knowledge of similar situations.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Dale Scroggins" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm planning on dissassembling my A-65 and sending the parts out for
>> inspection and repair/replacement.
>> I would really like to assemble the engine.
>> I understand an A&P needs to inspect as I go along.
>> Can anyone describe at what points I would need to bring the engine to
>> my A&P for his approval and what would he do? - Mike
>
> Since this is a usenet group for those building their own aircraft, I
> assume the engine is going to be installed on a homebuilt. Why do you
> need an A&P at all?

OOPS. I forgot I was in homebuilt...

You can do anything you want if you are building the airplane. If you
bought it used and need an A&P to sign off on a annual conditional
inspection, well, good luck.

> My advice to the A&P, regardless of the kind of aircraft the engine is
> going on, is to demand signed releases of liability from your prospective
> widow, orphans, or other potentially bereaved relatives, or to charge you
> enough for his services to make it worth the risk. Tell him this advice
> comes from a retired lawyer with personal knowledge of similar
> situations.

That sort of thing is really worth more than the paper it is printed on?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Dale Scroggins[_2_]]

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk @See My Sig.com> wrote in message
...
> "Dale Scroggins" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I'm planning on dissassembling my A-65 and sending the parts out for
>>> inspection and repair/replacement.
>>> I would really like to assemble the engine.
>>> I understand an A&P needs to inspect as I go along.
>>> Can anyone describe at what points I would need to bring the engine to
>>> my A&P for his approval and what would he do? - Mike
>>
>> Since this is a usenet group for those building their own aircraft, I
>> assume the engine is going to be installed on a homebuilt. Why do you
>> need an A&P at all?
>
> OOPS. I forgot I was in homebuilt...
>
> You can do anything you want if you are building the airplane. If you
> bought it used and need an A&P to sign off on a annual conditional
> inspection, well, good luck.
>
>> My advice to the A&P, regardless of the kind of aircraft the engine is
>> going on, is to demand signed releases of liability from your prospective
>> widow, orphans, or other potentially bereaved relatives, or to charge you
>> enough for his services to make it worth the risk. Tell him this advice
>> comes from a retired lawyer with personal knowledge of similar
>> situations.
>
> That sort of thing is really worth more than the paper it is printed on?

Releases are worthless if signed by the person likely to be flying the
plane; his release, if he signs one, doesn't bind his widow or other heirs.
The OP isn't likely to get releases from everyone who could bring claims
against the A&P. I offered the advice knowing that, to give both the OP and
A&P pause.

If the A&P makes a logbook entry for the work of a non-certificated owner,
he will often find that his entry is the last entry the plaintiff's lawyer
will find in the book. The non-certificated owner will continue to do
maintenance, modification, tweaking, and experimenting on the engine, but
will not make a logbook entry. The next entry, if there is one, will be the
next annual or condition inspection. Up until then, the A&P is on the hook
for the reassembly of the engine and everything the owner does afterwards.

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Fri, 15 May 2009 21:50:57 -0500, "Dale Scroggins"
> wrote:

>
>"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk @See My Sig.com> wrote in message
...
>> "Dale Scroggins" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I'm planning on dissassembling my A-65 and sending the parts out for
>>>> inspection and repair/replacement.
>>>> I would really like to assemble the engine.
>>>> I understand an A&P needs to inspect as I go along.
>>>> Can anyone describe at what points I would need to bring the engine to
>>>> my A&P for his approval and what would he do? - Mike
>>>
>>> Since this is a usenet group for those building their own aircraft, I
>>> assume the engine is going to be installed on a homebuilt. Why do you
>>> need an A&P at all?
>>
>> OOPS. I forgot I was in homebuilt...
>>
>> You can do anything you want if you are building the airplane. If you
>> bought it used and need an A&P to sign off on a annual conditional
>> inspection, well, good luck.
>>
>>> My advice to the A&P, regardless of the kind of aircraft the engine is
>>> going on, is to demand signed releases of liability from your prospective
>>> widow, orphans, or other potentially bereaved relatives, or to charge you
>>> enough for his services to make it worth the risk. Tell him this advice
>>> comes from a retired lawyer with personal knowledge of similar
>>> situations.
>>
>> That sort of thing is really worth more than the paper it is printed on?
>
>Releases are worthless if signed by the person likely to be flying the
>plane; his release, if he signs one, doesn't bind his widow or other heirs.
>The OP isn't likely to get releases from everyone who could bring claims
>against the A&P. I offered the advice knowing that, to give both the OP and
>A&P pause.
>
>If the A&P makes a logbook entry for the work of a non-certificated owner,
>he will often find that his entry is the last entry the plaintiff's lawyer
>will find in the book. The non-certificated owner will continue to do
>maintenance, modification, tweaking, and experimenting on the engine, but
>will not make a logbook entry. The next entry, if there is one, will be the
>next annual or condition inspection. Up until then, the A&P is on the hook
>for the reassembly of the engine and everything the owner does afterwards.

he shouldnt be.
the A&P signed off the work at the point he signed it off. if the
owner does subsequent work then that work is not covered by the LAME's
signoff which predated the owners work. especially if the A&P's
signoff has expired.
presumably the LAME's (A&P's) signoff is against an entry for the
engine hours at that point. a simple check of the engine instruments
will show that operations continued after the signoff expired.

I'm an owner who performes his own maintenance in a regulatory system
that doesnt allow an owner to maintain his own personal aircraft.
we have yet to achieve what the canadians have by ignoring the law and
getting on with maintaining and flying personal aircraft but we are
working toward the canadian outcome. 4 years and counting.

btw why do we need signoffs at all? we drive millions of cars world
wide without a single signoff. dont you think the aviation system just
a little bit of an abberation?

Stealth Pilot

[Michael Horowitz]

On Fri, 15 May 2009 21:42:35 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk @See My Sig.com> wrote:

>"Michael Horowitz" > wrote in message
...
>> I'm planning on dissassembling my A-65 and sending the parts out for
>> inspection and repair/replacement.
>> I would really like to assemble the engine.
>> I understand an A&P needs to inspect as I go along.
>> Can anyone describe at what points I would need to bring the engine to
>> my A&P for his approval and what would he do? - Mike
>
>It all depends on the A&P.
>
>He/she might want you to do the whole thing in his/her shop while he/she
>stands over your shoulder. He/she may just want to look in on things and
>ask questions now and again. Or the A&P might just laugh and tell you no
>effing way.
>
>Remember, it's the A&P's signature in the book - not yours.
>
>The better thing to do is start with small stuff until the A&P knows your
>work and has some confidance in it.

I hear you. It's almost an impossible question. I'll have to talk with
my A&P; Thanks, Mike